← She's So Lucky
She's So Lucky
Women Are Expected to Do It All — What Happens When We Stop? with Nina Westbrook
01:02:21
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- [00:01]
A
The following podcast is a dear media production. Cooler days call for layers that last. And Quince is my go to for quality essentials that feel cozy, look refined, and won't blow your budget. I'm talking $50 Mongolian cashmere denim that actually fits and designer quality outerwear for a fraction of the price. The quality is so good you'll wonder why you never paid more. Find your fall staples at quince. Go to quince.com balanceless for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. They're now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com balance less to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com balanced less welcome back to she's so Lucky. My name is Les.
- [01:07]
B
I am your host and I appreciate you tuning in.
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A
And on this show we talk all about what it means to create our own luck.
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B
And I'm very excited to sit down with today's guest. Licensed marriage and family therapist, founder of the Nebby app, host of the Detail podcast, Mom Wife.
- [01:27]
A
Please join me in welcoming Nina Westbrook to the podcast.
- [01:31]
B
Hello.
- [01:32]
C
Really great. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
- [01:36]
B
Thank you for joining me. I'm so excited to have you. I actually interviewing therapists is one of my favorite things to do because I think that the work that y' all do is so important in terms of helping us better understand ourselves, helping us better relate to one another. And even sometimes as someone who has a podcast and has content that leans more wellness.
- [02:01]
C
Yes.
- [02:02]
B
I am always very clear with my audience of like, I am not a licensed professional. And so oftentimes I will sometimes have people come to me or want advice about things or want my perspective about things. And I'm like, it would not be helpful to you for me to give you my opinion on this. Or I'm constantly encouraging them to talk to either a professional, someone who really knows them, who they can really trust, because I do think that that's super important. So I'm excited to chat with you today about the work you do.
- [02:30]
C
Yeah, let's do it. I'm excited.
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B
Ye so one of the things that I wanted to start with was I actually do have some themes of types of things that I have been asked over the past few months from my audience that I would love to get.
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A
Your take as a therapist.
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B
And these are like, they're more light, kind of fun things. Nothing, nothing that's too crazy. But I would love to Start with picking a therapist's brain about some of the things that our community is currently going through.
- [02:56]
C
Oh, my gosh. There's so many things.
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B
So many things. Yes. So the first one. First scenario that we had was someone's best friend just got engaged to someone who they think isn't right for her. What's your take as a therapist of.
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A
How they approach that situation? Should they say something? What should they say?
- [03:17]
B
How do they support their friend in that scenario?
- [03:20]
C
Wow, a best friend. I think that if this is your best friend, then I don't want to assume, but I think it's likely that conversations have probably been had about this person and that relationship in the past. I do think that there's a fine line between kind of meddling in someone else's relationship. But at the same time, when we see people we love going through something that we don't foresee working out well, we obviously want to warn them. Right. We want to kind of pick their brain and understand what their intentions are. And I think that there's a very pretty demure way that you can address this type of scenario without being a bit pushy or judgmental. But what I would do is potentially ask questions that help you better understand your friend and. And what they're looking to get out of the relationship and how the other person makes them feel. And within that kind of conversation, if something comes up that makes sense, then it might make you feel more comfortable about the decisions that they're making to marry that person. And if some. And maybe it also offers an opportunity for your friend to ask for your opinions or your thoughts or advice. And if you can have. If they can feel like they can trust you, and they feel like you're coming from a good place. And I think that it's always really hard, and that's a really fine line. And it really just depends on your relationship dynamic. Is this something that you guys naturally do comfortably? Or if it's something that you gotta put a little bit more intention around and how you address those things, it really varies. But just being a good listener and being gentle is probably gonna get you a really long way. So I would say just approach with caution and kindness.
- [05:28]
B
I appreciate the way that you described that because it's. It sounds like really making sure that you're not putting the friend in a position to get defensive. It can be very easy for people to get defensive and almost, like, shut you out in that instance. And.
- [05:42]
C
And then in friendship, you know, we want to feel safe. Right. And you want your friend to feel safe enough to come to you when something does come up, that they finally realize. But if you give them the impression that you don't like their partner or that you think the relationship is not going to work, then they're less likely to feel comfortable opening up to you in the future. So you want to keep that line of communication open by nurturing their feelings and being supportive and. And just doing the best to support your friend and keeping that safe space. Because that's what friends are for. Right.
- [06:19]
B
Thank you.
- [06:19]
A
That was super helpful.
- [06:22]
B
We have another one. This one is a little bit more dating focused. Someone mentioned been dating for six months. Great chemistry, inconsistent effort. What do I do with that?
- [06:35]
C
I think that six months is a good. For me, I'm. The more communication, the better, always. So if I'm going into any dating situation, I want to talk about, you know, what your intentions are over the next year or two. Like, are we dating to hang out and stay in this space, or are we dating to get to know each other and see if we. At some point we want to take this relationship to the next level? Right. So that's number one for me. I'm always going to figure out what the intentions are from the beginning. It doesn't have to be the scary, like, are we going to get married on date number two. That might be a little aggressive. However, going into something with clear expectations and ideas about what you're looking for in your dating experience, which I think is, you know, it's. You don't have to be in a relationship to have intentions. Right. So that's a good step. And then by six months, I think you should be able to have a conversation and figure out where you are now is still working for both of you. And if it's not working for both of you, then there has to be a conversation of, how can we make this work for both of us? Is this something that we want to continue to pursue, or is this about all we are going to get from this connection? And then it's up to you to decide how to move forward after that.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I think that intentionality piece is so important because I think that that really lays the foundation for anything moving beyond that.
