Revelry and Real Talk with Goldie Hawn & Mel Robbins: Part 1

Summary

Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson

Episode: Revelry and Real Talk with Goldie Hawn & Mel Robbins: Part 1

Release Date: November 3, 2025
Guests: Goldie Hawn, Mel Robbins
Host(s): Oliver Hudson (Kate Hudson present but less active in content sections)

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Episode Overview

In this lively and candid episode, Oliver Hudson sits down with his mother Goldie Hawn and renowned motivational speaker & author Mel Robbins for a deep dive into generational parenting styles, the complexities of anxiety, and the evolving understanding of resilience and self-improvement. Through personal anecdotes and actionable insights, the trio explores how family dynamics, empathy, and modern psychology intersect—not only shedding light on their own familial quirks but also offering advice that listeners can take into their own lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Empathy, Boundaries, and Parental Control

(Starts at ~04:52)

• Goldie Hawn raises the subject of empathy and the impulse to "fix" loved ones, referencing Mel Robbins’ work on mindset shifts.
  • Goldie asks Mel, “Were you an empathetic child?”
  • Mel Robbins: “I think so. Highly so. I think I absorbed everybody’s feelings. I feel like sometimes being deeply empathetic is both a gift and a curse, because you can feel everything...” (05:58)
• The group reflects on how being “deeply empathetic” can lead to over-responsibility for others’ emotions and challenges, often manifesting as over-parenting or control.
  • Goldie: "There are things you can't fix... it's important in your life to have that mindset." (06:39)

2. Helicopter Parents vs. Resilient Kids

(~08:16)

• Goldie shares a story about hiring a chef to bring Oliver food in college—much to his surprise and embarrassment.
  • Oliver: “There was a knock at my door, and... this woman says, ‘Your mom has hired me to bring you food.’” (09:02)
• The hosts discuss how modern parenting often leans toward "over-helping" compared to their childhood, which allowed for more freedom and, as Mel notes, greater resilience.
  • Mel Robbins: “I think a lot of that over parenting comes from this fundamental need to be in control... The sad part is your kid is probably more resilient and smarter and more capable than you are treating them.” (11:56)
• Mel shares a personal parenting mistake about accommodating her daughter’s anxiety after a traumatic experience, realizing that over-nurturing can entrench fears rather than resolve them.
  • “By allowing her to opt out, I actually made the fear way worse. Like, it became an issue for years and years…” (15:16)

3. Changing Our Approach to Anxiety

(~21:42)

• Oliver opens up about his lifelong struggle with anxiety, the physical symptoms tied to it, and his pathway to management.
  • “It’s something I’ve dealt with… I’ve made a relationship with my anxiety so it doesn’t take me over anymore. I understand it. Whereas before I thought I was dying.” (22:00)
• Mel and Goldie discuss how anxiety often manifests physically—especially in the stomach—triggering cycles of avoidance and escalation.
  • Mel Robbins: “The fear of throwing up is the number one fear that kids have because it’s this moment of a complete loss of control.” (24:26)
• Mel provides a neuroscience-informed reframe: the physical sensations we interpret as danger are often the body’s way of preparing us for action, not signals of impending doom.
  • “Those butterflies are not a sign that anything’s about to go wrong. It’s a sign that your chemistry is changing to help you be able to focus or run or do the thing you need to do.” (27:13)

4. Practical Cognitive Tools for Anxious Moments

(~29:10)

• Mel shares an actionable strategy:
  • When nerves hit, start saying, “I’m so excited to do this…” to your brain. Research shows this shifts the physiological response from threat to anticipation, improving executive functioning.*
• Goldie expands: the act of smiling—even if you don’t feel it—tricks your brain into a more positive state. Language and body cues matter.
  • “If you smile and you don’t feel like it, your brain thinks you’re happier. It’s just an act, a physical act, a choice that I choose to smile… Interesting how it helps the brain.” (29:44)
• Another practical tip via Olympic coach Steve Magnus:
  • Get control over nausea-induced anxiety by scheduling it: “Name the time you’re going to throw up.” This gives back a sense of agency, breaking the cycle.
    • “And it removed the urge to throw up. By naming the time, she all of a sudden felt in control of when it would happen and then suddenly didn’t need to do it.” (32:53)
• Goldie connects this to parenting hacks like “hiccup on command,” showing that shifting mental focus can break physical habits.

5. Healing from Trauma & Changing Self-Perceptions

(~38:09)

• The group acknowledges that unlearning ingrained behaviors and thought patterns takes active effort (“grit”), but it’s possible—healing doesn’t need to take as long as the hurt.
  • Mel Robbins: “It’s not that we don’t know what we could be doing, it’s that we wait until we feel like doing it… When you want your life to get better, it begins with you deciding that how your life feels, how it’s going right now, just no longer works for you.” (39:09)
• Goldie highlights the need to teach people to see themselves as adaptable, not as stuck.
  • “No, it’s not. It’s the way you think you are. But it’s not the way you are.” (48:52)
• Mel further distinguishes between the persistence of traumatic memories and the possibility for new processing—citing modalities like EMDR and even supported psychedelics.
  • “Just because you endured something for a very long period of time doesn’t mean it has to take you that long to heal it.” (47:50)

6. The Let Them Theory: Letting Go for More Peace

(~44:23)

