Recho Omondi on Building The Cutting Room Floor, Outsmarting the Algorithm & Not Shortchanging Yourself

Summary

Podcast Summary: She’s So Lucky

Episode Title:
Recho Omondi on Building The Cutting Room Floor, Outsmarting the Algorithm & Not Shortchanging Yourself

Release Date:
July 28, 2026

Host:
Les Alfred

Guest:
Recho Omondi, fashion designer, podcaster, and founder of The Cutting Room Floor

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, inspiring conversation between host Les Alfred and Recho Omondi, who shares her journey from competitive dancer with a creative spirit to building an acclaimed fashion podcast—The Cutting Room Floor. Recho dives into creativity, entrepreneurial lessons, the evolving world of digital content, the challenges and rewards of moving her show to Patreon, and navigating success amidst envy and competition. The episode is rich with personal anecdotes, hard-won insights, and practical advice for women forging their own paths.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins of Creativity and Curiosity

• Early Influences: Recho attributes her creativity and curiosity to her upbringing, describing them as qualities she was "born with" but also "cultivated" over time.

  “I always saw creativity as an elective choice. I never saw it as a career choice. … That part, I think, took a little bit to harness.”
  — Recho, [01:51]

• Cultural & Artistic Exposure: Raised by a single father who prioritized culture and learning, Recho engaged with books, music, travel, and dance, which later integrated into her creative worldview.

  “We read a lot of books… Played just a lot of music in general, museums and learning also as a hobby.”
  — Recho, [03:04]

• Transition from Pre-Med to Arts: Initially pursuing pre-med to follow in her father’s footsteps, she realized around age 19 that her drive was best served in creative fields, transferring to art school and finding her people:

  “I was kind of like a big fish in a small pond before. … Everyone was a creative kid in their town.”
  — Recho, [06:22]

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Discovering and Defining Taste

• Nature vs. Nurture: Recho believes taste is both inherent and learned. Art school sharpened her tastes and broadened her perspectives:

  “There is actually, like, a logic to it. And I think if you spend the time studying it, you'll start to have that eye for it.”
  — Recho, [09:14]

• The Work of Finding Your Voice: She emphasizes the demanding process of moving from imitation to originality and deeper personal excavation:

  “How do you find something that's yours? I think that's the work. And it is actually work. It's not something I think just comes to you in a dream… It’s required actually doing that like excavating.”
  — Recho, [11:13]

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Lessons from Entrepreneurship

• Fashion Label Days: Launching her label fresh from school, Recho candidly acknowledges her naiveté and the hard realities of capital-heavy fashion businesses:

  “I definitely made a lot of mistakes. … I wasted a lot of money. … I did establish kind of a sensibility and a visual taste level within … the New York City design community.”
  — Recho, [15:45]

• Unsexy Revenue Streams: The most lucrative parts of her early businesses (a B2B embroidery venture) were often the least glamorous:

  “The things that do keep the lights on or that might be more lucrative are often the kind of unsexy things.”
  — Les, [20:18]
  “We had this, like, accidental embroidery business … that was generating the most revenue.”
  — Recho, [18:57]

• The Word “Entrepreneur”: Recho is wary of the way entrepreneurship is romanticized. She values grit and self-employment but pushes back on hollow titles:

  “How many people do we know that's like the CEO and founder of nothing? … It just kind of feels like a self-important title in a way.”
  — Recho, [17:18]

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Building “The Cutting Room Floor” Podcast

• Early Podcasting: Launching in 2018, Recho was ahead of the curve, bridging fashion and media when neither side “got” podcasting’s promise:

  “There were no other fashion podcasts at the time. … While podcasting people … didn’t understand fashion. The fashion people understood fashion, but they didn’t understand podcasting.”
  — Recho, [22:35–24:00]

• Monetization and Patreon Innovation: Foreseeing the need for exclusivity and a value proposition for listeners, Recho moved her show fully behind a Patreon paywall—an unusually bold step at the time:

  “I was also early to like multimedia in that way. … I’m native to the platform, essentially. I had no audience anywhere else that was bigger that I brought into Patreon.”
  — Recho, [27:16–29:54]

• Product-Market Fit: She stresses that people do pay for quality content, but only if utility and value are clear:

  “I always felt that there had to be something … the audience could glean from what I was saying, so there had to be some form of utility in the show.”
  — Recho, [30:11]

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Outsmarting Algorithms and Community Building

• Algorithm Fatigue & Gated Communities: Recho underscores the increasing importance of content behind paywalls and direct-to-consumer relationships as algorithms disrupt traditional follower-based metrics:

  “The subscription, the follow, all those things were like critical metrics for the relationship between … creator and … consumer. And now that the algorithm has kind of intercepted … we’re getting told what we want to see.”
  — Recho, [42:29–44:17]

• Attention as Currency: She offers practical and spiritual advice on mindful media consumption:

  “You have to be so mindful of where your attention is going because it is so powerful. … Rage bait, don’t fall for it. … Swipe up the minute you see it. Like, don’t give it any life.”
  — Recho, [45:25–46:34]

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Navigating Success, Jealousy & Self-Belief

• On Receiving Envy: Recho reflects on how achieving her deal with Patreon brought out mixed reactions within her network—support along with surprising indifference or envy:

  “We all know that feeling of having great news and somebody, you know, not really paying it any mind or not really giving you the kind of energy that you would have thought.”
  — Recho, [47:16]

• Learning from Envy: She’s learned to acknowledge jealousy without letting it drain her energy—and to recognize that people may see more in her than she sees in herself:

  “What I’ve learned … is to not shortchange myself, because there are people who are jealous of me at 5, not even at 10. Imagine if I was at 10.”
  — Recho, [52:17]

• Alchemizing Jealousy: Her actionable advice: send abundance to those you envy; abundance-energy is a generative discipline:

  “If you are jealous of somebody … that means it’s on the way to me if that person. You know, you have to. Because I started doing that … and I really think it helped.”
  — Recho, [56:31]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Innovating Outside the Herd

  “Fashion is a very conservative business, by the way. … I kind of always go left if people are going right. Cause there’s something to the left if everyone’s going right.”
  — Recho, [61:37]

• On Luck and Living in New York

  “I genuinely still wake up … when I’m walking through, I mean, it still feels like a movie to me. I’m not tired of it. I feel so lucky to be here. … My dreams have come true. … The city has given me so much.”
  — Recho, [65:13]

• On Self-Awareness and Misconceptions

  “The feedback that I get a lot is like, ‘Oh, you’re so much warmer than I thought you would be.’ So maybe people think I’m colder than I am.”
  — Recho, [63:01]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Recho’s Early Life & Creativity Origins: [01:51–07:41]
• Developing Taste and Creative Identity: [09:10–12:15]
• Lessons from Early Fashion Entrepreneurship: [15:45–20:18]
• Launching The Cutting Room Floor & Podcasting Insights: [22:18–27:16]
• Patreon Exclusivity & Content Monetization: [27:16–31:58]
• Outsmarting Algorithms & Direct Community Building: [41:33–46:34]
• On Success, Jealousy, and Self-Belief: [46:58–56:55]
• Rapid Fire (Unpopular Opinions, Bold Decisions, Signals): [57:06–64:40]
• Luck, Living in NY, and Closing Reflections: [64:46–66:48]

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Tone & Style

The conversation is conversational, frank, and peppered with wisdom, personal anecdotes, and empowering frameworks. Both Les and Recho keep the mood authentic and welcoming, while confronting genuine challenges of creativity, competition, and entrepreneurship.

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Final Takeaways

• Creativity and self-belief require conscious cultivation and lived experience.
• Originality is earned by going deeper than imitation and mining your unique story.
• Entrepreneurial success is often built on behind-the-scenes hustle—rarely “luck.”
• Community and value-driven content can thrive beyond traditional, algorithm-choked platforms.
• Navigating envy and external validation is ongoing work for any creative woman winning on her terms.

Not to be missed for anyone craving inspiration, real talk on career pivots, and the power of building your own lane in a noisy, competitive world.

