← Sibling Revelry with Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson
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- [00:00]
Dr. Laura Berman
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Kate Hudson
Guaranteed Human.
- [00:04]
Oliver Hudson
With my oldest son, Wilder, leaving for college in May, one of my New Year's resolutions is to take more family getaways. It's very important to get away with just the fam. No distractions. So if you are planning any trips over the winter, you could be hosting your own home on Airbnb. And with the co host network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication, and even styling your space. Find a co host@airbnb.com hosting so when I'm busy. It can be hard to make healthy choices, but Premier Protein is a great solution. It's the easy and delicious way to power your day. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. They're a healthy choice that I actually want to make. So my favorite flavor, I got two. I love the cinnamon and I love the chocolate peanut butter. I go between big cinnamon family, but chocolate peanut butter, you cannot go wrong with those two combinations. It feels like a total treatment. It takes a lot of energy to keep up with my three crazy active kids. And Premier Protein powers me to say yes to more. So find your favorite flavor@premierprotein.com that's P R E M I E R protein dot com. Or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers. Hi, I'm Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.
- [01:22]
Kate Hudson
We wanted to do something that highlighted.
- [01:24]
Oliver Hudson
Our relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling rivalry.
- [01:35]
Kate Hudson
No, no sibling rivalry. Don't do that with your mouth.
- [01:42]
Oliver Hudson
Sibling revelry.
- [01:47]
Kate Hudson
That's good.
- [01:52]
Oliver Hudson
Why don't you feel?
- [01:53]
Kate Hudson
Well, me? I. I think I'm just coming. I've just been. Just going, you know, and I'm just tired and I felt. I feel a little ach today and like, I just want to be in.
- [02:04]
Oliver Hudson
Run down.
- [02:05]
Kate Hudson
Yeah, I'm feeling run down.
- [02:07]
Oliver Hudson
You know, it's making those award. The award pushes just so.
- [02:11]
Kate Hudson
It's hard.
- [02:12]
Dr. Laura Berman
Shut up.
- [02:13]
Oliver Hudson
You know when you're going to all the dinners and stop sort of saying how great you are, all the great cocktails.
- [02:21]
Kate Hudson
Enough, Oliver.
- [02:22]
Oliver Hudson
You know, all the red carpets of like, oh, my God, K's a genius.
- [02:26]
Dr. Laura Berman
That's tough.
- [02:31]
Kate Hudson
I feel like the wrap party really did me in.
- [02:35]
Oliver Hudson
Yeah.
- [02:35]
Kate Hudson
That late night, you know, and then. And now it's just. And then you're just, like hugging so many people. You know, it's like any other face. Someone gave me something, of course.
- [02:50]
Oliver Hudson
Oh, without a doubt.
- [02:51]
Kate Hudson
Yeah.
- [02:52]
Oliver Hudson
There's absolutely no Doubt about that. Probably Brad Pitt.
- [03:00]
Kate Hudson
I'm really excited about who we're about to interview because these are like my favorite topics of conversation.
- [03:07]
Oliver Hudson
It is.
- [03:08]
Kate Hudson
I did this thing for Bustle where we did like sex talk with Kate. I was like, wait, I really want to do this. Like, I actually want to do like a 10 minute YouTube.
- [03:18]
Oliver Hudson
Yeah.
- [03:19]
Kate Hudson
Show that's just like people write in about relationships.
- [03:23]
Oliver Hudson
Oh, yeah. It's so fun. Well, because first of all, Laura Berman is going to be coming on in a few seconds. But it's, it's, it's, you know, sexuality, sexual experiences between couples. Like you need to have that. That intimacy is extremely important. Otherwise I could just marry my best friend John and like raise kids with him, you know, like, which I still considering.
- [03:47]
Kate Hudson
I think most women love the idea of raising children with their best friends.
- [03:52]
Oliver Hudson
No. That's so funny. I know.
- [03:54]
Kate Hudson
Yeah.
- [03:55]
Oliver Hudson
Erin talks about.
- [03:56]
Kate Hudson
But I feel like that's the way it was way back. Back. Pre. Like. Yeah. Pre. Pre. Property kind of. Yeah. Ownership.
- [04:06]
Oliver Hudson
But. But don't. But didn't they back then need intimacy or was it just like.
- [04:11]
Kate Hudson
Yeah, but I think tribal. I think the tribe, like more of like when, when we were kind of in families under 100 people, like communities under 150 people. We were, our families raised our kids and, and our intimacy and our sex was outside of the family, obviously. You know, hopefully.
- [04:33]
Oliver Hudson
Yeah.
- [04:35]
Kate Hudson
Because. Because sort of you relied on sex and men for procreation, but then your family, your brothers and sisters and parents raised the children, not your partner.
- [04:46]
Oliver Hudson
Yeah. And sexuality is almost like a personality. Everyone's a little bit different. You know, everyone has their own different ideas of what feels good or what they want.
- [04:55]
Kate Hudson
I know. I love all this stuff because there was this thing called like the sexual blueprint. Like what is your blueprint? Like what's your kink? You know, and like some people are just like sex oriented. Like, it's just like they just want to get right to it. Some people are more kinky. Like, some people are more like, like they, they, they're more expressive. Like they need to talk about, you know.
- [05:20]
Oliver Hudson
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:21]
Kate Hudson
Everybody has their own weird. Some people are experimental and like, like being an open relationship, it's like, you.
- [05:30]
Oliver Hudson
Know, let's bring her on because these are all amazing questions to talk to. Ask her.
- [05:35]
Kate Hudson
Oh, hey, how are you?
- [05:40]
Dr. Laura Berman
Good. How are you guys?
- [05:42]
Oliver Hudson
Good, good, good, good. We're very, very excited to have you on. We were just doing our preamble and you know, this is a topic. It sounds strange for siblings to sort of have this connection or to be able to express themselves like this. But Katie and I talk about this stuff all the time.
- [06:00]
Kate Hudson
Laura, how did you get into Dr. Dr. Laura, how did you get into this specifically?
- [06:07]
Oliver Hudson
Yeah, Zachs.
