Keith Lowe (8:26)

It was a really huge operation. The sheer number of ships involved, hundreds of ships involved, thousands of troops landing on the first day. It was a logistical enterprise to get this going. I mean, it took months and months of planning.

John Hopkins (8:48)

As part of Overlord, the Allies have devised elaborate false invasion plans and deliberately leaked them to the Nazis using bogus radio signals and double agents. Dummy landing crafts, inflatable tanks and fake divisions have also been amassed to support the hoax that the invasion will occur at Pas de Calais, the narrowest point between Britain and France.

Keith Lowe (9:13)

It took lots of deception. They were building up a sort of pretend tank parks in Kent, to pretend that they were going across to Calais instead of to Normandy. And it had to be thought through to the very last detail because anything could go wrong. And if it had gone wrong, that would have been it. They wouldn't have been able to attempt to do it again for months and months and months afterwards.

John Hopkins (9:38)

However, what's causing Eisenhower such a headache is that right now there are strong winds and rough seas across the English Channel. It's one thing to send hundreds of thousands of soldiers out to land on the fiercely defended beaches of Normandy, but making them do it in six foot waves and near horizontal rain is entirely another. So with a heavy heart, he postpones the operation. But there's still no time to waste. The longer they delay, the more likely it is that the Germans will learn about the real offensive. And when they do that, the inevitable redeployment of their forces could cost the lives of countless soldiers. Meeting now with his chief meteorologist, Eisenhower learns that there should be a small window of good weather over the English Channel tomorrow.

Keith Lowe (10:33)

So they're pinning all their hopes on on a weather report saying it's going to be a bit better on the sixth. But it's a leap of faith in some ways that it is going to be better.

John Hopkins (10:44)

If the forecast is right, the Allies have an opportunity to carry out the first crucial stage of their mission. Landing a major military force on the beaches of Normandy and securing a foothold in Nazi occupied Europe. Eisenhower makes his decision. They will launch the invasion tomorrow. Tuesday 6th June. The order is signed and distributed to the soldiers, sailors and airmen from the Allied Nations Expeditionary force, numbering nearly 160,000 men. In it, the supreme commander expresses his confidence in their devotion to duty and skill in battle, telling them, we will accept nothing less than full victory. Privately, though, he is less confident. In his pocket is a speech he has prepared in which he accepts full responsibility if the operation is a failure. After all, he knows better than anyone what they're up against. The Nazis have created what they label the Atlantic Wall, a strategic network of defenses that runs along the coastline of occupied Western Europe from Norway down to the border with Spain. Deemed to be largely impenetrable, it includes gun emplacements, concrete bunkers manned with machine gun units and mortars, as well as beaches lined with minefields and barbed w. In the early hours of Tuesday, tons of military equipment and thousands of men are dropped behind the enemy lines. Though the darkness means that many of the paratroopers land in the wrong locations, those who arrive successfully set about their task of disrupting the German army's transport links. A few hours later, the first wave of Eisenhower's massive armada approaches five beaches along the Normandy coastline. As the troops, tanks and artillery approach in more than 4,000 destroyers, cruisers, barges and landing craft, the early morning skies above them darken with an equally staggering number of aircraft. The bombers and fighter planes set about the aerial bombardment of the gun emplacements and concrete defenses of the Nazi held beaches. The prediction of better weather proves correct. But even with calmer seas, it's no pleasure cruise. The men crowded on the landing crafts huddle down to escape the spray as the vessels power over the waves. The combination of terror and nauseating motion causes many of them to vomit. But as the beaches come into view, that is the least of their concerns. As soon as they're within range, the Germans open fire with artillery and mortar attacks. And with the deafening chaos unfolding, the Allies now face a fresh dilemma. Having misjudged the tides Some vessels are unable to get as close to the shore as planned. The unlucky men have no choice but to jump into the freezing water and wade the last yards to the shoreline. Waterproofed tanks and machinery specially designed to deal with minefields and barbed wire are also in the water, struggling toward dry land.

Keith Lowe (14:24)

Even in good weather, landing on a beach with defences ranged against you is extremely dangerous because you're coming out of the sea, so you're moving really slowly. You're sort of sitting ducks for the defenses to aim at. And the defenses are formidable. So you've got artillery range along the beach, you've got machine gun nests everywhere, and there are often several layers of these defenses. So it's not just getting onto the beach, it's also getting off the beach afterwards.

