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- [00:01]
Narrator
The Flood is brought to you by the Australian War Memorial. Some stories define a nation. Others reveal what it means to be human. Through Their Eyes is a new podcast from the Australian War Memorial that uncovers powerful human stories, revealing war through unexpected perspectives and immersive storytelling. Through Their Eyes, we'll be live soon, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:31]
Geordie Bunting
I rang my wife and said, we've had a bit of an issue. Can you come and pick me up and pick up some cigarettes? Mine got wet.
- [00:48]
Cameron Stewart
I'm Cameron Stewart and this is the fourth and final episode of the Flood. The Fallout Deshainer was back on the surface, but Peter Scott and his crew were still a long way from dry land.
- [01:03]
Peter Scott
We didn't know the state of our hydraulic systems, electrical systems. We didn't know how much water we had on the boat. We didn't know what casualties we'd suffered and therefore, you know, what expertise we'd lost and so on. We didn't know probably at that point whether there'd been other issues, like, you know, had fire started or whatever. So once we were on the roof, a really serious damage control battle kind of began.
- [01:29]
Geordie Bunting
It was a long transit back. I can remember that. Cause we were severely speed restricted because of the damage that had been done to the main motor cooling gear. There was a lot of work going on to try and get systems back up to get us home safe, and that was obviously carried out by that time. Coming back in was, I guess, just a time to reflect and come to grips with what had just happened.
- [01:56]
Cameron Stewart
Geordie Bunting had more to reflect on than most. He lost a round of rock paper scissors, nearly drowned in the lower motor room and soaked his cigarettes. For the next six hours, the submarine chugged back to the naval base HMAS Stirling near Perth. Top brass, led by Commodore Mike Diggs, commander of the Australian Submarine Group, had scrambled an emergency response.
- [02:19]
Mike Deeks
I can recall it very clearly. We set the wheels in motion to provide the support for the submarine. So that included some medical support, HR support, psychological people on standby, as well as engineering support. Obviously, we needed to find out what the problem was and make sure the submarine was safe.
- [02:38]
Peter Scott
It was a tremendous relief to get back alongside and great to see a guy like Mike Deeks, who I've known from my very first days in the navy. Yeah, so it was just really good to see your boss there and know that you'd sort of got yourself through that.
- [03:00]
Mike Deeks
I was on the wharf when Deschaneau arrived back alongside, and I was the first person that people Peter Scott spoke to when he came off the submarine on arrival. My emotions were a degree of thankfulness and relief, but also of pride. Peter is a very matter of fact sort of person and a very calm person and that shone through on that occasion. And he probably without any intention, underplayed the seriousness of the event. As I got more information about it, I realized exactly how serious it was.
- [03:36]
Cameron Stewart
The Navy had to urgently find out what went wrong with Ducheno and ensure the problem didn't extend to the other Collins class submarines. It immediately recalled all submarines to port and reduced the deep diving depth, therefore reducing the pressure on the seawater hoses until the accident could be investigated.
- [03:53]
Peter Scott
In the immediate aftermath, they just recalled the submarines because we didn't understand what had happened, we didn't know what risk the other boats might have been exposed to and so on. It was probably within a week that they were released to sail again when and we understood the sort of root cause of the problem.
- [04:10]
Cameron Stewart
Investigators put the seawater hoses through rigorous pressure tests much more intense than the Collins submarine's deep diving depth, but couldn't find any fault to explain. The flood months dragged into several years with no answers and the Navy had no choice but to maintain a reduced deep diving depth for many years. This curtailed their potency because submarines are easier to detect and and have more limited options for attack if they are subject to depth restrictions. Since World War I, submarines have been a critical part of warfare with their ability to sneak up on hostile forces and destroy them. In World War II, U boat fleets of the Germans and the Allies played a critical role in the war's outcome.
- [04:51]
Geordie Bunting
The commander in chief of the Pacific
- [04:53]
Cameron Stewart
Fleet, Admiral Nimitz, issued a brief communique
- [04:55]
Peter Scott
from Pearl harbor yesterday afternoon announcing the
- [04:58]
Cameron Stewart
defeat of a large and formidable Japanese invasion fleet. Today there are two types of attack submarines which hunt and destroy enemy submarines and surface ships, gather intelligence and launch tactical cruise missiles. Then there are the larger ballistic missile submarines operated by nuclear weapons states. These sophisticated submarines are armed with nuclear weapons and roam the world's oceans 247 creating a permanent nuclear deterrent which allows the nation to hit back through these submarines if, if it's ever subjected to a nuclear attack. The Collins class submarines which Australia operates are attack submarines. As an island nation, they are considered our most formidable defence capability. Here's Peter Scott.
