← She's So Lucky
She's So Lucky
The Truth About Hair Health (That No One Talks About) ft. Nutrafol’s Dr. Heather Woolery-Lloyd
00:38:04
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- [00:01]
A
The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome back to she's so Lucky. My name is Les, I am your host and I'm coming at you with a special bonus episode. Today we just wrapped up our Business of you series talking all about being the CEO of our lives. And next week we're heading into our Lucky Girls Invest series where we're talking all about investing and and in Lucky Girls Invest, we are going to be focusing on investing financially, but I also am a big component of investing in yourself. And so that's going to be the flavor of today's episode to get you ready for the investing series. And when I think about ways that I invest in myself, it's really all about doing things that really support my confidence and just feeling like the best version of myself. And I know for me and for a lot of us, that often involves my hair and how I'm feeling about my hair and the state of my relationship with my hair often influences how confident I feel and whether or not I feel like the investments in myself are really generating a return. So that is what we're going to be talking about today. So in this bonus episode of she's so Lucky, I'm sitting down with board certified dermatologist Dr. Heather Willery Lloyd, Chief Medical Advisor at Nutrafol, to unpack the science behind hair health and why the conversation around thinning, shedding and scalp care deserves so, so much more openness, especially for women. Together, we're exploring the connection between stress hormones, lifestyle and hair changes throughout life while sharing practical ways to better understand and support your hair from the inside out. Doctor Heather welcome to she's so Lucky.
- [01:59]
B
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
- [02:01]
A
I'm really excited to have you for a couple of reasons. One, I think that conversations about hair are incredibly important, but two, I actually don't know if I have seen enough conversations about hair from the medical perspective and actually talking to dermatologists about hair and the state of our hair and how we can better take care of it. Before we get into that, I would actually love for our audience to maybe get to know you a little bit better and to better understand what brought you to dermatology.
- [02:32]
B
Well, I'm a dermatologist, I'm based in Miami and I see patients, but a huge part of what I do is also clinical research. And of course I'm the chief medical advisor at Nutrafol where I spend a lot of time educating about exactly what you just spoke about, talking about hair and why people are so emotional about hair Thinning. And I have a huge part of my mission is for people to feel comfortable talking about hair thinning and to destigmatize this, because this is something that everyone hides. My patients who come in to see me, they'll say, oh, you've never seen anything like this before, because women who have hair thinning hide it. So it's very isolating. So it's so important to me to have this conversation and make it something that people aren't afraid to talk about.
- [03:20]
A
Yeah. And when we experience changes with our hair, things like thinning, why do you think it garners such an emotional response out of us?
- [03:28]
B
I think one of the main reasons why hair thinning gets this emotional response is because no one expects that they will experience hair thinning. So when it starts to happen, it's a little bit of a shock, and you have to, you know, address this thing that you never prepared yourself for. And there's so many things that can influence hair thinning. Major stressful events can do that. Postpartum, after women have babies, you can experience significant thinning. With aging, we have thinning, but no one expects it to happen to them. So when it happens, it's a little bit surprising and jolting. Right. And on top of that, it's isolating, as I mentioned, because there are not a lot of people talking about hair thinning. And so you feel like you're the only one.
- [04:11]
A
Yeah. Why do you think people don't talk about it more? Is it like shame education?
- [04:16]
B
I think it's a combination of both. There's some shame because your hair is kind of a huge part of your identity. So when you have significant thinning, it changes how you view yourself, and there is some shame and embarrassment. And then the other thing is that women hide their hair thinning. So think about acne. Acne. Years ago, people used to hide it, but now there are those pimple patches. And it's very, very common to have stickers on your face. And even though nobody wants to have acne, it's a little bit destigmatized, whereas hair is not like that. I think people still make a huge effort to hide thinning, and therefore you feel isolated.
- [04:53]
A
Yeah. Yeah. There's also such a cultural component to hair as well. Is that something that you've seen in your practice? Yes.
