Gabrielle Union on Embracing Vulnerability, Moving Through Creative Blocks, and No Longer Going 50/50

Summary

Balanced Black Girl Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Gabrielle Union on Embracing Vulnerability, Moving Through Creative Blocks, and No Longer Going 50/50
Release Date: March 4, 2025
Guest: Gabrielle Union, Actor, Producer, Author

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Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Balanced Black Girl, host Balanced Black Girl engages in a profound conversation with acclaimed actress, producer, and author Gabrielle Union. The discussion spans a variety of topics including reading habits, the complexities of creative processes, embracing vulnerability, and personal growth. This episode is filled with insightful anecdotes, practical advice, and heartfelt reflections that resonate with listeners striving for personal development and well-being.

Reading Habits and Preferences

The conversation begins with a deep dive into Gabrielle’s relationship with reading. Gabrielle shares her passion for historical fiction, highlighting her love for learning and history:

Gabrielle Union [02:13]: "Historical fiction. Yes, I'm a student of history. I love learning... I’m just a really big history buff. And I love fiction. And if you can combine both of my loves, get out of here."

She emphasizes her preference for physical books, valuing the tactile experience of reading:

Gabrielle Union [02:59]: "I like a physical book. I love going to bookstores. I love going to libraries... I'm a book aficionado."

Gabrielle also touches on her selective use of audiobooks, particularly favoring autobiographies narrated by the authors themselves to maintain the authenticity of their voices.

Book Adaptations and Creative Processes

Transitioning to the topic of adapting books into movies, Gabrielle discusses the challenges and emotional nuances involved:

Gabrielle Union [07:34]: "If I kind of look like this as I'm reading it, I'm like, someone else is going to probably feel the same way... So please read the book first, then watch the movie, and I hope you'll appreciate them each as individual entities."

She reflects on the adaptation of her own work, The Perfect Find:

Gabrielle Union [08:38]: "They were like, absolutely not. Which is why I'm like, read the book. You might have a completely different experience and find different things to love about the characters."

Gabrielle candidly shares her struggles with retaining creative control during adaptations, expressing the difficulty of preserving the original essence of a story:

Gabrielle Union [12:43]: "I don't trust anybody. You’re not turning my life into, you know, you're not going to note my real life to death. No."

Embracing Creativity and Overcoming Creative Blocks

When discussing creativity, Gabrielle describes it as a "double-edged sword." She revels in her creative freedom but also laments the constraints imposed when collaborating with others:

Gabrielle Union [18:38]: "When you're on the other side as well, and you have to give notes and you have to wrangle in someone's imagination, it feels stifling to be on that side of the creative process where it feels like the opposite, the antithesis of creativity."

Gabrielle emphasizes the therapeutic aspect of creativity, sharing personal stories about her daughter's artwork and the challenges of interpreting creative expressions:

Gabrielle Union [20:12]: "It's the dream killer part. You know, once it's up for people's interpretation or their opinion or whatever their thoughts may be, you're absorbing that as well, and it kind of can kill the mood, can kill the vision, you know?"

Vulnerability and Personal Growth

A significant portion of the episode delves into Gabrielle’s journey towards embracing vulnerability. She opens up about her battle with PTSD following a traumatic experience:

Gabrielle Union [48:32]: "I have the proper diagnoses. It was going to take me longer to end up where I still am... I probably still would have had to use a surrogate, but I could have started the process earlier."

Gabrielle discusses the importance of radical transparency and being genuine:

Gabrielle Union [25:02]: "For me, being logical is being radically transparent. I... I'm not taking this baby out."

She shares her struggles with dependency and control, highlighting her efforts to lean into vulnerability within her marriage:

Gabrielle Union [48:34]: "These are baby steps... But it feels good to relinquish some of the things that I really thought kept me safe."

Gabrielle underscores the necessity of self-compassion and growth, advising listeners to celebrate every win, no matter how small:

Gabrielle Union [42:04]: "Celebrate your little wins, big wins, medium sized wins. Now, I look back, like I'm looking back at my younger self... But everything isn’t how it turned out."

Personal Reflections on Judgement and Self-Acceptance

The discussion further explores themes of judgment and self-acceptance. Gabrielle reflects on her past judgmental tendencies and her journey towards being less critical of herself and others:

Gabrielle Union [36:05]: "I'm not letting it out in the world. But absolutely, you know, it's life, but it's not for me."

She emphasizes the importance of grace and understanding, both in giving it to others and receiving it:

Gabrielle Union [35:57]: "Give grace. Receive grace. That's it. That's a tough one, but, yeah, it is hard."

New Project: Riff Raff

Towards the end of the episode, Gabrielle introduces her new movie, Riff Raff, sharing her excitement and the diverse cast involved:

Gabrielle Union [58:12]: "I was the third person to sign on, so it was Jennifer Coolidge, who's the star, and also one of the executive producers, Ed Harris, who plays my love interest in this."

She discusses the film's complex character dynamics and blending of genres, likening it to a mix of a crime thriller and family comedy:

Gabrielle Union [60:14]: "It's dark, darkly funny, and it's like a crime thriller, family comedy dramedy. And it's also like a thrill ride. I love it."

Gabrielle expresses admiration for her co-star Ed Harris, highlighting his charisma and on-screen presence:

Gabrielle Union [61:07]: "I get to make out with Ed Harris. Which was unlikely."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with heartfelt remarks from both the host and Gabrielle, emphasizing the importance of vulnerability, personal growth, and embracing one’s authentic self. Gabrielle’s candidness provides listeners with invaluable insights into navigating personal and creative challenges, making this episode a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration and practical advice on well-being and self-improvement.

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Notable Quotes:

• Gabrielle Union [02:13]: "Historical fiction. Yes, I'm a student of history... I’m just a really big history buff."
• Gabrielle Union [07:34]: "Please read the book first, then watch the movie, and I hope you'll appreciate them each as individual entities."
• Gabrielle Union [25:02]: "For me, being logical is being radically transparent... I am a control freak."
• Gabrielle Union [48:32]: "I have the proper diagnoses... I could have started the process earlier."
• Gabrielle Union [58:12]: "It's dark, darkly funny, and it's like a crime thriller, family comedy dramedy."

