The Media Moves Fast—Here’s How to Keep Up with Nikki Ogunnaike of Marie Claire

Summary

Podcast Summary: She's So Lucky

Episode: The Media Moves Fast—Here’s How to Keep Up with Nikki Ogunnaike of Marie Claire
Host: Les Alfred
Guest: Nikki Ogunnaike, Editor-in-Chief of Marie Claire
Release Date: August 19, 2025

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Overview

This episode of She’s So Lucky features an in-depth conversation between host Les Alfred and Nikki Ogunnaike, the Editor-in-Chief of Marie Claire US. The discussion centers on Nikki’s journey through the rapidly evolving world of media, her approach to leadership, personal growth, style, and how women can create their own luck by embracing adaptability, intention, and self-definition. The episode also delves into the importance of critical thinking and media literacy in today’s digital landscape and explores Nikki's much-discussed "Ins and Outs" list for 2025.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nikki Ogunnaike’s Journey and Concept of Luck

• On Feeling Lucky: Nikki feels particularly lucky to be leading Marie Claire during a time when women—and especially women of color—are gaining more leadership opportunities.
  • “It dovetails with all the things that I care about, so fashion, style, but also money, politics, identity…” (02:31, Nikki)
• Opportunity and Preparation: Nikki emphasizes how the media landscape’s evolution (especially post-2020) opened doors that were once inaccessible to many.
  • "In 2020, there was that shift, and things sort of broke open. Like, the industry broke open, and it let a lot of us in.” (03:43)

2. Evolution of Media & Adapting to Change

• Digital Shift: Nikki’s willingness to pivot from print to digital media contributed to her professional rise.
  • “If I had not decided that pretty early on in my career… I’m not going to be a print editor anymore, I’m going to go work on websites exclusively… being flexible… has really served me.” (07:18)
• On Social Media: Emphasizes understanding platforms instead of feeling pressure to master every new format (e.g., TikTok).
  • “It's not for me… it was more about understanding it and saying, I don’t really want to do that. I want to double down on this because this feels like it's better for me.” (08:58)

3. On Passion, Trying, and Giving Yourself Permission

• Finding Your Medium: Both agree creators don't have to do "everything"—just the things they're passionate about and can be great at.
  • “Whatever you’re going to do, be good at it. Have some passion for it and then that will shine through.” (15:34, Nikki)
• Titles and Self-Definition: Encourages claiming your achievements and not waiting for external validation or traditional milestones.
  • “No one said to me ever, like. And I didn’t tell myself, like, I can’t be an editor in chief because I haven’t checked all of these boxes.” (17:44)
  • “People are often very quick to either shy away from giving themselves monikers or giving themselves titles. I’m a runner. I’m a writer. ...I really implore other people to not feel that way.” (16:54–17:44)

4. The Power of Running & Movement in Personal Growth

• Why Nikki Started Running: To accomplish something separate from work in a hustle-focused environment.
  • “I really wanted something that I wanted to achieve a goal before I turned 30 that had nothing to do with work. And for me, that was running a half marathon.” (19:08)
• Running as Metaphor for Work/Life: Endurance, patience, and self-belief learned from running translate directly to professional and personal challenges.
  • “One of the reasons why I hired you is because you run races. And so I knew that you had the stamina for this.” (20:49, Nikki quoting her boss)

5. The Myth of Effortlessness and Value of Trying

• Busting the Myth: Both Les and Nikki reject "effortlessness" as an aspirational quality.
  • “I love people who try. Try hard, try more. Trying is cool…” (23:48, Nikki)
• Effort vs. Appearances: Cultural pressure to “look effortless” often invisibilizes the work behind success.
  • “Effortlessness… is probably genetics, honestly. And that’s not fair to put yourself up against.” (24:17)
  • Referencing Beyoncé: “She is who she is because of how much she rehearses and practices and experiments and tries.” (25:50, Les)

6. Reframing Confidence and Imposter Syndrome

• Lena Waithe’s Perspective: Standout moment from Nikki’s podcast "Nice Talk":
  • “Oh, I don’t have imposter syndrome… I go into these rooms and I think about what is additive to me. I know that I should be in that room. I’m invited in that room for a reason.” (27:11, Nikki quoting Lena Waithe)
• Masculine Confidence: Observing men at GQ helped Nikki reclaim professional confidence without self-minimization.
  • “None of those men had imposter syndrome… There was just an air of confidence that permeated all of the GQ spaces.” (30:18)

7. Dissecting and Reclaiming Personal Style

• Style as a ‘Living, Breathing Thing’: Encourages individuality over trend-chasing or Internet “link culture.”
  • “Get off the Internet. Go people-watch. New York has some of the best people watching in the world.” (41:20, Nikki)
• Self-Expression Over Copy-Paste: Nikki prefers cultivating a wardrobe that reflects personal utility and joy, not rigid capsule lists or trends.
  • “Capsule wardrobes are supposed to make your life easier. I don’t think they should be prescriptive… The way I operate is more like, you know, something, a dress that makes you feel like a million bucks…” (54:49–56:12)
  • “Personal style will find you. You don’t have to find personal style. It’ll find you.” (56:32)

8. 2025 "Ins and Outs" — Nikki’s Life & Style Manifesto

• What’s In: Power lunches, skepticism, critical thinking, mini martinis, flexibility, water before coffee, changing your mind, spa time, group chats, minding your business, being basic (in a good way), embracing once-in-a-lifetime opportunities.
  • “All incredible. All I still wholeheartedly believe in. Especially taking it to the group chat. And critical thinking, please. Critical thinking girl summer, more of that.” (46:37)
• What’s Out: Pretending to like caviar, "quiet luxury" (the term), early morning scrolling, dupes/dupe culture, capsule wardrobe rigidity, beige tyranny, micro-trends, work breakfasts, obsessing over finding personal style, and oversharing online.
  • “Dupe culture… really just watered down personal style because it led to that copy and pasting… It’s bad for the environment.” (50:45)
  • "The tyranny of beige... that's just not fun. Like where's the personality?" (52:28)
  • “Let's cut [oversharing] out, guys... take it to the group chat.” (57:00)

9. Critical Thinking & Media Literacy

• On Media Literacy: Nikki stresses the need for double-checking sources, awareness of bias, and learning distinguishing fact from fiction (especially given social media and AI-generated content).
  • “It’s only going to continue to be more and more important…” (47:06)
  • “Really consider where this information is coming from… is this a biased source?” (47:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Being an Editor-in-Chief:
  • "I have the top position. Boom, period." (17:42, Nikki)
• On Confidence:
  • “I’m okay with making the room feel uncomfortable a little bit.” (32:45, Nikki quoting her boyfriend)
• On Early Morning Routines:
  • “Retrain your attention span. And, like, cut the early morning scrolling.” (54:18, Nikki)
• On the Value of Being Basic:
  • “Some people may say, like doing pilates and getting a matcha is, like, basic. I don’t know. That makes me really happy. So I’m going to do those things.” (57:58, Nikki)

