Loading summary
Transcript288 lines
- [00:01]
Host Intro
The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. Let's be honest, a lot of people say they want more money, better opportunities, and bigger partnerships, but very few are operating in a way that actually supports that level of expansion. Because wanting more is one thing and being structured for more is another. Today's guest is the woman you want in your corner before you sign the contract, send the invoice, or negotiate the deal. Cameron Monet is a lawyer, creator and tech founder, helping entrepreneurs close, smarter, protect their work, and stop participating in their own undervaluation. If getting what you want is the goal, this episode will give you the legal tea.
- [00:57]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Welcome back to she's so Lucky. So all month long we've been talking about how to get what we want. We've examined that from multiple different angles. I had my solo episode that was helping us be more audacious. We talked to A.C. brown about the spiritual elements of getting what we want. We talked to Danielle Robay about being gutsy and believing in ourselves and being willing to ask for what we want and the right questions to ask to get what we want. And as I was going through and thinking about this idea of how to get what we want, and I love the things that we've covered, I also wanted to give you guys more tools. Like we can manifest all day long, we can affirm and believe in ourselves all day long, but there are also real tactical, structural things that we need to have in place to actually get what we want and be able to
- [01:45]
Host Intro
protect it and, and keep it.
- [01:47]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And that's what we're going to talk about today. So I would like to welcome, actually a friend of mine to the show who's going to give us the legal tea on getting exactly what we want. Cameron, welcome to the show.
- [01:58]
Cameron Monet
Thank you. I am so excited and I love the legal tea. Let's get into it.
- [02:01]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Listen, that's your.
- [02:02]
Cameron Monet
Okay, that's my third word. That's what you do.
- [02:04]
Host (She's So Lucky)
That's what you're giving us.
- [02:05]
Cameron Monet
What I give.
- [02:06]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Exactly. Okay, so before we get directly into the legal T, I would like our audience to get to know you a little bit better, hear a little bit more about your trajectory getting into law. What made you want to specialize in working with Create?
- [02:19]
Cameron Monet
I love this question because it's very non traditional. I talk to so many law students that want to get into the creator economy, whether they're creative in nature. Like I was. So taking it all the way back to childhood. I was a theater kid. I loved being on stage. Fast forward to college and of course you Gotta pick a major. And at that point, honestly, I didn't know what I wanted to do. And my lovely advisor, he was an attorney and he was like, how about you try pre law? And I was like, sir, I hate school. Why would I do that? He was like, you like to read, you like to write, and you're persuasive. That's all that it takes. And I was like, that's just like theater. So I tried some mock trial classes, fell in love with it, and I decided to go to law school. During this time, I also started my YouTube channel. So it was so many different things going on. I needed a creative outlet outside of college and academia. So I started my YouTube channel doing beauty and hair and just loving being back in a creative space and more of like a non traditional way than theater. And then of course, I go to law school. I thought I had to be a serious law student. I said, oh, I can't do this YouTube. I can't be online. That lasted one semester. I said, oh, girl, we gotta do something. But at that point, I wasn't doing my hair, I wasn't doing my makeup. I was like, y' all gonna have to get these vlogs. And that's when I started sharing, like the real behind the scenes of being a law student, going through that journey. Cause I didn't really see a lot of black women doing that at the time. This was 2016, by the way. So you were early, Listen, very early. I was enjoying the duality of learning the law, but also still being creative. And then, of course, anybody that's going to law school, we always hear, how can you help us now that you're a law student? And I was like, girl, I don't know contracts. I don't know what to do. But I was helping my friends and learning along the way by helping myself as well. Cause I was also doing brand partnerships. And then that's when this whole idea of being a creator economy lawyer kind of came up.
- [03:52]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [03:53]
Host (She's So Lucky)
I think what I most appreciate about your work is the lane that you have created for yourself. Because I've had actually quite a few guests who have experiences in law, whether they're still practicing attorneys or whether they left their law careers. A lot of feedback that we get from the girlies who are in law is just how restricting it can be.
- [04:12]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Very.
- [04:12]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Especially if someone goes to like a big firm and follows maybe more traditional or maybe their corporate counsel. It can be very constricting and they struggle to be able to, like, express themselves to do things on the side to have creative outlets. And you've created, like, a really beautiful career where you're able to do all of that.
- [04:30]
Cameron Monet
I say I had an unfair advantage because I started online so early. So I was just organically reading my own contracts, helping my friends. And then through law school, I was. I was seeing the industry grow. We saw more people making more money, where now they had, like, standards where you can monetize your YouTube. Like, in 2014, when I started, you pressed a button. It's crazy. I got my first hundred dollars. I was like, oh, I'm geeked. I got groceries on me in the dorms. But then, like, in 2016-2017-2018-2019, we're seeing like, oh, $10,000, $20,000, $50,000, $100,000. I said, oh, this is growing. But even then, I didn't even see how big it would be. Now being a $250 billion industry, I would have never known back then that that's what it was going to grow to be. So I did employment litigation. So I still did the traditional route right out of law school. And I say it still was very beneficial for me. I had somebody that wasn't a friend practicing law say, hey, how much do you charge for contracts? And I was like, that's it. That's what I'm gonna do.
- [05:24]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yep, I see opportunity.
- [05:27]
Cameron Monet
Okay, I'm take that. Yeah, give me your money.
- [05:28]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Most definitely. So wait, you just said something interesting. That the creator economy is valued at 250 billion. Is that currently or what it's projected to be in the future?
- [05:36]
Cameron Monet
Currently. And it's actually projected to be over 480 billion by 2027.
- [05:41]
Host (She's So Lucky)
That's crazy.
- [05:42]
Cameron Monet
Isn't that crazy? Like, what other industries are literally doubling in like, two, three years?
- [05:46]
Host Intro
Yeah.
- [05:46]
Cameron Monet
Insane.
- [05:47]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And when we say that it's worth that much money, like 250 now, 480 in a couple of years. Where does that come from? Does that mean that's how much brands are paying creators? Does that mean that's how much creators are pumping into the economy? Like, if we look at how much an industry is worth, what goes into that number?
- [06:03]
Cameron Monet
Great question. And people always assume that it's just about the monetary value that creators are making. That's a part of it. Right. It also includes, like, ad spend. How much are marketers contributing to the creator space? And that includes digital and even just more traditional means of marketing. It's kind of all encompassing because now creators aren't just online. Right. Like, we see them in magazines. We see them getting more traditional roles. So the creator economy is growing fast. When I'd say 2014, 2015, 2016, it was really just like influencer marketing deals. But creators are more than just influencers. They are content creators. They are UGC creators, and so much more founders. Founders, okay, CEOs, so many investors. I think we're going to see more of that because at some point you grow your platform and you have these opportunities in front of you and you're like, wait a minute, if I can sell this brand's product, what else can I sell to my audience? That has my. The know, like and trust factor.
- [06:47]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah, that's mine.
- [06:48]
Cameron Monet
That's mine. That I can control. Because these social media platforms, child. You don't know what you gonna get.
- [06:53]
Host (She's So Lucky)
It's a mess every week.
- [06:55]
Cameron Monet
It's something new every other day.
- [06:56]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah, yeah, it's a mess. I'm curious about ways that you see the creator space evolving from a business standpoint, not because it's necessarily oversaturated, but because I also think from an audience perspective, like, somebody may hear that, like, the creator economy is worth this much money and maybe they already kind of feel away about influencers. Right. People don't necessarily feel great about content creators because of that perception that they're like, really overpaid. They create over consumption. So then they might hear that and be like, why is the industry worth that much? Why is money not being circulated in other areas? There is this kind of backlash in public perception that I do think we're seeing towards content creators. Do you see that continuing and how do you think the industry is going to shift to navigate that?
- [07:48]
Cameron Monet
I would almost argue 2020 kind of like broke this fourth wall of the creator economy, because people that really didn't want to be creators at all or didn't even, maybe they weren't ever online. With COVID going on. People were online, so they're online. And naturally a lot of them went viral because not that many people were on TikTok, for example. So everyday people were getting exposed to this industry that was kind of like hidden behind people that either wanted to be online or wanted to be viral or had certain connections. But that was like broken with TikTok. And I would say it helped the industry a little bit because people were like, wait a minute, like, this is kind of hard, or like, how do I grow my platform? Or how do I manage this? Or how do I read this contract? Or how do I negotiate these brand deals? I think it did expose the industry like, oh, this is Actually a business and a career. Even in the legal profession, like, a lot more lawyers were like, oh, wait, like, oh, it's money over here. Let me get some clients. So I think that kind of helped. But I do still think there's still a negative connotation, especially to the word influencer when I think everyone has a level of influence. But I do think the more that people talk about what they're doing and talk about the business aspect, we're gonna see more, I'd say respect to the industry.