- [05:01]
B
So I specialize in skin of color, so a lot of my patients are of all different ethnicities. And particularly in the African American community, hair thinning, it can have a tremendous impact on self esteem, self confidence. It is a Huge part of your identity, how you style your hair. And we're proud of our hair. And when you start to have hair thinning, it influences how you view yourself. It impacts self confidence. It really is something I talk to my patients about because sometimes people will come in and say, I know I really shouldn't be concerned about this because it's cosmetic. And I'll say, stop right there. You have every right to be angry, ashamed, upset that you're having hair thinning, because that's normal. Like, it's normal to be angry and upset and don't say, oh, it's just cosmetic. It does impact your confidence, your quality of life. And so it's something that I really talk about with my patients because I want them to feel empowered.
- [05:52]
A
Yeah, what you just said really stuck out to me of affirming to them that it's more than just cosmetic because I think that's something that a lot of us can relate to, I think, especially as black women. Also, our hair is such a big part of community and how we care for it and how we connect with one another and how we bond over shared experiences related to our hair. And so when we experience changes that might be like, scary, something like thinning, that may feel like it's out of nowhere or that feels alarming, like, it also impacts these other things are how we feel like we can connect to one another, being a part of community, like it is so much more than just how it looks.
- [06:30]
B
Exactly. And also people might volunteer and say, oh, I have something for that. Or you should try this. And you know, you might be thinking, my patients will say, I'll be having what I think is a good hair day. And someone will say, oh, you know what, your hair is really thinning. You need to try this and give like, you know those aunties who think they're helping, but it destroys your day because you're thinking that you're doing okay and then you know, it kind of impacts self esteem and self confidence. So it's something I see in my practice all the time. And I think it's something we need to talk about openly so it's not so hush, hush. Hidden.
- [07:04]
A
Yeah, I saw this post on Threads recently where I was like, oh, this is so relatable. Where this woman was basically saying, like, as a black woman, if your dad asks what's going on with your hair, then you know, it's probably not. Yes, probably not looking too good. And the less hair he has, the more invested he is and what's going on with your Hair. And I was like, oh, I feel, I feel very attacked because I already know if my dad asked me what's going on with your hair, it means, yeah, it's trouble. You probably haven't done anything to it in a minute.
- [07:30]
B
Exactly.
- [07:32]
A
I'm like, we've all had that experience.
- [07:33]
B
The dad notices and the mom notices. It's like, okay, that's part of the course. But dad, yeah, you have to worry
- [07:39]
A
and asking this question, what's going on with it? I'm like, well, you can see what's going on with it. It's not looking too good today. You know what I mean? Like, what do you want me to do?
- [07:46]
B
Yeah, I get it.
- [07:47]
A
Coming back to the topic of hair thinning, I would love to have a better understanding of digging deeper into some of the things that cause this because I think we kind of mentioned it at a top level. Things like stress, things like postpartum or age. Can we dig a little deeper into the details of like what is happening in our bodies? What is happening that's actually causing that to happen?
- [08:10]
B
With stress related hair thinning, which is something I see so often in my practice, what happens is that, well, let's back up. I'm going to tell you a little bit about hair biology and then I'll be able to explain the stress related hair thinning. So our hair grows in phases. So there's an active growth phase that's called anagen. And around 85% of your hair is actively growing at any given time. Then there's a transition phase and then there's the last phase, which is telogen, which is arresting and shedding phase. There's actually another phase called exogen. So anagen lasts between two to six years. It's actually genetically determined. So that's why some people can grow hair all the way down to their waist and some people can only grow hair to their shoulders. That's determined by the length of their antigen. And around 85% of your hair is an antigen and actively growing. But after a major stressful event, and that could be a car accident, a hospitalization, a major flu, general anesthesia, surgery, having a baby, all of those the body perceives as a major stressful event, you get an increase in cortisol and you can push a lot of your hairs from that antigen active growth phase into that resting phase. And that's what we see with stress related thinning. So that percentage of hair is actively growing decreases and the percentage of hair that's resting and increases. And you see shedding. Now what's interesting about stress related hair thinning is that it tends to occur three to six months and after the stressful event. So sometimes people don't connect the two. So you might have had general anesthesia six months ago, and then three to six months later notice increased shedding. And you might not connect it, or you might have like a major life event or a major move or something that's major. But you don't connect it because it's three to six months later. And that's something that I have to kind of. When you see a dermatologist, we ask these types of questions to help determine what type of hair thinning you have.
