← She's So Lucky
She's So Lucky
How to Know When It’s Time to Leave—Your Job, Your Partner, or Your Old Self with Nicole Walters
00:57:50
Loading summary
Transcript224 lines
- [00:01]
Les
The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Real quick.
- [00:05]
Podcast Announcer
Before we get into the episode, I had to let you know that the Lucky Girl fall merch line just dropped. It's cozy, it's cute, it's just for the clovers. We've got our Lucky Girl tea. We have our Clover Crew neck, the perfect Lucky Girl mug for all your morning beverages, and a tote that holds literally everything. You can check out the collection now@shop.dearlymedia.com or head to the Show Notes. If you're feeling lucky, this collection is just for you.
- [00:42]
Les
Welcome back to she's so Lucky, the podcast all about ways we create our own luck. My name is Les. I'm your host, and I am very excited to welcome back a special guest who actually had on the podcast two years ago. However, I have known her, followed her, loved her from afar for many years, and I'm so excited to have her back. So please join me in welcoming back Nicole Walters.
- [01:02]
Nicole Walters
Hello, Les. I'm glad to be here.
- [01:04]
Les
I'm so happy to have you back. It's been exactly two years since our last episode.
- [01:07]
Nicole Walters
No, like to the day Almost.
- [01:09]
Les
We recorded in September 2023 and released October 2023, which is what we're going to do today.
- [01:16]
Nicole Walters
Girl, my life is a whirlwind. So much has happened since then. Holy cannoli.
- [01:19]
Les
So just as a quick Cliff Notes for people who are maybe catching up of what has happened for you in the past two years, released a New York Times bestselling memoir. You got remarried.
- [01:29]
Nicole Walters
I did. I was nominated for an Emmy. And nominated for an Emmy award.
- [01:32]
Les
Amazing. And the Lacey P. Award. Had a beautiful baby girl.
- [01:35]
Nicole Walters
Had a baby girl. Yep. Got divorced. Like, it was finalized.
- [01:37]
Les
Yes. You have continued running an incredible business, leaning into every pivot, meeting every moment as needed.
- [01:44]
Nicole Walters
Yes. Rebranded the podcast.
- [01:45]
Les
Rebranded your podcast.
- [01:47]
Nicole Walters
Gave up wigs for a little while, shifted to braids, went back to wigs. Had had a couple of skirmishes with my eyebrow girl. But, you know, we're back to fullness again.
- [01:55]
Les
I mean, and people who know eyebrows are important to you.
- [01:58]
Nicole Walters
Not just important. They are like a defining characteristic around trust for me. So, like, think about this. If someone has bad eyebrows, they're not doing your taxes, they're not watching your kids, they're not doing anything. I honestly, I don't even think I let them make a sandwich for me. Like, there is. It's a very serious relationship. So, yeah, it's been a lot. It's been a lot.
- [02:16]
Les
A busy two years.
- [02:17]
Nicole Walters
I'm hoping the next Two years are still filled with accomplishments and growth, but, man, if they're a little quieter, that'd be all right.
- [02:23]
Les
Absolutely.
- [02:24]
Nicole Walters
There's enough happening in the world. Yeah.
- [02:26]
Les
Yeah.
- [02:26]
Nicole Walters
Well.
- [02:27]
Les
And, you know, in our last conversation, it was right before your book was coming out, which I. When I think of that era for you, because I'm defining your eras now.
- [02:36]
Nicole Walters
Listen. No, it was the era. It was the book era. Like, I don't know.
- [02:39]
Les
Nothing is missing.
- [02:40]
Nicole Walters
Nothing is missing era.
- [02:41]
Les
And while I am sure still nothing is missing. How would you define the season that you're currently in, in different words?
- [02:48]
Nicole Walters
Oh, gosh, I think it's a season of surrender. Yeah, I think that would be the error, I would call it. I. I am learning even more about what it looks like to let life. Life. And allow myself to be responsive to it in some respects, you know, but also to be just okay with things being as they are. Whatever they will, will be. And I think anyone who has a kid understands that.
- [03:14]
Les
How do you differentiate between being responsive and being reactive?
- [03:19]
Nicole Walters
So I think being responsive is kind of pulling from your bag of preparation, you know, So I know what my attributes are. I know what I do well in, and I plan accordingly to make sure that whatever's coming at me is something that isn't hopefully too left field. Being reactive is when you. You've done zero preparation, where it's just like, life is just going on around you and you're just kind of like, oh, I didn't know. Oh, I didn't know. No, like, I have some structure. Like, what is it? We were talking about this a little bit offline because we're friends in life, you know, about how the kids say, have a strict program or a strict protocol or whatever. Strict program with their dating. You know, like, I have a. A program. It's not strict, but I have a program. Okay. You know, so I generally know the bullet points I want to hit in life. And so if something happened, being responsive is okay. I kind of knew this thing was coming. It may not look the way I thought it would. Let me pull from my bag and respond to it, versus I had no idea this was coming. I don't know what this is. Do I even have anything in my bag? We're not doing that anymore.
- [04:14]
Les
I like that distinction. Like, rising to the occasion instead of just being like, you know, yeah, nobody.
- [04:20]
Nicole Walters
Had time for that.
- [04:21]
Les
Right, Right. So I want to talk about your platform and some of the ways that you use it differently.
- [04:28]
Nicole Walters
Things have evolved.
- [04:29]
Les
Things have evolved. Things have evolved. I mean, honestly, from the beginning of it. And I know. I think we mentioned this in the last episode that we did. Like, I was one of the 10,000 people watching live when you quit your job a decade ago.
- [04:40]
Nicole Walters
So bananas. Just. It's bananas because we are on the same podcast network. It's also just a test testament, I think, to the fact that I really am a believer that there is nothing that would be denied for us. And I feel like everyone deserves all the things. So when I meet people who were there that day, oftentimes I'm like, well, where are you now? Because you should be sitting next to me. Right. If this is indeed what you desire. You know what I mean? Like, if you're like, oh, I was so inspired that day and I wanted to jump in onto a babe. That day was 10 years ago. Like, what did you do in 10 years? Because I have wrecked my marriage and remarried. Okay, so what have you been doing? You know what I mean? Like, what have you been doing? And it's just exciting. Like, I'm so glad, you know, that we're still here together. And now we're on the same network and we hang out. Like, this is good.
- [05:25]
Les
It was such a full circle moment. Because I remember 10 years ago watching you do that, wishing so badly that I could do the same and quit my job. And then fast forward, what, eight years later, when I did quit my job, you were the first person I texted and told.
- [05:37]
Nicole Walters
Oh, my God.
- [05:38]
Les
Because you had, like, really encouraged me to do it.
- [05:40]
Nicole Walters
But you did. You could, you can. And it's so fun to watch you operate in your fullest self now. Because, girl, you were also at capacity. I mean, the way those opportunities were coming in. But, like, some of the interviews and opportunities you've managed to score since then, it's because you literally had widened yourself up where you have the flexibility to say, I don't have a place to clock in. What works for you, because I'mma be there. And this is just the beginning.
- [06:03]
Les
Yeah.
- [06:03]
Nicole Walters
Can you imagine if this is where you are now, where you're going to be in another eight years? Crazy.
- [06:08]
Les
I'm excited to see.