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C
It really does. And I think a lot of times people are afraid to be vulnerable and share those things up front. But when you really think about it when you are dating, what kind of information do you want from the person that you're dating? Do you want honesty? Do you want them to be vulnerable with you? And if the questions, the answers to those questions are. Yes. Then you have to be able to reciprocate that. Right. So it's kind of, you know, you're going to attract the things that you are giving. So open, honest communication is something you have to be able to give in order to receive it back or expect that you're going to receive that back at some point.
- [08:49]
A
Yeah.
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B
And is there a way that you recommend people facilitate those conversations or ask those questions in a way that don't feel kind of job interviewee?
- [08:59]
C
Of course. I think if. If in this particular situation, even suggesting having a conversation and feeling out, well, how are you feeling about our relationship? I think a good way to start is to gauge how the other person is feeling. Right. So they understand that this is a conversation that they are allowed to have feelings, emotions, and contribute to as well. And it feels a little less like a job interview. Right. If you are actually asking and inquiring someone else's feelings and emotions, it lets them know that how they think and feel is important too. And so leading with that, I think is great. And then sharing how you feel and sharing a compliment. You know, I really enjoy spending time with you. I would love to spend more time with you because I really see that this could go somewhere, and I feel like we have a lot of good chemistry. So is that a possibility? I think rather than, you know, we've been doing this for six months now, and I feel like you're not really committing and you're kind of treating me like, you know, one day we're on, one day we're off. Because that feels more accusatory. Right. So saying how you feel and making a request based on your needs, I think is a very appropriate way to have a conversation like that.
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B
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. And similar to the first scenario, it is almost kind of disarming or not putting that person in a position where they need to be defensive.
- [10:27]
C
Exactly. We always want to. I mean, kindness goes a long way. And at the end of the day, when we're dating in relationships, people just want to be heard. They want to be understood, and they want to be thought about. Right. So if you can share ways to be thoughtful and share ways to be kind and lead with that, then you're always going to get a better result than coming in with the questions. And maybe that's when people start to put their guard up when they feel like they're on the defense or when.
- [10:57]
B
It'S like accusatory of like, here's what you're not doing.
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C
Exactly. Okay. Less about what your. Your partner's not doing and more about what they're doing well and what you want more of.
- [11:07]
B
That's really good. Yeah, I like that.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Okay, so our last therapist take lightning round question. Someone who feels like the fear of being cringe is keeping them from exploring and sharing their creative work. This is a big one.
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C
That's a really tough one because this has been going on for quite some time. I. It looks a little different now, especially with social media, because the lens and what people think, the amount of people that can see them or that are watching them is so much greater. Right. But before, it used to be like, that kid is in school. That kid looks like they're trying too hard or they're doing the most right. And nobody wants to be. I feel like that is our version or my version. I don't know how old you are. I'm probably older than you. That. But that was our version of cringe. Right. And I think that at the end of the day, it's the most difficult and challenging thing to be authentically yourself because you're being vulnerable and you're making yourself susceptible to criticism through social media because everyone can see what you're doing. Right. But there's not a single person who has found huge success in whatever it is that they do that they love that hasn't had to put themselves in vulnerable positions to get there. So if you are willing to risk your goals and your dreams over what other people might think or feel about you, and then that is something that you will have to live with. But if you really want to achieve what you want to achieve, your people are going to be out there. People that respect what you do, who admire what you do and who you are. They're going to be out there, and you won't be able to find them unless you try. Right. Unless you put yourself out there. The sooner you can start doing that, the happier you'll be.
- [13:05]
B
Oh, absolutely. And I think that there's also so much freedom and just doing the things that we want to do and even having those moments where something may be cringe or maybe we are afraid of what someone thinks, or even getting a comment where somebody is judging or whatever, and then realizing I'm okay or actually me being able to express myself or do this thing that I really wanted to do outweighs, you know, this judgment that I may have gotten. Like, those little moments of reinforcement can be so freeing.
- [13:32]
C
Exactly. And I love that you're using examples of reinforcement like from yourself, because there's also gonna be positive reinforcement that is external. So you get both internal and external positive reinforcement, and you get that from doing the. That you love. But what you have to be careful of is who you're receiving that criticism from. And if this person is someone that you trust is. Has your best interest. Right. Which can't be strangers online, people that you don't know. So taking all of that into account, it's. Is your dream? Is your goal? Is being or achieving being your authentic self worth the sacrifice of maybe a cringe moment or two?
- [14:19]
A
It's such a good question.
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B
And it also. Even when I think about being on the other end, where maybe giving. I don't want to say criticism, but feedback that may be constructive. It reminds me of a boss that I had at an old job. She used to always say, be hard on issues and soft on people in the sense of if there's something that you are giving feedback on or critiquing, maybe a behavior or maybe, you know, a specific thing, but not making it the identity of the person. And I think that that can also be really helpful for. Okay, if someone's giving me this criticism or this feedback, is it about maybe something specific that I can take that's constructive, but that doesn't have to be my identity? Or if I'm giving that feedback, how can I make it about something that is actionable without again assigning it to that person's identity?
