Ep 348. You Don't Scale Businesses, You Scale People!

Summary

Side Hustle Squad Podcast – Episode 348

Title: You Don't Scale Businesses, You Scale People!
Host: Mike Garvey
Guests: Brandon Bull, Eric
Release Date: July 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the people-centric approach to growing a business, especially for entrepreneurs balancing a side hustle in the lawn care industry while working full-time. Host Mike Garvey, alongside guests Brandon Bull and Eric, explore the fundamental truth that business scalability hinges on empowering and developing your team—not just on systems, marketing, or cash flow. The discussion draws on real-world experiences in hiring, delegation, leadership, and raising team standards, offering actionable insights for business owners at any stage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Journey from Solo Operator to Team Builder

• Eric’s First Hire: The Apprentice Story

  • Eric recounts reaching capacity with his aquarium business, leading him to hire his first apprentice simply to manage workload.
    • “I was maxed out. I was working a lot of hours…So I hired an apprentice. It was just someone I knew…help me get out of jobs faster.” [01:00–01:36]
  • The trust grew quickly; soon the apprentice was independently handling less critical jobs, freeing Eric to tackle more complex tasks.

• Scaling Through Strategic Hires

  • As Eric hit new personal limits (administration, scheduling, construction), he hired to fill each bottleneck.
    • "Wherever I have a deficiency or overburden of work, I'm always hiring to fill that gap." [04:17]
  • Each hire corresponded to a pain point, following a model of addressing immediate business constraints.

2. The Importance of Delegation and Empowerment

• Discovering Gaps and Delegating for Growth

  • Delegating tasks like bookkeeping revealed overlooked issues (e.g., a client not paying for 9 months), emphasizing the dire need for support in non-core areas.
    • “You know, they haven't paid you in nine months. I was like, what, are you kidding me?” [03:56]

• Empowering Team to Sell and Serve

  • Eric transitioned from being the exclusive sales contact to empowering ten team members to handle sales/service conversations on the spot.
    • “I've empowered my guys to service our clients at a higher level and be able to sell the product. It doesn't have to come through me…customers are thanking me.” [08:40–08:57]
  • This shift increased service speed, freed Eric’s time, and directly benefited the team financially through commissions:
    • “If they sell a UV—let’s just say it’s a thousand dollars to sell the UV to Mrs. Johnson—and I reward them with money, they're excited to take care of that customer at a deeper level.” [09:09]

3. Breaking the Bottleneck: Why Owners Get Stuck

• Owner as the Bottleneck

  • Many business owners believe no one can match their standards, creating a self-sustaining bottleneck.
    • “No one can do it as good as me. No one can talk to the clients like I can...and then that becomes the bottleneck that's really hard to overcome.” [10:25–11:23]

• Personality & Ego Factors

  • The discussion aligns this tendency with personality types, noting that self-critical owners can be over-critical of others, cementing their role as the chokepoint.
    • “Since they're so hard on themselves, they, by default, can be hard on other people.” [10:45]

4. Accountability, Standards, and Team Culture

• Daily Team Meetings and Celebration of Wins

  • Eric implements daily brief Zoom meetings before business hours to check in, share wins, review departments’ metrics, and pump up the team’s energy with music.
    • “We do 8:45. Our retail center opens at 9am…before it kicks off, 15 minutes, in and out… I'll put on some music that gets you jacked.” [11:39–13:05]
    • Example: “On Monday, I put on Kickstart My Heart from Motley Crue.” [13:05]
  • Meetings include motivational quotes and quick training, fostering accountability and camaraderie.

• Raising Standards and the Fallout

  • Raising expectations on the team (SOPs, grading on standards, etc.) led to long-time employees self-selecting out or being let go.
    • “When you raise your standards, someone's going to quit and you will have to fire someone…within three weeks someone quits. And within six weeks I fired someone. All based on standards of excellence.” [29:05]
  • The aftermath: The rest of the team rises to the new bar, reinvigorated and more committed.