- [05:45]
Peter Scott
The failure was basically a flexible hose. One of the things about submarines is you want to be out there and you want to be as quiet as you possibly can. You do need to operate a lot of machinery on board, so you want to isolate that machinery from the hull so that the noise from the machinery doesn't vibrate out into the ocean. One of the ways that we do that is rather than connecting hard pipes from the system to the hull, there's pressure rated flexible hoses and they just create that sort of acoustic barrier between the machinery and the hull. So these are tested to all sorts of pressures and there are hundreds of them on board the submarines. This one failed and eventually the investigations found that it was a manufacturing defect.
- [06:32]
Cameron Stewart
Mike Deeks again, the nature of the
- [06:34]
Mike Deeks
pressure on those hoses was somewhat different to what they were designed for, if I recall correctly. In other words, the constant pressure versus pulse pressures may have caused the hose to fail because it hadn't been properly designed for the situation it found itself in.
- [06:51]
Cameron Stewart
The other dilemma was what to tell the media.
- [06:54]
Mike Deeks
The Collins class had had a lot of bad press. We didn't need any more, but we needed to really draw out the positives out of this situation.
- [07:04]
Peter Scott
The Navy probably didn't have a whole lot of tolerance for the media at that time and to be honest, there wasn't much more to be said. So I think within probably a week or two, the Navy probably shut down on it again and said, we've told you what we can tell you, that's all there is to it.
- [07:18]
Cameron Stewart
Do you think they played it down to a degree because of the circumstance?
- [07:26]
Peter Scott
So the Navy would not have played it up because there's nothing to be gained by playing it up. My sense is they would have played it with a pretty straight bat.
- [07:42]
Cameron Stewart
The Navy did not completely cover up the flood on Deschano, but it did all that it could to ensure that the real story was not told. Four days after the flood, the Navy stated merely that a number of tons of water had entered the submarine after a hose failed. But it made no mention of deep diving depth, a critical factor, and it did not say how close the submarine came to being lost. As a result, within a 24 hour news cycle, the the story had all but vanished. Meanwhile, the Navy had the crew's welfare to think of.
- [08:16]
Mike Deeks
You know, you hear very often nowadays about ptsd, well, that was certainly we were aware of that at those times and we needed to look after the crew both immediately after the incident itself, but then follow up in the weeks and months to come. Sometimes these things take a while to reveal themselves.
- [08:32]
Geordie Bunting
Geordie Bunting Again, there was advice and psychology advice that was offered, but I was a bloke and we don't do that, we just get on with it. Part of me says, had I have taken those opportunities up, then, it might have changed things. But down the track, I did seek help.
- [08:56]
Peter Scott
I was broken and it worked organisationally. I knew that different people would need different kinds of support, you know, depending on what their experience had been on the day. I think we probably are everyone to sit down with a psychologist at some stage through those next several weeks. There was kind of barely a moment when some of that wasn't playing out in my head. And I think that's just, you know, your body and your brain still trying to comprehend what's happened and place it somewhere. I know that certainly for the first couple of weeks afterwards, I'd go to bed at night and just find myself just lying as still and quiet as I could while I was sort of reliving some of this stuff. And I was kind of most determined not to, you know, Sean. And my wife, she's. She's been around submarines as long as I have, right. So. But what I didn't want to do was sort of portray to her the full sense of the trauma that we'd been through, because I knew we had to go back to sea and I didn't want to add to, you know, her concern while we were away for another three months. Totally out of contact, as you are for weeks and weeks on end.
- [10:25]
Cameron Stewart
To the amazement of the Navy's top brass, despite the traumatic experience of the Deschesaus crew, the every one of them reported back for duty just two weeks after the flood to go back to sea.
- [10:36]
Geordie Bunting
We were part of a crew that wanted to get back to doing what we were doing. If anything, it brought the crew together.
- [10:44]
Peter Scott
Trauma aside, they actually came away with a much renewed and maybe even reinvigorated sense of confidence in themselves. What they were able to do or their training had given them on the day and in their boat. To a degree, it was what I expected, But I know how hard it was to get my own ass back on that submarine, so I don't imagine it was any easier for the others. So, you know, a lot of. A lot of respect for those people.