- [08:51]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah, it'll be really interesting. I think that also a lot of the negative connotation that comes around the idea of influencers and how people think about influencers is because it's a women, female dominated industry.
- [09:03]
Cameron Monet
Tea, let's cancel.
- [09:04]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Let's get into it.
- [09:05]
Cameron Monet
Let's really get into it.
- [09:05]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Because you see an industry that is dominated by a lot of women who are doing things that look easy, that aren't necessarily. Now, I will also say, as a longtime content creator, creating content is not brain surgery. We are not, like, saving lives. We are not in the schools with the kids, like, shaping the next generation in that way.
- [09:28]
Cameron Monet
Yeah.
- [09:29]
Host (She's So Lucky)
So I say that to give a bit of understanding of, like, I understand what the challenges of the job are. You do lose a lot of privacy. There's a lot of pressure, there's a lot of expectations. And yes, we're not performing brain surgery and like, saving the world in that way. Exactly. Both of those things can be true. But I think that people see this job that they perceive as easy, even though that's not the case of people doing things that appear to be everyday things and they're women on top of that. And Lord knows, people don't like to see women doing only but so well. And then don't let that woman have some melanin on top of that and then start doing too well.
- [10:04]
Cameron Monet
Don't let her look too happy with her job.
- [10:05]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Don't, don't do it. And then everybody's rubbed the wrong way.
- [10:08]
Cameron Monet
I think there will always be that to some extent, unfortunately. But I do think there's a lot more male creators that are starting to come out of the woodworks and do pretty well. Yeah. But I think, unfortunately, no matter what, like, being a woman is always going to be somewhat of a threat to so many different people just for the fact of, like, oh, women are thriving and they're succeeding and they're happy and they're joyful and they love their career and they're making good money too, God forbid. Oh, My God. God forbid a girl got some cash. Okay. I think it's somewhat of a superpower because so many people, one think they can get in the industry, and then when they try, they realize, oh, it's actually harder than I expect, either to maintain or even just grow off the top, or they just want to use it for some other purpose. I don't think everyone has to get in the creator economy and like, just to be a creator. I think that's what we're starting to see where we're like, okay, I'm making all this money, now what do I do? Or maybe I'm not making as much money, but I'm getting opportunities. How can I leverage that? So I think us as women, we just need to use that to our power and just like, ignore the naysayers. Cause child, they gonna be mad either way.
- [11:03]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Most definitely either way, yeah. I would also love to talk a little bit more about some kind of hard skills that people could use, whether they're a creator or not. I think about things like understanding contracts. I think about things like negotiating around this theme of how to get what we want. I mean, everybody doesn't all want the same things, but there's a lot of things that a lot of us do want that wouldn't hurt most people. Having some more money wouldn't hurt. Having a better job.
- [11:28]
Cameron Monet
Yeah.
- [11:28]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Wouldn't hurt. Having better options. Yeah, wouldn't hurt.
- [11:32]
Cameron Monet
That's true.
- [11:33]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And what often comes on the other end of actually receiving that is being willing to do something like negotiate. Whether you're a creator, negotiating a rate, whether you're a corporate girly negotiating a salary or some benefits. And I will be the first to say, negotiating is so scary to me, girl, it's so scary. And I want to be better about it because I know that in order to get to where I want, it's on the other side of doing it. So for people who may feel a little timid when it comes to the art of negotiation, what would you say to help them?
- [12:04]
Cameron Monet
I would say it's one of the strongest forms of self love. Like every time you stand up for yourself, because you usually have some type of indication, like us as women, we have this superpower intuition. It really is real. When you really lean into it and you hear yourself the first time, that's the thing, ladies. It's the first time where you get an offer and you're like, that feels a bit low. That's it. You don't need to question anything else. Go after a higher number. Also with negotiation, it comes with just practical skills. People don't know how to do it. And something like I learned in trial team, I was on trial team while I was in law school is like preparation breeds confidence. And when you're unprepared, you're not confident. Therefore you don't want to negotiate. So if you don't know how or where to start or where to begin, or maybe you aren't aware of your worth when it comes to creator economy. And a lot of that is like ebbs and flows. It's like this industry that shows up automatically and some people are making 10k, some people are making a thousand. They can be in the same following range and same expertise. How do we find a way to give each person confidence to negotiate the price that they feel comfortable? Because if you're comfortable with 10K, you're comfortable with 1000. That's great. Just make sure that you're comfortable with it and listen to that first inkling. I always say go higher because you just never know. You might be surprised. But just learning the practical steps of negotiation I think will help anybody be more confident.
- [13:09]
Host Intro
Yeah.
- [13:15]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
- [13:36]
Our relationship with food and our bodies is deeply personal. And for so many people, that relationship can get really complicated. Maybe it's years of dieting, food guilt, or feeling like you constantly have to make up for what you ate. If any of that sounds familiar, I just want you to know that you are not broken and you are definitely not alone. Equip is a virtual eating disorder treatment program that meets you where you are. You can access care from home with a team that's really built around your needs. You get a therapist, dietitian, medical provider, and a peer mentor who's been through recovery themselves. This isn't one size fits all treatment. EQIP personalizes your care based on your age, identity, goals and schedule. Whether you're in college, parenting, working, or all three, they make it work for your real life. And the support is deep. You're not just fixing symptoms, you're unlearning patterns, rebuilding trust in your body, and creating a relationship with food that feels peaceful. Equip takes most major insurance plans, treats people of all ages and backgrounds, and understands that Recovery looks different for everyone. But the one thing that stays true, you deserve to feel at home in your body. To learn more and see if equip is right for you, visit Equip Health Lucky. That's Equip Health Lucky Equipment. I don't know about you, but I am a different person. When I'm well rested, I'm more kind, functional, emotionally regulated. And it all starts with a good mattress. And for me, that's Lisa. I've been sleeping on a Leesa mattress for a while now, and truly, it's that perfect combo of supportive and cloudlike. You lay down and your whole body goes. Thank you. Lisa designs mattresses for all kinds of sleepers, side back stomach combo. Their mattresses are made with high quality cooling foam and responsive layers that keep you comfortable and supported all night. I don't wake up sore, I don't overheat, and I don't lie there wondering why my bed feels like a yoga mat wrapped in regret. What I also love is Lisa is a certified B corp. So they're committed to good stuff beyond just comfortable. That includes sustainable materials, fair labor practices, and donating mattresses to families in need. So you can actually feel good about where you're getting your rest ready for better sleep. Lisa is a B corp committed to quality equity and good sleep for all.
- [16:12]
Host Intro
Go to Lisa.com for 25% off of mattresses, plus get an extra $50 off with promo code LUCKY exclusive for my listeners. That's L E-E-S A.com promo code LUCKY for 25% OFF of mattresses, plus an extra $50 off. Support our show and let them know we sent you after checkout. That's Lisa.com promo code Lucky.
- [16:40]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Okay, I want to dig into that more. One, I want to talk about what preparation for a negotiation looks like. What do you need to know to be prepared? Do you need to understand, like, if you're in corporate, what market rate is for the role that you're in? Or is it understanding the analytics of how you performed, whether you're a creator or it's like projects in corporate. Like if someone knows that they're going to need to walk into a negotiation, how should they prepare?
- [17:05]
Cameron Monet
I think the first thing is a lot more simple than we think is to ask. Like you have a right to ask how much people are making in your company. You have a right to ask other creators, whether your friends or maybe you have a connection with them in your agency or something. Ask them. And a lot of times we don't ask that's why you don't get. Okay, so close mouths, don't get fed. I always say, ask your community, lean on your community. That's why it's so important to network and, like, really build strong connections, especially in your industry. So first step is ask. See what else is going on. Next step is know who you're negotiating with. Know everything you can about them. Whether it's a brand, whether it's an agency that's representing the brand, or if you're in corporate, who. Who's gonna be in that room? Is it one person? Is it two people? Who. All over there. Because understanding that also can help you decide how you should approach it. Because there's gonna be different types of people, right? Like, maybe, you know, hey, they're a little bit more stern. They wanna see the numbers. Mm. Okay. Bring the stats. Maybe they're a little bit more laid back and you can come and say, hey, like, over the course of X, Y, Z time. I did XYZ and I would love to have a discussion. So knowing who's in the room really helps too.
- [17:59]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah, that's a really good point. Okay, and then you also mentioned something about, like, the steps of negotiation. What are the steps?
