Oliver Hudson (2:59)

Hi, I'm Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

Narrator/Host (3:01)

We wanted to do something that highlighted.

Oliver Hudson (3:04)

Our relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are. A sibling rivalry. No, no, sibling rival for free.

OK Storytime Podcast Host (3:18)

Don't do that with your mouth.

Oliver Hudson (3:22)

Sibling revelry. That's good. I have been, and I've said this before, but like, I guess officially diagnosed with ADD or ADHD or whatever the it is. Whatever which, whichever letter you want to put in there. I don't know. I had a brain scan by this guy, Dr. Amon. He was on our podcast. We were on his podcast. It was incredible to sort of look at your brain and really in depth and see how it's functioning, see what kind of physical trauma has happened to it through concussions or even head, or even head bangs or whatever. And then, you know, getting into sort of the ADHD and you can see it. Anyway, point is, they gave me these patches and essentially it's amphetamine. And I tried one, you know, I've been doing one. I'm like, I think I feel okay, you know, I think I. I think I feel like more awake, I guess. But it's not like all of a sudden I'm sitting down on my computer and, and writing scripts and conquering the world. And then I tried two of them. They gave me a low dose, like a four and a half milligram. Then I tried another one. So I was nine. And I did that a couple days ago. And it was like, it was nutty. It was nutty because I'm not used to that. I'm not a speed guy, you know, like that amphetamine thing, like. And I couldn't decide whether I was gonna, you know, save the world or just sort of ball up and get in my bed and cry. I chose to save the world, but I want another. I went, I doubled it up today. I doubled it up today just for this. And let's see what happens. Let's see what happens. I can't even pronounce the name of it, of what's on what kind of weird patch I have on, but yeah. I'm on fire, baby. I'm on fire. So let's bring in to talk about my ADHD patches. Elise Myers, come on in. How are you?

Elise Myers (5:31)

Good. How are you?

Oliver Hudson (5:32)

I'm good. I was just doing, you know, I do a little intro before the show and I was just talking about how I did this brain scan.

Elise Myers (5:43)

Oh.

Oliver Hudson (5:43)

With this guy, Dr. Amen. And it was really incredible. And it was like a three day thing. They injured, they, they put an IV in you which he calls radioactive material. So great. Apparently you know, I'm Spider Man.

Elise Myers (5:58)

Okay. Spider Man.

Oliver Hudson (5:59)

And then they put you in the scan. Well actually they put the IV in and then they, they give you, they take you through a, on a computer screen. You have to do all of these sort of quizzes and tests and it sort of activating and stimulating your brain and then they put you in the, in the, in the, in the scan and, and then the next day you come back and you just relax. They put the radioactive material into your IV and then you kind of just relax. So there's a real mapping of how your brain is functioning given activity and given downtime.

Elise Myers (6:32)

Wow.

Oliver Hudson (6:32)

It's pretty. An intensive process all this to say that, you know, I've known it. But he's like, oh, you have ADD or ADHD or whatever one it is.

Elise Myers (6:41)

How does it feel to hear someone say that versus just having a suspicion?

Oliver Hudson (6:46)

I, it didn't matter to me.

Elise Myers (6:48)

Sure.

Oliver Hudson (6:49)

Personally, you know, because it wasn't there. There's so much to talk about because I'm on 20 grams of. 20 milligrams of Lexapro. Like I've been dealing with anxiety since I was in my mid-20s when I had my first sort of gnarly panic attack attack. So it all sort of understandably probably goes hand in hand. But it was never something that I needed a diagnosis for to make me.

Elise Myers (7:09)

Feel better necessarily like accommodation or anything.

Oliver Hudson (7:13)

Yeah. It was more of just. Oh yeah. I mean that makes sense.

Elise Myers (7:16)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (7:16)

You know, because it's always felt like I can grind and I can get after it. But there's this, there's this part of me that knows I have never reached my full potential because I, I felt like I was incapacitated somehow or I couldn't get through something.

Elise Myers (7:33)

Yeah. Do you feel like sometimes it's also helped you though to grind like that hyper fixation and that need for stimulation and all that?

Oliver Hudson (7:42)

Yes. See, it's funny because I don't think I have that part. I got all the, I got all the parts I didn't get this.

Elise Myers (7:48)

Really.

Oliver Hudson (7:49)

I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna sort of just lock in. There are moments when I can. But it's not that like hyper focus that I will see with people who have adhd.

Elise Myers (8:01)

Sure.

Oliver Hudson (8:02)

Just lock in. Anyway, they put me on these patches and it's. I forget what the it's called, but it's like an ADHD type of a patch. It's only four and a half milligrams.

Elise Myers (8:12)

Of like a stimulant.

Oliver Hudson (8:14)

It's a stimulant? Yeah, it's.

Elise Myers (8:15)

Oh, is it like.

Oliver Hudson (8:16)

It's an amphetamine? It's.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (8:17)

It's.

Oliver Hudson (8:17)

I think it's a derivative of Adderall. You know, it's like detromorphine or something.

Elise Myers (8:23)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oliver Hudson (8:24)

Some fiend. And, you know, I would feel good, but I think I feel awake or, you know, enough nothing. That was overpowering.

Elise Myers (8:35)

And then life changing.

Oliver Hudson (8:36)

I decided to double up and.

Elise Myers (8:39)

And is that where we're at today?

Oliver Hudson (8:40)

I don't know. I mean, I tried it today too, but two days ago I tried it and it was definitely a trip. You know, it was really a little anxiety, a little like, holy. You know what I mean? Like, can I conquer the world or do I need to crawl up into a ball here? You know, it was. It was this oscillating sort of feeling that's.

Elise Myers (8:58)

It's so, it's. I have been medicated for my ADHD since I was 16 and it's so. It's like now it's such a part of my life that I. I can't believe I ever went without being medicated. It's like, it's. It's an on and off switch and it's like, just makes me baseline. So it's so. It's cool to find things that work. And so I'm curious to know if the 4 milligrams is, is helpful for you or if it's 8 or nothing.

Oliver Hudson (9:23)

Yeah, I don't know. I have to figure that one out. I have to figure out if an amphetamine is something that I can vibe with or not. You know, I also think I need to create a task to almost as a, as a trial period, say I'm not just going to put a patch on and go through my day, right. I'm going to take this medication and sit down and write a script or I am going to clean the.

Elise Myers (9:47)

Standardize it.

Oliver Hudson (9:47)

Yeah, standardize it. Exactly.

Elise Myers (9:49)

I love that. I like that that's how your brain works. It's really cool.

Oliver Hudson (9:53)

Yeah. I mean, all of this to say, this is very timely and I'm happy you're here because you.

Elise Myers (9:57)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (9:58)

You know, this is. This is what you do. This is what you are. This is why you are who you are. And so I'm curious to sort of even know, starting at the beginning of this, I. How did you discover that you sort of felt this way? I read that you had your first panic attack at 7 years old, and.

Elise Myers (10:16)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (10:17)

You know, so how did you come into this?

Elise Myers (10:20)

The adhd?

Oliver Hudson (10:21)

Just in general, you know, I mean, my pan. First panic attack was at 25, you know, at 7. Do you even know what's happening to you at that point? No.