- [10:04]
A
That's interesting. So it sounds like normally our hair is always at some point in this cycle, but it kind of balances out and we're at, let's say like homeostasis.
- [10:13]
B
Right, right.
- [10:14]
A
But if we are experiencing some sort of event like this, it kind of throws that homeostasis off that we then begin to notice more of like the shedding. Because that normal balance is off.
- [10:25]
B
Exactly. It pushes the hair out of the growth phase into the shedding phase. And that happens later, three to six months later. So sometimes it' for people to connect the two events.
- [10:34]
A
I remember the first time I experienced that I was in college. I want to say I was about a junior in college. And at that time I just had so many traumatic things that had happened. Kind of towards the end of my sophomore year and like the summer before my junior year. And then I got to about halfway through my junior year and I started experiencing a lot of hair thin. You know, I'd be in the shower, I'd be brushing it and I'd notice. I'm like, okay, I usually shed a good amount. Cause I have like a lot of hair. But I was like, this seems like more than usual. And it, now that you're describing that, I'm like, oh, it makes sense that like the few months before that I was going through a lot, having a really hard time. That's why the timing of that thinning was happening.
- [11:13]
B
Yes. And sometimes that's why seeing a dermatologist is so important, because you might not have connected those two. And we go through a full history and examine your scalp. We look for different changes and it helps us determine what, what the cause of thinning is.
- [11:28]
A
Can we talk more about the scalp?
- [11:29]
B
Yes.
- [11:30]
A
Because I think a lot of us, myself included, kind of neglect our scalps and also forget that our scalp is skin just like the rest.
- [11:37]
B
Exactly, yes. So the scalp is really important. I think of it like, almost like the scaffold or the foundation that holds your hair. So it's the foundation. You have a healthy scalp. It puts your hair in the best position to grow a strong, healthy hair strand. Right. And we also know that the. When we're younger, we have a thicker scalp. Right. Just like the skin on our face, as we age, we lose collagen. You also lose collagen on your scalp. Really? So one of the reasons why some people have thinning with age is because our scalp changes and our scalp is aging. So that foundation for the hair is also changing. So scalp is really important. The scalp is very important, and it has its own microbiome. It's different than the microbiome on our face or on our bodies. So there are different types of bacteria that are normal. I always explain that the microbiome. We are supposed to have bacteria and fungus on our skin. That's a normal part of our body. It's supposed to be there. They kind of coexist with us. And the scalp has its own microbiome. So it really is the foundation of our hair. And a healthy scalp definitely contributes to having healthy hair. And the opposite is true. If your scalp is unhealthy, so your microbiome is off, or. Or as you age, you have thinning or changes in your scalp that does affect the hair.
- [12:56]
A
I just learned so much with what you just said. I did not know any of this. I didn't. But it actually, it makes sense now that you say it, but I never thought about this idea of, like, our scalp aging the same way.
- [13:07]
B
Yes.
- [13:07]
A
The rest of our skin ages, which makes so much sense.
- [13:11]
B
And that's why people notice something with age as normal. It's partially influenced by. By the aging of our scalp. Ah, wow.
- [13:20]
A
Okay. I have to think about that. Also. Thinking about the microbiome of the scalp was something I never realized. I always thought about, like, our gut microbiome or I feel like those are things that are talked more about. So how can we make sure that we have a healthy scalp microbiome? Or what are some signs that maybe our scalp microbiome needs some love?
- [13:40]
B
So, first of all, the most important thing is look for things that are microbiome friendly and have appropriate scalp care. So wash your hair appropriately, especially in patients of African descent. That might be every week or so, but we don't want to be going weeks and weeks and weeks without washing our hair, because that does not contribute to a healthy scalp microbiome. That can definitely impact the Microbiome. So look for microbiome friendly products. Make sure that we're washing regularly. Those are the things. And then the other thing that we can think about, if you're thinking is my scalp microbiome abnormal is scaling. So if you see lots of scaling, itching, or sensitivity, you might need to see a dermatologist.
- [14:23]
A
I'm curious if there are any common hair care habits that a lot of us have that are not helpful to our scalp microbiome.