- [06:09]
Nicole Walters
Yeah. Don't start acting funny. I'm just saying. I'm just saying.
- [06:13]
Les
I know, but, yeah, I just.
- [06:14]
Nicole Walters
I always, like, record. Yes. To be like, when you get your keys to your yacht, don't act weird. When I'm like, remember, I was the first person you texted. Let me get those. You don't even use it on Tuesday.
- [06:23]
Les
Of course you can use it anytime.
- [06:26]
Nicole Walters
Anytime on record. Everybody on Record.
- [06:30]
Les
The ways that you use your platform are very different. And I want to go back and I want to talk about what that moment was when you decided, I'm going to start speaking a little bit differently and I'm going to be more honest about my views, what I believe in, and having the conversations that you want to have.
- [06:47]
Nicole Walters
So I guess I'll take people back to move forward. You know, when I first came on social media, you know, without aging myself, I was one of the first 14 schools on Facebook. So, you know, I remember when social media was mostly people you do, you know, that you're interacting with. And it was this fun, playful place where we're all kind of discovering together. A lot of that shifted around 2020, you know, where everyone is kind of forced on social media as the primary way to create community and a space and engage that we didn't have before. And so that also meant that everyone was there. Kind of like, you know, you have your curated Thanksgiving where you invite the people you want, your friends, and then you have the Thanksgiving that you went to, where you can see it was just like open invite, and you're like, oh, girl, I would have never, you know that it's why we asked the signature question within the black community of who all going to be there? Right? The who all going to be there went out the window in 2020 for social. It just, it felt warmer, you know, and then it became a place where I think it's primarily people are like, this is my megaphone and I will do and say what I will. And then obviously, political leanings, political spins, the administration, you know, all of that. And I think I've always been very clear on my platform about where I stand, you know, like in terms of black women all day, every day, without question, you know, go yell at your mother about it. You know, I'm not the one. I am completely in support of marginalized people in every single capacity. If you have a problem with it, ask somebody else. You know, and above all else, I care about children. I care about family, and that's everywhere. In Gaza, in my backyard, in my own home, you know, so if someone wants to look at me in the face and say, you don't care about kids, talk to somebody who didn't adopt kids, also give birth to kids, also advocate for children. Like, if you've done more than I have in relation to actually saving kids before words, then we can get into it. So having lived my life that way, I realized that my platform felt a little self serving in an Age where I think that action needs to happen in support of our values. And just sharing my life and funny hijinks and stuff brings joy to people. And I, like, still doing that. But at the end of the day, you know, God gave me a megaphone and I wanted to use it well. And so I started using it well. And I guess the question was that big pivot moment. I gave birth to a baby unmedicated, and I turned 40. Like, who gives a fuck after that, right?
- [09:01]
Les
You know, like, that does not radicalize you.
- [09:02]
Nicole Walters
That is. You know what I mean? Like, that is literally it. Like, you and I did not choose to give birth to a baby unmedicated, for the record. You know what I mean? It was like I went in there prepped, and that epidural failed, which can happen. So once that happened, I was like, oh, like, bring it. You know, and then you go through a divorce. You know, your. My divorce wasn't clean. It took four years and it was messy. Like, it can be whatever. And I think that, like, a lot of people don't realize that when you stop caring in that way, you know, and it's getting worse. Like, I am increasingly more deficient every day. Like, I mean, they. There is a dearth of. Within my home. You know what I mean? Like, I cannot find them. Like, I look in cabinets, I look in closets. You know, I've checked my. I have a Tesla, the. The Frunk. You know, it's like a front trunk. I've looked there. No fucks there either. Like, I cannot find them. And so because of that, I'm truly in a place in my life where, you know, I don't. I think people think that your reputation matters to you a lot when you're on social, or they think money matters a lot when you have it, you know, and what they don't realize is, like, no, like, I care that my kids know exactly where I stand, that I did the best I could on this planet. And, you know, if someone wants to come for me for having those values of trying to make the world better in general for everybody involved, like, they can bring it. Like, it's whatever. Let's go to toe to toe. And that's how I'm using my platform now.
- [10:19]
Les
Period.
- [10:22]
Nicole Walters
Period.
- [10:23]
Les
I remember last year during the election time frame, just some of the conversations that you were willing to have with people. And I remember seeing that and being like, wow. And I think I DM'd you this. Like, you have the patience of a saint. I believe that's exactly what I said.
- [10:37]
Nicole Walters
I don't have the patience. I cuss.
- [10:38]
Les
You know, you were so patient and kind in how you were having conversations with people who had different points of view. Some of the conversations that you were willing to have. I know I do not yet.
- [10:50]
Nicole Walters
Oh for sure.
- [10:50]
Les
I'm not there yet where I'm willing to like engage yet and have the patience to really help educate people. And I remember seeing that and being so like having so much admiration for your willingness and to do that.
- [11:04]
Nicole Walters
I was baptized. No kidding. I wasn't always.
- [11:08]
Les
Still.
- [11:09]
Nicole Walters
I know I wasn't always saved. No, I think what it is is I, I have a very diverse background in general. We always joke that it's like the united nation of homes, you know, like, I'm married to a white guy. You know, I was Jewish, like full on conversion, dipped in a mikvah, you know, I'm baptized a Christian and a practicing follower of Jesus. You know, kind of always was, you know, but tried the Jewish thing, didn't kind of work out. You know, like a child of African immigrants, first generation, lived in Ghana for a while. Like I really have went to private school, grew up super poor, been the 1%. Like, it's easy for me to get into a room and find some familiarity with just about anybody. It right down to favorite foods or hobbies or TV shows. And so a lot of times when I'm able to speak to people who have differing opinions or different views, I can see how they got there, you know, Like, I can understand what informed that thought process without overly personalizing it for myself. And now does that mean that I hold space or pander to people who are just flat out racist or bigoted or are intent on hurting and harming and can't see the value in human lives? Hell no. I'll say that on my page too. Like, this is the management. If you can't come and be respectful and if you aren't coming from a place to learn and instead you just want to argue, go somewhere else. Go argue by yourself. I say it also on social. I have no desire to even change the minds of 74 million people who voted differently than I did. Like, you could keep your guy. Like, be excited about your guy. Yeah. Like, listen, he's all like, you can have him. You know what I mean? Like, and you have your reasons, whatever. So like, and if your guy won, like, why are you even in my DMs? Like, don't argue, like, enjoy your guy. But the 90 million people that were unsure on the fence didn't show up that maybe are saying to themselves, I really didn't understand what was going on. Let's talk, let's talk about what your concerns are. And I'm here and willing and, and able. I mean, all I need is 5 million, y', all, and that'll be it. You know what I mean? So I'll take my chances. I like my odds on that. So, yeah, conversation is important and I have. It's not patience, but I do have understanding. It's just not personal. People can feel and think whatever they want to think. It doesn't mean anything about me or my family. That's your stuff, not mine.
- [13:21]
Les
True. So true.
- [13:23]
Nicole Walters
It's that grace part of it, you know, like. And also a lot of stuff, like real talk. Some people just aren't smart. Like, it sounds mean and not being smart isn't, you know, some of it is obviously nature, like how you're born. But some people also, they haven't had opportunity to know as much or read as much or access so, you know, patience for that as well.
