← She's So Lucky
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- [00:01]
A
The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. You know that feeling when you are trying so hard for your makeup to turn out well and it just gets worse. Like you spend all this time applying product and now your face feels heavy, cakey and somehow both too much and not enough. I have been there many times. I used to dread doing my makeup because it felt like this complicated process that never turned out right. And then I found Jones Road Beauty. It's founded by makeup artist Bobbi Brown and it's all about clean, strategic, minimalist makeup that actually works. No more layering five different products and hoping for the best. My go to product is the Miracle Balm. It's this magic little multitasker that adds a fresh glowy tint and makes you look like you just got back from a walk, drank a green juice, slept nine hours even if you didn't do any of that. I swipe it on my cheeks, my lips, sometimes even my eyelids and I'm out the door. It takes seconds. My favorite shades are Cocoa Bronze for a bronzy glow and Golden Hour for a gorgeous golden highlight. Jones Road also has a full line of effortless skin first staples that are must haves. Honestly, this is makeup that feels like it was made for people who are tired of feeling like makeup is a full time job. Modern day makeup that's clean, strategic and multifunctional for effortless routines. For a limited time, our listeners are getting a free cool gloss on their first purchase when they use the Code Lucky at checkout. Just head to Jonesroadbeauty.com and use code Lucky at checkout and after you purchase they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Thank you for listening to she's so Lucky. My name is Les. I am your host and I appreciate you tuning in.
- [02:06]
B
Now if you've listened to the show over the years in all of its various forms, you know how much I am an advocate for people owning and.
- [02:14]
A
Telling their own stories in their own way. And I'm really excited to get into.
- [02:19]
B
That with today's guest. So I'm very excited to welcome to the show Mia So sue, please join.
- [02:26]
A
Me in welcoming Mia. Hello.
- [02:28]
C
Hi.
- [02:29]
B
It's so good to see you.
- [02:30]
C
It's so good to see you too. I'm so happy to be here.
- [02:33]
B
I'm so happy to have you. I know we were chatting kind of before we started rolling. We met earlier this year. We did on a brand trip that was like very busy.
- [02:41]
C
Very busy, but a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. I love a cruise.
- [02:45]
A
For sure.
- [02:46]
B
We got to have a little cruise moment, and now we're coming back together on another very busy week.
- [02:50]
C
A very busy week. It's Fashion Week. Yes. Yeah. So lots of stuff going on.
- [02:55]
B
Lots of things. But I was so excited when I found out we were going to get to have you on the show because even though we chatted a little bit on that trip, like we said, it was very busy.
- [03:04]
C
Yeah.
- [03:04]
B
And so to be able to actually sit down and talk one on one.
- [03:07]
A
With you, I was like, nia's so sweet. I can't wait to have her.
- [03:11]
C
I've been looking forward to this, honestly. And, like, after we met and you told me you were a podcaster, I looked into your stuff and I was like, oh, my God, this is really cool. Like, you're so successful and you have great people on your show. So I'm really happy to be here. Very excited.
- [03:25]
A
Amazing.
- [03:26]
B
Yeah. Well, I'm super excited to have you.
- [03:28]
C
Yeah, thanks.
- [03:29]
B
So I'm sure that many people in our audience are very familiar with you because you have kind of been in the spotlight for most of your life at this point.
- [03:36]
C
Right.
- [03:37]
B
A lot of people grew up watching you on Dance Moms. Started when you were nine.
- [03:40]
C
Yeah.
- [03:41]
A
Right.
- [03:41]
C
So, yeah, I was nine when I started.
- [03:43]
B
So incredibly young.
- [03:45]
A
You also act.
- [03:46]
B
You are also an author, but I would love to just hear more about how you're doing now and the season that you're currently in.
- [03:52]
C
It's a really exciting season for me. I mean, I'm 24 now, and when the show ended, I was, like, 15, 16 years old. So I've been removed from it for quite a bit of time now, and I've had time to reflect and gather my thoughts. I'm releasing my memoir, Bottom of the Pyramid, this year, and it's something that I've been working on for the past few years. It's been my passion project, and it feels like I'm really just, like, coming into my own, really, like, finding my voice and being a young woman in this industry and also as an author, it's helped kind of just like, shaped the way I've viewed things. You know, I've really had to kind of, like, go back and, like, revisit things from when I was younger. And I feel like when you're in your 20s, you do a lot of reflection. You're coming out from being a teenager. There's a lot of change happening, and right now it just feels like there's a lot of Change happening. But it also feels like I'm coming into my own and I'm figuring things out, like, one step at a time. And writing this book has been very helpful in doing that and figuring my life out.
- [05:06]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:07]
B
And 24, I feel like that's such an interesting age because it's like, you are still so young, but you're, like, also settling into adulthood.
- [05:15]
C
Yeah.