- [14:32]
B
So things that are not helpful for our scalp microbiome are, first of all, not washing frequently enough. So I think it's really important to wash hair at least once a week, if possible. And even if your hair is in braids or in a. In a hairstyle where it's harder to wash, at least addressing the scalp, because there are products that can address the scalp. So that's one of them. The other thing is just in general for your overall hair health is low manipulation. So I know we love to do all of these fun things to our hair, but it really can impact our hair and our scalp. So tight hairstyles are probably one of the big ones that I see in my practice as a dermatologist that impact scalp health and also hair health and very high manipulation. Those are the things that when we're kind of pulling and tugging in our scalp, that impacts our hair.
- [15:19]
A
Can we get some examples of what would be considered high manipulation versus low manipulation?
- [15:23]
B
Very tight braids very tightens. If you can't sleep after you get your braids done. Not a good sign. If you see little bumps around the hair follicles or little pustules, which I'll sometimes see in practice. Not a good sign. I have a friend who's a dermatologist. She says any hairstyle that induces pain is not a good hairstyle, which I know is a tough one because we do so many things to our hair, but definitely we want to avoid tension and tight hairstyles. That's a big one that you need to avoid. And then, of course, things like high heat that really affects the hair shaft more. Blow drying and then hot iron and flat iron and over and over and over again. Guilty. I know.
- [16:05]
A
Guilty.
- [16:06]
B
And, you know, it's a little is okay, but overdoing it is what can lead to damage of the hair shaft.
- [16:12]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Oh. I'm like, I got to do better. Because I know I spend once it hits a certain point of the year of like, summer being hot, I'm like, oh, then my hair is in braids all summer. And then once it cools it down, it's like. Then it's.
- [16:26]
B
As long as it's not too tight and you're taking care of your scalp and you're cleansing your scalp, it's okay.
- [16:30]
A
Okay.
- [16:31]
B
Because obviously, we all want to do our beautiful hairstyles, but we just have to be aware of what those types of hair hairstyles can. How those types of hairstyles can affect your hair.
- [16:43]
A
Definitely. Yeah.
- [16:44]
B
So. And a low tension hairstyle would be twists or wash and go. Those are low manipulation hairstyles.
- [16:52]
A
Yeah. So where you're not actually, like, manipulating the texture as much. You're not. You're leaving it as close to its natural state as possible.
- [16:59]
B
Exactly.
- [16:59]
A
So beautiful. Yeah. I would love to talk a little bit about the correlation between nutrition and hair as well. Well, like, how does what we put in our bodies also impact our scalp microbiome and how our hair presents?
- [17:15]
B
Well, diet definitely influences your hair. And your hair needs nutrients to grow. One of the biggest nutrients it needs is protein. So if you are. If your diet is low in protein, you're not taking in enough protein, your body kind of funnels the protein that it's getting to other organs. We think our hair is important, but the body might not think it's as important, and it funnels all of those nutrients to the organs that it thinks is more important, and your hair can suffer. So low protein diets can result in. People who have low protein diets might see increased shedding, increased hair thinning, and that's because the body is shuttling that protein to the structures that it thinks is more important. So that's something I definitely see especially recently, because we see a lot of people recently with dietary changes, and. And it can lead to hair thinning. Vitamin D is very important for our hair. There are many things in our diet that can influence our hair, and we just want to have a healthy, very healthy diet with various different things, all different types of food, but also high in protein. That's really important for our hair.
- [18:21]
A
You make a good point about. Our body is really focused on helping us survive.
- [18:27]
B
Yes.
- [18:27]
A
And as much as we love our hair, it's not necessarily, like one of our key organs or functions that's helping us survive. So if we're not getting enough of water, what we need, then our body's gonna prioritize the things that keep us alive.
- [18:38]
B
Exactly. That's exactly what happens. And so if you don't have a very healthy diet that's high in protein and fruits and vegetables and all the Things that we know we should be eating. It can impact your hair. Yeah, yeah.
- [18:50]
A
And can we also talk a bit about supplementation as well?
- [18:53]
B
Yes.
- [18:54]
A
Obviously you work with Nutrafol and they're partnering with us for this episode. And what kind of gaps does supplementing with something like Nutrafol help fill in maybe where our diet can't fully cover?
