Unknown Host (2:42)

Can we talk more about that? Because I want to be luckier and.

Les (2:46)

Would love to have more serendipitous moments.

Unknown Host (2:48)

I even loved what you said where you were like, actually, it happens a lot. Let me think of an example.

Francesca Hoagie (2:52)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (2:52)

How can we channel more of that energy if we don't feel like we're in a space where that's happening much?

Francesca Hoagie (2:58)

Yeah. Well, I think everything always starts with intention. So even just the decision, like, okay, I want to notice. I want to experience more serendipities in my life. I really see serendipity as a force that exists, just like love exists, joy exists, creativity exists, and it's something that we get to tap into. So even just by bringing your attention to it and just setting that intention courts it. But I think there is a lot of serendipitous things that happen that people are just so quick to be like, oh, that's just a coincidence, or, that was so random. But I really look at those things as, like, oh, no, like, another thing. Actually, this also just happened the other day because I find a lot of money on the street, and people are always like, why are you always finding money on the street? And I'm like, because once it started happening, I just decided to call myself the queen of found money. And. And I literally have a hashtag on Instagram, and I have found, like, thousands of dollars in cash on the street just walking through my day. And I really think it's because I expect to. So that expectation is really, really powerful.

Unknown Host (4:01)

Yeah. Like, we see it more when we're looking for it.

Francesca Hoagie (4:05)

Yeah. Like, what you focus on expands.

Les (4:07)

Right.

Francesca Hoagie (4:07)

And it's. It's totally true. And I think the same thing happens with love. We can make our own luck and love and court serendipity. When it comes to the love journey.

Unknown Host (4:16)

Okay, that's what we got to talk about today. Because, you know, it's been hard, I think, the past couple of years in particular. When it comes dating, when it comes to love, when it comes to relationships, there's been a lot of friction in the cultural zeitgeist about it, where the ways that everybody talks about it is how hard it is and how challenging it is and how much people just feel kind of unhappy and icky about dating and that whole process. Yeah. Can we talk more about why that is and ways that we can start.

Les (4:46)

Cultivating Our own luck in that area.

Francesca Hoagie (4:48)

Yeah, you're so right. And I think it's the real problem that the conversation about love and dating is so disempowering and it's so bleak. And I understand why people want to share, like, you know, your bad dating stories and you want to get that validation on social media. And however, I think that it is a problem that the expectation that so many people have is that dating is going to be hard, it's going to suck, it's probably not going to be successful. It's going to take a miracle for you to meet anyone Great. Again, like, what is the expectation? But I'm not blaming, you know, the people who are struggling with dating. I think that, you know, culturally right now we have a lot of things going on that make dating harder. I think that the last 10 years since dating apps have really, really gone mainstream. Dating has become more of a source of entertainment. The bar to entry is so low. I mean, back in the day when I was. Because I used to be a lawyer in my previous career and when I was a young lawyer, and I'm like, I don't know how to date. I want to have a boyfriend. I don't know how to make that happen. I went on match.com back when that was, like, something that was still, like, really stigmatized, but I was really motivated, and so were a lot of the other people were like, we were, like, motivated to, like, meet somebody and, like, get off. We did not want to be on match.com any longer than we needed to be. So we had this very high intent way of approaching that whole process. Whereas now, like, the bar to entry is so low, anybody can just create a profile in two seconds, and then they can just use the technology the way the apps want you to use it, which is just to, like, treat people like items in a catalog and swipe, swipe, swipe. And that is not the ideal way for us to connect. So I think that the fact that people are so dependent on apps is a problem is really, they have taken our romantic agency away from us, and that's not good. So once you feel like your only way of meeting someone is swiping on an app, which is an experience that most people don't enjoy, that right there is a problem. Right? So it's like, I mean, I hate doing this and I feel unlikely to be successful at it. So we're not setting ourselves up to win, right? And then we just, you know, societally, like, we have a loneliness epidemic. We have more division than Ever. We have fewer opportunities to come together in person, so people are more isolated, and so that makes them even more dependent on technology. And that's just not how we're meant to connect. I mean, I'm not totally knocking dating apps. I think that they're an important tool. There is a way to use them that they can be more successful than the way the average person uses them. However, I really do not think that they should be the primary way that people are connecting. I think it's time for us to be much more intentional about being more brave, being more intentional about, like, okay, I'm gonna go out in the world. I'm gonna open myself up to meeting people. What does that look like? What is that gonna push me to do differently in terms of how I'm showing up, where I'm showing up, the energy that I'm bringing, my ability to start a conversation with a stranger, to make eye contact, to smile, to, you know, just be vulnerable in ways that the apps and just technology in general, like, kind of discourage. Right. And it's really easy to hide behind a screen. And it's a lot. It's harder to be more present in person and to be open in that way, but it's so much more fulfilling.

