How to Follow Your Creative Calling with Tia Williams

Summary

She's So Lucky – Episode Summary: "How to Follow Your Creative Calling with Tia Williams"

In this inspiring episode of "She’s So Lucky," host Les Alfred sits down with the iconic New York Times bestselling author, Tia Williams, to delve into her remarkable journey of creating her own luck in the literary world. Released on April 1, 2025, this episode is a treasure trove of insights, discussions, and actionable advice for aspiring writers and creative women alike.

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I. Tia Williams' Journey: From Beauty Editor to Bestselling Author

Les Alfred begins by exploring Tia Williams' unconventional path from a successful career in beauty editing to becoming a celebrated novelist. Tia shares that her dual passions for fashion and fiction were evident from a young age, laying a strong foundation for her future endeavors.

Tia Williams [06:03]: "There was never really a pivot. I've always done both at the same time."

Tia recounts her early years working with prominent magazines like Glamour, balancing her editorial responsibilities while nurturing her dream of writing romance novels. This seamless integration of her professional and creative pursuits underscores her commitment to her passions.

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II. The Writing Process: Planning, Plotting, and Overcoming Blocks

When discussing her writing methodology, Tia identifies herself as a plotter—a meticulous planner who outlines her stories extensively before writing. This approach not only streamlines her creative process but also accommodates her chronic migraine condition, allowing her to maximize productive writing periods.

Tia Williams [20:57]: "I do a ton of research. I make sure there aren't any loose ends or plot holes."

Les and Tia delve into strategies for overcoming creative plateaus, emphasizing the importance of having a structured plan. Tia's disciplined approach serves as a valuable blueprint for writers seeking to harness their creativity effectively.

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III. Adaptations: Bringing Stories to the Screen

A significant highlight of the conversation is Tia's experience witnessing her novel, "The Perfect Find," being adapted into a Netflix film starring Gabrielle Union. She describes the surreal feeling of seeing her characters come to life on screen and the emotional impact of watching her story resonate with audiences at the Tribeca Film Festival.

Tia Williams [15:59]: "It was one of the highlights of my life as a writer."

Additionally, Tia shares exciting news about "Seven Days in June" being adapted into a limited series by Amazon, highlighting the expanded narrative possibilities that a series format offers over a single film.

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IV. The Impact of "Seven Days in June" and Other Works

"Seven Days in June" is celebrated as a gateway book that has reawakened many readers' love for romance, including Les. Tia attributes its success to its dual identity as both contemporary fiction and a romance novel, making it accessible to a broader audience.

Tia Williams [19:59]: "Reese's Book Club pick for June of 2021... gave it a huge boost."

The book's selection by influential book clubs played a pivotal role in its widespread acclaim, illustrating the power of such platforms in elevating an author's reach and impact.

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V. New Endeavors: YA Book Inspired by Her Daughter

Expanding her literary repertoire, Tia introduces her upcoming young adult novel, "Audrey and Bash Are Just Friends." Inspired by her own daughter, Audrey, the book explores the complexities of teenage friendships and personal growth. Tia emphasizes the authenticity of Audrey's character, credited to her daughter's invaluable input.

Tia Williams [36:17]: "Audrey is inspired by her 1000%."

This new venture not only showcases Tia's versatility as a writer but also her dedication to creating relatable and genuine characters for younger audiences.

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VI. Advice on Following Your Creative Calling

Throughout the episode, Tia Williams imparts wisdom on pursuing creative passions despite challenges. She discusses the necessity of embracing imperfect beginnings, drawing inspiration from literary giants like Toni Morrison.

Tia Williams [47:46]: "You just have to let it be bad and not be hard on yourself because it's never gonna be great the first time."

Tia also touches on the importance of taking risks and stepping out of one's comfort zone to unlock true creative potential, encouraging listeners to prioritize their dreams even amidst uncertainties.

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VII. Overcoming Perfectionism and Embracing the Process

Addressing common creative struggles, Tia speaks candidly about dealing with perfectionism and the fear of producing subpar work. She advocates for the value of the "shitty first draft," emphasizing that initial imperfections are stepping stones to refined masterpieces.

Tia Williams [46:40]: "Allowing yourself the freedom to write poorly opens doors that you would not imagine, truly."

This perspective serves as a comforting reminder for creators to prioritize progress over perfection, fostering a healthier and more productive creative process.

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VIII. Conclusion

In wrapping up the episode, Les Alfred and Tia Williams reflect on the importance of community, perseverance, and staying true to one's creative vision. Tia's journey from a corporate beauty editor to a full-time author exemplifies the transformative power of following one's passion and creating one's own luck.

Les Alfred: "If you really love something, just do it too."

This episode not only celebrates Tia's achievements but also serves as a beacon of inspiration for women striving to realize their creative dreams against all odds.

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Notable Quotes:

• Tia Williams [06:03]: "There was never really a pivot. I've always done both at the same time."
• Tia Williams [20:57]: "I do a ton of research. I make sure there aren't any loose ends or plot holes."
• Tia Williams [15:59]: "It was one of the highlights of my life as a writer."
• Tia Williams [19:59]: "Reese's Book Club pick for June of 2021... gave it a huge boost."
• Tia Williams [36:17]: "Audrey is inspired by her 1000%."
• Tia Williams [47:46]: "You just have to let it be bad and not be hard on yourself because it's never gonna be great the first time."