- [19:06]
B
Well, Nutrafol, I love this brand. It's something that I, as a dermatologist really resonate with because it takes a whole body approach to hair thinning. So let's talk big picture. So there we've talked about so many things that can influence hair health. So stress, diet and nutrition, aging hormones, all of those things can influence hair health. And Nutrafol's approach is a whole body approach. So it contains ingredients like saw palmetto that can help with hormone balance, Ashwagandha, which can help with stress. It contains vitamin D, there's marine collagen. So all of these ingredients work together. One of the things I didn't mention is that I'm also board certified in lifestyle medicine. And lifestyle medicine is a specialty that focuses on how lifestyle influences our overall health and wellness. And it looks at evidence based ways through lifestyle. And that's how Nutrafol works really with the whole body. It's not just one single ingredient. But thinking of all of these key root causes and using ingredients in the supplement to address these key root causes.
- [20:14]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. And it sounds like that also ties back to what we were talking about in the beginning of like these lifestyle factors that also tend to impact our hair if we're experiencing thinning.
- [20:23]
B
Exactly. So and I think that's one of the reasons why it works so well. And I'm not just saying that there's lots and lots of studies that. There's over 25 studies that have been published on the benefits of Nutrafol and it's also safe. So for me as a dermatologist, it's very important to me. I think safety is just as important as efficacy. And in the supplement space, I think this becomes even more important. So the Nutrafol hair growth Nutraceuticals are NSF certified for sport. So nsf, are you familiar with nsf?
- [20:51]
A
A little bit.
- [20:51]
B
A little bit, yeah. So it's an independent third party organization that makes sure that what's on the label is what's in the bottle. So it's a testing organization for safety and quality. And Nutrafol is NSF certified for sport, which is the most rigorous type of NSF certification, which Means not only that what's on the labels in the bottle, but that also that they test for many banned substances to make sure that there's a true quality assurance when it comes to these supplements. So important to me as a dermatologist because the supplement space can sometimes not be as forthcoming. And Nutrafol has such a strong commitment to safety. And of course, there's phenomenal efficacy. I see that in my practice, which
- [21:34]
A
I think is super important and also important for people to understand when they're out looking for things to supplement their diet with. How do you understand if something is credible or not? How do you know if what's in the label is in the bottle? I guess knowing that people can look for an NSF certification and knowing what signs to look for as they make informed choices is important.
- [21:53]
B
Yes. And I think the other thing is if it's supported by dermatologists or doctors, depending on what they're looking for. But Nutrafol is the number one recommended supplement by dermatologists for hair growth. The reason why that is is because there are so many studies, very robust studies. So there's randomized double blind studies, the type of study that eliminates bias. That means half of the patient take the supplement and half of the patients take a placebo pill and then measure improvements. And so those types of studies really speak to the data and to the research that shows that it really actually works. On top of that, for me, also, safety is just as important. So the dermatologist reason why we feel so comfortable with neutral fall is because they covered all of those bases. The efficacy, but also the safety.
- [22:38]
A
Yeah, super important. I would also love to talk a little bit more about health throughout the lifespan, because you shared with us earlier how the skin on our scalp kind of ages just like the skin everywhere else. But I'm curious about different events throughout our lives and how they impact our hair health. Also, as a millennial woman, like many other millennial women, perimenopause is on my mind. A lot of my generation are like, there. I'm. I'm not quite there yet, but will likely be soon. And so I'm curious how something like perimenopause also changes our hair or impacts our hair.
- [23:16]
B
So this is something, it's a hot topic. Right. Menopause is having its moment.
- [23:20]
A
Right.
- [23:20]
B
So. And I think it's wonderful because that's another thing that people didn't talk openly about 20 years ago. This is not something that we spoke about. And so I love that women feel comfortable talking about this topic. Because it's a normal part of life. And it's something that we need to discuss. So what happens? So during menopause, we have a decrease in estrogen, right? And estrogen are the female type hormones. So what happens is you might get a relative dominance of the androgens, which are the male hormones, and that can affect your hair. So when you have this relative dominance of the male hormones, we actually have those hormone receptors on our scalp. We have dht, this type of male hormone receptor on our scalp. So then you might notice hair thinning. The most common complaint is thinning of the part. So my patients will say that my part, the central part, is getting wider or more see through. And that is probably one of the most common complaints for women who are perimenopausal or menopausal is this change in their hair, just this increased thinning, usually right in the frontal hairline, right where your part is. So that's what's happening biologically. And it's something that, again, women might not see a dermatologist because they might think, am I really thinning? What's going on? You might question yourself. And that's why I tell patients or your listeners, go see a dermatologist. Even if you think, if you have an inkling, you know, I think my hair is thinning or there's some changes, don't wait to see if it is. Just go to the dermatologist, because then we can evaluate.