Elise Myers (10:30)

The only way I knew what was happening to me was because I have much older brothers, so they're seven, eight, and ten years older than me. And all of us have some flavor of anxiety or, you know, neuro, not like neurodivergence in some way. And so what I. I was. I was having what I kept saying, like, I think I'm having a heart attack and. And. Or a stroke or something is what I had said. And I couldn't catch my breath, and I wanted to cry, but I couldn't cry. I felt like I was like being suffocated by needing to cry. And my brother goes, just try coughing. Just. All you need to do is like. Because that was what he. What helped him get a panic attack out. And it like, kind of jolts your heart to start pumping normally. So I started coughing and it worked. And he goes, yep, you're having a panic attack. And I was like, what is that? You know, and he walked me through it. And yeah, I think I just grew up in a household where it was very. I mean, we all had to go to therapy because of my parents divorce very early. So medical clinical help was around. And that terminology was around very early, earlier than I maybe even like, should have been, just because I was kind of the outlier of, like, the ages of what was happening. So I was lumped into conversations that were just like a little older, but then it wasn't until. So that was like the anxiety and the depression kind of part. And we weren't sure. Was it chemical? Is it like situational with the home situation? But then when I was 16, it was really fascinating. I was becoming, like, very obsessive over trying to, like, study. And I, like, was presenting essentially as like, someone with, like, adhd, like very high, high, hyperactive, like adhd. And I was failing all my classes, and I had Gotten treatment for, like, body image eating stuff at like, 15ish. And I was. I was going through the outpatient process of the therapy where one of the psychologists was like, have you ever been assessed for adhd? And I was like, no. And he's like, it's so funny because. Not funny, but it's so interesting because I see so much overlap in young girls that struggle with obsessive, like, food stuff and body stuff with neurodivergence, and there's actually so much more overlap than people understand. And he's like, a lot of this, I think, would really resolve for you if you just got on a very small, small dose of something that could just connect the wires in your brain that aren't firing together that should be. And I got assessed, I went on meds, and it was like, for the very first time in my life, I was not being dragged behind my own mind. I was in the car in the driver's seat, and I controlled how fast we were going or slow, if the windows were up or down, if the radio was on, who was in my car. And it was like, I think that this is how people probably just feel all the time. It was pretty powerful for me. And then I never really went back. It was just. It was. It was like I felt like, okay, now my life is starting. And it was really cool. I think that for me, that diagnosis was helpful because it allowed me to make changes in my life that. That shifted and built my life in a way that served me rather than me trying to fit my life in a way that made sense to other people. So that's why that was helpful to me.

Oliver Hudson (13:53)

What did it feel like to you before those meds reconnected those wires, you know?

Elise Myers (14:01)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (14:02)

What was that feeling?

Elise Myers (14:04)

It was like, you know, when you over caffeinate yourself and you're sitting there and you're like, cold sweating and you're talking to someone, you keep cutting yourself off. It would feel like everything was bottlenecking in me, like, every. Every thought and feeling. And I think I tried to get out. It would make me so anxious. I would just be, like, silent because I was trying to prioritize which thoughts were important to share and which weren't. And I had no filter. And I still don't. Like, a lot of these things are just me as well, so I'm not. I don't want to take those away. But it allowed me to decide and slow my brain down a little bit and decide which thoughts I was going to share and which strings I was going to pull at. In conversation. It wasn't like I was just frantically trying to like hold on to every single rope around me, you know, and, and hang on.

Oliver Hudson (14:57)

Were you aware that you were feeling these things and it was not necessarily normal? Or was it normal for you? Or were you. Did you understand that something's off here? I have to figure this out.

Elise Myers (15:12)

I for sure felt like something was off. Not because I thought it was anything fixable. I just thought it was really stupid. Like I thought I was a bad student. I thought I was selfish. I mean when that I couldn't. I couldn't focus on someone. I'm like, am I just self, self absorbed that like I can't pay attention to you and hear what you're saying long enough for me to get my own thoughts out of the way? Like I felt lazy because I couldn't focus on anything long enough? So I'm like, what if I just don't love it? I can't do it. Which is just. Yeah, it's like. And that there's a lot of shame attached to that as well. And I wanted to be good and I wanted to be liked and I wanted to be successful and I wanted people to be proud of me. And it felt like I just wasn't going to be a person that could do things and achieve things and I didn't fit the way I wanted to. And though it wasn't a one to one output of like how hard I was working versus the results of what I was getting and it just felt like I was kind of swimming upstream the whole time. But never once was I. Like something can be fixed in this. I just internalize that as this is. I'm just bad all around. Like that's essentially the main takeaway. It was I'm just bad and.

Oliver Hudson (16:24)

But just this is who I am.

Elise Myers (16:25)

Yeah, I'm just, I'm bad. I'm bad student, bad listener. Everything.

Oliver Hudson (16:29)

Did you have moments of, of clarity? Those sort of, you know, Eddie's in the, in the, in the stream where all of a sudden you're like holy shit, I'm in.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (16:39)

I'm in.

Oliver Hudson (16:39)

I'm in. I'm focusing, I'm on it. And then boom, it goes away.

Elise Myers (16:43)

Like unmedicated.

Oliver Hudson (16:44)

Unmedicated.

Elise Myers (16:45)

Yeah, definitely. So that's where like for me. So I'm also autistic and there's a lot of overlap in those. Which is cool because sometimes my, my special interests and my. And like hyper fixations of, of me and my autism would supersede my inability to Focus. So I would get into these moments. Like so great example is I learned viola. I'm classically trained violist and I started when I was really young and I would lock myself in my room and play for 10 hours. Like I wouldn't drink water, I wouldn't eat. I like that obsessive hyper fixation when people that are autistic have special interests. Like that is very a common pattern. And so I did have those bursts of like, okay, it's not, it's not, it's not all the time me. But it almost made it harder because then when I couldn't force myself to do that in other areas, I didn't understand why. So that's when it was like, oh, so. And also to other people, they didn't understand why. Like, why can you sit and play Viola for 10 hours, but all you need to do is sit and do your Math homework for 30 minutes and you just keep getting up and you have to pee and you have to go water. And you're like, I'm maybe in a snack. And it's like, I just couldn't lock in. So it almost made it harder that I experienced those little bits of goodness because then it's like, well, it is really my fault then.

Oliver Hudson (18:17)

Yeah.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (18:24)

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Oliver Hudson (18:25)

I golf.

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It's what I do.

Oliver Hudson (18:26)

And Arizona has incredible golfing, especially Scottsdale.

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And the fall is the best time.

Oliver Hudson (18:32)

To go golf in Scottsdale and Arizona.

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Oliver Hudson (18:37)

A serene escape, fewer crowds than that time of year. And the weather is amazing. So the city is always bustling during the major event season, like spring training or the WM Phoenix Open, which I've been to.

Narrator/Host (18:49)

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Oliver Hudson (18:58)

And did you know Scottsdale is home to more than 200 area golf courses? Yeah. Told you. This is why I'm going. Go play golf. World class golf.

Narrator/Host (19:06)

There's also Scottsdale's Old Town district. All walkable with world class shops and restaurants. You won't be bored.