- [13:41]
Les
Or not even in a pretentious way, because I do think there is a lot of anti intellectualism that we're seeing and that is a big part of the problem. But I do think in a lot of ways something like critical thinking, decision making, these are muscles that a lot of people have not been able to strengthen because the systems are designed so that people don't strengthen that muscle and they're easier to manipulate.
- [14:00]
Nicole Walters
Absolutely. And it's also not being encouraged in a lot of environments like schooling, education, social media to flex that muscle. I just have a lot of empathy for that as well. If you aren't someone who's been exposed to or had critical thinking nurtured for you, it may be difficult for you to understand sort of a wider level of thinking. And if anything, that's the thing. I think you probably witnessed me trying to encourage more than anything. I don't need to condemn you, I don't need to diminish you. I don't need to act like an elitist because I'm educated, you know, and try to like outsmart you in conversation. Let me meet you where you are and if there's something I can expose you to that you're not familiar with, I'm happy to do that, you know, and if it didn't work or if you don't like it or if you're not interested or maybe there's something I need to learn, so be it, you know, but otherwise, like, I'm still Going home at the end of the day, like, my passport's still good, I'm still African, I don't have to be here. So it is what it is. But I do look, I love my country, you know, I believe truly that we will have elections again. I believe in our ability, you know, and the vast majority of people, I believe, are compassionate, empathetic, desiring to live in a diverse society, excited about the progression we've made, and want us to all be able to live in unity in a non divisive environment. And I'm willing to dedicate everything I have and put all my bets on that, and put all my bets on blacks, period.
- [15:24]
Podcast Announcer
You ever have a moment when someone asks, how are you? And you automatically just say, I'm good, but you don't really feel good. At some point, I decided I actually want to mean it when I say I'm good. And a big part of that shift for me has been Headspace. Headspace is the app that's helped me and millions of others build a better relationship with our mental health. For me, their daily meditations are a non negotiable part of my morning routine. Even five minutes can shift how I move through the rest of my day. They offer guided meditations, breathing exercises, and mindfulness practices for pretty much every mood and moment. And the best part is it never feels one size fits all. Whether I'm feeling a little anxious, need help winding down, or just want to feel more grounded, there's something in Headspace that meets me right where I'm at. Plus, when time is tight, they have these quick on the go sessions that are surprisingly effective. Like how did three minutes just change my entire energy? Kind of effective. It's all backed by science, taught by experienced teachers, and honestly just makes you feel good and not in a performative, look at me meditating way, but in a real supportive, sustainable way. Feel good and mean it when you say it. For a limited time. Get headspace free for 60 days. Go to headspace.com so lucky. That's H E A D S P-A C E.com so lucky S O-L-C K Y to unlock all of headspace free for 60 days. Headspace.com so lucky.
- [17:05]
Les
I also want to talk about how that has translated to your podcast because you, you had a bit of a rebrand. This is the year of the rebrand.
- [17:11]
Nicole Walters
I know, Listen, when I sat down in this chair, I said, I know she's gonna start some stuff. So here we go. Because it's funny, because I'VE I haven't done a lot of interviews, you know, like, since then, so it's like people haven't asked about it outside of. On social, you know. So, yeah, here we go. You're lucky, my friend. Otherwise I would even be doing all this. Thank you.
- [17:29]
Les
I'm very grateful. I'm grateful to be getting the insights.
- [17:31]
Nicole Walters
You got me outside.
- [17:32]
Les
Yes, I did. You had a bit of a pivot because your show was previously the Nicole Walters Show. You rebranded earlier this year to Tell Me More, and so I would love to hear more about what inspired you to make that change and to tell Tell Me More, no pun intended, about why that title, that phrase, leaning into that, is so important to you.
- [17:52]
Nicole Walters
So Tell Me More is a phrase that I actually use with my kids, and it's a phrase that I use often in parenting, in relationships, everything. And I found that it's a phrase that allows you, no matter what the person has said or expressed, to leave it open for them to be and show up however they are. And you're always. I'm often surprised by what they say. So when you have teenage children, they will come in and say some crazy shit to you. Like, they will into a room and be like, oh, yeah, like, so my. One of my daughters, you know, the other day was like, yeah, I'm thinking about moving to Vegas with some guy. You see the face that you just made and y' all heard. I'm. I'm pretty sure, especially if there are black women who are listening, that you heard the face that I just made, right? Like, it's, you know, and the response, you know, when you have teenage girls, especially increasingly with Gen Z, with Gen Alpha, they are looking for a certain style of parenting, even if it still leads them in the same direction. They're not looking for you to be combative. They're not looking for you to be like, don't do that. You know, so Tell Me More has been that phrase where I'm like, well, can you tell me more about that? And it also encourages critical thinking because they're expecting a response. And when you just say, tell me more, expand, it forces them to say, well, this is what I want to do, and here's what this looks like. And before you know it, you know, sometimes you're leading them to water and they can drink on their own, you know, and so that was the point of the podcast. I think there are a lot of podcasts out there that are telling you what to think. They're saying, I need you to meet this person. Because this person is going to change your whole life. And what you think about, you know, this and what you're thinking is wrong. There's just so much fear mongering that I think happens for financial reasons, for grifters, for people who are interested in, you know, pushing their own agenda for whatever reason. And I think that happens on both sides, by the way. You know, I think that emotion is one of the things that leads the most clicks and the most cash, but there isn't enough genuine, authentic exposure to ideas. Almost like philosophically, like how they used to gather in the town square and just talk, think, you know, like, I don't know where they were doing that, but I heard, you know, it was.
- [19:54]
Les
The thing that happened, right?
- [19:55]
Nicole Walters
It used to happen, you know, and so what I hope, you know, with my podcast is that I get to introduce you to people who can tell you more about their existence, and you can take that and do with it what you will. So please listen, click, do not fast forward through my stuff.
- [20:10]
Les
Use the code.
- [20:10]
Nicole Walters
Use the code. You know, go to the website, you know, even send an email if you really want to and say, you know what? I didn't buy anything, but I love listening to ads. Ads sell more of them. Like, please, I like Bunny. Right? Like, I'm very upfront in that. But also know that, like, my content's not swayed. I just close all of it. Like, even when I ran Harris ads on my podcast last. Was it last year?
- [20:30]
Les
God, it feels like I do, too.
- [20:31]
Nicole Walters
Yeah, it feels like a million miles ago.
- [20:34]
Les
I mean, a lot happened.
- [20:35]
Nicole Walters
A lot's happened. But when I ran ads for Harris, I did a whole episode where I said, hey, I know some of you are not going to vote this way, but I want you to know this is what I'm doing.
- [20:43]
Les
What was the response to that, like, when you did that episode?
- [20:46]
Nicole Walters
So it was weird. I had a lot of people who said, and I'm really glad that you did this. Like, especially people who vote more conservatively. They were like, thank you for just being upfront about that. Either I will choose to skip the episode or I will choose to fast forward. But I also had some people who said, you typically don't talk about politics, and this feels uncomfortable. And I was like, well, I gave you the warning that politics were coming, you could opt out, and you retain that autonomy. So there's always gonna be someone who doesn't like what you do. But overall, I think it was actually really affirmative. And I still have people in my DMs regularly who are conservative, who say, I like being here because you don't make me feel bad about having my views per se, but I am learning and evolving in my views because I realize maybe I'm more purple than I am red or blue. And I. And like I said, 90 million people who were right in the middle. That's who I'm trying to talk to. Yeah.