John Hopkins (14:55)

The German bullets come thick and fast, as do the shells and mortars. Many of the boats take direct hits, while some of the precious tanks sink in the shallow water and have to be abandoned, leaving some troops without the mechanized support they so desperately need. As well as viciously confronting the waterborne assault, the Germans put up stiff resistance against the aerial bombardment from Allied planes. But though the first wave of troops suffer enormous casualties on D Day, their determination to secure crucial footholds on the beaches means that subsequent waves experience fewer losses. The invading force keeps coming, and more and more men and machinery now make it to land. The elaborate deception to convince the enemy that the invasion is happening elsewhere has paid off. The Germans are wrong footed. You chose to hit play on this podcast today.

Keith Lowe (16:02)

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John Hopkins (16:06)

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Keith Lowe (16:09)

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Keith Lowe (16:32)

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John Hopkins (17:05)

Shopify.com promo the celebrated Nazi Field Marshal Erwin Rommel is in overall charge of the Atlantic War. At the time of the invasion, he is at home in a small town outside Stuttgart, celebrating his wife's 50th birthday. By the time the party is over, Hitler's coastal defenses have been decisively breached and 150,000 Allied soldiers have landed in Normandy. And though 4,000 Allied troops lay dead and 6,000 are wounded, the price of the invasion is considerably lower than Eisenhower had feared. For the moment at least, the worst case scenario, speech can stay in his pocket. A week after D Day, the French leader Charles de Gaulle, who spent the war exiled in London, lands in Normandy. Before the end of the month, the Allies take the crucial port of Cherbourg. But terrifying as it was, the Allies at the Atlantic Wall were only facing a quarter of the German military machine. The rest had been deployed to the Eastern Front, having coordinated with the Allies on their timing. On the other side of Europe, Stalin and his generals are preparing their own assault on the Nazis. Soviet backed resistance fighters in Nazi occupied countries have carried out thousands of sabotage attacks on transportation links. On June 22, 1944, less than two weeks after D Day, Soviet forces launch their own major offensive on the Eastern Front. Operation Bagration, as it's known, pushes the Germans back from Belarus and other key points. Back in 1941, the German and Axis forces invading the Soviet Union were met with a Red army that was unprepared and ill equipped. In the three years since, Russian generals have learned how to strategize and effectively mobilize the vast military force at their disposal. Now, in just three weeks, the Russians shatter the German frontline and inflict astonishing casualties. Of the 800,000 strong German army group targeted, around half are killed, wounded or taken prisoner.

Keith Lowe (19:38)

The Russians, the Soviets launched a thing called Operation Bagration, which to be honest, puts D Day in the shade. I mean, it makes D Day seem like a pinprick of an attack compared to what they were doing. They had over 2 million Soviet soldiers attacking along a front of about 2,000 kilometers. So no matter how important D Day was, and it was important to create this second front in Europe, it's nothing compared to the scale of the war that's happening in Ukraine and Belarus and the Baltic states. That's where the war was really won or lost.

John Hopkins (20:21)

By the summer of 1944, most rational Germans know the war is lost, including many of its military leaders. But Hitler will not tolerate any talk of surrender. He surrounds himself with loyal Nazis and sycophants who play along with his fantasies of final victory. So A group of generals decide to take matters into their own hands. If they can eliminate Hitler from the equation, they believe they can form a new government and make an honourable peace with the Allies. On the 20th of July 1944, Hitler is at Wolf's Lair, his headquarters for the eastern front of the war in what is now Poland. An officer by the name of Count Claus Stauffenberg enters the conference room to join a meeting between the Nazi leader and some military aides. He sets down his briefcase and takes a seat. But once the meeting is in full swing, he slips out of the room. What those left behind don't know is that Stauffenberg has been tasked with Hitler's assassination and that the briefcase he has left behind contains a bomb. By the time the explosion occurs, the case has been moved to the other end of the room. So although the explosion kills three officers and a stenographer, Hitler himself escapes with minor injuries. But though he survives, the lack of faith in him is only growing.

Keith Lowe (21:54)

I think the feeling amongst Germany generally was that they knew that the war was coming to an end. It's a real tragedy that they didn't do what they should have done, which was surrender. In the last three months of the war, over a million German soldiers were killed just in the last three months. So those people could have been saved if they had had somebody sensible in charge who saw the writing on the wall and stopped it. You know, Hitler had this kind of death wish. He was determined to act as this sort of romantic hero and go down fighting, he thought, but he wanted to take the whole country down with him.