Oliver Hudson (19:13)

There's still tons to do there in the fall.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (19:16)

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Oliver Hudson (19:19)

Canal Convergence is a cool annual art event at the Scottsdale waterfront. And it gets decked out for the holidays, including Scott's Dazzle when Old Town.

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Oliver Hudson (19:30)

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Oliver Hudson (22:37)

How much of this do you think is sort of a circumstantial like you talked about before, and how much does genetics play into this?

Elise Myers (22:45)

I mean, that's a probably a question for a doctor.

Oliver Hudson (22:47)

I was about to say, is there science on that? You know?

Elise Myers (22:51)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (22:51)

I mean, I know my mother was dealing with anxiety. You know, my son wilder is now 18. When he was 13 years old, he went through about where he just felt. He kept saying to me, dad, I don't feel real. Which is that disassociation, you know, which I could completely relate to because when I was going through my, you know, every now and again, it's like, I'm not, I don't think I'm on this earth right now. Like, what the.

Elise Myers (23:17)

And it's, and you can't really explain that to someone that's never experienced it because you're not like having an outer body experience. It's like you're, you're. It almost is like this hopelessness when I experience that. You feel like you're like, this is the routine of every single day. And I don't feel like a real human being. I'm like, I've checked out and I'm just, It's happening to me and through me, but I'm not here. Like, that feeling is so crazy. I don't know. Genetically, I mean, definitely there's science that links genetics with, with mental health and neurodivergence, which is why, when that's, which is why I got diagnosed as autistic or why I pursued a diagnosis even though I knew I was. Because when my sons go to be assessed one day, if they do, it's so much easier to get in. And the wait list is so like years long.

Oliver Hudson (24:03)

Really.

Elise Myers (24:04)

Yes. I had to personally wait eight months and I'm in Nebraska where there's no waiting list for like anything. And I still had to wait eight months. And then the process is like seven to eight months long because you have to keep going back. It is such an intense process.

Oliver Hudson (24:19)

Why, why is it, why is the waiting list so long? Is this bureaucracy shit?

Elise Myers (24:24)

I think, well, for adults it's because. Why does it matter? Why do you need to know? There's also no medication to like heal it or fix it. There's like some, there's some things you can take, but there's no like here you're autistic, here's meds, you know. But I think, I think that also like the assessment process is so long and arduous and it takes a very specifically trained, a professional and there's not a lot of them because I think that it's very recent that people have realized how prevalent neurodivergence is. I think it's very easy to diagnose a 10 year old boy because they present very differently than women do. And so I think we're just now starting to get into a different season of the neurodivergent world where we're seeing it earlier and we're able to get more people trained to accommodate. I think it's really important that young people have access to that because my life would have been drastically different if I would have just given, been given a little bit different of a setup, like anything, like being able to self teach, like being able to have a little control over my schedule. Any, any of it. I just wouldn't have felt like I was bad. That would have changed my self esteem my whole life.

Oliver Hudson (25:43)

Sure. And obviously information is, is so powerful as far as the way that you think and feel about yourself and who you are. If there is a diagnosis where it's like, oh, okay, this is who I am. Yeah, this is, I'm okay now. This is not, I'm not just sort of floating in the ether right now.

Elise Myers (26:03)

Totally.

Oliver Hudson (26:03)

I can get my feet on the ground with this.

Elise Myers (26:05)

Yeah. How long have you been interested in pursuing this? Like why did you go to that brain scan?

Oliver Hudson (26:11)

I'm an actor, but like I, if I was not, I would love to be in the world of psychology. I just love the human condition. It's so interesting to me how we are all made up of the same stuff, but we're so drastically, you know, diverse in how we feel and how we think and how we act and how we respond to certain things, our sensitivities, you know, all of that. And I think that honestly stems from my first bout with anxiety, which was in my mid-20s.

Elise Myers (26:41)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (26:42)

And it, it came from wanting to be Better and just feel like myself again. And then once I had a grip on that, then it just became more interested and fascinated in sort of the world of it in the brain and why this is happening. But to get over my first bout, I just wrote a ton in my journal and I was heavy meditating and go up to my rock, you know, every day in sort of wilderness and I would just get quiet and write and then I got through it. But there was this residual feeling of unease. And that's when I went on Selexa and that's when it sort of took everything away.

Elise Myers (27:22)

Do you find that you being creative helps you when you're in those seasons or do you feel like your creativity is gone when you're in that season?

Oliver Hudson (27:29)

No, it helps when I'm pen to paper, for me is always great. My expression, personal, like in person expression vulnerability has always been tough for me in person. I've always been able to express myself through the written word. It's much easier for me. I like to write. It feels good to write.

Elise Myers (27:48)

Yeah. I have to take breaks from therapy because I find like I've, I've. I'm over therapized sometimes because it makes me very intellectual about what I'm doing. But, but like understanding your feelings is not the same thing as processing and feeling them. Like, yeah, that is actually a complete, like run away from it. Because you're like, well, if I can figure it out, then I'm good. And it's like, no, sometimes literally it is trapped in your body and you need to get it out. Like, you have got to get it out. It is poison. And so learning how to feel things, I'm. I'm in that process right now.

Cal Penn (28:28)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (28:28)

Because I can tell you every single thing of why I do it. But like, I will go numb before I actually feel it and I stonewall. I'm not a yeller. I'm not. I will just like do me. Like fool me once you're dead to me.

Oliver Hudson (28:44)

Yeah.

Cal Penn (28:44)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (28:44)

Like that's really where I, how I operate. And so I'm learning how to not do that. But it's really hard because it can feel like you have to go through this purging process of like over feeling things.

Oliver Hudson (28:57)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (28:57)

To the point where you're like, okay, one day this is going to stabilize. But right now everything is making me feel too much and it's overwhelming and I get over stimulated.

Oliver Hudson (29:05)

I completely understand that. Because that over therapy thing, I haven't been in therapy in a little bit because of that too it's like, all right, let me just take a break from all of this. You know, and sometimes when I get into a state of anxiety, which even can happen when you're on meds, you know, it's not hard to deal with. And I. I'm like a seasoned veteran, so if some shit comes up, I'm like, okay, I know what it is.

Elise Myers (29:25)

I can see it coming from a mile away. I can, like, feel it in the air.

Oliver Hudson (29:30)

Yes. I can feel it. And instead of being like, oh, well, it's this, this, and this, your brain starts to tick off all of the past therapies and. And books you've read and articles and finally, like, oliver, shut up. Just exist.

Elise Myers (29:45)

Just exist.

Oliver Hudson (29:46)

Just exist and. And just roll with it. You're good. Just.

Elise Myers (29:49)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (29:49)

And exist because they can. You can ruminate on all of the potential lessons and. And all the remedies that you have in your brain to help yourself feel better, instead of just saying, just chill for a second.

Elise Myers (30:02)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (30:03)

Yeah. I think.

