Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (2:32)

I love that. I feel like you just gave our audience so many good affirmations in that little nugget. Because so much of what I think a lot of us consider luck is alignment, like, things lining up at the right time. But you often have to put yourself in the position for that.

Vivian Tu (2:45)

And I think that's proximity, right? So, like, this is crazy, by the way, people DM'd me being like, how did you find a rich husband? First off, I'm the breadwinner. Second off, I'll tell you, I found a rich husband by making myself the main plot line. I went to the University of Chicago. It's one of the top schools in the country. I graduated with honors. I got that fancy job. I made a lot of money myself. I ran in those same circles. So by the time I meet my husband, I get to exist in that world with or without him. And we happen to hit it off, and I happened to find the love of my life. But, like, when people say, I want to find a rich husband, I want to find whatever, I'm like, well, you know what the odds of finding a husband who goes to an Ivy League school is if the general population, like, near zero. But if you get into an Ivy League college, the odds of you finding an Ivy league husband, nearly 100, as long as you're not a freak. I just think that you have to make yourself the traits that you desire in a partner. And so when it comes to being prepared for opportunities, like, can you put yourself as close to those opportunities as possible? I was able to put myself in the proximity of a rich man because I was a rich woman. I am able to put myself in the proximity of development television opportunities because I'm already making content, because I'm already hosting, because I'm already doing interviews. When you start acting like you deserve the job, you get the job first.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (4:23)

I have to say, it's crazy that people DM you that I'm still, like, insane.

Vivian Tu (4:27)

Taking it back insane.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (4:29)

But also three snaps for everything that you just said. Because so much of it is about instead of looking for those qualities in other people, becoming the person who has those things. Yeah, Becoming a person who is surrounded by the people that you want to be surrounded by because you possess those qualities.

Vivian Tu (4:45)

Do you like you? Yeah, because I need to like me. And, like, you know the trope of, like, enemies to lovers, like, for, like, movies?

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (4:54)

I do. I do love that in a romance

Vivian Tu (4:56)

novel, I have enemies to lovers myself. Like, For a very long time, I think I felt like I wasn't born into the type of family that was going to provide me generational wealth. I wasn't the type of girl who was going to get things handed to me. And I was right. Nothing ever came easy for your girl. I had to blood, sweat, and tears my way through it. But I'm so proud of that because I can run circles around anybody because I had to work my ass off to get here.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (5:27)

Yeah. It gave you that preparation.

Vivian Tu (5:28)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (5:29)

Did you feel like there was a particular moment where that began to shift for you and you began to see the work that you were doing, really hit a tipping point point and start paying off? Has it compounded?

Vivian Tu (5:38)

I think at different phases of my life, I was the valedictorian of my high school. Because of that, I qualified for certain types of colleges. Being at those certain types of colleges, I was able to then get recruited for a Wall street job. Doing well at that Wall street job gave me a level of financial stability that most young people don't have. Because I made a grid network, I was able to get that second job at BuzzFeed. And when I got to BuzzFeed, I worked my butt off and I became one of the top employees. Because I had the finance and the media knowledge, I was able to put it together to build your rich bff. When I made video day in, day out, some good, some bad, some that got four views even though I worked on them for hours, I eventually got the podcast. I eventually got a book. I eventually got speaking deals. People love to look at the first video and the last video and ask, how did you get here? But you guys didn't watch me grind it out for five years. That's where all of it happened, little by little, overnight. It's like when you, like, live with someone and you don't see them change, but then you're like, wait, how did my kid grow six inches over the summer? It's like, yeah, that's how growth spurts work. But, like, you didn't notice it every single day. But if you look at a longer timeline, it's very clearly a trajectory. That's crazy.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (6:57)

Yeah. It's incremental. As long as you continue moving forward.

Vivian Tu (7:00)

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (7:02)

I would love to talk a bit more about your relationship with money and how it has evolved over time. In the book, you did share a couple of stories that felt like they were kind of reframes for you. Two stories that come to mind are, one involving a pair of jeans, and then Another story involving the trauma jeans when you were younger. And then another story in that's more recent, involving a trip that you sent your parents on and how it made you kind of change your mind about money and time.

Vivian Tu (7:31)

Can you elaborate on this? So the first story, the trauma jeans. These Abercrombie and Fitch trauma jeans. So I went to the mall with a girlfriend, and this was, you know, early high school, maybe end of middle school, roughly around that really pivotal female age I remember. And by the way, this is ACROSS the background is.08, the financial crisis. Yes. I did not realize this at the time. I was none of us very young, really new. I was like 14, 15.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (7:58)

We were teenagers at the time.

Vivian Tu (7:59)