- [15:07]
C
Exactly. I like to speak to problems in a way that we're externalizing these things, right. So they're not about who we are. And they're not. We're not in the same bucket. There's the actress or the actor or the performer or whatever it is that you are passionate about. And there is the performance. Right. The other thing is being able to take constructive criticism. I'm like, I'm a therapist, and I literally don't enjoy telling anyone what they should be doing. I don't believe in that. I think that people should do whatever they. Whatever makes them happy as long as it's safe for themselves and for others. So I have. I'm really the worst person to ask. Because if you like it, I love it. Always.
- [15:56]
B
Yeah. Honestly, I often feel similar too. And I mean, even like having an audience and having them ask for advice for things. And I'm like, well, if it's not.
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A
Putting you or anybody in harm's way.
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C
I mean, how do you feel?
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B
Yeah, yeah. I'm like, is that what you want?
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A
Or if it doesn't work out, will you be disappointed.
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B
Like, I don't know, try it and then if not, pivot or do something else.
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C
Right, exactly.
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B
Well, thank you so much for that. That was super helpful because I feel like I get asked those questions about those things all the time and I'm.
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A
Like, yeah, I don't know what to tell people.
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B
So yeah, I'm glad we could start off there.
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C
But it's good though, because whatever your saying, people really feel drawn to that and they trust your criticisms and you know, your advice and enough to ask you. So that's wonderful.
- [16:44]
A
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- [18:47]
B
I've been there.
- [18:48]
A
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- [20:17]
B
So something that I also love to talk to my guests about is about lucky moments. Cause the show is she's so lucky. And the way that we frame luck on this show isn't necessarily this idea that good things just like pop out of the sky and happen.
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A
Now that can happen.
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B
I mean, we can definitely have moments of alignment where like great things happen and we're happy to receive them. And there's also a lot of things that we do that are very intentional that can help us position ourselves to be more lucky. And so those are the different kind of lenses that we look at luck through. So I'm curious the last time you felt lucky and if it was a moment that you felt like, yeah, I took action to align for this to happen.
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C
I'm going to start by saying that I feel lucky all the time. And I like what you said about taking action and intention behind that and then like things coming to fruition for you when you do that. I think that for me, I kind of do my best to be good to people and to listen to, I don't know, I'm kind of led by, I don't know, faith. And so I found that anytime I'm doing the things that I'm supposed to do and living my life according to my Faith. I just. Everything works out. My mom, she is like the biggest prayer warrior over me and my family. And I think because of her, I've just been really lucky. I think that when it's the right time for me to make a move in business, there's always something that presents itself right. Even when I'm feeling frustrated or uncertainty is kind of starting to set in. There's like a clear way forward and move forward that presents itself right. Even when I'm feeling frustrated as a mother and my kids are not really thriving and I'm overwhelmed and we're all stressed out and dysregulated as a unit, then my husband can step in and, you know, just take over and be and help to emotionally regulate all of us. And by giving me the space that I need to do what I need to recover for myself and also taking the kids to have whatever they need for themselves. So I feel lucky in moments like that. I live a very interesting life. It's a lot of organized chaos for someone who likes things to be pretty orderly. I've had to learn it and grow to be more open to that organized chaos. And every like, I just somehow keep coming up with new friends and people to join me on this adventure that I can genuinely trust and genuinely want well for me and for my family. So I just feel lucky all the time.
- [23:25]
B
I actually really love that answer because it feels like an embodiment and also like looking for the opportunities to see luck in everyday moments. You also just said something really interesting about learning to kind of embrace the organized chaos. And I know that that is something that can be really challenging, I think, especially for a lot of women. Have you felt like you've needed to kind of lean into surrender a bit to get to that point of being okay with organized chaos?
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C
Absolutely. A good friend of mine actually told me about this idea of having expectations and how it was going to lead me down a very dark path. And since then, I try to plan and, you know, because without action, you are not setting yourself up for success. Right. And for those moments of opportunity. But I just try to plan and prepare as best I can. But I also have the knowledge and the wisdom to understand that not everything is going to go according to plan. So when it doesn't, I'm not surprised. Right. I'm not shocked. It's not gonna throw me off. If I think that everything was gonna be perfect all the time, I would be disappointed a lot. Right. So I think I'm more of a solution focused problem solver. When Something comes up, I can adjust quickly. And so when I say organized chaos, I feel like in order to have the structure that my family life needs, we have to be organized. Though it's a little chaotic at times. It's hard not to have chaos when you have three small children and live the lifestyles that both my husband and I live. So we keep everything around us really solid and our support system really solid.
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B
Yeah. So having that foundation, but also a sense of agility, being able to pivot, be flexible.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And as you look to create structure for your family, you know, how do you go about doing that? Is it you identify maybe different needs that happen or, you know, we were talking before we started recording that it's the first day of school for your kids. So now that they're in school, I'm sure that what structure looks like for them is different than maybe it was a few years ago before they started school. How do you go about kind of adjusting the structure that your family needs?