Elise Myers (30:04)

I think, like, it's. It's. It's really transformed my brain chemistry, literally, to be married to somebody who, like, actually loves me. And when he says that, he means it, and he loves all of it. Like, all of the seasons that we can feel coming from a mile away. Like, for. For me to be in that season, I think that, like, my. At least my experience, I want to ruminate and fix it because I feel like a problem to people, and I feel like I'm a burden, and I feel like people are watching me go through this, and it's like, fine for a little bit, but if it goes longer than a little bit, then it's like, okay, can you just get back? Like, where did. Where'd the other Elise go? Like, I want her back now. You know, it's like, we're done. We're good. And so I. I work really hard at, like, okay, why am I this way? And let me fix it. Let me go to therapy. Let me just change my diet again and, like, start working out. And I think, like, being partnered, like, life partnered with someone, like, where. So where I'm having a down day and I'm crying and I'm apologizing because I'm like, I don't know why. I don't know what's going on. He'll just look at me and be like, you don't need to know. You don't need to explain it to me or to yourself. You don't need to explain it to our boys. Like, if you just don't feel good. And you feel like it would be better if you just laid in bed for a little bit and we close the blinds and you watched a stupid show that turned your brain off. Like, you don't need to explain why.

Oliver Hudson (31:24)

Right.

Elise Myers (31:25)

And just the permission to not have to know almost immediately, like, relieves the pressure and the things have more space to be like. It's like the tank was immediately just like grown and that it just dissolves a little bit, you know, it's like thinner and lighter and.

Oliver Hudson (31:44)

Well, it's interesting. But you know, in your journey and in my journey and I don't know whether you talk about this in your book as well, but, you know, the spouse or the person on the other side of it is so important to everything that you are, you know. And my wife Aaron is amazing that way. When it was first happening though, in our 20s, when we were just dating, scary it was for her. She was extremely compassionate. But at the same time, like, what's wrong? Like, your life is good. Like, you're a success, you're acting as successful. You come from a good family. Like, we're in love. Like, what's going on?

Elise Myers (32:20)

Yeah, yeah.

Oliver Hudson (32:20)

I don't know. I don't know. I'm just crazy. But at least I feel crazy. And then, you know, there's been. There's been two or three other like, you know, month plus long bouts of it and it's just. She's just there.

Elise Myers (32:36)

Yeah, Just.

Oliver Hudson (32:36)

Just be there. You know, we all deal with it differently. You know, I don't need to be told you're going to be okay or anything like that. It seems you to be present with me.

Elise Myers (32:45)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (32:45)

And I can imagine it can get difficult too, where it can get frustrating.

Elise Myers (32:48)

Where it's like, I think they've got to learn they don't have to fix us. Like, they don't have to. There's nothing you can do. So it's like, it's. But I bet that. I bet they go through that as well of like trying to figure out how to support without being overbearing and not also making it worse because it's like, let me be. Let me fix you. And it's like, well, I'm not a project to be fixed. So it's like, yeah, it's like I empathize so much with. With partners that of people like us, I guess, that are going through it.

Oliver Hudson (33:16)

But how old are your kids?

Elise Myers (33:18)

So my kids are 4 and 2 and one of them's name is Oliver, so it's really cool. I'm like, oh my gosh, Oliver's amazing. A grown adult one day.

Oliver Hudson (33:25)

I love that.

Elise Myers (33:26)

Yeah.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (33:32)

So yeah, I'm a golfer.

Oliver Hudson (33:33)

I golf.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (33:34)

It's what I do.

Oliver Hudson (33:35)

And Arizona has incredible golfing, especially Scottsdale.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (33:39)

And the fall is the best time.

Oliver Hudson (33:40)

To go golf in Scottsdale and Arizona.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (33:43)

You know what? If you're looking for a serene escape.

Oliver Hudson (33:46)

Fewer crowds than that time of year. And the weather is amazing. So the city is always bustling during the major event season, like spring training or the WM Phoenix Open, which I've been to.

Narrator/Host (33:58)

Sometimes you want a more relaxed getaway, and in fall, Scottsdale can be all about you. It's perfect for hiking, yoga, guided meditations, horizons, horseback riding, and did you know.

Oliver Hudson (34:07)

Scottsdale is home to more than 200 area golf courses? Yeah. Told you. This is why I'm going. Go play golf. World class golf.

Narrator/Host (34:15)

There's also Scottsdale's Old Town District. All walkable with world class shops and restaurants. You won't be bored.

Oliver Hudson (34:22)

There's still tons to do there in the fall. Dreamy Draw Music Festival is always a good vibe. Canal Convergence is a cool annual art event at the Scottsdale waterfront and it gets decked out for the holidays, including Scott's Dazzle when Old Town gets all festive and all lit. So you gotta go visit unwindinscotsdale.com today.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (34:44)

This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping. When you want to make the most of your money, head to the PayPal app before you check out. They give you the flexibility to pay in four no fees, no interest.

Oliver Hudson (34:56)

And this is big.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (34:57)

You can get 5% cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether you're shopping for a gift for the kids, your spouse, or one for yourself, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Save the offer in the PayPal app expires 1231. See paypal.com promoterms Subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com Paying for PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457 do you like free money?

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Elise Myers (36:53)

All I know is what I've been told and that to half truth is a whole lie.

Maggie Freeling (36:58)

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

Elise Myers (37:14)

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

Maggie Freeling (37:16)

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

Cal Penn (37:25)

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

Maggie Freeling (37:32)

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

Elise Myers (37:43)

I did not know her and I.

Cal Penn (37:44)

Did not kill her or rape or.

Oliver Hudson (37:46)

Burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

Elise Myers (37:48)

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

Maggie Freeling (37:56)

From Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

Oliver Hudson (38:06)

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

Maggie Freeling (38:15)

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcast.

Oliver Hudson (38:41)

Are you aware of like who you are in front of your kids? Do you just be who you are? Do you if you are going through something, do you show them that you know? Are you just fully transparent as as.

Elise Myers (38:57)

Much as I can be where and with language that they can understand at 4 and 2, but mostly 4. But my. My oldest, August, he. Me and him. He is. I'm Jonas's DNA. Didn't even try with this one. You know, it's like he. Oliver is all him. August is all me.

Oliver Hudson (39:14)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (39:15)

And with that, man, like, because of that, the best and worst. Worst parts of us. Not worst, but, you know, best and, like, hardest just butt heads. And I have learned, like, he is going to learn how to handle his overstimulation and his anxiety and hopefully not depression. But, like, if. If we are as similar as I think we are, I. He is going to have an incredible and very emotionally, like, heavy life if he doesn't learn how to navigate it.

Oliver Hudson (39:47)

Can you see that? Can you witness that in him being who you are? Yeah, right.

Elise Myers (39:53)

He. He is obsessed with trash trucks. And it's not. When I say that, I mean, he knows the name of every single trash truck driver in my. My greater Omaha area. He. We have pictures of. We've gone. We've. We've gone to the plant where all of them are parked in the city and gotten a tour. And he knows the names on the doors because they put the names on the doors. He has had a birthday party since he. His first birthday of trash trucks. We have trash cans. Like, it's his life. He wants to be a trash truck driver.