This episode offers a rich tapestry of discussions that encourage listeners to embrace their true selves, navigate creative and personal challenges, and find strength in vulnerability. Gabrielle Union’s openness and wisdom make this episode a valuable resource for those on a journey of self-discovery and personal growth.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Host]

Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode. So I have to say this week is really exciting because we have an amazing guest joining us. I am sitting down with the actor, producer, author extraordinaire, Ms. Gabrielle Union, and we talk about so, so much in this episode. We learn about her as a reader, we talk about the power of vulnerability, advice that she would give her 30 something self, and so much more. This episode is packed with gems with nuggets. Get your notebook out, get your notes app out. It is such a healing conversation and is one that I know I will be referring to often. So let's get into today's conversation with Gabrielle. Gabrielle, welcome to the podcast.

[Gabrielle Union]

Thank you for having me.

[Host]

I'm so excited to have you. So I don't think you know this, but I'm about to tell you. It's a really cool full circle moment to have you on the show because two years ago I was one of your Women Crush Wednesday posts. You shouted me out and the podcast and it just helped so many people find this community. So to have you here is so exciting and full circle.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's so funny because I was like, I feel like I know her somewhere, but I didn't want to be a weirdo and go in.

[Host]

But yes, not yet at all.

[Gabrielle Union]

No, you're doing the. Yeah, I'm a fan.

[Host]

Oh my God, I'm a fan.

[Gabrielle Union]

I'm a fan. I'm a fan.

[Host]

Thank you. Well, I'm excited to get to thank you in person. I'm sure I like thanked you in the comments or whatever, but to get to thank you in person is even more special.

[Gabrielle Union]

No, it's my pleasure. That's what the WCWs are all about. And hopefully more people can enjoy the work that you're doing, which is really digging in in ways that we don't often get to explore.

[Host]

Yeah, I really appreciate that. So I would actually love to kick things off by talking about reading. Yes, I'm a big reader. I know you're a big reader. Yes, we know you as a writer, but I want to get to know you as a reader. What your reading style is. What is your favorite genre to dig into?

[Gabrielle Union]

Historical fiction. Yes, I'm a student of history. I love learning. It's. I would say it's a problem, but I'm a dork in that way. I just, if you ever see me just on my phone, I'm just googling random facts, ancient civilizations, it doesn't matter. I'm just a really big history buff. And I love fiction. And if you can combine both of my loves, get out of here. Like, I'm just happy. I'm just happy in a corner somewhere reading.

[Host]

Yeah, I agree. I also love historical fiction because it is that element of getting to learn, but wrapping it in a story where it's fun to follow and it just is so fun to read.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yes.

[Host]

What about format?

[Podcast Announcer]

Are you an audio person?

[Host]

Do you love a physical book? Do you take your Kindle with you everywhere?

[Gabrielle Union]

I like a physical book. I love going to bookstores. I love going to libraries. I used. I was a librarian assistant in high school, so I just have such a deep respect for actual books. I like the smell of the pages. I like to take care of the spines. Like, I'm book aficionado. Certain books. I like an audiobook. So I listen to Michael McDonald's biography, Autobiography. I listen to Mariah Carey's autobiography. I listen to Britney Spears autobiography. So those kinds I kind of want to hear. Especially when they do their own. It's really exciting to hear it rather than me putting a tone on their voice that probably doesn't exist.

[Host]

So.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. But otherwise, no, I want the book. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

I feel similarly. I do like listening to memoirs that are read by the author, kind of like you said, hearing their voice. But there is also something about either having a book. I do love a Kindle, too, but having that be the sole thing that I'm focused on. Because I think so much of listening to audio is about multitasking. But I kind of want a single task. I want to only focus on the book I'm reading.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yes. Yes. Thank you for that. Because everyone, it's like, oh, I'm being efficient. I'm like, no, it kind of feels jittery. You know what I mean? It's like you're. I don't know. It feels also kind, in a sense, a little disrespectful. I don't know. When I'm writing, I want you to focus on what I've written. And when I'm reading, it's like, it's just the respect for the author and the words. I don't know. Like, I appreciate the syntax, like, you know, the extra things that people put into their work that, I don't know, can change a phrase, can change the whole meaning. And I find that when I am multitasking. Cause, like, do I work out and listen to Michael McDonald? Yes, I do. And I absolutely miss stories. Absolutely. So I had to go back and, you know, re. Listen So I don't know. I'm one of those people. I'm a purist, I guess, in that way. I also just learned what Apple Pay was in the last year, so I'm also old, so I don't know. It could be a combination of both. You know what I also recently reread was Atonement.

[Host]

Oh, I've never read that. Do I need to read it?

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, if you're a fan of historical fiction. Yeah. Yeah, I think you'd like.

[Host]

Okay. Amazing. Yeah, I'll add that to the list. Was there a particular book that made you a reader?

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, my mom read to us. My parents actually both read to us from as early as I can remember. The book that I love to then read on my own, you know, as my parents are reading, but I'm really reading is Marvin K. Mooney, Will youl Please Go now, which is like a Dr. Seuss book, and that was my favorite. Yeah. But then probably as I got older, where I was like, I wanted big, you know, chapter books and all of that. Judy Blume. All of the Judy Blume books. And then Coming of Age in Mississippi by Ann Moody, which has really kind of got me more into history and historical biographies and kind of went from there.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

And I think I was 11 or so. Yeah. With Anne Moody.

[Host]

I love that. I found that there have been a couple of different time periods where I come into my own more as a reader. Like, my kind of moment when I felt conscious of, like, selecting books. I remember reading the Harry Potter series as a kid and that being the first, like, world building, really getting into. And then kind of went through high school, college, and that kind of ruins reading for you a little bit. And then having to come back to it as an adult, at least for me it did.

[Gabrielle Union]

Well, tell me more.

[Host]

Burned me out.

[Gabrielle Union]

Tell me more.

[Host]

Yeah, I mean, I went to a liberal arts school, so it was a lot of reading, a lot of writing. So by the time I got out of school, I was like, I need a break. I need a break. And then a few years ago, I got back into reading because I read Seven Days in June by Tia Williams, and then. And I know you've worked with Tia, and that just, like, reignited my love for reading. And I've been, like, devouring books ever since.

[Gabrielle Union]

Oh, I love that. I love that. Yes, yes, you have, like, I know she's got more in the. More in the tank.

[Podcast Announcer]

She does.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. Yeah. I missed out on optioning that one. Yeah. We had the perfect fine idea.

[Host]

Yes.