• Mel explains her “Let Them Theory” as a shortcut to more peace and less stress:
  • “It is the fastest way to feel less stressed, to be more in control, to have more peace in your life, is to stop trying to control what other people think, say, do, believe—and let them be. And then, take your power back and focus on yourself.” (44:23)
• This reflects ancient wisdom (Viktor Frankl, the Serenity Prayer) while also being a concrete tool for daily life.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Goldie Hawn: “You want to make everything nice for your children, but you can’t do everything for them. You don’t want to. You shouldn’t.” (~09:38)
• Oliver Hudson: “When we were kids…it was like, take whatever rolls on a wheel and get the fuck out of here… There was just more freedom then… We could make more mistakes.” (~09:52)
• Mel Robbins: “I thought that love meant control and change… And the fact is it has the exact opposite effect.” (12:01)
• Oliver Hudson: “I couldn’t leave the house without throwing up… I was trying to be an actor… There was a lot of sort of unconscious pressure I was putting on myself.” (23:02–23:21)
• Mel Robbins: “You can make a decision to say to yourself, ‘This just no longer works for my life to work to feel like this.’ And that decision is what begins the change.” (40:09)
• Goldie Hawn: “You’re not sick. You’re just thinking in the wrong way. Let’s think differently.” (41:31)
• Mel Robbins: “If you didn’t talk yourself into the trauma, you can’t talk yourself out of it… But you can process it differently so you’re not defined by it.” (44:54, condensed from 44:52–47:50)
• Goldie Hawn: “No, it’s not [who you are]. It’s the way you think you are. But it’s not the way you are. And there’s definitely fluidity of understanding that you don’t have to stay with who you perceive yourself to be.” (48:52)

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Notable Timestamps

• 05:58 Mel Robbins on the double-edged sword of empathy
• 09:02 Oliver’s story: surprise chef at college door
• 15:16 Mel describes a crucial parenting mistake with her daughter’s anxiety
• 21:42 Oliver on his lifelong anxiety and its physical symptoms
• 24:26 Mel: Fear of throwing up is kids’ #1 fear after parental loss
• 27:13 Mel explains the ‘butterflies’ as evolutionary readiness, not a warning
• 29:10 Mel's brain hack: saying "I'm excited" to reframe nerves
• 32:53 The “name your throw-up time” tool for performance anxiety
• 39:09 Mel on the importance of decision as the first step to change
• 44:23 Mel breaks down the “Let Them Theory”
• 47:50 Mel: Healing trauma doesn’t have to take as long as the pain

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Tone and Style

The episode is warm, humorous, and self-deprecating. Oliver and Goldie share personal foibles with affection, and Mel Robbins offers clarity and actionable advice with enthusiasm and compassion. The chemistry between Goldie and Mel is a highlight, with Oliver playfully noting being "excluded" by their instant connection.

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Summary Takeaways

• Helicopter parenting is born out of parental anxiety, not necessarily kids’ needs.
• Children’s resilience is often underestimated; over-involvement can reinforce helplessness.
• Anxiety manifests in the body; understanding its evolutionary purpose can help decatastrophize it.
• Simple, intentional self-talk (reframing nerves as excitement) and taking back agency (naming anxious moments) are powerful, research-backed tools.
• Healing from trauma and ingrained patterns is possible and may take less time than you fear—especially if you’re open to changing the internal narrative.
• Letting go of controlling others—'Let Them'—is both liberating and empowering.

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Looking Ahead

The chemistry and insight-packed conversation “could have gone on for hours,” as Oliver notes—they even announce a forthcoming Part 2 to dig deeper into these topics with Mel Robbins.

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End of Content Summary (Part 1)

Transcript

[Oliver Hudson]

This is an iHeart podcast. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping. When you want to make the most of your money, head to the PayPal app before you check out. They give you the flexibility to pay in four no fees, no interest. And this is big. You can get 5% cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether you're shopping for a gift for the kids, your spouse, or one for yourself, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Save the offer in the PayPal app expires 1231. See paypal.com promoter subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com Pain for PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457 you know that feeling.

[Kate Hudson]

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[Oliver Hudson]

Great season to travel with my family so we've been talking about a trip to Switzerland because I've actually have never been to Switzerland. Hiking in the Alps, taking those scenic trains, tasting all the chocolate. So when we travel I love staying in an Airbnb. If you're heading out this fall, consider hosting your home on Airbnb with a co host network. You can have someone local take care of everything while you're gone. Find a co [e-mail] host. Do you like free money? Well, today's your lucky day. Better Picks is offering a free $10 just for signing up. Download the Better. Pick more or less on player stats, watch the games and win some cash. It's that simple. Better Picks is available in 33 states, including Texas, California and Georgia. Download the Better app today. That's better.

[Mel Robbins]

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[Oliver Hudson]

No deposit necessary. Must be 21 or older. In a jurisdiction where Better Picks operates, terms and conditions apply. Better Picks. Sports just got better. Hey, audiobook lovers, I'm Kalpen. I'm Ed Helms. Ed and I are inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with our new PODC, Earsay, the Audible, and iHeart Audiobook Club. Each week we sit down with your favorite iHeart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest and greatest audiobooks from Audible. Listen to Hearsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow earsay and start listening on the free iHeartradio app today. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

[Kate Hudson]

We wanted to do something that hot.

[Oliver Hudson]

Highlighted our relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are. A sibling rivalry. No, no sibling rivalry.

[Kate Hudson]

Don't do that with your mouth.

[Oliver Hudson]

Sibling revelry.

[Mel Robbins]

That's good.

[Goldie Hawn]

Oh, well, I'll never get in that water again.

[Oliver Hudson]

This is Oliver Hudson here and I'm actually live with an incredible guest, Mel Robbins and my mother. I'm speaking quietly now. I've read her book, the Let them Theory, and it's incredible. But I am speaking quietly because my mom and Mel, they have really hit it off. They're currently right to my left.