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Timestamps for Noteworthy Segments

• Nikki describes her ‘lucky moment’ & Marie Claire’s mission: 02:31–04:42
• The evolution of media, embracing change: 07:18–09:40
• On choosing your platforms & not mastering every trend: 08:53–09:40
• Self-definition, owning your title: 16:54–18:07
• How running impacts her approach to challenges: 19:08–21:30
• Effortlessness and the virtue of trying: 23:48–25:11
• Beyoncé as the embodiment of effort and excellence: 25:50
• Lena Waithe on dismissing imposter syndrome: 27:11–29:11
• Confidence lessons from working at GQ: 30:18–31:48
• Practicing critical thinking & media literacy: 47:41–48:35
• 2025 Ins and Outs breakdown: 45:57–58:41

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Conclusion & Where to Find Nikki

Nikki Ogunnaike’s approach to media, life, and style is about intentionality, embracing adaptability, and refusing to let external definitions limit your possibilities or expression. Her advice for listeners: “Personal style will find you. You don’t have to find personal style.” (56:32). For more from Nikki:

• Podcast: “Nice Talk” (new episodes Thursdays)
• Instagram/Twitter: @nikkiogun
• Marie Claire: marieclaire.com

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This episode is a resource for anyone navigating creative or professional spaces—especially women—offering perspectives on confidence, adaptability, and setting your own terms for success and style.

Transcript

[Les]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.

[Hostess]

Welcome back to she's so Lucky.

[Co-host]

My name is Les.

[Hostess]

I'm your hostess with the mostest.

[Guest Commentator]

At least.

[Les]

Hopefully you think I have the mostest.

[Hostess]

If you're listening to this episode and.

[Les]

I appreciate you tuning in now, something.

[Co-host]

That you may not know about me is that I am a really big.

[Les]

Nerd when it comes to media.

[Co-host]

From a very young age, I was.

[Les]

Absolutely obsessed with writing magazines, newspapers, journalism. It was what I wanted to be.

[Co-host]

When I grew up. And although my career ended up taking.

[Les]

A slightly different path, it is something that I'm still incredibly passionate about.

[Co-host]

And I especially think right now when.

[Les]

We have media coming at us from so many different directions, it is incredibly important that we all have our wits about us when it comes to consuming good media and being able to decipher what's real from what's not. So today on the show, I'm really.

[Co-host]

Excited to be sitting down with the.

[Les]

Incredibly stylish and wildly insightful Nikki Ogunaki, editor in chief of Marie Claire us, host of the Marie Claire podcast, Nice Talk and all around media powerhouse. We get into her journey from intern to editor in chief, her take on the future of media, and we are even revisiting some of her ins and outs from the beginning of the year.

[Hostess]

To see if she still agrees.

[Les]

So get ready for some real talk, nice talk, and maybe a few hot takes.

[Hostess]

Plus some thoughts on how to be.

[Les]

Savvier more intentional consumers of both media and fashion. Nikki, welcome to the show.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Thank you for having me.

[Les]

I am super excited to have you.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I'm thrilled. I can't. I'm like so excited for this conversation for sure.

[Les]

There's so many things we were already having such a good conversation before we started rolling that I want to come back to. We were talking about media journalism, giving ourselves different titles and feeling like we need to earn things versus kind of embracing the things we're already doing. But I want to step back a little bit so that our audience can get to know you better. And so the first question that I've been asking everybody that I've loved, particularly since the rebrand of the show, tis she's so lucky, is to share with us a moment where you felt really lucky. And this could be a moment where you've created your own luck or maybe a moment where something felt serendipitous and you were really grateful for it.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

What a great question. I've felt lucky many times throughout my career, I would say, but I do feel particularly lucky to be Leading Marie Claire at this time. Marie Claire is a brand that caters to women who care about power and purpose and style. And I think that run being a black woman and running the magazine and the brand during this time still specifically feels very lucky to me. It dovetails with all the things that I care about, so fashion, style, but also money, politics, identity, all of those things. And so, yeah, I've felt very lucky over the last two years.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, I absolutely love that.

[Les]

I think for so many of us millennials who grew up on things like, you know, the Devil Wears Prada or seeing, like, Lauren Conrad work at Teen Vogue in the hills, should have gone to Paris to this day. She should have. 20 years later, she should have gone to par. But seeing you in this role, it is in a lot of ways kind of like this, this millennial dream come true. I think for so many of us millennial women, at some point, we dreamed of, you know, being the head of a major magazine in that way. Did you also share that dream at that time, or was it a path that unfolded?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I didn't. I have to be honest with you. I did not. It's not that I didn't think that this would be available to me, but I just know of so many women who kind who came before me in this industry who. Who did not get this opportunity. And so it really does feel like in 2020, there was that shift, and things sort of broke open. Like, the industry broke open, and it let a lot of us in. It let a lot of people who had been historically excluded from these leadership positions in. And so it's a bit of that luck, of course, but it's a bit of that opportunity and preparation all sort of dovetailing together right now. And so, yeah, I didn't really think it was going to be a job that I wanted to do or something that was available to me. I particularly remember when I was an assistant at InStyle, being like, I don't want to be an editor in chief. That's too much work, too hard. But, you know, you grow in your career, and at some point, you're just sort of like, I could do that, I could do that.

[Les]

Was there a moment when that flipped for you, or was it more gradual?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

It was more gradual. Gradual. But I would say, you know, I had the pleasure of working with Samira Nasser, who is the editor in chief now at Harper's Bazaar, and I worked with an incredible team there. And I would say there I was like, okay, I can wrap my head around doing this job, and Then I also think when Nina Garcia became editor in chief of Elle, I was there. And it was one of those moments where I was like, okay, really incredible. Diverse fashion people are also getting to helm these publications. And so maybe there is space for me after all.

[Guest Commentator]

Mm.

[Les]

Were there any moments you had as you were leading up to taking this role at Marie Claire, which. Which you've has said is your lucky moment, when you were like, ah, this luck is working. Like, was there a moment where you were like, yes, it's me.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Oh, it's me. That's what it was.

[Les]

Very, very wicked.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I know if I find gravity, I'd do it. I don't think that there was a particular moment. I think I've just sort of, for the most part, kept my head down, done the work. I had the YouTube series that I did for a little bit. I wrote a bunch of stories when I was at Elle, I went for. When I sort of became the digital director, Harper's Bazaar, I was a bit more of a, like, behind the scenes position to an extent. And so I think all of those tiny moments especially. And then also when I worked at GQ for a year and a half, I like to say I took a sabbatical and did menswear for a little bit. That all felt like different strokes of luck that came together to be able to really bolster me and like and prepare me for this position Now.