- [21:36]
Les
And there's also a part of me that is like, wow, I wish more people cared more about the well being of others in society than they do about whether or not something hurts their feelings.
- [21:45]
Nicole Walters
Oh, listen, the individualism right now of people being like me, me, me is crazy. And I don't know, maybe it's because African culture is community based, you know, at its core. So there's no hungry child in our town because that's an embarrassment on the entire village. Right. You know, I think that as long as there's food, right, like, you know, it's just that nuts. So I think maybe that's just how I grew up. Maybe it's enmeshed in my DNA. I do feel like that is very much the way of black women. And in are always trying to fix someone's crown, get someone, you know, together. I've had black women who don't know me being like, oh, sis, like your lace front slipping. I wish more of that was infused in others, you know, but sometimes I think that in the sharing of what we've accomplished, what we've done, where we are, our standpoints, it's my hope that people realize it's also not that hard.
- [22:32]
Les
After you rebranded to Tell me More, you did a solo and you said that you didn't want to show up as a sanitized version of yourself. I would love to talk more about what that means. What was the sanitized version of yourself and how is that different from how.
- [22:46]
Podcast Announcer
You'Re showing up now?
- [22:46]
Nicole Walters
Sure. Well, I get like feedback all the time. Right. Like unfortunately, the DMs are open and I also manage my own social right. Like, so I've for like 12 plus years. I'm always the person who's on there and I've gotten feedback where people are like, you only date white men and you like, you know, this thing and are you a conservative? Just because people identify so many things as being like, before I married my ex husband, I dated almost exclusively black men. But people didn't see that. So they didn't know that on the Internet. I wasn't on the Internet, you know, or I, you know, am very vocal about My Christian faith and the fact that I follow Jesus and I practice, you know, Christianity as Jesus did, you know, not perfectly, though. I wish, you know, but that's my belief system. So people are like, oh, then you must be a believer of these sort of political values, you know what I mean, that are more Christian nationalist, you know, and it's like, nah, you know what I mean? That's not, you know, I do believe that the children in Gaza deserve food and care and love, and actually, all the people in Gaza deserve that. But, you know, especially little, sweet, vulnerable babies, you know, and that is common sense to me, and that is an identification with what Jesus says. And I do believe that no matter who you sleep with, you know, at night and what their gender is or how they identify, that you still are valued, loved, protected, and deserve all the rights of any other human. Like, these things are. The rules of Earth are totally different, you know, from the rules of heaven, you know, and so I think that people made a lot of assumptions, and I realized that one, assumptions are not my responsibility. Whenever you're a creator on the Internet, that's going to happen, right? But if those assumptions are being played into, you know, if people are making those, because I have not been clear. Oh, let me be clear, because if you're going to hate me, hate me for the real reason. You know what I mean? Like, hate me because I said that I absolutely believe that, you know, a child deserves to be saved and protected. And if you hate me for that, that's cool. If you hate me because I said that if someone is homosexual, they still deserve love, care, rights, you know, peace and to feel comfortable in their bodies and in their homes. Then let me deal with that, with my Christ. Let me go up to God and say, oh, man, I was wrong. I was wrong like you, you were right. You said they should burn in hell. Oops, I guess I got that wrong and I defaulted to love, you know, my bad. Like, let me deal with that, you know what I mean? But if you're gonna hate me, let it be for that. Hate me all the way. Unfollow for the right reason. Don't unfollow because you thought something else, you know, and that's. That's why the rebrand happened. Let me clear out my follower list. Let me have followers of two. My mom, my man. Let me have them two followers and I'll keep doing content, you know what I mean? And it is what it is. Yeah, but people are still there, so.
- [25:25]
Les
I'm grateful and it attracts the Right, people.
- [25:27]
Nicole Walters
And it also attracts the wrong people you can hate. Follow, too. Listen, those clicks still pay.
- [25:31]
Les
Engagement is okay.
- [25:32]
Nicole Walters
Follow all day. Because I always joke, I'm like, look, if it ever gets bad enough, the tell all is gonna be crazy because unhinged, okay? Like, let me lose everything and I am going to town. Okay? It will be. People will be like, wow, like, we had no idea. There's so much I don't say.
- [25:50]
Les
And how has it felt to show up up as the not sanitized version of yourself?
- [25:54]
Nicole Walters
I'm still sanitized. Right? Like, I still have kids. You know what I mean? Like, I would say, like, what I am is I'm giving cranberry vodka, not straight shots.
- [26:02]
Les
Okay.
- [26:02]
Nicole Walters
You know what I mean? Like, where before it might have felt a little mocktail or a little, like, wine cooler, you know, so. So, yeah, so, I mean, there's still some. Some tempering of what I say. Like, for instance, I don't disclose so much of what happened in my marriage, and I don't do that because I have kids who deserve. And I don't disclose a lot of, like, certain parenting things we do because some of that's my kid's story. You know, I mean, there is a version of me that is filtered because no one is entitled to every single aspect of my life. And I think that just for the black women listening who've ever considered content creation or having a podcast or writing a book or being a speaker, you know, part of why I think people infuse that fear in us is because they always say, like, don't expose yourself. What if you get beat up? What if, you know, people come after you? What if people are in the comments and you see that happening to me, you see that happening to others, you see that. It's like, man, if they could do it to her, they could do it to this, whatever. I just want to let you know they're going to do that no matter what, and they're doing that to you. Now. You're. It's happening at your workplace, it's happening with your friends. It's happening all the time. It's happening in your marriage. Like, you know, people. People are going to come for you no matter what. So at least make some noise and create some change while you do it. And so that's what I'm trying to do. Like, it's not perfect, but, you know, I'm willing to learn and live out loud.
- [27:15]
Les
And it's real.
- [27:16]
Nicole Walters
It's real.
- [27:16]
Les
And it's like, it's Real.
- [27:17]
Nicole Walters
It's as real as it's going to be. You know what I mean? But I also don't give everybody everything. Like, no. Like, people don't know what me and my man did the other day. Okay. It's not a business.
- [27:24]
Les
No. And it's also like, the Internet can only see a percentage of a fraction.
- [27:28]
Nicole Walters
Literally. Like, you can't capture all of the things, you know? And that's the part people will judge 100 on your life, of your life, on the 10% they see. So when I tell you, people are not seeing my whole life at all, but they are making complete judgments. People can make complete judgments on my marriage and, like, my divorce and my childbearing and all of these things. Like, I think one of the things that came into my DMs at once was someone was like, did you really get pregnant at, like, at 39, like, at 40, you know, and have a baby? I was like, yeah. They're like, just find it really hard to believe because it's just so difficult, and I've had so many challenges. And I was like, I'm really sorry, but, yes, I did. You know, they're like, how do we know you didn't secretly go through ivf? I mean, you don't, but, like, I don't. I'm out here lying about conception.
- [28:15]
Les
What now?
- [28:16]
Nicole Walters
Was I supposed to have the camera on, you know, when I was conceiving this child? Because if so, that's a different category of content that I typically create, and it's expensive, so that'd be a big rebrand. That'd be a big rebrand. Okay. But it would. It would pay. I'm gonna tell you that much. And so when I say that, that type, that is the expectation of some people, they expect you to do all of that, and it's still not good enough.