Unknown Host (8:11)

There was so much good stuff that you shared that I want to come back to. A few different things that you just touched on. You mentioned romantic agency. Can we talk more about what that means and what does it look like to have strong romantic agency?

Francesca Hoagie (8:26)

Yeah. So basically, I think of, like, love confidence. Love confidence is just your confidence in your ability to find love, keep love, just practically, like, how confident do I feel that I am that I can go in the world, I can meet a great partner, I can co create the kind of relationship that I want and that can be successful over time. And a lot of people have very, very, very low love confidence for lots of reasons. That is not their fault, but it's still just a reality. And that in romantic agency, which is basically like your belief that you have some control over your love life. Right. That is something that so many people have lost, and that only makes your love confidence lower. And the lower your love confidence is, then the less likely you are to actually with anything. Like, it's. It's not that you can't meet someone great. It's not that you can't get into a great relationship, but it's going to be a lot harder the more disempowered you feel in that process.

Unknown Host (9:23)

Got it?

Francesca Hoagie (9:23)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (9:24)

So how can people feel more empowered.

Francesca Hoagie (9:26)

So I think that people need to start to push themselves to date differently. So that is really starting with evaluating. Okay, what am I actually doing here, right? Like, what is the purpose of this? What do I actually want? Not everybody has the same love goals. And being clear on, like, what love is really calling you to experience is something that is really important. I always suggest that people think of it in three month increments. So even if you know, like, okay, I want to get married, I want to fall in love, I want to have a true love partnership for the rest of my life. Even if that's your overarching goal. So where are you today on that journey? And what do you want your love life to look like in three months? So if you're like, okay, I'm just swiping away and I'm not actually dating people, so in three months I want to be dating people. I want to feel like I have some romantic agency, like I can make dates happen. Okay, and then you can start to reverse engineer that. What do I need to do differently? Rather than just doing the same thing that you know, the same way you've been doing it and hoping to get a different outcome, it's time to say, okay, maybe I need to push myself to start going to more places where I'm going to meet people. I need to ask my friends for setups. I need to be more vulnerable in how I'm interacting. I need to be willing to start a conversation. I don't need to be as passive and hope that I'm chosen, but I need to actually think about, well, who do I want to connect with? What's my comfort level with receiving romantic attention? What's my comfort level with giving that attention to someone else? I think there's just a lot of skills that people overlook because we're taught that romantic love is just this magical fantasy and you're supposed to just meet this one perfect person and everything just unfolds without any effort. But actually, I believe that we're all on a lifelong love journey and this journey is calling us to be more skilled at love and, you know, showing up with authenticity, communicating vulnerability, healthy boundaries, compromise, discernment. Like, there are so many love skills that dating actually teaches us if you approach dating from the right perspective. So I think just understanding, like, okay, what do I actually need to work on Here is a way to start to make the dating experience feel more tangible and more productive. Because you're not just like hoping to get lucky, you're more like, okay, I'm actually working on my communication, I'm working on my discernment. I'm working on my intuition. Right. Like, so many people are dating and they're just completely ignoring their intuition because they just want what they want, and they don't want to listen to what their bodies are telling them. When they're meeting people, they're spending time and they're like, oh, that didn't sit right with me. But, you know, this person's so cute, and I want it to work out, so I'm not going to pay attention. Right. That could be a lesson that love is calling you to learn. Like, how many more times are you going to ignore your inner wisdom on this journey? Your inner wisdom is actually here to guide you.

Unknown Host (12:14)

Definitely. And are there things people can do to strengthen those things? Is it journaling? Is it body scans to check in with how they feel after they spend time with someone?

Francesca Hoagie (12:22)

Yes.

Unknown Host (12:23)

What does that look like?