[Les]

I love that I want to talk more about media as a whole. We were chatting a little bit more about that before we started rolling because for the last several years, media has felt like it's been in such an odd space. In a lot of ways. It has grown in the sense that almost everybody is a participant in terms of the stories that are told, versus, I think in the past it was. There was more of a clear delineation between who the storyteller was and who the audience is. And now kind of everybody's a storyteller and everybody is in the audience kind of simultaneously. Traditional media has had a lot of struggles over the last gosh, decade plus, social media has exploded. So as somebody who has been working in media through all of this, how has that felt for you as the space continues to evolve and change?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

It's felt great for me, I have to be honest. Like, there were a lot of opportunities that I think would not have been afforded to me had I not worked in digital media. Had I not decided that pretty early on in my career. You know what? I'm not going to be a print editor anymore. I'M going to go work on websites exclusively. That was something new. That was something new for me that websites in their current iteration barely existed when I graduated from college. So, like, I didn't even know that was really going to be an opportunity for me. And so being able to, you know, be a little flexible, be a little nimble, take that opportunity as it was presented to me and sort of run with it has really served me in my career. Social media has continued to serve me in my career. I think it helps and it's. It's a part of the reason I was probably hired for this position at Marie Claire.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And I just think that, like, it's in everyone's best interest to embrace these changes. Like you have to swim with the tide, like you can't swim against it.

[Les]

I feel that way very often when I talk to other creators who may be frustrated if there's a new platform that emerges or if there's an, you know, algorithm change or if there is a new format that takes off even, I mean, kind of dating myself a little bit for how long I've been creating content. I've thought about all the different iterations of Instagram and about how back in the day it used to be photos only and then they introduced 15 second videos and then like a minute videos and then stories and then reels and all of these different things. And I. Every time there's been a change, I think there has been a collective, like something, something else to master.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And I think, do you have to master it? That's my thing.

[Co-host]

Like, exactly.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I'm not on TikTok. I have a TikTok. I've posted some videos to TikTok, but I very quickly was like, I don't want to do this. This, like, this feels like way too much work like this. You know, I look at the creators who are on T tok and it's just like the way my like, you know, day job or whatever is set up. I don't have time to be posting to TikTok all the time. And so it's not for me, it wasn't about, like mastering it, it was more about understanding it and saying, I don't really want to do that. I want to double down on this because this feels like it's better for me. So, like, I don't want to blow up my TikTok, but I really want to get great at podcasting and making nice talk a thing because that's another outlet for me that feels great and like, it aligns with what I actually want to do.

[Co-host]

Oh, completely.

[Les]

And I think something really important about what you just said is also finding the right medium for the story, because not every story fits every medium.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And that's okay.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And that's okay, right? Like, nobody is looking at. Like, I think it's actually particularly interesting when you look at somebody like Alex Earl. It's very funny. I keep bringing her up for some reason in every talk that I go to that I have. But Alex had a podcast and now she doesn't have a podcast anymore. And I think that that could be fine. Like, I think she's quite good at TikTok or she's quite good at social media and maybe she stays there. And that's okay.

[Les]

Absolutely.

[Hostess]

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[Les]

I do remember back in the days of earlier content creation, everybody would kind of have a lane. It was like you were a YouTuber or a blogger or a, you know, or a podcaster or whatever. It was like you had your, your main thing and that was the lane. And then over time everybody kind of started doing everything or felt this pressure to be everywhere of if you blow up on TikTok, of course you need a podcast and of course you need a YouTube channel. But not necessarily. You don't really have to do any of it.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

No, you don't have to do any of it. I just think that whatever you're going to do, like be good at it. Right. Because everyone can see when you're, if you like a product line that it's like half assed or if anyone, everyone can see if you have a podcast and you're not that great at it, that it's like torture for you to do it. Right. So whatever medium or wherever you want to place yourself, just be good at it. Like have some passion for it and then that will shine through.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

How would that also apply to, to new things? Right. Maybe if somebody's trying something new and they're trying to get good at it. What has your experience been in becoming better at something?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Oh, that's so funny. I always, anyone I tell that I am a runner, that I've run, you know, almost 10 half marathons at this point. Everyone's like, well, I really want to be a runner. And I'm like, running's not for everyone. Like it takes a certain kind of like constitution to want to be a runner. To be a runner. And I think that oftentimes people think that they have to do the thing again. It sort of goes back to what we were saying. Like they think they have to do the thing. If you don't like running, find something else that sort of fills your cup in, in a similar way. Find something that you can be passionate about in a similar way. But just because I'm a runner doesn't mean that you have to be a runner, you know?

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, exactly.

[Les]

And expanding those definitions of what that means.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Sure, of course. Because like I call myself a runner. I run, you know, a 10, 30 minute mile. For some people that's really fast, for some people that's really slow. That doesn't make me not a runner. Like, I think that people are often very quick to either shy away from giving themselves monikers or giving themselves titles. I'm a runner. I'm a writer. Because they feel like they haven't done it either through the traditional route or because they haven't gone through these sort of, like, channels that deem you as such. But, like, I'm the editor in chief of Marie Claire, and I didn't study journalism. I studied sociology and media studies. I don't have my master's in journalism. I didn't go to Columbia. I didn't go to nyu. But, like, I have the top position.

[Co-host]

Boom, period.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And that's just sort of how it is. Right. Like, I. No one said to me ever, like. And I didn't tell myself, like, I can't be an editor in chief because I haven't checked all of these boxes. And I. I really implore other people to not feel that way. I. I also think that, like, living in New York, like, everyone's a creative director. Everyone is an editor in chief. Like, people here give themselves those monikers all the time, and they're just fine.

[Guest Commentator]

That's true.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Who's stopping them?

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

You know, why do you think we have a hard time giving ourselves those monikers or embracing some of the things that we do?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

That's an interesting question. Why do we have trouble doing that? I don't know. I think people are afraid of failure, and so they're probably like, oh, I didn't. I didn't live up to what that means. Maybe I'd ask you that question as well. I don't know. Like, I'm curious what you think.

[Les]

I think a lot of it has to do with validation, like, from others. Yeah. Sometimes we may have an inkling that we want to be this thing. I want to be a runner. I want to be a. You know, whatever it is. And we feel more validated if other people affirm that versus if.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And, like, let you in and say, okay, join the club. Like, you can be a part of this now.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah. That feels like human nature, huh?

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, exactly.