Transcript

[Rachel]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Welcome back to she's so Lucky. So, in today's episode, we're going to talk a little bit more about fashion than I usually do, which, honestly, I feel like I don't really talk about fashion at all. So I'm excited to get into a little bit more. But before we get into that, it felt like a perfect time to shout out today's sponsor, Nuuly, because if I'm wearing anything cute, you can bet it's probably rented from Nuuly, including my dress today and including everything that I'm going to wear all summer long. So make sure you check out the description, use my code for Nuuly, and get some cute clothes to rent all summer.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Rachel, welcome to the show.

[Rachel]

Thank you for having me. It's so fun.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

I am so excited to have you because I've actually wanted to have you on the show for a while, and I feel like the timing of this is all working out really beautifully. So I'm excited to have you here.

[Rachel]

Me too. This is fab. I love this setup. This is so gorgeous.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

I know this is like our newer studio, which we're pretty new to being in this space, but it's feeling like a really cute little home for us here. So at she's so Lucky, we obviously talk about creating our own luck. And when I think about somebody who has created their own luck, you are absolutely someone who comes to mind because I feel like you have created this really beautiful space for yourself at the intersection of fashion and media. And I want to, being the nosy person that I am, really dig into that.

[Rachel]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

And understand more about. About you creating your own luck. And as someone who consumes your work, the top two qualities that come to mind for me as I think about your creativity and I think about your curiosity, and I would love to start with figuring out where those qualities came from.

[Rachel]

Creativity and curiosity, I feel like you're born with both of them, I think. Right. Like creativity. I think I always had that in me. It took me probably a little while to cultivate it, though, or to even recognize that that was a thing. You know, I had always seen creativity as an elective choice. I never saw it as a career choice. And that is not, you know, dissimilar from a lot of other immigrant children. So that part, I think, took a little bit, a little bit to harness. But the curiosity part, I think I was always curious. I was just nosy. And, like, I was also the youngest, and so I Feel like part of that came from wanting to be taken seriously or wanting to be have something explained to me in more color. So I was always just like, well, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Where are we going? How does that work? How does that happen? So I don't know. But I've always been really fascinated by understanding, like how the sausage gets made and how things work and always asking for more clarity than probably some people are patient enough to give me.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Back to the creativity piece, you said that you tapped into that a little bit later. Was there a specific event that helped you tap into that, or what was the moment where you started leaning into creativity?

[Rachel]

Well, I mean, I think I grew up really encouraged by the arts. So like, you know, I was raised by single father. He always wanted us to be, you know, cultured, well read, well educated. So, like, growing up in my household, we read a lot of books. I think any kid of the 90s, like, reading was such a part of the culture. Read a lot of books. We weren't allowed to watch TV really, except for, like on the weekends or, you know, holidays maybe listened to a lot of musicals, traveled quite a bit, played instruments, played just a lot of music in general museums and learning also as a hobby. Again, I think that's very like 90s kid culture, but in general, like, for sure in our household. So I don't know, I feel like all of those things pointed to, if not creative, yet a cultured background. I grew up dancing, and so that was a big part of my life, being like, on stage and I did competitive dance and also just like ballet and tap and jazz and all the things. And so that costuming was a big part of that life. And doing fittings and makeup and hair and glam and da da da. I had a big imagination. I read a lot more fiction than I do now. When I was younger, obviously I was very into like, imaginative storytelling. So all of that stuff was like, obviously very left a very big impression on me, but it always felt like an elective. It always felt like something that you get to do after your homework or after dinner or after the more important things. So I went to school for pre med and my dad was a doctor. I was kind of following in his footsteps and not because he was pressuring me, just because you kind of tend to do what you know. I spent a lot of time like in and around hospitals growing up, because again, my dad was a single father. But I don't think I thought too much about it. And I was a good student. Like, growing up, I was pretty good. So I probably could have done it if I had applied myself and really focused on it. But I knew quite early on that it wasn't where.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Then.

[Rachel]

This sounds so cliche, but it wasn't where my passion lied. And I knew at that point, which would be around 17, 18, that I was very, like, passion driven, I think. So by the time I ended up going to art school, because I transferred to art school around maybe. I think I did two years of school. So I would have been probably 19 or maybe turning 20 at the point that I was like, if I took the amount of rigor and application that I applied towards what I'm doing now, what would that look like? If I applied that towards a creative field? So I didn't really know what the end result was going to be. But I did know that I had drive and a work ethic.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. But that you're somebody who. It's best applied when you really care about what you're doing.

[Rachel]

I think so. Yeah. And also just like, I felt like I was good at it. I think there's a general, you know, I didn't have a lot of language for this stuff that I learned later. But whether it was like, you know, taste or composition or color theory, this wasn't a part of my lexicon at the time. Like, I didn't know that you could be good or bad at those things particularly. But I started to realize, like, I have a perspective on things that in my small town, no one had a perspective on. So I. I felt creative or curious, which I think they are linked at that time. But then once I went to art school, meeting so many other people who were like, me really broadened, like, my eyes and my point of view and sharpened it really. At the end of the day, that's

[Host of She's So Lucky]

when you were like, okay, I'm applying this somewhere where it feels like it has more of a natural flow.

[Rachel]

Yeah. And also, like, you kind of go from being a. I was kind of like a big fish in a small pond before, you know, because I might have been. And when I say creative, I just mean, like, I went to University of Illinois. Very typical all American Big ten school. Sports was a big part of the culture. Greek life was a big part of the culture. I wasn't really into either of those things. So I was the girl who was, like, wearing a beret to the bar. Like, you know, into fashion and, like, music and things that were like, not on the top 100 and not on the top 40. And that was the beginning of, like, really, Internet culture and the way where you could find little subgroups of things that you were interested in. So, like, I was the person that was like, yes, well adjusted in school and fairly popular and, like, you know, had friends, but also had this other side of me that was interested in, like, really dorky, nerdy things that was not, you know, I say this, you know, it's now, like, kind of being online is, like, part of popular, everyday culture. But it wasn't that at the time. It wasn't 20 years ago. So you were kind of a nerd if you were, like, running home to get on your computer after school. When I got to art school, you're a small fish in a big pond. Everyone is as talented as you, if not more. Everyone was a creative kid in their town. And some of these kids aren't even from small town. Some of them are from big. And so they had just so much more access and exposure to things that are things that I could have only dreamed about. So then by the time I got there, it did create this little bit of hustle in me where I was like, okay, actually, now I want to compete and be good at it.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

You know, that sense of. Of, like, motivation.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. And why fashion design?

[Rachel]

Why fashion design? Because it was just the language that I knew, right. Like I said, I grew up dancing. I was in a lot of fittings. I knew the concept of needle and thread because you have to sew your elastics onto your shoes or. Or sew your, you know, ribbons onto your pointe shoes. I knew that world. And it was just the point of. I. It was the thing that I had the most point of view on. I remember being very young, and this is not dissimilar again, to anybody who works in fashion. For the most part, when you're really young and you have very strong opinions about things very early. Like, I remember knowing or feeling really strongly that, like, this is lavender and this is a deep purple, or, like, knowing different shades of colors, like, even having those, like, 64 pack of crayons and knowing that, like, I needed the yellow green and I needed the regular green, and I needed the blue green, and they were all very different colors. And they were. It was very important to me, like, those little things that end up being seeds to who you'll be as an adult. I look back and I'm like, oh, yeah, this was a girl who had a really strong opinion about these things. But clothing, I don't know. I always had a sense of Style. I noticed style on other people. Again, I didn't know the word was style. But I would, like, you know, meet a teacher and her, like, dress was interesting to me. Or the way she styled her jewelry was interesting to me. Or, like, the way she would pair things. I just remember being very cutely aware to like that as an expression. And for myself too, like, not wanting to wear things that I felt uncomfortable. And it was like, a very important part of expressing myself as I was when I was young.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Do you feel like taste is something that's innate or can it be learned?