[Goldie Hawn]

Feels like they know.

[Oliver Hudson]

But before we even got the mic set up, they are up, up and away. They're excluding me right now, which is fine. I will work my way in. Right now I'm just commentating on their conversation. These two beautiful blondes are just going at it. Let's join their conversation now. Already in progress.

[Goldie Hawn]

Yeah, but you know what you have done, which is so interesting and I've got so many, we've got so many questions. But you're also looking at human behavior.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Goldie Hawn]

You're also looking at where we can go to actually heal. How are we going to be able to understand like you did, you know, the five second rule or whatever, which was amazing. And get people off, you know, off. Because they're, they're thinking of all kinds of reasons why not to do something. Yes, get them going. But you really have met sort of the culture. People aren't needing this. They want. Want this so much. And I have this question because some of us are driven. Some of us are driven to help. Some of us are driven to make change. Some of us have a lot of empathy to be able to take your time and your interests to help and change and shift other people's mindset and thinking. What made you as a human being, going through all the things you went through? Were you an empathetic child?

[Mel Robbins]

Ooh, that's an interesting. I think so. Highly so. I think I absorbed everybody's feelings. I absorbed everything that was going on around me. I feel like sometimes being deeply empathetic is both a gift and a curse, because you can feel everything. And the problem is assuming responsibility for either creating equilibrium if what you're feeling is chaos or anger or hurt or sadness or hostility, and assuming that it's your job when you feel something, to do something to fix it.

[Goldie Hawn]

Exactly. And there's things you talked about also in your book, which I've been reading, I'm loving, it was an idea that you can't fix things, and there are things you can't fix.

[Mel Robbins]

True.

[Goldie Hawn]

And with that is an important place in your life to have that mindset to say, I can't fix you. And I did laugh because there was something in there with Oliver. I know I've told this story before when Oliver was my child. Right. And, you know, your kids never end up. There's always your kids. Right. No matter how old they are, they're always your children. So anyway, so he went to.

[Mel Robbins]

There we go.

[Oliver Hudson]

It always devolves into something here.

[Goldie Hawn]

You're the worst. Like, you're the best.

[Mel Robbins]

What are you talking about?

[Oliver Hudson]

This isn't about my circumcision, is it?

[Goldie Hawn]

No.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay, what can we have? Let's talk about that story.

[Oliver Hudson]

She told. That. She told this story on a talk show.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay. What is the story? I don't know. See, not everybody in the world knows.

[Goldie Hawn]

Circumcision story.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, we'll tell the circumcision story, and then we'll get into more. A little deeper stuff.

[Goldie Hawn]

Well, the circumcision story was. He was a month old, okay? And I was really, really upset. I wanted to be in there because I felt I could make him feel good. And. But I was waiting, and then the doctor. I was so upset, and the doctor came out and said, you'll be happy to know I need a bigger clamp.

[Oliver Hudson]

I said, oh, my God. Now, I told this On a talk show. And then, of course.

[Mel Robbins]

Did you thank her?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, kind of. You know, it's like, bigger clamp. I'm like, what?

[Mel Robbins]

I know. That's better than her saying, we can't find something small, right?

[Oliver Hudson]

Exactly.

[Goldie Hawn]

But.

[Oliver Hudson]

But.

[Goldie Hawn]

But the story about being served servile. Okay. Someone who wants to take care of your children, make sure they don't fall. Like today. You know, they're putting, you know, all kinds of, like, rubber mats or things under playgrounds. They shouldn't hurt themselves. They can. We're always helping them not have to go through a problem or fixing it for them. And this is. You wrote about this so beautifully, and even I might say I related to it. And it brought me up to a point where Oliver went to college, and I was worried about him, you know, eating, and he was in this, you know, apartment or whatever they had, and I. I was concerned. So I got a chef.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah. Well. So, well.

[Goldie Hawn]

Well, I can't say she was a chef.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, I was a chef, but. But she didn't even tell me what was happening. There was a knock on my door and.

[Mel Robbins]

College.

[Oliver Hudson]

In college. It's my sophomore year. I am living in a house.

[Goldie Hawn]

It was your freshman year.

[Oliver Hudson]

It was my sophomore year. It was a decade. Disgusting house with six dudes and the. There's a knock at the door, and I open it up, and there's this woman with a casserole. I'm like, yes. And she's like, your mom has hired me to bring you food. And I'm like, oh, my Lord. Okay.

[Mel Robbins]

Were you surprised?

[Oliver Hudson]

No. I mean, yes and no. It was a bit of a shock, but. But, you know, she was afraid I wasn't eating, you know.

[Goldie Hawn]

Well, I was afraid you wouldn't eat enough. It was whatever. And it was very. It's very funny. So you want to make everything nice for your children, but you can't do everything for them. Right?

[Mel Robbins]

You don't want to.

[Goldie Hawn]

You shouldn't.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Goldie Hawn]

You know, that's the problem.

