Shift Key, October 22, 2025 — Summary

Episode Title: The Startup Trying to Put Geothermal Heat Pumps in America’s Homes
Hosts: Robinson Meyer (A), Executive Editor, Heatmap News; Jesse Jenkins (B), Professor of Energy Systems Engineering, Princeton University
Guest: Dulcie Madden (C), CEO & Co-founder, Dig Energy

Episode Overview

This week, Shift Key explores how next-generation geothermal heat pumps could revolutionize heating and cooling for American homes and buildings. Robinson and Jesse speak with Dulcie Madden, CEO of Dig Energy, a climate technology startup developing small, modular drilling rigs to make ground-source geothermal heat pumps (GSHPs) dramatically more affordable and accessible. The conversation covers the technology basics, market barriers, regional considerations, policy levers, industry terminology, and the future of distributed and networked geothermal for the clean energy transition.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are Ground Source Geothermal Heat Pumps?

Technology Basics:
- Below 10–15 feet, ground temperatures stay steady year-round at 50–60°F (04:03–04:37).
- Ground-source heat pumps extract this stable underground energy for heating/cooling.
- By leveraging the smaller temperature difference (delta), these systems are much more efficient than standard air-source heat pumps, especially in harsh climates or for winter heating (04:55–06:07).
Terminology:
- Multiple names are used: ground source heat pumps, geothermal heat pumps, geo-exchange, shallow geothermal.
- No consensus on the “best” term (28:34–31:08).
- For consumers, “ground source” can be confusing; more education and clearer branding are needed.

“If you're running a traditional air conditioner or air source heat pump, you're trying to bridge the gap to your desired indoor temperature from whatever is outside – sometimes a huge difference. With ground source, that gap is much smaller, so you're not pushing energy uphill so far.”
— Jesse Jenkins, 05:46

2. Barriers to Widespread Adoption

Cost
- Despite high efficiency, ground-source systems represent just ~1% of installations in North America due to prohibitive upfront costs—typically 7–10x higher than air-source HVAC.
- For a typical 2200-square-foot home, current installation runs $30,000–$40,000, compared to $7,000 for common alternatives (09:02).
- The long payback period is a major obstacle for most consumers (07:49).
Drilling Bottleneck
- Most of the expense is from drilling deep, precise boreholes (07:40), often requiring large, expensive rigs and specialized crews.
- Permitting, licensing, and municipal requirements further complicate or slow down adoption.

“It’s never scaled because it’s a really expensive technology… You have to drill down into the earth. Traditionally, installing a geothermal heat pump has been seven to ten times the cost of any other thermal energy.”
— Dulcie Madden, 06:36

3. Dig Energy’s Approach: Unlocking Affordability

Innovation
- Developing compact, low-cost modular drilling rigs (2x2 feet in size) that can access tight spaces and reduce mobilization costs (12:40).
- Their goal: cut drilling costs by 80-90%, making installation competitive with fossil fuel and standard electric HVAC (08:17–09:53).
- Flexible drilling: arrays of shallow or deeper boreholes depending on local geology.
- Advanced simulation tools to customize drilling tactics per site (11:58).
Domestic Manufacturing
- Requirements that all commodity parts be locally sourced and manufacturable in regular US machine shops (32:44–33:35).

"Our goal is to reduce drilling cost by 80 to 90 percent so we can put geothermal heating on an apples-to-apples plane with fossil fuels… so people can say, yes, we’re going to choose this option because it’s a better economic option and then we get all the other benefits to go along with it."
— Dulcie Madden, 08:17

4. Economic & Regional Considerations

Where Does Ground Source Make Sense First?
- Early markets: New England, Mid-Atlantic, Great Lakes—areas with high delivered fuel costs, grid constraints, and aggressive decarbonization goals (13:48–15:55).
- Places with expensive electricity AND fuels are ideal, especially where high demand strains winter grids (16:32).
- Long-term potential in high-cooling climates (the South), as electricity prices rise.
Grid Impacts
- As heating electrifies, winter peak demand grows. GSHPs’ higher efficiency can relieve pressure compared to air source (17:13–19:09).

“If you really think about how we're going to move New England off of delivered fuels, the only way to do it is ground source heat pumps. We can't supply that much generation, we can't do the transmission lines. It's tough up here.”
— Dulcie Madden, 14:16

5. Technical Considerations & System Lifecycles

Operating Principle & Sizing
- Borehole depth: About 150 feet per ton of heating/cooling; options for single deep holes or shallow arrays (11:13–11:54).
- Geology matters; drilling strategy is regional.
Thermal Saturation & Storage
- Over time, the ground can absorb (or lose) heat and impact long-term efficiency. Load balancing, diurnal/seasonal shifting, and monitoring can mitigate this (22:11–25:47).
- Commercial and campus installations (e.g., Princeton) already leverage these shifting strategies.
Controls & Monitoring
- For large buildings, sophisticated controls and software exist; for homes, simpler monitoring suffices (25:06–26:03).