[Les]

So we've talked a little bit about your running journey, but I actually love to go to the beginning of what brought you to running and how running has impacted you.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah. So I've been a runner for about 10 years now. I really wanted to. When I started running, I really wanted to achieve a goal that had nothing to do with work. Like, New York is such a hustle culture. Everyone here is so hardworking. Your Identity can often be wrapped up in your work. And so I really wanted something that I wanted to achieve a goal before I turned 30 that had nothing to do with work. And for me, that was running a half marathon. And I find that I consistently return to running. I consistently return to racing, even though it's, like, not fast racing for some or. I don't know. I don't even know why I caveated that. I just, you know, like, that's the thing that people do like you immediately. I'm not a fast runner, but it's like, no, you've run almost ten half marathons. Like, be quiet.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Anyway, so I started running. Yeah. Because I just wanted something that didn't have to do with work. And achieving this goal before I turned 30 was also a weird, random sort of thing that I wanted to do. You know, when you're about to turn 30, you're like, I gotta do something that feels special. And so that was running for me, and I returned to it consistently, I think, because of the lessons that I learned throughout that process and throughout training for races that I can implement in life and career and, you know, relationships across the board.

[Les]

I love that you said that last piece, because I just feel like that is one of the biggest benefits of movement, regardless of whatever version people love to do, whether it's dancing, running, whatever. Is it outside of the obvious physical benefits, what it does for your mind, and how it helps you be able to stand up to challenges and believe in yourself and try new things? It's like moving your body teaches you all of those things.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah. I was having a rough time at work recently, and I was talking to my boss about it, and she was like, you know what? One of the reasons why I hired you is because you run races. And so I knew that you had the stamina for this. And I was like, huh? Okay. All right, great. Like, okay, I can get back. It's just like, this is just like a stretch of a long marathon where you're just like, ugh, these next three miles are gonna suck. But, like. Like, I'm close to the finish line, or I'm close to, like, my next gel. And, like, that's gonna, you know, perk me up again and get me ready to. To tackle this next stretch. And. Yeah, so running has always. And movement in general, I think, has always really served me in that way.

[Les]

That is, like, the best promo for running. If anybody's on the fence about it, I love it.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I love it. I do. And it's like, I don't run all the time. And I don't run, you know, 10 miles at a time or whatever. It's usually like a couple miles, but it's just enough time. 30 minutes, 45 minutes. Just enough time to get outside, clear my head, and just sort of like.

[Les]

Return to self, which is so, so important. Yeah. I also think there's something to being in New York and running. There's just such a running culture here that I think it's because we live in such a densely populated place that has so much stimuli, like people looking to build community is a big part of it, but also return to self when we're surrounded by so much stimulation.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah.

[Les]

Why people run so much here?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I think so. And I think that to your point, it really has become like, I've seen actually the ebbs and flows of, like, the running community in New York. I think that running is definitely having a moment again. A couple years ago, it wasn't. It was definitely like, you know, workout classes, rumble or Orange Theory or Peloton or whatever. But we are returning back to running as sport, running as a, you know, mental health tool, those sorts of things. And that's. That's really exciting for me to see, for sure.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

And it's such a great community building tool. I think post Pandemic has been a lot of. A lot of it too, where it's like people just want to gather and.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Be around other people. Go outside, leave your house, touch grass. Touch grass. Like, I feel like such an old curmudgeon when I talk about this, but I'm really like, guys, leave your house, get off your phone. It's. It's good for you, I promise.

[Les]

I'm constantly having to remind myself of that too.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

It's so easy to get stuck.

[Les]

It is, it is. Especially just in the day today when it can feel like you're in such a grind and you're just trying to get to the next day. Anything that can interrupt that pattern is so important.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Les]

So earlier you mentioned your podcast, and I'm very excited to talk about it because I love podcasting. I also think that you have a great podcast where you're interviewing amazing women having phenomenal conversations. And something that I really appreciate about what you're doing with your podcast is kind of busting the myth of effortlessness. Can we talk more about that?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I love trying. I love people who try. Try hard, try more. Trying is cool. Like effortlessness, I think really had such a moment. Right. Everyone wanted to be. You wanted model, off duty style. You Wanted, like, effortless waves or effortless curls. No makeup. Makeup. But it feels like such a scam sometimes where, like, what's effortless for that person is probably genetics, honestly. And that's not fair to put yourself up against, like, you. You're setting yourself up for failure in that way. And so I think that when I think about the podcast and when I think about the conversations that we're having, everyone that I've had on the podcast, the people I want to continue to have on the podcast, on the podcast, they all try and they believe in that, and they work hard. Their work ethic is incredible. They obviously take breaks and believe in, you know, like, taking time off and that sort of thing. But, like, trying is. Is okay and they want to be good at what they're doing.

[Les]

Absolutely. When I think about this idea of things being effortless or people kind of being judgy, of when others are seen trying, I almost feel like it's, like propaganda. It just feels like this judgmental thing where if something doesn't come to you naturally and immediately that you should be shamed for it in some ways.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah, for sure. I also think that, you know, it's in my. It has been in the past in my nature to shy away from things that I'm, like, not immediately good at. I don't know if that's because I'm a Nigerian American or if I'm a Capricorn, you know, Like, I don't know.

[Les]

Where it's contributing factors.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Probably both, probably. I don't know if that's where it's coming from, but is sort of the thing where, when I think about running again, not to bring it back, but it's a. It's a thing that you have to try out, and the more you do it, the better you. The better, quote, unquote, or the easier it is for you. And so putting an effort. I've found that putting an effort into things is good. Like, is useful, you know?

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Les]

I had posted this video on TikTok, I think, maybe about a week ago, where I was, was talking about one of the many reasons why I love Beyonce, because I talk about Beyonce all the time, but she is trying personified. I mean, her work ethic. And not to say that everybody needs to have a work ethic like Beyonce's, because sometimes she can be a little extreme with her work ethic, but she is who she is because of how much she rehearses and practices and experiments and tries. And I appreciate how forthcoming she has always been about that, like, she, you know, if you ever watch her documentaries or her behind the scenes things, she's never acting like those performances are effortless.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

No. And I think that, you know, I interviewed Ms. Tina Knowles last year. I interviewed her and we were talking about Sacred, the hair care line. And she said that, you know, Beyonce made them go back and, like, reformulate things and was like, I think we can do this better, and was pushing her mom to do better, you know, And I think that that just speaks to her work ethic. Of course, I also think it speaks to sort of her unwillingness to not settle. And I appreciate that.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, exactly.

[Les]

On Nice Talk, has there been a moment you've had so far with the show or a conversation that has changed your perspective in some way?