- [06:09]
Dr. Laura Berman
Well, you know, I set out to be a couples therapist, and I am a couples therapist. A relationship therapist. But in my training, you know, when a therapist is in training, you see clients, and then you have a supervisor, and you go to your supervisor and you say, hey, I had this couple, and they, blah, blah, blah, what should I do? And they tell you what to do, and you go back and you do it. And so, because I grew up in a family like yours, which, by the way, is very rare, I think you may know that I was totally comfortable. Like, it didn't occur to me that this was something, you know, weird to talk about. So couples would just naturally bring sexual issues up. Duh, right? And I brought it. When I started bringing it to my supervisor, she looked at me like I was some kind of perv. And she was like, why are they talking to you about their sex life? I'm like, cause I'm. We're doing couples therapy. And it quickly dawned on me that, like, no one in my graduate school, my supervisors, nobody talked about sex, which made zero sense to me. How can you be a couples therapist and not address sex? So I got really pissed, and I decided to get my own training, and I talked my way into the NYU Medical School's fellowship training program that was only open to medical students, but I wasn't obviously a medical student. But I talked my way in there, and I got fellowship trained, and I started getting trained in that. And then I accidentally got famous for that part. I mean, I'm. That's just so. And it's just always been something that has come easily to me. I always say that, you know, I'm not good at a lot of things, but when it comes to sex, love, and relationships, I'm kind of a savant.
- [07:52]
Oliver Hudson
Let me. Let me. There's so much to talk about, because I was just saying to Kate earlier, you know, sexuality is almost like a fingerprint in a way. Everyone is a little bit different, you know, and we have to sort of find our paths to each other sometimes, you know? But before we get into that, I wonder, you know, how important is sex in a relationship? Of course I think I know the answer to this. But on the flip side of that, how often do you see the lack of sexual intimacy, break up a relationship, marriage or boyfriend, girlfriend, you know, is that a big Factor.
- [08:28]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah. And that second question is partly the answer to the first, because when sex is working in a relationship, it's just a part of the working relationship. So in that sense, it's just part of it. It's not like the part of it.
- [08:44]
Kate Hudson
It's like a mirror to the intimacy.
- [08:46]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yes. And it's a huge part of it. That's beautiful. However, when it's not working, that's when it starts to fray the fiber of your connection. That's when it starts to put your relationship at risk. And, you know, that's not to say if your sex life sucks, one or both of you are going to have affairs, although that certainly happens. But I see so many couples who, you know, one in five couples are living in sexless marriages, which means 10 or less times a year. And even I think those statistics have actually drastically increased since the incidents, you know, since social media and people are fubbing each other all the time, you know, snubbing each other with their phones or just sitting next to each other and not connecting. But the problem is that when it's not working, that's when you start to have a real disconnect. And you can live without sex, and plenty of couples do, but you're living like roommates, and there's an aspect of your connection that is really missing. Not to mention not just the relationship benefits of sex, but all the health benefits of it.
- [09:52]
Oliver Hudson
How would you answer this question, which I think has shifted and changed, especially for me personally, because once I became more vulnerable and more connected to my wife, which happened only in the last, like, six years because I've been through some shit, you know, sex got different for me. But this whole idea that men need to have sex to feel connected and women need to feel connected to have sex, is that debunked or is that true?
- [10:17]
Dr. Laura Berman
No, that is so true. And I think you could say it even just beyond gender, about the masculine and feminine, right? So if you're. In order to have a healthy sexual connection, you need polarity. One of you needs to be more in your masculine, the other needs to be more in their feminine. It doesn't matter what gender you are. So you could be a guy more in his feminine with another guy who's more in his masculine. Fill in whatever gender you want there. But the one that lives in their masculine achieves a sense of emotional closeness and connection through the physical act of sex. The one that is more in their feminine achieves, you know, doesn't want to have sex unless they feel that emotional connection. And Closeness, especially in a long term relationship. If you're talking about one night stands or the beginning of a relationship, everybody wants to have sex. But in a long term relationship, that is a huge part. So for the woman or for the feminine, a huge part of her sexual inspiration is how close she feels to her partner. And the irony is that's where you get the sex, romance, stalemate. So she may not be as available for sex even after childbirth or menopause or any other thing that stress, whatever, and she withdraws from her availability for sex and then he is less tapped in, tuned in, emotionally connected, and then she's that much less available for sex and then that whole stalemate kicks in.
- [11:42]
Oliver Hudson
Kate, I started to take this over. I actually have a question for you, Kate Hudson.
- [11:46]
Kate Hudson
Oh, geez. Yeah, maybe I don't want to do this.
- [11:49]
Oliver Hudson
No. Because again, well, well, Kate, you obviously extremely feminine, you know, there's no doubt. But you have a strong, you have a masculine side to you, just as I have a feminine streak. I should probably go on, you know, testosterone to have more masculinity. But you are, you know, so do you feel like you need to feel connected to have sex or do you feel like you.
- [12:13]
Kate Hudson
Well, it's funny you're asking me this because I sometimes go, it, I wait, I. It wavers for me, like it shifts. I think the thing is I'm incredibly, I'm incredibly feminine when it comes to connective, like if things are going off, if things are like not connecting in the relationship, I usually don't feel like I want to have sex with my, with the partner. That being said, I am also the kind of person that's like, I'll just make myself have sex and I'll feel better. So I'll shut that part off and be like, then once I have sex and I get that, like that dopamine going and that connective tissue back a little bit, then I can kind of, it actually opens something up for me that I'm like, oh, I actually feel more connected than I did. Even though, like sometimes you actually, I think this is my own thing. Sometimes I think you actually just need to have sex with your partner. Even if you're not feeling it, you need to kind of almost like get your head around it differently because usually afterwards you feel a different sense of closeness.
- [13:25]
Dr. Laura Berman
Amen. I love that. And you're absolutely right. I mean, I say that to people all the time. You may be wanting to watch the latest episode of your favorite show or do something else on your to do list. But once you get going. And women say this to me all the time, because women are typically the ones less interested. Not always, but the majority of the time is like, once I get going and I'm done, I think, oh, I should do this more often. This was really fun. And you've now created deeper connection with your partner, and then he is more emotionally tuned in. So assuming you're not despising each other and there's really huge issues going on, I always say there is a lot of power to just doing it.
- [14:10]
Kate Hudson
Yeah, I feel like there's a. Especially, like, with, like, the mismatched libido. Like, I think as it's one thing in your 20s, everybody's, like, firing on all cylinders. I. I'm gonna get a little weird on this. I'd love to know what you think about this, because I have this theory, right. Like, women are so fascinating because. And we don't talk about this enough, that men. Men's libidos, it's like they come out the gate hot. And then naturally, without things helping them, you know, they start their libido and their hormones start to change. Actually, younger than women and ours, we sort of come into our peak older, and it's. It's not necessarily matched. So if you're sort of around the same age as your partner, for Women in our mid-30s, we start to kind of peak and get very much into our sexual peak, whereas men's libidos are now coming out of their peak. Is this a correct?