[Gabrielle Union]

But yeah, we missed the. I think Will Packer got. Got that one. But yeah. Yeah, she's awesome. She is. She makes you want to read. She makes you want to lean in. She makes you want to jump into the characters clothes and their world and their friend groups. And that's kind of. I don't know. I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

It's like that art of storytelling that really grabs you in even mentioning the perfect find, which you produced and starred in and you also produced. The idea of you, like, turning books into movies feels like a really beautiful intersection of your work. How do you decide what stories you want to tell and be a part of?

[Gabrielle Union]

If I kind of look like this as I'm reading it, I'm like, someone else is going to probably feel the same way. I was lucky that the Idea of you was written by my girlfriend, Robin Lee. And I saw all the different incarnations of the book. So by the finished product, it was perfect. I mean, and the book and the movie are different and I always have to say that. So you can please read the book first, then watch the movie, and I. Hopefully you'll be able to appreciate them each as, you know, individual entities. But I love how she writes. I love how she thinks. I love the world that she builds. And we all fell in love. And Dee was like, oh, what's that? Like, I want to read that. My husband and he read it and his take was very different than my take. I was like, interesting. And from there I was like, oh, this is a movie if different people can walk away. Because I thought there was one way to look at this book, but I realized if men and women are looking at this differently, age groups are looking at this differently. This is a movie, and it's one of the biggest movies in the history of Amazon. So it worked out.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Written by a black woman.

[Podcast Announcer]

We love it. We love it.

[Gabrielle Union]

Produced by a black woman.

[Host]

Yeah. And I think my favorite thing when I'm watching movies that are adapted from books and I've read the book is I do like to judge them separately or I like to judge them as individuals. It's like they're telling the same story in a different way. But to not necessarily compare or even if there are variations, it's like, okay, that's what makes sense for this version of the story. And then I can also still enjoy the other version.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. I mean, because as you're reading, you're basically casting it because you have an idea of what these people look like, and it's a very personal thing. You know? Cause it's coming from your imagination. And so when you see it on screen, you're like, that's not what they look like. You know, it's a little. It's a little tough. Or the parts of the book that really resonated with you. If you leave that out of the film adaptation, it's going to be very personal. It feels like you're cutting off someone's arm. I remember reading the Perfect Find and being obsessed with the ending. But when it was time to adapt, they were like, oh, absolutely not. Absolutely not. They will hate her. And I was like, so I don't need. Like, I'm a different person. Like, you know, hopefully they see this as acting. And this is. This is the. My favorite part of the book is that it's not typical and it's not cookie cutter. And they were like, absolutely not. Which is why I'm like, read the book. You might have a completely different experience and find different things to love about the characters.

[Host]

I love that you called that out because I also loved the ending of the book. And then when I watched the movie, I was like, oh, that's different. That's way different.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. We kept trying to compromise. And I'm like, these aren't compromises. It's not what I want. And they were very. You know, people get very. The studio got very worried about likability and making sure they're like. Because two of our male producers were. Had just had babies, and they couldn't imagine a world. I don't. I feel like I'm spoiling this, but it's been out for many years. They couldn't imagine a woman not sharing that she's had a child with a man. And I was like, are you not on TikTok? Because there's so many of these stories. But that, you know, it was a choice. It was a choice that the character made. And it was, in some instances, depending on how you look at it, could be looked at as selfless to not force someone into parenthood. That has said repeatedly they don't want that. I don't know. There's a lot of different takes. But I love the ending as Tia wrote it. But they were absolutely no way in hell we're gonna give me that ending in our movie.

[Host]

That is super interesting. Cause I know when I read it, my perspective was like, this is the best possible outcome because both of those characters kind of got what they wanted.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yes. You know, that's a happy ending. It's just maybe not the easiest to explain. To everyone.

[Host]

Yeah, But. But it was really complex and nuanced and messy, and that's life.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's not. There's not a bow. And not every man is gonna be great, like, about that, and every woman's gonna be great about that, and that's what I liked. Yeah. But they're like, not for you, girl.

[Host]

Not on tv.

[Gabrielle Union]

We need these people to love you. I think Gab is good. Like, maybe the character might have the challenge, but, you know. But it's. You know, those are when you get noted to death. I always say, like, when we're working with different writers and creatives. My goal is that you can still recognize your work at the end of this process. And there's certain things that I'm not gonna have any control over. I will do my best. I will fight every fight, but I'm not gonna win them all. And it's not a dictatorship. So I. Either you want to go on this ride and know I'm gonna fight, but I. I'm telling you now, I'm losing some things. And most people are like, yes, I love it. And then there's certain things where people are like, I hate this process. I hate it. And it breaks your heart, and it. You know. But again, there's only so many things that you can do. And as many times as you warn folks, it's jarring because it's like somebody dissecting your baby.

[Podcast Announcer]

Right.

[Gabrielle Union]

And handing you back parts, and you're supposed to love it. Yeah. I'm not taking this baby out, like. And it's. It's hard, and it's. It's. It's a hard process, which is why I have not adapted any of my own books.

[Host]

Makes sense.

[Gabrielle Union]

I don't trust anybody.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

You're not. You're not turning my life into, you know, you're not going to note my real life to death. No.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Hell, no.

[Host]

Yeah. I would also imagine that that can make the creative process challenging or can hinder the creative process in a lot of ways.

[Gabrielle Union]

It can. It can, because it can make the adaptation take a lot longer, and there's never gonna be a right answer. You know, you bring in all the, you know, the best writers that you think are right for the job. And, you know, it's a challenge between the author of the book and the writer who's doing the adaptation because it feels like you're inviting someone in to insult you. And something that is so near and dear and precious to you. Every And. But. Or the. Is precious is there for a Reason. And here comes this person that's like. I mean, it's. It's okay, but like, my script is gonna be like, better. And that's what it feels like. Whether that's real or imagined, it's what it feels like. And watching people get their heart broken sucks. And I saw it too many times. I was like, I'm good. Nobody is adapting this unless I decide to do it myself. But it's hard. It's very, very hard. And I think for the audience that loves those characters and loves the story, it's hard. It's hard to truly embrace the new thing. You know, we got lucky. Cause Annie Hathaway was, you know, she's so beloved. And Nicholas, like, we kind of very much lucked out. But it was. There were very heartbreaking conversations with Robyn that they're like, can you have this? I'm like, there are 87 producers on this, but yep, I will. And it's hard. It's hard to deliver. Not great news or news that they don't want to hear. Yeah, that's very, very hard.