- [18:07]
Cameron Monet
First things first. Start higher. Like, uncomfortably higher. Reasonably. Right. Something that I think a lot of us do when we're negotiating. We're like, okay, some people know, like, start higher. Of course, like, you want to start higher, land somewhere in the middle. But you need to know why you got that number. Even if you're just going to go a little bit higher just to, like, see if you can get it. Know why? Because if someone comes back and say, how did you get that number? You should have a calculation on the back. You don't have to give them all your tea up front. I think a lot of creators, I see it all the time where the brand gives you the deliverables and they list the amount per deliverable. No, no, no, no. They ask you, what's the rate for the listed deliverables? Give them the whole number, but make sure you know those calculations on the end. And that also gives you a little bit more confidence because you're not just pulling a number out of the ceiling. You're able to give them, like, a reason behind it. So start higher. The reason behind that is actually. Have a quick story. I had a friend who, it was her first time kind of negotiating, and she gave a number to the brand because they asked for her rate. She didn't ask the budget, she just gave them the rate. And she gave them the rate she wanted, not a higher rate. So let's just say, for example, she said $5,000. Luckily for her, the person on the other side was looking out for her. They said, okay, we actually have a budget of $15,000. I'm gonna ask you what your rate is again. A lot of people don't do that. Right. So because that person was looking out. Now, moving forward, what does she do? One, always go higher, and two, always ask for the budget.
- [19:24]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah, that's a good story. I like to ask for the budget first.
- [19:27]
Cameron Monet
Yeah.
- [19:27]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Always just to see.
- [19:29]
Cameron Monet
Yeah.
- [19:29]
Host (She's So Lucky)
I was listening to a podcast episode. I think it was Mel Robbins. And Mel was talking about how she first started off. Like, public speaking.
- [19:37]
Cameron Monet
Yeah.
- [19:38]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And her first paid public speaking gig, they asked her what her rate was, and she, like, didn't know what to say for rate. And basically somebody advised her, like, take, you know, whatever their budget is, whatever they're, like, willing to pay you this first time, set that as your baseline, and moving forward, next time someone asks you your rate, double it.
- [19:56]
Cameron Monet
Y.
- [19:57]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And I was like, ooh, yeah, I'm going to try that. Because I be asked for my speaking rate, and I'm like, I don't know. Until next time, I'm going to see. We'll see.
- [20:05]
Cameron Monet
That's great. Also, whatever budget they tell you, nine times out of ten, you can double or triple it. Like, every time. You'll start to notice it when you start to implement some of these things. Like every single time, if they say it's 10,000, I'm like, it's probably actually closer to 20, maybe 25 or 30. So I'm gonna go somewhere in the middle and see what they can do the benefit with that is, let's say the rate I wanted was 10,000, but if I get a little bit more, it's like, it's a benefit to everybody.
- [20:27]
Host Intro
Great.
- [20:27]
Cameron Monet
Because they probably were gonna spend more and I actually gained more. So a win is a win.
- [20:30]
Host (She's So Lucky)
So we're in a negotiation. We know that we're gonna aim a little bit higher. How do we manage the back and forth? What if we throw a number out there and they're like, no, it really
- [20:38]
Cameron Monet
depends on how low their response is, because there are going to be situations where walking away is okay, yeah, don't just say yes because you want the deal so bad. Okay. Stand ten toes down. That's also something that can be hard about negotiating, where it's like, listen, if you can't throw the number out there, that's the number, that doesn't mean you can't go a little bit lower. But if Your number is $10,000 and they say, oh, we were thinking more of like $300, oh, baby. We don't even have a conversation with the.
- [21:02]
Host (She's So Lucky)
I'm doing right there.
- [21:02]
Cameron Monet
It's great. Thank you so much. Yeah, have a blessed day. And there's been so many times where I walked away or had a client walk away from something and that brand circle the block. Because if they want to work with you because they see the value, they're going to figure it out. They're going to go back to somebody who they need to talk to, bring them back into the table and see what we can negotiate. So you do have to also have a little bit of confidence and be okay with walking away. But with all that being said, I have a rule of like three. So I'm going to go, I'm going to give you my rate. You're going to come back, I'm going to give you my response, you're going to come back, and I'm going to make a decision. Three times is usually more than enough. Unless it's just like a hard cutoff or it's super, super low. Then let's say, for example, they meet me, they're like, hey, they're kind of close. My number's 10,000. They're like eight. At that point, I'm gonna either agree or I'm gonna try to negotiate the deliverables. I think we get so caught up in the numbers. And of course, listen, I love a good bag. I love to make some money. Okay? But it's like, okay, if My rate was $10,000 for the list of deliverables, I also want you to respect that that's my rate. So let's negotiate the deliverables. So I feel confident in the work that I'm providing and the money that I'm receiving.
- [22:04]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And so that can look like things like maybe a smaller statement of work or a shorter term of exclusivity or something like that.
- [22:12]
Cameron Monet
It usually falls within, like the exclusivity usage rights, white listing, some of those kind of like, nuances. I call them like the a la carte version of the industry where it's not like your strict deliverables, where it's like an Instagram post TikTok.
- [22:23]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Like a side dish.
- [22:24]
Cameron Monet
Yes, Yes, a side dish.
- [22:25]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Come on.
- [22:26]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Hey, I'm hungry. I haven't had much yet.
- [22:28]
Cameron Monet
So it's like a little appetizer, right? Quick little bite.
- [22:32]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Last year, when I Was in between management. A brand had come to me and they. I think they had a budget that was, like, aligned with my rate, but they wanted, like, double the statement of work that I would give for that rate. So really it would have been, like, half off.
- [22:46]
Cameron Monet
Yeah.
- [22:46]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And I was actually able to talk them down and be able to get my rate for, like, the one set that it would have been working for.
- [22:53]
Cameron Monet
I love that.
- [22:54]
Host (She's So Lucky)
I was very proud.
- [22:55]
Cameron Monet
I love that. Because I feel like a lot of times people forget that, negotiate the deliverables, and a lot of times they're more than willing to do that over the price sometimes. Don't miss out on a bag now. Don't miss out every bag. Okay. But I think it's okay to walk away, too.
- [23:06]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah. And knowing that walking away can be so scary. But I think when you have the confidence to be able to do that, it's incredibly important.
- [23:16]
Cameron Monet
Yeah.
- [23:16]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Because you also don't want to be the person who just accepts everything.
- [23:19]
Cameron Monet
Because, let's be real, the industry talks.
- [23:20]
Host Intro
Yeah.
- [23:21]
Cameron Monet
Like, it's. It feels like a large industry because of, like, we say these large numbers with, like, how much it's worth. And like, you look on social media and there's millions of people and it's saturated. Right. But ultimately, a lot of these players in these roles, they go to different companies and they're constantly switching. So you want to make sure, hey, they're like, oh, yeah, camera charged this. Hello, who said that?
- [23:38]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Right.
- [23:39]
Cameron Monet
Because no, now the price is different.
- [23:40]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Everybody's price is not today's price.
- [23:41]
Cameron Monet
But that's also okay, too. It's also okay to say, hey, for that opportunity, that's what I charge. It's a different game, different day. Yeah.
- [23:48]
Host (She's So Lucky)
I've also made that mistake in corporate as well. One of my last corporate jobs that I had, I had a lot going on in my life, and I just accepted the offer right away. I just accepted. I didn't counter. It was a lot. I was going back, like 2018, 2019. She was going through a lot. And I accepted the offer right away, and I didn't push back on the salary at all. And I really wished that I would have because then that set the tone for every raise, promotion, everything after that. So we have a lot of corporate girls who listen who also aren't creators. And I just, like, also want to reiterate similar things apply. So if you just accept a job right away without trying to have some sort of, like, counteroffer, seeing what room they have to bump a salary up, that then could Impact then every year, what that looks like for you, especially
- [24:32]
Cameron Monet
in corporate, like a lot of your companies, you can usually ask. I'm like, you got to ask HR somebody, they have like a standard kind of like trajectory of how they give different bonuses and different opportunities. So where you start really can indicate where you're going to go.
- [24:46]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah.
- [24:46]
Cameron Monet
Because if you start too low, that's the base now. So at least try to get a little bit higher. Because if you know those percentages, like, especially in the legal field, it's like to get to a partner track, there are certain percentages, like a process. So you better get in there and try to get as much as you can at the beginning and then leverage it moving forward.
- [24:59]
Host Intro
Exactly.
- [25:00]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Even if it's like more stock options or if. If they can't move on the base and there's other things you can play with.
- [25:07]
Cameron Monet
Oh, now that you want to say more is TEA Equity stock. You better get this money for these companies if you can't get it up front. And I think upfront feels very flashy. Right. But it's like, now, don't sleep on the long game, because that's where the money resides.