- [15:18]
Dr. Laura Berman
Well, there is. There is truth to what you're saying, but not for the reason I think that you're saying, because hormonally, you know, Starting in our mid-30s, things are really getting, you know, so we're not as hormonally supported for wanting sex in our mid-30s and beyond as we were in our 20s. So, for instance, a woman in her 60s has half the testosterone, which is that hormone of desire that a woman in her 20s has, and it's slowly declining throughout her lifespan. So that by the mid to late 30s, and especially if she's on hormonal contraceptives, which bind up even more testosterone and keep it from being available for the body to use, she's often physiologically not prone to be horny. However, emotionally and intellectually, she has been through some shit. She knows more who she is. She's more comfortable in her body. She knows what she likes. So she's like, let's go. You know. So emotionally and intellectually, she's more there. Whereas guys, yes, their Testosterone slowly declines, but usually they see the biggest drop off in their 50s will you start to see low testosterone and the effects of that. But at the same time, a guy in their 20s is like a rabbit, right? And once he's getting to 35, he has responsibilities, he has stress. The one thing that I see time and time again, and this is interesting to look at how stress affects libido. We could go into a whole rabbit hole around that. But for women, any kind of stress can affect her libido. For men, the primary stress that seems to affect their libido is job or money related stress. Because that hits them, you know, right in the cojones, so to speak, in their sense of manhood. So often we'll see in the mid-30s, men having a lot. I have a family to support. I have the bills to pay. I have a lot of, you know, so a lot of that stress will start kicking in. That lower makes them less like, woo hoo, let's go.
- [17:18]
Kate Hudson
You know.
- [17:18]
Dr. Laura Berman
But in general, I always say that, like the way we approach sex, men are like a microwave oven. They can get going pretty quickly when the opportunity presents itself. Where women, you know, we're like a slow burning stove. We need to be kind of stoked, you know, and connected to and those fires fanned a little bit.
- [17:41]
Oliver Hudson
I know when you have kids, though, sometimes it's hard to like, stoke it.
- [17:44]
Dr. Laura Berman
That's why when I say if you're waiting to have, you know, if you're, if you're waiting for sex to happen spontaneously, once you have kids, you're going to be waiting a long time. You have to, you have to really be intentional about planning it and setting time aside for it or it won't happen.
- [17:59]
Kate Hudson
I wonder, like that's, that's fascinating. So it's not. It really is more stress related than it is actually. The way the body functions.
- [18:09]
Oliver Hudson
Makes sense. It makes sense, yeah. Stress is the killer of everything, including your libido.
- [18:16]
Dr. Laura Berman
It definitely is. It's a big one.
- [18:23]
Oliver Hudson
So with my oldest son, Wilder, leaving for college in May.
- [18:27]
Dr. Laura Berman
Q.
- [18:28]
Oliver Hudson
Tears rolling down my face right now, one of my New Year's resolutions is to take my family on more getaways. So we just got back from Colorado and now we're trying to figure out where we want to head next. And a great way to find inspiration is by looking at places on Airbnb. It's like you can just scroll through and dream. Now if you're planning any trips over the winter, you could be hosting your own home on airbnb. Now, with the Airbnb Co Host network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything, like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication, on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning extra cash. Find a co host@airbnb.com host it can be tough trying to balance everything in life, and that can affect healthy choices. Sometimes you get on a nice train. Boom. Healthy, healthy. But if your life gets thrown off one way or another, you can revert back to just eating junk food. So Premier protein is a great go to solution. It's the easy and delicious way to power your day. They have 30 grams of protein, 160 calories, no added sugar, and they taste amazing. They're a healthy choice I actually want to make with a wide variety of flavors, from cafe latte to cake batter. It never feels boring. My personal favorite is the cinnamon roll. We're a cinnamon family. Anything cinnamon, my family eats. It feels like total treat. 30 grams of protein gives me the fuel you need. And not just for intense gym sessions, which I'm getting my pump on right now, but it's for getting after life. It takes a lot of energy to keep up with my three active kids, and my premier protein powers me to say yes to more. So find your favorite flavor@premier protein.com that's P R E M I E R protein.com. or at Amazon, Walmart and other major retailers.
- [20:18]
Kate Hudson
Okay. Throuples and open relationships are increasingly becoming more and more popular and more, like.
- [20:26]
Oliver Hudson
Are they, you know.
- [20:27]
Kate Hudson
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And nice. And I have a lot of. I have a lot of friends who actually are in very like, successful, loving throuple relationships, which is wild. Yeah. When I talk to them about it, I'm always fascinated because I'm like, this is so fascinating because I find that there's sort of a lack of possessiveness that they have to have in order to exist in this relationship. And their whole theory of, like, I don't want, I don't want to get in the way of my partner's life. Whole life experience. I am like, personally, like, I would go crazy. There's no way I would be able. I'd be like, I. I would find that I would find myself feeling insecure or, or, or, you know, maybe having a, you know, feeling jealous, envious of, of different kinds of connection.
- [21:41]
Dr. Laura Berman
And.
- [21:41]
Kate Hudson
But when I talk to my friends about it, they're like, it goes through different waves. Like, sometimes I feel more connected to my female partner. And sometimes I feel moments of more connection with my male partner and vice ve versa. Sometimes I'm out in the world and I'm being more independent. They're more connected. But, like, her whole thing is, like, when we. When I feel that sense of need, I realize that it's not coming from them. It's actually coming from me. What is it that I need in order to exist in this relationship in a better way? And I'm like, this is so evolved.
- [22:15]
Oliver Hudson
Yes, well, that was gonna be my question. Is the evolution of sex? Is this where we're heading?
- [22:22]
Dr. Laura Berman
Well, yes and no. I think we could talk about the reasons why I think it's happening. But what you're saying, Kate, is really. And what you're describing is so true. And this is. In my experience, very few throuples, open relationships survive because they don't have what you're describing. You have to be so emotionally mature and attuned and taking care of your own stuff and not possessive and not jealous. And all of us like to think that we're not possessive and jealous, but most of us are. I certainly am.
- [23:01]
Oliver Hudson
I am.