[Oliver Hudson]

But do you think that's changed, though? Because, well, when we were kids, you know, it was like, take whatever rolls on a wheel and get the fuck out of here. Go, you know, go. Go to your friend's house. There's no phones, there's no connection. There's no GPS locating. There's no find, you know, find my friends or life360, you know, and there was just more. There was more freedom then, you know, a lot more. We could make more mistakes.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Oliver Hudson]

Just by. Just. By just even tech. Not technologically yes. So have you seen that shift? Were you, were you brought up the way that you brought your kids up?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, I think I was a little bit looser than you see a lot of parents now. I always had this point of view that my job was not to turn them into me, but to try to help them, try to guide my kids as best as I could in them becoming who they were supposed to be. I think a lot of that over parenting comes from this fundamental need to be in control. And there's a lot of research, it's not research that I've done, but there's a lot of research around how the milk carton missing children created a false concern in parents minds that your child could be snatched from the front yard at any moment. And there's lots of great researchers that have sort of connected the dots going backwards to that moment where all of a sudden parents started to feel like childhood wasn't safe. And then it starts to compound and compound and compound. And when you look at parents that are over parenting and you know, on one hand sending a casserole is a wonderful thing to do and it's a way to kind of be there when you can't be there. And then there's the stepping in and solving problems, there's the bulldozing other people so your kids don't have to ever experience disappointment.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, there's the helicopter parent, then there's the bulldozer parent. Right.

[Mel Robbins]

And what's very clear is that's coming from a parent's own anxiety and a parent's feeling that the world is out of control. Therefore, I have to control the experience of my child. And here's the sad part. The sad part is your kid is probably more resilient and smarter and more capable than you are treating them. And I made this huge mistake. So I made this huge mistake. And that's how I learn almost everything. Every book you'll see, I'm the villain. And the let them theory is no different. The reason why I know that this theory works is because I used to be a complete control freak that was doing things the exact opposite in terms of the way that human beings work and the way that relationships work. I thought that love meant control and change. I thought that I knew best. I thought judging people and trying to motivate them was the way that you get them to change. And the fact is it has the exact opposite effect. And so I made this huge mistake when I was a parent. We went to Cambodia when our kids were really little and we were There visiting my husband's mom, who was a recent widow, and she had gone over to Cambodia to do some volunteer work and had really found her calling. So we go over to visit her and there's this thing that happens where we go visit a museum that was all about the Khmer Rouge. And I don't know what I was thinking taking a bunch of elementary age kids to an old elementary school where the Khmer Rouge had held prisoners. And they've turned it into this really important museum. We walk into the first classroom and our daughter Kendall, who was maybe, I don't know, fourth or fifth grade, takes one look at this room where they have a bed and they have handcuffs to it and there's like a stain, you know, that they had just killed people in this room. She goes running out. I go running out after her. She was hysterical. Something's gonna happen to you and dad. Something's gonna happen to you and dad. We get home from the trip and she could not sleep through the night.

[Goldie Hawn]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Wow.

[Mel Robbins]

And so she came downstairs every night, and for the first couple nights, I would walk her back upstairs and then she would come back down. And everybody who's ever been a parent has had that experience where you' just so exhausted that they wear you down. Next thing you know, I'm lifting up the blanket, she's crawling in. And finally it just got to the point, you guys, where she would sleep on her floor. She did this for almost six months. I made a bed on the floor. I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought that I was really just nurturing her and helping her. And what I realize now is that I royally compounded the anxiety because I was allowing her anxiety to win. I was basically by allowing her to avoid being up in her room, what it confirmed to her is that she's not capable of being up there, that this fear is real. And then it turned into, you can't do a sleepover. You gotta have a sleep under where you pick the kid up. And then it turns into, you can't travel. And so it got bigger and bigger and bigger and. And I was just trying to help. And what I can see now is that by not following the advice of all the pediatricians who were like, you need to take her upstairs, you need to sit with her, you need to let her go back to sleep, you need to model for her that she is capable of facing this fear. By allowing her to opt out, I actually made the fear way worse. Like, it became an issue for years and years and years that we're only now kind of fully unwinding and understanding.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's so funny because you're also also dealing with a different sect of parenting as well, which is attachment parenting, where these kids will sleep in the room from the very beginning and feeding on demand. And it's like they're you cater to your child. You. It's that attachment parenting thing, you know.

[Mel Robbins]

I don't know anything about that. Here's what I know. If it works for you, do it. But what I found is that I took the easy route and it made things way harder in the end. Yeah, way harder.

[Oliver Hudson]

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[Kate Hudson]

You know that feeling when you're on an island vacation, sun on your face, cocktail in hand, no deadlines or demands. That's Tommy Bahama. In their world, the living's always easy, the drinks are always good, and summer lasts forever. Seriously, Tommy Bahama knows how to take you to your happy place. From their signature prints to their flattering fits, it's like if style and vacation had a baby. Effortless. It's sophisticated, it's art, it's giving. I'm on a beach somewhere and no, I cannot come to the phone right now. And it's not just for me. Their menswear is designed with the same next level comfort and feel good fabric so everyone could get in on the getaway. And Tommy Bahama restaurants and bars don't even get me started. I actually go to the them because I love the desert and there is a Tommy Bahama restaurant in the desert and my son and I go there all the time. We drink Mai tais, we have good vibes, and it's the world's best coconut shrimp served daily, full on relaxation mode. So if you are into craftsmanship, quality and making every day feel like a vacay, Tommy Bahama is where it's at. Check them out tommybahama.com and find a restaurant, bar or store near you. That's Tommy Bahama dot com.

[Oliver Hudson]

So I, I, I take Lexapro. Anxiety has been a part of my life. Mom had anxiety in her 20s. There has to be some sort of genetic component to that for sure. So I, it's something I've dealt with, deal with even the last like 10 days.

[Mel Robbins]

When's the last time you had anxiety?

[Oliver Hudson]

Oh, I mean, six hours ago.

[Mel Robbins]

What happened?