Francesca Hoagie (12:23)

All of those things? These are all things that I recommend. I'm a huge fan of journaling. I'm a huge fan of breath work. And it doesn't have to be, you know, elaborate, but just literally just checking in, taking a deep breath. Like, are you in your body? Are you being present in this moment? You know, I think it's so easy, especially in a dating scenario, to just be in your head. And there could be all sorts of narratives running in your head. You could be like, oh, my God, I said this, or, what do they think of me? Or, how do I look right now? Or, you know, why are they wearing that? Or just so many things that can be going on. Whereas if we're, like, more intentional about calming the noise in the head and being more present in your body, then you can actually start to feel like, okay, what does it actually feel like to be in conversation with this person, to be in proximity to this person? Does this feel good? Does this feel comfortable? Does this feel exciting? Do I feel butterflies? Or do I feel, you know, something else? And just, like, literally, it's a practice of presence, and that is something that we can do through journaling to prepare ourselves for that, but also in the moment, to really think about, okay, how can I breathe? How can I be grounded? How can I not be distracted? You know? And it's just, these are all skills that people can work on.

Les (13:43)

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Unknown Host (18:25)

Earlier you also talked about dating apps being a tool, but not necessarily the end all be all. And you mentioned something in particular about how most people are not using them effectively.

Les (18:35)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (18:36)

What are some common mistakes that people use or do when they're on the apps that are hindering their ability to use them effectively.

Francesca Hoagie (18:43)

Yeah, well, I think the first thing is people have to understand that if you're on the app and you're looking for like a great relationship and you want to get off the app, your incentives are actually misaligned with the app's incentives. Because if everyone who was on a Dating app fell in love tomorrow and deleted the app, a multibillion dollar industry would collapse. Okay, so they need some people to be successful, but they certainly do not need or want most people to be successful, regardless of what the marketing says, okay? So people have to understand that. So just as if, like any other tech platform, if you're just sort of mindlessly using it and just going along with the technology the way they want you to, you know, like, if you're on TikTok and you just watch every video that comes up and you just keep going, keep going, like that's what TikTok wants, right? Like that's what Instagram wants. But if you, like, want to use this in a more productive way for yourself, you need to have some more rules for yourself, right? So I think that just, number one, is important for people to understand. And then number two, a lot of people make the mistake of trying to get as many matches as possible. And if you have that mindset of, like, I want as many matches as possible, and I understand it because it makes you think, like, oh, the more matches I have, the more options I have, then I'll make a better choice. But the reality is that the paradox of choice is something that people really, really struggle with on the apps because you have this illusion of infinite choice. You feel like, oh, I can just keep going and going and going, but the reality is that that's a trap, right? So just thinking that I can just keep going. I can treat people as disposable. They can say one small thing that I don't like, or they can be wearing one shirt that I don't like or like. They say they like sci fi. I hate Sci fi. I've never dated. But, you know, like, things like that, it's just like, okay, calm down, you know? And this is another reason why meeting people in person is so much preferable, because then you're actually so much more present with that person and you're not making a bunch of assumptions. So going back to what I was saying before, a lot of people are trying to be as widely appealing as possible, so they are trying to have their best photos. And I say to people, I'm like, your dating app photos should not be the best photos you've ever taken. Like, you don't want someone to actually meet you in person and be like, oh, oh, okay. I mean, I guess you're the same person I can kind of see. But, like, that's playing a very short game of, I want a lot of matches. But if you Actually start to think of, like, well, I actually want to connect with the right people, so how can my photos show what I look like? And obviously, like, I'm not saying don't look good in your photos, but think about, like, it's you with a bow on it, right? Like, you don't want somebody to meet you and feel like they've been catfished. That's. That's never good, right? Also, just, like, is your personality coming through? And this is also when people are swiping. People are so quick to swipe. But it's like, actually just take a moment with that photo, and what's the energy you're getting from that photo? Right? What's the energy you're getting from this whole person's profile together is what they are saying and what they are present, how they're presenting themselves in their photos. Is that matching up? And this gets back into, like, that intuition. I mean, probably the biggest mistake people make, or one of the biggest, is overestimating their ability to determine in a heartbeat whether or not they are. Aren't a good match with someone. I would say that for me and for many, many other people that I know who are in happy relationships, they say they're like, if I saw this person on a dating app, I never would have swiped on them because they just don't present themselves in, like, they're not the kind of person who's gonna market themselves as, like, look at me, you know? You know, in that way that a lot of people do. And so I think people just need to be a bit more humble about, like, okay, especially if you've been on the apps for a long time and you've been, you know, maybe stuck in a rut. It's like, okay, maybe the way that I'm approaching this is not quite right. So maybe I need to get new photos, because the story that my photos are telling are not actually in alignment with what I'm seeking, because I always have people show me their dating and profiles. And so many times someone will tell me they're looking for something serious. But literally, when I look at their photos, they are indistinguishable for somebody who's looking for a hookup. And that's a problem. You know, like, your profile should look different than somebody who's looking for a hookup if you were looking for a serious relationship. So, yeah, I could go on. There's a lot of things.