- [25:20]
Host (She's So Lucky)
It is. Because that's what has potential to grow.
- [25:22]
Cameron Monet
Exactly. And quicker, to be honest.
- [25:25]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Do you.
- [25:25]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Have you had any good experiences with, like, equity and.
- [25:29]
Cameron Monet
Unfortunately not. But. But you know what I'm saying.
- [25:31]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Have you negotiated some for a client?
- [25:33]
Cameron Monet
More when it came to them signing an agreement with their manager and what we're starting to see, which I'm like, of course, I'm anticipating for the industry where a lot more management companies are starting to add equity as a part of their compensation with their creator clients. And I'm like, absolutely not.
- [25:48]
Host (She's So Lucky)
So, like, the managers get equity and what, in the creator's businesses? Oh, no, that.
- [25:53]
Cameron Monet
But also if the creator, let's say, for example, like, I know, we know Alex Earl, for example, invested in Poppy.
- [25:58]
Host Intro
Yeah.
- [25:59]
Cameron Monet
Her manager was saying she also gets a portion of the equity split. Absolutely not. I said, who signed these agreements? Jesus. What? Yeah, it's a mess. And it's. That's actually happened a few times recently where I'm like, why would y' all even put that in here? That should be a separate agreement. But. Yeah, so kind of. But not directly yet.
- [26:16]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [26:16]
Cameron Monet
But I feel like I will.
- [26:17]
Host (She's So Lucky)
But it can get muddy quick.
- [26:19]
Host Intro
Yeah.
- [26:19]
Cameron Monet
We're having more of these conversations in the creator economy, where creators are interested in, like, what does equity look like? Where can my money really play? How do I invest in startups so I can't tell if it's cause I'm in it or like, it's really happening. But I think it's because at some point the industry is starting to kind of get a little bit mature. I still wouldn't say it's like well known and people know everything about the industry, but okay, we're like, say 10 solid years in. Imagine if you're making hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, for the past 10 years, you're looking at your accounts with all this money and you're like, now what? Now what? Like, I maxed out everything that I can. What's the next level of risk that I'm willing to take? And it's usually some type of equity or investing in startups or angel investing.
- [26:55]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Let's get into your experiences now in tech, because we talked a little bit about how you started as a creator creating YouTube vlogs when you were in school. We talked a little bit about your corporate law experience and then more about how you help your clients. And you are also now a tech founder.
- [27:12]
Cameron Monet
Yes, a tech founder. It's still so surreal to me. I think about, like, that first, the first few YouTube videos a lot lately. I started because it's been over a decade at this point, and I'm constantly reflecting on, like, did I know where I was going with this? Did I know I was gonna get into the tech industry? Even in the past five years with my consulting firm, primarily helping creators with the contracts and negotiating and just getting the confidence, the courage and the autonomy to know how to negotiate. Well, transitioning into tech, I would have never guessed how that would correlate, but really it got to the point where it was like, I'm helping hundreds of creators. We're getting amazing results. I'm gonna have to hire another lawyer. I'm gonna have to hire another consultant. I'm gonna have to get some help on that part of the business, even though I have team for other things. And I'm like, okay, I can hire another lawyer, Great, but how fast can they help? And maybe like 10 months later, we'll be in the same situation, right? And then you hire another lawyer. It's like, all right, now we're kind of busy again. So I was kind of expressing that to my team and expressing it to a client who works in tech. And she was like, why don't you, like, create some type of app? And I was like, girl app? Who was app? How do you do that? I'm not an engineer. I literally felt completely out of my element. But Still a little intrigued. And that led me to Social Docket.
- [28:19]
Host (She's So Lucky)
So can you tell our audience a little bit more about Social Docket?
- [28:21]
Cameron Monet
Don't mind if I do. Yes, girl. Yes. It's like my little baby.
- [28:25]
Host Intro
Yes.
- [28:25]
Cameron Monet
Social Docket is an AI powered platform. We're providing the modern legal infrastructure for the creator economy. And think of it more of like a legal operating system and like the foundation of your business operations. A lot of times like we've been talking now where creators are starting to kind of get into business or no, I need to negotiate, but where do I start? Where I need to hire, where do I begin? Or I just need a structure for where to house my contracts and have those negotiation questions easily and accessibly answered. That's what we're building. We're trying to figure out how do we kind of be that foundation for creators to start to build and scale their companies to probably levels they never even would expect. So we're excited about that.
- [28:59]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [28:59]
Host (She's So Lucky)
So that they can really have like legal support in their pocket if they can't necessarily like afford to have you on retainer.
- [29:05]
Cameron Monet
Exactly. And of course we'll still offer like the human layer aspect because I understand, listen, one thing about AI, she do the best she can, what she got. But for us, like our thing was okay, people are using ChatGPT, Claude, etc. But one, they don't know how to prompt it, me included. It took me time to like learn, okay, what prompts kind of get the results that I'm looking for. But for me, I know what results I'm looking for. So so many creatives and entrepreneurs that are asking questions about business, law, taxes, they don't know the questions to ask. You don't know what you don't know. So our goal is to also try to mitigate some of that with like pre prompted questions within our chat feature. And ours is a vertical AI tool, so we're not searching the entire Internet. It's really just building off of the data that we're feeding it. So the hundreds of contracts that I've reviewed myself review for clients and training it to use the language that's going to actually make sense to the everyday person and then it learns from the users as well. So the users, every time you put a contract in and your behavior of the questions that you're asking, it's learning from your user profile. So for example, we have one of my clients is a nurse, so that would be something that she would include in her user profile. Our AI tool can like when it's reviewing the contract, say, hey, you're a nurse, like there's a conflict here. Or hey, maybe this is going to be the language that you need to try negotiating. Yeah, I'm really excited. I'm really excited. But we're starting with the basics.
- [30:15]
Host (She's So Lucky)
That's really cool though, especially for those people who may be in the earlier stages of like their creator business, who it's like they're probably negotiating kind of one off contracts. There may not be a ton of complexity there, but you also shouldn't still be signing things willy nilly. Then you have this tool that can help you make sure it's in your best interest.
- [30:31]
Cameron Monet
Exactly. And it's like, okay, you can hire a lawyer. A lot of the conversation I've been having with like my fellow creatives and potential users are, lawyers are so expensive. And I'm like, I get it. I don't think a lot of them should be as expensive. But then there's some that actually do. It's like, that makes sense. It's, it's a complex situation and there's this large group of people that are in the middle where it's like, you're not really new, so you don't, you have more contracts than like two, but you're in this like middle ground where either you don't want management, you haven't got the opportunity to get management, and you don't have the money for a lawyer, but you're getting these contracts. They tend to fall in like the nano micro creator industry as far as following. So you have like 10,000 followers to 100,000 followers. You're getting consistent deals, but you don't have time to wait 3, 4, 5, 7 days for a lawyer. They're expensive. So where do I go? I'm probably gonna read it myself. And unfortunately for a lot of creators, they don't know what they're reading, they don't know what they're looking for. And that tends to be where then they come to me. So because I'm seeing that, I'm like, okay, how can I make sure you don't even have to deal with that? How to like eliminate you bumping your head over time and time and time and then you come to me later. So our goal is to grab them right in the beginning, help you out the whole time.
- [31:34]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [31:34]
Cameron Monet
And then continue to elevate from there.
- [31:36]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [31:37]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Oh, it's so important. Speaking of contracts, I want to talk a little bit more about kind of the art of reading and understanding contracts a little bit more. Are there Any things in contracts that you most often see us get tripped up on or clauses that we really got to look out for.
- [31:52]
Cameron Monet
The number one thing is this word perpetuity, like, perpetual usage. And I think now I would hope that more people are understanding what it is, but I think even understanding the terms aren't enough. Because you can Google a term and like, okay, this is what it means. Perpetuity means forever. But if you don't know the outcome, that's usually why you pay a professional. So that's like within any industry. You can look it up, but it's like you don't know what happens after the fact. So, for example, if I sign a contract with brand A, they have my content in perpetuity, they're able to use that content over and over and over and over again without, what, paying me again. And that's a problem. And the example that I use for creators, even if there's a brand that says, no, we need it forever, and I just asked like, was last year's Christmas marketing gonna be this year's Christmas marketing? Probably not. Therefore, you don't need it forever. A lot of times either the person that's negotiate on behalf of the brand that, like, we don't even understand. We don't. We just. You have to agree to this. Or they don't have even brands, because we helping creators, though. But even brands, they don't even have, like, the workflows to help them with those type of negotiations too, because some creators don't know. Some creators do know. So it just really comes down to the industry being so new that there's just not enough resources to manage it. So then they just say everybody has signed perpetuity or one year or two years without giving any type of indication as to why. So I want creators to know why. Like, why am I agreeing to one year? Why am I comfortable with six months? Why am I comfortable with three months? Or why is it gonna be 30 days? And that's all you get, period.