[Host]

Right.

[Gabrielle Union]

Especially when you love Closest and you also love what they wrote. But it's not a dictatorship, unfortunately. And once you agree and there's a contract sitting somewhere that they can trot out, it kind of is what it is. But people do it day in and day out. They're like, it's not going to happen to me. And I'm like, it's going to happen. It's going to happen. Yeah. There's going to be something that makes you cry, that breaks your heart. And I wish I could stop every bullet and every arrow, but it's just not realistic. Yeah.

[Host]

Not how it works at this time.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Host]

I'm curious about your relationship to creativity. Have you found yourself becoming more creative over time or embracing creativity or finding more freedom in creativity as you've moved through your career?

[Gabrielle Union]

I find creativity to be a double edged sword as I've gotten older and I've traveled the world, and I have. I'm looking at the world through a six year old's eyes and, you know, Zaya's eyes. And I see things I've never seen before. Colors look even different. How I would describe things. It's just very, very different. And so as I'm pouring all of that into the creative process, it feels like, oh, the world is my oyster. I can literally create any world. I can create anything I want to create. But when you're on the other side as well, and you have to give notes and you have to wrangle in someone's imagination, it feels stifling to be on that side of the creative process where it feels like the opposite, the antithesis of creativity. You feel like a dream killer all at once. Yeah. So do I love to create? Absolutely. Do I like the rest of the creative process where you hand it off to someone else? Absolutely not. So there's a lot of things I write just for me or my group chat. I don't know, a lot of ideas that I just share with my friends that I just like to keep ideas, you know, because I know you release it into the. Into Hollywood or into the world, it becomes something else that you lose control over. And I'm a control freak. So there you go.

[Host]

That makes a lot of sense, though. And I think as a maybe former overachiever, I'm beginning to understand the beauty of sometimes creating things just to create. Not even to have them be consistent or measured or judged, but just to do it. Because being creative can be therapeutic. And also not even worrying about it being good, which is so hard.

[Gabrielle Union]

And good to who, right? If you made it, it's good to you. Clearly, it came out of your body. It came out of your imagination. You know, Kav loves to paint. Some of her stuff is dark, right? I'm like, why is mommy in a wheelchair? She said, because I would love you. You know, wheelchair or. And then she turns it over and I'm not. I. I can walk now. And she was like, I love you just the same. On Valentine's Day, Dee had set us up with these, like, you know, easels and our paints. And we were, you know, I was being very literal about, like, this beautiful rainbow heart that had this, like, gold surrounding it. And I'm looking over and I'm like, what in the Basquiat is. It's happening right now. And there were layers. I was like, is this mixed media? And she had. It was like black in some Areas and, like, kind of yellowy gold, but underneath it was this red heart that kind of looked like it was bleeding. And I'm like, what is happening in the playground? Yeah. Like, what is going on? The way she described was so different, but she. She put it up in our house. So everybody who walked in assumed that the dark heart was mine and, you know, the rainbow, you know, moon, stars, rainbow, you know, heart was hers. But. And then as she kept having to explain it as different people were coming in, it was like, I didn't do this for you. Like, it makes sense to me. And I was like, should have kept it to ourselves, you know, like, should have put it outside to drive. But that's kind of the. The dream killer part. You know, once it's up for people's interpretation or their opinion or whatever their thoughts may be, you're absorbing that as well, and it kind of can kill the mood, can kill the vision, you know?

[Host]

Yeah, it. I feel like a lot gets watered down when we try to make people get it, that some stuff is just.

[Podcast Announcer]

Not for everybody to get.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's not for everybody. Or just, you know, if I'm trying to make something that is bliggity, like, this is fubu, top down. And I have to explain. The deeper we lean into specificity, the more universal it is. And they're like. And I'm like, I'm watching TV all the time, Googling. I'm not lost, per se. Like, I might not know every single thing, but it makes me want to learn more about the characters and tune in next week and, you know, really dive deeper because I find them interesting. Like, their specific slice of life. So fascinating because it's nothing I've ever seen before. And it doesn't. It didn't lose me as a fan or as a watcher. It made me sometimes watch it twice, which is, you know, in this streaming world, great. But sometimes when it comes to our art and our creative. Our creative process, it's well, will everyone get it? Like, you don't really ask those questions of anyone else. I think if they don't get it, they can Google just like I did. And I think the more we lean into the specificity of who we are or who these characters are and where they live and all of it, it's so much more interesting. And it's been true. Haven't been wrong yet.

[Host]

Yeah, absolutely. And encouraging people to have a sense of curiosity, which I think is really valuable, but not encouraged as much as maybe it could be. I'm trying to Be really nice with how I say that.

[Gabrielle Union]

That's the kindest way I've heard it said. Yeah. Like, they want to know themselves, but they don't want to know anyone else. And those people, the collective, they. It's like diversity in theory, you know? Like, you ever walk into, like, a large office and you're like, oh, it's the pairs theory, where as long as I got a pair of blacks and I got a pair of Asians and I got a pair of Latinos, and, oh, those are our two K's, like, they feel like inner work here is done, except there's a thousand people, and those two black girls are definitely gonna get mistaken for each other. But that's, for some people, representation and a seat at the table. I'm like, that is a seat at a shitty table that you leave that table, you have shit on your hands. Like, I don't wanna be. I don't even wanna be in this office, much less have a seat at that table. But there's this notion that I don't really need to know about them. They need to know about us, because we are the people that make the decisions. And when you try to challenge someone, it's like, no. It makes the story deeper and richer and so much more nuanced and complex and interesting. And they're like, well, we don't want that from y'all. It's like, okay, lean into specificity. Yeah. You know what I mean? And magically, guess what ends up on air. The specificity. That makes it a lot more interesting, you know? Not every note should be taken.

[Host]

Yeah. Ooh, that's a good question.

[Gabrielle Union]

Even when it comes for me.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Unless you're my child.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Especially if you're my kid. Yeah.

[Host]

Not every note should be taken. I think that's a big. That's a big takeaway for me. How do you decipher what notes should be taken versus what shouldn't?