5. The Hiring Process: Gut Instincts, Systems, and Lessons Learned

• Gut-Driven vs. Structured Hiring

  • Early hires were based on feel, but over time Eric’s business implemented a three-step process:
    1. Cultural fit
    2. Technical ability
    3. Values alignment
    • “First one's just about...culturally, are they gonna align with us? ...Second one's technical...The third one's values.” [26:05]

• Preferences: Moldable Over Experienced

  • Both Eric and Brandon agree: They prefer hiring teachable, motivated people over those with lots of but possibly problematic experience.
    • “I’d rather take somebody that I can train how we want it to be done...I've had more success that way than hiring with experience.” [27:31]

• Letting Go and Replacing Key Staff

  • Letting go of integral but non-adaptive employees ended up growing the company culture and creating space for stronger alignment.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Eric (on scaling):
  “You don’t scale businesses, you scale people.” [17:23]

• Eric (on standards):
  “Raise your standards—someone’s going to quit, and you will have to fire someone. Just so…I don't care how long you've been doing this, that’s going to happen.” [29:05]

• Brandon (on aligning people with strengths):
  “I literally love putting people in places—even in my businesses or work…let them run with it. I want smart people around me.” [18:52]

• Eric (on team engagement):
  “My team is excited to come to work…I know that from the bottom of my heart…It separates our company from my competitors.” [15:41]

• Eric (on the impact of owner mindset):
  “If you stop scaling, you’ll lose the people. You have to start over.” [31:38]

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Important Timestamps

• [01:00] – Eric’s story of hiring his first apprentice.
• [03:00–04:10] – Bookkeeping nightmare and discovering client non-payment.
• [07:01–08:57] – Shifting sales responsibility from owner to team, empowering employees.
• [10:25–11:23] – Why business owners bottleneck their own growth.
• [11:39–14:52] – 15-minute team meetings and their cultural impact.
• [15:41] – How team excitement and buy-in separates a company.
• [17:23] – The key theme: "You don’t scale businesses, you scale people."
• [25:12–27:31] – Structured hiring and choosing moldable over experienced candidates.
• [29:05] – The cost and benefit of raising standards.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Sustainable growth always comes down to investing in and scaling your people—not just processes or revenue.
• Delegate intentionally and trust your team; empowering employees can exponentially improve customer experience and business outcomes.
• Regular communication, recognition, and culture-building meetings engage and motivate teams far beyond compensation alone.
• Don’t be afraid to set (and uphold) higher standards, even at the risk of losing longtime team members—it’s essential for progress.
• Structured, values- and culture-focused hiring can save countless hours of frustration and turnover.
• As your business grows, your own role must evolve—leadership is about creating other leaders, not doing it all yourself.

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The episode brims with authenticity, humor, and practical wisdom, offering a blueprint for both new and established entrepreneurs: scaling your business starts and ends with scaling your people.

Transcript

[Mike Garvey]

Are you ready to kick back and get inspired? Grab your favorite drink, pop the top and join the side Hustle Squad with Mike Garvey. This podcast is the perfect resource for anyone who's already started their side hustle or is just considering taking the lead. With in depth interviews featuring guests from the green industry and beyond, you'll gain valuable insights and learn what it takes to succeed in running a business while juggling a full time career. From personal stories to practical tips, the soc side Hustle Squad podcast has everything you need to turn your passion into a thriving business. Now, here's your side Hustle Squad host, Mike Garvey.

[Brandon Bull]

So do you remember hiring like your first employee?

[Eric]

I do.

[Brandon Bull]

What was that like?

[Eric]

It was, it was interesting because I hired my first employee. He was just an apprentice. I was kind of maxed out. I was mainly doing aquariums, doctors and lawyers offices. I'll go around and do all this stuff and I was just maxed out. I was working a lot of hours and I didn't have time to do like, sort of like heavier service calls or work orders, like change out complete filters. You know, like normally you'd go in and change the decorations, clean the glass, do the stuff. And then if I needed some major work underneath the tank or the aquarium, you know, I'd be like, oh, that's going to take two hours. I can't do it today. I got seven more aquariums to clean.

[Brandon Bull]

Wow.