- [11:29]
Cameron Stewart
For some crew members, like Geordie Bunting, the trauma of the flood had the delayed impact. It created demons which came back to haunt them months and even years later. Do you think about it much?
- [11:44]
Geordie Bunting
Oh, it's in your mind every day.
- [11:46]
Cameron Stewart
Every day, yeah.
- [11:48]
Geordie Bunting
You know, my wife sleeps beside me at night and knows I have nightmares most nights about it. But, you know, what do you do? You either get on the horse and get going or you let it ruin your life. And it certainly changed my life, but it's not going to own me. It changed my life forever in the blink of an eye. And not only for me, I guess for the whole crew. We'd been through an experience which was near death. My appreciation of people has certainly changed. And being very conscious of those around you, that if you treat them with respect, they may well save your life and that's dear to me. I carry that ethos through my civilian life. Now in the second career that I've got, very, very risk adverse now, I don't take risks. A lot more calculating. It certainly led to, you know, mental health issues. I don't hide behind that. But, you know, look, the incident made me the person that I am today. Would I do it again? Yeah, probably.
- [13:02]
Cameron Stewart
John Ryan was the chief engineer. All the crew John that I have spoken to describe it as a terrifying experience. On a scale of 1 to 10, where would you rank it?
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John Ryan
10 and a half.
- [13:20]
Peter Scott
Why?
- [13:21]
John Ryan
It's pretty much as close as you ever want to come to death.
- [13:27]
Cameron Stewart
Melanie Elton was a sonar operator.
- [13:31]
Melanie Elton
I've had definitely a lifelong effect, definitely. Anxiety is probably my worst as I don't have any confidence in myself. I don't want any jobs or responsibility. I seem to be steering away from them now. The job changed. I'm going to something that's even less stressful.
- [13:55]
Narrator
The Flood is brought to you by the Australian War Memorial. What does war look like through the eyes of the people who lived it? Through Their Eyes is a new podcast from the Australian War Memorial that uncovers deeply human stories drawn from the AWM's vast collections, galleries and expert insights. Through unexpected perspectives and immersive storytelling, each episode brings history to life in a way that's personal, moving and relevant today. Discover the stories behind our history. Listen to Through Their Eyes soon, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [14:34]
Cameron Stewart
Two years after the flood, in 2005, I was having a beer with a defence contact when he whispered, have you heard the rumour that the Navy almost lost a submarine a few years ago? I wondered if he was referring to the small story about the broken hose in the Deschano two years earlier. As luck would have it, I still had the contact details for many of the Dechesno crew. Because I'd spent 48 hours on board that same submarine just months before the incident, I avoided the giant defence media machine which I knew would try to shut down the story. So I directly contacted many of the crew members I had sailed with. To my surprise, most of them were willing to brave the wrath of Defence PR to tell me their story. But I didn't get the one interview I needed. Until now.
- [15:20]
Peter Scott
G', day, Cameron. I'm Commodore Peter Scott, retired from full time service in the Royal Australian Navy.
- [15:26]
Cameron Stewart
After commanding the Duchaino, Scott was promoted to Commodore and became Commander of the Australian Submarine Group before serving in Iraq, the Persian Gulf and Afghanistan. Even in 2023, when Scott wrote a memoir called Running Deep, he only touched lightly on the flood, devoting six pages out of 265 to that dramatic day. But in his foreword to Scott's memoir, the then Governor General David Hurley did not ignore those six pages. Hurley described the Flood as an extraordinary story of terror, bravery, leadership and team response during a major life threatening emergency at sea. So in early 2026, I asked Peter Scott to finally give me the interview I'd sought for 21 years.
- [16:14]
Peter Scott
When we sit here like this and you ask me questions about it, it's pretty bloody hard sometimes to go back to it. But I think it's had a different impact at different times. I think fundamentally, professionally, it's been a solid and positive impact for the crew. It really was a binding, solidifying piece of sort of professional justification and experience and they went on to do remarkable work. For myself, I'd say it was, it would be present more often than it needed to be, but of course it sits alongside a number of other, you know, life threatening situations that I've been through in a 34 year service career which included time in Iraq and Afghanistan. There were a couple of times when I went off to seek the support of psychologists, once over a period immediately before I was promoted to Commodore when I was going to be head of the submarine arm. And I just wanted to sort of get a level on some of the stress and anxiety that I was, I was living with. I was worried that some of this stuff might come back and bite me on the bum down track.