- [05:16]
B
So it's like you, in the grand scheme of things, are still a very young person, but it's almost the first time you really see things with adult eyes.
- [05:23]
C
Yes. Yes.
- [05:24]
B
And it's, I'm sure, just such an interesting period of time to reflect on those experiences now as an adult and be able to understand things in different ways.
- [05:32]
C
For sure. For sure. Just being an adult and understanding, ending things. I mean, I'm 24, which means frontal lobe technically hasn't developed.
- [05:41]
B
But you're right there.
- [05:44]
C
It's developing. It's developing. And I feel it. I feel it. But, yeah, it's been interesting to kind of, like, go through life as an adult. You just think of things differently, and I see things differently now.
- [05:59]
B
Yeah. I joked that I felt my frontal lobe turn on, and it almost felt like. On that. So Raven, when Raven would have a vision, and she was just like. It was like, one day, it was like, oh, my brain.
- [06:14]
C
Telling me that they're like, no. Like, when I was 25, like, it clicked.
- [06:18]
B
Yeah.
- [06:18]
C
And I'm excited for that. A little nervous. I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean it clicked? I don't know if I want to get that. You'll be invited.
- [06:26]
B
It's just like a light switch where it's like, okay, okay, now all the lights are on.
- [06:30]
C
Right. Okay. Okay. I'm excited for that moment. I'll let you know when it happens.
- [06:34]
B
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you're already, like, so smart and, like, it probably won't feel that different, but it's okay. Okay. Like, I'm fully awake now.
- [06:42]
C
I'm fully awake. I want to be fully awake. Yes.
- [06:45]
B
So I would love to get into the writing process of this book for you. As you mentioned, it took you a few years doing a lot of reflecting, particularly on your childhood experiences. What was it like to revisit so many of those experiences your younger self had?
- [07:01]
C
Yeah, it's interesting, the whole book itself. Although I'm, you know, sharing my experiences that sometimes weren't, you know, happy experiences, I still kind of, like, look back on those times and am so happy. Some of these experiences are negative. But I'm really trying to, like, turn things around and turn things into a positive and turn things into a learning lesson, honestly. So going back to watch the show sometimes was really hard. I'm not gonna lie. Seeing, like baby Nia, like 9 year old Nia on TV, me watching her sometimes didn't feel like me. Like, it felt like me, but it didn't feel like me. And having like, you know, my eyes watch the show now, it just seems so different. And it was hard sometimes to kind of remind myself of things that had happened on the show because some of the things that happened on the show were very difficult to go through. And I try not to think of them too much because, you know, I always try to look forward. But I've learned that it's also very important to kind of go back and like, revisit things and get that closure. I feel like I never really had closure from the show. You know, it took up such a huge part of my life and literally, like my whole childhood. So having the opportunity to just like go back and watch myself through, like, the lens of how America saw things was also very different from like how I remember things happening as well and kind of comparing the two, like what you see on tv, but what I actually felt, how I actually experienced things, what else went on whenever the cameras were off, you know what I mean? So it was a really weird kind of thing to go through and sometimes really sad. I would have to take breaks sometimes because it would be a lot. It would be a lot. But it also has been very healing to just be able to have the space to kind of like, talk about things, to revisit them. Because my mom will go back and watch the episodes with me. And also just to do that with my mom too was like. It was really special as well. Yeah, yeah.
- [09:23]
B
It makes a lot of sense because that you experienced it together the first time to revisit it together as well.
- [09:29]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:31]
B
How has closure felt for you? What has closure looked like for you?
- [09:35]
C
Yeah, well, I think writing this book truly feels like the official closure. Like, okay, I'm turning the page because I feel like for so long I stayed quiet about things. I never really talked about my experience on Dance Moms. I tried my best to kind of like stray away from it because it brings up a lot of, like, not great memories. And by the end of the show, run, like, the bad outweighed the good, you know? So it was really hard for me to kind of like, just like talk about the show. I don't love Drama. I know, like, that probably seems really surprising to people, especially since I'm writing a book called Bottom of the Pyramid. But, like, genuinely, I don't like drama. I like to stay out of it. And that's part of the reason why I kind of waited to write the book for a while, because I don't want to, like, cause a scene. I don't want people to, like, be mad. But at the same time, in order to have closure, my story needs to be told, and my story was never told. And I never had a chance to actually, like, talk about what I went through, how I felt about things, especially being the only black girl on the show for, like, a majority of the show run, you know, that's a really big deal, and I never talked about that. And that's a huge part of, like, who I am and my identity. And I feel like it's also not only, just, like, my story, but a lot of other girls have gone through similar experiences than I have. So it's important to share our stories so that we can learn and grow from them. And now that I've been able to, like, write the book, I feel like I can finally kind of put this in the past, because for so long, I've just kind of pushed everything down where I was like, it's gonna go away. It's gonna go away. But you know what? It's been years, years since the show finished airing, and it's on all these streaming platforms. It's has, like, millions and millions of, like, hits on, like, TikTok. Like, the hashtag has. So there's so many Dance mom. It's crazy. So I'm like, it's not dying down anytime soon.