Yeah. And I remember getting this pair of jeans. My girlfriend got the same pair of jeans. We were so excited to twin. It was cute. I brought them home. I had the receipt in the bag. Of course, the bag is just like this half naked man. Abercrombie and Fitch, of course. My mom looks inside the bag, she sees this receipt, and she sees how much this pair of ripped jeans are, and she blows a gasket and she's like, Vivian, you do not understand the value of a dollar. Like, we are like, you know, it's tough right now financially. Like, why would you do this? And I'm a young girl, so I have no argument to stand on. I'm not making money. And the only thing I can think to say is, well, my friend got a pair of jeans, too. And my mom looked me dead in the eye and she said, well, her parents are millionaires and your parents aren't. And it was like, one of the most painful things I had heard as a young kid because it finally made me realize that, like, families are different and our family does not have things that other families get to have. I was not worthy of that pair of jeans because of our financial situation. So I run up the stairs, I storm into my room, slam the door. Angsty teen stuff. And I made a promise to myself in that room that I was never, ever going to feel like this again. I was going to be rich. So rich that no one could ever tell me I didn't deserve a pair of ripped jeans. And obviously, fast forward. I don't even wear ripped jeans anymore. I'm not nearly cool enough for that. But I think the ripped jeans represented just a desire, something that I wanted, that I felt like I deserved. That made me feel confident and powerful in a way. And being told I couldn't have, it was so painful. And so I decided that, like, Money was never going to be a factor in my decision making again. And from there on out, every choice I made, whether it be the classes I took in high school to make sure I could have the highest possible GPA so I could be the valedictorian, the type of college I went to, the type of major I picked, the type of job I got was all to optimize so that I could have the best financial future, because I needed to have those ripped jeans and what those ripped jeans represented. And in my early 20s, making some of this Wall street money, doing well, I fell into the trap of, you make a little bit more, you spend a little bit more. And I was buying stuff to impress people. And it was crazy because, let me tell you, I got the new bag, I got the best shoes, I got all of it. The cool girl still didn't want to be my friend. It didn't matter. I felt like I was spending money on stuff, not because I necessarily wanted it, because I wanted other people to know I could have it. And it wasn't until I actually got to a point where I was financially stable that I looked back and I was like, what idiot decision making was that? But I give myself grace. I give young Viv grace, because she didn't know any better. And I think now fast forward to the second story. Wealth and richness look very different. For me. It's not necessarily about buying the nicest stuff. I mean, can you guys see my shoes? These are fugs I got off of Amazon. They were 40 bucks. And I can sit here proudly in an interview with you and feel fine doing that. And I tell people how much my stuff is, and it's never that expensive because wealth to me means buying freedom, buying time, buying opportunities, buying the luxuries, and gifting things to people that I care about. And for my parents, it was their 35th anniversary. They had given up a lot of vacations growing up so that I could go to summer camp, so that I could be on the swim team, so that I could go to the University of Chicago. I got scholarships, certainly, but they helped pay for a lot of it. I wanted them to have a vacation of a lifetime. I sent them an all expenses paid trips. There are, like, photos of my parents up against these, like, monstrous boulders, like, trying to pretending like they're the ones pushing them and like they're doing all of this silly stuff and they got to be those young people again. And it was a gift that felt so much better than anything that I could have bought myself. And I Think my perception of richness transformed from ripped jeans, feeling scarce, wanting to have money to spending money, not getting the real joy out of it, all the way to now I know what it's for, now I know what it means, and now I know what it can do for me.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (12:27)

Thank you so much for, like, kind of sharing that timeline with us. And I think what really stuck out to me were the different ways that you described how you felt at each part of the story, what you shared about the genes, story about how. And as a teenager, it's like, when you're a teenager, you're a kid. So as kids, we kind of create meaning out of things that may not necessarily be there. So you talked about feeling unworthy because it was like, something that was probably out of your family's budget at that time. That's not necessarily what that meant, but the fact that that was how you felt and how that motivated you is really powerful. And I think it's important to understand.

Vivian Tu (13:01)

Which, by the way, when I tell these stories to my mom, she goes, that never happened, ma'. Am.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (13:07)

What?

Sponsor/Ad Voice (13:07)

Please.

Vivian Tu (13:07)

Revisionist history.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (13:09)

I was there. Yeah. And like, I didn't make it up.

Vivian Tu (13:11)

Yeah, I didn't make that up. I didn't make that story up. Mom, you were there. We both participated. But, you know, that's how parents are. That's how they are. Yeah. It makes me giggle. I just, like, I think about that or like, when I'm like, do you remember when? And she's like, no. I'm like, oh, cool.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (13:25)

But then they also remember entirely different things, because sometimes my parents will be like, well, do you remember? And I'm like, no, I don't. Who is that? What are you talking about? Yeah, we all remember different things all the time.

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Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (18:24)

I also want to come back to what you shared about that middle part of the story, how when you were new to Wall street and you were kind of trying to keep up with the Joneses a little bit and buying these things, which I think a lot of people get trapped in, especially their first job, they're making money on their own for the first time. I think it's probably especially harder now for people who are in their 20s because of social media. It's like, way worse than it was, at least when I was.

Vivian Tu (18:47)

The Joneses are the Kardashians now.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (18:49)

Yeah. And how easy of a trap that is to get stuck in. Was there a moment where you were like, okay, actually, this isn't making me feel how how I want to feel.

Vivian Tu (18:58)

So the first bag I ever bought was a black Prada bag. And it was money that I had gotten from working for a full year. I'd saved and scrimped and scrounged, and I was so excited I bought this bag. It was so beautiful. I still have this bag. I'll never get rid of it, by the way. And the high I felt in this Prada store was, like, euphoria. And I was so glad that I had a testament to how hard I had worked. I had earned this bag. It was A reminder to me that anything was possible, that anything was in my reach, and I control my destiny. Every bag I bought after that was chasing that same feeling, and I've never had it again. Not once. And frankly, every additional bag I buy feels less interesting. I'm not gonna name the brand, and I'm not gonna name names, but I went and bought the second designer bag I own. I can count on one hand how many times I've worn this bag. It was thousands of dollars, and I thought it was going to have that same effect, but it didn't. It just felt wasteful. I regretted it. I couldn't return it. And there are moments where you're like, this isn't what I bargained for. And I think that's a very scary and frustrating feeling. I get so many people who DM me who are like, hey, I've done everything right. I got the right job, I made the good money, and now I'm 30, 40, 50, looking at my entire closet, looking at my life. I see where the money has gone, and I'm not happy, and this isn't what I wanted. And it's a shitty feeling.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (20:40)

Yeah. Such a shitty feeling.

Vivian Tu (20:42)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (20:44)

What do people do in that instance?