---

Takeaways:

• Integrated Passions: Tia's ability to balance her career in beauty editing with her writing aspirations highlights the importance of nurturing multiple passions simultaneously.

• Structured Creativity: Adopting a plotter's approach can enhance productivity and provide a roadmap during creative endeavors, especially when facing personal challenges.

• Embracing Imperfection: Accepting imperfect beginnings is crucial for creative growth, allowing for continuous improvement and innovation.

• Leveraging Opportunities: Tia's success underscores the significance of seizing opportunities and leveraging platforms that amplify one's work.

For those looking to follow their creative calling, Tia Williams' journey offers valuable lessons on resilience, strategic planning, and the unwavering pursuit of one's dreams.

Transcript

[Tia Williams]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Host]

All right y'all, it is happening.

[Co-Host]

To celebrate the rebrand from Balance Black.

[Host]

Girl to She's so Lucky.

[Co-Host]

I'm bringing the podcast live to you.

[Host]

We're kicking off this new chapter with.

[Co-Host]

Two incredible live shows featuring some amazing surprise guests. So join us on April 3rd in New York City or on April 5th in Washington DC.

[Host]

These are going to be unforgettable nights filled with fun convos, many major inspiration.

[Co-Host]

And of course the best vibes. Think, community manifestation and all the lucky magic of the pod.

[Host]

But in real life, if you've ever.

[Co-Host]

Wanted to be a part of a.

[Host]

Live recording and connect with like minded.

[Co-Host]

Women irl, this is your chance. Tickets are on sale now, but they won't last long. Grab yours in the description and I cannot wait to see you there. Welcome to the podcast.

[Host]

I am so excited to be sitting down this week with a very special guest who I think is just the epitome of kind of the new era of the podcast. When we talk about creating our own luck, she is absolutely someone who has done that. So if you are a fellow book lover, particularly of romance, you are going to be very excited to hear from today's guest. I am sitting down with the iconic New York times bestselling author, Ms. Tia Williams.

[Co-Host]

You have loved her books like Seven Days in June, the Perfect Find Love.

[Host]

Song for Ricky Wilde. We sit down and we talk about really the ways that she has created her own luck. We talk about her career in beauty, her career as an author, her creative process, how she approaches writing, her advice for getting out of creative plateaus. I mean this episode is just full of so many amazing nuggets of just wisdom and creative goodness from Tia. So let's get into the episode. Tia, welcome to the show.

[Tia Williams]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Host]

I have to say I am a big fan girl and I'm so excited to have you because I love your books and it's just so cool to have you here. I'm.

[Tia Williams]

This is thrilling for me and I also adore this lighting. So I may be here for a couple extra hours.

[Host]

Perfect. Yeah, come, come take content at the space. I, over the past couple years have become a big reader and I really credit seven Days in June with helping me like rediscover my inner reader is what I love to say because I loved reading a lot as a kid and then I got a little older and I think I just like read too many self help books and kind of fell off. I just forgot that fiction was A thing. And I forgot how much I enjoyed it. And then during that week between Christmas and New Year's in 2021, I got a TikTok video where this woman was about seven days in June. And I was like, that's a book. Like, I haven't done that in so long. I have this week to myself. Why don't I read a book? And I loved it. And it just like, re sparked my love for reading.

[Tia Williams]

Oh, my gosh. Like a gateway drug. It was fiction. It was.

[Host]

So I have to thank you in person for that.

[Tia Williams]

You're welcome. I love that I could tear you from self help.

[Host]

Yes, exactly.

[Tia Williams]

No shade to self help.

[Host]

No, it's.

[Tia Williams]

We need it.

[Host]

Yeah. It has its place. But also, fiction is really beautiful. And I think over the past few years has really had this renaissance where a lot of people have had similar experiences to what I described. So it's been fun to see us all come back to it.

[Tia Williams]

Yes. I mean, I have to say I have heard that, you know, I've heard that quite a bit that Seven Days in June particularly was the book that got people out of their reading slump. So that's exciting, that. And I've heard a lot that it was their gateway into romance. Like, people who didn't think that they liked romance read Seven Days. Cause they weren't quite sure from the COVID that that's what it was. And now they're full on Die Hard. You know, this is the trope I like the best. You know, romance fans. So that's cool.

[Host]

Yeah, same. I had never read romance before. I didn't really. Not that I thought that I wouldn't like it. I just hadn't. Hadn't really been exposed to the genre. And it was my gateway to romance, too.

[Tia Williams]

And I love romance now my work here is done.

[Host]

Yeah, I would love to hear about one, your transition into becoming a fiction writer. Because I know that your background was initially in beauty and what that transition was like for you to go from beauty to author.