[Guest Commentator]

And what Was that?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Oh, 100%. When I interviewed Lena Waithe, who's incredible, she. I. I was talking to her about imposter syndrome, and I had just like, offhandedly said something about, you know, people feel like imposter syndrome, whatever, they should have it. And she was like, oh, I don't have imposter syndrome. I was like, what? And she was like, no, I don't have it. I. And I was like, no, you have to tell me more about that, though. Like, why don't you have imposter syndrome? And she was like, you know, I go into these rooms and I think about what is additive to me. I know that I should be in that room. I'm invited in that room for a reason. I'm paraphrasing here. But essentially she was like, I'm in this room for a reason. What is this room giving to me? And that really switched the way I think about myself when I enter into a room and I feel like, oh, how did I get here? Or maybe I shouldn't have been here. I was invited, right? I was invited to this table. And so if I am invited, that's when imposter syndrome sort of needs to go out the window. Like, if you've prepped, you're prepared, you have had that, like, little dash of luck that got you to this position. Like, why do you have imposter syndrome? Of course you should be there. It's that simple. I know. And in talking to her, I was like, oh, okay. It also gave me the permission, and I hope it gave the listeners the permission to not feel like they had to have it, because I do think that that is something that a lot of women struggle with, is if you don't have imposter syndrome, then you're Arrogant. And that's not fair. That is another way that we're really set up for failure. If you don't have imposter syndrome, that just means that you're confident in your position and in your abilities. And that's a good thing.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Les]

That you're confident that you can. You can see the spaces that you're in clearly.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Right. And what you can add to those spaces.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Les]

And even going back to what Lena said, that what can the room. What can I get from the room? Is that what she said or what.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Can I do for me, what can. What can the room. Like, how can this room be additive to my experience, essentially?

[Les]

That just altered my brain chemistry when you were describing it.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah, yeah, it totally does like it. And it was. And she said it so simply. I like, really encourage everyone to go look at. Listen to this episode, because she said it so simply and offhandedly. But that was a real light bulb moment for me. I was like, oh, whoa. Like, yeah, brain chemistry altered for sure.

[Les]

Even in feeling better, maybe asking questions and being okay not knowing all of the answers.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Right.

[Les]

And being willing to learn, that's okay.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And that's okay. It's okay to ask questions. It's okay to show up and be like, I don't know, but I'm willing to figure it out, and maybe you could help me and we can do. We can talk about this. We can discuss this. Like, all of that stuff, I think, just feels. You know, it just sort of, like, strips down that barrier of, like, I have to show up perfectly. I have to show up without flaws.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Les]

I really appreciate that sentiment. Imposter syndrome is one of those terms that over the past few years, I've kind of wrestled with as well, in the sense that not saying I've never experienced it, but that, like, who's. Who's to say that anyone is an imposter in any space that we're in?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Isn't that interesting as well? Like, it just feels like a conversation. I guess that happens a lot in women's media and in women's spaces. But when I worked at gq, like, none of those men had imposter syndrome. All of them were very sure that they should be in that room and that they were good at their jobs and they worked at gq, and GQ is amazing. And I was like, yes, I also work at gq, and GQ is amazing. And why don't I have that air about me? There was just an air of confidence that sort of permeated all of the GQ spaces, which I really, really appreciated having never worked with that many men in my life. Really?

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Before that or after that?

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah. That's funny.

[Les]

But I think there's also so much to when we are even working with people or spending time around people who are different than us being like, what can I observe? What can I learn?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Oh, yeah. Working at GQ was such a crash course in confidence for me and in, like, really being at the top of your game and knowing it and having that confidence. Like being able to watch people like Will Welch or Mobile Aji Dawadu, who's the fashion director at the time, Marc Anthony Green, who worked very closely with Will, is now an incredible director. He just had his first movie come out with a 24. Being able to work with those guys for even just a year year and some change was really transformative for me.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, definitely.

[Les]

Are there any other takeaways that you still carry with you from that time?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

It was mostly just like, the, The. The confidence and knowing that you are good at your job and you have, like, swag or, you know, you, like, you have it. You have that X factor. And, like, there's a reason why they just really took pride in their work and they took pride in the fact that they worked at gq. Like, that meant something to them. And I really appreciated that.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, definitely.

[Les]

And also not having to minimize it or downplay when you have that confidence.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah.

[Les]

Something that I've been wrapping my head around a lot and I'm probably gonna do an episode around this later is really beginning to dismantle self deprecation.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yes.

[Les]

And why we use it so much.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

As a crutch, who you use it for.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

And really unpacking that.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Who is that serving?

[Les]

Who is it serving? Who is it benefiting? It's not. It's not benefiting the person who's doing it.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

No. I mean, I have. I've had many conversations with my boyfriend over the last couple of weeks just in his. He's sort of like, you know what? I don't want to make people feel comfortable. I'm okay with making the room feel uncomfortable a little bit. If I don't like what people are saying about certain groups or if I don't agree with certain political affiliations, like, I'm not going to do it just to make people comfortable. Why would I do that? Like, what they think is not okay. And so why am I bending over backwards to change myself just because I want to make that person comfortable?

[Guest Commentator]

I was like, oh, this is a.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Straight man telling me this. I need to adopt some of this. You know, it's like, it really is sometimes that like straight guy energy. When you have that around you, you start sort of like reassessing the way that you as a woman behave in, in these spaces.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

And how much energy we spend doing those things that we better spend elsewhere.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

It's exhausting. Yeah.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, it is. Definitely.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

It's.

[Co-host]

So if you're familiar with this show, you know that we're all about tuning into ourselves mentally, emotionally, energetically. But sometimes it can be really hard to know what's going on with us physically. There is so much wellness content and information and misinformation out there that it can be really easy to be led astray. And that is why it is so important when you're taking any wellness advice to actually know what's going on with your body. Recently I felt the same. Where I thought, you know, I am probably due for some blood work. I'm due to just really get my levels checked and to understand what, what's going on. That is why I recently joined Function Health. I chose Function because it's the only health platform that gives you access to the data that most people never see and the insights to actually take action. Inside function, you can test for over 160 biomarkers from heart health to testing your hormone levels to understanding your toxin level. You can also test for inflammation and for stress so that you can really give your body what it needs through Function. You can also access things like MRI scans, CT scans, all tracked in one secure place. Over time, it's an enhanced view of what's happening in your body. That's why top health leaders like Dr. Andrew Huberman, Dr. Mark Hyman and Dr. Jeremy London are all behind Function Health.

[Les]

What really drew me to function was.

[Co-host]

The importance of really understanding what was happening inside of my body, not just just guessing. I really feel informed and empowered to make the best choices for me, but I need data to be able to do that. So I'm in the early stage right now where I've signed up and I booked my first lab visit and I'm excited to learn what's going on in my body. The sign up process was super straightforward. It was really easy to find a lab in my area because they have over 2, 000 locations. So you're not stuck trying to find something across town Now. I recently turned a little older and so I've been thinking a lot about my energy levels lately and I really want to make sure that as I age, as I move into my later 30s, I'm really giving my body what it needs to thrive and feel energized for all of the things I want to do. But that's why it's really important to understand the specifics of what's going on in our bodies. Because if we're feeling tired or if we're feeling run down, that can be so many different things. It's really important to be able to pinpoint exactly what's happening. Is there a vitamin deficiency? Do we have a hormone imbalance? What hormones are out of balance? That's the important data that we really need. And that is what I'm looking forward to getting insight into with Function Health. I also love that Function doesn't push supplements or protocols on you. It's truly data and insights that you can use to make the most informed.