[Oliver Hudson]

But it's different. I just, I'm so, I know how to deal with it. I know what it is. I've made a relationship with my anxiety so it doesn't take me over anymore. I understand it. Whereas before I thought I was dying, you know what I mean? And I was able to sort of meditate through it, journal through it, and then eventually had to get on medication for it. And now every once in a while it'll pop up. It's these sort of irrational thoughts. But I understand that I'm not going to die. I'm okay.

[Mel Robbins]

Is it really? What? That's the way it manifests itself. Like you literally will start, you'll like have a stomach pain and then escalate.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's in my stomach. It manifests in my stomach for the most part.

[Mel Robbins]

Really?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, I'm interested in this because my son as a stomach triggered Anxiety spiral.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah.

[Goldie Hawn]

I mean, it's really.

[Oliver Hudson]

I. So my 20s, 30s, and 40s is when I've had my, like, big bouts of it. In my 20s, it was all stomach. I mean, I couldn't leave the house without throwing up.

[Mel Robbins]

Wow.

[Oliver Hudson]

It was awful.

[Mel Robbins]

Fear of it?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yes. See, mine, it was a fear of looking stupid. I don't want. I didn't want to look stupid in front of people. And throwing up, like, that would make me look like an asshole and people would judge me and, you know, so the minute I would get out of the house, I'd feel nauseous. I'd want to throw up.

[Mel Robbins]

Wow.

[Oliver Hudson]

I was trying to be an actor. My sister was. Was. Was, you know, famous. My parents were famous. I'm just starting. There was a lot of sort of unconscious pressure that I was sort of putting on myself, expectations, and I was going to auditions. Throwing up outside of the audition space. Remember when I was in New York?

[Goldie Hawn]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

I had to fly to New York because I had to read with Laura Linney for this movie. And I said to my. My manager, I'm like, I can't get on a airplane. I mean, I'm like, I can barely get. Step out of my home. But I fought through it. I get on the airplane, and now I'm. I'm driving down, like, Fifth Avenue. The cab has to pull over multiple times because I'm throwing up. I'm throwing up before the audition. I call mom in the waiting room. I'm like, I can't do, like, holy. Like, I'm just a complete wreck. But I fought through it. I was always trying to. I didn't want it to. For it to debilitate me.

[Mel Robbins]

It sounded pretty debilitating.

[Oliver Hudson]

Oh, it was awful.

[Goldie Hawn]

I had that too. So that was. Happened to me, and it was all stomach. It was my panic attacks, and I couldn't go into public without throwing up.

[Mel Robbins]

Really. So can I ask you guys a question about this? Cause I find this fascinating because a number of pediatricians that I've spoken to have said that other than the fear of your parents dying, the fear of throwing up is the number one fear that kids have because it's this moment of a complete loss of control.

[Goldie Hawn]

That's interesting.

[Mel Robbins]

So do you remember the first time you connected, like, stomach tension with this fear that you're gonna throw up. So I better, like, I gotta make it happen now so that I'm in control of it.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

When was the first time that happened?

[Oliver Hudson]

The first time? I'm honestly not sure. I mean, the first time That I had my. It was a panic attack. My heart felt like it exploded.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[Oliver Hudson]

And I was going to like a club. I was at a. Going into a club in my mid-20s and I was like, boom. I thought I was gonna die on the sidewalk. I mean, it was just horrible. And then after that, it started to sort of manifest in my stomach. But yes, it's interesting that you say you almost want to expel it. You want to throw up in your space first and then move to the public area because you just don't want to look stupid.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, there's two things I want to share with you guys that I. That have been life changing for me. And one of them is something that I researched and studied that fundamentally changed the way that I experience any nerves or anxiety. And it stopped the escalation. And then the second thing I want to share with you is something from. I think his name is Steve Magnus, who's been an Olympic track coach and is like a big mindset guy. That's a trick that he used with athletes that had this particular issue that stops it. And so the first thing I wanna explain that has been very life changing for me is that I never realized that when you're about to go do something that you're nervous about, it could be an audition, it could be a date, it could be just going out in public because you are about to go do something that you kind of care about and you have a little bit of a. How is this gonna go? You immediately switch into a preparation mode that's sort of like fight or flight. And when you go into. So like before an audition, before a speech, before a date, before an interview, we all get nervous. And when you're getting nervous, there are physiological and medical symptoms that happen. Your heart starts to race, your throat starts to get a little tight, your hands can get. Your armpits can be like the connection.

[Goldie Hawn]

Between the brain, the amygdala and particular.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Goldie Hawn]

That really has a complete connection to the body.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And your stomach. People start to say you have butterflies. Here's why. Here's why. From an evolutionary standpoint, if you are about to prepare to do something, whether it's hunt or it's run from something or fight, your body goes into a let's get ready mode. The chemistry in your body changes. All the blood goes to your heart and your brain so you can think and so you can move faster, which means it leaves your digestive tract, which means the chemistry in your stomach is changing. Those butterflies are not actually a sign that you're about to screw up. They're not a sign that you're about to throw up. They're not a sign that anything's about to go wrong. It's a sign that your chemistry in your body is changing to help you be able to focus or run or do the thing you need to do. And for years, I mistook, like everybody does, those butterflies as a sign of impending doom versus just your body getting ready for you to get out the door and go do the audition. If you then go up in your head and are like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, you now escalate the alarm state in your body and you make it worse. They've actually studied this at Harvard.

[Goldie Hawn]

What happens to your executive function out the window?