Oliver Hudson (40:24)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (40:25)

And. And he feels things so deeply, and a lot of them are trash truck related because that's the one thing he's very invested in. So his high highs and low lows are all about that. And I have watched him, like, start weeping silently because he thought the truck was so beautiful, that he was like, I just can't believe I only get to see it once a week. And when I get to see it, I'm so, like, lucky that I was out here when it drove by. And when the trash truck, like, honks at him, he looks back at me like, did you just see the best thing that's ever happened to me? Like, you were here when you saw that. And, like, I like the awe and wonder in him that I hope he never loses, but that, like, I have in me that people get annoyed with because someone that has a lot of awe and wonder and that empathy, that feeling deeply is, like, really fun until they're stopping you because they want to take a picture of something that doesn't really matter because they want to remember this moment forever. And so I just try and celebrate all of that in him. But also there's the flip side of it, where it's like, things like a tag on his shirt will cause him to spiral. And I'm up in the middle of the night with scissors cutting every tag off of his shirt and looking on Amazon for shirts that are less scratchy. And it's like, I have got. I have got. That is. That is the same part in him that is weeping at a garbage truck because it was so beautiful that he got to see it once a week. That is his brain. It's so beautiful. And so I see a lot of that, the potential for very small, seemingly small to other people. Things spiral to the point where you can't escape it by yourself, and you need someone else to come in and help you dig yourself out of that hole.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (42:10)

Now, for some.

Oliver Hudson (42:11)

For someone who. Who understands this better than anybody. And now you. Your child is feeling these things. Do you parent him a little bit differently, knowing how to sort of navigate potentially who he is because he's your offspring?

Elise Myers (42:29)

Yeah, I try. I. I try and just get him to try and communicate with me because oftentimes the things that are happening, I'm, like, angry at. Because you're like, I'm tired. I mean, all that.

Oliver Hudson (42:40)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (42:40)

But, like, I am so keenly aware of how I had. I did not even. I wasn't even close. I didn't have what I needed when I was his age. And I see myself when I get angry at things that I was. People were angry at me for. It is so sobering. And it is just this constant gut check. Parenthood is like. I mean, the most wild experience. Oh, gosh, it's terrible. I have breakdowns so often of, like, am I just him up so badly? Like, is he gonna look back and be like, she was a terrible mom? And, like, what stories is he gonna tell his therapist one day? You know, it's like, I'm sure he's gonna have some. We all have some.

Oliver Hudson (43:23)

Of course. I always say it's not about if we up our kids.

Elise Myers (43:26)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (43:26)

To what degree?

Elise Myers (43:27)

Yeah. And I hope it's less than I. You know.

Oliver Hudson (43:30)

Yeah. Yeah.

Elise Myers (43:30)

But. But. But it's really cool because it. And I. Okay. And I will say, you know, people say when you have kids, it makes. It helps you understand your parents better. I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that at all.

Oliver Hudson (43:44)

It.

Elise Myers (43:44)

I have never understood them less because. Am I overwhelmed? Yeah. Do I have panic attacks? Yeah. Do I yell and I. I mess up sometimes? Yeah. There is absolutely nothing I wouldn't do for those kids. Nothing. Nothing. And that I could. I can't. I can't actually say that about the people that were in charge of raising me.

Oliver Hudson (44:08)

I don't disagree. You know, I mean, because my dad bailed, but I. Kurt came into my life. He's my stepdad.

Elise Myers (44:13)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (44:13)

So I have a family. My mom is amazing and all of that, you know, But I remember at a young age, very young age, talking to my mom and thinking, I am never gonna leave my children. I will never do that, you know?

Elise Myers (44:26)

Yeah. Just deciding like that.

Oliver Hudson (44:28)

Yeah. This wasn't your decision to be made there.

Elise Myers (44:30)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (44:30)

Yeah. What I did understand about my parents, and I'm talking about Kurt, my mom now, and even my dad, because my dad and I are connecting now more than ever.

Elise Myers (44:38)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (44:38)

After a billion years, which is nice. I just had a dream about him last night, by the way, which is crazy. Yeah. But so I did. Once I had kids, I understood the love that they have.

Elise Myers (44:52)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (44:53)

Because when mom and Pa were like, you know, they're. They're. They melt over you when you're a teenager. When you're younger, you're like, okay, like, I get it. I love you so much. You're like. And now I'm like, I understand that now because I'm like that with my kids. And they're the same way. Like, dad, like, just stop hugging me. I'm like, okay, I can't. I'm sorry.

Elise Myers (45:11)

In 18, you don't even look old enough to have an 18 year old. But you said 18. I was like, what the hell? But, like, is that crazy? Like, you're like, I still. Do you still see the baby?

Oliver Hudson (45:19)

Oh, it's crazy. It's devastating. He's going to college next year. You know, I'm gonna need some heavy consoling, you know?

Elise Myers (45:26)

Do you only have one?

Oliver Hudson (45:27)

I have three. I've seen 15, and then my little girl's 12. Yeah. And they're all amazing kids. And, you know, Wilder, my oldest, is my sensitive one. Like, he. Same thing with the tags. When he was a baby. He's like, you know, he's got a sensitivity thing.

Elise Myers (45:44)

Yeah. Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (45:45)

He's got. He. He's got sort of. He's got some health anxiety. So every five seconds he goes, I need an mri. Like, I need a CAT scan. I'm like, wilder, you don't.

Elise Myers (45:53)

But, oh, you know, I feel that so deeply, dude. I feel that's so deep.

Oliver Hudson (45:57)

No, I know. I do, too. And. And. And my wife Aaron's like, like, oh, I wonder where that comes from. I. I know, I know.

Elise Myers (46:03)

We always do the. That one's. Or that one's mine.

Oliver Hudson (46:05)

Oh.

Elise Myers (46:06)

Like, we never. We never point to, like, that one's yours. Because I. We don't want him to feel like we're, like, judging. But anytime August says anything, like, I think we should go to the doctors, I'm like, that one's mine.

Oliver Hudson (46:15)

Yeah, yeah. No, I know. It's my son, Wilder. It's like everything is. And meanwhile, my middle one says nothing about the way he feels. And then six months later, he's like, yeah, my back's been really killing me for about six months. I'm like, well, why didn't you tell me?

Elise Myers (46:29)

Yeah, we could have fix this class. Middle child.

Oliver Hudson (46:32)

Yeah. Yeah. But I am. And in. Wilder got that from me. I am very sensitive, like, feeling wise. Like, I'm very emotional and, you know, feeling other people's feelings, and I think that's part of what screws me up. Sometimes it's like. Sometimes it's just overwhelming energy, but it's also a gift.

Elise Myers (46:52)

Like, it. It allows you to gauge the temperature of a room. It allows you to be good at acting, writing. And it's the very thing. It's like the thing that makes me so good at my job could also destroy me. So I've got to keep it in check.

Oliver Hudson (47:03)

It's so true. And. And you have to sort of change it, turn it into more of a superpower than. Than an affliction. Same with the add, you know?

Elise Myers (47:10)

Yeah, totally.

Oliver Hudson (47:10)

It can be a very powerful, beautiful, creative.

Elise Myers (47:13)

Yeah, you know, of course. Yeah. I think I was going to ask. With your job, like, do you feel like you get. You can lose yourself to the feeling of it, to the point where you realize you've accidentally, like, on purpose, put yourself in at that position for a role or.