[Tia Williams]

Well, what's funny is that there was never a transition. I've always done both at the same time. So when I was growing up, it was always very, very clear to me what my path was going to be. I had two obsessions. Fashion magazines was one, I was like eight, nine, 10 years old with subscriptions to Bazaar and Elle and Vogue. And the other was fiction, specifically romance. I knew I was going to be a novelist. And so, you know, my whole life I had. I've been preparing myself for this. So yearbook, staff journalism, you know, on the newspaper, majoring in English and creative writing, all these things. So after I graduated from UVA in 1997, I moved to Brooklyn and I started working in magazines. I don't know if you remember. I don't know how old you are. If you remember ym, which was magazine. Magazine, yes. So I was the beauty editorial assistant there. And I sort of next four years, moved up the masthead different magazines, and I ended up at Glamour as a beauty editor. And I was like, okay, I have this part of my dream down. When am I going to write this book? I'm 24. I'm getting older. You know, what's one to do? I was like, I don't think I have enough material. And then I was dating a very charming, crazy person.

[Co-Host]

Aren't they always?

[Tia Williams]

Yeah, yeah. And my job was nuts. Like, this is the Devil Wears Prada era. So, you know, fashion magazines were a jungle. And so I was like, you know what? I've had it. I put all my clothes in store. I put everything in storage. Quit my job. Don't do this at home. This is a 2001 story where the economy was not so bad and it was possible to leave and get another job quite easily. And broke up with the guy. And I moved to Seville, Spain, where I taught English to Spanish third graders for six months. I was on sabbatical, and while I was there, I rewrote the story of my failed romance, but wrote it so that it was in my favor. So he was like a good guy and there was a happy ending. And when I returned to New York after six months and started working back at magazines, Lucky magazine, I looked over what I had written and realized that was my book. So I published my first novel, the Accidental Diva. It was published in 2004, I believe, and I've been doing both ever since. So, yeah, there was never really a pivot. Three years ago, I finally quit my day job, though. So now I am all author all the time. Which is the dream.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

I love that you were so clear on those dreams so young and that you saw it through.

[Tia Williams]

Oh, yeah, it's. I'm extremely. Eldest daughter, type A. Like, make the list, you know, the to do list with the bullet points. Make sure you. Your life is all set up, you know, And I know that it sounds like, you know, spontaneous to just like, up and move to Spain or, you know, move from Virginia to New York to be a writer. I. I plan everything out, like, to a sea. There was no hole in the plan. Like, yeah, I wish I was more. I wish I had taken more risks. But, yeah, I always knew that this was gonna be my path.

[Host]

That's super relatable, what you said about, like, being an eldest daughter and planning things to a T. I also am and can relate to that a lot.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

I'm curious. You just said you kind of wish you would have taken more risks. What are some of the risks that you would have wanted to take?

[Tia Williams]

Well, I just always. I've never really tried something that I didn't know I'd be great at. Not just good at it, great at it. Like, I. If I'm not getting it, I abandon it. And so I've missed out. I don't know how to ski, you know, like, there's a lot of things I would have tried. Like, I'm scared of what doesn't already feel secure to me. And that's blocked a lot of. I mean, not to be like, it's blocked blessings, but it's blocked blessings, you know, even down to food, I have the palate of a kindergartner because I don't want to try anything. It's not good. It's not a good trait, but it's.

[Host]

Something that I think a lot of us can relate to or even just like being a beginner sometimes can feel so daunting that it's is totally understandable why so many of us do things like we know we can be good at or great at, because there is a lot of comfort in that. So I get it.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah. I don't have time for daunting. Let's go.

[Host]

Yeah, exactly.

[Co-Host]

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[Host]

So I would love to know what drew you to romance in the first place because it sounded like you enjoyed reading romance from a young age. What was your first introduction to romance?

[Tia Williams]

Well, I did. Yeah. So I grew up in the 80s and my mom was a big like, you know, bodice ripper romance fan. Though that is these days, you know, problematic title. But yeah, she had the, the Fabio covers and all of that. And in my parents bedroom she had like piles by the bathtub of paperback romances. And they were always like really swollen because they had soaked up all the steam from the bath. And my sisters and I would steal them and read them and they would always open right up to the sex scene, which was hilarious and you know, we were being naughty, but something spoke to me in them. I mean, they're just such a fantastic escape. And I was fascinated by love and what makes chemistry happen on the page. I was also fascinated by it in movies and tv. Like I loved, you know, Whitley and Dwayne on A Different World. I loved Sam and Diane on Cheers and Maddie and David on Moonlighting. Like I was just, I loved it ever. This is the most 80s conversation right now. But like it was something I think because the books I was naturally inclined to be drawn towards. And it's funny, my favorite genre is horror, hands down to read. But when I sit down to write something, it's. It just comes out as a romance always. Even if I would try to write something scary, it would end up being like a passionate, you know, affair. So I can't get around it. It's just where my mind goes.

[Host]

Just a lover girl.

[Tia Williams]

I'm a lover girl. Yeah.

[Host]

I am realizing that reading romance is helping me like uncover more of my own inner lover girl. But I don't know if I would have tapped into if I didn't read romance.

[Tia Williams]

Oh, really?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tia Williams]

You're not a lover girl?

[Host]

I think I am, but I think it was, like, locked down so far that reading romance has helped me be like, oh, actually, I do like this. Or I do, like, enjoy this. Even if I haven't necessarily experienced a really great romance yet. Because I haven't yet.

[Tia Williams]

You will.

[Host]

Yeah. But like, reading the books is like a fun gateway to.

[Tia Williams]

Yes.

[Host]

You know, be more excited about it.