[Mel Robbins]

Because the second that, and you know this with all your work, the second that you switch gears from the prefrontal cortex being engaged to now the amygdala's triggered, executive functioning's out the window, your critical voice gets louder. Your ability to recall the preparation that you had and to be able to talk yourself down out the window. And so they studied this at Harvard Business School. There's this really interesting study where they taught people in high performance situations, whether you're going to go into a track meet or a debate competition or something that we can measure, they taught them in states where you're about to do something and you're nervous and your stomach is like twirling around with butterflies to say, I'm so excited to do this thing. I'm so excited. I'm excited to run this thing. I'm excited to do the debate. I'm excited to go on the interview. I'm excited to get on the plane. Even though you may not feel that simply cueing your brain to say, I'm excited calms the stress response, right?

[Oliver Hudson]

I mean, how different, though, is excitement from nerves?

[Mel Robbins]

It's the exact same thing, right?

[Oliver Hudson]

Because people, because there are certain people where the nerves become debilitating, and then there are others where it can be empowering. You know, where you use that, that's fuel to just be better.

[Goldie Hawn]

You're saying too, in terms of that is the brain is basically a muscle. So once you start feeding it all of this thing, for instance, if you, if you smile and you don't feel like it, your brain thinks you're happier. It goes right into your brain, your activity, your connections, all of it. It's just an act, a physical act, a choice that I choose to smile. Interesting how it helps the brain to be able to actually Feel happier. It's a signal. So the same thing is when you repeat over and over again. I'm really excited to do this. I have something to share with that, on that because being self aware as we are, we try to be, I noticed that there's, you know, going through some stress, things, stuff. We deal all, every day. It's always stuff. It's a leak here, you know, there's something here, there's a bill there, there's a, I don't know there. And then with my foundation, it's always something. And I ended up looking at this because I, you know, you talk to yourself, you go, I don't know. I made myself aware of that. Said, what do you mean you don't know? You do know. And every time I would say, I would say it to myself, I don't, I don't know. Or even out loud, I would laugh and I would say, no, I do know. I do know.

[Oliver Hudson]

Why am I doing this?

[Goldie Hawn]

And I've stopped saying it because I do know. So you're already signaling your negative thought, which is, I don't know what's going to happen. I'm feeling anxious about it. I mean, what am I going to do? How am I going to solve this problem? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

[Mel Robbins]

Well, even if you look at your face as you're talking like that, like, if you think about the experience of waking up in the morning, if your first thought is, how am I gonna get through the day? Your face changes, your energy changes. If your first thought is, I'm gonna make today a good day, even though there's a lot, I gotta make today a good day, like, that's just a simple example.

[Goldie Hawn]

And it's also an intention, isn't it?

[Mel Robbins]

Correct.

[Goldie Hawn]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. So the second piece of advice, though, on this, because I have a hunch that what started to happen for you is similar to what I think happened with our son, where the link between the physical sensation of this to the brain thought, I'm in big trouble now. And the only way to solve it is to get rid of this by throwing up. I think that got so well worn that it became automatic. And that brings me to this advice from coach Steve Magnus, which is he had a high performing athlete that he was coaching who would always get sick before a race. And it was really, really bothering her. Very distracting. She could not hit the mark in terms of her ability to get better and to make nationals. And so he came up with a strategy where he'd be like, all right, we got an hour before the race. What time are you gonna throw up? And she'd be like, what do you mean? No, no. Name the time you're gonna throw up. And it removed the urge to throw up. Interesting, because by naming the time, she all of a sudden felt in control of when it would happen and then suddenly didn't need to do it.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, I could get the actor.

[Goldie Hawn]

That's what it reminds me of, though. You know, when the kids had hiccups and stuff, we used to say, okay, now hiccup again.

[Oliver Hudson]

Hiccup. Go, go.

[Goldie Hawn]

Come on, let's go.

[Oliver Hudson]

Let's hiccup.

[Goldie Hawn]

Okay, go ahead, hiccup. Hiccup, honey, come on, hiccup. And you know what? They couldn't hiccup because it tricks the brain, made them hiccup.

[Mel Robbins]

I'm going to try that. I've only ever used a scoop of peanut butter. I like that trick.

[Oliver Hudson]

But I think I could get the actor wrong. But I think it was Peter Fonda who threw up before every play performance. For every performance, there are actors who will throw up.

[Goldie Hawn]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

And there's actors, by the way, who use beta blockers. Right.

[Mel Robbins]

Wow.

[Oliver Hudson]

Which is going to block all of that. You don't have to feel it anymore because it's a drug that has literally stopped from the mouth getting dry, from the stomach going from all of it.

[Mel Robbins]

But if you simply understand the chemistry of it, you now have the ability to find the switches and the drivers in your brain, your body, to start to understand and not be afraid of it.

[Oliver Hudson]

This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping. When you want to make the most of your money, head to the PayPal app before you check out. They give you the flexibility to pay in four no fees, no interest. And this is big. You can get 5% cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether you're shopping for a gift for the kids, your spouse, or one one for yourself, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Save the offer in the PayPal app expires 1231. See paypal.com promoterms subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com Paying for PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457 October is one of my favorite times to travel with my family. You know, it's not too hot, it's not too cold, and the crowds are lighter. So this year we've been talking about heading to Switzerland because I know the kids would love hiking in the Alps, riding those mountain trains and of course trying every kind of chocolate they can find. When we do trips like this, I love need to stay in an Airbnb. You get that local vibe. It feels like you actually live there for a little while, which makes the memories that much richer. So if you're traveling this fall, it's also a perfect time to think about hosting your own home on Airbnb. And the best part? You don't have to do it all by yourself. With Airbnb's co host network, you can hire a local co host to manage everything from your listing, guest communications, and even making sure the place looks amazing. Find a co [e-mail] host.