- [25:53]
C
Well, I mean, for the kids, I kind of want to say it's simple because the structure for them just looks like having a schedule and a routine. It means that they wake up and they eat breakfast at the same time every day. It means that they're going to see a lot of the same people throughout the day that they're very comfortable with. They're going to eat lunch. We have, like, this thing at our house called a hearth board. I think it's called that. And essentially you can put the kid's routine in there and they can tick everything off that they do every single day. And it also has their calendar and their schedule on it so they can go on and see what's planned for them. It's kind of like in school, the first thing that children often do when they get to class, young children, is look at the schedule for the day. Right. Because it helps to give them some type of visualization and understanding of what's to come. Because we wanna know what's happening in the future. Duh. Like, we don't want chaos and we don't want uncertainty. And so structuring their lives in that way is important for us. And making sure they have enough sleep, even when we're traveling, and making sure that one of us is home or one of our family members is home with them. And so they always have that sense of family with them. That's what it looks like, the kids, for us as adults, it looks like just making sure that we're being intentional about how we're spending our Time. And we are dropping our kids off at school, and even though we are driving separately and there's no parking, but we both need to be there, and we want to go meet their teachers, and we kind of just schedule and plan our lives as family together, and then we do our things individually as well. But it also means taking care of yourself and getting sleep and eating nutritious foods and just, you know, spending time with family and friends. Refill your cup and taking time for yourself. All of those things we build into our routine, and that helps us to have structure. Yeah.
- [28:04]
B
I'm realizing, even as an adult, that so many of my needs are so similar to what they were as a kid. Like, when I think about my childhood, you know, I had a very specific night routine where it was like, you know, I would take a bath, and.
- [28:18]
A
Then my mom would read me a.
- [28:19]
B
Story, and I knew when bedtime was, and I'm like, oh, I'm a big kid version of that. Actually, my needs are very similar where. But now I'm creating that structure for myself. And I think in young adulthood, there is this tendency to be like, I.
- [28:34]
A
Have free will now.
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B
I can do what I want.
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C
And then you get a little bit.
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B
Older and you're like, oh, actually, I need some of that structure back. And actually going to bed early sounds really good, even though I used to fight it.
- [28:44]
C
Exactly. As humans, we're creatures of habit, right. And a lot of the time when we are creating chaotic situations for ourselves, it's because that's what we maybe experience as children. We didn't learn to have structure, and the environment didn't feel safe. We didn't know what was gonna come and what the day was gonna look like all the time. Right. So as we go into adulthoods, old habits die hard, and we kind of create that cycle of chaos again. And then until we learn, hey, this is not working well for me. And there's some tools and routines that I need to incorporate in order to feel better and to be mentally and physically. Well, some of us, like you, are really fortunate to have that from a very early age and build those habits quite young. And some of us are relearning them and learning how to incorporate them as we get older. But either we're creatures of habit and structure and routine is good for everyone, not just children.
- [29:48]
A
Absolutely. For sure.
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B
You know, you've had a really busy year, and a lot of exciting things happen. I'm curious how you would describe this season of life that you're in currently, and also how you're pouring back into yourself and finding that sense of kind of safety and stillness within yourself during such a busy time.
- [30:07]
C
It's been a really crazy year for me. My husband was living in another state. I was kind of the primary. Not kind of. I was definitely the primary parent, even though he's as helpful as one can be from another location. And I wasn't getting a lot of sleep. I was working a lot. My business partners, my co founder lives in Sydney, Australia. So the timing of our calls were tricky. It was a really rough year. And I think the key word that you just used is this idea of seasons, right? And so that was a really challenging season for me. But throughout that whole process of building the app, which we were working on for about 18 months before we were able to actually launch and doing all the mom duties and also still keeping up everything else that I've been doing foundation wise and some of my other business endeavors. I think that, that I definitely got to a point where I was feeling that burnout creeping in, right? And it's so funny because I'm creating this mental wellness app, right? And all the while I'm struggling to find those moments. September of last year, I had a neck injury that kind of took me out of commission for quite some time. The recovery was very strenuous. The lesson I learned from that is I need to take care of my body. And I've been in physical therapy ever since because it's still very fragile. So that was another thing that I was dealing with a lot of pain, but I had committed myself to working out. I was just doing all of these things to make sure I find those small moments to take care of myself. The whole time I was telling myself, when this season's over, I'm gonna just have the best time of my life. I'm gonna have. I had so much to look forward to, which was my summer, essentially. I was outside all summer. I really didn't do too much. I've had an incredible team that was back me up and keep everything going. While I was in the midst of an app launch, I was still outside on vacation taking care of myself, only doing the things that I wanted to do because I think I'm still in this recovery mode from that season of my life, right? So this is my recovery fun season where I'm not as tired and overwhelmed. I have more time with my kids. We get to do more activities and connect and snuggle. And so I am just happy that I'm in this season of pouring into my children and my family and my relationship and just enjoying the sacrifice and the difficult times and all the effort and energy that went into building the app that last season. So it's a good. And I don't know when I'm gonna be exiting this season, but for now, this is where I'm at.