[Tia Williams]

Totally. Yeah. And they can, you know, there's so many genres and types and different POVs, you know, these days that you can discover what it is that you, you know, what your preferences are, what you like, what you don't like. People are, like, figuring themselves out in every way from reading romance, for sure.

[Host]

I'm curious why you like reading horror. I'm very surprised to hear this.

[Tia Williams]

Oh, it's my favorite. Well, my father was a huge. Is a huge horror person. We have the same birthday. And I don't know, like, from when I was. I remember being five years old and it was like, must see TV. Daddy's watching the Incredible Hulk, which was very early 80s show. And it was like real. It wasn't animation. It was like the guy turns green and I would sit there and watch it with him and I'd be like, oh, you know, I'm such a big girl, because I can take this, you know, like, it's not freaking me out. I don't know. I just love it. I love it. You know, there's not. There's a lot of similarities between horror and romance, if you think about it, because it's like they're both, you know, heightened reality. It's like you get a physical reaction, you know, a rush. Your heart is pounding, you know, you're nervous, you're excited, you know, scared. Falling in love is scary. Outrunning. The horror is exciting, I think. I just. I love that there's like a visceral reaction to both. I don't like sleepy books.

[Host]

Yeah, I could. That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Recently on the show, I had Gabrielle Union on as a guest, and she and I were talking a lot about books as well, because she's a big reader. And I was also talking to her about on screen adaptations of books. So of course we talk about the Perfect Find, which was first a book that you wrote that she helped produce and star in, and it turned into a movie on Netflix. And we were just talking about the process of what that looks like and some of the differences because, like, the ending of the Book is quite different from the ending of the movie, and we talked about why that was. But for you, what is it like to see a story that you created adapted in a new way? What does that feel like?

[Tia Williams]

It's so surreal. It is so surreal. In the case of the Perfect Fine, I wasn't an executive producer or, you know, this was totally the director and the writer's vision, so I totally trusted them. But I wasn't sure what was going to happen when I. You know, when it finally made it to screen and I saw it, and it was thrilling. And it was also. Yeah, I keep saying surreal. It was like, okay, these characters only existed in my mind, and now they're 3D. They're, like, talking and walking and, like, having conversations with each other. And, like, in this world that was previously just in my head, it's wild. I'm still not over it. And the premiere was at the Tribeca Film Festival, and it got. It ended up winning the audience award because the audience was just so in there, you know, laughing, clapping, you know, applauding, cheering like it was. And I'm sitting there in the audience like everyone else, you know, really just watching. Became an entity separate from myself. Yeah, it's. It was one of the highlights of my life as a writer. Definitely.

[Host]

Yeah. It sounds like such a cool experience to see something that you did create in your mind be this living, breathing thing.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

Must be really cool.

[Tia Williams]

It was. And Gabrielle and Keith were so perfect. Keith is so cute. He called me ma'am. It's like, ma'am. When did I become ma'am?

[Host]

But I am ma'am.

[Tia Williams]

This is where I am now, and it's fine.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really cool. And is Seven Days being adapted for screen as well?

[Tia Williams]

For a limited series?

[Host]

Okay, great.

[Tia Williams]

With Amazon, honestly.

[Host]

Good. Because I feel like a movie is just not enough. It's not enough time.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

So we want more.

[Tia Williams]

Of course. Yeah. I think. I think it works well with Seven Days because there's, you know, there's the flashbacks, so there's almost like a dual timeline happening. So the more time we have to discuss, the better.

[Host]

Exactly. And especially with those characters, there's just such a rich backstory with the two of them. I mean, the backstory is the story that. To try to cut that down to 90 minutes would be, I think, really challenging.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. Why do you think that book has been such a big gateway for people, myself included?

[Tia Williams]

I don't know. I've been trying to figure this out. I think maybe because it's Contemporary fiction disguised as romance, or romance disguised as contemporary fiction. I think that people outside of genre lovers can dip a toe in with this book and feel like, I don't know. I say that, but then I'm like, it is the shmoopiest, steamiest. Like, it's not. It is a romance. I don't know. It was Reese's Book Club pick for June of 2021, which was 2020. 2021, which gave it a huge boost. You know, as an author, you can only dream that one of the book clubs will choose your book. You know, Oprah, Jenna Bush, Reese, and the Today. No, Good Morning America. Those are the four. And you hope that they get picked up because these book clubs have massive international followings. I mean, there's some people who only read the books that they are, you know, touting. So. And then there's communities within that community, and. And they. A lot of the book club followers have their own book clubs. And so it just gave me a platform that would have taken me years to reach on my own.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tia Williams]

So I think that was a lot of it. That boost.

[Host]

That makes a lot of sense. And when that happens, I mean, how does that work? Does. Does hello, sunshine call you up and say, hey, we want to pick your book as a. As a book pick, or does it just happen?

[Tia Williams]

Well, they called my editor, and then my editor called me. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing. People don't know. You can't do anything like there. You can't do anything that, like, it truly is. Those clubs pick the books they want. So there's no schmoozing, there's no, hey, Rhys, can I take you to lunch? Like, there's no. None of that.

[Host]

So they have to just love the book and.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

Share it.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah, it has. It's just that. So you just sort of turn it. Turn it over and hope for the best. Yeah.