[Kate Hudson]

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[Oliver Hudson]

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[Mel Robbins]

Even.

[Oliver Hudson]

With what you write, the let me stuff and, and even what we're talking about right now, there's so much deeper psychology that has been imprinted and ingrained in us through traumas and all that. So it's so much easier said than done because I've been through, I've been through therapy for 25 years. I went through the Hoffman process like I am. Like always understand myself. Yeah, no, but I am. But I'm not. I mean, I'm all, I love it, you know, and now through reading, even just fiction, you know, I, I learned so much about myself through different characters. I'm always trying to be better, you know.

[Goldie Hawn]

You're curious, right?

[Oliver Hudson]

I'm curious. And sometimes it's like there's those moments where you can just let it, let it all go and you feel at peace. But there's also a lot of muck and tar to have to wade through to be able to sort of put a lot of these practices into true practice and have and reap benefits from it. Because there's a lot to wade through that is true.

[Mel Robbins]

And here's a simple truth. If I were to ask you, can you list five ways you could make your life worse?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yes.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah. And my list would be pretty dark. Like I can go, like, really, let's just destroy everything. If that's true, then you can also list five things that would make your life better. And while it is true that trauma does get ingrained as patterns and things that your body remembers and repeats, it's also true that it can be healed. And what I have found personally is that the thing that stands in our way oftentimes is that it's not that we don't know what we could be doing, it's that we wait until we feel like doing it. And the fact is, when you want your life to get better, it begins with you deciding that how your life feels, how it's going right now, just no longer works for you. Maybe it did work for you a decade ago to throw up before everything. You can make a decision to say to yourself, this just no longer works for my life to work to feel like this. And that decision is what begins the change.

[Oliver Hudson]

Right. It begins the journey to change.

[Mel Robbins]

Correct. Correct. But once you can identify that, I just don't want my life to feel like this. There's thousands of things you can do.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And it's going to be. And so I don't believe that you have to stay stuck and wading through the muck for the rest of your life. I do not believe that.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

I don't believe that if something took 10 years in terms of how long you were experiencing something that you need 10 years to actually heal yourself.

[Oliver Hudson]

But you do have to put the work in.

[Goldie Hawn]

Of course you do.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yes.

[Goldie Hawn]

So that's where grit comes in and how much grit people do have to be able to face. Like you say, our failures are where we learn.

[Mel Robbins]

Well. Yeah.

[Goldie Hawn]

And to know and adopt a philosophy that this is real, this is not. We know this. We know because we understand how. Sorry to go back into my world, but feed the brain. So when we go into understanding that we are in control of our own brain, our brain does not control us. We have to have the intention and the grit and the awareness that it's okay to fail, but ultimately it's the only way we learn.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Goldie Hawn]

And this is what you have done is opened up a lot of windows in people's brains. A lot of areas where they don't talk about a lot of things, where they have no roadmap to be able to say, I'm going to follow this stepping stone, you know, the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I'm going to do it this way. There's tools. So you're really giving tools to people who don't have them or that would like to get better. And you're inspiring them to know that there is a possibility of cure. You're not sick. You're just thinking in the wrong way. Let's think differently. Let's put ourselves in a position of, of positive negatives, like you said, we can think of a million negatives. But when you look at optimism and pessimism, Right. And you sort of look at these two things so you can look something simple like a rainy day. What's bad about it, what's negative, what's pessimistic?

[Mel Robbins]

It's whatever you're saying is. Exactly. Yes.

[Goldie Hawn]

So, you know, we have the capacity, if we can look at a rainy day and think of what's good and what's not good about it, we could do the same thing with us.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, let me, Let me ask both of you. Let me ask both of you a question.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Oliver Hudson]

And I don't know if this is true, but do you think primally our default is fear? Because this is how we survived. You know, when we default to a feeling, is it optimistic or is it more fear based?

[Goldie Hawn]

The brain is negative bias.

[Oliver Hudson]

It feels like it's negative bias.

[Mel Robbins]

Right.

[Goldie Hawn]

It feels like it's there and it's there. It's primal, it's reptilian, but it's definitely there to protect us. So there's all these amazing feelings that we think you're helping so many, so many, so many people. How to enjoy the possibilities of a happier life, a calmer life, and some ways to make people actually deal better. Like you said, let them, you know, and let me.

[Mel Robbins]

And let me. That's the hard part for everybody.

[Oliver Hudson]

In your book. I read the story, the prom story.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[Oliver Hudson]

Which is just intensely relatable.

[Goldie Hawn]

It's so great.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, myself, my wife and I. I feel like I live. Let me. Like, I feel like that's kind of who I am. Because on my headstone will be. We'll figure it out. I'm just like, eh, we'll figure it out. And we have teenagers now. And you know, the corsage and the thing. What are you gonna do in the rain? And I mean this. I was literally reading my wife and then I forget the exact.

[Mel Robbins]

I'm the villain in the book. I forget the exact.

[Oliver Hudson]

I forget the exact line. But when your husband we're like, you know, there's only four tables in this restaurant. I forget the exact line. But your husband's like, yeah, okay. Like. And I was like, that's me.

[Mel Robbins]

He's Buddhist. That's why nothing bothers him. Which really pisses me off.

[Oliver Hudson]

Is he really.

[Mel Robbins]

My husband is Buddhist. Oh, okay. And so, you know, I. And in case you don't know what the let them theory is, it's very, very simple. It is the fastest way to feel less stressed, to be more in control, to have more peace in your life, is to stop trying to control what other people think. Say, do believe and let them be. And then take your power back and focus on yourself. I mean, this is Viktor Frankl's man search for meaning.