[Gabrielle Union]

I'm a very eerily logical, practical, reasonable person. If the note is illogical, impractical, unreasonable, I'm not taking it. I'm not taking it. Like, we're gonna. We're brawl. And I want you to concede that it was a stupid note. Like, I need you to. I need you to take it. Take it. But for the most part, I don't work with too many people that are just nutty when it comes to notes or who aren't receptive to the feedback to that note. Most people are like, word. I get it. Okay. Yep, yep, yep. Okay. Got it. Got it. But some people, like, they want to dig their heels in and I'm like, make it make sense. Make it make sense. And they can't. I'm like, that's all I'm asking. Like, I'm not asking for the moon, the stars and rainbow. Just make it make sense. And if you're going to come in here and you feel like I. My voice needs to be heard. That's also another note. Everybody don't need to talk. Like, you really don't. They know you're here. Like your check's clearing. Like, you don't have to chime in just to make. I don't know what it is, I guess, to feel like you're busy and actively engaged, but you could also just not say nothing. Like that is an option.

[Host]

That's how I feel about the Internet. Not everybody needs to talk.

[Gabrielle Union]

If I don't like something, I. Okay, I'm scrolling down to take the time to tell you how much I don't like. Sir, ma'am. What am I. I've lost the plot. I don't care.

[Host]

Most definitely, I don't care.

[Gabrielle Union]

Next. For sure.

[Host]

Yeah, I want to come back to what you said because you just described yourself as, like, a very logical person. Yes. Do you find yourself having to balance that out a little bit with some of the. Either having a sense of, like, wonder. I don't know if that's the right word, or if vulnerability is the right word, but also, like, letting in some room for the squishy stuff.

[Gabrielle Union]

For me, being logical is being radically transparent. Like, I don't. I am terrible at remembering lies. And at this. At this big age of mine, I don't care what the feedback is. I'm going to be me a billion percent of the time. And that's all you can ask. That's all I ask of someone. Just please come honest. Like, I don't want to, like, figure out later that you aren't who you presented yourself to be. And all I ask, decent, reasonable, you know, like, reasonable, like nothing. I don't need big personalities or silent. Like, it. Be reasonable. And whoever you are, be that. So it's. There's some kind of consistency in what we can all expect. But I don't care. But for me, it was freedom to not hold secrets and to be my full self, no matter what room I walk into. And it's paid off for me every time. Yeah, it didn't feel like it would. It felt like it would be an anchor around my ankle. But once I got over that fear, I was like, oh, should have done this years ago. What the hell was I doing?

[Host]

Was there a moment that helped you release that fear of being your full self?

[Gabrielle Union]

Well, you're being judged anyway. Yeah. You're being judged for whatever lies or whatever thing you're concealing or, you know, people can sense your energy, that is. Yeah. You're like, oh, I'm getting murdered right now. Like, I'm getting murdered in the comments. But if I'm getting murdered, I'd rather you either I'm going to sink or swim as me and I'm free. And I don't look at the comments anymore for the better. You know what I mean? Like, usually the first few are people that, you know, it follows. So I keep scrolling. I'm going to get exactly what I'm looking for, which is something that I can't get out of my head, you know, so disappoint. Yeah. And then now I got to look up your grandma, and now I got to go down your, you know, to see, like, is this someone I should even be listening to? It never is. It's never any. It's not like Oprah's in the comments. Like, you know, it's never anybody whose life you may want to have or even be open to their criticism or suggestions.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true. I've also found that anybody who I either look up to would want to emulate or learn from usually isn't delivering a message in that way anyway. And the people who are are usually the people who I wouldn't want to trade places with if push came to shove. And that's been a good lesson as I get older, to learn.

[Podcast Announcer]

Well.

[Gabrielle Union]

And a lot of people that you look up to, when you finally meet them, you're like, okay, thank you for getting me to this point. Yes. And now I will find someone. I will find a new North Star.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, and I think people are, especially people you haven't met yet. They're good for certain seasons of your life. And then as you grow and expand and your worldview changes, as it should, constantly, you find different people. And not everybody needs to be put in the suitcase.

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Host]

I mean, no pun intended because I know we're talking about the book slash, maybe the idea of you, but I think sometimes we also create an idea of people and who we think they are. And then when they are not that version that we created in our heads, we get really disappointed and that's a way of disappointing ourselves.

[Gabrielle Union]

It like, but why? Yeah, like there's people I put on pedestals that they could do no wrong. Like, because they were pretty. I'm a sucker for a pretty face. And I was like, oh my God, I think she's got the cure for cancer. And they're like, she's pretty. Like, like she grapes style. Not a good product if you met her. I'm like, well, I mean, but. And I'm just coming up with excuses. I don't know this woman from Adam. I just know that I think she's pretty and she's got great style. And then you meet these people and you're like, damn. You're just. You got the same stuff that I'm healing from. No better, no worse. But I got to look a little deeper, you know? Or people that you assume are mean who are. The night will give you the shirt off their back. And the people that you think are, are generous and amazing and. And there's Scrooge McDuck and. Okay, in. In every way that you can imagine that. And that's. It's part of the fun life, like thinking I could sign up for Barbizon and I was gonna be Naomi Campbell. You know, you have to live and learn, you know, waste your parents money. But it's. That's life, you know, and now I wait, you know, like, there's no pedestals. I'm, I, I don't wanna be on one. I don't wanna put anyone else on one. I wanna leave room for reality. And also that the moment I meet you or the time that we are exchanging energy, it might not be your best day or mine. And that's fair. I can't label you as anything in our very limited experience. This was my takeaway. But we're all human. We're not gonna hit it out of the park every day. But I still obsess over a group of cheerleaders that came up to Me, a thousand years ago in Vegas, after I'd had a fight with my ex husband, like, on the casino floor. And I think they had just had a cheerleading competition. It was right after bringing on. And they were like, oh, but I'm crying, and I think it's not the right time, girls. And I still think the fact that I can. This was. It's been 25 years since it's come out. Like, so over 20 years. It bothers me that I didn't give them what I thought that they deserved or what. Who they thought I was. It bothered me that they were disappointed. I mean, that's life, you know? Yeah.

[Host]

It's being human.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's being human.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

You're gonna disappoint people a lot.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

You're gonna get it wrong a lot. Give grace. Receive grace. That's it. That's a tough one, but, yeah, it is hard. I'm working on that.

[Host]

Yeah, same. Honestly, when I was younger, I used to be like Judgy McJudgerson about everything. Particularly in my teens and 20s, I.