- [11:49]
B
Or, like, viral sounds.
- [11:50]
C
Exactly, exactly. And I feel like in order to, like, actually, like, be able to enjoy this moment where it's still kind of, you know, big people still are interested in the show. It's important to talk about this because we're also in a different day and age where we can actually have these types of conversations.
- [12:11]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what can be really healing about talking about experiences you had as a child, as an adult is when you're a kid, even being in. In those spaces where it's like, you're the only black girl who's having this experience for an extended amount of time as a kid. You feel it. Yeah. You don't necessarily have the words for it yet.
- [12:33]
C
Right. And then we don't have a way of articulating it. Yeah.
- [12:36]
B
That is a level of release where it's like the feeling was always there, but now you explain it.
- [12:41]
C
Exactly. Exactly. That's really interesting you brought that up because I wanted to write a book for a really long time. Ever since I ended the show, I've always wanted to write a book about my experiences. But 16 year old me, like writing a book about what I experienced, even though I'm still a teenager, even though I was 16, I still needed more life experiences. I still needed to like step away from the show for a while, to actually see it for what it was and to actually like articulate and like put down my thoughts, you know, because when you're in those environments, like, especially as a child, you know what's going on, but like, you don't have the bandwidth to kind of explain how you feel and you don't have that emotional intelligence to handle all of those feelings, especially when you're in it. So, yeah, that has been very interesting. I'm happy now that I finally like, have the strength and like the voice and like the words to actually articulate how I felt and like actually share with people what I went through. Like, you know, it's, there's a lot there and I'm excited for people to read the this book because it is so layered. Like there's so many things that happen on the show where I'm sure my castmates, I'm sure producers, I'm sure production had no idea I even felt this way. But also, how would they know I was a child? And also, like, it's not like any of them would be able to kind of relate to me in the way I was. Like being the only black girl on the show. Like, they're not going to be able to relate to that, you know, so it's been a long time coming. But it is so important for me to tell my story how I saw it from my eyes, from my personal experiences, because so many people have talked about their side of things and that's great for them. But at the same time, my story also deserves to be shared and told and I'm not here to protect anyone, you know, and although I'm not trying to put people down or bash or like, you know, I don't like to just make people look bad. It's not what the book is about. The book is really just about Nia, baby Nia finally getting to share her life in her story.
- [15:08]
B
And was there anything in particular that made now feel like the right time for you to share that story?
- [15:14]
C
Yeah, there were quite a few factors in that. One of the biggest ones though is that after 2020, honestly, with the rise of the BLM movement, there's been a shift in media and on social media as well about the way we talk about race and issues related. You know, I feel like before that you couldn't really like you could to a certain extent. But I feel like there's more space, there's more room for people to actually understand race related issues. And that's part of the reason why I felt like it was time for me to share my story. I was a junior in high school when I finally like it finally clicked and was like, you know what? Like it's time I feel ready to talk about this, you know, And I was like, and I think the world's ready too. If I would have put something out like this years ago, it probably would have been watered down. It probably wouldn't have. Well one, because I was younger, but also because of just the time it was as well. But now since we're In a post 2020 world, I think people are going to be more receptive to it and more people will have I guess like the education to kind of like handle all of this and kind of like sort through it. It's a lot of stuff, but it's very necessary.
- [16:43]
A
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- [21:46]
B
I'm also curious how you feel about being perceived, which sounds like a very broad statement, but I do think so many people have almost perception fatigue because we're perceiving each other all the time, social media, all of the things. But I think someone who grew up in a position like you did from being perceived on such a wide scale, from such a young age. Did you ever have any moments where you felt like you wanted to kind of pull back and reclaim being perceived just for yourself? And what was that like?
- [22:18]
C
For sure. I mean, I'm a people pleaser, you know, and it's like, so it's like it's very hard to be a people pleaser when you're on a show where you're never pleasing the people you're supposed to be pleasing. And also you're not really pleasing the world either. So it's very, so it's very, it's very interesting kind of going through life knowing that people see you a certain way and you don't really have any control over that. You kind of learn that lesson from a young age. Like you have no control over how people see you. And actually the title of the book, Bottom of the Pyramid, I know it probably shocked a lot of people. I think I even saw some comments that were like, oh, it's so sad that Nia, like, you know, titled her book Bottom of the Pyramid and someone commented underneath it and was, well, obviously, like, that's how she lived. Like, that was literally part of her life. That's literally how she lived her life. How do you think she feels about that? Like, And I'm like, that's exactly, that's exactly the point. Yeah, because that was the label I was given on the show. It has Kind of, like, followed me throughout my whole life, and there's nothing I could really do to shed that title. So part of the reason why I gave my book that title was to kind of reclaim it. Honestly, it's so important for me to, like, share with people that no matter how you're perceived, only you really get to dictate who you are as a person. You know, I don't see myself as being at the bottom of the pyramid, and other people might, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because I know who I am and I know what I've done, and I know that I've been successful. Even though people have put this label on me, it's really just me kind of reclaiming that title and turning it into a positive because it is a negative title. People will probably think it's putting myself down, but instead, it's really finally sharing my side of the story, my side of things. Especially, like, I think it's important for people to know how you feel so that they don't keep acting or like treating you a certain way.