- [28:40]
Les
It's never enough.
- [28:41]
Nicole Walters
It's never enough. People literally want the pound of flesh. They want you to say, like, look, here is all of me, and anyone who's asking for all of you in that way does not have your interest at heart. And so write the damn book, do the damn podcast, get on the damn stage, do whatever it is you want to do to move the world forward. Because for the people who are. Are hating or have an opinion or have something negative to say from the couch, or they feel like, I'm gonna get that gotcha moment. I'm gonna. You know, this is why she doesn't deserve what she does. They're going to keep saying that no matter what so just do you.
- [29:13]
Les
And I think that that's such a good takeaway for. For all of us because I think that we can feel so limited or so scared, so fearful by either perceptions or are we doing enough or is it good enough? And it's like nothing's ever good enough for anybody, everybody or for ourselves. Right?
- [29:29]
Nicole Walters
Like when I tell you, like, you be so hard on yourself, I'm like, me? Yes. You know, you're hard. Your personal standards literally are worse than anyone else would ever write for you. You. You have such high standard for yourself. And I love it because it shows through. Like, everything you do is so damn excellent. You are so top tier in your craft and yet I know in your head it could be better, you know, and I.
- [29:49]
Podcast Announcer
What would Beyonce do?
- [29:50]
Nicole Walters
What would Beyonce do? You know what I mean? Like, you're always on another level. And I think that knowing that some of us operate on that level, that we're competing with ourselves, you know, we also have to remind ourselves, like, grace, Grace, Grace. You know what I mean? Because all in due time, it all comes together. You'll always be ready when it shows up. Otherwise it would have never shown up for you. You know what I mean? And I look at you now and I just. And that's part of what I see is like you are so damn ready for every moment you've been in. And it's because you are constantly in a state of preparation. And that is, I think, what we should be aspiring to. You know what I mean? Not like other people's levels of do you deserve or not deserve? Like, like cuz who's. Who's to say. Who are they? They not even here. No, they are called they because I don't know your name. You know mine though. Period. Period.
- [30:39]
Les
Oh, that's a word right there.
- [30:42]
Nicole Walters
Put it on a shirt.
- [30:44]
Les
So also, I just love talking about your content evolution. And I'm like, I want to go platform by platform. So we kind of did Instagram, we did podcast. Now we got to talk about threads.
- [30:53]
Nicole Walters
She's spicy.
- [30:54]
Les
You are spicy on threads. And I love it.
- [30:57]
Nicole Walters
I was never on Twitter though. I was not one of those people who. I didn' understand it, I guess like that 120 quick thing. It's dangerous though, because I've had to issue apologies because I just be too quick.
- [31:07]
Les
They call it Twitter fingers for I had no idea.
- [31:10]
Nicole Walters
See how Drake got messed up?
- [31:11]
Podcast Announcer
He did.
- [31:12]
Nicole Walters
That's stuff like that. You gotta slow down with the thumbs now. But it's. It's fitting you Know, like, I. And I also like it. Like, I didn't even realize how much I would enjoy catching up with people, seeing people's quick thoughts. It's more real time and there's less pressure around the creation, you know, because, you know, don't have to have, like, you know, as much video or photos or whatever. It's like word centric, you know, and. And I like it. And also, it's in keeping, I think, with all forms of my social media. Even if you follow me on Instagram or Facebook is probably my cleanest version, right? Because Facebook is terrifying. It is terrifying. It is a shit show of crazy. So what I do is I just keep it clean over there and keep it simple. Instagram is probably my most, like, homie, you know, like, well, these are my friends hanging out, like, feels good. Threads is like the girlfriends.
- [31:56]
Les
It's the group chat.
- [31:56]
Nicole Walters
It's the group chat. Okay? It's the group chat. Get in there. You know what I mean? And I am like, look, I pretend we still only have 120 characters, so if you're gonna get smart with me, I'm going to assassinate you in 120 characters.
- [32:08]
Podcast Announcer
Efficiently.
- [32:08]
Nicole Walters
Efficiently. Even if that means it is just two words. F. Off. Like, that's it. Yep, that's it. Quick.
- [32:15]
Les
That's all that needs to be said.
- [32:16]
Nicole Walters
Yeah, sometimes. Yeah, sometimes.
- [32:18]
Les
There was a thread that you had shared.
- [32:20]
Nicole Walters
Not sure. Pulling out. If you guys can't hear that, she just flipped a page.
- [32:23]
Les
No, it was personally terrified. I'm like, it wasn't anything crazy. It wasn't anything crazy.
- [32:30]
Nicole Walters
It's like opening. It's like, so I have this file right here. Let me just. I noticed that.
- [32:34]
Les
Do you remember back in the 90s when all the shows had us terrified of this idea of a permanent record? We thought that a permanent record was like a real thing because every. Every episode of Sister. Sister was like, this is going on your permanent record.
- [32:47]
Nicole Walters
Yes. I'm like, what is that?
- [32:48]
Les
You thought I was pulling out your permanent record?
- [32:49]
Nicole Walters
It's a real thing. Pulling out your. I thought you were pulling it out. Listen, even the reality binders and tabs, now I'm over here like, shit, what did I say? On. In my brain? I'm like, I be. I'd be writing on threads four or five times a day. What did I say?
- [33:01]
Les
No, it wasn't.
- [33:02]
Nicole Walters
It wasn't.
- [33:02]
Les
It wasn't anything crazy. But it is.
- [33:04]
Nicole Walters
It could be crazy, though.
- [33:05]
Les
It wasn't, I promise. But it was just a good segue into something else that I wanted to talk to you about. So I. I recently saw a post on Threads. This was not your post, but you responded to it. So a post said, people who have significantly reduced their stress levels, what's the one daily practice you can't live without? And you replied, divorce.
- [33:22]
Nicole Walters
Tell me more. Sad ass ass, weak ass, like lazy ass man. Okay? Will stress you out every time. Okay? So whether that is divorce, whether that is your current relationship, whether that is your boss, okay, Whether that is your best friend, cut it loose. It will improve your life. People are out here drinking water, doing meditation, but keeping that person in your life who stresses you the hell out, trust me, that water is not going to do nothing. Okay? Like get rid of them. Yeah, divorce, I mean, it's not a daily practice, you know, hopefully, but it.
- [33:53]
Les
Improves your every day.
- [33:54]
Nicole Walters
It improves. Once you say it improves, you know. Now divorce in and of itself, I will say the actual action of divorce for me was the worst, right? It was so stressful because it's like they always say you meet the truest version of the person you are with, you know, like during the divorce process, you know what I mean? And I already knew, I already had like inclination, I already had ideas, you know, it's why I have all of my daughters with me and up under me. It's why I am on the other side of the country, you know what I mean? Like, that experience for me was just illuminating, you know, in what I already saw a flicker of. But what I will tell you is that, do I regret going through that fire when I look at the life I had now, I would have done that. I was married for 12 years. I should have done that 11 years ago. And that is because it was worth it. I would do it ten times over for five minutes of the love that I have with my current husband without regret. You know, I would do it ten times over to see the health and light in my daughters every single day. I would do it 10 times over for 15 times the amount of money I spent and the amount of money I gave away, right to have the freedom and peace that I have now, it is worth it. Because one thing that is never on the divorce table that I think a lot of people who are in shitty relationships, bad business relationships, bad friendships, is your sense of self worth, your work ethic and your personal identity. Because a lot of times in divorce, people think they're going to get a cut of that if they keep going. But make no mistake, I left with a hundred percent of my best assets sets and that's the part that I always try to send home. I could have died in that relationship and I'm here, I'm alive, and I'm living better than ever before. Best stress management tool is Cutting off what does not serve you yes.