- [17:31]
Cameron Stewart
Both Peter Scott and former submarine commander Mike Dix are adamant that the flood is more of a good news story than bad.
- [17:39]
Mike Deeks
It was quite a remarkable set of circumstances. I've got no doubt that at the time of the incident there were some people that were very shaken up by it. But being a submariner operating in the environment, which we do, comes with some inherent risks, but it was a great example of the camaraderie and the sense of even though you're in a very difficult situation, that they are actually in control of that situation. And the things that they did at the time were entirely appropriate to bring their submarines safely to the surface.
- [18:10]
Cameron Stewart
The Collins class submarines have certainly been tested, but as they approach the end of their operational lives, the boats have been a success.
- [18:18]
Mike Deeks
They've done some outstanding work in support of government objectives and Australians should be very, very proud of their service.
- [18:26]
Cameron Stewart
The Collins boats are 30 years old and now they need significant taxpayer investment to keep going until Australia gets its new boats. Under the Australia America, Britain Aukus deal,
- [18:37]
John Ryan
Australia, the US and the UK will
- [18:40]
Cameron Stewart
work together to develop unmanned undersea vehicles as part of the trilateral Aukus agreement. First we'll get nuclear powered Virginia class submarines from America. Then together with Britain we'll build and sustain our own nuclear powered boats, the Aukus class.
- [18:56]
Mike Deeks
The US doesn't usually share this type of technology with its allies, so the fact that Australia is getting it is a massive deal.
- [19:03]
Cameron Stewart
We'll need to grow the workforce of submariners from around 850 today to more than 3,000 in the next 20 years. So can the Collins boats keep us going in the meantime? The government scaling back its spending on Collins sustainment and maintenance, prompting real fears will end up with a capability gap that is no effective submarine fleet at all for a period of time. Mike Deeks says stories like that of the flood on the Deschaneau, no matter how terrifying, shouldn't deter would be submariners from what he says is an exciting life.
- [19:38]
Mike Deeks
If I was a kid in high school now I'd be getting through my HSC exams my year 12 and then looking to join the Navy and become a submariner because I think it would be a really exciting career. I think it is interesting times to have another look at the to Shaino and what happened back then. But she's still sailing. The submariners are still doing their work, largely unsung, but playing a very important role in the defence of Australia.
- [20:06]
Peter Scott
The submarine arm has been for a very long time and will remain the nation's principal strategic deterrent. It's an absolutely critical mass naval capability, critical to the nation's security and prosperity. The offensive and deterrent capability and capacity of the submarines we have today and the submarines that we will have in the future is remarkable. It is what demands the respect of regional navies and that's where the real value of our submarines lies. So if I had the chance to be a part of that again, no doubt I'd absolutely be stepping forward again.
- [21:00]
Cameron Stewart
Despite their traumatic experience, the Ducheno crew say they would do it all again. Here's John Ryan.
- [21:06]
John Ryan
I mean, the boat did what it was supposed to do. The people did what they were supposed to do. I mean, a submarine is just a lump of steel, but the people in it and the systems that run it, perfect. The Collins got a bad rap back in the day by a lot of the media. I think a lot of it was unfounded, or at least dramatised. Living it and seeing what was reported on were two completely different things. So, yeah, if someone's thinking about it, I would definitely give it a go. Great life, great experience, great training, see the world.
- [21:47]
Cameron Stewart
Fantastic.
- [21:47]
John Ryan
They should put me on a poster.
- [21:50]
Cameron Stewart
You get paid for that, mate. You get paid for that. And here's Melanie Ellerton.
- [21:55]
Melanie Elton
You will never find any job with the same amount of loyalty, family, courage, adventure. Not one day's the same. The bonding of all your crew, like, it's so worth it. I was a shy girl, got picked on for having red hair at school, and then I've got up to being a leading seaman on a submarine, running a sonar watch so anyone can do it.
- [22:23]
Cameron Stewart
And Greg Sullivan, thinking about the flood every now and again, I think it
- [22:28]
John Ryan
probably affects me more if I'm telling someone a story.
- [22:32]
Cameron Stewart
Going through the events, I get a
- [22:34]
John Ryan
bit of a shiver.