[Podcast Announcer]

Just used to judge a lot.

[Host]

Judge my friends, judge. And I wasn't necessarily wrong in some of the assessments that I made, but my delivery, like, did it. Did it need to be said out loud? Did it need to be said from me? But I learned that a lot of the judgment that I was portraying onto other people was really me judging myself. And as I've learned to be less judgmental of myself, I've become less judgmental of other people. And it's been a tough pill to swallow.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. That you're the one. Yeah. That you're the problem. Yes. Like, it's hard, but, like, it's me.

[Podcast Announcer]

Oh, shit.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. No, that sucks. And we all judge everyone. Some of us are just a little bit more vocal about it, and we can, you know, turn a phrase a little more comically. And, you know, we might attract a larger crowd, but we're all judging each other. That's how we. You have to judge to figure out how to have friends. You know what I mean? Like, you're making constant assessments of people all the time, for better or for worse. And we start when we're kids. We're like, that kid doesn't share. I don't want to be with that friend. Like, I'm. These are judgment calls constantly. You go in for an interview and you're like, okay, I'm getting interviewed, but I'm also take. I'm also judging you. You know, like, I'm taking this in. Have you ever Gone in to get your hair done and your hairstylist hair is not done. And you're like, yeah, I had an orthodontist that had a wonky tooth, and I couldn't get over it. Never went back. It's like, well, how can I trust you? Like, you know, but these are judgments that we make that can help us, save us, protect us, guide us, but also make our world a lot smaller. And you cut people out that, you know, that could really impact your life for the best. But, yeah, I mean, I listen, I judge. I judge. I'm gonna save that commentary for my group chat. I'm not letting it out in the world. But absolutely, you know, it's life, but it's not for me. It's not. I don't go to cruelty.

[Podcast Announcer]

Right.

[Gabrielle Union]

I don't go to evil like little demonic demons. Like. But if you're. If your ankles are ashy, I may notice. I may send it to the group chat. Yeah, I'm pro. I mean, karma is going to come back because I'm a forget. I'm forget. And somebody's going to zoom in on my ashy ankles and put it in their group chat or online. It always comes back fast, too. Karma's like, it does.

[Host]

Yeah, that mirror, fast.

[Podcast Announcer]

I was like, damn it.

[Gabrielle Union]

Damn it. I should have been concentrating on my own ankles.

[Host]

You had a video last year that I think you posted on TikTok that came on my for you page at the perfect time. It was advice for girlies in their 30s. It was such a good video. I turned 35 last year, and I spent most of last year in crisis about it because I thought that that meant that I was gonna, like, fall off a cliff and shrivel up, and I don't know. And then I turned 35 and was fine, and nothing happened. But I loved that video so much and so many of the things you said of reminding us not a race. There's one part you said, stop lying to your therapist. I personally felt attacked by that one.

[Gabrielle Union]

Listen, they're too expensive. I know. Like, you have, you know, your hour, and sometimes I do double sessions. You know, the first hour. I might be lying, but. No, it's like, you want help. You go there for help. You go there to. To figure out how to be your best self. And you. You can't get there if you lie it y.

[Host]

Or omit.

[Gabrielle Union]

That's what I do because I omit massive omissions. Like, girl, you. There's a big chunk that's missing, and you can't you can't become the person that you've dreamed of lying to yourself. And certainly, you know, if you're lying to yourself, you're definitely gonna be lying to your therapist for sure. Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. If you could go back and it is.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's too expensive. Too expensive.

[Host]

I'll do better when I go on Friday.

[Gabrielle Union]

I'm out of network too. Like, I'm not lying to this woman. I'm not.

[Host]

I'm not telling her at all.

[Gabrielle Union]

No.

[Host]

If you could go back and Talk to your 30something self, what would you tell her?

[Gabrielle Union]

Mm. Now, knowing what I know, freeze your eggs. That's for me personally, not as an age thing, but it was going to take me. Now I know I have the proper diagnoses. It was going to take me longer to kind of end up where I still am. I probably still would have had to use a surrogate, but I could have started the process earlier. Yeah. So it wasn't. It was a different. It's a different kind of heartbreak. I could have. I could have made peace with it a lot earlier, sooner. That divorce isn't going to kill you. That was like a biggie. Like public failure, Public humiliation feels like death because it kind of is a death. It's an ego death. But that ego needed to go anyway. So don't fear, fear not. Oh, the people will move on. The murder hornets will come. The river will turn red. I don't know, the aliens and the orbs or whatever. People move on. Like, you're not as important as you want to feel like you are. And everyone makes, you know, mistakes. And sometimes those mistakes are whole ass marriages. And it's the shame and the fear that keeps you in it longer than necessary. It's probably the shame and the fear that allowed you to accept the ring or go on the third date. The fear of being alone or not chosen or whatever. I would have definitely told her, like, stop now, stop. No, don't. Making good jamalia does not necessarily make for a great. Yeah, we should have just been friends. But you couldn't have told me that. You feel like you see all of your friends getting married and then you see them starting to have families and their careers. You're like, oh, my God, I am elite. Not just a little loser. Like a loser. It feels like there's a neon loser sign over your head and there's not. The only person who sees that is you. Absolutely. The only person who sees that is you. And perhaps family or friends that you need to cut off.

[Host]

Anyway, good reminders. Turn off the turn off the neon sign.

[Gabrielle Union]