- [24:36]
A
Right.
- [24:36]
C
You know, I've kept up, like, this strong front, and I am a strong person, but at the same time, I'm a person and things do hurt. I don't care what anyone says, Words do hurt, no matter how strong you are. And it's important for people to realize that their words do have weight sometimes. And, yes, we can knock it off, but sometimes we do have to discuss it and sometimes we do have to talk about it. So, yeah, the title has so much meaning behind it. It's literally like My Baby, you know? And I really dive deep in the book about what it means to be perceived and how I perceive myself and how I think people perceive me does, if that makes sense. So, yeah, I talk about all those issues about being young and being perceived, but then also being an adult. A young adult and still having those same perceptions from people.
- [25:33]
A
Yeah.
- [25:33]
C
Yeah.
- [25:34]
B
I appreciate you sharing that. I know when I first saw the title of the book, I thought it was, like, really bold. Yeah, that was the first word that came to my mind. I didn't think it was sad. I thought it was. I thought that it was bold. It was like a statement of arrival, like, for sure. And I'm owning my story. The good, the Bad, the ugly. Yes.
- [25:55]
C
All parts of all parts of it.
- [25:56]
B
From every angle.
- [25:57]
C
Yes. Yes. Okay, good.
- [25:58]
B
Yeah, that was my perception.
- [26:00]
C
Okay, good. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. It's supposed to make a statement. It's supposed to make people stop, think, and have some sort of reaction, you know?
- [26:10]
B
Definitely.
- [26:11]
C
Yeah.
- [26:11]
B
And I think that there is this weird dichotomy between particularly online culture and how we consume media and how we talk about people in media, where people behind a keyboard, I think it's okay to, like, kind of talk a little crazy and say anything and say anything, but then when you acknowledge the thing that people say, it's like, oh, no, now it's time for eggshells. And it's like, no, if you said it, stand 10 fingers down on the keyboard.
- [26:39]
C
Yeah. Say it with your child. Yeah, let's talk about it.
- [26:42]
B
Say it in person.
- [26:44]
C
For sure. Never would. Never would. Yeah, yeah. It's so true. It's so true. People love to hide behind the keyboard. Like, what do they call them, Keyboard warriors? Like, you know, like, we gotta tone it down. If you're gonna act crazy online, be prepared for people to act crazy back.
- [27:03]
B
Yeah, be ready to back it up.
- [27:05]
C
Be ready to back it up. Like, okay, let's talk about it. Let's chat then. Yeah, since you guys want to talk about it so much.
- [27:10]
B
Exactly, exactly. You know, through the whole process of revisiting the experiences of your younger self, was there anything that you learned about yourself?
- [27:21]
C
Oh, yeah, for sure. I always knew that I was strong, but, like, I didn't realize how strong I really was for going through all that. Like, I always was like, yeah, like, I'm. I'm strong, but, like, truly looking back at all the things I went through, all the people I dealt with, all the emotions I felt, I'm really proud I came out whole from that whole situation. And I have my family to thank for that because they're literally the best. But genuinely, that was something I found out about myself. And I also found out that I'm more comfortable talking about my experiences now. Of course, like, yeah, like, yes, you're writing a book, but still, some people write things. People talk about things, but yet they still don't necessarily want to talk about it. I feel like I'm very open and honest about how I feel about things. You know, I feel like I learned that I'm kind of like an open book, and I'm happy to, like, have these discussions, and I'm not as scared as I used to be. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of what I've learned. I still keep a lot of the traits from when I was younger, but I've also changed a lot, too. And I've realized that I've changed a lot because now I feel like, man, I'm not scared of these people anymore. I don't care what people say. Whereas before, I was so nervous about what people would think. And, you know, I never want to hurt people's feelings that, like, you know. But at the same time, I was like, you know what? Like, other people get to share their stories, and I'm not gonna share mine because, you know, I'm scared of what people might think. That's not fair. And. Yeah, so that was something I kind of learned about myself, that I'm kind of an open book. And I'm still, like, a work in progress, too. Yeah. And I probably always will be.