- [33:18]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And even outside of the monetary aspect of something like perpetuity, it's like, I don't want to anybody to be able to use my likeness in perpetuity. You know what I mean?
- [33:26]
Cameron Monet
Why am I on this billboard? Yeah.
- [33:28]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Or what if, you know, a year down the road, the brand does something crazy, but they're still running ads with your face in it.
- [33:34]
Cameron Monet
And then it's like, now that we see.
- [33:36]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah, how do you get out of that is termination.
- [33:40]
Cameron Monet
That's why I like, the second thing, people never look up Is termination. Yeah, because I think, we think a lot of times it's always one sided in these agreements where the brand is going to send you the contract. Nine times out of 10, they're send the contract. Yeah, it's in their best interest. Which makes sense because if I'm sending a contract on behalf of a creator, it's in their best interest. You gotta negotiate. But termination, it's like, why would I as a creator want to terminate exhibit A? Because if this brand gets into a scandal or they're doing practices that are unethical or against my morals, I want a way out. I don't want to be the face of a brand simply because I didn't do my due diligence and I didn't negotiate it out. So you want a way out for any reason, Even if maybe you get sick or priorities change, who knows you want a way out. So termination is probably the second thing that I see people make an issue with.
- [34:23]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah. So those are the two things we need to look out for.
- [34:25]
Cameron Monet
The third thing would probably be exclusivity. And I think with exclusivity, people make an assumption of who they think the competitors are. An example I use all the time is years ago I worked with McDonald's and I was like, oh, y' all don't have to tell me who your competitors are. It's Burger King. And they was like, baby, we not checking for her.
- [34:40]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Oh.
- [34:40]
Cameron Monet
I said, oh, who were they checking for? Girl, I don't remember. But it wasn't Burger King. Okay. This was like 2017. I said, oh, this is cool. They were like, no, this is our competitor list. I said, now where's. We can't go to Bella Noche. Where can we go? Like, girl. I was like, what is this? But it just reminded me, like, always ask, make them list it out. And please do not agree to but not limited to, please.
- [35:02]
Host (She's So Lucky)
What does that mean?
- [35:03]
Cameron Monet
So essentially, if I say les, you can't work with brands A, B, C and D, but not limited to X, Y, Z. Well, now what if so who all is included?
- [35:13]
Host (She's So Lucky)
How do I know if I violated this?
- [35:14]
Cameron Monet
How do you determine what's but not limited to you?
- [35:16]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Yeah.
- [35:17]
Cameron Monet
So essentially what they're doing is trying to keep the door open for them to be able to say, oh, it's a new brand that comes up. They're also, you have to be exclusive for them. And it's like, mm, no, I need you to list the competitors, who they are right now under this agreement, if there's other competitors, you can Come back and we can talk about a separate agreement with additional pay period. So you wanna make sure that they list it out. And I also don't really like when they say just all beauty brands. It's like, are we talking skincare, are we talking makeup, are we talking nails? Like, what is the beauty? And if they are gonna do that, narrow it down and also make sure it makes sense to the campaign you're under. Cause brands are just gonna have a standard exclusively over everybody. This actually just happened today. I was helping a fellow creator with her contract. And in the agreement they put the brand Unilever, for people that aren't from Unilever, owns everything. Owns everything. But a lot of creators don't know, right? And because they weren't listed, they were like, oh, it's only like one brand. Or like maybe they knew two. And I said, I sent her the link to Unilever's website that had all the brands. I said, and they want 90 days. Let's run that back.
- [36:15]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [36:16]
Cameron Monet
So knowledge is power in the industry. Knowledge is power. Because, yes, the timeline was extensive, but also the competitors were extensive. I think that's why I'm so big on education when it comes to the creator economy. And that's like our first layer of what we want to focus on is educating. Yes. Contracts, negotiations, all that's so important. But when you're educated, you can make better decisions or at least you can hire better. And I think that's going to be beneficial to everybody.
- [36:40]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Okay, the girls have the toolkit for how to negotiate. I love the tip of three interactions. I feel like that's a good, that's like such a good benchmark if somebody doesn't know what they're doing. We talked about contracts and specifically the clauses people need to look out for if they have a contract. Now, now that's what I wanna talk about.
- [36:57]
Cameron Monet
Ooh, ciao.
- [36:58]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Don't do anything if there's not a contract.
- [37:01]
Cameron Monet
Nothing. Cause now I'll say this one. Get out them text messages and DMs, please, please, just at least get it in the email. And with that being said, if you do a call with a brand or a manager, follow up in writing. Follow up in writing. Because a lot of things, like the game of telephone, all of a sudden he say, she say, and things are going down the line and it's been misinterpreted. And it happens so often, especially when we're talking about money or termination or like decisions that, like high level decisions that are being made all of a Sudden people get amnesia. And then it's like a who said, who said what.
- [37:37]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And when you follow up in writing, what is it that you should be putting in writing?
- [37:40]
Cameron Monet
First things first is thank you so much for your time. All right. Okay. I love a sandwich method when it comes to something that when I'm being stern, start with something kind, hit em with what you're talking about and then end with something respectful. So it's like thank you so much for your time. I just wanted to follow up on our previous call. And then you listed out bullet point. We talked about terminating the agreement by the end of the month. We talked about payment would be X, Y, Z. We talked about I would have to submit an invoice. And upon invoices, that's when the 30 days will begin. Like be very 1, 2, 3. Let me know if there's anything I need to add. Looking forward to continue the conversation. Period. Best get in and out. Make them follow up with clarity. If there's something that's different or let's say they're lying about something. It's gonna be hard to lie if I just send it three minutes after the call versus you send it a few days later. So you wanna be like at least the first to send the follow up. If they don't do it before, you
- [38:23]
Host (She's So Lucky)
give them no time to forget.
- [38:25]
Cameron Monet
Mm, mm. Especially Mm mm. Cause they will, they will. Especially when there's a termination involved. Because managers are saying so protective of their clients, of their creators. They're like, I was there when she was getting it out the mud and now she's getting these deals and she want to go to another management agency. Well, that's yeah. How it works. And I do think, yes, there's a level of appreciation and managers do provide a lot of resources, experience. But at the end of the day, if the creator doesn't create, there wouldn't be any deals and opportunities, you wouldn't be making any money. If the creator doesn't sign the agreement, doesn't agree to that opportunity, you wouldn't make any money. So I think that's where it gets a little muddy. Probably more so even with brands. It's like the interpersonal relationships that comes with building your company as a creator, the people you hire, the people that represent you, those tend to be more of the issues. Even with contracts. I'm using the term agency and manager interchangeably. For the record, when the agency sends the contract, the creator's like, yes, they're looking out for me. They're so excited. I say oh, wait, slow down.
- [39:24]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Let's negotiate.
- [39:25]
Cameron Monet
And go back to those negotiation tips. Negotiate like how much is the commission? You don't have to start to 20% because they say that you can start lower. You don't have to agree to three years off the top. You can have a trial period. So really just going back to that knowledge and education so you can advocate for yourself in all situations.
- [39:42]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah. So if you have ever seen a cute outfit that I've posted on social media or you've been watching this podcast, you've been thinking less. I love what you're wearing.
- [39:56]
Host Intro
Where is it from?
- [39:57]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
9 times out of 10, if you're complimenting an item of clothing that I'm
- [40:00]
Cameron Monet
wearing or an outfit, it's probably something
- [40:03]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
that I've rented from Nuuly. So with nuuly, you pay $98 a
- [40:06]
Host (She's So Lucky)
month and you get to try six different items. And they have things from amazing brands
- [40:11]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
like Anthropologie, Free People, all of the cutest brands that you want to have in your closet, including this denim jumpsuit that I am wearing today. So what I love about Nuuly is it gives me permission to take a little bit of risk with what I'm wearing. Sometimes you want to try a statement piece or a new cut of denim or like a really cute funky coat or an event item that you want
- [40:35]
Host Intro
to try, but you don't necessarily want
- [40:37]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
to commit to buying. And that is why I love renting my clothes with Nuuly. Not only do they have so many amazing new styles every month, there's tons of inventory, it's size inclusive with amazing pieces to choose from. Nuuly also makes it so easy because they handle your dry cleaning, the laundry. So every month you get your six items, they've been professionally cleaned and you get to try all new styles.