[Rachel]

I think it's both. I do. Especially now that I've spent so much time around this world that I'm in. I think some part of it's innate, but I do think it can be cultivated. Because after. When you start to study some things, you start to realize it's not. There is actually, like, a logic to it. And I think if you spend the time studying it, you'll start to have that eye for it. I mean, my eye got sharper when I went to art school, so I might have had, like, a general taste, but my taste was very, like, basic Midwestern indie black girl, you know, kind of punky. Like, listening to Fifi Dobson, it wasn't that sophisticated, but I knew I was, like, alt in a way. And so I know that from me being able to sharpen my own eye, that I do think it's both. It. It might be a foundation, but you can study it and you can get better and learn about, like, what things make sense and what things don't make sense. And if they don't make sense, you're putting those things together intentionally for the irony or whatever. Just making sure, like, everything feels cohesive. I think you can study that. Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. It almost makes me think about the idea of we all like what we like. But I think the next level is understanding why you like what you like and the different things that are all connected within that.

[Rachel]

Yeah. And it gets competitive. Like, imagine once you. You think you're a hotshot where you're from or whatever, but then you go and meet everybody who has all the same references as you, who knows all the same albums as you, who has a better eye or a sharper hand or a unique or a point of view. Was that. That was a thing in school you wanted to be. I mean, as any creative person, you want to develop a point of view. You don't wanna just copy the people that you admire. Cause I spent a lot of my early years just copying Designers that I liked and it wasn't really my point of view. So, yeah, you start to really be like, how can I make this mine versus how can I be derivative of something that already exists?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. And how is this something that can reflect me as opposed to just. And I think with the copying thing, part of that is how you learn that piece of experimentation and trying things and taking bits and pieces. Like, everybody's inspired by everybody, but then figuring out what that says about you.

[Rachel]

Yeah, that's the critical part is like figuring out what's yours versus what is like, everyone else's. I think a lot of people don't want to do that extra work because

[Host of She's So Lucky]

it can be hard. Like there's no clear cut answer and there's no one way to get there.

[Rachel]

No.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

It requires living.

[Rachel]

Living and also like deep internal analysis. Yeah. Because again, nobody is like you and everybody has unique experiences. And even if you have shared experiences with a demographic of people, like, I am a quintessential daughter of an immigrant African family who grew up in the Midwest and grew up in like, a lot of white and suburban towns, that's not unique to me. There's a million other black girls who've lived that exact same experience. So once you're in a certain subset, how do you go even deeper and create something that's even more unique? Right. So I don't think on the top layer, I don't think any of us are really that different. But I think once you keep going and you keep going, how do you find something that's yours? I think that's the work. And it is actually work. It's not something that I think just comes to you in a dream. Maybe for some people it is. That's not been the situation for me. It's required actually doing that. Like excavating.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Something that you dive into. Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel]

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[Host of She's So Lucky]

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[Host of She's So Lucky]

I want to start talking to you about business. Your first business, having your own fashion label and the process of that and the evolution that you've had as an entrepreneur starting in fashion, now moving to media. I'd love to first hear about your experiences having a fashion label. Some of the lessons that. That taught you that you apply to what you're doing now.

[Rachel]

Oh, my God. It was such a different business like the fashion design. Fashion business in general is a really. It's a hard business, especially now because, you know, on the one hand, it's very capital intensive. It's a lot of inventory, it's asset heavy to hold on and buy a lot of, you know, machinery, inventory, whatever. So. And then you also have to like, move quickly. And if you don't have systems and teams to do that, it's just. It's just a hard business. And it's certainly a hard business for an independent creator. So I definitely made a lot of mistakes with that business. I mean, I did exactly what they tell you not to do, which is like, don't start your own brand fresh out of school. But I was like, I really only had like a couple of brands that I wanted to work for fresh out of school. And my thinking was like, either I get hired there or I don't really, you know, or I start my own thing. Which is crazy. Cause I was so young and I really didn't know anything. But I also think that's really true to me. And I did learn a lot and I wasted a lot of money and I. But then there were pros. I feel like I did establish kind of a sensibility and a visual taste level within like the New York City design community. This was years ago, so I feel like that kind of helped me make certain relationships that I have now. But business wise, I wouldn't even say that it was like a real business in a lot of ways. I also think, to back up here, I also think that I did have this embroidery business that was running concurrently as the ready to wear business, and that was actually more lucrative than the ready to wear business. Then we started developing merch that ended up being more lucrative than the ready to wear business. What I also didn't know at the time is that I'm an entrepreneur. And I think. I don't even like that word. Honestly, I hate that word.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Ooh.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Why?

[Rachel]

Because it just like, what does that mean?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah, like you got kind of watered down.

[Rachel]

It's just. I just feel like it's. It doesn't mean anything today anymore. I mean, it's like, how many people do we know that's like the CEO and founder of nothing? Do you know what I mean? It's like, it just kind of feels like a Self important title in a way. But if you go back to the kind of traditional French term and the word and what it means. I did not know that I was an entrepreneur. And that's not to say that I'm like a millionaire and the most successful one. But what for me, what it means is I needed to be working for myself. I did not know that I wasn't a great employee for other people. I got fired from jobs and not because I wasn't competent. I got good grades in school. I knew that I was smart. But there was this other thing that I'm like, why is it not working out at me at other, other places? And in hindsight, I know why. So anyway, I digress. But like, I realized over time that like, I should be working for myself. And I also think when you're a kind of a serial entrepreneur, you're just gonna continue to try different things until something sticks. I think that's a very specific mindset. I think it's a very specific type of person who can endure that. So this kind of goes back to what I was saying. People romanticize the idea of being an entrepreneur, but very few people actually have the level of grit and determination and patience that it takes to actually find something that works. Because I've kissed a lot of frogs, like in business, as an entrepreneur. Like, you wouldn't even have called it a business. It was almost like a passion project that I was still iterating on, if that makes sense.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Oh yeah. I've referred to many things I've tried as expensive hobbies.

[Rachel]

Totally.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Because that is what they have been.

[Rachel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Expensive financially, expensive energetically, mentally. Did you have a moment where you were like, okay, now I'm in business.

[Rachel]

I feel like my podcast is the first time I've ever been in business. Well, I mean, it depends on what you mean. Like, was it generating money? Yes. Was it generating profit? Yes. Not the podcast, but like my clothing brand before, but it wasn't actually. I don't even know if the. Well, see, I also see them as like different businesses in a way because. Or revenue streams, rather. So like the Ready to wear brand never really. Maybe we broke even, but we did actually make money off of these smaller product categories that were not my passion and to me kind of felt low brow, but they were making money. We had this like accidental embroidery business which if, you know, you know, if you're an og, you know, follower of the brand, you remember this. But that ended up being a B2B business where originally we were making these Embroidered, hand embroidered shirts for friends and editors and things like that. But then it became a B2B business because these other bigger companies were ordering them as swag or whatever, gifts for their employees or a wrap party or whatever. So we ended up doing these larger quantities for companies like Spotify or Instagram or Bumble or, you know, a production company that was having wrap parties. Like I said, people didn't know about that, but, like, that's what was generating the most revenue. Anyway, I digress. That was not the question. But I just say all that to say that, like. And then I closed that business, you know, so there's just been a lot of, like, little things that I've done to just keep the lights on. But it wasn't because I had ever had a business plan. Yeah, you know what I mean? I feel like business can be so formulaic today and I never followed any of that.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah, I think that's also a good example that sometimes the things that do keep the lights on or that might be more lucrative are often the kind of unsexy things.

[Rachel]

Yeah, always so under the radar.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Unsexy things are the things sometimes that can like, drive the most revenue, if that's how you're defining a business.

[Rachel]

Totally. But anyway, so I would say that the podcast, my show, the Cutting Room Floor, is probably the first time that we've. I've truly been in business, I would say.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

So let's talk about the Cutting Room Floor, which you started in 2018, so you were early in the podcast wave. I started in 2018 too. So I feel like all of us who started pre Covid when podcasting at its core was truly about conversation. It's just been such a different experience and we've seen so much change in the space.