Unknown Host (23:03)

It's really helpful, though, because it can be such a cycle, and I think there's such a Download, get frustrated, delete. Yes, I know. I've been in it many times with dating apps. And then I get back on. I'm like, the same. People are still here. Y' all still here, too.

Francesca Hoagie (23:17)

Okay.

Les (23:17)

We're still.

Francesca Hoagie (23:18)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (23:18)

You just redownloaded this, too.

Francesca Hoagie (23:20)

Yeah. Yeah.

Les (23:21)

And it can be such a cycle.

Unknown Host (23:22)

That's so frustrating.

Francesca Hoagie (23:24)

Yeah, it really can. And I always tell people, I'm like, I think it's a really good idea. If you've been on an app for a long time and you're feeling really frustrated and you're seeing the same people over and over, just stop, delete the app, and just give yourself a break. Give yourself a break. Give yourself a break of, you know, a week, a month. Just something that you can reset. How can you start to connect with people so you don't feel so dependent on the app? You know, how can you start to push yourself to do different things in real life? I mean, I know that, like, you know, the last time I was single, I used to go to events by myself all the time. And it wasn't just to meet somebody to date. It was just because I was like, I'm embracing connection for the sake of connection. And I think that's another thing that people, we want to control and we want to predict. And you think you know how you're going to meet someone, and you think you know how your love story is going to unfold, but literally, you can't know that. Like, it is impossible to know. And so how can you just open yourself up if you're like, I don't know why, but for months now, I've just been feeling like, I want to take a pottery class. Go take a pottery class. And it's not that you're. I mean, maybe you're going to meet the love of your life at a pottery class because that sort of thing happens. Maybe you're going to make a new friend. Maybe you're just going to feel inspired. Maybe because you did that, it's going to lead you to doing something else. And that something else is where you're going to meet someone amazing, you know? So I think the more people can sort of embrace that. There's something in me that is calling me to have this love and have this connection. So I believe that it is possible for me. I think this is important for people to ask themselves. And I think if, you know, I mean, I'm just generally a more spiritual person, as you could probably tell. But I just don't believe in a universe where you have inside of you this desire to have this beautiful, loving partnership if it's not possible for you, I just don't believe that. So if you can accept the possibility that, okay, maybe this really is available to me. So how can I start to turn inwards, and how can I start to connect to that belief and strengthen that belief and start knowing again? Like, I don't know how this is going to unfold. So I don't know why I'm being called to go to this event or to say yes to this invitation or to speak to this person. I mean, I've had, again, serendipity is a thing that happens to me a lot. And my current partner I met at conference, which was a very serendipitous experience. But my relationship before that, I met my partner walking down the street in la.

Unknown Host (25:46)

I remember you, like, tweeting about this years ago.

Francesca Hoagie (25:48)

Yeah, yeah, like, years ago. And because I was a person who at that time already had embraced what I call the meet cute mindset, which is the belief that every time you leave your house, you have the potential to meet someone special. And I was single, and I was like, okay, I'm just going to go where the wind takes me. And I went to a screening one night by myself because I just wanted to go see this movie. And I was walking home down Sunset Boulevard, and I wind up meeting this guy on a corner, and we have a brief conversation, and he was getting in an Uber. So he gets in an Uber and he leaves. But my intuition was just telling me. I said, I feel like I'm supposed to keep talking to him. I just feel like I'm supposed to keep talking to him. And so I call this one bold move. So I did a bold move because we'd had enough conversation that I knew his name. He told me where he worked. I knew he was a scientist. I knew. I was like, I can find him. So I went home and I Googled him and I found his Twitter and I slid into his Twitter DMS and I just said, it was nice meeting you. I didn't say hi. I didn't say bye. I just said, it was nice meeting you. And I'm like, I don't know if this guy could be gay. He could be married. Like, I have no idea. All I knew is that my intuition said I'm supposed to keep talking to this person. Right? And also if he's like, oh, my God, she's a total crazy person, that's fine, too. But maybe he's not. Maybe that's not going to be his reaction. And it wasn't. His reaction was like, it was really nice meeting you too. Want to go have dinner? You know, and we were together for years after that. So I think that just embracing the fact that things are going to unfold in unexpected ways is just so, so important on your love journey. Especially like that single part of your love journey. Otherwise, it's really easy to drive yourself crazy, like, where are they and how am I going to do it? And you know, which app do I have to be on to meet the person? And there's not just one answer that your mind can tell you. So, like really developing that relationship and that conversation with yourself and your intuition and your inner wisdom is like the missing secret sauce that so many people overlook on their dating journey.