- [41:02]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Now.
- [41:02]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
I have also been known to fall in love with some of the items that I rent from Nuuly. And I also have purchased quite a few pieces if I wanted them to be a part of my permanent wardrobe. And I love that you can often do that at a discount from the retail price of what buying the piece would be. Nuuly is such a great value at 98amonth for six different styles. Right now you can get $28 off your first month by using the code LUCKY.
- [41:27]
Host Intro
Just go to n u u l
- [41:30]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
y.com and enter the code LUCKY at checkout to get $28 off your first month. That's Nuuly with two U's. N u u l y.com code LUCKY to get $28 off your first Month. Change your clothes with Nuuly. Are you thinking of starting something of your own? There's always that voice in the back of your head that's asking what if it doesn't work? But what if it does work? When I started this podcast, I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew I had something to say. And if you're building something, whether it's a product, a brand or a business, Shopify is the tool that helps turn what if into let's go. Shopify is the commerce platform trusted by millions of businesses, handles 10% of all E commerce in the US and it's built to grow with you. From household brands to people just getting started. It gives you everything you need to show up like a pro. You can build a beautiful online store with their templates, write product descriptions with built in AI tools, and launch email or social media campaigns like you've got a whole marketing team behind you. Shopify makes it easy to run your business from one place. Inventory, payments, shipping, analytics. It's all right there. And when you see that purple shop pay button at checkout, that's the highest converting checkout on the Internet. So if you've been sitting on an idea or if you're ready to get serious about something you've already started, Shopify is the partner that makes it possible. Start your business with Shopify and start hearing that Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com balance black girl that's shopify.com balance black girl.
- [43:18]
Host Intro
You already know that this show is all about taking care of business. And even in today's episode we're talking about having your house in order. We're not just talking about the dream. Not just the esthetic, but the infrastructure, the systems, the part that actually allows you to grow. Support for today's episode comes from Square. Square brings everything together in one simple platform. So you can stay organized, sell anywhere and keep things moving. And I see it everywhere. My favorite local coffee shop uses Square and every time I tap to pay, it is seamless. There's no awkward waiting, no clunky system. The staff can actually focus on being present instead of wrestling with a register. That's what good tech should do. It should disappear into the experience. Square is also incredibly easy to use. The hardware looks clean and polished, the software is intuitive, and you don't need a tech degree to figure it out. You can sell in person, online, at a pop up, at a market, wherever your business takes you and if you're expanding, Square makes it simple to set up an online store in just a few clicks. And right now listeners can get up to 200 off Square hardware. When you sign up at 6square.com go/lucky. That's S Q-U-A-R-E.com go/lucky. Square keeps up so you don't have to slow down. Get everything you need to run and grow your business without any long term commitments. Again, you can get 200 off of Square Hardware at square.com go/lucky. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today.
- [44:56]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Can we also talk a little bit more about the importance of like having agreements in place? So we had the call, we recapped things in writing immediately. Gave them no time to forget.
- [45:06]
Cameron Monet
Yep.
- [45:07]
Host (She's So Lucky)
The importance of like making sure agreements are always in place.
- [45:11]
Cameron Monet
Yes. And something that I accidentally did back in the, back in the day. Okay, I don't do it now is. So we get off the call, I send the follow up, they confirm and they say, hey, we're gonna go ahead and mail out the products and you can like start to create and then we'll get the agreement to you. No, you can get that agreement to me today. Yes. Do not start any type of work until there is an agreement. Why? Because then we fall into that he say, she say category where you create the content. And they say, oh, can you do this reshoot? Can you do the revision? Can you do the reshoot? Maybe you had already just agreed that that was gonna be additional payment, but now there's nothing in writing. So then when you get the agreement, you're probably not gonna read it. Cause you're rushing. You sign it and then maybe they took it out, unfortunately. And it could even be like, just like a mistake. But once you sign something, it's gonna be harder to get out of it.
- [45:58]
Host Intro
Yeah.
- [45:58]
Cameron Monet
And you've already done the work. And then let's say you post the content and then you're waiting for payment. And there was never an agreement signed. He say, she say, is it net 30? Is it net 60? Is it net 90? Does that net 30 begin when you give the agreement? Did it start when you started working on the content? Did it start when you posted the content? We don't know.
- [46:15]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Is it?
- [46:15]
Cameron Monet
He say, she say, yeah. And you always want to be in a position where you can reference an agreement versus saying, well, Sarah said, Jacob was like, I thought, I thought y' all said y' all was gonna pay me. Ooh, sweetie, 90. Gotcha. Then you just want to say hey, page three, paragraph four.
- [46:30]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Right.
- [46:30]
Cameron Monet
It's also gonna remove some of the uncomfortable feeling of, like, correcting a brand or, like, making your purpose known when you have something to reference. It just makes it easier.
- [46:39]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Definitely. You also need good contracts in place with, like, management. People that you work with, people that you hire. Like, I don't think that there should be any work done with anybody, any which direction without some sort of agreement in place.
- [46:53]
Cameron Monet
Friends and family, too, especially. Honestly, I'm so sorry. I don't know why people. That's just my friend. Okay. That's my mom. Her too. My mom know. Hey, right here. Dotted line, love. If you have questions, please ask. Yeah. Because you just never know. And I'd even say. I'd say, yes. Friends and family, even more so. Because emotions get involved and things get messy, and you just want to provide clarity at all costs. And I always think of, like, a contract. It's like insurance. You just have it just in case. It's like a nice little reference. I don't get in the car and be like, well, girl, I got this issue I was about to pull off. No, it's just nice to have. It's like a comfort zone.
- [47:27]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Have you ever seen anything crazy happen from, like, either not having a contract in place or all the time?
- [47:34]
Cameron Monet
Actually, recently. So what happened was. So this creator client met her friend at this agency, and at the agency, she said, hey, I'll be your manager. And she's like, great. So that was her manager. She was in a trial period with that agency. The manager that was representing her got fired. Right. So then the creator said, we're gonna call her Sarah. So then Sarah says, you know what? I wanna stick with you. I still want you to be my manager. And the manager said, great. Yay.
- [48:00]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Wait, why'd the manager get fired? Sarah, why are you working with somebody who got fired?
- [48:04]
Cameron Monet
Now, see, I had asked and I never got an answer. Now, what did we learn from last time? Ask the questions. Cause maybe she was trifling, but it could have been like. It could have been like an agency that couldn't pay. Could have been like some other situation.
- [48:17]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [48:17]
Cameron Monet
I don't know. But for me, that would have been a red flag. I'd be like, you know what? I have questions. But at the very least, you wanna know what I would have done is had an agreement.
- [48:25]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yes.
- [48:26]
Cameron Monet
So the manager and Sarah never had an agreement. They never created another agreement. So then they just kept working together over the course of six months. There were no brand deals signed.
- [48:37]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Now, so were they Working. Well, the creators worked.
- [48:40]
Host Intro
Sarah's working.
- [48:40]
Cameron Monet
Sarah was working. Sarah was growing a platform to the point where Sarah applied for Sephora Squad and got on it. Ms. Manager, where are you at doing nothing? But Sarah's so kind. You wouldn't know why Sarah, mind you, that's not her name. Okay, mind you, Sarah's so kind. Sarah said, hey, manager, I got this. You want to help me? Of course. The manager said, yes, I'm about to negotiate this for you. There are some abilities to negotiate, but it's not like it's a ton. You're not starting from like a long winded back and forth. It's not a lot. So she helps her with this deal, they sign it. Sarah wants to go with another agency. Of course she's a free agent.
- [49:16]
Host (She's So Lucky)
She's not signed to anybody.