Vivian Tu (20:46)

I think it's an overhaul of how you think of your mindset, truly, because it's not just me sitting here being like, okay, well, like, now it's time to save. Like, that doesn't. Yeah, great. Yes, that's true. But you have to surgically understand what is going to spark joy for you and what is not. To this day, I still spend like crazy on vacations and on dining out. I. I can always justify it. It always makes sense. I have so much fun. I bring back the photos, I bring back the memories, and it all works. But now, at my big old age, at my wiser self, I would say that, like, I don't need to keep up when it comes to the latest and greatest purchase. Let me test it out. Let me see if I actually like it. Maybe I might get something cute. Maybe I might budget for something. But for me, really, it's more about experiences than spending on stuff, because the stuff has had a diminishing marginal return for me.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (21:50)

What I'm hearing you say, and I think it's really important for people to understand, is to really know what it is that they value. And, like, what do you value inside from, like, a heart perspective? Not what you think other people will value or what other people will think of you if you have it or what you think you should do. But, like, what do you genuinely.

Vivian Tu (22:08)

You can calculate this, by the way.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (22:10)

Really?

Vivian Tu (22:10)

Yeah. So when there's a purchase you're about to make, you calculate your hourly take home pay. This is post tax. So say post tax.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (22:18)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (22:19)

You make $25 an hour. Okay. And there's a pair of pants, and they're $100. You got to sit at your desk for four hours to get those pants. Are you cool trading four hours of your life for those pants? If you don't have any other pants, sure. But if you got a dozen other pairs of pants that look kind of similar. No. And so I think this helps you justify certain things and others know, but it's different for every single person. And I love this equation because it's a quick finger to the wind. Check. For most of us, it's hard to visualize money because it's like an abstract concept. But everybody knows what it feels like to work for four hours no matter what you do.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (22:59)

Yep.

Vivian Tu (22:59)

And four hours is a lot of time.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (23:01)

It is.

Vivian Tu (23:02)

So, like, is it worth it?

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (23:03)

And time, I think, is our most important asset because it's the only one we can't get more of.

Vivian Tu (23:07)

You can't get more of it. You can always make more money. You can always do whatever, but, like, you cannot get more time. We are born and we get as much as we get. And sure, you can make different life changes to extend that, hopefully, but you never know.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (23:19)

No, I love that equation.

Vivian Tu (23:20)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (23:21)

So I'd love to talk a little bit about generational wealth, because I do think it's one of those things that, like, everybody wants it. It's a term that's out there all the time.

Vivian Tu (23:29)

Y.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (23:30)

What does it actually mean?

Vivian Tu (23:32)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (23:33)

And how can people actually get it? What is the difference between earning money and building wealth?

Vivian Tu (23:38)

Yeah. Don't you love how people love to use words they don't actually know? All the time? All the time, all the time. So generational wealth, for me is essentially what are you able to pass down to make the experience of the next iteration of people in your family tree, their life easier than what you had. So generational wealth could be money. I really think generational wealth is knowledge. It could be a home. It could be existing cars. It could be a bunch of stuff. But generational wealth is not just cold, hard cash. It is anything that you can do to make the lives of your offspring easier. And the difference between making money and building generational wealth is do you get to keep it? You can make a lot of money if you're spending like it's going out of style. That doesn't actually do anything in terms of your bloodline, your family tree. When it comes to generational level wealth, are you able to choreograph a dance for your money so that it does exactly what you want? I know people who have a lot of money who end up passing away and there's no real plan. Their kids are going to have to go to court, go through the probate process to get that money. That money is up for grabs by everybody. That's a nightmare. But then there are people who have less than that and they have an estate plan, so they've got a will. They have their money and trust to protect it from certain creditors. They've got, you know, power of attorney documents so that, like, if anything were to happen to them medically, like their kids could help them make decisions. They've got a health care directive, they've got all this stuff cleaned up. That is rich. Because nobody ever has to guess what you would have wanted. So there's no fighting there. Nobody has to argue over who gets what. And then you, as the person who worked your tail off to actually make all of that wealth, get to dictate who gets what, how much, when, for what, and you get to continue to play puppeteer from the grave. And that is power, that is wealth. That's rich.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (25:57)

Absolutely. It's. It's being able to have those values live on even after you. You're no longer here.

Vivian Tu (26:03)

Exactly. Like, if you want to leave a little bit of legacy on this mortal earth for everybody else to enjoy because you loved them so much, wouldn't you want to set them up for success?

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (26:15)

Ideally, yeah. Isn't there a stat around? I'm going to butcher this because I don't know the actual stat, but it's something along the lines of, like, if someone kind of builds a certain amount of wealth or comes from nothing, builds a certain amount of wealth, like that dwindles.

Vivian Tu (26:31)

Yes.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (26:31)

In the next generation, really quickly.

Vivian Tu (26:33)

What?

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (26:33)

You know what I'm trying to say.

Vivian Tu (26:34)

Yes, yes. So it's typically generational wealth disappears in three generations. That's it. You know, it's the American phrase is like from shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations. In Chinese, there's actually a saying, it just means wealth does not pass three generations. Typically, what ends up happening. There's the generation that makes it so. Unfortunately, me, yeah, I'm the one working my tail off. I make all this money. The next generation will have watched their parents work their tail off, so they'll understand and they will know what I had to do to get that. So, okay, fine. They will, however, be frankly, significantly less incentivized to kill themselves to try and build this amazing, you know, empire, to be able to build that generational wealth, because they don't need to. They will have a much easier life than I'd had. And then the generation after them, they are going to look up and see that their parents haven't really had to work that hard ever. But they've always had a silver spoon in the mouth. And so this is where you see the kind of the crash out burnouts. This is where you see the failure to launches. This is where you see the Adam Sandler big daddy situation where Right, like he's like a rich kid who got hit by a car, gets like this insurance settlement. And then in the book you gave

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (27:56)

the story, the guy who was like the dj.