[Rachel]

Did you listen to Serial Radio?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

No.

[Rachel]

Oh, really? Okay. I always think of people who started around the same time that we did if they were interested in cereal, because that was what got.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

That was what got a lot of people into it. I started listening to podcasts when I was listening to self help stuff in 2013. That was like. Well, I was very deep into like wellness personal development. That was like my segue.

[Rachel]

Interesting. So you were into, like storytelling. Because it was a lot of storytelling podcasts, like true crime and this and that. Okay. I feel like if anyone who started in 2017, 18, et cetera, I always think like, we were the children of serial radio because, like, that was like the next cohort of people who got into the medium.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

I mean, yeah, I definitely remember that time for sure. And I feel like that was pre Covid. It was like that was the first wave of what got people really interested in listening to shows.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

For sure.

[Rachel]

You've been podcasting for a long time too, then. So you get it, girl?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

You get it.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

We'll see, girl.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

We'll see.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

I'm gonna also come back to the cutting room floor and the beginning of it. And I'm curious from your perspective, in terms of your vision for it, how it has changed from when you first started it to now.

[Rachel]

I mean, the vision is still pretty much on track. It's just more that. There's so much more we want to do that we haven't really done yet. But, I mean, the premise of the show was a fashion podcast, a fashion show, essentially. And how deep do you want to go?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Let's go deep.

[Rachel]

All in the slogan at the time. I mean, it still is a slogan, especially for people who've been listening for a really long time. But it was fashion's only fashion show, and I named it that because there were no other fashion podcasts at the time. In fact, this medium didn't make sense to anybody. Now you'll obviously see that, like, most, you know, fashion media entities have a podcast. But I really started it right as blogs were dying out. And really, blogs had kind of already been dead, to be honest. It was more that Instagram was starting to become the biggest thing, so the bloggers had kind of seamlessly transitioned into influencers. Print was obviously still circling the drain. And again, I had discovered serial. And I was so captivated by this idea of, like, audio storytelling. This is before video podcasts became a thing, which I'm sure you remember. And I was kind of in between this, like, rock and a hard place, because while podcasting, people who were. A lot of them were X Radio, came from NPR or iHeart or Sirius or whatever, they understood podcasting. You know, the people at Gimlet, whatever, they didn't understand the fashion part. So when I would say, like, if it's a fashion podcast, they're like, I don't understand. Shouldn't that be visual? How would that work? Like, what do you mean? So the culture part they were really missing. The fashion people understood fashion, but they didn't understand podcasting, because in terms of media, they were just moving a bit slower. So I was like, how do I get these two people to understand that this is the thing that we should be doing? And so that took a bit of time. And when I started podcasting, I really couldn't get anybody. You know, the big question was around, how do you monetize this? I certainly believed in the content that I was putting out that I felt very strongly convicted about, even though it was very low fi, it was very low budget. I'd spent, like $300 on recording equipment, three, four hundred dollars from B and H, and, like, taught myself how to record an MP3. Like, that felt like such a big challenge at the time. But on either side of the aisle, I knew that either party didn't understand the missing component to what would make this work well. And so I just did it on my own, and I didn't know how to monetize it. I mean, that was a big conversation in podcasting in general. I mean, this is like, when I started podc, this was kind of like, it was like an arms race between Apple and Spotify and who's going to take it, and it ended up kind of being Spotify, and they invested the most in it. And that makes sense because at the end of the day, Apple sells hardware, but instead of software. But I didn't know how to monetize it. And I also wasn't that concerned in the beginning. Those first three years, I was doing it for free. I was putting it out anywhere you would get your podcast. So, yeah, I mean, I knew making money off of it would be cool. Could be cool. It wasn't the number one priority in the beginning. There was interest in it quite early because we did have sponsorships, because we had, like, this little events business where we would, like, go to different locations and do a live episode that was, I guess you could say a money maker. But the actual, like, weekly episodes were not making any money. Like, there was no ads being run against it is what I mean. Yeah. So I was just making it for fun for those first three years.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. And then three years in, you decided to put it and then.

[Rachel]

Yeah, three years. And I decided to put it on Patreon. Yeah. Which I didn't really know what Patreon was at the time. I had heard about it from somebody who, like, worked in fintech, and they were like, have you heard of this thing? And then I was like, I don't know what that is. And I thought it was maybe like a GoFundMe Kickstarter. Like, I didn't know what it was, but I ended up getting on there because my logic was if even half of the people that were listening to the show and I was putting it out wide would follow me, then there would be some revenue. Yeah. So my thinking was like, I just need to make money off of this because I know what I'm making is good and I know that I'm uniquely qualified to do it because this industry is so gatekept in a lot of ways and it's still very relationship space and there's a lot of really interesting stories. I mean, this industry is very fascinating to me. So I felt like I know a certain level of information or better yet, I have access to the people who have the stories to tell. And so that's how it started. And I just built my audience on Patreon ever since then, which would have been 2021. So like five years ago. Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Which I feel like was still quite early in terms of like the listener or community supported types of media. I think it's gotten really popular over the past couple of years, especially with substack and so many people kind of monetizing their writing or the things that they put behind paywalls there. But at the time, that was still relatively early to have something like that. That was the show not a bonus, because I think that's how I'd seen a lot of people use. It was like subscribe to our Patreon for an extra episode or ad free content or it was seen as a plus. But to put the whole thing there at that time was like a really bold move.

[Rachel]

Totally. Because I really didn't have, it's like audacity before you have the reason to like have that audacity. I didn't have a huge audience, first of all. The other thing is, like, culturally, my industry's on substack, you know. So not only was it early to Patreon, but I was also early to like multimedia in that way. Like now they have introduced some of that stuff. But substack was for writers at the end of the day. And that's why I think a lot of fashion writers or any kind of journalists congregated over there. But I had this prediction that journalists in the traditional written sense would need to become broadcast journalists eventually. And as you can see, that is what most of them are doing. They are all on camera now. And so I had that sensibility early. I knew that podcasting was the way I wanted to go because I never really had an inclination to write. That wasn't my thing. I can write. I do have a huge respect for it. I love reading and therefore love writers. But it wasn't my medium of choice. I'm like a yapper. I can talk all day long. I can get My thoughts out better. Yeah. I'm a voice note person more than a text person. Like, I just know how to talk. So I was always attracted to podcasting and fashion media still. And going onto this, you know, brand new platform that people didn't really know about, and then asking people to pay for content, which was, again, a new concept at the time, and saying that you can't get this anywhere else. Like the exclusivity thing that I had already felt very convicted about, which is now something that has paid off. But you're right, most people that were on Patreon then, but especially now, used it as either bonus content or early access. And I didn't feel like that was a strong enough value proposition. And the reason being is because I know how I am as a consumer, and if you tell me to wait three days and it'll become available for free, I'm waiting the three days. Right. Aren't you like, I'm like, early access is not enough for me to want to pay for something. So I didn't think. And I thought if my audience thinks like how I do, they're not going to pay for it. They're just gonna wait till I make it free. So there were just a couple little things about how I chose to use Patreon different than how people typically were using it. And I also think I'll add this on, is that for a lot of people that are on Patreon now, not everybody, but as some of the early adopters of it were, like YouTubers who already had a big audience elsewhere. And then we're using Patreon as, like you said, bonus supplementary content. And for me, I'm native to the platform, essentially. I had no audience anywhere else that was bigger that I brought into Patreon. It didn't really work like that. I built brick by brick on that platform for the last five years. And I think that's the one, like, big difference is that I wasn't like a YouTube star who came over there. It was like, no, no, I'm starting here.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. Trying to get your people from another platform over there.

[Rachel]

Yeah. Just using social media as a marketing vehicle to bring people back to Patreon. Yeah, for sure.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

I mean, it's something that I really admire because I even think I'm like, I don't know if I could get my audience to pay for. To pay me for content in any capacity, but this a lot.