- [29:21]
B
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And even thinking about growing up doing something like competitive dance does put you in a position where you are being judged constantly. That is the name of the game. And so it's like, yeah, you're used to being in a position where people are constantly judging what you're doing and how you move and how you look and all of these things that it probably is really hard to shed some of that feeling, like you're just being judged constantly. And, like, it's normal for people to come at you with judgment constantly.
- [29:56]
C
Right?
- [29:56]
B
Yeah.
- [29:57]
C
I feel like it was so normalized for me where when it happens, I don't think anything really of it, because again, like, to me, I'm like, oh, that's normal. But honestly, like, it's not. It's not normal. Yeah.
- [30:12]
B
Or even the resilience that I'm sure you had to develop in that environment, to you probably felt normal. And it's also, like, that's actually an incredibly high level of resilience.
- [30:23]
C
Yes, exactly. And that's another thing. Like, growing up, I watched things, and I'm like, wow. Like, at the time, I was like, yeah, this is just normal. This is just the way things are. But, like, it's not normal. There were certain parts where I knew weren't normal. Like, some things were normal, some things weren't. And I knew that even if I knew something wasn't normal, it's also all I knew. So when certain things would happen and people are like, well, why does she react that way? I don't know. Because for me, it was just kind of the way things were. And even if I didn't like it or even if I knew that that wasn't really how it should, I don't really have control or power or the power to, like, change things. So I think that's also, like, another perspective on it as well.
- [31:13]
A
Yeah.
- [31:13]
B
It's like that's your world.
- [31:14]
C
Yeah.
- [31:14]
B
You don't know any different.
- [31:16]
C
Yeah.
- [31:16]
B
You're like in a bubble.
- [31:17]
C
Yeah, exactly. And I think anyone who has been in sports honestly can kind of like relate to some degree of just like being in a really like intense environment and like doing certain things and you're like, oh yeah, like pushing myself till, you know, like I can't move anymore. Like that's normal. I don't know if that's necessarily normal, but it's all, you know, so unlearning bad habits and also just like recognizing when things are normal and recognizing like things can be better.
- [31:54]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:54]
B
Or just because you could do something doesn't mean you should.
- [31:57]
C
Exactly, exactly. Yeah.
- [32:00]
B
How has your relationship with dance evolved over time and what is it like now?
- [32:04]
C
It is like always like changing and evolving. My relationship with dance has been quite the journey. I started dancing at the age of two, so I started dancing when I was like really young. And I talk about my dance journey a lot in the book I write about, you know, the times where I felt like quitting in the times where I finally got back into the studio after time off and like kind of how that affected me especially like mentally. But for me right now, my relationship with dance is good. It's a positive. I still dance from time to time. Every now and then I actually danced in college. I was a part of a student led dance club and that was like a lot of fun, very therapeutic and very healing. It was great. I don't get to dance as much as I would like to anymore, but not because I don't like it. It's more just because I'm busy. Dance is always going to be something that's a part of me because it's just like who I am at my core. It is still hard for me to like kind of like put myself out there with dancing nowadays, especially with. I know we've just talked about like, oh, it doesn't matter what people say. People are very critical and it still hurts.
- [33:21]
B
You're still human.
- [33:22]
C
Exactly. It still hurts. Still human. So I like to keep like certain parts of my dancing, like kind of like just to me because it is, it is scary out there and I don't, I don't know if I really want to deal with people saying crazy things.
- [33:36]
B
Yeah. And also the people who talk the craziest, it's like, let's see you dance. And they probably can't, but they have the most to say.
- [33:43]
C
They have the most to say. It's like, okay, then can you do a split? Right. I doubt you can. No. Right. Like, I'm like, I. I don't even dance every day anymore, and I can still do my splits. Like, please give me a break.
- [33:58]
B
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. I am glad to hear that you had that experience in college where you got to experience dance for fun. Like, that does sound really, really healing.
- [34:08]
C
Yeah, it was. It was. So now when I dance, it's genuinely just for fun. Like, I don't go to, like, dance auditions or anything. That. That's not my thing. But I've had so much fun just getting to dance for myself, and it has brought me so much joy, especially over the past, like, four or five years. It's been a really beautiful journey.
- [34:31]
A
Yeah.
- [34:31]
B
Are there any things that dance, even outside of your experiences doing it competitively, that dance as a practice has taught you or qualities that it's instilled in you that you're glad you have?
- [34:44]
C
Yes. Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. Dance has taught me so much. This is a silly one. I'll get into, like, deeper ones, but, like, a very silly one of mine is, like, spatial awareness.
- [34:57]
B
That's a good one.