Vivian Tu (27:58)

Yeah, right.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (27:58)

That's what that makes me think of.

Vivian Tu (27:59)

It's so funny too, because everybody I go to college with who reads this book is going to know exactly who I'm talking about. Whatever, don't care. I've already made that, you know, that decision. But like, this guy just like has nothing going for him because he came for money. And it's unfortunate because if it is architected correctly, if it is choreographed correctly, that doesn't happen.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (28:22)

Yeah. So how do we, how do we choreograph it so that that doesn't happen?

Vivian Tu (28:25)

You choreograph it so that nobody assumes that they're getting a monstrous inheritance. There is a family fund that you can borrow against to maybe start a business. There are family funds that are set aside for certain things that are naturally going to improve your life outcomes. So college funds for everybody. Sure. But you got to get into an institution of higher education, whether that be a traditional four year college, cosmetology school, trade school, whatever you want to do. I'm not here to judge young people's yum. But like you're going to have to get some sort of higher education. Right. Unless you become like a kid youtuber and make a bajillion dollars, in which case great, good for you. But like you make it so that like it's not a handout because as soon as you start making a handout situation and raising entitled kids, it's game over.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (29:14)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (29:15)

Yeah. And I feel like that is probably so hard for people who may feel like I grew up without I had to work so hard. I want to make it so that my kids don't have it as hard as I do.

Vivian Tu (29:25)

You should.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (29:25)

It has to be a happy medium then.

Vivian Tu (29:27)

Yeah. The two sides of the coin, which, by the way, are crazy to me. One is like, I'm gonna absolutely spoil my kid. I'm gonna make it so easy for them. You're enabling them. Yeah, that's what's happening. And on the flip side, I get comments all the time where I'm like, this is what you should do to help your kids. And they're like, well, nobody helped me, so I'm not gonna do it for my kids. I'm like, so you like to facilitate generational trauma and generational curses. You hate your kids. That's weird.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (29:47)

And then what's the point, right. If you don't help anybody with it

Vivian Tu (29:50)

is to give them more love than you got is to make it easier for them. I am going to make my kids lives as easy as possible. They are going to be born into an incredibly privileged environment. Mom and dad have great connections. Mom went to a crazy fancy school that you will probably be able to nepo your way into. You're still gonna have to have decent grades, but like, it'll be easier for you than me cold applying. My parents didn't even go to college in this country, so, like, I don't have that. But if you think you're getting all of our money, you're nuts. If you think that I'm buying your first house for you, you're nuts. Like, I'm not doing that for my kids. But if you need a short term bridge loan so that you can get a lower mortgage rate, of course, happy to help you out. If you need maybe a situation where we put you on as an authorized user to our credit card so you can have an 800 credit score by the time you need to go apply for an apartment, we'll do that for you, no problem. I want you to have the easiest life possible but still have to live it. Yeah, I'm not living it for you.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (30:56)

And still know the value of.

Vivian Tu (30:57)

Of what you're getting. Yeah, of course.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (30:59)

For sure.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (31:01)

I also really appreciated that you've talked a bit about kind of the other side having these conversations up. So also what it looks like to have these conversations with parents, especially as they get older, or maybe they run into health challenges or maybe they get closer to retirement. Some of those conversations can be really tricky.

Vivian Tu (31:17)

And we're the sandwich generation. It's awful. We're trying to build our own families, take care of our own potential future kids. And then we still got to Take care of everybody above us. There are often times if you are the first person in your family to have financial success, you're the first person to go to college or the first person to have the fancy white collar job. Everybody comes a knocking come Thanksgiving time. They're like, hey, can I get a small business loan for Tony's Pizza Parlor? It's like, no, Uncle Tony. The last four businesses you started, it didn't work out.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (31:44)

I'm also not a bank, right?

Vivian Tu (31:46)

Literally, I'm not a bank. I think having conversations with your parents is hard. Something that I've noticed and, like, I've heard other, you know, incredibly astute, like, medical professionals talk about this. How we are born to our parents and they raise us. We are babies, we are helpless, whatever. Then at a certain point during the lifetime, the roles switch. We have to become the caretaker. We have to become the responsible person. We have to become the one who makes the big scary decisions. And our parents, as they get older and older, become more and more helpless. And that is a very scary turning point because you finally start to see your parents as humans instead of, like, infallible people. I think I saw this moment not from a health perspective or financial or anything sooner than others, because by the eighth grade, maybe a little bit earlier than that, my parents couldn't help me with my English homework anymore. Like, my parents don't speak native English. They worked very hard to learn the language and assimilate when they immigrated to this country. But, like, I speak English like a fluent native speaker. They don't. And so I had to figure that out on my own. Whereas for a lot of my peers, they could ask their parents, like, hey, what is the conjunction? Or, like, what is, you know, the preposition in the sense? Like, my parents didn't even know what that meant. And so I think I noticed that sooner than most kids have to. But for us as we're adults, I think it's really important to have the conversation early. Do you have enough money for retirement? What is the estate plan? Even if you don't have a lot of money? Is this something that we can do to help me avoid the court system? Is there a plan for how you would like your end of life to look? Do you want to be buried? Do you want to be cremated? Do you like, what's going on? It's so funny. I talked to my husband. I'm like, I want to be cremated. And scattered into the ocean. He goes, absolutely not. I'm like, first off, what do you mean, absolutely not? He's like, we're going to be buried right next to each other at the family plot. I'm like, have you been planning out my burial next to you? And he was like, yeah, of course. And I'm like, but like, what if I want to, like, just be free in the wind? He goes, no. And so, you know, it's a running joke between the two of us. But, like, do you know what your parents want? Because I don't want to have that argument with my siblings. I don't have any siblings. But, like, I don't want to have an argument with my siblings about what mom would have wanted. You need to know all the answers to these questions.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (34:09)

Yeah, I've seen that happen in my own family, and it's really tough.