- [23:02]
Dr. Laura Berman
I mean, I have that part of me. So you have to be so evolved psychologically and emotionally and have healed so many wounds and be so, so good at communication and authenticity and honesty. And the truth is, most of us, unless we've been in poop, tons of therapy and have tons of work and are committed to really keeping the communication so clean and pure and taking responsibility for our own stuff, not just us, but everyone else in the open relationship or the throuple has to be doing that. It very rarely works because of that, but when it does, it's because everyone's doing that so effectively. And I think part of the reason that's been evolving, and that's really the reason I wrote Sex Magic, is I didn't think. I mean, this is my 10th book. I didn't think I had another sex book in me. You know, I was like. I said everything about how to give oral sex, how to deal with uneven desire. Like, I've done it all. But through and after the pandemic, I noticed a huge shift. And part of it, honestly, is because pornhub went free, and ev. And everyone was stuck at home, just, you know, so all kinds of stuff started evolving out of that. And then coming out of that, people were like, look, I want to live differently. And also, I think this Generation of, like, 35 and under is kind of looking at sex and relationships differently, and that's part of it too. And by the way, we are not designed for monogamy for life. We're actually. We evolved to be serially monogamous. You know, like, actually the number one, the divorce rate across the world is when the youngest. The highest divorce rate is when the youngest child reaches three years, which is really, from an evolutionary perspective. This is how we anthropologists believe and archeologists believe we created these sex contracts where the woman would say, okay, I'm only gonna have sex with you so you can be sure these genes are yours. And in exchange, you hunt for us, you protect us. Because I can't do it, because I'm taking care of this infant. And then when the infant could go on my back or walk alongside me while I'm gathering and doing my usual thing, then we'll part ways. And monogamy was developed as an economic thing and then became a religious thing. And monogamy for life, I mean, we. We died at 50 if we were lucky to live that long. Right now, monogamy for life is till we're 100.
- [25:30]
Oliver Hudson
Yes. That's so funny you said that. I know this isn't my idea, obviously, but I thought the exact same thing like six months ago, because I was having a conversation with someone and I was like, well, wait a minute. When you fucking think about it, we live to like 35. So you're only married for like five years and then you just die. Now it's like you live till 168 and you're like, I love you, baby. Like, happy hundred year anniversary, Like Jesus.
- [25:54]
Kate Hudson
Jesus Christ, you know, so it's a lot of work.
- [25:58]
Oliver Hudson
But how do you maintain monogamy then? I mean, how do you just. I mean, I know it's been evolved not out of us, but to at least 50% statistically. But, you know, you have to work at monogamy. You have to try to be so hard.
- [26:12]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah. That whole myth that it's supposed to be effortless if it's love is a crock of. Yeah. No, it requires constant commitment and recommitment, really attending to the nurturing and the feeding of your connection and real honesty. You know, one of the things that I counsel my couples on all the time is really about how to be honest. Like, I would. You know, I was on a business trip and I noticed that I was really attracted and I started flirting with the woman sitting next to me. And, you know, I'm tuning in and tapping into the fact that I need more of that energy in this relationship. So. So I'M going to take responsibility on my end for creating more of that.
- [26:57]
Kate Hudson
I love you saying this because I think these are the things that people think.
- [27:01]
Dr. Laura Berman
It's.
- [27:02]
Kate Hudson
It would hurt the partner. But I actually think that's how you. It's, it's like almost like being in denial.
- [27:08]
Dr. Laura Berman
But also, you know, a big part of successful long term relationships is each of you taking your a hundred percent. So it's one thing if you go to your partner and say, this isn't working for me. I'm not happy. I'm looking over here versus like what's my hundred percent? I want more romance. How am I not showing up welcoming romance or being initiating romance?
- [27:29]
Oliver Hudson
More.
- [27:29]
Dr. Laura Berman
I want more play. What am I not? You know, so I'm, I'm here saying this is missing and this is what I'm committed to doing.
- [27:38]
Kate Hudson
Yeah.
- [27:38]
Dr. Laura Berman
On my end. Will you join me, Laura?
- [27:41]
Kate Hudson
Do you find that women are better at that than men? I find in my experience, experiences, women that women like. I. It is not hard for me to say this is what I need.
- [27:52]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah.
- [27:53]
Kate Hudson
But I find that it's you. Like anytime I'm sitting with a group of women, it's always about like, I've said it, I've been saying it for years. Yeah, this is what I need. I couldn't have. I put it out on a platter for him. I gave him every opportunity to know exactly what it was that I needed and he could never show up for it. It's a very, it feels like a very common thing that women, you know, share with each other a lot. I know, I've experienced it. And then what happens is then women are just done. Yeah.
- [28:28]
Dr. Laura Berman
Eventually it's like a door closes, a.
- [28:31]
Kate Hudson
Door closes, a light switch goes off. And then the man is like, what the fuck?
- [28:35]
Oliver Hudson
The labia closes.
- [28:36]
Dr. Laura Berman
Let's be honest, that too. That usually happens first.
- [28:39]
Kate Hudson
Clenched. Clenched clothes locked.
- [28:44]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah.
- [28:44]
Kate Hudson
But then the men. And then men are sitting there going, what happened?
- [28:49]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah, I mean, part of that is because, you know, like I do see a lot of like so many couples come in and she's like, I've been telling him I need more romance. And he's like, I am romantic. I bring you flowers once a week. And you know, and she's so, and she's like, no, that's not what I mean. You know, but she's so. It's not just saying what you need. Men need an instruction manual. They need. So I'll sit down and be like, okay, what are the things that you, you know, let's give him a 20 item list of things that are romantic to you because that's a different definition for everyone else. If he has a direction and specific ideas, most men, if he's motivated and is invested in the relationship, will do that. But what you're saying about the emotional attunement and his ability to kind of be able to talk about and even access his feelings, much less articulate them, that is not something most men were raised to even know how to do. I can't tell you how many men sit in my office and as we start to talk, they can't even tell me how they feel in the moment that they're listening to their partner say XYZ to them. And I'm like, okay, so I have to go to like, where are you? What are you feeling in your body right now? Scan your. Okay, I'm feeling tightness in my back. Okay, that's anger. I'm feeling tightness in my chest. Okay, that's fear. So I sometimes have to like, start with the body to get them to start having an emotional vocabulary that they've never even been able to access before. And it's our, it's been our fault.