[Les]

Decisions for your health.

[Co-host]

So you're not being sold on anything and that really gives me a peace of mind. It's also super affordable compared to how much that testing would cost cost if done individually, a function membership is $499 a year, which comes out to about $1.37 a day. But if you were to get all of the tests that Function offers you individually, it would cost over $10,000. Another thing that really stood out to me is that Function tracks your test results over time. So you're able to have a record of your health and of the progression of your health. So even if you're feeling okay now, it gives you a baseline and you're able to track patterns and changes over time. This is especially important if you're someone who is proactive about their health. And a Function membership isn't just for one type of person. It's for all ages, genders and health journeys. So whether you're training for something, recovering from something, or you just want to feel your best long term, it gives you a clear science backed starting point. You can learn more and join by visiting my link in the show Notes or Description. The first 1000 people get a 100 credit towards towards their membership. You can visit functionhealth.comlucky or you can use the code LUCKY100 to sign up for Function Health. If you've been curious about taking care of your health in a way that feels more empowering and personalized, I really think this would be a great place to start again. You can go to functionhealth.com Lucky or you can use the code Lucky100 to get a 100 credit towards your Function Health Membership.

[Les]

So I also would love to talk to you a bit about style. Yeah, we touched on this a little bit with the effortless conversation. Because I think that effortless is a word that is often associated with style a lot. I also think over the past, I don't know, maybe couple years, we've seen kind of a. A swing towards people being a little bit more minimalistic. But I think we'll probably. Pendulums go back and forth. I'm sure we'll see a pendulum kind of swing the other way. But can we talk more about effortlessness and how it relates to style and pick that apart a little bit?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I. New York is a very interesting place, I would say, to discover your style, because there are so many different, like, tribes of people who live here. Like, you can, you know, hang out downtown, and you can see, like, very specifically. Oh, that person, as we know, is like, a West Village girl. They like West Village girls. New York. New York magazine did it well. Like, they all dress this way. East Village girls or Lower east side girls dress this way. Upper east side, you know, based on neighborhood, I always say. And I think that, like, finding your style in New York is a little bit like moving into a house like that. Added that sort of advice that people give where it's like, live in the house for a little bit. Don't buy all your furniture at once. I think that that is a way that people should approach their style wherever they are. So live in that place. Consider what your actual life is going to be like in that place. So if you live far away from the train, as I did when I first moved to New York, what's the shoe that you're wearing when you're walking to and from the train? Like, what is the bag that you're carrying? Is that gonna fit a change of shoes if you have to change into heels when you're going to work later? All of those things, especially living in New York, it's like such a. Like, your wardrobe has to be so practical. And I don't think that effortlessness necessarily dovetails with practicality. Like, sometimes you do have to, like, put some thought and energy into figuring it out so that the rest of your life doesn't feel so, like, complicated and fraught.

[Les]

Oh, absolutely. I feel like my. The way that I think about clothes and style has shifted so much since I've moved to New York very much for that point. Yes. New York is a very fashionable city, so it's made me be a lot more conscious of that. Compared to other cities that I've lived in, like LA and Seattle, where it's not, I mean, especially Seattle, where maybe not as at the forefront of people's minds, but, but just the sheer practicality of you're probably going to leave the house and not be back until nighttime. So do you have everything that you need?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Right? Your bag is your car.

[Guest Commentator]

It is.

[Les]

Are you ready to walk, you know, however far? And you're kind of bouncing from event to event. So do you have that utility of do you look like you could be at any or do you want to.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Be able to bounce from event to event? Do you want to be able to like see where the night takes you? If that's the case, then I don't know that a manolo and a 105 millimeter is going to help you. Right. Like, like you may need like a lower heel or a cute sneaker to let the city take you wherever it wants to.

[Les]

Yeah, exactly. And I think part of that is also why I struggle a little bit with this idea of constantly needing inspiration from the Internet about how to dress.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And how to style. Get off the Internet.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I think that, like, listen, I love Alison Bornstein. I think her three word method is, is invaluable and I think, I think it's invaluable because she is asking you to really look at your closet and really look at yourself and say, and induce a bit of the like, work that we talk about, right. Where it's sort of like, what's my life going to be like? What do I want? You know, where is this day going to take me? What is my general schedule look like when I'm not doing that? What do I want some like flare to look like? Right. I think what's happening right now when we look at social media is it's just some completely like flattened things to an extent. So we used to have like Scandi girl style, Scandinavian girl style or French girl style, American girl style. And now it's all just one like weird amalgamation. And that takes out the fun, that takes out the personality. And so I always say like, you know, get off again, touch grass, get off the Internet. Go people, watch. New York has some of the best people watching in the world. Find inspiration on the street. Like I, it's interesting. So this, my past newsletter that I wrote a week ago was about how to wear all black without being, without looking boring because I saw so many women looking so fab, but they were wearing head to toe black. I was like, okay, that's great. I Wouldn't have come up with that had I been in TikTok and people were talking about like frazzled old lady core. Right. Like, that's not. Yeah. That's not what I think people really need right now. Like they need practical dressing advice. And I found that from just like looking up and seeing all the stylish women around me.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

Like letting style be this living, breathing thing that moves with you.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah.

[Les]

As opposed to.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And changes.

[Les]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And that's okay.

[Les]

Little kind of box that you're trying to fill or check.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

I also feel that so much with like link culture and I even say this as somebody who generates like affiliate links and constantly linking things and even as somebody who, you know, I use affiliate links. I buy from people's links, people buy from mine. And I so get it. But just this thought that everything that we have to wear has to be perfectly linkable and ready for someone to like copy paste.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

It is rare that anyone will see me in an outfit that they had in a head to toe outfit that they could buy in season. Like I have clothes for years and years and years and years. I buy a lot on the realreal, so that stuff's just not available anymore. It's one of one. Right. But because I've lived in New York and I've thought about my style and I've. I have again this lived experience here, then I don't need to necessarily copy and paste from somebody or I don't need an exact link. Like sometimes I am like, no, I actually really want that necklace. But more so it's like I want a necklace that gives me that kind of vibe. So could you tell me, you know, a couple brands who offer that and then I can get in there and figure it out myself.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

But I think that comes with time, honestly, for sure.

[Les]

Something that I've also started asking myself is if I see something that I really like that someone is wearing, whether it's a piece or an outfit, I'll challenge myself to be like, what is it about that that you like? Is it the cut? Is it the color, Is it the fabric? And then how can you either kind of do your own version of that with either something you already have ideally, or make it your own in some way as opposed to needing to copy paste exactly what someone else is doing?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I think that's really smart because a lot of the things that I see on people, like they don't necessarily have my body type, they don't necessarily have my skin coloring. And so it is that sort of Do I like the aura that this girl is giving off? Do I like the vibe that she's giving off? Or do I want those exact genes jeans or those exact shorts? And if those shorts don't look on me the way they look on her, am I going to have a meltdown? You know, am I going to like, like have a proper meltdown or am I just sort of looking for something that sort of like approximates what she's going for? And then how can I, you know, put my own sort of like sasson on it? Like, how can I figure this out for myself? I. I think that's the best way to do style.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

It's what adds kind of your special sauce.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And yeah.