Les (27:56)

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Unknown Host (31:19)

I loved what you said about the one bold move and how you're using your intuition to guide your one bold move.

Francesca Hoagie (31:25)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (31:25)

Is that something that you teach and kind of advise people?

Francesca Hoagie (31:28)

Yes, it is. Yeah. So one of the things that I talk a lot about is flirting because a lot of the problems that people have in modern dating could actually be solved by getting better at flirting. And that includes meeting people organically. And you know, in my book I have a whole chapter on flirting and I have eight different styles of flirting that I've identified. But sometimes, you know, you have the opportunity to meet somebody and have a little conversation and feel it out and like be playful or you know, all those sort of things. And then other times you don't have that opportunity, so you have to be more bold. And that is something that like fortune favors the bold. Right. And it's not about being thirsty, it's not about being desperate, and it's not if you're a woman who dates men. It's not about pursuing I had no intention of pursuing my ex. Like that was not what it was. I was really just like, if this person is interested, then all I'm doing is giving him the opportunity to pick up this ball and run with it. Right. Which is what he did. And so sometimes a bold move is walking across the room and introducing yourself to someone. Sometimes it's sliding into DMs, sometimes it's giving a compliment. You know, it's like, whatever for you is really seizing that moment and pushing you out of your comfort zone. But you're. You're just listening to that intuition that you're like, yeah, I think that's someone that I want to meet. I want to get to know better. I mean, we just got to go for it. The world would be a better place if people just went for it more often.

Unknown Host (32:52)

Flirting is one of those things that is. I don't want to say hard, but I know in my experience, all of my best flirtation happens when I'm so not interested. When a game is on a hundred. I think just because you don't care and you feel like you have nothing to lose when you're not that interested. And then the second you have a little bit of interest, Awkward city. Then it's like you're invested and you want to come across a certain way. And then it feels kind of clunky and uncomfortable.

Francesca Hoagie (33:22)

Yeah. Because now you've gotten into your head.

Les (33:24)

Yeah.

Francesca Hoagie (33:24)

You've gotten out of your body, you've gotten out of the moment, and you've gotten into your head. Right. And so it's okay to feel nervous. Nervousness and excitement are two sides of the same coin. Right. So when you're feeling nervous, just feel like, oh, this is good. Something's happening. Like, better to feel nervousness than nothing. Right? Right. But it's like, okay, let me take a deep breath. Right. Like, you have the skill inside of you. Not everybody has that, but it's great that you do. So now it's like, okay. My advice to you would be like, okay, I'm actually going to work on being able to be open to flirting and connecting when I actually have interest. Right. But also, I mean, one of the purposes of flirting is to help to spark interest in chemistry. So I don't think it's a bad thing that you're flirting with people that you don't have interest in. Do you also have openness to, like. Well, I'm not immediately attracted to this person, but, you know, there's something cool about them, and we'll see where it goes. Do you ever think that when you're flirting?

Unknown Host (34:18)

I have.