6. Networked Geothermal & Utility Transformation

District & Network Systems
- Network geothermal allows utilities or large campuses to share infrastructure, balance loads, and take advantage of regulatory models to finance installation over time (34:19–36:34).
- Real-world pilots (e.g., Eversource in Massachusetts) and university campuses (like Princeton) provide proof-of-concept (34:19).
- Challenges include infrastructural overhaul (e.g., replacing old steam pipes), but these costs are akin to municipal utility upgrades already routine in cities (36:48–37:42).
Role of Utilities
- Natural gas utilities are positioned to lead the shift as gas is phased down (38:00–38:19).
- Existing skills (water well drilling) and workforce can be adapted for geothermal—pending more affordable rigs (38:20–39:17).

7. Market Entry & Scaling

Who Goes First?
- Thermally intensive industries (grocers, data centers), campuses, and commercial real estate are lead targets due to energy savings and ROI (41:13–42:11).
- Retrofit feasibility is best in areas with more available horizontal real estate than dense vertical cities like Manhattan (43:09–43:12).
The Growing Ecosystem
- Multiple startups are entering the space (Bedrock Energy, Borobotics, Celsius Energy), leveraging AI, automation, and new drilling strategies (43:28–44:12).

“The long-term goal is that this is the highest margin, lowest cost product that can be in any driller’s toolbox.”
— Dulcie Madden, 39:17

8. Policy Landscape & Incentives

Incentives
- 30% federal commercial ITC (Investment Tax Credit) available through at least 2032, with potential adders (domestic content, brownfield, energy communities) taking credits as high as 50% (46:23–47:15).
- Residential tax credits have sunset.
- Some states and utilities add incentives or rebates, especially to mitigate grid peaks.
Regulatory Priorities
- Need to expand the driller workforce and streamline permitting for geothermal installations.

“As we think about moving to potentially a smaller, easier to operate drill, I want to get more drillers into the workforce… We need a lot of drillers to drill the amount of heating and cooling infrastructure that we need across the country.”
— Dulcie Madden, 48:43

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Product Engineering and National Identity:
“It feels… super American… parts of Texas, drill baby, drill… If you can think about drilling with decarbonizing energy, that's like an incredible mix that is able to also feel like uniquely American.”
— Dulcie Madden, 44:28
On Branding & Public Perception:
“Nobody likes the word heat pump either… the competition is ‘air conditioner’, which is also totally unclear… It conditions your air.”
— Robinson Meyer, 31:08
On Market Potential:
“Once they started explaining, I kind of grokked the economics… I was just like, oh wait, this is just how we're going to heat and cool every building in the world someday. Okay, let’s do that.”
— Jesse Jenkins, 49:17

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment / Topic | |------------|----------------------------------------------| | 04:03–06:07| Geothermal heat pump basics and efficiency | | 06:36–08:49| Why GSHPs haven’t scaled in North America | | 08:49–10:21| Cost breakdown for typical home installations| | 13:48–15:55| Early adopter markets and grid implications | | 17:13–19:09| Electrification, grid stress, efficiency | | 22:11–25:47| Ground thermal saturation, load balancing | | 32:44–33:35| Domestic manufacturing philosophy | | 34:19–36:34| Campus/district-scale networked systems | | 41:13–42:11| Early adopter customer types | | 43:28–44:12| Industry landscape, competitors & innovation | | 46:23–48:52| Current policy, tax credits, regulatory needs|

Tone and Delivery

The episode is conversational and lighthearted, blending technical depth and industry insight with humor and approachability. Robinson and Jesse challenge jargon and address real obstacles in deploying clean energy, while Dulcie brings candid startup perspective and optimism about scaling geothermal for decarbonization.

Additional Segments (Briefly Noted)

UpShift / DownShift (50:04–59:04):

Both hosts share recent news stories affecting their climate optimism:
- Jesse’s Downshift: U.S. obstruction of a proposed global maritime carbon price at the IMO via heavy-handed diplomacy.
- Robinson’s Downshift: Record atmospheric CO₂ increase reported by the World Meteorological Organization; rising faster than ever, partly from wildfires.