- [35:39]
Podcast Announcer
Gut health is incredibly important to me and it's something that I think about every day and that is why Ritual Symbiotic plus is the gut health supplement that I always come back to you. I've been using Ritual products for years now, but the Synbiotic plus is one of those things that just stick in my routine. I've tried plenty of other gut health supplements and honestly I keep returning to this one because it works for me and I trust it. Synbiotic plus is a 3 in 1 formula with prebiotics, probiotics and postbiotics all in 1 pop of mint daily capsule and it's designed with a delayed release capsule that helps it reach the colon and not just dissolve in your stomach, which is the ideal place for probiotics to survive and grow. For me, it's about feeling supported and steady, especially with digestion and regularity. I don't have to overthink it, it's just a part of my daily rhythm.
- [36:39]
Les
And I love that.
- [36:39]
Podcast Announcer
Ritual's formulas are vegan, friendly, non GMO and made without major allergens, animal products or any weird fillers. It's also super gentle. It's never once upset my stomach, which is more than I can say for some other things that I've tried. It's also HSA FSA eligible, which means you can use pre tax dollars at checkout. So it's super easy and super convenient if you're looking to support your gut and want something you can actually stick with and get your gut going. Support a balanced gut microbiome with Rituals symbiotic plus get 25 off your first month at ritual.com balanced that's ritual.com balanced for 25% off your first month. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. You know when you hit that part of the day when your brain just checks out like you're staring at your to do list. Your tea is cold and your body is like we're done here. Yeah, that's usually where I was. About 2pm most days I started looking at what I was putting in my body, especially those mega pill multivitamins that promise everything but leave you wondering if they're actually working. Then I found Vimergy and it was a total shift. Vimergy makes liquid vitamins clean, potent and actually easy for your body to absorb and for you to take. No sugar, no fillers, no mystery ingredients you have to Google just pure extracts and nutrients that support your mood, energy, immunity and sleep. And let me just say their brain body recharge, tincture obsessed and it saves me in the afternoons. It's packed with CoQ10, vitamin D3 and vitamin K2 and I honestly feel the difference when I take it. It gives me that subtle clarity and stamina that helps me show up for work, for people and for myself. They've got a ton of other great options too, like organic B12 for energy and focus, lemon balm for calming and magnesium for better rest. All in fast absorbing liquid form. So if you're ready to stop guessing and start feeling better on your own terms, this is it. New customers can save 20 off their first order with the code LUCKY. Just visit vimergy.com that's v I m e r g y.com and use the code Lucky at checkout.
- [39:12]
Les
In your book, you had started talking about the beginning of that process of when you had your health scares and when you had like broken down and literally slept for like 48 hours.
- [39:23]
Nicole Walters
We had to do like a wellness check. Yeah.
- [39:25]
Les
And so now that you are like a few years out from that, to see you in this really beautiful season post, all of that truly has been amazing to see.
- [39:33]
Nicole Walters
Thank you. I, you know what's wild? So because social media, like everyone has opinions on what happened, what, you know, like what was the reason, you know, and it's like divorce in a lot of situations is death by a million tiny cuts. It's rarely like, only in like tv, you know, or in like, you know, I think short marriages, is it ever infidelity, money, like erupting, Like, I did not know this thing and now I know this thing, right? But for most long term marriages that end, it's because it's like, like there's a fundamental thing that you're like, oh, this never changed or this did change. Like it's something that, you know, you gave it time, right? So my partner is exactly the same person he was when I married him. So that's on me, you know what I mean? And, and the person he is is not a bad person. It's just not who I should be with as I've evolved, you know, and it does not serve the life that and the values and the things we've acquired during that time, both in children Money, household assets, you know, clear skin, tight body, good weaves. I had synthetic wigs back then. I wear human hair now. Like, I'm different. Okay? I'm different.
- [40:38]
Les
Were there any things that you either had to reprogram around marriage or beliefs that you had to let go of in order to be in a healthy, happy marriage now? And what has that process been?
- [40:52]
Nicole Walters
Oh, my gosh, yes. So, like, I think that also a lot of people will look at my life or look at my marriage and say, God, you guys seem so happy. Or like, everything seems so good. Yeah. Again, 10 of my marriage. You know what I mean? You weren't seeing the whole thing on social. And who post on social every time they're. I mean, I think reality TV has made us think that people post every time they're having a breakup or they do things publicly. But I'm old school. I'm not posting that mess. Like, are you kidding me? You know? Like, that's not it. Also not a perfect wife. Like what? You know, like, granted, I was on my Proverbs 31, okay? I could grow. I. You saw my garden, I could grow the food I could mend. I could. I could sew the clothes. You know, I made the money. Like, I did show up in my marriage. But at the end of the day, like, the person I was in my marriage, I became angry, I became fearful, and I became anxious, you know, and that showed up everywhere. I didn't like that it was spilling over at work. I didn't like that it was spilling over in the place I protect the most was my. My parenting. And I did that fiercely through therapy, you know? And one thing I know is that, like. Like, I want the marriage that I have now so badly that there's no way I would even let that other person show up. And I've grown up, you know?
- [42:06]
Les
By other person, you mean the other version of you?
- [42:08]
Nicole Walters
Yeah, the other version of me. If it's even another version. Right. Like, I think that I've actually just come into more of who I actually am. There was a. A person that showed up in my previous marriage who was protecting the person I am now. You know, it was a person who showed up to say, you're not going to get the last of the goodness of me, you know, you're not going to be able to get at the core of who I am. You're not gonna change who I am, you know, in this way. And so, like, I'm. I'm sort of fighting against this version of me that was exhausted and working so hard and, you know, codependent and giving so much of themselves, you know, and fighting with moving targets and just all these things. And now, you know, I'm with someone who lets me be the fullest version of myself who, you know, shows up in so many different ways that allows me to feel free to make mistakes and to make errors. And I feel so safe. Like, I mean, even my sex is crazy. You know what I mean? Because that's part that I think a lot of women don't talk about. The vulnerability that you're able to have when you feel safe with your partner means that you're discovering parts of you that you thought were dormant or didn't exist before that are brighter than ever before. And that is also. My partner is the best I've ever had. He's amazing. Like, I mean, he's just the greatest. Greatest. I'm saying that specifically for him so everyone else can ignore that, but he was always like, oh, you know, gas me up. Ah, gassed. So, see, this is how you keep your marriage together. Right? Little request. It wasn't hard for me to do. Right. I publicly stated so. But all this. I also have a rock solid prenup. You know what I mean? Like, which is wild, because when I first got married, I'm not kidding, I literally was like, I should get a prenup. This was when I had nothing. So black women know your worth. I knew what I was worth. Worth coming into that marriage. I knew what I was going to do. I knew I was going to cross millions and millions and millions. And I didn't get a prenup because I said to myself, no, we'll do it together. I'm so young. I don't have anything. He has. He's the one with the trust fund. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, all this stuff. And then look at me, you know, this one got a prenup. But I also am married to a person who's not gonna make me use it, you know? And, like, knock on wood, right? Y' all don't come back later and be like, oh, this didn't age well. Keep that to yourself. You know? Like, we will be together. All right? Stand in agreement. Agreement with me. So, yeah, I have had to work on myself. You know, I'm imperfect. You know, Like, I was angrier. I was unhappy. But the thing that people are saying they see now on social, which is, like, in the beginning, we criticized you, and we were hard on you during the divorce process, but we see how happy you are now. We see the. Your smile looks different, you seem healthier, you seem more at ease. Yeah, it's true. It's because I'm in a healthy relationship and I'm being loved. Well, and that is what you're saying, seeing.