Oliver Hudson (47:31)

It's funny. It's a great, great question, because it's something that I wish I could do more of. So there's. You're wrestling. I'm wrestling with two things, going back to the sort of the Hoffman situation, to where I felt stupid. There's a part of me that if I was to truly let go and immerse myself and do it poorly, even though it was my truth, but I wasn't good, or at least I. My perception of myself wasn't that. That it wasn't good, then people would not like me. People would be like, oh, he's not. He's not. What did he do there? So it's, it's, it's. It's safer for me to play it safe.

Elise Myers (48:12)

Totally.

Oliver Hudson (48:13)

I wish I have. Yeah. I wish I didn't. I wish I didn't care. You know, my dad. My whole family are actors, and my brother, and even Kate and Cur, they don't give a. It's like this. I don't give a attitude, which is such a nice way to approach it.

Elise Myers (48:26)

Where do you fall in the lineup of the. Of your ages?

Oliver Hudson (48:29)

I'm the oldest.

Elise Myers (48:30)

You're the oldest?

Oliver Hudson (48:31)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (48:31)

Okay. Okay. That. That to me makes sense because it's like, I feel like you've always lived your life with an audience. These little kiddos are looking up to you, even though you guys aren't like very. The age differences aren't crazy, right?

Oliver Hudson (48:44)

Of my siblings.

Elise Myers (48:45)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (48:46)

No, no. I mean, well, Wyatt, my, my. He's my half, so he's 10 years, but Kate and I are blood. And then I've got half.

Elise Myers (48:53)

Okay.

Oliver Hudson (48:54)

You know.

Elise Myers (48:54)

And how. How much older are you than Kate?

Oliver Hudson (48:56)

Two and a half years.

Elise Myers (48:57)

Yeah. So it's like, it's just enough to where you're like. I mean, two and a half years in grade school is a lot because that's like, you know, senior and sophomore or junior, Like a freshman or sophomore?

Oliver Hudson (49:11)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (49:12)

It's like.

Oliver Hudson (49:12)

Yeah, it's like. It's like sophomore, senior.

Elise Myers (49:16)

Yeah. So at those ages, which is when a lot of your identity and like the things that you will carry forever or like being formed as like a person, an individual, it's like you were constantly doing that. Almost like a trailblazer for someone that was younger than you, that was watching you. And so like, to fail would mean, like, I'm not giving a good example. And also, like, I've got to get it right. But you don't have anyone to look at that's doing it before you. And so it's like that fear of, like, I just have to get it right and I don't want to be embarrassed and I want people. People to think I'm good is like, I. I can't imagine that that doesn't at least play a little bit of.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (49:52)

Yeah, for sure.

Oliver Hudson (49:53)

And 100. And. And just this idea that, you know, going even deeper. Dad left because I wasn't lovable, which is ridiculous. But as a little, as a five year old, that's what you take it as. So if I can not rock a boat, if I can just sort of be cool and have no one dislike me, then I'm safe.

Elise Myers (50:14)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (50:15)

You know what I mean? I'm safe.

Elise Myers (50:17)

Do you Find that you also are, like, you were passive as a kid or.

Oliver Hudson (50:21)

No, yeah, I was. It was. It was a little bit of both. I mean, until Kurt came into my life, I was very mama's boy. I was very shy. And then he brought me to Colorado and sort of taught me independence, you know, some tough lessons that were great lessons of just feeling alone and having panic, but understanding, like, there's no need to, because I can get us home, you know, and just. Just, you know, just this sort of just advocating for myself at a young age, knowing that I was stronger than I was, you know, those are the things that he gave me. I was. I was five years, six years old. Six years old when he came in, sort of six, seven years old when he sort of became my stepdad.

Elise Myers (51:03)

That's really beautiful that, like, you. You still got that in somebody. And it was, like, almost even. It's powerful when, like, he's not your blood, but he loved you and led you and treated you like you were so important that, like, just because you aren't my, like, blood relative, like, you are important enough for me to care for.

Oliver Hudson (51:21)

Oh, yeah.

Elise Myers (51:21)

Really? Really?

Oliver Hudson (51:22)

Yeah. He understood the circumstances as well. He basically came to us as kids and said, hey, no matter what happens with me and your mom, because life is life. Who the hell knows? But I will never leave you. I will always be here for you, whatever happens. But, you know, it was at that young age where he reassured us that there will always be a man in your life, no matter what happens with me and your mother.

Cal Penn (51:46)

Right.

Elise Myers (51:46)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (51:46)

And we believed him, you know, and. Yeah, you know, so far, so good, man.

Elise Myers (51:51)

I think that, like, I don't really give credit to how. Because I. I've. It's not a reality for me to, like, have older figures, except my brothers, to really look up to that. I forget how important it is, you know, like, this, like, longing in you to have that. I forget that. It's like, yeah, no wonder, you know, like.

Oliver Hudson (52:14)

You know what I mean?

Elise Myers (52:14)

Like, I just. Hearing this, I actually can't fathom it. I can't fathom that experience that you've had with Kirk. And so, yeah, it. I think it's really sobering for me to hear that because it's like, just be a little easier on yourself. It's all good. Like. Yeah, it's all good, buddy. Like, you. You're figuring it out, and you're doing a great job because you're doing this from scratch. And so.

Oliver Hudson (52:34)

Yeah, exactly.

Elise Myers (52:35)

It's a. It's. It's really helpful.

Oliver Hudson (52:37)

This is what I was saying before. It's like, it's so interesting. The human condition is so interesting.

Elise Myers (52:42)

Yeah.

Oliver Hudson (52:42)

Perspective. I just love it. It just gets me going.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (52:51)

So yeah, I'm a golfer.

Oliver Hudson (52:52)

I golf.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (52:53)

It's what I do.

Oliver Hudson (52:54)

And Arizona has incredible golfing, especially Scottsdale.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (52:58)

And the fall is the best time.

Oliver Hudson (52:59)

To go golf in Scottsdale and Arizona.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (53:02)

You know what? If you're looking for a serene escape.

Oliver Hudson (53:05)

Fewer crowds than that time of year. And the weather is amazing. So the city is always bustling during the major event season, like spring training or the WM Phoenix Open, which I've been to.

Narrator/Host (53:17)

Sometimes you want a more relaxed getaway. And in fall, Scottsdale can be all about you. It's perfect for hiking, yoga, guided meditations, horseback riding.

Oliver Hudson (53:25)

And did you know Scottsdale is home to more than 200 area golf courses? Mm, yeah. Told you. This is why I'm going. Go play golf. World class golf.

Narrator/Host (53:34)

There's also Scottsdale's Old Town district. All walkable with world class shops and restaurants. You won't be bored.

Oliver Hudson (53:41)

There's still tons to do there in the fall.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (53:43)

Dreamy Draw Music Festival is always a good vibe.

Oliver Hudson (53:47)

Canal Convergence is a cool annual art event at the Scottsdale waterfront. And it gets decked out for the holidays, including Scott's Dazzle when Old Town.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (53:55)

Gets all festive and all lit.

Oliver Hudson (53:57)

So you gotta go visit unwindinscotsdale.com today.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (54:03)

This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping. When you want to make the most of your money, head to the PayPal app before you check out. They give you the flexibility to pay in four no fees, no interest.