- [34:59]
C
When I go out and about and through the public, people are not aware of their surroundings. Like, they're not spatially aware. And I feel like if everyone was everyone, if everyone grew up dancing or, like, had some kind of dance training, they'd be more aware of, like, their environment or, like, their spatial awareness. I'm so happy that I have, like. I'm not saying, like, I'm. I'm the most spatially aware, but I'm just saying it helps. And I think that everyone needs dance lessons in order to be spatially aware. Anyway, moving on from that one.
- [35:32]
B
That is a good one, though.
- [35:33]
C
Thank you. But moving on, it's taught me so much. Like, being a hard worker, being, I guess, like, what. What's drawing a blank on the word? You would probably think of it before me. I can't even think right now.
- [35:46]
B
Like, discipline or, like, thank you.
- [35:48]
C
Great. Discipline. Yes. It made me very disciplined, for sure. Making sure you get to dance on time. Making sure you have the right tights, the right dance clothes. Making sure, like, all of those things add up. And it has truly made me who I am today. Like, having discipline, having work ethic, and having that courage to, like, even if you mess up, to keep going, to go again, to keep getting better. It teaches you so much about yourself and also, just, like, about your body as well. I've learned a lot about, like, how My body works and, like, when to take breaks and when I need to, like, push myself more and when I know, like, hey, like, it's time to kind of, like, take a step back, reset, and then, like, go again tomorrow. Like, you know, it's helped with so many things. It's taught me how to work with difficult people because I feel like just in any kind of world, you're just gonna deal with. With difficult people. Even without the TV show, you know, you're going to work with interesting people. I mean, the list goes on. Dance provides so much to people, and there's so much education to be learned from dance as well. Like, the history of dance itself is, like, so rich in culture. So there's so much we can gain from dance, like, with its history, but also just, like, about how your body works, how your body moves, and then also how it trains your mind. It makes you a really strong person, and it makes you, like, a courageous person. And it makes you someone who, you know, doesn't take no for an answer. It keeps you going, and I think it's really special. So whenever people ask me, they're like, oh, like, do you wish? You never know. Like, dance is amazing. And I encourage, like, anyone who is even interested to go take a dance lesson to learn how to dance. Like, it is so freeing and it's so fun. And when you dance for fun, it genuinely brings you so much joy. And, yeah, it's really important. It's really important. And I do think that there's. For me, I've seen the good in, like, the really bad parts of dance, like, the really ugly of it all. And I still think that, like, kids should go to dance class and they should be in that environment, in a good environment, maybe not the same one I was in, but they should be in an environment where they can express themselves freely and have fun with dance. It's such a great tool.
- [38:25]
A
Yeah.
- [38:25]
C
Yeah.
- [38:26]
B
That piece about that, like, body awareness is so huge. I used to, in a past life, be a personal trainer and a fitness instructor. And I could always tell when a client. And no matter how in or out of shape they were, if they had some sort of background either doing dance or some sort of sport when they were younger, because there is this sense of body awareness and then also this sense of, like, coachability.
- [38:48]
C
Yes.
- [38:48]
B
You know what I mean? Where it's like, you can tell them how to do something and you can tell that they're processing it and metabolizing it and doing it in ways that people who didn't have those experiences of movement when they were younger. It was never impossible, but it just took them longer to get there.
- [39:05]
C
Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like it's impossible, but I think things just click faster. Whenever you've had that kind of upbringing in a dance environment or any kind of like athletic environment, you're just very in tune with your body and its capabilities.
- [39:25]
A
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- [44:32]
B
Earlier, we had talked a bit about when you had gone back to rewatch the show with your mom and kind of that experience together. Obviously you and your mom were on the show together. It was, it was very much centered around your relationship. I'm curious, now that you have revisited a lot of these stories, you put them in the book. Is there anything that your mom has now learned about your experience that maybe she didn't get or catch the first time around?
- [44:54]
C
Ooh, that's a really good question. I feel like I don't know if she has things where that have come up for her, but I'm sure there has been things that have come up for her over, like the past few years writing this book where she has learned more about like, how I felt or like how I saw certain things. And it's very interesting, like talking about certain moments with my mom too, because I'm like, oh, yeah, this happened. And my mom was like, what? Well, like, she was like, oh, that's what you thought of that moment. Like, this is what really happened. This is what someone so said. Like, that's why I was mad. And you're like, wow, my mind is blown.
- [45:33]
B
Like, yeah, like you remember things so differently and have you remember things so differently.