[Host]

Do you have a specific creative process that you like to follow when you write? Do you let the stories kind of flow as they. As they come? What does that look like for you?

[Tia Williams]

Well, you know, writers are either plotters or pantsers. Have you heard this?

[Host]

No.

[Tia Williams]

If you're a plotter, you plot before you write. So you have an extensive outline. There are no, you know, there's always some surprises, but, like, you know, the beginning, the middle, the end, you know the characters, you know, everything. And then if you're a pantser, you're someone who flies by the seat of your pants. So you sit down with no plan and just go, where the wind takes you, you give it to the Lord. I am a plotter again, type A eldest daughter. I need a plan. So I do a ton of research. I make sure there aren't any loose ends or plot holes. I know what every chapter is, I know who all the characters are. And a lot of that also is that I have a chronic pain condition. I have chronic migraine. I've had it since I was 9 years old. And so I never know when it's going to strike in a way that I can't work through it. And so if I wake up and I'm feeling okay, I just need to write as long as I possibly can. And in order to maximize that time, it is very beneficial to already have a map so you're not wasting time staring off into, you know, the sunset trying to figure out what to write.

[Host]

That makes a lot of sense. And I like to call preparation like that, like helping your future self.

[Tia Williams]

Totally.

[Host]

Because then it's like, you know, if you have a moment where you either can't write or can't do the thing or need to come back to it, it helps so much. I'm sure.

[Tia Williams]

Absolutely. I could not do it without. I can't do anything without a plan. I mean, I do have moments like, where do you want to go for dinner? I don't know, you know, but big life stuff. No.

[Host]

And especially as something I'm sure as.

[Co-Host]

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[Host]

Get through the day.

[Co-Host]

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[Host]

With your first work being kind of a reimagined version of a love story that you had. I'm curious what, how different it feels writing now with new characters, new things as it did then. Or do you still infuse new bits of your life into the books? I mean, I can imagine now hearing you talk about your chronic migraines, I'm like, oh, yeah, Eva also had chronic migraines. So there's like pieces in the stories that you've written more recently. But do you still add pieces of your own life?

[Tia Williams]

I still do, yeah. I still do. I mean. Seven Days in June. Eva, the protagonist, and I have quite a lot in common. We both have Creole mothers, though mine is sane and she always wants me to point that out. Louisiana background from the maternal side. We're single moms of very precocious 12 year old daughters in Brooklyn and we're writers, so we have, you know, wore glasses. And then with Jenna and the perfect find. I too was 40 and had just gotten a divorce and lost my home because I had to sell it after the divorce. And I found myself, you know, out of work and I come from a print world and everything had gone digital and I was, you know, I found a job at a dot com and everyone was half my age and I was lost. And then I dated a very young guy, so, you know, that kind of mimics my life. And then with a love song for Ricky Wilde. This was the first time I had ever written a character who wasn't explicitly me. And I did it on purpose. I wanted to write about someone the opposite of me. Like all of her impulses were things that I would not do. And it was really fun. Like, I've never written a Free Spirit before. And she's just a total literal flower child who, who grows up in a very rigid, aristocratic southern family. And she breaks out of it to open a flower shop in Harlem. You know, all. She doesn't know a soul in Harlem. She has never operated a business before. It's all brand new to her and she's like down for the excitement and the adventure and you know, her choices scare me. Like, girl, like the way I was saying everything is planned out for me. Like it wasn't really planned out for her. But, you know, she was all. She's all about, like defining excellence on her own terms. And she definitely won.

[Host]

She did.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

I feel like I could not shut up about that book all last year because I, I ended up reading it coincidentally the last week of February in 2024.

[Tia Williams]

Oh, wow.

[Host]

Which for those of you who haven't read it yet, that's when the book takes place.

[Tia Williams]

So I was February 2024 reading it.

[Host]

As like the days of the book were happening completely on accident, which was. Made it like extra special the week that I happened to read it. But I also went into it. I think I started reading it without even reading the description. Like I just immediately jumped into it and it just made it so fun and like such a surprise. And I just loved it so, so much.

[Tia Williams]

Thank you.

[Host]

I did not stop talking about it all year. Oh my gosh.

[Tia Williams]

Thank you.

[Host]

But what I. Parts of what I loved about it was were the different elements of it had kind of a little bit of magic in it. It had a little bit of historical fiction in it, but also still woven into a modern story in a way that was just really unique. Like again, it was absolutely a romance, but it didn't feel like a common kind of tropey romance. Which also I do love a trophy romance. If you give me a second chance romance or like an enemies to lovers story, I'mma eat it up. But yes, that's not. That's not really what it was. And so it was just such a like unique, fun read with that. Like, did that feel like a kind of like creative risk for you? Like, what was it like to write something that was such a different take?

[Tia Williams]

So there is. Yeah, there's a little bit of voodoo in it. There's a little bit of leap year magic, which is why it takes. Took. Takes place. Took place, took place in February of 2024. It's a leap month in a leap year. And yeah, it's funny, I didn't set out to like write a book that has a touch of magical realism, but I've always wanted a voodoo curse in a book and that calls for a little bit of magic. So I really just thought of it as a contemporary romance. It's very grounded in modern day, but there's like some seasoning on it. There's just like a sprinkle of, you know, magic dust.

[Host]

Yeah, definitely.