Francesca Hoagie (34:18)

Okay. Okay. Okay. And so have you ever had the experience of meeting somebody and maybe you weren't initially attracted to them, but, like, after a little bit of that energy flowing, you were like, oh, okay, yeah. So that's great, too. I mean, I think, you know, at its core, learning the way that I define it are words and actions that are designed to make another person feel seen, special, and acknowledged. That's the baseline. And then you can layer on top of that desirable, and then you can layer on top of that desired by you specifically. Right. And so there's different ways to flirt that are appropriate at different times. And like I said, these are all skills that you can develop, that you can strengthen. Maybe you're really able to be very playful, which is a style of flirting when the stakes are lower, Right. So you're not in. So in your head. But maybe when you are meeting somebody that you actually are interested in, maybe it. Rather than defaulting to playful, maybe now you want to be more attentive, for instance, so you. Maybe you're switching up your flirting style in certain situations. And so attentiveness is just literally like the energy of just leaning in and being like, wow, I just find you so fascinating, like, tell me more, you know, and asking interesting questions that lead to more conversation and, you know, asking questions that you actually care about the answer to. Sharing something of yourself that maybe you wouldn't normally share with somebody that you just met. But that's a style of flirting, if that's your intention. Right. Compliments are another style of flirting. That's a really easy thing to do. It could be really vulnerable. But if there's just something that you see in somebody that. That you're really drawn to, and you just say, you know, I just, wow. Like, I love your style, you know, or like, you know, you have an amazing smile, or I love your hat, or I love the way you placed your coffee order. Like, I mean, literally anything, you know, as long as it's sincere. So I think that's another thing that could help you is just starting to figure out, like, okay, well, how can I switch things up when my default playfulness. I'm not feeling that right now. Because I also think a lot of people think that flirting only looks one way, which is another problem. And so if they don't feel that confidence, you know, being super playful and teasing, then they're like, well, then I can't flirt. It's like, yeah, you can. You just have to do it differently.

Les (36:34)

That makes sense.

Francesca Hoagie (36:35)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (36:36)

And what about for the people who may feel like, okay, Wait, I don't even have the skill of flirting at all. Whether I'm. I'm interested or not. Maybe those people who are starting from, like, level one.

Francesca Hoagie (36:45)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (36:46)

How to Flirt 101.

Francesca Hoagie (36:48)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (36:48)

What should they do to feel more comfortable?

Francesca Hoagie (36:50)

They have to practice. They have to desensitize themselves to it. And so I would also. Even before you get into the styles of flirting, there's just, like, these kind of foundational elements that you can work on. So eye contact, that's a big one. A lot of people are very uncomfortable with that. And that's fine to be uncomfortable with it, but you also want to, like, work on it. And so don't wait until you see the one person you've seen all month that you're, like, instantly attracted to. You know, just literally, like when you're placing your coffee order, you can look at that person in the eye. When you're saying hi to your coworker in the elevator, look them in the eye just to get yourself in the habit of that eye contact. So when you do meet somebody that you might be interested in, it's not like, oh, my God, now I'm trying to do this thing that's so uncomfortable for me all the time. So eye contact is really huge presence, as we were talking about. So just. Because what gets in our way is really what's in your head, right? And so how can you just start to breathe, come back to your body? Like, do a body scan? You know, even just literally, like, I'm going to feel the energy in my fingers. Like, I'm going to focus on feeling the energy in my fingers just as a way to redirect, you know, so you can be more present. Presence is really important. Just think about, like, your general overall vibe. Like, you know, are you somebody who is open? Do you seem approached, approachable? Are you the kind of person, or are you always on your phone? And so even if somebody was interested in talking to you, they don't feel like they have that opening or that permission. So even just noticing, okay, what's my body language? Right? Like, if I wanted to send a nonverbal signal to not be approached, what would I do? And then do the opposite, right? And these are just these little things that the more you kind of bring your attention to it. And I also think that if you're really somebody who's like, I have no idea what to do, think of the people in your life and notice the people in your life who actually are good at making those connections. And what can you Learn from them. And how can you push yourself? It's not that you have to be like anybody else. And also, I want to shout out introverts for this because I think a lot of times people think, oh, I'm more introverted. And so flirting is really hard for me. But I actually think that if you're introverted, then if you get good at flirting, it really is really a superpower. And sometimes people who are more extroverted actually have more difficulty flirting. I mean, they can flirt, but it's less effective because they are so open to everyone that it doesn't necessarily come across as special. Right. And so if you are more introverted, then you actually have the opportunity to be more effective in your efforts at flirting. And for extroverts, it's a little bit harder for them to convey that interest.

Unknown Host (39:30)

That definitely makes sense because the person on the receiving end doesn't feel as special.

Les (39:34)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (39:34)

Speaking from experience.