- [30:25]
Kate Hudson
I love that. I love that. Because we do hold in our body energetically so much. I feel like. And maybe I know that people sometimes think it's like, oh, it's all like hoity doity, kind of out up in the stars and in the, you know, you know, fairy dust realm. But I really feel like a huge part of sex is being connected to your spiritual center and like how you're able to let go, like how you're able to open up where you hold like all those things you're talking about.
- [30:57]
Dr. Laura Berman
Amen.
- [30:58]
Kate Hudson
And, and so much when you talk about fear, I think so much of that happens in. There's like, there's like two extremes. I mean, there's a lot of extremes. Such a huge spectrum. But you find that like some people find sex to be the outlet. It's where they can be everything that they can't be on the outside. It's why it ends up becoming a secret world for them.
- [31:25]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah.
- [31:26]
Kate Hudson
And then there's the other side, which is then, then the other thing, which is like, then when you have an intimate partner, then sex, to be able to really open up and to be vulnerable and intimate with someone becomes something so ex. You feel very exposed.
- [31:41]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yes. Because the stakes are much higher.
- [31:44]
Kate Hudson
Right, right. And I guess the question is, it's like, how does one work with their body in order to Actually be able to open up more connection to their partner versus, like, keeping it held in. Do you know?
- [31:59]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah, well, so part of what you're talking about are inhibitions, right? And part of it are all the messages that we've internalized. Not just that we got growing up, about what's okay and not okay sexually, what a nice girl does and doesn't do. Even if intellectually at this point, we don't subscribe to it. That there's a part of us inside us that still does. And any kind of trauma or betrayal or humiliation or any of those things that have happened to us along the way. The body keeps the stimulus score a la Basil Van Der Kolt. So that's a huge part of the work that I do. That's a huge part of what I wrote about in the book is attuning. It's all about. Your body is your transceiver. It's not only how you put energy out, it's how you receive energy. And from a sexual standpoint, one of the most beautiful things you can do is start to. There's practices to open up. And first attune to where you're holding tension in the body, where you're shutting down. Yes. You know, Oliver, it may be your labia clenching, but sometimes there are other parts of yourself. And when you can start to attune to that, like, there's a practice, a somatic practice. I do with.
- [33:07]
Kate Hudson
I was gonna say somatic work. I love it. Yes.
- [33:09]
Dr. Laura Berman
I'm all about the somatic work. And one of my favorite things to do with people is, like, let's say it's a sexual thing, or they're noticing that this is happening. We'll say, okay, go back to that last sexual scenario in your mindset. Scan your body. Where are you holding. Where are you noticing? Tightness, clenching, whatever pain. They'll be like, okay, in my belly. And then we'll go all the way into that. We'll make it bigger. And it's so beautiful and fascinating. We'll make it bigger. It'll take on a color and a shape. And then I'll say, okay. First thing that occurs to you, what is the earliest memory you have of feeling this feeling? And they'll go immediately, without thought to, like, when I was seven years old, and I, you know, my Uncle Bill said XYZ to me when I was dancing around the kitchen. And, you know, I felt tremendous shame and whatever. Like, it's fascinating because as soon as you go into the body, the body will inform you on these Places. And then once shame is brought to the light so often, especially these little shames that we don't even know we are carrying, they evaporate. You know, once they're brought to light and you look at them with adult human eyes, you're like, no, that's ridiculous. You know, sometimes it's something big that needs to be worked through, but more often than not, it's something that we didn't even know we were carrying. And as you clean that up, you open the channels and sex at its finest. And you don't need open relationships and porn. And the next thing to get your dopamine hit at its most profound. That feeling of intense excitement is so much more available to you when you can open the channels and start moving that sexual energy through you, in between you. And that's like. That's why, you know, that's what sex magic is about.
- [34:55]
Kate Hudson
I love sex magic.
- [34:57]
Oliver Hudson
Yeah.
- [35:08]
Kate Hudson
Let's talk about porn, because I feel like this is like a big topic of conversation, like, also with girls, you know, how much porn do you watch together? How do you watch porn together? Do you not watch porn together? Do you find that if your partner's watching porn without you, that's a version of cheating? Do they hide the fact that they. You know, I feel like it's such a. It's such a thing.
- [35:32]
Oliver Hudson
And. And also. Also have a quick. Along those lines. I know poor porn is sort of seen as negative, which of course it is. It's infiltrating sort of the young minds and giving them a different idea of sex and what pleasure is and what the sexual experience is like. It is part of a natural evolution. I say natural because everything is evolving naturally, even though through tech. But is there any positivity to porn? You know?
- [35:58]
Dr. Laura Berman
Well, so this is interesting even for me, because I've been doing this for 30 years and until Pornhub went free. If you asked me this question unequivocally, I would say, you know what? There is definitely a place for porn in a healthy relationship. I am not anti porn. I think it can be used as long as it's not replacing sex or getting in the way of sex. Keeping in mind that it's not really a reasonable, you know, expression of what pleases a woman and what bodies look like and all those. It's not a good sex education, let's just put it that way. Now I actually feel differently about it because it has become so accessible and insidious and what happens. And they've now started to look at people's brains. And this is really fascinating and also scary. What they found is when you are looking at points, porn. So let's just take a guy who's looking at porn or a young boy who's looking at porn. The brain is perceiving what you're seeing on the screen as 2D, not 3D. So you're creating a neuropathway and a brain penis or brain body reaction to a two dimensional object, not a three dimensional person. And what they're finding is. So two things. One, the porn stimulates the dopamine centers. And that's the same part of the brain that lights up when you do coke. It's the addiction part of the brain. And just like with coke, you need more and more and more. Well, with porn it's not just more and more and more. You need heightened. Okay, I've seen enough of the post. You know, the teacher and the student. Now that doesn't do it for me anymore. It doesn't stimulate my. Now I need S and M. Now I need choking. Now I need violence now. You know, you have to keep upping the ante to get the same effect. So that's kind of dangerous, right? The second thing is that you are training the body to respond to 2D versus 3D. So what they're seeing is that men who are watching a lot of porn, especially when they start young, but even for older men, are having a harder time getting aroused by a three dimensional woman or man or whoever they're with. So they have to watch porn and in order to get aroused while they're having sex.
- [38:19]
Kate Hudson
Also I wonder how it like leads. There's all this, you know, like how it leads into sort of live, like the video, you know, all the video stuff.