Oliver Hudson (54:15)

And this is big.

Sponsor Voice/Ad Reader (54:16)

You can get 5% cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether you're shopping for a gift for the kids, your spouse, or one for yourself, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Save the offer in the PayPal app expires 1231. See paypal.com promoterms Subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com Pain for PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457 do you actually know Ball?

Better Picks Ad Voice (54:40)

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Elise Myers (55:58)

All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie.

Maggie Freeling (56:03)

For almost a day decade the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

Elise Myers (56:19)

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

Maggie Freeling (56:21)

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

Cal Penn (56:30)

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

Maggie Freeling (56:37)

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

Oliver Hudson (56:47)

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

Elise Myers (56:53)

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her.

Maggie Freeling (57:01)

From Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

Oliver Hudson (57:11)

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

Maggie Freeling (57:20)

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts.

Oliver Hudson (57:45)

Back to your life. Like, how did you, how did you make this your life life? You know, I mean, when did you get on social media? At what point did you realize, wow, you know, I have, I'm amassing followers and I'm actually affecting people. I'm touching people here and I'm assuming that was the, that was the point where you said oh, wow. I can make some sort of a difference here and. And really ignite my platforms.

Elise Myers (58:11)

Yeah. To be honest, it was not an intentional decision until it was. We were way far into it. So I. I was running a. I created, like, a web development company, and I was a coder and a designer, and that was, like, what I was really good at. And I loved it. And I was doing that from home when Covid was happening, and. But I was also going through lots of. Of really dark, like, when I had. When I was in postpartum, like, I had. I was hit with some of the darkest, like, thoughts. Depression. Like, it was just so. It was so long, like a year. It was so bad, and I was still act. You know, no one would have known, which is, like, crazy that you can just hide that. And I. Because I. I just felt like if I said anything, like, someone was gonna, like, take my son. And I was like, I'm okay, but just like, I've never. It was unlike any kind of depression I'd ever experienced.

Oliver Hudson (59:03)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (59:04)

And so I remembered trying to reconnect with myself. And I like you, I've always been a journaler, so I was like, I would be writing these things, and I was like, I have got to remember who I was before I had this baby, because if I don't, I don't think I'm gonna make it, because it felt like my whole life just restarted and I. My brain was wiped. And I was like, we've gotta reconnect. We've gotta build that bridge back to who you were, because that's really important. She's really important, and we can't lose her. And so I started telling stories about my life. Like, really simple little stories. And it was just a. The perfect combination of, like, people being home and on their phones, me knowing. Being a writer, but never like. Then I was like. I was, like, performing the stories. But then I was like, I was an editor, so I was editing, like, animating these stories. And then I'm also like, I don't really have a good awareness of what you should and shouldn't say. So I was saying things that other people were like, oh, she's just, like, saying things other people like, keep quiet. But in my mind, I was like, this isn't revolutionary. I'm just letting people know I had a panic attack yesterday. Like, I don't. That doesn't feel like I'm gonna be like, you're so brave. It's like, oh, should I have not said? That's when I'm like, did I say something I shouldn't have said? You know, when people are like commenting on that. And so the perfect combination of all of that just connected with people and it started growing very quickly, like very rapidly and never did. I think this was going to be like a full time job because that at that time would be so irresponsible to like, I just had a baby. I have a full company I've built from the ground up that's thriving. It's like now I'll just throw it all away, make some videos on the Internet. It was like, that was so silly to me in my mind.

Oliver Hudson (60:44)

Yeah, yeah.

Elise Myers (60:46)

And then once it got to the point where I was having to choose between spending my time working at the. My web dev comp company or making videos and then seeing how much like you could make if you just actually like focused on it, I was like, it now would be irresponsible of me to know that and still choose this. So I made the transition and that's kind of been my life since. But I've, I've always treated it as like, this is still the thing I'm doing to reconnect with myself. I'm still writing, I'm still remembering who I was and who I am. And honestly, people on the Internet have watched me become more of myself than I ever have been. Like, this last year has been so transformative for me, like feeling like I'm learning parts of myself in front of millions of people. And finally like, like what you said of feeling embarrassed. I have a lot of those in, in different fonts and flavors of my life. It's not so much giving all. It's. People have this idea of who I am and in their head as a, as a person, and if I sway from that at all, they're going to be like, why are you trying so hard? Or like, you know, like I've never been very girly until. Because I had three older brothers. So I'm learning how to like feel more feminine. But am I doing this because I feel like I should or because I want to? And so like just doing all of that and it. Just being open about things like that with people, it. They see themselves in it and they just want to join in. And that's kind of.

Oliver Hudson (62:15)

Did it help your own mentality, your own mental state, your own anxieties, depressions and all of this to expose yourself and get out there?

Elise Myers (62:23)

It made it worse.

Oliver Hudson (62:24)

Yeah, it did. It made it worse.

Elise Myers (62:25)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oliver Hudson (62:26)

So you were almost sacrificing yourself a little bit for this endeavor.

Elise Myers (62:30)

I, I did it with the understanding that I would feel that way any, with any career change I was making when I didn't set out to make it. So I had to really pick apart what I was feeling and understand. And that's why I waited so long to transition as well. And because I knew I, like I couldn't once I got to a certain point, I can't really go back like with who I am. It's like I'm always going to run into people that know me and it's going to change the dynamic of my life forever no matter what. Even if it stopped right now.

Oliver Hudson (63:01)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (63:01)

And so I was like, I'm not going to let go until I'm very sure this is what I want. And so I also knew there's going to be a transition period where this is going to feel really scary. And of course millions of people, like I say this a lot but the human brain is like not built to be famous. Human heart, it's not, you're not meant to know this much information about you and opinions and be in front of that many people and be celebrated. When this person doesn't know who you are, it's like that's a very weird thing for the human heart to experience. And so yeah, I had to believe that I'm either going to get used to this and enjoy it or I'm not. And I'm going to let it go because I will not let it take me out. Out.

Oliver Hudson (63:41)

And then you eventually transitioned into that place of acceptance and enjoy it. I mean, yeah, there's got to be some enjoyment to it.

Elise Myers (63:49)

Oh, I love it.

Oliver Hudson (63:50)

Now you're making money, which we all have to do, but you're also doing it in a way that you know you're helping people.

Elise Myers (63:57)

And I get to be creative for money. I'm a professional creative.

Oliver Hudson (64:00)

It's like pretty amazing.

Elise Myers (64:01)

It's the actual dream and I don't niche down. I make whatever I want.

Oliver Hudson (64:05)

Are you, are you inspired? Meaning like are your, is, is your social media like an inspired by or is it a job in the sense that I have to put stuff out, I have to be part of an algorithm.

Elise Myers (64:17)

You know that I have literally never treated it that way. I, I post when I want to.

Oliver Hudson (64:23)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (64:24)

I personally thrive on structure and so I like to have a schedule. I don't plan posts out but like, yeah, I think for me the open endedness of like coming because this is my office so I live in our house and then I have this House that is like a studio in different rooms. And so to walk in and just be like, what am I going to do today? That I would never. That would be so overwhelming to me.

Oliver Hudson (64:49)

I feel that. Yeah.