- [45:38]
C
Yeah, yeah. Or like some things that would happen, like, to me or I would say for me, I always knew that my mom was like, strong and would like go to bat for me. But now as an adult, like, I don't know how she did that genuinely. Like, she went seven seasons on a reality TV show and didn't curse. Like, that's like actually unheard of. Like, that's actually unheard of. Like, I don't know how she did it. My mom and I have a very special relationship. Like, we have a very strong bond. She's literally my best friend. I learned that that's like not the norm for like, a lot of people. Which is very interesting because for me, like, my mom was like my rock, my world, you know, I always knew but like, I really like, know and appreciate now how much she really did for me back then. And I know, like, people, honestly, actually the hardest part of, like, writing the book or like, the hardest part about, like, talking about anything from the show is people saying that my mom was a bad mom. That's, like, the only thing that truly gets under my skin. You can say I was a bad dancer. You can say what? That's like, the one thing that truly gets under my skin. Because my mom was never a bad mom. And she genuinely, like, always put me first, no matter what. And I hope that when people, like, read this book, they realize everything she really did and understand, like, the complexities of, like, the situations. I know that people, they're always going to have their opinions, you know, like, not everyone's also going to care about all of this. But I do just have to recognize being an adult and seeing what she did, I don't know how she did it. I wouldn't be able to do that. Like, I hold her composure, be able to put people in their place without being, like, cruel and mean spirited. It really is amazing. And it, like, shows her character, you know? So that's something that, like, personally I have learned throughout this whole process. I'm like, dang, mom. Like, you really. You really did that. I don't know how you did it. And she was an educator. She was a principal for the first two seasons of the show. She was still a principal of a middle and elementary school. She has a husband. She has two other kids besides me, you know, she was writing her dissertation for her doctorate at the time. Like, she did and was on a reality show. Like, there was. There's. She was doing so much. It's really incredible how she was able to, like, keep her composure and be able to, like, also come out whole and, like, not lose her mind.
- [48:29]
B
No easy feat.
- [48:30]
C
Yeah.
- [48:31]
B
I mean, I think that's one of the biggest things about adulthood. Getting older and seeing your parents in that different light or seeing them as whole humans themselves. Because when you're younger, you really only think of them as, well, this is my mom. And that's just who she is.
- [48:46]
C
Right.
- [48:46]
B
And then when you get older and you can see the whole human, it just gives you such a different perspective.
- [48:51]
C
It does. It's weird seeing your parents as people. I'm like, what do you mean? You're not just my mom, like, right. It's like, I don't know, it's. It's really crazy to see my mom be, like, human, even though, like, she always was, but, like, she's like a superwoman. In my eyes, she's a superhero, you know?
- [49:13]
A
Yeah.
- [49:13]
B
I feel like that's part of the frontal lobe development. Around that same, you start to realize, like, oh, whoa. Now that I'm an adult, it's like, oh, my goodness. Like, what were you doing? That's a lot. Yeah.
- [49:25]
C
Like, oh, my gosh, Mom. Like, do you need a hug? Right, Right. Yeah. So that has been just so interesting also. Just navigating life with her and how she felt about things and. Yeah. She's also very excited for the book.
- [49:43]
A
I'm sure.
- [49:43]
C
She also is very excited. Yeah, I'm sure.
- [49:46]
B
And it sounds like has been very supportive throughout the whole process.
- [49:49]
C
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Has been supportive throughout the whole process. Even, like, my. My dad, my brothers, like, my friends. Like, I have, like, a really great support system who is helping me in, like, any way, who has been there, like, as a personal lean on and have just been amazing. Have been rock stars, you know, I have a team of people helping me with this, and they've been amazing, and I'm excited that I have, like, a team who's, like, rallied behind me, you know? Like, it doesn't feel like I'm just going into this alone, you know, I have people I can truly lean on.
- [50:28]
A
Yeah.
- [50:29]
C
Yeah.
- [50:29]
B
And I think what's so important about telling honest stories like this is also you can kind of give that feeling to other people who may have had their versions of this experience and felt really alone in it and realized that they aren't.
- [50:42]
C
Yes. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I definitely want people to be able to, like, take this book and see a little bit of themselves in it, you know? I mean, this story is truly, like, an underdog story, you know? And I think a lot of people have felt this way and have been in not these situations, but have been in very similar situations. And it's important to tell these stories because everyone's story matters, and the more we share, the more good we can do, you know, and we don't make the same mistakes, and we learn and we grow, and that's why telling stories are so important, you know, Knowledge is power.
- [51:29]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [51:30]
B
One thing that you just said about people who feel like they may have been underdogs at some point, I would love to get a little bit more into that, because I do think when people have experiences where they are consistently being underestimated, I'm so curious what that does to someone over time. Does that start to carry over into other areas where you feel like you're being underestimated? In other parts of life, do you feel this need to. Really need to prove yourself, even in areas where you may not need to or where.
- [52:03]
A
Not.
- [52:03]
B
Where it may not be necessary? I'm just curious if you've had any experiences that felt like that.
- [52:08]
A
For sure.