- [33:09]
B
I love the framing of those things, being around seasons and appreciated that you described that season that was. You were burnt out and it was very strenuous. You're dealing with an injury and all of these things and then the other side of it, because when we're in the thick of it, it feels like it's going to be forever. We're like, I don't know how much longer I can take this. It feels like it's never ending. And then when we get to the other side of it, it's like, oh, okay, I'm relieved. Or this is what I was preparing for. This is what I now have relief from. And it's always just so helpful to remember that, that none of the states that we're in are permanent. And that also on the flip side, doesn't mean that when we're in a more easeful season that we're waiting for the other shoe to drop. But it's just, it's allowing there to be a little bit of breathing room and remembering that. That nothing is permanent.
- [33:56]
C
Right. And I think that one of the key parts of being in that really tough season is knowing when to reach out for support and help and when you can rely on your support system to help you because that's the time you need it the most. Right. And I was so fortunate to have so many people helping me. When I couldn't drive for months, my little brother was picking my kids up and driving us around like my little chauffeur doing school drop offs and pickups and my kids were helping me put my socks on. And like, it just was such a team effort. My nanny was bringing me, you know, food to my bed and it was a really big joint effort and it was really a good lesson for me. And I felt so lucky to have so many people that I know can kind of pick up the slack when I can't give it. And so that was really good. And just being able to reach out for support in those times is really important.
- [35:03]
B
Yeah, definitely. I would also love to talk a bit more about holding various identities. Right. Which I think everybody does in some respects. We all, whether it's like we have this identity of who we are at work and then maybe we're a daughter, maybe we're a mom, Maybe we're a partner, a friend, a sister, whatever. Also going through those seasons where maybe one of those things is a bigger focus than the other and what that looks like and what that feels like. If you have a season where it's like, I have this vision for this app that I want to bring into the world, and this is taking up more of my space and what that looks like versus maybe you have a season where motherhood is demanding more of you, how you navigate those different shifts in your identities.
- [35:50]
C
It's not easy. I mean, I'm lucky to have an amazing partner in life, and I don't take that for granted, because I know it's easy to be like, oh, my husband just picks up the slack when I don't have it, because I know a lot of people don't have that same type of relationship dynamic. So in that way, I feel lucky. Like you said, there are gonna be seasons where my kids need a little bit more of my time and support, which I think I'm rolling into as we're starting school. And also the holidays. Oh, my gosh, so many holidays. Like, Halloween is basically like Christmas for children. It's insane. So, like, we have that, and then we have my girls birthdays are in November. My husband's birthday's also in November, and we have Thanksgiving, and then we have Christmas, and we have New Year's, and then my birthday's in January. So it's gonna be a crazy few months for me. Mentally. I'm prepared for that every year. And I know what to expect. Talking to my kids and talking to my husband and bringing them along the journey with me. It's so weird. For the longest time, my kids had no idea what I did for work. They thought I was just hanging out and so bringing them along the journey with me. Finally, as we've been building the app, we use the app together, and they love the app, and they always are asking, mommy, your app, Is it out yet? What's going on with your app? Can I check in? And they're very, very sweet and cute about it. So I think that bringing them along the journey has been really good because they know and can conceptualize where I'm at and why I'm doing the things that I'm doing and why mommy's not so available right now. And I think the same thing goes with my husband. Just including him in conversations and being open and being honest about how I'm feeling. And, you know, I'm exhausted and I really can't do this. I need you to step in here and there so that I can. I know we haven't done date night and whatever, but we're gonna do it at this time. And I think just being honest and open about my journey and I think it's so important to be able to juggle. I don't wanna say balance, because it's never balanced. Cause there's always a season. Right. Because at some point, if one of my kids is not okay, then everything stops. And we have to make sure we can get that situation handled and taken care of. And I think that goes for any part of my life because I think friends, family, and relationships are the most important thing. So just being able to check in and make sure everything is good, like, oh, you got. You're good. Okay, well, I'm gonna keep grinding over here. Call me if you need me. That's really big for me. And knowing I have their love and support and it allows me to have that freedom to pursue things outside of them.
- [38:48]
B
Yeah, and also allowing them to see your full humanity. Because I think sometimes as children or even as partners, if they have, you know, a partner who has a wife or whatever, women often make so much happen for the people in their lives that it can be easy for the people that we're supporting to take that for granted or to think things just happen or this is just mom or. And it's like you have that moment where you realize, oh, my mom is a person. Actually, she's not just my mom. That's a huge part of who she is. But she's also a whole person who has her own aspirations and her own feelings and her own things that she's overcoming. And I think the more that we let our loved ones see our full humanity, I think the better for everybody.
- [39:38]
C
It is totally better for everyone. And it also helps our children build compassion. Because I don't want to be on a pedestal, because I know, you know, I do my best as a parent, but you'll. They'll be pissed off about something later in life, I'm sure. I think that bringing them with me along the journey and like you said, showing them my full. Like, I'm a human, I'm a person. I have weaknesses and struggles. I cry sometimes. I need your help. Like, I'm relying on you just as much as you're relying on me sometimes. Probably not. That's a little aggressive for the children. But, like, if I say my mommy's neck is hurting, like, they'll. Can you want me to give you a massage and they'll give me a massage with their little baby hands like they want to take care of me and they know that I'm not feeling well, right? And so they'll maybe be a little bit nicer to me that night or something like that. But it's good to have everyone feel connected Foreign.