Elise Myers (64:50)

So I have to have, like, a structure of like, today's the day I film, like, today. And then today's the day I edit. Today's the day I write. This is a music day if I want to do it. And I can shift it around. But having that structure helps.

Oliver Hudson (65:00)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (65:01)

But, yeah, it's. I genuinely. I'm just making content on what I'm currently hyper fixated on. And so right now it's the book because it kind of has to be. But, like, other times I'm super into, like, ear harmony stimming. Like, I want to hear the dissonance and like, resonance between two notes. So I build, like, harmony building and live looping and. And then other times I'm super into a reality TV show. So I make my whole feedback. If I was a bachelor on the contestant on the Bachelor, and I green screen myself really poorly into these, like, things, and I'm just asking people questions and having. I'm just taking things I love and letting people into it. It's really fun.

Oliver Hudson (65:40)

So great. Well, let's get into the book. Now that you brought it up. Talk about the book. Let's do it.

Elise Myers (65:44)

This is my book. I wrote it. It's my face.

Oliver Hudson (65:47)

It's your face. You wrote it all by yourself?

Elise Myers (65:49)

All by myself. Illustrate it. Here's the end pages. I like to show people.

Oliver Hudson (65:52)

That's my.

Elise Myers (65:53)

My desk.

Oliver Hudson (65:54)

Oh, that's great.

Elise Myers (65:55)

And yeah, it's short stories. It's not a memoir. It's like, some are poems, like allegorical poems that are based on true stories. Some are straightforward narrative, but it's like, you know, composites of people. So I don't get sued all that. Like. But like, yeah, it's. It's so. It's. It's one of the coolest creative things I've ever made. I'm so proud of it. It was a. It took so long, but when I read them the stories back, like, it's. It's just so rich. The writing is so fun. It's such a fun read, but it's also like, got so much heart in it because it's like, funny. But then you just kind of like. The content I make on the Internet, it's like, it'll swoop down into, like. But also, everything's gonna be okay. And like.

Oliver Hudson (66:39)

Yeah.

Elise Myers (66:39)

And you're okay. You Know, and I like. I like doing that. I like just. I like adding that into everything I do, because a lot of what I'm making has come from a memory that I have felt processed and then learned from. And so, like, I like to be able to give that to somebody as well. And everything that I make. And so getting to pepper that through my book has been really.

Oliver Hudson (67:01)

Is there. Have you. Did you create a structure for the book before you started, or was it kind of like, okay, page one?

Elise Myers (67:08)

Well, it's. It's. I mean, I wrote this book 20 times over in different ways. And so, yeah, like, I essentially was like, I don't know where to start, because I didn't. It's not chronological. I didn't want it to be like, this is a memoir. So I just, yeah, started writing, and then. And then I would get inspired by what I was writing. Have you ever read the book Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott?

Oliver Hudson (67:29)

No. I'm on such a reading kick right now, it's insane. I can't stop reading.

Elise Myers (67:33)

Oliver, you have.

Oliver Hudson (67:34)

I've read 40 books this year so far. I'm like, good job. Obsessed.

Elise Myers (67:38)

Okay.

Oliver Hudson (67:38)

I'm just reading.

Elise Myers (67:40)

Yeah, Bird by Bird. And.

Oliver Hudson (67:42)

Okay.

Elise Myers (67:43)

So I was reading that at the time, and it really helped me push through a lot of my fear. Essentially, the idea is, like, if you're a writer, then you should write. And doesn't matter if it's good or bad, you should be writing.

Oliver Hudson (67:52)

God, I need to read it, because this is what I'm best at. I won. I won awards as a kid for writing. I wrote. I wrote a short story called Elevators to the Moon in fourth grade that. It was. So I have it. And I was. It was. I'm read it. I read it back. I'm like, this is fucking good. And I won, like, the Amnesty International Award, and I got my first paycheck, and it's framed, and it's what I love to do, but my ADD or whatever it is, I get so bound up in the enormity of it that I. I'm like, oh, fuck this. I can't.

Elise Myers (68:19)

You have to. It. She makes it. So I just. I really as it. The longer I've been talking to you, the more I'm like, I think you would love that book.

Oliver Hudson (68:28)

Okay, I'm gonna get it.

Elise Myers (68:30)

But so. So a lot of the process happened because I was reading that, and then I was trying to put this together, and I had. I think I just said this to someone else. Can't remember, but I was saying, I Flew to New York, and I was in a hotel room for a week to write the book. I was like, I'm not leaving this hotel room until the book is done. And I, like, felt like I was metaphorically, like, banging my head against a wall. Third day, and I hadn't written anything. And I was like, I am such a failure. Like, and now I've wasted money on a hotel room for a week in this really nice place. And I remembered sitting there in the, uh. My, like, flannel was. It was hanging in the closet, and I was like, I wonder if this flannel thinks I'm such an idiot. That, like, it's just watching me waste time. And then I saw myself, like, pacing back and forth from the point of view through the slats of this flannel in the closet. And I was like, I'm just gonna write a story about how this. How upset this flannel is that I took it all the way to New York, and it didn't. It didn't even get used because I didn't write. And then that ended up changing the trajectory of the whole book because I included. That was the idea. I changed it to make it fit what I was doing. But that same idea of, like, a. A story from the perspective of a shirt.

Oliver Hudson (69:38)

It's great.

Elise Myers (69:39)

It's a very fun book.

Oliver Hudson (69:40)

Well, I can't wait. I gotta get it. I gotta read your book. This was so much fun talking to you. I could talk. Thank you so much, much, much longer.

Elise Myers (69:45)

Okay, great. Well, I'll talk later.

Oliver Hudson (69:47)

Talk to you soon.

Elise Myers (69:48)

Bye.

Oliver Hudson (69:49)

Bye. Oh, man. That time went fast, fast, fast. That was. That felt like one of the fastest hours I've had in a long time. Yeah, I keep going. I could keep going with her. It's just fascinating stuff. Thank you, Elise. That was awesome. Really cool. Can't wait to read your book. Everyone should pick up that book, by the way. Everyone should pick up that book. It's called. That's a great question I'd love to tell you. By Elise Myers. And it's available now, so go check it out. All right. Oliver Hudson gone.

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And this is big.

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OK Storytime Podcast Host (72:32)

I live below a cult leader and I fear I've angered her.

Elise Myers (72:35)

Wait a minute, Sophia, how do you know she's a cult leader?

OK Storytime Podcast Host (72:37)

Well Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story. We on the OK Storytime podcast so we'll find out soon. This person writes, My neighbor has been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals and now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder. I think they might be part of a cult.

Elise Myers (72:55)

Hold up a real life cult and.

Better Picks Ad Voice (72:58)

What is a dirt ritual?

OK Storytime Podcast Host (72:59)

No clue, Dakota. Find out how it ends. Listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you you get your podcasts.

Maggie Freeling (73:07)

The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day.

Oliver Hudson (73:12)

My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day.

Maggie Freeling (73:16)

Stories that move markets.

Narrator/Host (73:17)

Chair Powell opened the door to this.

Maggie Freeling (73:20)

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Narrator/Host (73:39)

This is an iHeart podcast.