- [24:47]
A
And when a dermatologist evaluates, what does that usually entail?
- [24:51]
B
So we do many things. So one of the things we do is a hair pull test. That means we pull a little section of hair to see how many hairs come out. And if there's a more than normal amount of hair, we call that a positive hair pull test. We do a physical exam. So we look at the pattern of hair loss. Is it located on the front? Is it located on the crown of the scalp? Is it diffuse? We'll ask questions. We might ask about, have you had a major stressful event or, you know, we're looking. We have. There's so many things in our history, our physical exam, that we do to help determine, first of all, what is the cause of the hair thinning and what our plan is.
- [25:24]
A
That makes sense.
- [25:25]
B
Yeah.
- [25:25]
A
Coming back to the topic of perimenopause, I'm also curious if from like a nutrient standpoint, there's also things happening in our bodies or like nutrients that once we're in that phase, we should be more on top of making sure we're getting to just make sure our bodies are supported.
- [25:44]
B
Well. Something that changes with age is your microbiome. Your gut microbiome. And many of Nutrafol's nutraceuticals contain. Some of them contain ingredients to help with the gut microbiome. Because when your gut is healthy, you're better at absorbing nutrients. That's really important. So even if you're taking in all the nutrients, but you have an altered gut microbiome, you might not absorb those nutrients. So that's something. I'm glad you brought that up. That's something that's very important. As we age, our microbiome changes. It's really important to have a healthy gut microbiome. You can have a healthy gut microbiome that by having a varied diet and lots of fiber and all different types of fruits and vegetables, but you can also take things that can help to support your gut microbiome.
- [26:26]
A
Yeah, that. That definitely makes sense. I'm also curious because I've read and learned some things related to like, gut health and stress. It sounds like those things are all connected where it could also be tied in with like, our gut microbiome is changing, which can also be linked to, like, feeling stressed or anxious, which, as we've mentioned a few times, is also linked to hair thinning. Like, it's all connected.
- [26:47]
B
Everything is connected. I will say, in our body, it's like you mentioned at the beginning, homeostasis, it's like this interconnection between all of these things and we're learning more. We learn more every single year. Like, when I'm reviewing the literature, I do a lot of lectures and I'm always so excited. I always say, never underestimate modern medicine because we learn so much. But yes, everything is connected. There's a gut skin axis, a gut skin brain axis. You know, all of those things are connected.
- [27:14]
A
Yeah. Which is so fascinating but also kind of fun to nerd out over.
- [27:18]
B
It's fun. Yeah, I love it. You know, for me, it's fun to learn all of these new things, see the new data, and for me, as someone who's board certified both in dermatology and lifestyle medicine, it shows us that all of these systems are interconnected. Nothing lives on its own. And we really need to take this whole body approach when it comes to hair health. And Nutrafol really does do that.
- [27:39]
A
Yeah, yeah. I think one of my biggest takeaways from this conversation is I do think in the past I relied a lot on hair education solely from hairdressers. And like it also can be a great resource, but also that dermatology is an important resource as well. When we're considering how we take care of our hair and having that be part of our, like, hair care team.
- [27:59]
B
Yes. And a part of your overall health. Because your hair sometimes is a reflection of what's going on inside of your body. Just like we've talked about today is your nutrition, your stress levels, your hormones. All of those things influence your hair health. And as dermatologists, we spend a lot of time understanding those things that can influence your hair health so that we can come up with the best plan.
- [28:22]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. I had one last question related to the kind of perimenopause of it all or the menopausal part of it all.
- [28:30]
B
I think that if you're a woman experiencing hair thinning associated with perimenopause, a supplement like Nutrafolin has been actually tested. It's the only supplement that has been tested in this population.