Vivian Tu (34:11)

It's tough.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (34:12)

It's really hard.

Vivian Tu (34:13)

Yeah. You don't know until you ask.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (34:15)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (34:16)

Yeah. And a lot of parents. I don't know about you. When I try to have this conversation with my parents, my dad was like, so you're praying on my downfall? You think I'm going to die Plotting? I'm like, I'm not plotting. I'm just trying to ask, like, what's going on?

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (34:29)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (34:30)

And it's a hard conversation to have, but you'll be grateful you had it for sure today. You have to take care of future you.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (34:36)

Yeah, exactly. And in the book, you have a lot of, like, tangible steps of all of the different things that people need to have in order.

Vivian Tu (34:41)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (34:42)

So it's a very helpful. Step by step.

Vivian Tu (34:44)

Yeah. And I think, like, I want people to use this book as a resource to know what the steps might be. But everybody's situation is different. Like, maybe your situation is a lot simpler. Or maybe you have divorced parents who've remarried, you have half siblings. Like, there's a lot to go on here, but I promise you, you are not the richest or the brokest person who's ever done an estate plan. You are not the simplest or the most complex. People have done it before you and they will do it after you. Just remember, most of us are pretty middle the fairway. And you shouldn't feel embarrassed or ashamed and feel like, I'm broke. I'm rich. That attorney has seen it and they're

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (35:26)

going to get their share no matter what.

Vivian Tu (35:28)

Yeah.

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Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (39:44)

I would love to talk more about this idea of being well endowed, because that's the title, the title of, of the book. From a financial standpoint, what being well endowed means to you, why you think it's important for women in particular to be really knowledgeable about this.

Vivian Tu (39:59)

Yeah. So people always joke, they're like, so how? Well, I'm like, yeah, okay.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (40:04)

Catching print, which is the latest thing that's been on the for you page. The one. Have you seen that Catching print?

Vivian Tu (40:09)

Oh my gosh. I was, I was googling this. I was like, this is my work laptop. Like, this is crazy. Like, I'm the owner of the company, but like, I don't want this in my history. No. And when I talk about well endowed, I'm actually talking about what that's describing. An endowment. An endowment, simply put, is just a sum of money that is invested so that an organization's mission can be furthered into the future, into perpetuity. That is what I want for every single person. I want you to feel like you have enough money to live your happiest today, but also be able to plan for the future make that all of your dreams can actually come true. Because if you don't have money, that's not happening. And so the reason why this book is so important is because for many of us women, we have to take a back seat to everybody else in our life. We're like, okay, well first I'm a daughter, then I'm a wife, then I'm a, you know, a mother. Damn. Did you ever get a second to just be you?

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (41:06)

Right.

Vivian Tu (41:07)

Did you ever get a second to think about what you wanted? It is so important for women to have their own money because if somebody can feed you, they can starve you. And so all of us need to be well endowed.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (41:19)

Absolutely. I think that's also part of where some of the rich husband conversations like that it. And I'm not saying like chase a brokey. You know what I mean? We don't do that.

Vivian Tu (41:29)

We don't do that.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (41:30)

I do think that everybody needs to have financial agency in their lives and you cannot be outsourcing your financial well being to another person.

Vivian Tu (41:39)

So many women tell me, they're like, oh, but like my husband's better, I don't care. Sit at the table. That's your money. I really hate the idea of you and I get married. We just have one mega bank account. That would drive me nuts. If you and I get married, we're going to have an hours account that pays for things like our mortgage or our rent, our groceries, the utilities. Fine, we share those things. But you should still have your money and I should still have some my money too. Because 99% of domestic violence cases include financial abuse. If you don't have the money to run, you don't.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (42:11)

Yeah, I actually have story about what made me as a young woman see and be like, oh, I'm not gonna have all my money intertwined with someone. I worked for a startup company many years ago. The founder, how I feel about her is neither here nor there, but her husband, I know her, that's for offline. Her husband ended up getting into some legal trouble that she wasn't involved with, didn't have anything to do with, but he ended up getting in some really big legal trouble and all of his assets were completely frozen while this investigation was happening. She did not have any of her own bank accounts. All of her bank accounts were joined with him. So because all of their bank accounts were joint bank accounts with his name on it. Also all of her assets were frozen. She has kids. They had nothing for years because she didn't have any of her own bank account. She wasn't being investigated. She didn't do anything wrong. In that legal system space, if she would have had her own bank accounts, she would have been fine. But because she didn't, her money was stuck frozen for years while this investigation is happening.

Vivian Tu (43:12)

That's.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (43:12)

You just never know.

Vivian Tu (43:13)

That's crazy.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (43:14)

You never know.

Vivian Tu (43:14)

You never know. Don't y' all want a contingency plan? Come on. Have your own money, right.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (43:19)

That you can access no matter what.