John Hopkins (22:36)

Back on the Western Front, while Allied forces are pushing out from their Normandy stronghold, Eisenhower has no plans to retake occupied Paris at this time if the planned recapture of Nazi held France is to succeed. He knows he can't currently afford to get bogged down potentially for months with street to street fighting to clear the French capital.

Keith Lowe (23:00)

Taking a city is really, it's a massive undertaking. It involves a lot of violence, a lot of destruction and more importantly, it's slow. And what the Allies want to do is they want to, they just want to keep the Germans on the back foot, drive them all the way back into Belgium. So going into Paris doesn't really make sense.

John Hopkins (23:19)

However, French Communist resistance fighters have other ideas, as do some of the French generals who have returned to France with their divisions after four years of exile.

Keith Lowe (23:32)

The local Communist resistance in Paris announced an immediate uprising so the people of Paris would rise up, but unfortunately they just don't have the resources to take on the Germans properly. So it could have, it could have ended up being a bloodbath. So some of the French generals who were alongside Eisenhower and the Allies were really worried about this and didn't want to leave Paris to its fate.

John Hopkins (24:03)

Now Eisenhower feels he has no choice but to divert armored and infantry divisions into the city. The way Hitler sees it, if he can't keep Paris, then no one can. He orders his commander on the ground there, General Dietrich von Koltitz, to destroy the city rather than let it fall into Allied hands. But recognizing the futility of the order, Koltitz disobeys and agrees a truce. Within a week, the Allies are in control of the city. In late August, despite fears that German snipers are still operating from the surrounding buildings, De Gaulle leads a victory parade down the Champs Elysees. Beyond the city's borders, the Allies are forcing the Germans back with relentless air and land assaults. In December 1944, Hitler orders the launch of what will become the Nazis final major offensive, the Battle of the Bulge. In the Ardennes region between Belgium and Luxembourg, a quarter of a million German troops push through the Allied lines, creating a bulge in the front. Bold but desperate, the offensive ultimately fails. By January 1945, as the Allies regroup and push the Germans back, and as the Allies and Soviets advanced towards Berlin, they discover evidence of the full horror of what Hitler called his Final Solution. In the last days of January, the soldiers from the 60th army of the 1st Ukrainian Front arrive at the gates of Auschwitz in southern Poland. The Nazi officers in charge of the camp have fled after sending an estimated 60,000 prisoners on forced marches to other locations. Unfathomable numbers of corpses are found in mass graves. But thousands more have been left behind alive, many of them dying and all of them horribly emaciated. Those found in the concentration camps are treated by the liberating armies to the best of their abilities, though ultimately many are too weak to survive. By the end of the war, millions of Jews and other specific ethnic, political and social groups have been systematically murdered in the camps. 20 major sites like Auschwitz will eventually be liberated, along with hundreds of sub camps, including those reserved just for women and children. But much of that is still to come. By February 1945, German forces on the Western Front are now in retreat back into their homeland as US troops cross the Rhine. Meanwhile, Soviet forces are pushing further in from the east. They have Berlin in their sights. American air force bombers and fighters target the German capital throughout the spring. Starving and traumatized, the city's inhabitants are struggling to survive among the ruins of this once beautiful city. But they also know that with the imminent arrival of the Red army, the worst is yet to come. It's only been a few years since the German forces invaded Russian soil, slaughtering millions of men, women and children and wiping out entire villages. These atrocities, the Germans know, will not be forgotten. A slogan starts appearing