Francesca Hoagie (39:35)

Yeah, no, totally. Yeah. If you're like, oh, like, this is cool, but also this person is like, you're like that with everybody. Yeah. Like, you just give like a fire hose of attention to everyone around, and it doesn't make you feel special. You know, it's just like, okay, this is just their personality versus if somebody is more reserved and they're like, you know, hey, I love your outfit. Like, you're like, oh, wow, like, they mean it.

Unknown Host (39:56)

Exactly.

Les (39:58)

Yeah.

Unknown Host (40:00)

I would also love to talk about maybe bad advice that people are getting. And I have realized recently that I've had a lot of dating advice in my head just from the zeitgeist. I don't even try to consume a lot of it, but we still just hear it so much. Where I had a lot of advice swirling around in my head that maybe wasn't the best advice and led to a little bit of self sabotaging.

Francesca Hoagie (40:24)

A little bit.

Unknown Host (40:26)

And it's made me take a more critical eye to what is the advice that I'm listening to? What am I consuming? What am I taking to heart? Is there either a kind of rule that people follow or a piece of conventional advice that you hear a lot that you actually think we should not listen listen to.

Francesca Hoagie (40:44)

So if you want to create a relationship dynamic where the only men that are drawn to you are the men who are drawn to you because you're being, like, really, like, giggly and girly and flirty in that sort of stereotypical way, then, like, go for it if that's the dynamic you want. But if you don't want to feel like you have to perform that, and you can be more yourself. Then don't listen to that advice. Right. So I think there's a lot of advice around flirting that is very. In that sort of realm, which is. Which I think is problematic because I think it puts people in boxes, and it leads to a lot of performance. And it's like, why would you. It's too tiring. I'm like, I personally don't have the energy to perform. So anyway, so I think that's a big thing. I think that a lot of women get advice that's essentially around being chosen. So how can you show up in a way that men are choosing you? And that's something that, you know, this is like. Like from the fairy tales and, like, romance. Like, we've gotten that message our whole lives. If you were raised as a girl in our culture, you have gotten the message that you were supposed to be chosen by a man, and that is the greatest thing that can happen to you, no matter how successful and all of these things. Like, if you're not. Oh, but you're single, you had. Nobody chose you. Like, nobody put a ring on it. Like, you failed. Right. So I think any advice in that realm is really problematic. I think that there's a lot of advice around, like, how much money somebody should spend on a date, how much money they should make. A lot of these numbers are very random. I had a guy come up to me after an event recently, and he's like, yeah, my friend was dating this woman, and she said that he had to spend $110,000 on an engagement ring. And he was like, okay, so I guess we're not dating anymore. And I was like, that's such a specific number. Where does she get that from? You know? So I think there's, like, a lot of people get these numbers in their head. They get these stats in their head that it's just, like, based in I don't even know what. So I think any relationship or dating advice that doesn't make you feel empowered and it doesn't make you feel like I get to be myself and have the love that I want is problematic.

Unknown Host (42:41)

So good. I feel like that was such a good mic drop moment to. To really kind of culminate our conversation.

Les (42:50)

Fran, thank you so much.

Unknown Host (42:52)

Can you please let the girls know where they can find you, where they can learn more from you, where they can get your amazing book? Will you talk more about this?

Francesca Hoagie (43:00)

Yes. So I'm very easy to find. I'm ear Franny on all the socials. So that's D E A R F R A N N Y. I also have a podcast called Dear Franny and my book is called how to find true love, unlock your romantic flow and create lasting relationships and it is available wherever you get your books or audiobooks.

Unknown Host (43:18)

Amazing.

Les (43:19)

We'll make sure that all of your information is linked in the description to make it easy to find.

Francesca Hoagie (43:22)

Thank you.

Les (43:22)

Thank you for joining me.

Francesca Hoagie (43:24)

Oh thank you for having me. This is so much fun.

Les (43:27)

Foreign thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of she's so Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show. Notes for resources, links and discount codes. And if you are really feeling lucky, we would appreciate your rating and your review. It really helps us be able to improve the show to get great guests and to understand what you want to hear more of. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week.

Dear Media (44:06)

Hi, I'm Dr. Will Cole. As a leading functional medicine practitioner, I have had the unique position to see so many alchemize their pain and health problems to their purpose. Now I want the same for you. This podcast is the manifesto for a new breed of health seekers where there is a fresh infusion of grace and lightness into wellness. This is the art of being well. Join me every Thursday for a new episode.

Francesca Hoagie (44:34)

Please note that this episode may contain.

Les (44:36)

Paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.