- [40:38]
A
I've been in this phase of just wanting to make things easier. If something feels high maintenance or overly complicated, I'm just not doing it. And that's what made me reach for Groons. It's a gummy pack, one a day, no drama, that covers your bases with vitamins, minerals, whole food, nutrients and prebiotic fiber. You don't need 10 different bottles of a bunch of different things, just one simple really good tasting ST step. Each pack has over 20 vitamins and minerals, 60 plant based ingredients and 6 grams of prebiotic fiber, which for context is three times more than you find in your average greens powder and more than 2 cups of broccoli put in gummy form that you actually want to eat. They're vegan, gluten free, nut free, dairy free and contain no artificial colors or flavors so you're not getting anything weird, just the good stuff. Plus, because they're gummies, your body absorbs the nutrients easier and that's what matters. You're actually getting the benefit. Personally, I've been taking Groons for a few months and I'm so much more consistent than I've been with other supplements. Probably because it doesn't feel like a chore. It's easy, it tastes good and I actually look forward to taking my Groons. So if your wellness routine could use a reset or a little simplifying, start here. Go to Groons Co and use the code Lucky at checkout for up to 52% off your first order. That's G R U N S CO and use the code lucky for up to 52% off. So lately I've been asking myself a very simple question. When stress hits, what if I didn't just power through? What if I actually supported my nervous system instead of bulldozing through another to do list? And that mindset shift is what led me to mood.com they're an online cannabis company doing things completely differently from how they source to how they formulate. Mood has a full line of functional gummies made with 100% federally legal THC blends and they ship directly to your door, discreetly and legally. And when I say they have a Gummy for everything, I mean it. If you need sleep. The sleepy time gummies are no joke. I'm out in 15 minutes with no grogging and no next day fog. Or if you need a little bit of a vibe shift, Epic euphoria has become my go to when everything and everyone is doing too much and I just need to pause and calm down. What makes Mood different is how they pair THC and other cannabinoids with herbs and adaptogens so you get really targeted effects. You're not just guessing. And honestly, you're not going to find this kind of formula at a dispensary. There's something for every need, from mental clarity to immune support, PMS to menopause, even sexual arousal. And it's all made from cannabis grown on small family owned American farms. No pesticides and no sketchy stuff. And yes they ship to most states plus they back it all with a 100 day satisfaction guarantee. So if you're looking for a better way to handle life's chaos or just want to sleep through the night, head to mood.com and use promo code LUCKY. You'll get 20 off your first order. That's mood.com promo code LUCKY Quince is one of those brands that I recommend constantly because I use something from Quince almost every day. And I don't just recommend them for clothes. I originally went to them for their sweaters because their 50 Mongolian cashmere is.
- [44:12]
B
Basically famous at this point.
- [44:13]
A
It's definitely doing numbers in my closet.
- [44:15]
B
Every fall and winter.
- [44:17]
A
It's soft, warm and holds up beautifully without that luxury price tag that makes you second guess your life choices. But what really surprised me is how good their home section is. I've been in the process of redoing a few spaces in my apartment. Nothing too drastic, just upgrading the little things. And Quince has been my go to. Their linen bedding is so breathable and comfortable and their towels and bathroom pieces feel like I'm in a boutique hotel. And here's the thing, none of it feels trendy or like you'll be over it the next season. These are timeless staples. Whether it's in your closet or your space. Quince makes it easy to invest in quality pieces that feel elevated, not overpriced. That's because they partner directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're getting luxury quality at about half the price of similar brands, which I know I love. Find your fall staples at quince. Go to quince.com balance less for free shipping on your order and 36065 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com balance less to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com balanced less.
- [45:36]
B
Something that I think about for women, and I mean as a. I'm. I guess I'm speaking from a millennial perspective in feeling grateful on one hand that I think women our age have more options than ever in terms of the lives we're able to lead and the autonomy that we have and the things that we're able to do. And sometimes I also wonder if with more options, whether that is from career, whether that's who we want to live, how we want to partner, if we want to be parents, if we don't, what that looks like with more options, does that also come with more pressure? Does it come with more expectations and what that looks like?
- [46:23]
C
That's a really great question. And you're right. I think my friend Melody Asani said that we, for the first time as women are the pickers. And it sounds a little crazy when there's so many things that are happening right now in our country that could be seen as the opposite of that, but when you really take a step back and look, like you said, the opportunities that we have and the choices and who we wanna be with and how we wanna partner and whether we wanna have children or whether we don't, this is definitely women are the pickers. And I think that as far as pressure goes, it just depends. You know, there are always gonna be pressures and expectations. Right? But in my family, we don't care about other people's expectations. We don't even, like I said, I don't even put expectations for myself. And so it's easy to be able to differentiate between what makes me happy versus what is going to quiet or the group or the peanut gallery or what's going to make other people feel comfortable. And, and for a long time, like, this is something I had to like learn and grow into. And I've been practicing therapy for many years, since I was almost like 20 years old. So it's not that I didn't understand and know these things, but putting it into practice took a lot of practice. Right. I think there's this point that we reach when we decide that we just want to choose ourself first. It's not a selfish decision, it's a great decision because we are expected by a lot of other people to be any and everything for everyone else. But how can we do that if we are not? Well, Right. If we are not healthy, if we're not rested, if we're not happy, in order to be the best that we can be for other people, we have to be the best that we can be for ourselves. So we have to choose us first. People are always gonna have opinions. We're living in the age of social media, which has contributed to a lot of those pressures and those ideas. But I think that as long as you're choosing yourself first and making decisions based on what makes you happy, it's kind of sink or swim. Pick them or pick yourself. And for me, every time I'm gonna pick me.