[Rachel]

And I have a lot of thoughts on this.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

I think it's like anything else in the world of Business. It's product market fit, and it's a value proposition at the end of the day. And one thing that I believed in really early on was that people didn't like me. I didn't ever believe that people would like me enough to continue to pay. The product was never me, per se, and I'm coming off of a gift member coming off the heels of Influencer, which is a lot of it was just like, look at me, look at me. My cute dress, my cute. This, my cute. I'm just a cute girl, and that's fine. But I always felt that there had to be something that the audience could glean from what I was saying, so there had to be some form of utility in the show. And that's why I was so adamant about infusing education or teachings. And not from a sense of a teacher, but from the sense that I'm gonna have somebody come on the show that you can learn something from. And that way, on the days that you don't like me or on the days that you're, you know, not interested in what I'm wearing, whatever, that it could be useful to somebody for sure. So the value proposition had to matter. It was like, what will you get for paying from. For this? And is it a good value proposition? I think we have a really good value proposition because the price isn't that high. It's like right now, it's 650amonth to get two episodes a month. But the two episodes are done really well and really well researched. And we're not inundating your inbox with, like, a new email or a newsletter or whatever, because I don't like that. So I think about it a lot through. A lot through the lens of how I behave as a consumer. Yeah. And I think paying for content is a tricky. It's a tricky proposition in a time where people are now having subscription fatigue. Yeah. Because we're being asked to pay for everything. So I don't think. It's not that people would pay for content. I just think they have to have that offering of value. It's really more that. And that they're not getting it somewhere else or whatever. Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

That makes a lot of sense. It's also really interesting, that piece that you said about the ways that you like to consume content. Because I feel like that's been my biggest challenge is, like, the ways that I like to consume content. What I think is interesting, what I'm interested in creating is not at all how my audience consumes and what they want And I'm constantly, like in friction with that and figuring out, like.

[Rachel]

But then your audience, aren't they by nature interested in the way you're doing it?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yes and no. Elements of it. I ended up in a really weird spot where I'm kind of halfway between influencer culture and not. So it's like, I think people would love for me to lean more into influencer culture, which I have, like a foot in, because that was my background, but I'm trying to lean out of it.

[Rachel]

Into what, like entrepreneurship or.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah, more so. Just this. But, like, not successfully.

[Rachel]

Well, yet maybe, but still could be, you know.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. So I just think it's interesting just the different ways that, you know, people build things.

[Rachel]

That's a tricky one because sometimes the influencer route can be such low hanging fruit and it's so easy and the bag is right there and all you have to do is do this thing or post this thing or say this thing. And like, and if you're trying to be really intentional about what you want to be known for, it is hard to turn that down so that you can pursue, like, your greater vision. Yes. So I do get that. Yes. Because even me, there's sometimes where I'm like, you know how much money I would be making if I was just posting? Like, I have this following for. I have the numbers. Like, if I was just giving you outfits of the day and tagging the brands, I would be rip, you know, But I just, I don't do it. Yeah, for sure.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

For sure.

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[Host of She's So Lucky]

You talked a bit about how you've built on Patreon. Also recently, there have been some very exciting news, Maybe a lucky moment that you created, we could say, where you recently announced this really amazing landmark deal with Patreon, which is something they've never done before.

[Rachel]

Yeah. Early June, we announced that we're doing this multi year partnership with Patreon. And I'm just really proud because it makes sense. I mean, we had had a lot of offers from a lot of different media companies about taking our show to them. And we explored all of those opportunities. And the Patreon deal just made the most sense for us. I had been saying only on Patreon for the last several years, and I was exclusive to the platform without anyone asking me to be. Patreon was not asking me to be exclusive to the platform. I just did that because I felt that was the best way to bring in an audience and also to stand on business, on your product and be like, it's deal or no deal. Either you're gonna pay for it or you're not gonna get access to it. And I believed in it that much. So five years later, to be doing a deal with them of this magnitude is really special because one, we didn't have to compromise what we were already doing. Yeah. To make that make sense. Yeah. Also to be paid for doing something you were already doing is like the greatest sense of alignment I could ever impart on somebody. It's like I was already doing it. I was already doing it exclusively. I already enjoyed it. I learned a lot about the platform because I literally grew with the platform and watched all the features be developed. And so I knew it well. And so the deal came to fruition because we basically propositioned them and said this would make a lot of sense. And what I really appreciated is that nobody fought back or pushed back on it. They understood and agreed from the very first meeting we ever took.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Wow. So you went to them and said, here's how a deeper partnership could look could make sense. Can we explore this?

[Rachel]

Yeah. Because we had been being poached, you know, quite aggressively by so many different media companies. And that was also an indicator to me that, like, there's market value here. People want this show. And most people were like, why are you on Patreon? Because they didn't really understand it. And like I said, my industry is on a different app for the most part. And that's not lost on me. And it was not lost on Patreon. Right.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

And so when that many people are, you know, trying to date you, it does give you a little bit of leverage, but not from a, you know, the leverage was there, but it also, it made sense for both of us to do it. Both people would win. And I'm a big, I'm a big believer that the best partnerships are when both people feel lucky. Right. And so, ooh, I like that. That's the best sign that something, you know, whether that's dating, whether that's friendship, whether that's in business, like you want both parties to be like, I'm getting a great deal out of this. And you're like, and I'm getting a great deal out of this. We're all benefiting, we're all benefiting from this. So, you know, it made sense for the, for the user and for the audience. It made sense to keep that messaging continuity only on Patreon. That was one thing for Patreon, you know, we were able to bring these amazing guests onto the platform and get them to also advocate for the platform for us. It meant that we were going to be able to grow our operation even bigger. And part of announcing this deal was an interview I did with the CEO of Patreon, Jack.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yes.

[Rachel]

And it sounds like such a pluggy type of episode, but like, it's not. I really, really impress upon people to go listen to it because his theory around the future of the Internet and where it's going and algorithms make a need for Patreon that much more important, you know, to be able to have a place even. I have felt this myself as a content creator, being able to like duck away from the noise of like the out wide algorithms and being able to go tap in directly to my community because there I'm not confused. They're paying, so they're gonna listen to what I'm saying and they're gonna have a lot more thought and care and respect and discernment for how they communicate or I give feedback or disagree. It's so much more of a tasteful environment than it is being out wide, which is just chaos sometimes, you know, pure chaos. So having these little gated communities I think is really helpful and maybe, I don't know, but the future in a lot of different ways.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. Which I think could be potentially interesting. And I think especially as a creator and as someone who is creating in media, it's so clear that the benefits are there for Having your people who are probably not paying to hate watch and hate listen. And even if they don't agree, are there to have respectful discourse and because they're invested in what's happening. And then there's another part of me where I think about, for the consumers, I wonder if that could also potentially lead to even more silos and what that looks like.

[Rachel]

You mean like subscription fatigue?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Not even subscription fatigue, but like if you're opting in, if everything you consume is what you're opting into and investing in, which is not necessarily a bad thing per se, depending on what people are investing in, do they also never get any other perspectives depending on what it is they choose to invest in and consume?

[Rachel]

Well, that's interesting because that kind of goes back to what it used to be like to follow somebody and subscribe.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Which is almost like a non effective, even metric anymore. Right. I mean, it didn't cost money to do it, but when we would subscribe to somebody, you actually see their stuff. You would see their stuff. And it was like, but I don't think any of us thought, well, what will I not be able to see something else if I see this? We were choosing what we wanted to see. Same thing with YouTube. Like, like, don't forget to like and subscribe. And so those would be the things that would populate your explore page first, because that's, that's who you chose to see. The algorithm changed all that. So now TikTok especially, and TikTok and then everybody wanted to model themselves after TikTok. So that has completely turned everything upside down. And so now, and this is what that episode is about. When I interviewed the CEO of Jack and he was also very. Sorry, the CEO of Jack? The CEO of Patreon, Jack Conti. He was also very hyper aware of this, kind of a bit before his time. And he's a creator and grew up, you know, built his career on YouTube and all these things before he even founded a tech company. So he comes from the lens of being a creator and that's special because he knows what it is that we need or what we would feel and some of the obstacles that we face. But yeah, the subscription, the follow, all those things were like critical metrics for the relationship between the creator and the consumer. And now that the algorithm has kind of intercepted and acted as the middleman, we're getting told what we want to see. And sometimes, oh my God, this is something I want to talk about because it's a hill I'm going to die on Sometimes you're being the over. The algorithm will over index on what they think I want. Yeah. And then it makes me resent that creator. Not because I don't like them, but because the person. The algorithm is showing me every single thing that has to do with them.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Or a topic. It'll be a topic into the ground.