[Les]

Also has that bit of self expression that I think in. I'm nervous that, you know, a lot of people are veering away from that and I think that that's an important part of the equation.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah, for sure. I completely agree.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

Okay, so before we wrap up, one more thing that I also really want to ask you about is your 2025 ins and outs, which I remember from the top of the year. Acclaimed, highly anticipated and outs. We're about halfway through the year. I have them pulled up. Let me pull them back up.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

I know one I haven't done well and it like, makes me so sad.

[Les]

Okay, well, let's get into it.

[Co-host]

Wait, bring it back up.

[Les]

Now. The spa. Let's talk about the spa.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Spa is in. I just haven't been able to go to the spa as much as I would like. But I need to get into it more because it really does help.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

So you're going to prioritize that in H2?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

Okay. So for those of y'.

[Guest Commentator]

All.

[Les]

And I'll make sure this is linked in the show notes as well. Nikki's 2025 ins and outs. So ins, we have power lunches. Skepticism, Critical thinking. Mini teenies. Flexibility. Water before coffee. Changing your mind. Mobility spa. As we just discussed. Taking it to the group chat. Minding your business. Being basic. Good way. Once in a lifetime opportunities.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

All incredible. All I still wholeheartedly believe in. I abide by them. Especially taking it to the group chat. And critical thinking, please. Critical thinking girl. Summer, more of that.

[Les]

Yes, absolutely. Related to what we were talking about earlier with media, I also think that media literacy is a really important part of critical thinking. And it's something that I'm a little nervous. I'm just nervous, you know, it's a skill that we're losing.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

We gotta open up the Schools, kids are being left behind. Yeah. Like, media literacy is real. And I'm. I am afraid that, like, people are not being taught it. And it's really tough because there is so much media to circle back to what you were saying. Everyone is calling themselves a journalist or everyone is calling themselves, you know, an authority on something. And there is just so much floating around that discerning, like learning how to discern what is fact versus fiction, what is AI versus, like, a properly vetted source is really important. Is only going to continue to be more and more important.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Les]

How do you recommend people strengthen those media literacy skills if it's something they haven't thought about?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Oh, that's so interesting. I mean, I think that again, it's sort of double checking sources, like not taking everything as fact that comes through social media or TikTok really cons. Or TikTok or Instagram, really considering where this information is coming from. From when I talk about sources, I mean, is this a biased source? Is this somebody who has skin in this game and it would be in their best interest if they told a story like this? I think it comes to sort of looking back on past stories, looking back on past things that have been either either this person or this organization has said. And how does that sort of like, you know, align with what they're saying now? And really looking at a bunch of different sources.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, yeah.

[Les]

So important. So important.

[Guest Commentator]

And.

[Les]

And then we have the outs. Some of these really made me laugh, including this first one pretending to like caviar.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Gross. I freed myself. I freed myself from that this year. And I feel just so, like, I love it because the fashion industry, you know, the fashion industry loves caviar. And it's always like, oh, the caviar on the potato or the chips and caviar and creme fraiche and just being like, no, I don't like that. That feels very like I took my power back.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

There's also a lot of places, I mean, caviar, I think it's okay. I don't dislike it, but I don't love it. There's also some places where I'm like, why are we putting caviar here? Do I need a caviar tater tot?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Do I need a caviar in my martini? I don't think so. I don't think so. And I. Yeah, and there is a bit of that sort of like just saying, like, I don't like that. Right. Like, outwardly being like, I don't like that, and people being like what? And I'm just like, like I don't. And so I'm not gonna have it. And that's fine.

[Guest Commentator]

Yep, exactly.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

It's okay.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

Quiet luxury.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

The phrase let's get loud. Right? Like, it just feels like something that people have been saying and they don't really know why they're saying. It feels slightly racial as well. And I can't really pin my finger on why it feels that way. But it feels very coded and I'm just like kind of over it. And I. And I dress in like a fairly minimalistic way. I don't, I generally don't wear a ton of prints. There was just something about quiet luxury that just started to feel like kind of nefarious to me. Like the term. I love Loro Piana, I love Brunello Cucinelli. That is technically quiet luxury. But like the term felt. I don't know, it started to feel iffy to me.

[Les]

I agree. It does feel. Feel very coded. It feels very anti. Things that I don't think need a counterculture. It's just, it's like a difference of preference.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Exactly.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

Work breakfast.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

It's too early. I live in Brooklyn. It's too early. Like getting into Manhattan by like 8:30. Yikes. I need to work out in the morning. Let's do a lunch.

[Les]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. Dupes and dupe culture.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Out forever. Out forever. I think that dupes. Dupe culture, it really just a watered down personal style because it led to that copy and pasting. It also just sort of led. It's bad. It's like really bad for the environment. And like, I don't think that jelly sandal should be $10. I don't think those jeans should be $10. And I don't know if where you're buying them from is the best place for the environment or for the people who work there. So the ease with which people can get dupes, like, scares me about. It's. It scares me. I think it's like frankly not. Not good.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

I felt like the Walmart Birkin was a really spooky time. I also say this as somebody who's not particularly interested in. In Birkins, but like that whole, that wave of the Internet for that two week span.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Well, it just begs the question, sort of like why, why do you want a Birkin? I work in fashion. I've worked in fashion for 20 years and I don't have a Birkin. And I, I don't want a Birkin badly enough that I would buy a fake one. But like what are you, what are you trying to say with this, Birkin? What are you trying to signal? And I know that people probably think I'm being like esoteric and crazy and like, oh, it's not that deep. But like I, I think it is kind of that deep if you take a second to think about it.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, it is, it's, it's just good.

[Les]

Questions to ask yourself. What is it, what is it that having this, this dupe, this thing, what do, what do I think this is going to do for me?

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah, what are you trying to signal? Who are you trying to prove something to? Is it it yourself? If so, what are you trying to prove to yourself?

[Guest Commentator]

It's.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

If it's to others, what are you trying to prove to them? And why are you trying to prove something to others? Like just something to think about.

[Guest Commentator]

Food for thought.

[Les]

I think these two are feel a little bit related to me. Rigidity and beige tyranny.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

The tyranny of beige, you know, it is the same tyranny of beige comes more so with like your interiors. There was a period of time where everything had be to, to be beige, light beige, brown camel. That's just not fun. Like where's the personality? And then again with rigidity, I think it's, it's the same like flexibility for me in the ins was me trying to figure out how to be more flexible in my life. But then also like literally mobility, like start stretching. You need to stretch and so physically and also like stretch emotionally, personal, like, you know, like personality wise, that sort of thing. And so when I think about rigidity and beige tyranny, it, it does, it feels of the same ilk.