[Tia Williams]

Because the story called for it.

[Host]

Yeah, for sure. I also loved that Harlem was almost more than a setting for that book. Harlem almost felt like a character kind of like past and current day.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

And it was just. It was also like a really nice touch that I enjoyed while I was reading it.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah. So the Ricky Wilde moves to Harlem to open this flower shop. And when she's there, she meets this very Enigmatic musician. And they have this instant connection, but they find out that their lives are already connected in all these ways, and that a scandal that went down during the Harlem Renaissance era in the 1920s is affecting their romance in the modern day. So I have flashback, flashback chapters, the 20s, and I've just always been obsessed with the Harlem Renaissance, but I'm not a historical fiction writer, so this felt like a great way to just sneak in, you know, my obsession. I think there's only three chapters, but, like, I spent so much time just trying to make that world seem real because I just love the glamour and the style and the art and the nights. And everything was so modern for the first time. I mean, we're always in the most modern era. I mean, present day is always the most modern everything has ever been. But, you know, the early 20th century, there were so many technological updates. Like, suddenly there are cars, and women can drive cars. There's buttons on clothes, there's elevators, there's planes. There's, you know, movies, you know, that what the radio is happening, starting to happen. It's. Everything is fast. And black culture ruled the world, really. I mean, not that it. I mean, it always does, but it was the first time it was really recognized as what was moving the needle.

[Host]

Yeah, it was. I loved those. Those elements. Those elements of. It was so fun to read.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah, it was. It was. It's always exciting when your niche interests, like, you get to, you know, explore it, because that's like, one of the things, like, if you corner me at a party, I might have to talk to you about it for four hours, you know, so, yeah, it was really fun.

[Host]

Definitely. You also have a new book coming out.

[Tia Williams]

I do.

[Host]

Young adult book. Yes. Which is fun. Featuring Audrey, who we also met in seven days.

[Tia Williams]

Yes.

[Host]

Can we talk a little bit more about why you wanted to give her her own story and also what it's been like writing ya, Because I would imagine that's pretty different.

[Tia Williams]

It is. So, yeah, in May, my YA novel's coming out. It's a YA rom com called Audrey and Bash are Just Friends. And, yeah, we met Audrey for the first time in seven Days in June. She's the protagonist, the female protagonist's daughter. And in seven days, she was 12 years old. And what I found out once the book, you know, was published was that Audrey is the fan favorite. Everyone loved her, loves her character. She's super funny and, like, very precocious. And more often than not, she's like the wisest person in a room full of Grownups. And she has a therapy side hustle. She's just a funny kid. And so people were just sort of like, we need more Audrey. So in my new book, she's 16. It starts on the last day of junior year. She's the president of the class. She's the cabinet at the debate club. Like, she realizes she's the model teen in every way, but she doesn't know how to have fun, so she hires a local bad boy to teach her how to have fun for the summer.

[Host]

I love that premise. Yeah.

[Tia Williams]

It was so fun. And she is just such a fun and funny character. Multi layered character to return to. And it's also, you know, it's not a proper sequel to Seven Days in June, but I'm saying it's kind of like Seven Days little Sister, because it's in that world. And you find out where Eva and Shane are now and you know, what their lives look like because they're a little family now. Yeah. So it was just. I missed all of them. So it was so much fun to go back to that world.

[Host]

Yeah, you get to bring them back. Did you have any personal inspiration for this book as well?

[Tia Williams]

I did. I have a 16 year old in my house. My daughter Lena. She helped me so much with Audrey. I mean, Audrey is. Was inspired by her 1000%. And to that she's always just like, you're welcome. But yeah, like, she would have her friends come over and I would sit them down and be like, okay, give me the tea. Like, I need to know everything that's happening. Like, you go first. Okay, that's too explicit. All right, now you go like, okay, so what's that? What happened to the girl's bathroom? So, yeah, like, she really helped me with, you know, the details. Because the worst thing is, you know, to write a YA novel and you sound like a Gen Xer trying to inhabit the voice of teenagers, which is like the worst. So it really helped that I had her as inspiration for sure.

[Host]

Straight from the source.

[Tia Williams]

Yes, yes.

[Host]

How they communicate.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

I also feel like, I mean, I'm a millennial, so I guess I'm like that generation in between. But yeah, like Gen Z and even, I guess, kind of older Gen Alpha. They are just like so distinct in how they communicate and see the world and approach things that even just being like a generation older feels very different to me.

[Tia Williams]

It is.

[Host]

You do have to get it straight from the source for them.

[Tia Williams]

Yes, Yes. I mean, I just. My biggest fear was like being cringe, you know, and bringing shame upon my house. So I think I did a good job.

[Co-Host]

Absolutely.

[Host]

I'm excited to read it when it's out.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah, it's cute. I think it's so cute.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

There's nothing worse than feeling off in.

[Co-Host]

Your own body, whether it's bloating, sluggish digestion, or just feeling weighed down when.

[Host]

You'Re trying to go about your day. For me, focusing on gut health has been everything, and one of the best.