[Rachel]

And I'm like, oh, my God, now I have to like, use. Block these code words or whatever so that I can kind of like curate my feed. But yeah, the algorithm changed how we consume media almost indefinitely. Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. You know, I think probably my biggest concern, I guess I'm getting more specific is like, let's say there's somebody who is like 10 toes down on subscribing to like every Maga, substack, Patreon, whatever. Because it's out there and that's all. They never get any outside information that could potentially. I mean, who knows? We all. There's not. Those are tough nuts to crack. But like, anything outside of that and then we continue going deeper and deeper down that path. Like what that could look like. But we already kind of get that.

[Rachel]

We kind of already have it because that's why everything feels so polarized and radicalized and people. You know, I think the. So here's the interesting thing. I think the algorithm has more ability to radicalize people than what you're describing, than the person doing it themselves and only choosing specific media. Yeah. I think the algorithm can take you down really wild rabbit holes and you don't realize you're there because it's kind of how the algorithm works.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

The pipelines.

[Rachel]

And when we talk about pipelines. Exactly. I think the. The actual technology is more likely to do that to someone rather than somebody voting in and only following the same things. We do that with our attention.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

And that's why it's so important to be mindful of what you're paying attention to. As if you're just. Because it's called paying attention. So we're literally paying it. And you have to be so mindful of what you're consuming and how much time and attention you're giving it. This is why I'm a big believer in ignoring hateful comments. I'm a big believer in ignoring shitty people. I'm a big believer in ignoring content you don't. Like, swipe up the minute you see it. Like, don't give it any life, because if you do, the algorithm will assume you like that and give you more of it. And this is like a spiritual practice, but it's Also, like a media diet practice. Like, you have to be so mindful of where your attention is going because it is so powerful. And they know. Know that these companies are building huge businesses running ads against content that you consume and spend your time on. So, like, rage bait, don't fall for it. All sorts of nonsense that we see watching, hate watching.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Why would you.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

That doesn't make sense.

[Rachel]

It can feel. It can feel like kind of like tempting and like, you know, cathartic and whatever, but don't do it because, like, you're literally paying people when you do that.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

So I just, you know, I try to encourage people and remind them, like, how important their attention is. And like, think about where you're putting it because it's literally making some people broke or rich, you know?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Sure. Yeah. Coming back to your Patreon deal, you had also released one of your, Your quick cuts, your. Your solos, which I do really love. Afterwards, talking a bit about, like, envy and about some of, like, the dark sides of when you have something really exciting happen. And it's like, can be kind of a mixed bag of responses. I don't want to give away too much because, you know, the girls can subscribe and listen to the full.

[Rachel]

Let me tell you what it's about.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

But I would love to get into that a little bit because I would imagine that for our. That's something that people experience where it's like you have something really good happen or something really exciting happen, and that's when sometimes some things. Yeah, Yeah.

[Rachel]

I mean, hey, envy, I mean, jealousy, these are all really real concepts. And I think sometimes we don't give ourselves. You know, I didn't grow up with a. They're just jealous of you, Mom. You know what I mean? Like, the people who are like, no problem.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

It's not.

[Rachel]

It's everybody else. It's not you. I didn't grow up that way. I grew up with somebody who. Who was very, very big on radical. Radical responsibility. Like, it's always your fault. Even when it's not your fault, it's your fault. So I think thinking about jealousy is a hard thing to interpret, especially if you're not an egomaniac and you're not super vain. You're not naturally going to think like, oh, well, they're just jealous. You're not going to think that. First you're gonna be like, well, what is it? Or, I don't know, I tried to be nice to them. Or is it that? Or did they not like my dress? Or was I rude? You're gonna start. Most people of, you know, most decent people are gonna self reflect before they assume that somebody was jealous of them. But the tea is some people are just jealous. And that's. That really is what it is. And I think I've always been able to see that more in my professional life more than my personal life, honestly. Although I think it's happened in both places. But we all know that feeling of having great news and somebody, you know, not really paying it any mind or not really giving you the kind of energy that you would have thought. Or it could be a close friend, so not a stranger, someone who you would think would be so happy for you, and they're not. Or, you know, we're used to seeing people in a certain position. Everybody does this or categorizing people in their mind. Well, they're down here and I'm up here and. But if they start to climb, then. Then what happens? Then how tenuous is your position? Right? And so then people start to look to the left and look to the right. And, you know, I was listening to Emma Greed's podcast, and she had Gary Vaynerchuk on, and he said something that stuck with me, which is that as he was building his business and his way to the top, so to speak, he always thought that people got there from confidence and that it wasn't until he got there that he realized that a lot of very powerful, successful people were insecure. And that resonated with me so much because I always thought everybody got there from confidence, from just knowing who they were and what they wanted. And like, you get to almost like, you see athletes, right? Like you, like, real recognizes real steel sharpensteel like, you're good, I'm good. And that we're all there and the sense of camaraderie and that everybody is the best in class and like, that competition is exciting. But that's not what's going on. There are some people who are in a position of power who are deeply insecure. And that was. I have some examples coming to mind

[Host of She's So Lucky]

for you, not just in pop culture.

[Rachel]

Oh, yeah, pop culture. Or in your workplace. Your boss who's ahead of you and above you, who's actually jealous of you. So, like, what I've learned is, like, you don't really know who's jealous of what or what is inspiring it from. From them or inspiring it out of them. I've been jealous before too, which is what that episode that I posted was about. And I think what I've learned as I've matured is like how to transmute and alchemize that jealousy rather than just letting it sit there and be like, you know. Because I think that's natural, especially when somebody has something that you want. Like, it's hard. It's really hard when you're like, I. Or if you've been working for it. Like, I want that and I do this and you eat carbs, for Christ's sake. You know, like, it's a really natural feeling to be like, well, I want that. How do you get that? How did you get that? And, you know, I think what's more important is it's not the feeling in and of itself that's the crime. It's just not knowing how to translate into that, into something that can bring you more abundance. Because the more you harbor those kind of resentful feelings, the further away you stay from the thing that you actually want. But it took me years to learn that, by the way. Years. Like, I've been a jealous hater too. And I think when this deal was announced, which is, you know, to me, it's like my first big deal that we've ever done. You know, I've been so scrapping and scrounging around for like a decade trying to figure out, like, what works. And now in my late 30s, by the way, I finally have something that I'm like, oh, yes, like, we did it, we've done it. It makes sense. It's very validating in a lot of ways. And to take that out to people who you would think would be so excited, who know how hard it's been for you, who've seen you bleed, sweat, cry, tear. You know what I mean?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Seen you in the mud.

[Rachel]

Seen you in the mud and them not be happy for you. That is an eye opening experience that I hope everybody gets to experience, to be honest.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

It teaches you a lot. Yeah, it teaches you a whole lot. I also think it can also teach you about yourself too, in like, what comes up when that happens. What have you learned about yourself since experiencing that?

[Rachel]

Like experiencing haters or jealousy.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

This version of it?

[Rachel]

I think part of it is not to. And again, this is going to sound cliche because I think we all tell ourselves of this in different ways, but I think part of it is like not to shortchange myself and you know.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Rachel]

Like, how many times do we feel like, how do I say this? There's a lot that I've done successfully that I'm really proud of and yet I still have moments where I'm Like, I'm not gonna say that or I'm not gonna do that. You know, when you just. You're hedging your bets and you hold back, and when you see how many people have a jealous reaction to your being successful in whatever shape and form it comes in, and you're like, I wasn't even hitting the gas. You think of all the times that you're like, I wasn't even going hard. Imagine if I was going hard. Then you're like, wow, people must see something in me that I don't see in myself. It's so hard. I think if you're.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

That's a good motivator.