[Les]

Absolutely connected. This one I can really get behind. Early morning scrolling.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yikes. I gotta say, I haven't been too good at that one. It's early morning scrolling. I was in a bad way last week too when like the, the media, the news cycle was just like hell, right? And you wake up in the morning and you like, you read one thing and it just ruins your entire day. And so I really started over this last week and this week I'm like, okay, let's return to reading books in the morning. Like let's get back to. I'm reading the Guest right now by Emma Klein. I know the book came out like a long time ago, but it was on my bookshelf. I'm like, you've wanted to read this book. Do this in the morning, read for 20 minutes. Ready? Retrain your attention span. Again. And, like, cut the early morning scrolling to an extent.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Les]

It just helps anxiety so much, not start your day with it.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah, I agree.

[Les]

I also, earlier, maybe, maybe about a month or two ago, I was going through a little bit of a phase where I was waking up and scrolling first thing. And I also had to be like.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

You gotta check yourself. And for me as well, and I'm sure for you, like, you can justify it and be like, it's work. I have to know what's going on. But, like, do I have to know what's going on at 6am or can I wait until 8am like, give yourself a little bit of breathing time. Do your stretches, work on your flexibility. Drink your water before your coffee so you don't like, you know, jack up your anxiety again, like, all the things that you can do and then hop on your phone and scroll for a little bit.

[Les]

Exactly, exactly. Okay, this next one, I have heard you talk about this capsule wardrobes about.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Why is this gonna bite me in the ass? I don't know. Okay, so here's my thoughts on capsule wardrobes. Again, it sort of dovetails and is sort of the same thing around quiet luxury, personal style. There are these phrases that have become so fraught and overwrought in, like, Internet culture. And capsule wardrobe, to me, is one of them where people are like, if I don't have a capsule wardrobe, then I don't have style. Or, if I don't have a capsule wardrobe, then my wardrobe is shit. And it's like, like, no, that's not how that works, Cap. Capsule wardrobes are supposed to make your life easier. I don't think they should be prescriptive. And as they function right now, they feel a little too prescriptive to me. So when I read a craps, when I read a story about a capsule wardrobe, it's always like a striped tea, a trench coat, a button down. Yeah, button down. All of these things. But it's like, what if that's not your life? Then what do you do? Then you have like a pencil skirt and a button buttoned down and all these things that don't fit. And that's not your capsule wardrobe. So the way I operate is more like, you know, something, a dress that makes you feel like a million bucks no matter how you like what you put when you're wearing it. Right. Things that are more based on vibe and the feeling it gives you rather than the particular piece itself.

[Guest Commentator]

Exactly.

[Les]

And I think that also lends itself so much more to the creativity piece that we were talking about earlier where it is that self expression instead of feeling like it's a box that you're checking.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yes, exactly. Or a box that you're like putting yourself in.

[Les]

Yeah, exactly. Obsessing over finding personal style.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Well, there it is.

[Les]

Similarly.

[Guest Commentator]

Yep.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah. I just. You can't like, personal style will find you. You don't have to find personal style. It'll find you.

[Les]

I love that. That's a. That's similar to what you were saying about style being like moving into a house.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Like you.

[Les]

You let your life kind of. Of living it and breathe in it.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah. And to what you were saying is that it is something that can change and is sort of like a living, breathing organism. And that's the exciting part of style.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, exactly.

[Les]

Oversharing on the Internet.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Let's cut it out, guys. Let's not do that anymore. Take it to the group chat. Take it to the group chat. Get off X. Get off of all of the things. Stop yelling on the Internet. Take it to the group chat.

[Les]

100% micro trend culture.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Oh, yes. That was a big thing last year, I would say. And there. I can't remember what core it was, but it just like really sent me over the edge. And I was like, enough is enough. Like, we have to stop naming things. We have to stop. It just felt like all of the cores were really contributing to over consumption in a way that just felt untenable to me, especially as somebody who's worked in this industry for so long. And it's like, okay, guys, like, knock it off.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

And it seems like that doesn't really happen that much anymore. Yeah, that's kind of gone. That's kind of gone away, right?

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Les]

Not as namey this year for sure.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

That's good.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah, I think so.

[Les]

Good.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah. Good.

[Les]

And then the last one being basic bad way.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yeah. I think being basic in a bad way is the sort of like, I don't know. Well, let's say being basic in a good way. I think being basic in a good way is the stuff that is like, like brings you joy and like wholeheartedly leaning into that. So like some people may say, like doing pilates and getting a matcha is like, basic. I don't know. That makes me really happy. So I'm gonna do those things. Like, and I think that, like ignoring that or shying away from that or being a hater on that sort of stuff is being basic in a bad way. Like, you think that you are cooler than me because, like, I like to do Pilates. Like. Like buzz off. That's not true.

[Guest Commentator]

Yeah, exactly. About the feeling.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Yes. Yeah, exactly.

[Guest Commentator]

I love that. Yeah.

[Les]

Nikki, thank you so much for being here. This was so much fun.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Thank you for having me. This was great.

[Les]

Please let the girls know where they can keep in touch with you and when new episodes of Nice Talk come out. For sure.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

So Nice Talk is anywhere you get your podcasts and they come out on Thursdays and you can find me at nikkiogun on all social media platforms and you can read Marie Clara Marie claire.com Perfect.

[Guest Commentator]

Thank you so much.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Thank you.

[Co-host]

Thank you for tuning in to this.

[Hostess]

Week'S episode of she's so Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show. Notes for resources, links and discount codes. And if you are really feeling lucky.

[Co-host]

We would appreciate your rating and your review. It really helps us be able to improve the show, to get great guests.

[Hostess]

And to understand what you want to hear more of.

[Co-host]

Thank you for tuning in and I'll.

[Les]

See you next week.

[Cameron Rogers]

Hi friends, I'm Cameron Rogers, mental health advocate, mom, love to content creator and host of Conversations with Cam. This podcast is dedicated to having honest conversations, prioritizing your well being and reminding you that no matter what you're feeling.

[Co-host]

You are not alone.

[Cameron Rogers]

We'll discuss mental health maintenance, the ups and downs of motherhood, the trials and tribulations of life, and have a lot.

[Nikki Ogunaki]

Of fun along the way.

[Cameron Rogers]

Whether you are knee deep in diapers or just trying to keep your sanity intact, this podcast is for you. Expect laughs, maybe a few tears, and hopefully some breakthroughs along the way. Make sure to subscribe and tune in for new episodes of Conversations with Cam every Wednesday morning.

[Les]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.