- [49:17]
Cameron Monet
And technically y' all ain't been working, so. Yeah, so really, girl. Then here comes the manager. She said, oh no, you can't leave me now. Ooh, that made me flashback to an ex. Girl, I'm out of here. You're under an agreement. And she said, where's the agreement? Right? And then all of a sudden the manager's a ghost. And she said, well, either way, I get 20% for the entire year for the S4 squad. Now, people that don't know what sports squad is, that is a year long opportunity with multiple brand deals over the course of 12 months, right? I don't want you to represent me anymore. That means I would have to deal with you on top of this new management. Now it gets confusing because Now I'm paying 20% to one manager, 20% to another manager, and then like we mentioned earlier, exclusivity. Now we have to play the game of making sure that there's no exclusivity over here. Over here. Nobody has time for that. She offered this manager because it was her friend, genuinely friendship. Which I was like, baby, stop using that word. Stop using that word. That's not your friend. She offered her X amount of money, flat fee, which was 11% of the amount of money that she made in total of the previous year. 11%. One thing about me, I love a number. So when I jumped in, she came to me with all this information and I jumped in and I was like, hey, I'm Sarah's legal consultant. I'm gonna help with the negotiation of the contract. We're looking forward to transitioning out. I didn't even say termination. There's nothing to terminate. There's no agreement. So I was like, let's Talk about this transition the manager. I can understand where it feels personal. You feel like you've watched this creator grow up and you've shared this experience along the way. But the facts are the facts. You did not help her get any opportunities. But from her point of view, she spent her time and her effort to. Of pitching. We don't know because also we don't have. She never had any visibility to any of that. Her argument is still about the support squad. And ultimately it was just a lesson in the importance of having an agreement. Because with this, it's so messy. Because it is a he say, she say. Right? It still is Sarah against the manager. So all I can do is look at like, what's the standard? And then unfortunately, this is an industry where standard just isn't really standard yet. Like, there are some standards, there are some, but like, it's kind of just like, okay, well, I've looked at hundreds of contracts, hundreds, maybe thousands at this point, where I can kind of anticipate what this could look like. I've dealt with situations where there were agreements and they did agree to a flat fee. Because at the end of the day, I don't know about you, but if somebody don't wanna work with me, I don't want you to work here either way. So if it's a creator that's saying I don't want you to be my manager, the best interest of everyone would be to come up with some type of agreement to move forward.
- [51:37]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Right.
- [51:37]
Cameron Monet
But she's just insisting that we find another way. But unluckily for her is I do this, so we gonna get to this flappy one way or another. Yep, that is messy. If it was an agreement, I would have sent one email, page two, paragraph three. Right, that's it, then.
- [51:55]
Host (She's So Lucky)
It would have been done.
- [51:55]
Cameron Monet
Wishes. But yeah, it's messy.
- [51:58]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And for an example like that, with there being no agreement in place, like, would any of that hold up in court? How ugly could that potentially get?
- [52:08]
Cameron Monet
So it's a 50. Everything's a 50. 50. I was about to hit you with the lawyer thing. It depends.
- [52:14]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Okay.
- [52:14]
Cameron Monet
It really does depend. It depends because arguably there's no agreement. So there was no representation. But it's almost like she triggered a type of agreement when she sent her the Sephora deal contract and she helped her.
- [52:30]
Host (She's So Lucky)
That's where it gets complicated.
- [52:30]
Cameron Monet
That's where it gets messy. The thing about contracts is, yes, you want everything in writing, but verbal agreements are still contractually binding. So her sending the agreement and the manager letting her Know that it's, you know, 20% commission. They already had the discussion. We're not really negating that. That indicated there is some type of contractual obligation here. The only thing with that is there's no termination clause, there's no payment clause, there's no all these things because it's just 20% of commissions of the deals that you sign. And she signed this four squad, so technically, sure, she could have a right to a percentage, but still the percentage is alleged because it's so four deals, you don't sign all of them at once.
- [53:05]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Right.
- [53:05]
Cameron Monet
So we're having to make an assumption of, okay, over the course of 12 months, how much will she make?
- [53:09]
Host (She's So Lucky)
How's the value of that going to be?
- [53:10]
Bretman Rock
We don't know.
- [53:11]
Cameron Monet
And my argument is, well, let's look at the last year. Let's look at 20, 25. How much did she make? Okay, she made XYZ. This wasn't including May to December, but I was like, okay, we'll give you the courtesy of, okay, you were there during the course of her doing this trial period and she made X amount. We're gonna give you 11%, which I think is more than reasonable for one month into the year.
- [53:27]
Host (She's So Lucky)
I mean, that's about a half a
- [53:28]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
year of since that was how much money she made.
- [53:31]
Cameron Monet
You made no money. You gave her no deals.
- [53:34]
Host (She's So Lucky)
So it's interesting story is to have an agreement.
- [53:37]
Cameron Monet
Have an agreement. Because I think it eliminates the emotions out of a lot of these business decisions. Because I'm a creator. I get it. A lot of it feels personal, like Erygo Badu. I'm an artist. I'm sister about my. You know, but like, at the end of the day, go to the contract. That's all that matters. All this other stuff doesn't even matter. She helped her. She thrived with her. She helped her come up with creative ideas. Ah, la la la la la la. I don't care. You didn't make her no money. Yeah, you get 20% of zero. You don't have to be a mathematician. Zero dollars is zero. Zero, girl. It's a mess. But yeah, contracts are so much more important than I think we even think about until there's a problem. And I think something that we're trying to do with education is understanding how important it is before there's a problem. Don't just lean on it when it's a problem. You can use it for benefits too. Of course. Like, there's so many terms within the agreement where it's like, oh, I can leverage this to make more money. Because when there's additional obligations that probably aren't discussed in like the email thread there, the contract, you're like, wait a minute, that 10k is now 15k. Thank you so much. Yeah, so I think trying to like remove this scary and like blur around the contract and make it a little bit more like accessible.
- [54:42]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [54:42]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And make it almost like a guide to help you actually be able to do the work.
- [54:46]
Cameron Monet
Oh, I like that.
- [54:47]
Host (She's So Lucky)
It's really helpful. I refer back to my contracts a lot when I'm actually completing the content or when I'm submitting things or because there's a lot of information in there with like instructions of what needs to be included and what all should be there. It's a really helpful guide.
- [55:00]
Cameron Monet
I actually love that you said that because a new thing that we have been trying to implement in Social docket and will be in like the future is the fact that contracts don't end when you sign it. Just like you said, you reference them after the fact. So you have to go back to the contract though. It's like, oh, I got to go back to the brand brief and I got to scroll down and I got to find it. What if there was a way to be able to see that more easily, to track it more easily, to track the usage rights that are three months to see where the overlaps are. So that's a little sneak peek into
- [55:27]
Host (She's So Lucky)
some of the list of competitors because I sure will scroll to page 4, paragraph 8.
- [55:32]
Cameron Monet
Imagine if you had a dashboard where you could see all those things where contracts are now, this living thing versus just you sign the contract and it's over. But it's like, that's not how this industry works. So many other industries are like that, but in the creator economy, if you aren't in the industry, then you don't know the nuances. So I'm excited to start to think of some of those nuance and unique ways to leverage what we're building with social docket for sure.
- [55:53]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And it's a tool that'll help us do it.
- [55:55]
Cameron Monet
Exactly.
- [55:55]
Host (She's So Lucky)
If the girls are interested in Social Docket, what does that look like? When will they be able to use it?
- [56:02]
Cameron Monet
So right now our main focus is getting our first group of paid users. We've had a launch party where people got to test out the product, which was amazing. And the next level is to onboard our first group of paid users so they can go through the entire, we call it the happy path of the user where you log in, you do Your profile and you start to test the product and we kind of get behaviors. The next level to that is gonna be our wait list. So the best way to join and get like early access is to join the wait list because that's where we'll start to open it up and you get first access.
- [56:29]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Perfect.
- [56:30]
Host (She's So Lucky)
So we'll make sure that we put a link to the waitlist in the description so that the people can sign it up.
- [56:34]
Cameron Monet
Please do.
- [56:35]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Can I also just say I love that you are creating a tech product and I think that there need to be more women tech founders and more black women tech founders because we're very entrepreneurial.
- [56:49]
Cameron Monet
Yep.
- [56:49]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And I love it. And I do think we tend to over index in a few certain industries, mainly beauty.
- [56:57]
Cameron Monet
Beauty. I'd be like, and that's not to
- [56:59]
Host (She's So Lucky)
say that like we can't have beauty brands. We don't create amazing beauty brands because we do. And we can create other amazing things. And I think I'm excited to see more of us creating other things. And I love that you are doing such a thing.
- [57:12]
Cameron Monet
I think the tech industry among many is so male dominated, like I'd say more than any other industry. Even coming from law, where 5% of lawyers are black, which is crazy. 5%, 2% are black women licensed. And then tech, less than 2% of women get funding. It's just like the numbers are insane when you see the results where women are dominating. We're making money, we're actually having revenue in our companies. The intimidation factor of those numbers make us go into industries that feel a little bit more softer. And that's not a negative thing. And I'm like, are they soft?
- [57:55]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Like we're seeing these things happening with these beauty brands and the inventory. Like, it ain't soft.
- [58:00]
Cameron Monet
It's hard.
- [58:01]
Host (She's So Lucky)
It's why they keep closing down.