- [44:42]
Les
And that's what everybody deserve. Like, we all deserve that.
- [44:46]
Nicole Walters
We all deserve it.
- [44:47]
Les
Did you have a moment where you were like, oh, this is what love is supposed to feel like?
- [44:51]
Nicole Walters
Oh, yes. I have that moment every day. And that's the blessing, right? Yeah, like, that's the blessing every single day. And I don't just have it with my husband because I have space to breathe and be. I have it with my kids, I have it with my dogs. I have it walking around by myself. I have it in the shower. I have it driving here, I'm like trying not to cry. Like driving here by myself, realizing I'd be happy to be at home. I'm also happy in this car. I'm gonna be happy when I get to see less, I get to be happy driving back. Like, it's imperfect. My life is a show, make no mistake. It's chaos. Like what is happening all the time. But I'm so grateful and happy to be in each moment. That's what love is like. It costs though. Let me just say that.
- [45:34]
Les
Oh yeah, it costs. It's not free and it's not easy.
- [45:36]
Nicole Walters
My divorce was a quarter million, girl. It costs. Cost. That's just the lawyer fees and the expenses of maintaining two households. Oh, yes, ma'. Am. What's crazy plot twist would have paid more.
- [45:46]
Les
It's worth it.
- [45:47]
Nicole Walters
It's worth.
- [45:48]
Les
It's worth it. You're worth it.
- [45:49]
Nicole Walters
Worth it.
- [45:50]
Les
Yeah, worth it for your freedom, for your well being, for.
- [45:52]
Nicole Walters
Also that's just. That was the then money, girl. The best is in front of you every time. Every time always comes back. I know. If anyone's looking for the tell all book, it's coming, that book deal. I'll be back.
- [46:06]
Les
We'll talk about that. I know, I know. For the next book tour. Well, also, I think sometimes we can be so afraid to leave something. Whether it's a relationship, whether it's a job, whether it's a city, whether it's a roommate, whatever. Because we're so afraid of the unknown. And I have had a lot of moments in my life. I mean, I haven't been divorced, but I have left situations that weren't good for me. And having the realization of me staying in this is guaranteeing that I won't be happy. Happy. Oh, and even Stepping into the unknown. I have a 100 better chance of feeling happy, feeling loved, feeling healthy, feeling free than I do staying in this, where I know for a fact that's not going to happen. And that familiarity isn't worth it.
- [46:48]
Nicole Walters
Listen, what you just said right there is the. Like, my pregnancy hormones, I'm about to tear up. That is the definition of, like, you said you haven't been divorced before, but that any divorced woman right now is nodding their head. Anyone who said this is also my first bad breakup, if you will. Like, like, it's the same thing. It's this idea that I would rather choose whatever the hell is out there than continue to be in this thing. And how many things have been birthed outside of that, you know, like, almost everything great comes of that place where it's like, anything else has got to be better, and I'm willing to do the work to find it. And I was ready to be by myself, flat broke. Three suitcases, supporting three different baby girls that I promised I would. I would love and be with for life, you know, and start from scratch with not a dollar on my back, you know, to just figure it out, you know, in order to have the peace, like. And I think that that is always very telling. It's why I have a lot of compassion for women who quit jobs without a plan even, you know, a lot of compassion for women who leave marriages, you know, because no matter what you look like, whether you're the strong one or you have it all together, you're the pretty one, whatever else, it's telling about where you were, because nobody makes those types of decisions. If where they were just didn't present so much discomfort and angst that they didn't. The only glimmer of hope was to go. That is like, it's the bravest thing ever. And it speaks volumes about their character.
- [48:07]
Les
100%. Yeah. And it's hard.
- [48:09]
Nicole Walters
It's so hard.
- [48:10]
Les
Worth it.
- [48:11]
Nicole Walters
It's so hard. Totally worth it.
- [48:12]
Les
You have to believe that you're worth it.
- [48:13]
Nicole Walters
Yeah. No regrets. And if you can do that, you can do anything else. The hardest thing I ever been through was my daughter's cancer, you know, like, that experience. And she's fine. For people who don't know the story, she's fine. But having gone through that, my divorce literally wasn't even that bad. And that, like, so it was just like. And it was terrible, and it wasn't even that bad. So the whole time I'm like, this is actually still isn't as bad as Going through that. So film. I got it.
- [48:34]
Podcast Announcer
Absolutely.
- [48:34]
Les
Yeah. I also would love to talk to you about motherhood.
- [48:38]
Nicole Walters
Yeah.
- [48:38]
Les
For people who. Who are not familiar with your story, you have four daughters.
- [48:41]
Nicole Walters
I do.
- [48:41]
Les
You adopted three girls a while.
- [48:43]
Nicole Walters
Has it been 10 years? Yeah. 10 years.
- [48:46]
Podcast Announcer
Yeah.
- [48:46]
Les
That you adopted your oldest three daughters, and then earlier this year, you gave birth to your fourth daughter. My goodness, Josie. She's so cute.
- [48:55]
Nicole Walters
She's just like, I can't. I can't even if you. If this. This might make me cry. I. The thing that I care about and love the most are my babies, so it's just. I can't even.
- [49:05]
Les
Yeah. There's a few things that I would love to talk about with you in terms of. I think the versions of motherhood that you have experienced, I'm sure, are very drastically different. When you adopted three girls, particularly your two older daughters were a little bit older and then tiny.
- [49:21]
Nicole Walters
Yeah.
- [49:21]
Les
Was 3.
- [49:22]
Nicole Walters
3, 3, 3. 11 and 14. Yes. When was. I got my girls.
- [49:26]
Les
Which I'm sure is an entirely different experience than when you are, like, giving birth and. And bringing someone into the world. Day one. From the beginning. I'm curious about how your perspective about motherhood has changed in the different versions of mothering that you've now experienced.