Vivian Tu (43:21)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (43:22)

You know what I mean. How do you recommend couples navigate that

Vivian Tu (43:25)

you can have a conversation about what works for you? I've interviewed some incredible folks, and some of them just keep fully separate accounts. And, like, whoever gets to it, pays it, or they have things that they divvy up up in my relationship. We have yours, mine, and ours. We love that because then the stuff that we pay for together comes out of the hours account. But we can still do our own little things. And it's never like, why are you spending on that? It's like, both of us work. Both of us work hard. So, like, you're not gonna tell me what I can and cannot buy, and I don't want to have to tell you that either. But be responsible, because any money that's not in your personal account goes into our account, and that allows us to build our life together. But I also think that a lot of that comes from picking a partner who values the dollar the same way you do.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (44:03)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (44:04)

Like, I'm not saying you have to pick the richest person on earth. You don't have to pick someone who is completely debt free. You do have to pick someone who visualizes the same financial goals as you. Because imagine you and I are married, and I am saving towards our dream home. Every weekend, though, you're out at the club with the boys, popping bottles like, I want to choke you when you get home. Because we were supposed to be saving for that house together, but only I'm the one doing it.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (44:32)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (44:32)

And I think that's really frustrating because I know there's so much resentment that can come from financial decisions, and sometimes relationships fall apart not for infidelity, but for financial infidelity of. You and I are married. I have a secret credit card. I've been racking up credit card debt, and you don't know about it. And then finally, when we go to go apply for something, you're like, hey, Vivian, why is your credit score 500 and we can't get approved for something? And so that happens.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (44:59)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (44:59)

So you want to make sure that like, you know who you are actually getting into bed with.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (45:03)

Yeah. Because involves marriage, having conversations early.

Vivian Tu (45:05)

Marriage is a legal document. Like, this isn't sexy. You're signing paperwork.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (45:10)

Yeah. You're intertwined legally.

Vivian Tu (45:13)

Mm.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (45:14)

Do you think that in order for people to really know, I mean, and how much can you really know? But having conversations early about how people approach money is really important.

Vivian Tu (45:24)

100. Yeah. Simple stuff on the first date about fun stuff of, you know, like, what would you do if you had a hundred thousand dollars to plan a two week vacation? Everything from. If you had enough money to live for the rest of your life, like, what would be your dream job? All the way to, hey, we're actually dating now. Like, how should we split expenses for dates? We're going on vacation together. Who should pay for what? We're moving in together. How much rent can you afford consistently going forward? How are we going to fund furniture? Because we're not bringing our crappy IKEA furniture from like, you know, 10 years ago. These are all conversations you need to be having. And then it's a lot easier to have the, okay, well, if we do get engaged, how are we paying for this wedding? How are we going to buy a house? How are we going to buy a car? What are we going to do with the future? You want to be able to talk to this person about money. Because I know some people who are very like, they'll like reject their partner's attempts at talking about money. But like, do you really want to be in that situation when you have to figure out what daycare costs? Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't want that.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (46:27)

I just feel like you can't get very far in a relationship avoiding money.

Vivian Tu (46:30)

No. Especially now. Back in the day, traditional men could be the sole breadwinner. You know, they're then this is very like 1950s housewife, whatever. But like your wife could stay at home if you made enough money.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (46:44)

A second family.

Vivian Tu (46:45)

Yeah. Secret family. You could have your secret family. But like, that literally doesn't even work anymore. Not only is the secret family no longer affordable, you can barely afford your first one.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (46:56)

Right.

Vivian Tu (46:57)

We require now dual income households for the math to math. And so what, what gives? We got to talk about money now.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (47:04)

Absolutely. And I feel like the more, the earlier you do it, the more normal it is, the more comfortable it gets. Because when you're talking, when you're having open conversations about the small money things, it makes talking about the big money things later less intimidating.

Vivian Tu (47:18)

Yes. 1,000%. I moved into a roach infested apartment. And I had been dating my boyfriend, now husband for 30 days. Moved in with him because I didn't want to sleep in roach hotel. And I had to tell him that I had no money left. I was breaking my lease. It cost four grand for me, four grand for my roommate. So eight grand in total. I did not have any money to pay him for rent. I barely had enough money to like, go on dates. We were planning a vacation together. I was like, this is so off the rails right now. What the hell? I told him everything. And then I was like, that's it. Hope you still like me. And he was like, yeah, I still like you. Here's how much money I make. We had the money conversation 30 days after our first date. 30 days. Can you imagine? I don't recommend that, by the way. That is terrible.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (48:06)

Circumstantial.

Vivian Tu (48:07)

That was deeply circumstantial. If there had not been roaches, I would not have done that. But we never really thought about money because when you are 30 days into a relationship, heart pounding out of my chest, so humiliated that I'm roach girl. Okay. Like super roach girl. Yay. And I have to tell my husband, my boyfriend that, like, nothing was ever embarrassing again.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (48:30)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (48:30)

Like you have that, that foundation of transparency early on.

Vivian Tu (48:33)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (48:34)

Yeah. All month long on the podcast, we've been talking about investing in different forums. I've had episodes about angel investing and episodes that are kind of like an intro to the stock market.

Vivian Tu (48:45)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (48:46)

I would love to talk to you a little bit more about what it means to invest in yourself, both financially and also just in being the version of yourself that you want to be like, that lucky version that we talked about who's aligned with all these different things. Can you tell us a little bit more about what investing in you looks like for you?