[Rachel]

Yeah. I think if you're, like, a humble person, it's hard to take inventory on the things that someone would be jealous of you for.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Right.

[Rachel]

Like, it's not. It's not a natural thing to do for yourself. Yeah. And yet there is somebody who's looking at you less and is like, I'm so jealous of her. She has this podcast. She's so pretty. She does this, she does that. She lives in New York. Like, I want to move to New York. You don't know it, because you're. All you see is, like, you yourself, hustling. And I feel like I'm that same way. There's a million things where I'm like, oh, my God, if we could just get this. If we could just hire this person. Why is this taking so long? If we did it and how did they. And you're looking left, and you're right, and you're seeing people zoom past you. Right. Like, I started a podcast eight years ago. There's bitches who started a podcast two years ago, and it's, like, soaring way bigger than my. You know what I mean, girl?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Don't I? Don't I know it. We have a whole episode about that, you know?

[Rachel]

And you look around and you're like, bazoom, zoom, zoom. And you're like, how did you. Wait. What? So, yeah, it's so easy to, like, only be thinking about the things that are challenges for you while not recognizing that somebody else is watching you and hating on you because they might want to be doing that exact same thing. But all of it is part of the ecosystem, right? All of it. There's room for all of it. But I just think that what I've learned is to not shortchange myself, because there are people who are jealous of me at 5, not even at 10. Imagine if I was at 10, you know, and really giving it my Absolute all and never second guessing anything and moving with complete confidence and conviction all the time. Like, we don't do that all the time, but we should practice. And also it's taught me that everybody is going through their own shit. Everybody has their own narrative running through their mind. I mean, I've had people be jealous of me that I'm like, you have everything. Why would you be jealous of me? You have everything in the whole world and you're focused on me, aren't you? So happy that you've accomplished this. And that's when I learned jealousy is not necessarily about people. It can come in all different sizes. It's not because somebody has more material things in a third dimension than you. Someone can be jealous of your spirit. Somebody can be jealous of your kindness. Somebody can be jealous of your beauty. Somebody could. I mean, you don't know what it is.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

That that was something you talked about was like the light.

[Rachel]

People can be jealous of your light. Yeah, people can be jealous. I talked about how I was jealous of this girl who had like a great family because I come from a quite broken family. And that used to, oh, make me so mad. And then you say these like, snide comments because you're like, you get an A on your test and your whole family is celebrating you. Like, that doesn't happen in my house. You know, you can be jealous of anything and. And you' going to be aware of what the thing is that somebody's projecting onto you. You would have to know so much about their inner dialogue and their childhood experiences to be able to do that math. You won't know what it is. So my new attitude towards that when I can sense it and even when I can't, because that's the other thing. How many people have we had around us that are haters and we didn't

[Host of She's So Lucky]

know until, like, we realize it later.

[Rachel]

Until you find out later or through something painful or whatever.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

My new thing now is like, like, honestly just like blessing that person and trying to like, not let it affect me. And I say it from a place of someone who's also been on that in those shoes. I'm like, oh, I want that and you don't deserve that. And then you start doing math. Well, they don't deserve it because of this girl. Don't even trip because whatever's coming for you is meant for you. And like, we. It's very hard, especially now, very hard, to not compare yourself. I do it all the time. Like, lately I've been in this, like, little Comparison spree about what?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Like, little things.

[Rachel]

Like, shit. That's like. Like, I've just. Because normally I'm not like this for the most part. I do think I am pretty good at, like, staying the course and focusing, but I've been, like, feeling it in myself. Like, I'm, like, kind of looking around and I'm like. And I can feel almost like. Like, the power draining from the cup. Like, I can feel myself not being on my game because I'm looking around. I can genuinely feel it happening. And I'm like, why am I so focused on what everybody else is doing? And then you, like, you know, I'll meditate, I'll pray, I'll get back in my zone and, like, be like, okay, we need to. We need to focus here. But with social media, it's really hard to not look around and be like, every life is happening for everyone else except for me.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Constant. Constant.

[Rachel]

And it's just not true. It's just not true. Yeah. You know?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. I feel like that's a good reframe, though. When we think about creating our own luck. When we think about things that block our luck or drain our ability to create our own luck. I like what you said just now about draining the cup and. And where that energy can be better used. I think that that's a really good example of it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel]

Just bless the person who's feeling some type of way.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yes. And let it go.

[Rachel]

And if you are jealous, this is my advice. If you are jealous of somebody, because we've all been there. When you get that little pang in your chest being like, oh, I want that, just say, so happy for her and give, like, true. Like, abundance and generosity. That person. I don't know how they got that. Amazing. I hope I can call that in for myself. That means it's on the way to me if that person. You know, you have to. Because I started doing that, like, six years ago, and I really think it helped. Yeah.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

And you felt like you saw a shift. Felt the shift.

[Rachel]

1,000%. 1,000%. Because hating is easy.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah. And it gets you nowhere.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

So, Rachel, before we go, I would love to hit you with a little rapid fire.

[Rachel]

Let's do it.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Rapid fire. First thing that comes to mind with these questions.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Your most unpopular fashion opinion.

[Rachel]

Light wash denim. Ugh. I don't like it bad. I think it looks tacky. I think it looks cheap. Light wash denim. I think it looks. It's not good. Super light. No. Medium wash, dark wash, Fine. I do not like Light wash denim.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

We love a hot take. Your most recent impractical purchase.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

That was totally worth it.

[Rachel]

Recent impractical purchase. That was worth it.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yes.

[Rachel]

A lot of my purchases are practical, but the most impractical thing that I do habitually is buy things that I know need to be tailored and they never make it to the tailor. I think that's, like, just a bad habit. It's like my new thing, like, just buy stuff that fits because I'm just not the. I just create another errand for myself and then I never do it. And then there's like, a nice thing sitting on a rack that I'm like. I've never taken that to the. So that's, like, impractical in terms of my lifestyle. It's like, girl, you're not gonna take that to the tailor. You're not gonna go get that fitted perfectly. Just buy stuff that fits.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

It's true. I have a graveyard of things that need to be hemmed. That is just.

[Rachel]

Do they make it there?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

They are not hemmed. I gotta wear some tall shoes.

[Rachel]

Yeah. Do you buy it thinking you're gonna go take it to get hemmed?

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yes, I do. And then it somehow doesn't. Doesn't happen.

[Rachel]

Doesn't happen.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Does not happen. One day. One day. The boldest decision you've made so far as a founder.

[Rachel]

Mm. Boldest decision I've made so far as a founder. I feel like it's a series of bold decisions all the time. Right. Maybe going to the C suite of Patreon and presenting to them a deal. That was pretty audacious.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

I know this is supposed to be rapid fire, but I also think that there's so much beauty in that story because somebody from the outside looking in could see you get a deal and be like, oh, they just gave her this thing. Not knowing the backstory of what you shared with us today, that that was your idea and you went to them and moved forward with it together. And I think sometimes we often have these ideas that when we see people have something exciting or do something exciting, like a fairy godmother came and just gave it to them. And that's often not the case.

[Rachel]

Maybe they have an agent who's organizing their life for them or something. That's not what happened to me.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Ye.

[Rachel]

So, yeah, I would say that was pretty bold. And I mean, obviously you have to have, like, some, you know, data and credentials to land something like that. Obviously. But they could look under the hood and see what the numbers were, you know, so they knew More I didn't have to do that much convincing, but again, really proud, really grateful that. That the stars aligned there. Yeah, yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

A signal you pay attention to that other people in fashion and media ignore.