- [58:02]
Cameron Monet
I think they're like, oh, well, I'm a woman, I wear makeup, I can promote it. And it's like, it's not that simple. It's same thing with the creator economy. I'm a person, I like to create content. I'm a post content online. Do you know there's a whole engine running behind so many of these companies? But it's like we can see these headlines and for some reason people still don't get it. They still don't see it. They still don't. They're not prepared. And I don't know if it's like an education gap or like a knowledge gap or an experience gap or whatever it is, but people just don't see the. To me, I think it's like, huge red flags across the board where it's like, okay, you want to start a beauty product, you need to sit and think, why? What. What is it? Are you a founder market fit? Is it a product market fit? All these other tech terms, like, what is. What is the reason behind it? Like, you just. Like, a lip gloss isn't enough. I'm so sorry. Like, there's so many glosses. Like, it needs to be more purposeful and an actual gap in the market. Like, I feel like I got so annoyed with hearing all these abbreviations and these terms, but, like, it makes sense. A gap in the market. It needs to be there. Because if there's no gap, you're just another product in Sephora.
- [59:02]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [59:02]
Cameron Monet
And we see that's not enough.
- [59:03]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Mm.
- [59:03]
Host Intro
Mm.
- [59:04]
Cameron Monet
Yeah. And then also think. And I did a TikTok on this. I'm so glad people didn't eat me up. So y' all better not where. I think it's important to have mentors that don't look like you expand your network. I don't care that you're like, I don't know how to speak to X, Y, Z. I don't care. Go over there and say, hello. You need people in the rooms that we aren't in to advocate for you. Sorry. I love a good all black experience, too. Cause, listen, I'mma be blackity black, blackity black, black, black all day, But I'm gonna need Sarah and Samantha sometimes. Okay. I'm gonna need Jake. Jake. I'm gonna need them to.
- [59:37]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Jake has the money. I need Jake to write the check, and I need Jake to convince the
- [59:40]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
other Jakes to write the check.
- [59:42]
Host (She's So Lucky)
And the rest of them are gonna listen to him. Maybe more so than me, even.
- [59:47]
Cameron Monet
If you could be the perfect founder for the opportunity, it could be an amazing product. It could be great time in the market. But if you don't have someone that looks like the investors advocating for you, they're gonna overlook you. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing it. I see it where it's like, you literally just need somebody in that room that's like, oh, no, no, no. Like, she's my mentee. Or, oh, no, I love her. She's great. Or she has such a great work ethic, or I saw her dominate. In xyz, you have to have somebody in that room, and a lot of times we're not in it. So then what are you gonna do? Build another lip gloss? Like, you need multicultural experiences around You. You need to expose yourself with that. You need to travel, do something. Because you need these experiences to navigate any industry. Especially want to dominate now. Okay. Some people want to just have a cute, little, small appetizer. That's cute, baby. I want the full course. You know what I'm saying? And I think that's okay. Like, I'm not just building a cute, little, small, little thing. Oh, no, no, no. Multi million. Yeah. What? I'm dominating a $250 billion industry. You think I'm playing small?
- [60:48]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Hello.
- [60:48]
Cameron Monet
Pick another one. Hello. If that means I gotta shake some hands and hold some babies. Well, well, a goo goo. Go, go. Call me TT Cam. Okay. You gotta do what you gotta do. You can't be afraid to do it. Like, and that's not to say that I. I have an amazing black woman, black man community around me. Family, friends, colleagues, mentors, mentees, et cetera. That's not to negate that, but it's a fact. The numbers say there's gonna be more of XYZ in the rooms. You better go handshake some of them, period.
- [61:20]
Host (She's So Lucky)
I think it's a good example of operating in the world as it is, not as we think it should be. Because those are two different things. I've been talking about it on the podcast this year.
- [61:28]
Host Intro
Those are two different things.
- [61:29]
Cameron Monet
Yeah. And being comfortable, being uncomfortable. Yeah. And I think that is the difference between people that make it and that don't. That they're just comfortable being uncomfortable. They're willing to go the distance. They're willing to lean into the discipline and ignore when the motivation ain't there. Don't really care about that. I'm so sorry. I'm real. I run a strict program. Negotiating is like a form of self love. So is discipline. It is. If you want something, go after it. No one's gonna give it to you. I'm so sorry. I think we're so used to being coddled, and it's like, please, just go do it. You don't want it bad enough. That's my argument, though. Ooh, ooh, they about to eat me up. No, but you don't. But seriously, you don't want it bad enough. I'm so sorry. Cause there's moments when I can tell. It's like, oh, you don't want it.
- [62:09]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
I don't disagree.
- [62:10]
Cameron Monet
You know what I'm saying? I don't disagree. And there's. And it ebbs and flows. I don't think you're always gonna be 100 at everything. That's unrealistic. We're human. You're gonna have moments where it's like, I just. I got 70%. Give that 70%. I got 10%. Give that 10% and give it to
- [62:22]
Host (She's So Lucky)
what you're saying you want.
- [62:24]
Cameron Monet
You want. It ain't gotta look like nobody else. I'm excited to see more women in a variety of different industries, especially the tech. The more I got into it, the more I realized, like, it's really not many. Like, I went to an event a couple of days ago. It was like, three black people. Three, like, 50 plus people in the room. Three. There's a lot more women, which was nice. I was like, ooh, okay, finally. But like, three. Yeah, that's it.
- [62:47]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [62:49]
Cameron Monet
Yeah. I hate to see it. Cause it's like, dang. Well, if I gotta help represent, I'm gonna do what I can. I feel very honored and privileged to be in the position I am, to be someone that has been in the creator economy for so long, but also been a licensed attorney for six years and be able to be in that middle. I genuinely am passionate about it. Like, I love it, but it's a
- [63:09]
Host (She's So Lucky)
good example of, like, getting in the room, doing the work that's been put on your heart to do. But you're also helping other people get into the room. You're creating things to help these creators, most of whom are women. A lot of who are women who look like us have their affairs in order so that they can build the businesses they need to also get into the room.
- [63:27]
Cameron Monet
Exactly. And it's so important because, again, education. Yep. Education. Knowledge. People, period. Gotta be in the room.
- [63:35]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [63:36]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Cam, this was so good and so helpful. I feel like you gave us so many good takeaways to actually have our shit together when we are asking for what we want and how to actually
- [63:46]
Cameron Monet
get it and keep it.
- [63:48]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yes.
- [63:48]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Please let the girls know where they can find you and how they can
- [63:50]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
keep in touch with you.
- [63:51]
Cameron Monet
Thank you so much for having me. You can follow me on all the Internet streets. Amranmone, it's Cameron with a K and socialdocket. We would love to have you in our community. We would love to support you and see you scale your companies bigger and better. Okay, that part.
- [64:05]
Host (She's So Lucky)
We're gonna put all of that in the description so that everybody can follow along.
- [64:09]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Thank you.
- [64:10]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Thank you all for tuning into this week's episode. And thank you for following along for the how to get what you want series that we've had on she's so lucky all month long. Now, next month. We're diving all the way into business. We own businesses. The business of you. Whether you are starting a business, running a business, treating your life the business of you. How to be the CEO of your life. That is what we're covering all month long in the month of March, so make sure you're subscribed to she's so Lucky on Spotify, on YouTube wherever you get your podcast so that you don't miss an episode. Now, because this is the last episode of our how to get what you want series, I want to hear in the comments either comment on Spotify or comment on YouTube. Maybe one way that you're either getting what you want as we go into March or one way that this series
- [64:55]
Host Intro
helped you get what you want.
- [64:58]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week.
- [65:07]
Host Intro
Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of she's so Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show. Notes for resources, links and discount codes. And if you are really feeling lucky, we would appreciate appreciate your rating and your review.
- [65:26]
Host (She's So Lucky)
It really helps us be able to
- [65:27]
Host Intro
improve the show to get great guests and to understand what you want to hear more of. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week.
- [65:41]
Bretman Rock
Ratman to Earth. Earth to Bratman Girl, you already know who it is. It is I singer, songwriter, actor, actress, actress, athlete, activist and your newest favorite podcast host. I welcome you to the baddest radio hosted by yours truly, me, Bretman Rock.
- [65:59]
Cameron Monet
Duh.
- [66:00]
Bretman Rock
Here I'll be talking about everything from funny personal stories to raw and unfiltered conversations. I'll be showing you how to live your best life unapologetically. Catch me on here every fourth day of the week, which are Thursdays. If you didn't know, you already know where to find a bad baby. Don't forget to follow rate and like. You can follow me bretmanrock on everything and follow the podcast at the baddest radio on all social media except for X. Cause who the hell uses X like
- [66:31]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.
- [66:37]
Host (She's So Lucky)
Individuals on the show may have a
- [66:38]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.