- [52:09]
C
I think that, like, being the underdog, like, really, like, has grown into, like, different areas in my life. When you're in an environment like that for so long and you are just told constantly, like, every day you're not good enough, you know, like, people are trying to get rid of me. It's a lot. And I feel like it has definitely kind of, like, moved into other parts of my life. But I try really hard, and I'm. I've been doing the work and I've done it, but it is really challenging to. To all. It's really challenging to want to always have to prove yourself, you know, and.
- [52:52]
B
Exhausting.
- [52:53]
C
It's exhausting. It's exhausting. And although I feel like, you know, I'm always trying to prove myself, at the end of the day, I do realize, like, I'm really just trying to, like, get better or, like, prove stuff for myself instead of, like, really other people. I hold myself up to, like, a really high standard, and I feel like, do I need to? No. And I'm still working on that. But for me, even just, like, knowing, like, hey, I don't necessarily have to do certain things unless I genuinely want to. I don't have to prove myself to anyone except really myself, you know, and that has helped me a lot, like, reframing it, like, not having to prove myself to other people. I'm not trying to prove myself to, you know, past instructors, past teachers, past whoever, like, or even just, like, you know, the audience watching. I'm not trying to prove myself to like, them. It's really just for myself, you know, Like, I'm taking these moments to just kind of, like, be selfish and, like, not care about how people perceive me. And of course, there's always times where I get in my head, but I am just trying to be the best version of myself. And sometimes it's hard. It's a hard, like, balance. Sometimes the line gets blurred between, like, you know, working on yourself and, like, trying to prove something. But it's very important to just kind of reframe it as, like, I'm always going to be a work in progress. I'm always going to be working on myself and always just want the best for myself. So as long as I put me first, then I don't really have to prove myself to anybody else. So, yeah, that's something that's helped me. But I do also recognize that, like, being the underdog, like, there's so many layers to it. And of course, everyone's story is different, but at the end of the day, like, I feel like underdogs always end up on top because they're hard workers and they get what they want. I'm just always going to keep going no matter. Even if paths shift no matter what. Like, I'm always going to keep doing what's best for me, which I think.
- [55:11]
B
Is, like, the best thing you can do.
- [55:13]
C
Yeah.
- [55:13]
B
And the only thing we really can.
- [55:14]
C
Yeah. And honestly, it's very healing and it's very, like, it's very calming. It's very settling to, like, know that you don't owe anyone anything. You don't have to prove yourself like you have. All you really have to do is just make sure that you're good and you're on your right path.
- [55:36]
A
Yeah.
- [55:36]
C
Yeah.
- [55:37]
B
I think, like, us feeling good is the definition of good enough.
- [55:42]
C
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
- [55:44]
B
Even though we're in many situations where we are being graded in some scored in all of these things, ultimately we're not in. In the grand scheme of things and how we show up as people and. And how we feel each day. And coming to that point, as hard as it is, is really where we come full circle.
- [56:02]
C
Yeah, for sure. For sure.
- [56:04]
A
Yeah.
- [56:05]
B
Nia, thank you so much for joining me.
- [56:07]
C
Thank you so much, Les.
- [56:08]
B
I appreciate such a good conversation. I'm so excited for audience to get to listen, also for our audience to.
- [56:14]
A
Get to read the book and remind.
- [56:16]
B
Us when it's coming out.
- [56:17]
C
Yes. Bottom of the pyramid comes out November 4th. I'm so excited.
- [56:22]
B
Perfect.
- [56:22]
A
And I think we'll probably be having.
- [56:23]
B
This episode out around then, so we'll.
- [56:25]
A
Link it in the show notes so everyone can check it out.
- [56:27]
C
Okay. Yay.
- [56:28]
B
Yay.
- [56:28]
C
Check it out, guys, please. Thank you so much. Thank you.
- [56:32]
B
Perfect. And thank you all so much for tuning in. So if you enjoy this episode, please.
- [56:36]
A
Make sure you rate review.
- [56:38]
B
You can see subscribe on Apple, Spotify.
- [56:41]
A
Or YouTube, wherever you like to listen and watch. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of she's so Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show. Notes for resources, links and discount codes and if you are really feeling lucky, we would appreciate your rating and your review. It really helps us be able to improve the show, to get great guests and to understand what you want to hear more of. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week.
- [57:28]
B
Hi, I'm Sif Hyder, the founder of Hooray. I'm a wellness entrepreneur and digital creator and and this is my show, the Dream Bigger Podcast. Listen, I love dreaming big, but you know what I love more? Actually having the resources to make those big dreams happen. And hey, dreams can sometimes be private jets, but other times they can look a little something like having the best skin of your damn life or starting a successful business or delving into spirituality. So on this podcast, I chat with experts and thought leaders from different fields about their tips and tricks on doing exactly that. Remember to subscribe we drop new episodes every Tuesday, so see you then. Please note that this episode may contain.
- [58:10]
A
Paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.
- [58:14]
B
Individuals on the show may have a.
- [58:15]
A
Direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.