- [38:29]
Dr. Laura Berman
Slippery.
- [38:30]
Kate Hudson
Oh my God. I had a friend who found out that their partner was like completely addicted to.
- [38:38]
Dr. Laura Berman
It's really addictive.
- [38:40]
Kate Hudson
And I was just like, yeah, but I think that goes to the thing like is that. I mean, I guess it's how you define cheating. But I would feel so. It would feel awful for me if I was in that, you know.
- [38:55]
Dr. Laura Berman
Well, historically, like before I would have said, okay, I get it, that it makes you feel insecure, but you have to understand that this is fantasy, right? And he doesn't want to be with that porn star. He wants to be with you. And all men self stimulate. And this is just what he's doing now. I feel differently because of what's been happening. And I do think that so many men and women, but it's mostly Men and young boys are getting into this cycle where they're addicted and they would rather go and, you know, take care of themselves quickly, watching some porn than engaging sex. Starting to replace sex with their partner. And that does feel like a betrayal.
- [39:38]
Oliver Hudson
Well, you know, I have a friend who's he, he got divorced. He's, he's a long term girlfriend now, but he had about you know, three years or so of being single. And he's my age, 49 years old. And it was all of these 25 to 27 year old girls who wanted this. Older, older men. And there's like this movement for it apparently. And sex was porn, meaning like everything was based off of what these girls, women were watching now. So is this how they feel like they need to please or is this just. It is, but it. So are they or is this just the new norm of how this is.
- [40:22]
Dr. Laura Berman
What they are being taught men want? So historically, boys were being poorly sex educated via porn. Now girls and boys are. And so they are thinking, oh, this is what men want. Oh, if I really want to turn him on, I'm going to be like a porn star. So choke me, baby, you know, hang me from the rafters, whatever. And look, if you're into that, go ahead. But these girls are not really into it, you know, and they've lost the art of fantasy. And I'm a very, I was a very, my youngest is 20 now. But when they were coming, you know, I was very open about sex. I was that mother that educated them. I had three boys, they all knew where the clitoris was, especially as I realized that they were heterosexual. We talked about everything. And I remember we had a conversation once because I have a line of sex toys and one of my boys, they were like 14, they had some friends over and he said, hey mom, will you give me one of your sex toys? And at this point I'm starting to realize the effects of porn. And I said, yes, as long as you promise that when you use, use it, you won't always use it to porn, that sometimes you'll use fantasy. And he looked at me like I had six heads and says, what is fantasy? And I was like, oh my God, I can't believe, like this is the world we're living in. So I sat all these boys down and I explained to them how to fantasize because they don't even know anymore because it's being fed to them through porn.
- [41:50]
Oliver Hudson
Yeah. Oh God. Especially with attention spans, your fantasies gonna last 30 seconds. Be like, wait a minute, forget this.
- [41:56]
Kate Hudson
It'S so interesting that we've lived in a world where like, we sort of kept. Keep all these things very quiet, as if, like, that's going to be the right thing to do versus demystifying it, which actually makes it much healthier.
- [42:08]
Dr. Laura Berman
So much healthier. That's why you guys are having this conversation.
- [42:12]
Kate Hudson
It's so fascinating that, like. Yeah, I wonder. I wonder where that. I mean, I'm sure it's just a construct that's from, you know, ages ago, but just like we do. There's just certain things you don't discuss.
- [42:24]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah, that's our. I mean, even on television, on the shows, I mean, you know this. Kate. There's so much sex, but nobody talks about it except behind closed doors. We're watching it. We're watching porn. We're watching it on network television. Even. Even on soap operas, they're showing tons of sex, but we don't talk about it in our own lives. And even, like, as I've been doing all the press on sex magic, all of a sudden, all of these television shows, morning shows that I would have gone on a hundred times, you're like, oh, we don't talk about sex. Like, what do you mean you don't talk about sex? The show that's on two hours after you, people are having sex, you know, but it's so interesting.
- [43:04]
Kate Hudson
It is interesting. I wonder too, like, when you. When you. I have. Now that I have a girl, I noticed that, like, girls, there's so much projection on young girls when they feel in their power, women, I look at my. My little girl and like, if she's feeling good or she's dancing a certain way, or she's like her older brothers or, you know, she like, like, no, like, you can't do that. You can't move like that. You can't wear that. Why is she wearing a, you know, a crop top? And I'm like, because she likes it.
- [43:43]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah. Yeah.
- [43:44]
Kate Hudson
And in her mind, it's not even about anything that she's. She just feels good.
- [43:49]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah. She's not trying to get anyone's attention.
- [43:51]
Kate Hudson
No.
- [43:52]
Dr. Laura Berman
And.
- [43:52]
Kate Hudson
And it's so. I find it fascinating how we, especially women, not men, how we. That.
- [44:01]
Dr. Laura Berman
That.
- [44:01]
Kate Hudson
That a woman's true nature, like her divine feminine.
- [44:05]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yes.
- [44:06]
Kate Hudson
Is very early on, like squelched, squelch and told, no. Cannot behave this way. You cannot be in that power. You cannot be that feminine or that expressive with it. You cannot show sensuality. You know, and then you become. And then you become, you know, you get shamed for it.
- [44:29]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yes.
- [44:30]
Kate Hudson
And you see it on, you see it on digital media. You see it all over the place. Yeah. And we're still doing it. It's like, it's like, I find it's like a programming.
- [44:40]
Dr. Laura Berman
It is absolutely a programming. And it's so misogynistic. And it's also basically victim blaming. It's saying to women, to little girls all the way through in this really insidious way, you have to shut this down because men can't control themselves, right? And so in order to be safe and to be respected, you can't be a sensual being. You know, and there's this insidious shutdown of it, that. And what you're watching, and they're doing it innocently and her brothers are being protective and they know what you know, I get all of that. But what's happening insidiously, you're watching in real time these little stickers that go over, you know, the beams of light, right? Like that just start tamping down her aliveness, her sensuality, her ability to feel comfortable in her body.
- [45:33]
Kate Hudson
Her true nature.
- [45:33]
Dr. Laura Berman
Her true nature.
- [45:35]
Oliver Hudson
But is there a line of what's appropriate?
- [45:37]
Dr. Laura Berman
Well, the same. What I was about to say to your question, Oliver, is that on the flip side, what I'm also seeing, especially among tween and teen girls, is that. And just like you were talking about the guy with the young women asking him, it's like they are being taught, it's this conflicted message, don't be in your sensuality. But if you want attention, if you want likes, then you've got to sexualize yourself. You gotta show the butt shot with you looking over your shoulder in the.