on walls around Berlin. Enjoy the war, it reads, because the peace will be terrible. While his enemies close in, the man who brought about all of this horror is holed up in a bomb proof bunker 15 meters under the Reich Chancellery. On Wednesday, 25 April, the first red army soldiers arrive in the city. And though they wreak a revenge every bit as terrible as the Berliners feared, as they move through the capital, each of them is on the hunt for the biggest prize. It is Monday, 30th April 1945, and Martin Bormann, Adolf Hitler's private secretary, is staggering around the bunker's extensive wine cellar. It's only the morning, but Bormann has been living in a kind of twilight zone, with no distinction between day and night. Drunk and bleary eyed, he selects a wine at random, squints at the label, then pulls the cork and drinks straight from the bottle as he makes his way through the narrow corridors back towards his office. Turning a corner, he bumps into a jittery junior officer who informs him that the Soviets have now reached nearby Potsdamer Platz. Bormann merely shrugs at the news, but as he does so, the younger man startles at the sound of another muffled explosion above their heads. Even the layers of concrete can't silence the artillery and machine gun exchanges outside. Carrying on his weaving journey, Bormann passes the open door of a meeting room where a gramophone plays decadent American jazz to a motley assembly of half dressed officers and secretaries. Like Borman, they're surviving on little more than drugs and alcohol, numbing themselves to the final and terrible fate coming for them. Further down the corridor, in the war room, he finds Hitler is with his generals. For once, he is not ranting or drawing up deluded battle plans, directing the movements of units that no longer exist. Yesterday, Bormann and Joseph Goebbels were witnesses as Hitler married his lover, Eva Braun. And now, it seems, Hitler is finally accepting the truth. The war is lost. Bormann now trails Hitler as he goes from room to room, saying goodbye to staff. He is in a terrible state, mentally and physically, but he tries to appear calm and smiling for his devotees, many of whom are Crying, he frees them from their oath of service, meaning they can try to escape if they choose to. Now Hitler addresses some final administrative tasks, like naming his successors. While Goebbels is named Chancellor, Bormann is to lead the Nazi Party, but it's a hollow prize. There's little of the Nazi Party left to lead. Around 3 in the afternoon, Hitler retreats into his inner sanctum with his new wife, a handgun and some cyanide. The door closes and Borman and other staff stand quietly outside, waiting for the gunshot. When it comes, Borman enters. The newlyweds have both used the deadly pills, but Hitler has made doubly sure with a self inflicted gunshot to the head. Overseeing the grisly job of bringing the corpses to the surface falls to Bormann and Goebbels. Emerging into daylight and with the tanks of the Red army just streets away, Bormann helps drag the bodies to a shallow bomb crater. There they are, doused in petrol and cremated. As the smoke billows, Bormann nods in grim approval. The Russians will not have the satisfaction of parading or defiling the corpse of their leader. The next day, after a futile attempt to reach out to the Russians, Goebbels and his wife take their own lives, although not before they have murdered their six children with cyanide. Borman, disguised as a low ranking soldier, flees the bunker with some of the officers and secretaries. For decades, Nazi hunters believe that he escaped to start a new life, probably in South America. But years later, DNA testing will prove that a corpse found in a shallow grave in the city is his. When news of Hitler's death is announced, the Nazi propaganda machine has one last lie to inflict on the German people, that Hitler died bravely fighting the Bolsheviks. Some of Hitler's more fervent Nazi officers urge Admiral Donitz, named by Hitler as the new head of state, to open a new offensive. But Donitz knows that it's much too late for that. He orders his negotiator, General Alfred Jodl, to open talks with Eisenhower on the complete and total surrender of Germany to the Allies.