- [48:54]
B
So yeah. And I think with picking ourselves, there's so much that can come with that, because I do think for a lot of us, we didn't have that modeled where women were very much expected to be in constant servitude to everyone. You know, when I think about older women in my family and my grandmothers and how they lived their lives, like they put themselves last almost out of necessity because so many people were relying on them. And then I think at times when we have moments where we put ourselves first, it's almost jarring. It can be jarring for the people in our lives or communities or what's expected of us, because there's almost this feeling that if we are putting ourselves first or if we're choosing ourselves, then that's going to be at the disadvantage of someone else. It's actually the opposite. Because when we're able to actually pour into ourselves and be whole people, like a rising tide lifts all boats. But that knee jerk reaction is when we're seen as choosing ourselves, that other people feel like something is being taken from them.
- [49:57]
C
You're absolutely right. We're reeducating ourselves to choose ourselves first. And so it is a shock to the system, for our system, our individual systems, because they're like, wait a minute, this feels different. Because when she does this, then maybe that means I have to do this differently. So because we wear so many hats and we have our hands in so many different things, one change, whether it be good or bad, that happens to ourselves, it trickles down to everyone else. And this is an important lesson that I learned when I got hurt. I was not able to be everything for everyone in those moments, but everyone still survived. The kids still ate, they still went to school. My husband still did all the things he needed to do to be happy, and everything worked out. So it was a huge lesson for me, like, hey, I gotta do more things for myself, because these people are Gonna be fine.
- [50:58]
B
Everybody realizes how capable they are.
- [51:00]
C
Everybody realizes how capable they are. And not that me going down needed to be a lesson to them, because, like I said, I have a pretty supportive group of people. But we have to teach other people how to teach, how to treat us right. So if we're treating ourselves with kindness and love and we are being intentional about how we spend our time and taking moments for ourselves, then other people will learn to treat us the same way. And if they can't learn to treat us the way that we want to be treated and respect our time and our want and need to do things for ourselves and put ourselves first at times, if not all the time, then that's something to reevaluate. There are conversations that have to be had, and other people might have to feel a little bit uncomfortable with your choices, but that is not a result or an indicator that you're not making the right choice. It just is something that forces other people to grow as well, which is. Could be a good thing, actually.
- [52:06]
B
Yeah, good. But also hard in the. Those conversations are hard.
- [52:10]
C
They are. In the moment, they are hard. And I think that there are ways to ease and trickle into those conversations. And, you know, I think any drastic change could be jarring for a lot of people. But there are small ways to implement new concepts or new dynamics into any relationship or any household. And being on the same page about that is really important.
- [52:36]
B
Yeah. How do you recommend someone navigate? Maybe they're. They're having this experience where they feel like a dynamic isn't working, working. They're trying to have a conversation with another person of either, hey, I need to prioritize myself, or there is something here that's. That's not working and they're experiencing resistance.
- [52:54]
C
I think that it requires a lot of letting go. Number one, because if you're gonna make a choice, you kind of have to make that choice and then see where the chips fall. Something has to give. And right now, for me, I think that this means I might need a night off every night from cooking dinner. And I need to spend that time doing something that's gonna refresh me. And I think that that is a really good approach. You always wanna make it about you and how you're feeling and less about what someone else is doing and how that's making you feel. Because at the end of the day, you can also choose yourself in this kind of situation. And so if that is something that you're not able to establish on your own, I would always recommend therapy. I'm a therapist. So that goes without saying. If anytime there's a conflict or a situation that can't be handled at home or between the two of you, it's always nice to bring it someone with a different perspective to help kind of shift and change things around a little bit and share new perspectives and ideas and kind of create those aha moments that could hopefully lead to real change.
- [54:20]
B
I think sometimes if you're in an experience where there's a lot of tension, you kind of need either a third party, an outside perspective, just to help hear each other again. Because sometimes there can just be so much that it can be hard to break through that wall.
- [54:37]
C
Absolutely. Especially if it's something that's been a continual or like a conversation that's happened continuously. Right. And you're not getting you anywhere and you feel stuck and both of you are feeling like your walls are going up and you're. It's not productive anymore, but it's something still has to give, then that's really a great time to seek, I would say, professional advice. You have to be careful about what opinions you bring into your relations. Certainly my mom, in any disagreement in my relationship, she is not the one to ask because she's obviously gonna have my. Take my side. So you wanna be careful about who you bring into these types of conflicts. It doesn't always have to be a therapist. It could be a pastor. It could be a mutual friend, like a trusted mutual friend that both of you respect. It could be a parent. If you have a parent that is subjective or objective. That's hard, though. Cause they. I know it's hard. Well, some are like that, though. You know, you. I don't know. I. I've seen it happen. I know quite a few friends whose parents are really great about relationship stuff. The important thing is, is this person objective? Do you both respect this person and do they have your best interests? I would say those are the three things that are important when choosing that third party. And a therapist also works anytime, for sure.