- [28:40]
A
Really?
- [28:40]
B
Yes.
- [28:41]
A
Okay.
- [28:41]
B
Yeah. So I am very evidence based. You know, any question you ask me, your answer is going to be based on a study.
- [28:47]
A
Okay, that's good to know. And how do the formulas differ? Because I take Nutrafol, the regular women's formula, because I'm still in my 30s. But how does that version differ from, like the postpartum version or the perimenopause version?
- [29:02]
B
So the perimenopause version is called neutrophil balance. It's for women 45 years and older, is it contains more of that hormone balance because remember, the estrogen drops and you have this relative androgen dominance. So it contains saw palmetto and maca and ingredients to help address hormone balance, which is very, very important for women in perimenopause and menopause. Postpartum is a completely different formula because obviously those women may be breastfeeding or, you know, had.
- [29:30]
A
Just had a baby.
- [29:32]
B
Yes.
- [29:32]
A
Yeah.
- [29:32]
B
So there are different ingredients like Shatavari, which is. Helps with the stress. There's so many things that are. That is a completely different formula and addresses the concerns that occur in women who are postpartum. And of course, when you're postpartum, you can't take some of the things that you can take when you're not breastfeeding. So it has different ingredients. Yeah.
- [29:51]
A
Okay, good. That's helpful.
- [29:53]
B
That's one of the things I love about Nutrafol is every formula is different for each stage of life. So we haven't talked about men, but there's a formula for men, for men 50 plus. Because again, aging plays a role in those men. As they age, they age. Related hair thinning. So that formula contains ingredients to help address cellular senescence and some of these things that occur with our cellular health overall, that occur with aging. So every formula is different. There's a vegan formula because most of the formulas have marine collagen, as I mentioned. And if you're vegan, you might not want to be taking marine collagen. So it contains an ingredient called Moldavian Dragon head, which helps to boost your body's own production of collagen. So I love that the formulas and it's kind of how we practice. As a dermatologist, in my practice, when I see a patient, not everyone doesn't get the same thing. Everyone depending on what your problems are, you get different things. And Nutrafol really creates formulas for different life stages. And each formula is specific for that life stage.
- [30:51]
A
Yeah, it makes sense. So it's meeting you where you are. Yeah. And it's also like, no matter what life stage we're in, there's something for us. Yes. There to support us.
- [30:59]
B
Exactly.
- [30:59]
A
Yeah. So, Dr. Heather, I'm curious, because you see so many patients, you also get access to so much, like, great information, data related to studies. I'm curious if there's been any learnings that you've had that have most impacted your habits or as you learn new things and you're like, okay, this is gonna impact how I take care of myself or how I take care of my hair. What some of those things have been.
- [31:23]
B
I will say, because I also am board certified in lifestyle medicine, I am very much focused on lifestyle. So I exercise every day. I am a little bit. I am very into exercise. I don't ever miss a day, pretty much. So I think that that's important for my health. Why? It's important for stress management, it's important for longevity. It's important to keep moving. One of my favorite sayings is if you don't keep moving, you get rusty. So you gotta keep moving. So I think exercise is huge. I think the things that I really try to implement in my life are the lifestyle changes like exercise. Eating as much a varied diet of different fruits and vegetables as many colors that you can have on the plate. I sometimes say, eat the rainbow. You know, I love when my plate looks like a rainbow. That's like my dream. Sleep is the one I'm not that great at. So I really try with sleep, but I am not good at getting. Ideally, you'd want seven to Nine hours of sleep every night, at least in the lifestyle medicine literature, that's what we recommend. And I sometimes hit seven, but I'm not as good at sleep. That's my weakness. But those are the things in stress management. So important. We talk so much about stress and hair thinning, so having ways to manage stress. For me, it's exercise, walking outside in nature that's so important, so helpful to decrease and center and reset. So those are the things that I do that help me for my overall health. Yeah, I really focus on lifestyle.
- [32:55]
A
Yeah, that's good. And I feel like the stress management piece is so hard. It's the one that I think a lot of people. I mean, there's a lot of things that are stressing us all out. And so finding ways to be as intentional about it as possible is really important.