Keith Lowe (33:37)

There were a whole series of different surrenders. So the Germans in Italy surrendered on 2 May at Caserta, and then in northwest Europe there was another surrender at Lunaberg Heath in the northwest, and then the southwest. The following day, on the 5th, there was a surrender to the Americans. And what all these separate little sort of mini surrenders have in common is that they're all surrenders to the Western Allies because the Germans don't mind surrendering to the West. But the last thing they want to do is have any kind of surrender in place with the Soviets, because they're terrified of them.

John Hopkins (34:17)

Though the German generals believe that the Allies will treat them, their soldiers and citizens, respectfully and in accordance with the accepted rules of war, they have no such expectations of the vengeful Soviets. As such, the Germans tried to persuade the Allies to accept their surrender while allowing them to continue fighting the Russians.

Keith Lowe (34:39)

Eisenhower recognised that this was a deliberate attempt to try and drive a wedge between the west and the Soviets, so he wasn't going to have any of it. He told them in no uncertain terms that they had to surrender to everybody, all at the same time, west and east, and if they didn't, then the whole deal was off and we'd start bombing them again.

John Hopkins (35:00)

In the early hours of May 7, the negotiator, Jodl, receives a message from Donitz. He is to accept Eisenhower's conditions. A small German contingent led by Jodl, drives the short distance from their hotel to the Supreme Commander's HQ in front of the world's media. The historic moment takes place in a temporary war room in a converted school in Reims, northeastern France. Every aspect is meticulously planned. The three German generals sit opposite Allied representatives at a large conference table. But it's decided in advance that as Eisenhower is a higher rank than Jodl, it is more appropriate for him to wait in the next room. In the early hours of the morning, a document confirming the total surrender of Germany is signed. Three further declarations of surrender are then ratified, one each for Great Britain, Russia and France. When it's all done, Eisenhower sends a message to the Combined Chiefs of Staff. The mission of this Allied force, he says simply was fulfilled at 0241 local time, May 7, 1945. And with that, victory in Europe has been achieved for the Allies. That's your money saying it's time for a McDonald's run. Cause with new McValue at McDonald's you get more than you expect. Like buy a six piece McNuggets and add a McChicken for just a dollar. Your money says let's go get more than you expect. With New MC value, prices and participation may vary. Valid for item of equal or lesser value. At New Balance, we believe if you.

Keith Lowe (36:56)

Run, you're a runner, however you choose to do it.

John Hopkins (37:00)

Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover your way.

Keith Lowe (37:12)

And that's what running's all about. Run your way. @newbalance.com Running.

John Hopkins (37:21)

Somewhat curiously, the Allies now make a hash of telling the world the good news. Eisenhower's press people are eager to relay this momentous story to all media outlets. Immediately, however, there is a diplomatic fly in the ointment. Stalin doesn't trust his Western allies any more than they trust him. The Reims surrender includes all of Germany's war efforts, including the conflict against the Red Army. But Stalin insists on another surrender document for Russia, signed symbolically by German officers in Berlin. Then, and only then, will he allow the announcement of surrender. In the meantime, though war in Europe has officially ceased, there are still soldiers out there who haven't got the message. It is close to midday on Monday, 7 May, in a family apartment in the center of Amsterdam. A teenage girl is rifling through the near empty cupboards in the kitchen while her younger sisters sob at her feet, crying from hunger. But there's nothing here. All she can give her little sisters are the same promises as before. There will be food very soon, even cakes and sweets and fruit. She is certain of it, because change is on the way. A few days earlier, Nazi forces in the Netherlands surrendered. But in Amsterdam, there are still German soldiers everywhere needing some fresh air on this warm day. She opens the fourth floor window and looks onto Dam Square, but her breath catches in her throat. A joyous, heaving crowd of citizens is gathering outside, throwing flowers and hugging each other. The teenager runs to ask her father what's going on, but just then a neighbor rushes in, frenzied. He explains that he's been monitoring German radio. Berlin has announced the total cessation of war in Europe. The young woman reels. She has lived her entire adolescence under the boot heel of the Third Reich, once watching helplessly as other neighbors were dragged from their homes and thrown into the backs of trucks, never to be seen again. She remembers the Nazis stealing their crops to feed German homes. Thousands starved to death while others resorted to eating tulip bulbs. If it truly is all over, she wants to celebrate. While the adults talk, she sneaks out. Moments later, she's found her friends in the crowd, joining in as they sing, embrace and share bottles of wine. What no one notices is that standing at the open windows of the Groot Club on the corner of the square are German soldiers training their guns on the crowd. Either they haven't got the message about the total surrender yet, or they just don't care when they open fire. The war hardened revelers recognize the deadly rattle immediately and run for their lives as the young woman sprints for cover. One couple who had been dancing just a yard away, are caught in the hay of bullets and fall. The teenager makes it to an alleyway that's now packed with others seeking refuge, looking out in horror at the square just as returning fire breaks out from the direction of the Royal Palace. The square is deserted now, except for the dead and injured. Eventually, Dutch police and resistance fighters negotiate a compromise. The German soldiers are disarmed, then escorted out of the building and transported away. As soon as it's safe, the young woman runs back to her flat. Breathless and traumatized, she collapses into the arms of her frantic parents, knowing just how close she came to losing her life in this final, senseless, murderous act from an utterly defeated force.

Keith Lowe (41:52)

Eventually, their hand was kind of forced by the Germans themselves, announcing that this ceasefire was taking place because of course, they've got to announce it over the radio to stop their own forces from carrying on fighting. They've got to get them to stop somewhere. They've got to know that the end of the war is coming. So it gets announced on German radio and then that's sort of on the afternoon of the 7th. And of course, once it's been announced on German radio, there's no keeping the news back.