[Oliver Hudson]

Three months into the Serenity Prayer.

[Mel Robbins]

But this is a tool that I've leveraged all this ancient wisdom and these therapeutic practices and spiritual philosophies into a tool that's just four words. To your point, though, about the healing, I do believe that if you didn't talk yourself into the trauma, you can't talk yourself out of it. And I'll give you an example. So when I was younger, like you, I was in a car accident where the car that I was in rolled and my mom was driving, and we were up in Northern Michigan and we were near Kalkaska, and the radio announcer came on and said something about the effect of black ice and be careful out there. And all of a sudden a guy went to pass us and then a semi truck was coming and he cut in front of us and my mom went off the side of the road. The car rolled, and we ended up with her up and me down. And thankfully we had our seatbelts on, but the dog went from the front to the back. We were okay. And the thing that's interesting about that experience is that my mom and I were both in the car. It certainly was a traumatic experience in terms of the trauma response of all five senses coming online and capturing everything that happens. Because in a traumatic experience, it can go into slow motion. But what's interesting is that to this day, if my mom hears the words black ice, she feels like she's back in the car. If I hear the words black ice, I feel nothing. But if I walk to my mailbox on a snowy day and it's that kind of mailbox or kind of snow, that's like I am back in that car. I feel like I'm sitting in the dryer as things are flying around me. And there is no amount of talking that will get rid of the connection between that sound and the association with that memory. However, there are lots of things you can do, whether it's EMDR or it's some of the new psychedelic guided modalities that get into your body with the amygdala suspended and allow you to revisit those things in a calm state, which allows your brain to file those memories in long term storage. And so. So I believe what's very exciting is that Just because you endured something for a very long period of time doesn't mean it has to take you that long to heal it. And to your point, Goldie, it is so true that your brain is extraordinary in that it's not a storage unit. It's a processor that you can encode. And anytime that you decide. You know what, I'm tired of beating myself up. I'm tired of feeling like the victim. I'm tired of telling myself that success happens for other people, but it never happens for somebody like me. I want to change the settings in my mind, and I want to learn how to encode my mind with the kind of thoughts that help me take the steps that help me believe, because I actually think the biggest thing that people struggle with, it's not a lack of information. Because if you're stuck and you don't like your life, go to AI. Go to Microsoft Copilot and type in what's wrong and ask it for 10 suggestions. It'll work. The problem's going to be that if you're at a point in your life, and I have certainly been there, where you are so discouraged and you don't have hope, you will tell yourself it doesn't matter, and you won't take the steps to either change the way you think or change the way you start your day or change the things you eat or change the people that you hang out with that actually do change everything over time.

[Goldie Hawn]

What happens is that they say, well, that's the way I am.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Goldie Hawn]

No, it's not. It's the way you think you are.

[Mel Robbins]

Yep.

[Goldie Hawn]

But it's not the way you are. And there's definitely fluidity of understanding that you don't have to stay with who you perceive yourself to be.

[Mel Robbins]

That's true.

[Goldie Hawn]

So it's really. It's a. It's a beautiful message.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, once again, we have to make a part two, because this is just too good. This is just. It's too fascinating. There's too much to talk about. So we are. We're doing a part two of Mel. It's. It's an impossibility not to. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Okay, let's talk holiday shopping. When you want to make the most of your money, head to the PayPal app before you check out. They give you the flexibility to pay in four no fees, no interest. And this is big. You can get 5% cash back when you pay later with PayPal. So whether you're shopping for a gift for the kids, your spouse, or one for yourself. PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Save the offer in the PayPal app expires 1231. See paypal.com promoterms Subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com Paying for PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457 you know that feeling.

[Kate Hudson]

When you're on an island vacation? Sun on your face, cocktail in hand, no deadlines or demands? That's Tommy Bahama. In their world, the living's always easy, the drinks are always good, and summer lasts forever. Seriously, Tommy Bahama knows how to take you to your happy place. From their signature prints to their flattering fits, it's like if style and vacation had a baby. Effortless. It's sophisticated. It's art. It's giving. I'm on a beach somewhere and no, I cannot come to the phone right now. And it's not just for me. Their menswear is designed with the same next level comfort and feel good fabric so everyone could get in on the getaway. And Tommy Bahama restaurants and bars don't even get me started. I actually go to them because I love the desert and there is a Tommy Bahama restaurant in the desert and my son and I go there all the time. We drink Mai tais, we have good vibes and it's the world's best coconut shrimp served daily, full on relaxation mode. So if you are into craftsmanship, quality and making every day feel like a vacay, Tommy Bahama is where it's at. Check them out tommybahama.com and find a restaurant, bar or store near you. That's Tommy Bahama.com do you like free money?

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, today's your lucky day. Better Picks is offering a free $10 just for signing up. Download the Better app, pick more or less on your favorite player's stats, watch the games and win some cash. It's that simple. Better Pick is available in 33 states including Texas, California and Georgia. Download the Better App today. That's Better Betr and get a free $10. No deposit necessary. Must be 21 or older in a jurisdiction where Better Picks operates, terms and conditions apply. Better Picks Sports just got better. Hey audiobook lovers. I'm Cal Penn. I'm Ed Helms. Ed and I are inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with our new podcast, Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Each week we sit down with your favorite iHeart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest and greatest audiobooks from Audible. Listen to Earsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Earsay and start listening on the free iHeartradio app today. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons n Safeway now through November 4th. Shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel, Dial Liquid Hand Soap and Olay Body wash. And save $5 when you spend $25 or more. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details. This is an iHeart podcast.