- [46:13]
Oliver Hudson
In the bikini, which you see so much of now.
- [46:16]
Kate Hudson
I love that shot. But.
- [46:18]
Oliver Hudson
Yeah, but you're also dealing with what.
- [46:19]
Dr. Laura Berman
You'Re saying, Laura, is I do too.
- [46:21]
Oliver Hudson
It's authenticity, it's authentic sense sensuality versus sort of I need clicks and likes. Sexual.
- [46:28]
Dr. Laura Berman
And what's the motivation? And what I see is that girls are doing this in mass. Not because, you know, I love the way my butt looks and I'm just feeling it in the moment, but that this is how I know I will get likes. This is. And, and this is the interesting thing I'll never forget. This was one episode I did with on the Oprah show years ago. Years ago, I met with a bunch of, of middle school girls and we started talking about sex and they taught me something really powerful that I've continued to confirm through the years that girls will sexualize themselves. They'll send naked pictures. They'll do whatever to the boy that asks, especially if he's a popular boy or a desirable boy. So she will objectify herself. She will move beyond her boundaries of comfort to keep his attention, not for him. What she's wanting is for him to be interested in her because that makes her more popular with the other girls. If she has access to the popular boys or the desirable boys, the other girls. So it's social collateral. But at the same time, then she's being slut shamed by the girls. So it's like this whole mess. Stop bullying toxicity.
- [47:45]
Kate Hudson
I just worry about girls and this next generation because, you know, we. But. But then again, it's like I worry about girls and then I. And then I'm not. Because we're so tough, because we've been dealing with some sort of version of this for forever. So, you know, that's just a change. But I just. It's the changing of the, you know, kind of like how were. You know, again, like how we're. We're dealing with this sort of social aspect of.
- [48:17]
Oliver Hudson
Oh, it's so crazy to watch the kids growing up and I have 18, 15 and 12, two boys and a little girl, and watching how it's all sort of evolving and what. There's how they perceive sexuality and perceive girls. And, you know, I walk around there, you know, you drop them off at school and you look at what. How people generally girls are dressing now versus when I was in middle school and high school. And I'm like a whole holy. I'm like, you got what? That's what. And the boys are just. They're like, dad, you're nuts. Like, this is just what it is.
- [48:48]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah. They don't even know. They're. They're kind of immune to it.
- [48:51]
Oliver Hudson
They're immune to it 100%. When you're dealing with boys growing up now going through puberty and sort of this primal nature, going back to the primal side of things and watching sort of how the landscape and society is shifting, you know, and then sort of wrestling with this idea of I feel these. Not aggressive, but I feel these sexual feelings towards these girls. But now I sort of have to be careful with it and hold it in. Do you see anything sort of that has shifted in a way with sort of, you know, in after the MeToo movements?
- [49:26]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah.
- [49:27]
Oliver Hudson
And all of that stuff.
- [49:28]
Dr. Laura Berman
Well, I think it's really important from the time they're early, early, early, teaching them about consent, like when they're hugging each other as little Kids, you know. Oh, John, you know, Susie says she doesn't want to be hugged. You know, so teaching them on and on and on about consent. And when I was doing, you know, sex education of your kids should be an ongoing conversation, right? Not just one talk. So in those conversations, you're always talking about, like, I've talked to my boys not only about getting consent every step of the way and that their partner, even if you've gotten, you know, third base or whatever, or, you know, if she's ready to stop, you gotta stop, but also that if she's been under, if she's taken anything or is the slightest bit drunk, which frankly for us was not the case. Right. You know, you cannot assume she can give consent like that. From a me too perspective is a really big deal. And I've seen so many boys, especially college age boys, take. Taken down, kicked out of school, like hardcore because they were at, you know, some frat party, the girl was drunk, but, like, was into it and then not. I don't mean to blame her, and I'm not saying she meant to give consent, but, like, that's why we have to educate boys about that piece and about, you know, really. And the porn thing, I'm telling you is huge. Like, once you tell a boy, listen, if you want, and it's the truth, if you watch too much porn, you're gonna have a hard time getting it up with a real woman. They will not watch as much porn. That's the truth. And I think boys need to be educated about that because we're seeing a huge increase in young men and boys addicted to porn and unable to function sexually in the real world.
- [51:14]
Oliver Hudson
Not to mention how their palms will get hairy. Yeah, that too much, right?
- [51:19]
Dr. Laura Berman
That too. And they have really. No, that's a myth. That's a myth. They used to tell us to shame us.
- [51:25]
Oliver Hudson
That was a myth. For a.
- [51:29]
Dr. Laura Berman
That's a big one.
- [51:30]
Oliver Hudson
Masturbate. Your palms will get hairy.
- [51:33]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah, that was a good one.
- [51:35]
Kate Hudson
That's so funny.
- [51:45]
Oliver Hudson
Real quickly, just getting back to the cup. Like, what is the. What is the most common thing that you see in your practice from a sexual standpoint with couples and sort of how they can disconnect or how they can get back?
- [52:01]
Dr. Laura Berman
Well, it's really uneven. Desire. And there's several things that. I'll just tell you a real quick litany. You want to really invest. Like I was saying before, even if you need to schedule sex, embrace it. Don't scoff at it. You will start to look forward to it. You'll start to anticipate it. But it's also about building that romantic and emotional connection. So there's simple things you can do. Most couples don't Talk more than 15 minutes a week about things other than the logistics of their lives. So even if you spend an extra 15 minutes with all technology off, in fact, try to give yourself an hour a day hanging out, at least without your technology near you. But if you have 15 minutes a week where you're just listening to music, talking about things other than logistics, kissing and cuddling without it leading anywhere, that's a huge help. If you go, it turns out if you go on a vacation alone, and I don't mean a family trip, because that's not a vacation, but if you go on a vacation alone once a year for like five to seven days, that will do more for your relationship than a weekly date night. Five genuine expressions of appreciation a day, even for things they're supposed to be doing or is their role in the relationship trains the lens that you're looking at them through away from. Because you're going to find evidence for whatever you're thinking. If you think he's selfish, you will find evidence. Right? So when you start to look for things to appreciate, that trains your lens toward appreciation and your expression expressing that to them, and then that models for them to express it back to you. If you give each other a 30 second hug. I do this with my husband every morning. We've been together 25 years. Hug heart to heart and just send love from your heart into theirs for 30 seconds. It's a long time. And say in your mind, I choose you, or out loud, I choose you today. Because when you're in choice in the relationship, you're out of that codependence. Right? You can get your needs met. And a 10 second kiss several times a day. These are just like what I was saying about the care and feeding of your connection.