John Hopkins (42:25)

Though Stalin's conditions have not yet been met, with the surrender now broadcast by the Germans, the embargo is broken. The news goes out on the wires across Europe and around the world. The BBC announces that tomorrow, Tuesday 8th May, will be victory in Europe Day and a national holiday. Many British people start celebrating early, filling the pubs, building bonfires and burning effigies of Adolf Hitler. On VE Day, in towns and villages and cities across Britain, there are street parties and spontaneous celebrations. Church bells ring out and back to back remembrance services are held to cope with a high number of attendees. Across free Europe, the scenes of joy are repeated. But while war in Europe is officially over, there is still the Pacific front of the conflict. Alongside their allies, American troops, still reeling from the recent death of their wartime President Roosevelt, are still fighting Japan. US generals fear that this front of the war could continue for another two years. However, 15,000 police officers are drafted in to deal with a jubilant crowd of around half a million people that fills Times Square in New York. In Halifax, Canada, riots break out among the large concentration of military personnel stationed there as men break into closed liquor stores to to fuel their celebrations. In Australia, the war with Japan is nearer to home and festivities in its towns and cities are muted. The Sydney Morning Herald seems to capture the mood of the nation when it poses the question since when has it been customary to celebrate victory halfway through a contest? Across Europe, Allied and Russian troops mark the day as best they can. But not everyone is in a party mood.

Keith Lowe (44:35)

The soldiers wanted to celebrate just like everybody else. Of course they did. But they can't just go out onto the streets like the civilians could. You know, most of them are still on duty. They're often confined to their barracks or their airfield. Lots of them were also quite resentful, not only about the fact that they weren't allowed to celebrate in the way they wanted to, but also about what they'd been forced to go through over the last five or six years. I mean, they had to give up some of the most important formative years of their lives in order to fight this horrible war. I used to be friends with an old French fighter pilot. His name was Pierre Clostermann. He flew Spitfires for the RAF during the war. And he told me that in his airfield the atmosphere on VE Day was downright gloomy. They couldn't really go out. They all sat around in the mess and they were listening to the BBC where they were hearing stories about all the celebrations going on in Trafalgar Square. And they were so cross that eventually one of them just threw a beer bottle at the radio and broke it. And then they all just went to bed. Right now the Home Depot has spring deals under $20. So no matter what you're working on, the deals are blooming at the Home Depot with savings on plants, flowers, soil and more. Then light up your outdoor space with Hampton Bay string lights was $34.97, now only $19.99. And get the grill going with two 16 pound bags of Kingsford charcoal. Was 1998, now only 17. 1988. Don't miss spring deals under $20 now through May 7th at the home Depot subject to availability. Valid on select items only. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card Based on the.

John Hopkins (46:47)

February 2024 Nielsen report, on 8 May, Stalin gets his surrender signing ceremony in Berlin. The Soviet Union holds its official day of victory celebrations on the 9th, and Russia still marks the end of the war on that day, the Soviets have lost an estimated 30 million soldiers and citizens. More than any other nation it has seen its great cities of Stalingrad and Leningrad left in ruins. Many Russians are too shell shocked and exhausted for jubilation. However, in Moscow, a city that almost fell to the Nazis, city folk crowd into Red Square to dance, drink and celebrate to the sounds of fireworks and cannon. In a speech broadcast on the radio, Stalin speaks of the great banner of freedom that now will fly over Europe. For the long suffering citizens of the countries to the east of Europe, their reaction to the end of the war is relief, tempered with new concerns. They may now be liberated from the Nazis, but their future under Soviet control is far from bright.

Keith Lowe (48:00)

Other cities were a bit more muted in their celebrations. I mean, Warsaw, for example, there weren't huge celebrations in Warsaw. The whole city had been entirely flattened by the Nazis before they left, and it was still sort of pretty much a ghost town. Even in May 1945 in Hungary and Romania there was some celebrating. But there's also. The Communists have already started taking over, so there's also a lot of fear going around.

John Hopkins (48:30)

With virtually every country across the continent left devastated by war, it's clear it will take more than street parties and fireworks to heal the wounds left by almost six years of destruction and brutality.