Summary Takeaway

The biggest obstacle to geothermal heating and cooling in American homes is drilling cost. Dig Energy, by building small, modular, and locally manufacturable drills, aims to cut these costs by an order of magnitude and put “insanely cheap” high-efficiency heating and cooling in reach for homes, businesses, and campuses. With the right early beachhead markets, smart policy support, and a little help from America’s world-class drilling industry, geothermal heat pumps could be poised for a major breakout on the path to decarbonizing a third of global energy use.

For more, subscribe to Shift Key on your podcast app and follow Heatmap News for the latest on decarbonization and the clean energy transition.

Shift Key, October 22, 2025 — Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are Ground Source Geothermal Heat Pumps?

Technology Basics:
- Below 10–15 feet, ground temperatures stay steady year-round at 50–60°F (04:03–04:37).
- Ground-source heat pumps extract this stable underground energy for heating/cooling.
- By leveraging the smaller temperature difference (delta), these systems are much more efficient than standard air-source heat pumps, especially in harsh climates or for winter heating (04:55–06:07).
Terminology:
- Multiple names are used: ground source heat pumps, geothermal heat pumps, geo-exchange, shallow geothermal.
- No consensus on the “best” term (28:34–31:08).
- For consumers, “ground source” can be confusing; more education and clearer branding are needed.

“If you're running a traditional air conditioner or air source heat pump, you're trying to bridge the gap to your desired indoor temperature from whatever is outside – sometimes a huge difference. With ground source, that gap is much smaller, so you're not pushing energy uphill so far.”
— Jesse Jenkins, 05:46

2. Barriers to Widespread Adoption

Cost
- Despite high efficiency, ground-source systems represent just ~1% of installations in North America due to prohibitive upfront costs—typically 7–10x higher than air-source HVAC.
- For a typical 2200-square-foot home, current installation runs $30,000–$40,000, compared to $7,000 for common alternatives (09:02).
- The long payback period is a major obstacle for most consumers (07:49).
Drilling Bottleneck
- Most of the expense is from drilling deep, precise boreholes (07:40), often requiring large, expensive rigs and specialized crews.
- Permitting, licensing, and municipal requirements further complicate or slow down adoption.

“It’s never scaled because it’s a really expensive technology… You have to drill down into the earth. Traditionally, installing a geothermal heat pump has been seven to ten times the cost of any other thermal energy.”
— Dulcie Madden, 06:36

3. Dig Energy’s Approach: Unlocking Affordability

Innovation
- Developing compact, low-cost modular drilling rigs (2x2 feet in size) that can access tight spaces and reduce mobilization costs (12:40).
- Their goal: cut drilling costs by 80-90%, making installation competitive with fossil fuel and standard electric HVAC (08:17–09:53).
- Flexible drilling: arrays of shallow or deeper boreholes depending on local geology.
- Advanced simulation tools to customize drilling tactics per site (11:58).
Domestic Manufacturing
- Requirements that all commodity parts be locally sourced and manufacturable in regular US machine shops (32:44–33:35).

"Our goal is to reduce drilling cost by 80 to 90 percent so we can put geothermal heating on an apples-to-apples plane with fossil fuels… so people can say, yes, we’re going to choose this option because it’s a better economic option and then we get all the other benefits to go along with it."
— Dulcie Madden, 08:17

4. Economic & Regional Considerations

Where Does Ground Source Make Sense First?
- Early markets: New England, Mid-Atlantic, Great Lakes—areas with high delivered fuel costs, grid constraints, and aggressive decarbonization goals (13:48–15:55).
- Places with expensive electricity AND fuels are ideal, especially where high demand strains winter grids (16:32).
- Long-term potential in high-cooling climates (the South), as electricity prices rise.
Grid Impacts
- As heating electrifies, winter peak demand grows. GSHPs’ higher efficiency can relieve pressure compared to air source (17:13–19:09).

“If you really think about how we're going to move New England off of delivered fuels, the only way to do it is ground source heat pumps. We can't supply that much generation, we can't do the transmission lines. It's tough up here.”
— Dulcie Madden, 14:16

5. Technical Considerations & System Lifecycles

Operating Principle & Sizing
- Borehole depth: About 150 feet per ton of heating/cooling; options for single deep holes or shallow arrays (11:13–11:54).
- Geology matters; drilling strategy is regional.
Thermal Saturation & Storage
- Over time, the ground can absorb (or lose) heat and impact long-term efficiency. Load balancing, diurnal/seasonal shifting, and monitoring can mitigate this (22:11–25:47).
- Commercial and campus installations (e.g., Princeton) already leverage these shifting strategies.
Controls & Monitoring
- For large buildings, sophisticated controls and software exist; for homes, simpler monitoring suffices (25:06–26:03).