Turn it off. Like, first of all, it's just you and you're killing it. Even if you just got up today and brush your teeth. Though I have many a day not brushed nor flossed, and. Because I just didn't have it. But I opened my eyes because when I wanted to. Just maybe if I go to sleep and I just don't wake up, that's best. But you wake up, it's a win. It's a win. And that might be it for the day, just opening your eyes. But we have to take every single win because that might be. That really might be your win for the week, but maybe the next week. Now we're brushing, we're flossing, you know, like, we might. You know, I don't know, Turn our camera on. On the zoom. I don't know. I don't know. But there's things to shoot for. And this is not the end. It's not the end. Feels like it. It's not. It's really not. There will always. You will live to see another day until you aren't. And all that time that you wasted thinking the world hates you or it's over or you're a loser or no one's gonna choose you or love you or whatever. I've lost friends earlier than I had imagined. And I lost my good girlfriend to metastatic breast cancer. And so she was aware the end was coming. And all the things that she hadn't done, all the things that she put off because I gotta have this many years in my career, and I gotta do this and this. I need the perfect apartment north. And when it was the end, she was like, none of this shit mattered. None of it mattered. And the only thing she was really committed to was bleaching her mustache. She was like, I'm not going. I'm not going out like this. But the things that mattered weren't anything that she lost sleep over, not one thing. And she died at 35. And I'm just. I. All of the things that feel like they not could break. You have broken. You. You are dust. You are broken. Like, you can't even put it back. Back together. That's what you feel like. I can't come back from this. I'll never come back from this. Whether it's a loss of a relationship or a job or your health or, you know, hair. That's not it. It's. It's not. And I'm from the other side. Like, I'm. Notes from the other Side. You'll be okay. Keep going. Celebrate your little wins, big wins, medium sized wins. Now, I look back, like I'm looking back at my younger self. I'm looking back at my younger friends, co workers, and I'm like, oh, my God. You know, but you have to go through it to know that, okay. Feels like it's killing me, but it's not. And then you see them a year or two later, and they're like, girl, I'm like, I told you. I told you it wasn't the end of the world. And look at you. You know, the life that you wanted, that you thought was about to be denied you. And it's not how it turned out.

[Host]

Such a good reminder. Thank you for that.

[Gabrielle Union]

I remind myself. Yeah, you know what I mean?

[Host]

I remember even sometimes when you're the messenger. I mean, I know sometimes I will say things because I need to hear it. And if other people benefit from it, great. But sometimes, even as the messengers, we need to hear it, too.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah, yeah. And asking for help doesn't make you helpless.

[Host]

Yeah, exactly.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know what I mean? Does it make you helpless?

[Podcast Announcer]

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[Host]

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[Podcast Announcer]

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[Host]

Have you had to learn how to ask for help?

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah, because I know all the answers. Not like, like I have to ask for help from a therapist. But you know, I famously said 50, 50 or bust, right? And you know, and I meant that in every financially, spiritually, emotionally. And there's just a lot of days that I have 10% and I need him to be 90. There's days I don't have and I need him to be 100. And I realized that so much of, well, my anxiety. I was diagnosed with PTSD after being sexually assaulted at 19. The extreme anxiety, the anxiety attacks, the being hyper focused on efficiency and time and being fiercely independent, our trauma responses. And when I started to really unpack that a couple years ago, I was a part of my girlfriend Octavia Spencer's show, truth be told, and it was about girls in the Bay area where I was sexually assaulted. Black girls, brown girls in the Bay going through this. And there was the culmination was on the courthouse steps of the Alameda county courthouse, the same courthouse I testified in front of the grand jury. And something in me broke, completely just broke. And I am not, I'm not even one of those people who can cry on cue, child. I'm like, bring in the menthol. But something in me broke and it felt. It felt wild. I am a very controlled person. And I was going home every day crying to my husband and he's like, who is this person? And I was remembering smells, sounds, feelings that my brain, thank God, had blocked out for. It's almost. It was 92. So how many years is that? It's gonna be 33 years. Had blocked out and it came back in a whoosh. And I, I realized so much more about myself and what I survived and the power of your brain and the power of your body. But I was ready to finally deal with all of it and start the work on releasing the new things that, that came up. But part of that work that I'm still working on is that trauma response. Timing myself, doing the dishes, like, timing everything. Like, and when people are late, it, it's. I mean, it's rude, but it makes me feel like you hate me, that you want something terrible to happen to me. It's not just, you know, you got caught in traffic, it's you want something terrible to happen to me. Because as long as I can control time, as long as, you know, as my brain is constantly moving and I'm thinking of every scenario constant, and people like, oh, you're so quick witted. I'm like, no, I thought about this question a billion times. It's a trauma response. It's never wanting to be so out of control. I don't have control over what is happening to my body. And 50, 50 is. You are not gonna. I'm not going to be vulnerable enough to trust you with a hundred percent of anything. Not my heart, not my cash, not my, you know, my, my, my energy, my. And when I started to really address that and I was like, do you, do you want to, to pay the whole mortgage? I thought I was about to die. I had such anxiety. Like, I was crying, I was shaking. And he was like, yeah, you insisted on that. I was like, he's like, I thought it made you feel better. I'm like, it did. And right now I want to take it back, but let's just try for a month. And I was like, I couldn't. It felt like there was something blocking from even swallowing or breathing. It felt Crazy. Now it sounds crazy to be like you, Mr. NBA superstar, who made a bazillion more amount of money than I do, can pay the mortgage. Because I. I hate. I hate the feeling of being. Of releasing that to someone. And you release that to someone, chaos can happen. So these are baby steps. Now, did I. Did I settle on about 35% of the more, you know, instead of 50? Sure. But, you know, I'm trying to. Okay, you got it. You got it. And it's brought us closer because he knows it's not about whether he can afford it. It's being vulnerable enough to be open, enough to know that I'm okay, I'm okay as his wife, I'm okay. He's okay as my husband, I'm okay in this family, I'm okay in this home. I deserve it, and I'm okay. And no matter how much I want to try to control time or people or every situation by thinking, overthinking about every single thing that could possibly happen, that never happens. I'm not any safer. I'm not any further along. I'm not. If anything, I've made my. Made my life and my world smaller. And so I'm trying to expand my heart, expand all of the notions of what vulnerability can look like. And I'm saving a lot of money, really, is what it gets to. But it, you know, it feels good to, I don't know, relinquish some of the things that I really thought kept me safe. You know, it's like my security blanket. My accountant is like, g, girl, get a blanket. Like, weight a blanket if you need to. But it's, you know, it's baby steps, and I don't have all the answers. And I said it so definitively, you know, on my boy's podcast.

[Host]

I remember that 50, 50.

[Gabrielle Union]

And the reaction was wild to me. I'm like, everybody doesn't do this. I mean, I obviously, I know there's people who don't do this, but the reaction was so aggressive. And for me, it felt like empowerment, you know what I mean? And not just mine, because it was like, you know, when you've been loved conditionally, you know, when you have a couple nickels more than somebody else, people change how they treat you and they want to be around you, and they will shift and change their notions of love to be in your world. And it sucks. It hurts. It hurts so bad, badly when it's family or your friends or, you know, and I never wanted to do that to him. You know, I never Wanted him to feel that way. And he's like, I don't. He's like, I have a lot more than you.