[Rachel]

Okay, so. So I call the cutting room floor a fashion show. And when I say that, I think sometimes people get confused because they think it means, like, clothing or fashion in the traditional sense. But the way we kind of, like, subvert the word fashion is just to mean, like, the way in which someone does something right. Like the fashion in which you change a tire, whatever. So what I think is really interesting and actually critically important about the fashion industry is being able to look outside of it and use all of that information to then inform the way in which we do things. So I think it's like almost a cultural analysis more so than it is a fashion show, which is to say, like shopping or getting dressed. Sometimes we'll have guests on. People are like, I thought this was a fashion podcast. And it will always have something to do with fashion somehow, but. Or it'll be interviewing people who are in the business. But I think what I pay attention to is everything on the fringe. I paid attention to, like, TikTok before the industry was really getting on there and paying attention to it. I pay attention to, like, streamers. I pay attention to any kind of subculture where there's, like, some weird community that is feeling very sticky. Like, people are very curious and, like, bought in on that thing. I like to go to spaces that are early. And this is also something. Fashion is a very conservative business, by the way. People don't think that. And they tend to move in lockstep and follow the herd, and they're not that innovative. And they want to see something works before somebody else does it. And so in that, there's a lot of room for opportunity and innovation. And I kind of always go left if people are going right. Cause there's something to the left if everyone's going right. It's probably oversaturated or on its way to being oversaturated. And that doesn't mean that it's bad or whatever. But when it comes to this business, I think part of the reason why we've been able to, like, bob and weave and be quite agile is because we're not going down the very traditional path that's already been created. So things I pay attention to it was that the question signal that a lot of people in the industry don't pay attention to. It's really everything other than fashion that's architecture. That's design, that's YouTube, YouTubers, that's. I don't know, there's like a million different mediums and then you can go grab it all and then bring it back to fashion. But I think when fashion's too self referential or too same on same, I think that's what a lot of the business does. And it kind of gets really stale and boring quite quickly.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

I like that though, because I feel like you gave us so many examples today of being ahead of the curve. You know what I mean? Like being a bit ahead of what's going on and you're just told. You just kind of explain that really beautifully.

[Rachel]

Yeah, you have to be. You have to be kind of brave to do the thing that nobody else is doing, though. That's the other thing that comes with it. It's scary and you don't have any proof that anything works and all of that. But I think it's also people have proven over and over again, people who invested in something early, people who, like, you just have to believe it's really your own internal gut measurement if you believe that something can work. Listening to yourself more than you listen to other people, I mean, that's also been like a big thing for me. It's like I listen to myself, really. I have a really good relationship with myself and I definitely trust me more than I trust, trust anyone else walking the planet. That and God, that's it. So, you know, I can take advice, but usually if in my gut I can feel that something's off, I'm just not. I'm just gonna listen to that first because I've done it the other way and I know what happens when I don't listen.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

You always regret it.

[Rachel]

And you always, always regret it. So now there's no point in even second guessing her. If she says we're going, we're going. If she says we're not going, I'm not going. Like, I don't need to answer, I don't need to explain it. We're just, we're not doing it because I know she's right. So that's usually what I do. Just listen to yourself.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah, that intuition piece.

[Rachel]

That intuition piece. That'll make you real lucky. Yeah, yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

The biggest misconception people have about you,

[Rachel]

the feedback that I get a lot is like, oh, you're so much warmer than I thought you would be. So maybe people think I'm colder than I am.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Why do you think that is?

[Rachel]

Maybe because they've seen my interviews and nothing else. Or that could be part of it. I mean, some of it's true. Like, I am pretty strict. I run a tight ship. I like certain things a very specific way. I don't really like. I don't like to be bullshitted. That's my number one thing. If you bullshit me, we're have a big problem because I'm going to know, and then it's going to be awkward and d. So, like, that kind of stuff, that's more of, like, an integrity kind of personal standard thing. But in terms of, like, how I interact with other people, like, I'm warm. I love connecting with people. I love asking people questions. So I think that maybe because of that first part, I think people are surprised when they're like, oh, you're actually really nice or warm. I just get that a lot. You're warmer than I thought you would be. And I'm always like, what'd you think? I was like. But I just think in general, especially as a woman in business, but in general, I think we're still. Yet still trying to understand what it is to hold all of these different. To hold. To allow women to be so many different types of things. You know, it's like I grew up in a paradigm where you were, like, sweet or you were the bitch, and there was like, you can be both. It depends on the day, you know? So I think that's part of it. Also, being a black woman, there's also just, like, this expected mean girlness or harshness that people impose on you. And, like, you're like, I'm lovely. I'm just black. There's no reason for you to think of me as a villain. So I don't know. But I think in large part, I don't really know what people think of me. I've tried to, like, do that analysis, and I always say I have, like, body dysmorphia for my own perception. Like, I don't really know what people see. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

For the better, I think. I don't think we need to know as much.

[Rachel]

Yeah. When they say it's not your business. Yeah. I don't really know. But I do get that feedback a lot, so maybe that's an indication.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Yeah.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Last thing. A moment recently where you felt lucky, and this could be a moment of luck. You created yourself or something that did feel. Kiss me lucky.

[Rachel]

Lucky, lucky, lucky. A moment I felt lucky. I love that your show is called she's so Lucky, by the way. And I love this premise that you can create your own Luck. Because it just speaks to, like, the empowerment. Like, is it. Was it luck or was it on purpose? I don't know. A moment. I felt lucky. I feel lucky all the time. To be honest. I feel blessed and really lucky all the time. Truly, every day, all day. I don't know. I think just moving to New York City, this will be my answer, because there's just such a great vibe. I don't know when this airs, but. But the Knicks just won, so if you guys are watching this, you already know.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

I'm still excited.

[Rachel]

You already know what kind of vibe it is. New York is obviously having, like, the most amazing summer ever, But I don't know. I think just living in New York, just being here, just coming here. I wanted to live here my whole life, since I was a kid. When I first came to see Broadway plays. I knew I was gonna be back since I was 8 years old. I used to have New York postcards and things all throughout my room. When I was a kid, I always wanted to live in New York. There's just certain cities you're drawn to. So I've now been here, like, almost 15 years, and I. I genuinely still wake up when I'm coming over the bridge every morning. When I'm walking through, I mean, it still feels like a movie to me. I'm not tired of it. I feel so lucky to be here. I love it. It's like, energy. Dreams come true. My dreams have come true. The city has given me so much. Like, I feel lucky walking around New York City all the time. I. It's. It still gives me chills. Like, I love this place so much. So I know it's changed a lot for any of you OG New Yorkers, please save it. But, no, I do respect the city so much. Transplants and native New Yorkers, like, I just think it's the greatest city in the world. I think it's amazing. So I feel very lucky being here, period.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

That's a beautiful mic drop. And I feel the same way.

[Rachel]

Yeah, I love it.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

That's a very respectful transplant.

[Rachel]

Yeah, same. Very respectful transplant. And people sometimes are like, would you ever move? And I'm like, I just.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Maybe.

[Rachel]

But I just. So far, I just don't. I still like it. A lot of people are like, oh, I'm leaving. It's been like, 10 years. I'm like, nope, no, we're still going. I love it here.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Still going strong. Yeah. Rachel, thank you so much for being here.

[Rachel]

Thank you for having me.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Thank you for sharing with us. How you create your own luck, of course.

[Rachel]

Thank you. Everyone else can create their own luck too.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Period.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

You. You heard her. Everybody else can create.

[Rachel]

Everybody else can create their own luck. Manifesting make it happen. Make it happen.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Thank you so much for tapping into this week's episode of she's so Lucky. If you haven't subscribed already, what are you waiting for? We have new episodes every Tuesday. Subscribe on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a comment below and let me know your favorite part. Thanks for tuning in and I'll see you next week.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of she's so Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show. Notes for resources, links and discount codes. And if you are really feeling lucky, we would appreciate your rating and your review. It really helps us be able to improve the show, to get great guests, and to understand what you want to hear more of. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week.

[Host of She's So Lucky]

Please note that this episode may contain

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.