6. Networked Geothermal & Utility Transformation

District & Network Systems
- Network geothermal allows utilities or large campuses to share infrastructure, balance loads, and take advantage of regulatory models to finance installation over time (34:19–36:34).
- Real-world pilots (e.g., Eversource in Massachusetts) and university campuses (like Princeton) provide proof-of-concept (34:19).
- Challenges include infrastructural overhaul (e.g., replacing old steam pipes), but these costs are akin to municipal utility upgrades already routine in cities (36:48–37:42).
Role of Utilities
- Natural gas utilities are positioned to lead the shift as gas is phased down (38:00–38:19).
- Existing skills (water well drilling) and workforce can be adapted for geothermal—pending more affordable rigs (38:20–39:17).

7. Market Entry & Scaling

Who Goes First?
- Thermally intensive industries (grocers, data centers), campuses, and commercial real estate are lead targets due to energy savings and ROI (41:13–42:11).
- Retrofit feasibility is best in areas with more available horizontal real estate than dense vertical cities like Manhattan (43:09–43:12).
The Growing Ecosystem
- Multiple startups are entering the space (Bedrock Energy, Borobotics, Celsius Energy), leveraging AI, automation, and new drilling strategies (43:28–44:12).

“The long-term goal is that this is the highest margin, lowest cost product that can be in any driller’s toolbox.”
— Dulcie Madden, 39:17

8. Policy Landscape & Incentives

Incentives
- 30% federal commercial ITC (Investment Tax Credit) available through at least 2032, with potential adders (domestic content, brownfield, energy communities) taking credits as high as 50% (46:23–47:15).
- Residential tax credits have sunset.
- Some states and utilities add incentives or rebates, especially to mitigate grid peaks.
Regulatory Priorities
- Need to expand the driller workforce and streamline permitting for geothermal installations.

“As we think about moving to potentially a smaller, easier to operate drill, I want to get more drillers into the workforce… We need a lot of drillers to drill the amount of heating and cooling infrastructure that we need across the country.”
— Dulcie Madden, 48:43

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Product Engineering and National Identity:
“It feels… super American… parts of Texas, drill baby, drill… If you can think about drilling with decarbonizing energy, that's like an incredible mix that is able to also feel like uniquely American.”
— Dulcie Madden, 44:28
On Branding & Public Perception:
“Nobody likes the word heat pump either… the competition is ‘air conditioner’, which is also totally unclear… It conditions your air.”
— Robinson Meyer, 31:08
On Market Potential:
“Once they started explaining, I kind of grokked the economics… I was just like, oh wait, this is just how we're going to heat and cool every building in the world someday. Okay, let’s do that.”
— Jesse Jenkins, 49:17

Timestamps for Key Segments

Tone and Delivery

Additional Segments (Briefly Noted)

UpShift / DownShift (50:04–59:04):

Both hosts share recent news stories affecting their climate optimism:
- Jesse’s Downshift: U.S. obstruction of a proposed global maritime carbon price at the IMO via heavy-handed diplomacy.
- Robinson’s Downshift: Record atmospheric CO₂ increase reported by the World Meteorological Organization; rising faster than ever, partly from wildfires.

Summary Takeaway

For more, subscribe to Shift Key on your podcast app and follow Heatmap News for the latest on decarbonization and the clean energy transition.

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The Startup Trying to Put Geothermal Heat Pumps in America’s Homes

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Summary

Shift Key, October 22, 2025 — Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are Ground Source Geothermal Heat Pumps?

2. Barriers to Widespread Adoption

3. Dig Energy’s Approach: Unlocking Affordability

4. Economic & Regional Considerations

5. Technical Considerations & System Lifecycles

6. Networked Geothermal & Utility Transformation

7. Market Entry & Scaling

8. Policy Landscape & Incentives

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Tone and Delivery

Additional Segments (Briefly Noted)

Summary Takeaway

Summary

Shift Key, October 22, 2025 — Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Are Ground Source Geothermal Heat Pumps?

2. Barriers to Widespread Adoption

3. Dig Energy’s Approach: Unlocking Affordability

4. Economic & Regional Considerations

5. Technical Considerations & System Lifecycles

6. Networked Geothermal & Utility Transformation

7. Market Entry & Scaling

8. Policy Landscape & Incentives

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Tone and Delivery

Additional Segments (Briefly Noted)

Summary Takeaway