[Host]

It's okay.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's okay. And I'm okay of taking care of you. I was like, okay, okay, so we don't have to split vacation. He's like, no, no, we're splitting vacation. But, yeah, it's a. It's a different world. It's not a matter of can you. It's. Can you allow your heart to be kind of, in my words, tossed up, but knowing it's going to be caught on the cushioniest cloud of love and devotion and compassion and care that exists? Because I didn't think that was a thing. You don't see it a lot. Certainly, you know, we're not highlighting that, but, yeah, he's provided a very beautiful cloud of love.

[Host]

Thank you so much for sharing that. And what I appreciate about you sharing that, too, is I think sometimes people think everything is black and white. So because you had a certain arrangement or a certain stance at one point, it must mean that forever. When it's like, no. Things change as you heal, as you evolve, as you lean more into vulnerability, you can also change how you feel about something, and it's okay.

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, like, I've changed my mind about all kinds of things. I didn't want to watch the Diplomat. I was like, I don't think it's for me. Cut to. I'm addicted. So, you know, you. You have the ability to change and shift and you meet people, you read things, you go places, and you're like, oh, shift. And it doesn't have to be like an aha, you know, moment. It's. It's aha inside. But I felt like I needed to update people. Like, it's a trauma response, wanting to be that controlled and, you know, boxed into my version of what it is to be safe. And safety can look a thousand different ways. Yeah.

[Host]

Sometimes when we build those walls up for safety or to keep what we think is harm out, we can also keep love out, too.

[Gabrielle Union]

Love working with people and parts of the world that we have been told lies about. Like, yeah. I mean, I. We were traveling to me and my girlfriend, Essence Adkins, who's on Papa's House. We were flying from Cairo to Upper Aswan, the land of the Nubians. And I had no idea. Like, I thought Nubians were almost like a. Like a character in, you know, in something. I didn't know they were actual people and that they looked, you know, up in Cairo, folks Look more like ESSENCE in Upper Aswan. I was like, oh, my gosh, Egyptians can look like me. Wow. And we're right here by the Sudan, like, and I. But you don't know, because a lot of the information that we're given about who we should be as. As Americans, who we should be as women. Who should we be? We should be as black women, as black people. It's so limited. And a book, a podcast, an article, a person. I don't know, a song. It can change everything in an instant. And we have to be open to that.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

So before we wrap up today, I also want to ask you about your new movie, Riff Raff. Oh, yeah, yeah. Riff Raff. It's funny, it's dark, it's a hoot.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yes.

[Host]

Can you tell us more about what attracted you to that story and to your character Sandy?

[Podcast Announcer]

Yes.

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, the cast was insane. I was the third person to sign on, so it was Jennifer Coolidge, who's the star, and also one of the executive producers, Ed Harris, who plays my love interest in this. And then after I came on, it was Bill Murray and Pete Davidson and Lewis Pullman, who's this amazing young actor who's, I guess the world has, you know, taken up and loved up on. And then I started really getting into the character of Sandy, and it was a different kind. It's definitely a different kind of genre that I've ever been a part of. And the character was so, so much more complex than what was on the page. And it's kind of a lot about what we're talking about where it's like, it's good enough, you know, kind of like life is what happens when you're busy making plans. She had a different dream, ended up with a different life than she had imagined for herself and her parents had imagined for herself, and she made it good enough. And then there's a little piece of information that, you know that comes in. Different people come into your life, or they say something or something happens, or you read a book or article, listen to podcasts, and it shifts your whole life. Everything you thought you knew can get turned on its head. And what can happen also about, like, you know, when blended families go wrong and who deserves what.

[Host]

Yes.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know, and the fact that, you know, my dad got remarried after 30 years, and who he was with my mother is not who he is with his, you know, now wife. And people have the ability to change. But, like, what did she deserve? Doesn't she deserve what the new wife has? And it's those kinds of messy, you know, familial resentments that are kind of the foundation of this movie. But it's dark, darkly funny, and it's like a crime, you know, a crime thriller, family comedy dramedy. And, you know, the War of the Roses a little bit. But it's funny. It's funny. You don't have all those comedians in it, not be funny. But it's also like a thrill ride. I love it.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. And I get to make out with Ed Harris. There you go.

[Host]

Which was unlikely.

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, everyone was like, how do you feel about the age gap? I'm like, what age gap? And I'm like, oh. They're like, he's 70 something. I was like, I can't tell. He is. He's like one of those men who enters a room so confident. He doesn't need to be loud. He doesn't need to raise his voice. You kind of lean in and he starts talking about his ranch, and he does all the ranch duties. When he talks about his wife, his, like, eyes sparkle, you know, plays instruments. He sings, like. And he's just a man. You know what I mean? He fixes things. You know, he chops wood and shit. I was like, yes, like, any day, he is that guy. I do feel like he should be getting more love for being the hot leading man that he is. I think we can rectify that with this year's people's most sexy beautiful. He should be on. He should be on the COVID First one.

[Podcast Announcer]

I would love to see it.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For us kids who are a little longer in the tooth, I think we.

[Host]

Can appreciate someone like Ed Seasoned, sexiest man alive.

[Gabrielle Union]

Listen, you got the Tony Cha Chare. You got all of it. You got all the seasoning. Yeah.

[Host]

So good. Gabrielle, thank you so much for joining me today. I loved this conversation and just appreciate how much you shared with us.

[Gabrielle Union]

No, thank you. And it's my pleasure.

[Host]

Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode. I hope that you enjoyed the conversation with Gabrielle as much as I did. There's so many takeaways that I feel like I'm able to apply to my life just from so much of what she shared. So if you enjoyed this episode, please make sure that you are subscribed to the show. Because also, the show's gonna be going through some changes pretty soon. At the end of March, we're gonna have a rebrand, a new look, a new feel, a new name. So make sure that you hit follow either on Apple on Spotify, on YouTube.

[Podcast Announcer]

Wherever you get the show.

[Host]

So when we move into our next era, you don't miss a beat if you enjoyed this conversation. Also, please make sure that you leave.

[Podcast Announcer]

Us a rating and a review.

[Host]

We aim to offer five star conversations and experiences, so your five stars would be greatly appreciated. Make sure you check out the show notes for everything that is mentioned in today's episode. Thank you again for tuning in and I'll see you next week. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products.

[Gabrielle Union]

Or services referred to in this episode.