- [22:35]
Cameron Stewart
But, I mean, in the end, everyone on the boat did a great job and I think that's why it all turned out in the end. I think everyone on the boat should be proud of everything that we all did on that day. In 2006, Greg Sullivan, who saved Geordie Bunting's life by lifting him out of the flooded lye motor room of the Deshaino, was quietly awarded the bravery medal by the then Governor General, Major General Michael Jeffrey, his citation reads. Mr. Sullivan was on duty in another compartment of the submarine when he heard a loud bang and ran to investigate. He found that there was a serious flood in the lower motor room and that a crew member was pinned beneath the exit ladder by the force of the flood. Despite the danger, he assisted in reaching through a small access hatch into the rapidly flooding space and pulled the shocked and disoriented crew member to safety, regardless of the risk of electrocution. Mr. Sullivan then stayed to assist in damage control operations. By his action, Mr. Sullivan displayed considerable bravery. By his Excellency's command, signed Michael Jeffrey. The crew of the Duchenno have long parted, scattered to all corners of Australia and even overseas. A few are still in the Navy, but most are out pursuing new careers or retired. Many of the crew now have adult children and even grandchildren. A new generation that came within 20 seconds of never existing. Some of the Deschaneau crew are still in touch. Those that are say that their shared experience of the flood binds them together forever. Do you think in a strange way, that terrifying experience was a bonding experience for the crew?
- [24:20]
Geordie Bunting
Oh, absolutely, yeah. They call it Band of Brothers or Band of Brothers and Sisters. They are awesome.
- [24:28]
Cameron Stewart
But for those who are on board the Dushona that day, the memory of the flood is always there in some form. Peter Scott is adamant that the survival of the submarine on that day was due to his crew rather than himself.
- [24:41]
Peter Scott
I definitely think I've had my fair share of both adventure and misadventure. I spent a lot of time in submarines. I. So I had some really difficult days, but thankfully I was trained and prepared and equipped to deal with those. And I was with the right people on those days. And they were trained and prepared and equipped to deal with those difficult days as well. And those days are memorable, but they're not the important days. The important days are the days when you're out there having a strategic effect for the nation. So I left the Navy. I spent a lot of time and did a lot of work in the months after I left that job, finding the right ways to reprocess some of those memories. And today it's a part of my life. It's an experience I went through most of the time. It doesn't occur to me.
- [25:37]
Cameron Stewart
For Geordie Bunting, whose world was turned upside down by his near death experience under Deschaneau, life still has its challenges. But he says he has no regrets about his time in the Navy.
- [25:48]
Geordie Bunting
I loved it. I was proud. I was proud to serve, I was proud to be a submariner and I wouldn't change a thing.
- [26:00]
Cameron Stewart
When he looks back on that fateful day on the Duchesneau, he says there are three people he owes his life to. The first are his two crewmates, Greg Sullivan and Michael Morris, who ran towards the flood and risked their lives to save him as he was drowning.
- [26:14]
Geordie Bunting
If I hadn't attributed them with respect, would they have come back and got me? That's a question I'll never know. I'll never know.
- [26:25]
Cameron Stewart
But there is another person he says he wants to thank again after all these years. Not just for himself, but on behalf of the 54 men and six women who made it back to Perth against the odds.
- [26:37]
Geordie Bunting
Cool, calm and calculated, Commander Scott at the time had the utmost trust in his crew. And the crew had the utmost trust in Commander Scott. He was a genuine person who was endearing to his crew. He knew what he wanted out of him and the crew weren't scared to give him what he wanted. He was just an absolute gentleman.
- [27:08]
Cameron Stewart
What do you say to him today?
- [27:10]
Geordie Bunting
Thanks for bringing us home.
- [27:19]
Narrator
This is episode four of our four part series which the Australian subscribers hear first at TheFloodPodcast.com and Apple Podcasts. If you haven't seen our beautiful documentary video or read Cameron stories, go to thefloodpodcast.com. The Flood is an audio and video investigation for the Australian by Cameron Stewart, Executive Producer Claire Harvey and editor Jasper Leake. You can watch the video right now at the Flood Podcast. Our theme is composed by Jasper Leake, cinematography is by Andy Taylor and video editing by Lachlan Clear. Additional footage was shot by Luke Geldard and Peter Aquilina. Our graphics are by Sean Callanan and animations by Frank Ling. Special thanks to Kristen Amyot, Ryan Elphin, the Australian National Maritime Museum and the Australian War Memorial. Captured Imprisoned, Determined to Survive through first hand accounts from the Australian War Memorial's archives, Through Their Eyes reveals what it meant to endure captivity, maintain hope and survive against the odds. Listen to Through Their Eyes Wherever you get your podcasts.