[Co-Host]

Things I've done for it is taking seeds DSO1 daily symbiotic I first started taking DSO1 over 5 years ago when I realized my gut needed real support. I wanted something backed by science, something that actually worked in DSO1 delivered. It's not just a probiotic, it's a synbiotic, meaning it has both prebiotics and probiotics to support support gut health, skin health, heart health, and even gut barrier integrity all in just two capsules a day. I noticed a difference.

[Host]

Within a couple of weeks, I was.

[Co-Host]

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[Host]

To fit into my routine.

[Co-Host]

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[Host]

So I want to come back to something that we talked about earlier when we're talking about your career path up to this point. You had mentioned that you went full time as an author three years ago, and I would love to talk more about that and what that was like and what made you decide to finally step full time into authordom. Because I know, as you mentioned, like, that's not a decision to take lightly. So I'm sure a lot of planning and preparation went into that. So I would love to talk more about how that was for you.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah, I mean, you know, authors don't get paid a lot of money. Most of the authors, you know, they're a partner is subsidizing or they have you Know, another job. It's just a really hard way to make, you know, to really make a living, especially in New York. But with the success of Seven Days in June, it finally put me in a place where I didn't really need my day job anymore. And also I was getting these opportunities that I couldn't really capitalize on because I was working full time. So it felt like a huge leap. It was a huge leap. But in order for my author career to really take off the way I wanted it to, I would need to have devoted all my time to it. So, yeah, I had to leave. And it has been the best just focusing on the. Yeah. Making my own schedule and especially, you know, with chronic pain, it's really nice not to have to go be in an office.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

I would imagine for creativity, too. Also just having that flexibility to have your own schedule or for a really long time. I would podcast and create content, like after my corporate job, and I just went full time with this a little over a year ago, but I felt like I was often creating from what was left after being at work all day versus just being able to create without feeling like you're kind of already depleted from using your brain all day. Doing something else has been really helpful for me. Did you have a similar experience?

[Tia Williams]

Yeah. I mean, now I can focus. I'm good at compartmentalizing, so, you know, I was able to focus. Before, it was just effort. It was so much harder. It wasn't impossible. It was just so much harder. And now it's like, the Runway is clear, and I have the space to devote most of my brain to this instead of being caught up in corporate life, which, if it's for you, I love it. But it's tough. I mean, I'd been working for 25 years, so, you know, I put my time in, and the dream of being able to write full time had always been in the back of my mind. It just wasn't a possibility at all. So for me to have the opportunity finally and for all the stars to line in that way. Yeah. Yeah, I had to take it.

[Host]

Yeah. But I also love just getting to hear your perspective of that and you sharing that you were in the corporate spaces for 25 years before you left to do this other dream, full time is also just so, like, inspiring and cool to hear because I think a lot of people feel like if they don't get to do that thing they really want to do immediately or straight out of school or, you know, within the first few years of trying it, that they just get really discouraged.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

And so I love getting to hear stories where it's. It's okay if. If that's not. If it doesn't happen that quickly.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah, absolutely. And if you really love something, just do it too. You know, I've had. I had two jobs and was a single mom that, you know, so if it matters to you, you do it.

[Host]

Exactly.

[Tia Williams]

And people wake up at the crack of dawn to work out. I don't understand it, but I'm obsessed with that drive. Like, how do you get. You get up at five to do what?

[Host]

Guilty. You see, I do. I'm one of those people.

[Tia Williams]

You're one of those people, and it means something to you. And so you. There. There aren't enough hours in the day, so you wake up earlier. Like, you make the time. And so if you're in a corporate job and you're, you know, you have this other dream, like, make the time to work on that.

[Host]

Yeah. Are there any things that help you recharge, particularly from a creative standpoint? Like, if you're running into a creative block or just, like, maybe a little bit of a creative rut, what helps you get out of it?

[Tia Williams]

I take in other media, movies, tv. I reach back in time, you know, and I'm a big, like, old Hollywood head. So, you know, I sometimes I just need to get out of a 20, 25 space and go to the 70s or the 40s or the 80s. Inspiration comes from odd places, you know, some authors, like, go, people watch, and that helps them, you know, Others listen to music. For me, it really is like, movies and memoirs. I feel like reading memoirs and biographies. Like, you get window. Like a window into a person you don't know, which is so great with character building. Like, you learn why this person was motivated to do the things that they did and what their background is like and why that informs who they are, you know, all of those things. And it just sparks so much in my head in terms of character and plot. So that helps.

[Host]

Yeah, I love that. I feel like so much of creativity comes from living and not necessarily from, like, just trying to force it. Need experiences to draw from.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like writer's block is your body telling you that you this ain't it right now. Like, instead of trying to power through it, you need to get up and go somewhere or do something else, you know, take a break, and then you come back and it's always refreshed.

[Co-Host]

Always.

[Host]

Yeah. I also find when I'm trying to be creative and might Be struggling a little bit. Some of my biggest blocks come from trying to be good straight out of the gate. And one of, like, the hardest lessons in life that I feel like I'm still constantly learning as, like, kind of a type A. I consider myself more type A minus, but, like, type A minus eldest daughter person is like, to start, create something and then make it better, which is, like, my really hardheaded lesson that I have to continuously learn.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

What is that like for you? Also, as somebody who is, like, very driven to do things well, do you ever let yourself be bad?