- [54:10]
Kate Hudson
Yeah. Dr. Gottman was our therap, was my therapist.
- [54:14]
Dr. Laura Berman
Ah, so you're, you're golden.
- [54:16]
Kate Hudson
He had the six second kiss, you know, and all of his cards and the things that he does. He was, he was such a wonderful person to learn from.
- [54:26]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah, he's amazing.
- [54:27]
Oliver Hudson
Well, I've got, I've got one more to add to your list. Okay. It's called Sexual Jenga.
- [54:32]
Dr. Laura Berman
Okay. Let's see. Ooh.
- [54:34]
Oliver Hudson
Because what I did with my wife years and years and years ago, it actually started on a honeymoon. We turn board games. We did Yahtzee. But Jenga's a Good one. We did Yahtzee. You turn it into a sexual foreplay game. And so sexual Jenga, you write on the blocks what you want done to you or what you want to do to your partner. And you be very specific about it. Like 1 second or like 30 second, like hand job or whatever it is. And then you pull it out, but then you have to stop. So it builds up this intensity to where then eventually you just can't take it.
- [55:06]
Kate Hudson
But what happens if the Jenga falls?
- [55:09]
Oliver Hudson
Then you divorce, it's over.
- [55:12]
Kate Hudson
You're like, okay, I'm gonna.
- [55:14]
Oliver Hudson
Or Yahtzee. Instead of doing the Full House or the Three of a Kind, you write in what you want have done to yourself.
- [55:20]
Dr. Laura Berman
Or you could do Twister, right?
- [55:21]
Oliver Hudson
Or Twister. Yeah, it's fun. Or game.
- [55:24]
Kate Hudson
Laura, will you come back and talk to me, us again?
- [55:27]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah, I would love to.
- [55:28]
Kate Hudson
And then will you just give us before we leave, you know, why did you write Sex Magic? Where did this come from? Why another book? You know what, like, what moved you to do it? And. And what do you want? What, what person? Like, what are they going to get from this book that you hope that they get from this book?
- [55:44]
Dr. Laura Berman
It's really about how to create that intense excitement and long term or any relationship. It's for singles and people in relationship. But I wrote it because people are looking for that dopamine hit. They're looking, they're looking in all the wrong places for excited intensity, which is that erotic excitement and feeling. And I could give, you know, I've done all the books giving you all the tips, tools, role plays and everything. And you. That's fine. And I love that. This is making sex into. Into a sacred energy exchange. It's teaching you how to access the energy of your sexuality. So it's not just located in your genital, but you can run it through your body, you can circle it between you. It teaches you to release the inhibitions that are in the way and really connect on a deeper, profound level emotionally, but especially sensually and sexually. And that's really what I've been teaching my couples for years. But it finally dawned on me like, oh, this is what people are looking for when they keep asking me, how do you spice it up? How do you spice it up? They're looking for intense excitement. They're looking for that feeling. So that's what I'm teaching you to do in sex magic. And it uses all those ancient techniques. It's basically making modern and accessible Tantra, Kundalini, Kama Sutra, Taoism they knew how to get down. They knew how to create these feelings. And it even teaches you how to use sexual energy to manifest.
- [57:10]
Kate Hudson
And I do that a lot. Just hang.
- [57:11]
Dr. Laura Berman
Yeah, I think. I think you're a sex magician, Kate. I think.
- [57:16]
Oliver Hudson
Oh, Jesus.
- [57:17]
Kate Hudson
You heard it here, everybody.
- [57:21]
Dr. Laura Berman
One more.
- [57:21]
Oliver Hudson
I gotta. Just one more thing. I think you should do a pamphlet next. Just called the Quickie and it's just like a three page pamphlet.
- [57:27]
Kate Hudson
Oh, I love a quickie. Yeah, Yeah, a pamphlet. Oh, thank you so much. This was so fun. Seriously, we could talk about this forever.
- [57:39]
Oliver Hudson
I know.
- [57:39]
Dr. Laura Berman
It was great being with you guys.
- [57:42]
Kate Hudson
All right, well, we'll see you again.
- [57:43]
Oliver Hudson
See you soon.
- [57:44]
Dr. Laura Berman
Okay.
- [57:46]
Kate Hudson
I love that. Ollie. I'm a sex magician.
- [57:50]
Oliver Hudson
No, you're not.
- [57:51]
Kate Hudson
I am. I am, actually. And you know what?
- [57:54]
Dr. Laura Berman
Even.
- [57:55]
Kate Hudson
Even if I wasn't, I am now. Even if I wasn't, it is now how I'm gonna define a huge part of it.
- [58:05]
Oliver Hudson
Okay, fine, I'll give you that then. I'm self proclaimed a sexual guru.
- [58:12]
Kate Hudson
Oh, God, that was so fun. Isn't it amazing? I. I really do find it interesting how people don't talk about sex enough, you know, And I love talking about it. Well, everybody does.
- [58:23]
Oliver Hudson
Well, it's fascinating. Not just talking about like the in and the at, the in and out of it all. There's just the deeper aspects of sex and sexuality and it's just so important. And what dry. It drives us.
- [58:35]
Kate Hudson
Yeah, it's a huge energy for.
- [58:37]
Oliver Hudson
Huge energy for.
- [58:38]
Kate Hudson
Yeah, I mean, it's so much of it. When she talks about manifest. Manifest, like it's actually like a real thing where it's like at the height of orgasm. What you're putting out is actually one of the great manifesting tools. I'm sure she talks about it in.
- [58:52]
Oliver Hudson
In, I guess in the book, maybe for a woman, for a man, all that he puts out is like a couple millimeters of goo. Ew.
- [59:00]
Kate Hudson
Now I don't want to talk to you about this anymore. All right, well, I love you.
- [59:07]
Oliver Hudson
I love you.
- [59:08]
Kate Hudson
See you on the other side.
- [59:10]
Oliver Hudson
Yes.
- [59:15]
Dr. Laura Berman
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [59:17]
Kate Hudson
Guaranteed Human.