Vivian Tu (49:01)

I think investing in you is giving yourself the circumstances and the opportunity to be the person 8 year old you would be really proud of. And so for me, over the past couple years, I've really prioritized my health. I realized that I can't function the way that I need to be functioning. Running a whole business, running around, working probably 80 hours a week if I'm not in my tip top shape. I have also really invested in my team because turns out you can't do everything. The business can't grow if it's just you.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (49:33)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (49:33)

Investing in certain types of software or opportunities. When I first started my podcast, the first season, I think I lost money. Second season I made a Little bit. Third season we're doing a lot better. And fourth season, I'm sure we'll do even better than that. But, like, you have to be willing to spend money to make money. Shout out YG scared. Money don't make money. Yeah, but like, it is something that requires planning. It's not just a gut feeling. Like, yeah, you have those gut feelings. But like, I sat down on paper and I was like, okay, if I put this much into this part of my business, what am I likely to get back? Will it be worth it to hire a new social media manager? Can I get that money back or can I save that time back? And it's all about adding and subtracting. It's a cost benefit analysis. Everything in your life is cost benefit analysis. It's investing in friends. There are some friends that I've had to cut out of my life because I was like, all you do is just suck my energy and it sucks. I hate it. But then there are friends that no matter how broke they are, I'm always happy to cover the dinner bill because after I spend time with them, it literally feels like I have just finished a spa day. I am renewed. I am rejuvenated. And so investing in yourself, both from a physical, emotional therapy, all of that is important. Investing in your relationships to maintain the ones that are really good. Investing in your business by knowing where your strengths are and what you can delegate and just investing in your life. Who do you want to be? What would make you proud as a little kid? I'd like to think that if 8 year old me, and frankly, even more importantly 15 year old me, saw me on the street, she would think, that woman is so cool, she's so beautiful, she's so strong, she's powerful and she is somebody the world pays attention to. And that's all I wanted to be at 15.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (51:34)

I love that so much. I feel like I recently have been in a really similar space of getting back to what my interests were when I was younger and it's been kind of happening organically a little bit with work. Kind of getting back to like, what did I actually want to be when I grew up without all of the outside influence and what that looked like, what did I actually enjoy? How did I. What did I want to wear?

Vivian Tu (51:56)

Do you want to do it or do you want to tell people that you do it? Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (52:00)

Asking those questions and getting back to that authentic version of yourself is so important.

Vivian Tu (52:05)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (52:06)

And I think it also goes back to what we were saying earlier about what it is we truly value.

Vivian Tu (52:10)

I think we can pretend for a very long time, if I'm honest with you. Years, maybe decades even. But at the end of the day, you are who you are, and it's probably who you've always been.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (52:21)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (52:21)

Do you like you?

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (52:23)

Good question.

Vivian Tu (52:24)

You have to.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (52:25)

Yeah.

Vivian Tu (52:25)

Because you're the. Like, what's the. What's the saying? Wherever you go, there you are.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (52:30)

It's true.

Vivian Tu (52:31)

You got to like yourself.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (52:32)

Yep. And it doesn't matter where you move

Sponsor/Ad Voice (52:35)

or what you buy.

Vivian Tu (52:36)

That doesn't change anything.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (52:37)

It doesn't. Not if that core. That core, like, sense of self isn't there.

Vivian Tu (52:42)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (52:42)

Yeah. So, Vivian, I know you also recently had a birthday.

Vivian Tu (52:46)

Yeah. Turned 32.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (52:47)

Turned 32. You had a really great podcast episode where you shared 32 things that you learned by your 32nd birthday. I'm wondering if there was maybe one of those lessons that was like, a favorite nugget that you learned that you want to share with us today.

Vivian Tu (53:03)

So many things. I would say that. And this isn't even one of the 32 nuggets that I shared, but bonus. A bonus. A bonus nugget is just that, like, you are going to have to make sacrifices for your dream. Otherwise, the dream is the thing you have to sacrifice. There have been many moments over the past year where I have been sitting in a hotel room. I'm not with my husband. I'm not with my friends. I'm exhausted after a very long day. And I ask myself, am I happy? Is this what I want? And sometimes I'm exhausted. Sometimes I'm tired. But I'm pretty lucky in that. She said lucky. I'm pretty lucky in that I can usually say, yeah, this is me marching towards that goal. And one day I'm gonna ask myself that same question, and the answer is going to be no. And I'm gonna know that I have to stop doing whatever I'm doing.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (54:04)

That's so good. Like, that's that compass that guides you.

Vivian Tu (54:08)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (54:08)

Oh, my gosh. Okay. Rapid fire. First stock you ever bought.

Vivian Tu (54:12)

Netflix.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (54:13)

Ooh, when was that?

Vivian Tu (54:16)

This was in high school. I actually made a ton of money on it, by the way. This is crazy. I was taking an economics class in my high school, and we had to paper trade on some stocks. And I went home and I was like, hey, dad, can I have, like, a little bit of money to invest in Netflix? He was like, yeah, sure, whatever. Gave me a couple. Couple hundred bucks. And he was like, just so you know, this is it. Like, make those Investments wisely. I did not make them wisely. I invested all of it into Netflix. But it actually ended up paying off really, really well.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (54:45)

That's amazing. Do you remember how much you made?

Vivian Tu (54:47)

I don't know. A couple thousand bucks.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (54:48)

Yeah. That's a pretty good return for a high school. Yeah. First time.

Vivian Tu (54:51)

Yeah.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (54:51)

Yeah. Very cool. A money myth. You wish people would stop believing that

Vivian Tu (54:57)

you have to buy a house to be success. I think, like, with people's changing lifestyles, not everybody wants to have the nuclear two and a half kids, golden retriever named Rover Tire swing out front. Like your happily ever after gets to be whatever you want it to be.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (55:12)

The smartest investment you made in your 20s.

Vivian Tu (55:15)

My husband.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (55:15)

Ooh, that's a good one.

Vivian Tu (55:17)

I trapped that man. Just kidding. It ended up being a reverse trap because I'm the red winner now. No, I'm joking. But he has always been my best friend, my biggest cheerleader. When I am with him, I feel like bad things can't happen to me. And I think that sense of safety and home, I wish that for everybody.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (55:38)

I love that. So good. A financial mistake that taught you the most.