[Tia Williams]

Oh, yeah. You have to. There is no other way to write. I mean, there is a. It's, you know, colloquially known is that is the shitty first draft. Like, everyone knows it's a shitty first. It has to be like, you don't know what you're talking about yet. First draft is to tell yourself the story. So you just have to get it out on the page, because you can't fix a blank page, you know, so you need something to fix, something to build from. And one of the hardest things to do as a writer is to not edit as you go. You can't. You just have to get it all down and keep it moving, or else it's never gonna come out. And, yeah, that one took me 20 years. That's what will trip you up. Being so concerned about writing poorly, like, allowing yourself the freedom to write poorly opens doors that you would not imagine, truly. You just have to let it go and not be hard on yourself because it's never gonna be great the first time.

[Host]

It just isn't so freeing. Yeah, it actually kind of reminds me, I've talked about this so much on the podcast, so people who listen to the podcast a lot, they're gonna be sick of me bringing this up. But it's an analogy that works, I think, a lot about Beyonce and how she talks about rehearsal, which it sounds like is kind of her version of that for her craft. Someone who's not necessarily a writer, who isn't doing, like, a shitty first draft, but, like, the rehearsal is a shitty first draft. And then as you rehearse, that's where it gets better. And, like, really putting in those reps, which we have so much resistance to. I know I do. But that's really where the magic happens.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah. You can't get around it. You absolutely cannot. The only way through it is through it. And it's hard, you know, especially for a perfectionist. And when you have the story in your head and it is just not looking like that on the page. Getting it from your head to the page, like, it gets all messed up. It's frustrating, but you just, again, you just have to let it be bad.

[Host]

A lesson we're all learning.

[Tia Williams]

Yes. Yes. My daughter is an artist and, you know, she gets so fresh. She's only 16, so she's still. You know, it drives her crazy when what she's seeing doesn't come out on her canvas. You know, she wants to give up. She wants to. You know, that's a really tough lesson that you've. How are you gonna know what it's supposed to look like if there's nothing there? You know, you have to start somewhere.

[Host]

There's nothing more just like discouraging or difficult to get through than like a blank page staring at you.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah, it really is tough. But if you just think about the fact that the greats did the same thing, you know, I mean, I think about the fact that Toni Morrison wrote Was it Song of Solomon? All on the train, handwritten in pencil, going back and forth to her. Her corporate job, you know, at Doubleday. I think she was at Doubleday. A book publisher. Think of how bad that draft was on the subway in pencil. She had three teenage boys at home. Like, imagine how scattered it must have been. You have to do it, though.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Ugh. I love that so much.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah.

[Host]

So, Tia, are there any things that you are just currently looking forward to personally, professionally? We're still pretty early in 2025.

[Tia Williams]

I know yesterday my daughter was like, what happened to our workout journeys? So I am. I do need to. I. I'm trying to get into strength training. It remains to be seen when I'm. Cause the problem is, like, when I have a break, I just want to lay down, I want to sit down. I don't want. My apartment is so cozy. I'm good. Maybe I need to be a little uncomfortable at home, but, like, I don't want to go anywhere. I don't want to do anything.

[Host]

And it's cold outside.

[Co-Host]

Real.

[Tia Williams]

And like, I just came off of a month long tour where I had like maybe two or three small breaks. So when I'm home, I want to be home. I don't want to do strength training. I don't want to sweat, I don't want to be uncomfortable. So I need to work on that. That I'm looking forward to figuring out. That like my fitness journey.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Let's chat. I used to be a trainer.

[Co-Host]

We can chat.

[Host]

Oh, really? That's my.

[Co-Host]

That's my jam.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Tia Williams]

I don't know how to motivate myself at all. It's terrible. And nobody's getting any younger.

[Host]

I get it. I get it. Yeah. It's all about just, like, routine and learning how to do it on autopilot.

[Tia Williams]

That's it. I'm not there. There's always a sexier thing to be doing than that. So that. And I'm looking forward to the summer.

[Co-Host]

Yes.

[Host]

Summer is always the best.

[Tia Williams]

Yeah. Yeah. So. And I'm looking forward to my Audrey and Bash Are Just Friends launching in May.

[Host]

Yes. Exciting, amazing things. We'll make sure that we link to it in the show notes so everyone can check it out.

[Tia Williams]

Oh, great.

[Host]

Yes. Tia, thank you so much for joining me. This was such a fun conversation.

[Tia Williams]

So much fun. I loved it. Thank you for having me.

[Host]

Yes. Well, and I'm also so inspired. Makes me want to go. Go home and, like, write a shitty first draft of something.

[Tia Williams]

Write your shitty first draft. I will figure out my strength training.

[Host]

Perfect.

[Co-Host]

We can help each other.

[Host]

I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Tia as much as I did. We chatted about being Leos off camera, which, if you can tell, we really brought the big Leo energy in that episode. But she is just so vibrant, so cool. It was really amazing to get to sit down and hear from the woman behind some of my favorite books. And I know so many of you love her books as well. So we will link her latest book in the show notes so that you can check out when it releases this May. And also, please make sure that if you enjoy the show that you are subscribed. Now that we have our new name, our new branding, we really would love to have you along for the ride. So subscribe so that you don't miss an episode. And if you enjoyed this conversation, please.

[Co-Host]

Leave us a rating and review. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week.

[Tia Williams]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.