- [49:41]
Nicole Walters
I mean, everything with this one is my fault. That's, like, the biggest thing, right? Like, the other ones I can blame on anything else. I can be, ah, you know, I got them older. Ah, whatever, you know. No, it's like, all me, like. And it's. It's funny, though, because realistically, all of my babies are mine, and they all have, like, my silly attributes and, you know, ways, because when you raise them, you raise them. But this is the first time I've ever said this publicly. I've actually only said it to friends. One of my biggest fears in getting pregnant and carrying and conceiving, you know, for the first time was would I feel something different for this child that I've carried that was birthed out of love, you know? And, you know, the whole thing was created out of a desire to create this life versus a circumstance that God put together, which was still created out of love, but love and circumstance, you know, and would I feel differently? You know? Cause I've never wanted to diminish the process of carrying a child because I hadn't done it. So, you know, when mothers say, like, you just love your baby like no other, I was like, oh, man, am I gonna love my other babies 99.9%. And then love this one a Hundred. I was so scary, scared. And when I tell you it's no different, but it is no different. It's so, so not different that I should have paid a surrogate. Like, I should have delegated this. Like, I just. Like. Cause I did not like being pregnant. And I really was like, you know, everyone says the experience and all that stuff, and it was still beautiful and amazing to know my body could, like, make livers and, like, you know, like, wake up and have this sort of bonding experience with your husband or whatever. But, like, I hated being pregnant. Like, no, someone else can cook my babies. I'm gonna love them just the same. You know what I mean? Like, it's total. Like, I get why celebrities have the first one and then often delegate the rest. Because you get it delicate. Yeah, you do. Like, as a business and CEO person, like, when I think financially about the fiscal. If you can financially afford it, I could make more money during the nine months of sort of disability and difficulty and limitedness, you know, that I experienced during pregnancy plus maternity than I could have carrying, like, I mean, a surrogate costs less. So it's like.
- [51:45]
Les
Like mathematics when you put it that way.
- [51:49]
Nicole Walters
It's just not like. And I can tell you, at least for me, the caring experience wasn't. It didn't affect how I feel about my baby at all. You know, it was a cool thing. And I, as a woman, it has changed who I am in terms of, like, you better not even spell my name wrong on a Starbucks cup, okay? It is Nicole. No H, okay? Because I have created life. Have you made a foot? If not, sir, spell it right. Like, that's like, how, like, the energy that I have right now around what women are capable of. I am shocked that anybody ever is going to tell a woman what we can and cannot do. Are you kidding me? I make livers. Don't say anything to me. You know what I mean? Like, what? Are you kidding me? I gave birth unmedicated. You cry when you stub your toe. You know what I mean? Like, I just. I'm not here for it. So I think that part's been amazing. But when it comes to motherhood, like, I am. I have a four pack. You know, my babies even look the same. Like, if y' all follow me on social at all, you'll see it. It makes no sense. My kids don't even look like me. Like, they look like each other. The craziest thing. And it's just like. And they all love each other because we are a family that has. We've chosen each other and, and people don't know this, but I'll say this also the conversation around adding to our family was a group conversation. You know, it was something that, that obviously me and Alex, my husband, decided as husband and wife, like this is something we'd like to pursue. But we also knew that me being 40, it might not happen easily, you know, so we were like, look, if this ends up being something that's a stressor or a financial strain or whatever, we need to be able to let the kids know that because, you know, we're a very open household. And so we asked the kids, you know, we're thinking about adding to our family. How do you feel about that? What do you think? And they were all like, yeah, we would love it. Like, like we would love to have a baby. Love. And so that was just so it's a beautiful thing. Motherhood has been incredible. It's just, it's infancy is harder. I only know what to do from three up, you know what I mean?
- [53:41]
Les
But getting a crash course, I also.
- [53:44]
Nicole Walters
Have more patience because one older and two, I have a whole team of, you know, family, all the girls are older, you know, which is nice. And also I already know what's to come. So every phase feels like just a phase, you know, Cuz I'm like, oh yeah, when she's three, it won't be like this when she's done, you know, know, because I've already done it.
- [53:59]
Les
So I appreciated how open and forthcoming you were during also like your pregnancy and as you've been postpartum, seeing you do that in your late 30s, turning 40 while pregnant, giving birth, working like.
- [54:13]
Nicole Walters
All the things, all of the things.
- [54:14]
Les
Because age is a big thing. It is a big thing for women. Obviously our age does impact fertility and I'm not going to act like age doesn't matter, but I will say it is also very encouraging to see women of different ages being able to do those things. Things being healthy, having a healthy baby and going through that, right?
- [54:34]
Nicole Walters
I'm black, I'm African, Listen, I could probably have babies. So I'm 78, that's. My uterus is perpetually 25. I have to be very careful. I don't even let my husband sneeze on me now because I could end up with triplets, you know what I mean? But I will say freeze your eggs, go check your fertility, just go ask, you know what I mean? Like just if there's something you think you may even want to consider, just go find out. So that you have options later. But ultimately, like, there's no rules rules.
- [54:56]
Les
Like, because I think most times that's used as a fear mongering tactic to manipulate you.
- [55:01]
Nicole Walters
Oh, yeah, by men, by the media, by the government, by other women, you know, by family members. It's often like, but don't you want family? Don't you want kids?
- [55:08]
Les
You gotta do it now.
- [55:09]
Nicole Walters
My mom told me, even now, I was like, we're done. My mom's like, ah, but are you God? Because she's African. You are not God. So, you know, you might say you are dumb, but I had dream I had a child on my back and one in the front. So I don't know. You say you are dumb, but you are not God. So I'm like, all right, lady, lady, stay away from me. Yeah. Are you kidding me? So, yeah, no, like 35, 40, like, people are having babies out here at like 50. I'm in LA. Like, do you. And families are also made a lot of different ways. You can adopt. You know, you can adopt an older child, you can mentor, you can be a super auntie. Like, I have four kids. Come get one of mine. Like, they're driving me crazy every day. So. Yeah, no, it's. Don't let anyone shake you.
- [55:49]
Les
Yeah. Yeah. Nicole, thank you so much. I love that we got to do a part two and getting to check in in this beautiful season.
- [55:56]
Nicole Walters
I. We have to do a part three. The part three will either be the messy tell all because I wrecked it all and I was wrong, or it'll be the comeback glow up story of the ages.
- [56:04]
Les
I want all versions.
- [56:05]
Nicole Walters
Either way, it'll be the best. Thanks for having me. I love this.
- [56:08]
Les
Thank you for coming back. We'll make sure that all of your information is linked in the show notes too, so everyone knows where to find you.
- [56:13]
Nicole Walters
Well, thanks for having me.
- [56:14]
Les
Of course.
- [56:15]
Podcast Announcer
And thank you all so much for.
- [56:16]
Les
Tuning in this week. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure you leave a five star review because lucky girls are five star girls.
- [56:22]
Nicole Walters
Girls.
- [56:22]
Les
Okay. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple, Spotify.
- [56:25]
Podcast Announcer
And YouTube and I will see you next week. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of she's so Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show notes for resources, links and discount codes. And if you are really feeling lucky, we would appreciate your rating and your review.
- [56:53]
Les
It really helps us be able to.
- [56:55]
Podcast Announcer
Improve the show, to get great guests and to understand what you want to hear more of. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week.
- [57:08]
Nicole Walters
Hi, I'm Moshe Kasher and I would like you to meet my thick ass Fang.
- [57:14]
Les
I guess that's me. I'm Natasha Lashley.
- [57:16]
Nicole Walters
We are comedians and we're married and we do a relationship and life advice show called the Endless Honeymoon Podcast. And here's the exciting part. We want to advise you we're a no judgment zone, so anything you want to ask about, it's all good. Yes.
- [57:30]
Podcast Announcer
Send us your questions to Endless Honeymoon.
- [57:32]
Les
Pod, Gmail and tune in to the Endless Honeymoon Podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube.
- [57:37]
Podcast Announcer
Or wherever you like to listen.
- [57:39]
Les
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Services Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.