Vivian Tu (55:43)

So when I got my Wall street job, I qualified for some more fancy credit cards, like the metal ones, the ones that have a little heft when you throw them down. I wanted to be cool, so I obviously wanted a metal credit card. I canceled my oldest credit card when I got these new ones, and it shortened my credit history, and my credit score dropped by, like 60 to 80 points. I can't even remember. And it was like, wait, what happened? And I just had to wait because there's nothing I can do. It was just length of account history. And unfortunately, I dinged my own credit

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (56:10)

score without knowing one metric everyone should track financially.

Vivian Tu (56:13)

Ooh, net worth. People don't even know what that means. Net worth is what you own minus what you owe. So your assets minus your liabilities. When people are like, well, I have a really fancy house, it's like, well, how much of that is actually equity that you owe? Own versus your mortgage? Or I have a ton of debt. Great. But also, you have a huge investment portfolio. What does it net out to be?

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (56:40)

What's the biggest mistake people make when they start investing?

Vivian Tu (56:43)

They put money into an investment account, and then they don't buy stuff, and it just sits in cash. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. You actually still have to buy stuff. It's like going to the grocery store with a wallet full of money, taking a hot lap, and then going Home, opening your fridge and being like, where's the food? You didn't buy anything.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (56:56)

What's the easiest way someone can start building generational wealth? Wealth.

Vivian Tu (57:00)

The easiest way to start building generational wealth is to invest. You got to put on your own oxygen mask before you help others. Getting yourself to a financially stable place is step number one. And one of the easiest ways for you to have a two income household as a single person is to invest.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (57:14)

What's a financial habit that instantly tells you someone is going to build wealth

Vivian Tu (57:18)

if they pay themselves first? So if somebody automatically has their direct deposit, take 5, 10% of their paycheck and pop it into savings, or then part of that savings gets popped into an investment account. I'm like, you're building infrastructure so that you've taken all the emotional guesswork out of it. You're going to be fine.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (57:36)

Yeah, automate it. What's the biggest lie people believe about the stock market?

Vivian Tu (57:43)

That it's super duper risky. Because it is just a super duper risky to not invest. Your money's being eaten away by inflation, the cost of living rising. They actually did a Monte Carlo simulation, which is like a statistical simulation. If you had a diversified portfolio held over 40 years, there's like a 99.9 chance that you would keep your principal, meaning the money you initially invested you would not lose. However, there was a 97 chance that you would make a lot of money. So like those odds are pretty damn good.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (58:19)

Yeah, you don't have those odds with it sitting in a bank account.

Vivian Tu (58:22)

Certainly not. Certainly opposite.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (58:24)

If someone's goal is generational wealth, what's the first thing they should stop doing?

Vivian Tu (58:29)

The first thing they should stop doing is trying to just cut expenses out of their life. They need to think about growing more. The best advice my mentor ever gave me was you can only save as much as you earn, but you can always earn more money. We, as women are told, we're shopaholics, that we are irresponsible with money. No, you're fine, you can cut back. That'll help with your budget. But the most important thing is to ask for that raise every year.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (58:56)

What's the most overrated financial goal people chase?

Vivian Tu (59:00)

I think just having a lot of money in the bank because frankly, if it's just sitting in a savings account or checking account, it's not doing anything for you. But people like to see that number big.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (59:08)

What's a financial flex that actually impresses

Vivian Tu (59:10)

you when people can take like a Tuesday afternoon at 2pm off because it means that they're in charge of their schedule. It means that money is not the only thing factoring into their decision making. And it really just means that like they are free from the confines of whatever they would have to do. They have flexibility.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (59:29)

So, so good.

Vivian Tu (59:30)

I'm not there yet.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (59:31)

Me neither. But I aspire.

Vivian Tu (59:33)

Yeah, I aspire for sure.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (59:35)

Vivian, thank you so much for joining me. You were closing out our investing series.

Vivian Tu (59:39)

I love it.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (59:40)

I feel like that's the perfect note to end on.

Vivian Tu (59:41)

Yeah. Thank you so much for me.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (59:43)

Definitely. Please let the Clovers know where they can find you if they're not already following along.

Vivian Tu (59:46)

You guys can find me as your rich BFF across all social media and you can check out my book well Endowed. Wherever you get your books, wherever you get your ebooks audiobooks, you can find it everywhere. Well Endowed.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (59:58)

Amazing. And we'll have all of that linked in the show notes and description as well.

Vivian Tu (60:01)

Amazing.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (60:01)

Thank you all for tuning in to this month's Lucky Girls Invest series. I hope you really enjoyed the episodes we had all month long talking about the various different ways you can invest in your money and in yourself. And I will be excited to come back at you next Tuesday with a new episode. If you're not already subscribed to she's so Lucky, make sure you subscribe on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple. Wherever it is that you like to be, I'm there and I can meet you there. And I'll see you next Tuesday with a new episode.

Vivian Tu (60:26)

Bye guys.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (60:33)

Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode episode of she's so Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show. Notes for resources, links and discount codes. And if you are really feeling lucky, we would appreciate your rating and your review. It really helps us be able to improve the show to get great guests and to understand what you want to hear more of. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week.

Host of She's So Lucky Podcast (61:02)

Foreign.

Dear Media Event Announcer (61:09)

Dear Media By Night is coming to NYC on May 16th. Join us live at Webster hall for cocktails, bites and fun surprises and then be prepared to LOL all night long with us as your favorite Dear Media hosts take the stage. Hosted by Taylor Strecker and featuring Hot Mic unhinged versions of Good Guys the Toast and not for Skinny But Not Fat Live with Ben Safer, Josh Peck, Claudia and Jackie Oshrey, and Amanda Hirsch, it'll feel like your favorite Internet group chat brought to life. Bring your friends, grab a drink and come hang with us. IRL head to dearmedia.com events for tickets and more info.

Vivian Tu (61:45)

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.