- [56:03]
B
I know we also. We talked about Nebby a little bit as we were talking about you kind of in the building phase. But before we wrap up, I would love for you to tell our audience a bit more about the app and what inspired you to create it and how you're looking to help with it.
- [56:19]
C
Well, I feel like everything we talked about is what inspired me to create Nebby. Nebby is a mental wellness lifestyle app that allows you to check in with how you're feeling each day. It's all evidence Based and based in cbt. And so once you check in, you will receive a few tasks of really small micro actions that can help improve your mood that day. It was really important to us to create something that felt like tangible because we're busy. Like, we are so busy. At least I am. And so many of my friends that I was speaking with were like, I feel terrible and I don't even know why and I'm trying to get out of this rut, but I feel like I'm having a really hard time getting there. And I know there are a lot of amazing wellness apps and, and meditation apps and journaling apps. And we were like, we need to create something that just is simple and comes to you. Like, you don't have to sc. It's not like a Netflix scrolling situation. Tell us how you feel. We're gonna tell you a couple, a few quick things to feel better that you can do in your day and like, that's it. Cause who has more time for that? I think our approach with Nebby, which I'm really proud of, has been and definitely a more clinician led approach. And being able to lead with that in mind has been really important because we don't want you to be on the app, right? We just want you to get something to help you feel better, live a happier life, and then we want you to go live that life. And that's what Nebby is about. And so it was. It's been a great process. It's been a trying process, a lot of work. And we built it for the small in between moments, not the when you're in crisis. Nebby is not your app for when you're in crisis. It can be your app when you're thriving, but we really built it for daily life, for everyone in between thriving in crisis. And so pretty much all of us at one point or another. And so we're really proud of it and it's just really heartwarming to see even when my kids are using it, they're so excited and people are texting me like, oh my gosh, I loved my task today and things like that. And so I just love the impact that Nebby has been able to have already. Even though we've just launched and the community that it's bringing people together, people who are really like, understanding and valuing mental wellness. Because we've talked about this a lot during this conversation. We have to be choosing ourselves first in order to live a healthy, happy life. And that's what we hope to achieve with Nebby.
- [59:11]
A
Yeah.
- [59:12]
B
And I appreciate the accessibility of it and how it's designed to be incorporated throughout your day because I think a lot of conversations around self care, even choosing oneself someone's first thought might be, I don't have time for that. I don't have space for that. That's not accessible. And finding ways that people can have that element of choosing themselves throughout their day that they're already doing makes it so much more accessible, makes it more sustainable so that it can actually help people. They can stick with it. And I think that it can really reframe self care.
- [59:42]
C
I agree. And I mean, my mission is always to be, you know, accessible. I'm trying to help people understand themselves better, learn how to cope and deal with all of life's chaos and stressors that we've been talking about. And Nebu is just another way for us to be able to do that.
- [60:02]
B
So yeah, amazing.
- [60:04]
A
Well, we'll make sure that we link.
- [60:05]
B
It in the description so the audience.
- [60:07]
A
Can download it and check it out.
- [60:09]
C
That would be amazing.
- [60:10]
A
Thank you so much for joining me, Nina.
- [60:12]
C
Thanks for having me. This was really fun.
- [60:14]
A
Oh my gosh.
- [60:15]
B
I really enjoyed this conversation. Please let our audience know where they can find you and keep in touch with you.
- [60:19]
A
Oh my gosh.
- [60:20]
C
You can follow me at nawestbrook on TikTok or Instagram and you can follow Nebby Thenebby Way on Instagram and they.
- [60:29]
B
Can listen to your podcast.
- [60:30]
C
You can listen to my podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts. Do Tell Relationship Relationship podcast, Do Tell podcasts on Instagram. Follow us and yeah, amazing.
- [60:39]
A
Thank you so much for joining me.
- [60:40]
C
Thank you for having me, of course.
- [60:43]
A
And thank y' all so much for tuning in.
- [60:45]
B
So if you enjoyed this episode we would love a five star rating and review because Lucky girls are five star girls. Make sure you're subscribed to the show.
- [60:52]
A
On Apple, Spotify and YouTube and I.
- [60:54]
B
Will see you next week.
- [61:00]
C
Foreign.
- [61:04]
A
Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of she's so Lucky. If you're ready to create your own luck, hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube so you don't miss an episode and head to the show. Notes for resources, links and discount codes. And if you are really feeling lucky, we would appreciate your rating and your review.
- [61:23]
B
It really helps us be able to.
- [61:25]
A
Improve the show to get great guests and to understand what you want to hear more of. Thank you for tuning in and I'll see you next week.
- [61:40]
D
Hey guys, it's your girl, Jordan sparks. Make sure you listen weekly to my new show, what's yous Spark? And get your inspirational fire lit. We'll be talking to everyone from chefs to athletes to authors to spiritual guides to artists and more, finding out what makes them tick, what makes them light up, what's their spark? If you're craving a good story from people you thought you knew, be sure to join me every week on what's yous Spark.
- [62:11]
B
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.