- [33:09]
B
Yes, it really is. Walk outside in nature. Exercise is great because you get double duty. You get the benefit, obviously, for your physiologic health, but also for your mental health.
- [33:21]
A
So before we wrap up today, you know, this is. She's so lucky. And I would love. I've heard as we were chatting before we were recording, that you, Dr. Heather, are actually very lucky. I am wondering if you had any lucky stories that you'd like to share with us before we wrap today.
- [33:35]
B
I will tell you one of my lucky stories. So dermatology is a very challenging specialty to match, and it's actually one of the hardest specialties to imagine. And I decided to do dermatology in my third year of medical school, which is actually late. So a lot of times I mentor a lot of students, and many of them will come to me their first or second year knowing they want to do dermatology. You have to do research and write papers and do all of these things. So I decided a little bit late. Third year is a little bit late to decide, but I found a great mentor. I did a lot of research, but I was kind of resigned that if I didn't match in dermatology the first year, it was okay because I started a little bit late. But I was determined to be a dermatologist. And I always tell my students, if you want to be a dermatologist, you will be. You just have to keep trying. So I remember thinking, I'm probably not going to match the first time, but that's okay. I'll do a year of research and eventually I'll match. And so when match day came, you find out on Monday if you matched, and then you find out on Friday where you Matched. So I knew I didn't match in my brain. So I said, oh, I'm going to open my letter at home. Because I know I didn't match, but it's okay. I'm okay with that. And to keep in mind, less than 50% of people match in dermatology, so it's very hard to match. And my friends were like, just open the letter. Just open the letter. And I said, you know, I'm gonna do it at home. Cause I knew I didn't match and they kind of convinced me. And at my medical school, the derm department was actually in the same building as the medical school. So I was in front of the door to the dermatology department, and I opened the letter and I matched. And all of us were just screaming and jumping up and down. Cause it was a huge deal. And the chairman of the department walked out at that time and kind of looked at us and kind of chuckles because he knew what was going on and kind of nodded and kept going. But it's one of my favorite lucky memories because I felt so fortunate. I worked hard, but no matter. You can really work hard and still not match in dermatology. That's actually very common. So that's probably one of my luckiest moments, I would say.
- [35:29]
A
Yeah. To think that you almost didn't open that letter and like, let it sit.
- [35:32]
B
Yes.
- [35:34]
A
But amazing. Very exciting. Thank you so much for sharing.
- [35:37]
B
Thank you.
- [35:37]
A
So before we finish up today, I'm curious if there's any, like, final takeaways that you have for our audience, for our clovers, our lucky girls who are maybe looking to have a better relationship with their hair. Looking to take better care with their hair. Like one. One last little nugget for them.
- [35:52]
B
My biggest nugget is see a dermatologist. If you're concerned, don't wait. Don't think. I think my hair is thinning, but I'm not sure. I think it's so important. Just go straight to the dermatologist because we do have a plan. We'll evaluate you, do our history and physical, determine what the root cause of your hair thin is and come up with a plan. So my biggest take home is don't wait. Go see a dermatologist.
- [36:18]
A
Definitely. Definitely. Amazing. Thank you so much. Dr. Heather.
- [36:21]
B
Thank you so much for having me.
- [36:22]
A
I learned so much, which actually I've recorded at this point Close to 350 episodes. I would say a solid 300 of them have been very wellness focused. And I learned so much from this conversation.
- [36:36]
B
Thank you so much. I love to teach. This is my favorite thing to do. So I'm so happy you learned something today. I love when you learn something new, even if it's a little nugget.
- [36:44]
A
Exactly. That's what we're here for.
- [36:45]
B
Yes.
- [36:46]
A
Yeah. Thank you all for tuning in to this bonus episode. I hope that you learned just as much as I did and I hope that it inspired you to have a better relationship with your hair. So I will see you on Tuesday. Back to our regular schedule. We're going to be kicking off our investing series, but make sure you head to the show description to learn more about Dr. Heather, to learn more about Nutrafol and more about how you can take better care of your hair. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of she's so Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show. Notes for resources, links and discount codes. And if you are really feeling lucky, we would appreciate your rating and your review. It really helps us be able to improve the show, to get great guests and to understand what you want to hear more of. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.