Keith Lowe (48:42)

In large parts of Europe, you've got no functioning governments, you've got no banks or schools or shops. Everything has been swept away by this cataclysmic event. Money was meaningless because there's nothing to buy in lots of places. And people have given up using money altogether. They're bartering with food or with cigarettes instead of money. You've got prostitution starting up everywhere because people are starving and women will do anything that they have to do in order to feed their kids. There's lawlessness everywhere you go because all the police forces have been swept away. So people are looting anything they could get their hands on, selling it on the black market. And then there are people who are angry. So people are taking revenge. They're angry at their neighbors, they're angry at collaborators, and they're really angry at Germans. You can pretty much do whatever you like to any German in Europe and get away with it at the time. So you've got this whole wave of vengeance that's sweeping across Europe in 1945 and beyond.

John Hopkins (49:48)

The Pacific War finally comes to an official close on September 2, 1945. But the end is brought about by the most terrible means available. Atomic bombs dropped on the Japanese cities of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Stunned by the price they have paid for it. The world begins to adjust to peace, but lessons have already been learned. The Allies are determined not to repeat the mistakes of the First World War, when crippling sanctions against Germany sowed the seeds for the rise of the Nazis. And whatever camaraderie the triumphant leaders managed to muster at Yalta soon cools as Stalin envelops his neighboring countries into the Soviet Union, cut off by what Churchill famously calls the Iron Curtain. Within a few months, the great British wartime leader will be voted out of office by many of the same people cheering him in the Mall on VE Day. And once the bonfires have cooled and the bunting has been taken down, the reality of post war life is not without its challenges.

Keith Lowe (50:58)

The anti climax was sort of fairly universal, not necessarily on VE Day, but in the days afterwards, because war, a war like that, especially a war so gigantic that it's a terrible event, but it's also kind of exciting. And there was, there was definitely. There's one veteran I spoke to who told me that he burst into tears on VE Day because, you know, it was all over and he didn't know what was going to happen and what was he was going to do with the rest of his life. The Second World War gave people a sense not only of purpose, but, but also of unity. The whole country has come together to fight this war. It's a war when they really genuinely are all in it together and they know it. So the whole country's come together and we've also come together with other countries. So, you know, we're all fighting together in this sort of grand purpose that we've all got. Once the war's over, VE Day's gone, that sense of purpose and that sense of unity sort of begins to dissolve and everybody starts squabbling again.

John Hopkins (52:07)

The Second World War was the bloodiest conflict in the history of the planet. It involved 100 million people from 30 countries and left an estimated 80 million people dead, the majority of them civilians. By its end, humanity had exacted some of the worst horrors ever to take place on Earth. Millions have been murdered in the Nazi camps, incinerated in firebombings or obliterated in atomic blasts. The war upended nations and an entire continent. It meant the destruction of economies and of cities that will take years to be rebuilt. But after VE Day, an international determination emerged, focusing this time on building a stable, more secure world. And though the decades that followed have certainly not been peaceful, a repeat of this global catastrophe has been avoided for the last 80 years, which is one very good reason why many people still mark VE Day, even when so few of those who were part of it are still with us.

Keith Lowe (53:14)

The generations who lived through that time, they saw things that we can only imagine now. And they learned things. They learned the importance of standing up for freedom and not backing down and really standing by democracy. They learned what racism leads to. They saw it. If you don't stand up to racism and bigotry, it ends in the concentration camps. They saw this. They knew that. But we have to remind ourselves of it every day. That's what VE Day teaches us, I think, to stand up for democracy, to stand up against racism, and to stand together with our allies rather than constantly sewing discord amongst each other.

John Hopkins (54:02)

Next time on Short History, we'll bring you a short history of the Anglo Saxons. By studying the Saxon period, we understand what is still in fact, very important to us today, which is the the regionality of of England. England isn't one single place, one single polity, but it's the combination of regions and identities with their own cultural traditions which are as distinct as the different topographies of the different parts of England. And by studying those dominant regional kingdoms of Saxon England and how they both.

Keith Lowe (54:40)

Battled and negotiated their way towards a.

John Hopkins (54:44)

Often rather troubled and rather unstable cohesive whole, is in fact, a story that resonates today. That's next time. If you can't wait a week until the next episode, you can listen to it right away by subscribing to Noiza. Head to www.noiza.comscriptions for more information. Find Mom's Best Gift at Target now through Mother's Day. Get up to 40% off gifts for her. Discover trendy apparel and swimwear that'll elevate any wardrobe, jewelry that'll make her smile shine brighter, and even chocolate that'll turn any moment into something sweeter. There are endless options to choose from to show her she's the best. Hurry.

Keith Lowe (55:28)

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