[Eric]

So I was like, I hired an apprentice. It was just someone I knew. It was like a friend's son kind of deal. And I was like, hey, you want to work a couple days a week? And then I just used them to help me get in front of the day, get out of jobs faster. So then I'd have a Friday clear and I'd do some work. And then it was actually really cool because it happened fairly quick to where I was just like, you could go do these aquariums by yourself. These are the easy ones. And they're, they weren't super high end. He could really screw up and wouldn't hurt me that bad.

[Brandon Bull]

You could fall over. Yeah.

[Eric]

And, and then I have a whole day to myself to go and do these repairs and stuff. And so it just, it kind of just kept snowballing from there. It was actually really cool.

[Brandon Bull]

So then from there, I mean, you have how many employees?

[Eric]

15.

[Brandon Bull]

15?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

So it's kind of followed that. Did it follow that model? Like, okay, foundationally? Yeah, foundational. Okay. I'm maxed out at admin. Okay. I need to, I'M maxed out at scheduling. Okay.

[Eric]

Yep.

[Brandon Bull]

I'm maxed out at construction. I need, like.

[Eric]

You want, like, hat. You're gonna love this. So I was Mac. Then I maxed out with him. And then. Because then I would have to come home and do the building and.

[Mike Garvey]

Right.

[Eric]

And I had to go to the mailbox, and. And the checks would come in. I have to go walk, bank and do this.

[Brandon Bull]

Wait in the line.

[Eric]

Yeah. And everything was receipts, and just. I had boxes of receipts. And so I remember I was maxed out with, like, that now. And I was like, I. I don't. I can't go home and do books anymore. I can't go to the bank. I just. I can't. I hired this girl, and we met her through our pet shop, and she was just going to work four hours a day. I'm like, that's perfect. I probably couldn't afford.

[Brandon Bull]

I don't want to get paid for eight. Yeah.

[Eric]

And so she starts going through my boxes, receipts, and like that. It was terrible, man. And then I'm like, hey, she could see the board, like, we're gonna go see the Johnson residence or whatever. And she's like. She's like, started to do the money and the books and the paychecks, and. And then she's like, you're going to the Johnsons? I said, yeah. She's like, you know, they haven't paid you in nine months. And I was like, what, Are you kidding me? She's like, I didn't know. You have not. They have not paid you in nine months. I'm like, that. Why is she always so happy when I show up?

[Brandon Bull]

Kathy?

[Eric]

I. Dude, I literally. I show up to there, and they're like, oh, hi, Eric. You know, they're all like, you want to.

[Brandon Bull]

He doesn't know. He's too maxed out. He doesn't even know.

[Eric]

He's so nice. He's been taking care of my aquarium for free for nine months. I love him. Oh, my God. So, like, that, You. It's just. It. It's incredible where you're behind, missing, and things are falling through the cracks. So that was my third hire, but now I think it's been cool. Cause I. I feel like wherever I have a deficiency or overburden of work, I'm always hiring to fill that gap. Right?

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah. You always have to be looking for the next. You know, not necessarily have, like, people always right there. Like, I'm going to hire somebody tomorrow, but, like, all right, what's my next steps? Where. Where Am I going to need to be in six months, a year, five years?

[Eric]

Yeah. I'm starting to look at. I'm starting to have better forecasting things of that nature, you know. And I'm to a point right now exactly two day in the business right now. I just hired 15. That includes me. 15 on staff. That includes me. And I hire one more August 1st. And now I'm actually, I'm actually a little nervous. Like wow, I really have to start pulling levers on marketing. The phones definitely have to ring more. It's like I have to move a part of the business that I haven't had to move. It just happens naturally. The phones ring, we get jobs. But now it's like hey, I need to really put the foot on the gas in certain parts of the business.

[Brandon Bull]

Question was, would part of a hire ever be like a straight straight like sales?

[Eric]

Yes.

[Brandon Bull]

Besides you like yes. Yeah. Not you're not it anymore. It's like hey, you're just going tracking leads, generating leads and, and just like meeting with the customers and doing like all that.

[Eric]

I don't remember the number, but there's a number that you'll hit of employees. Like when you hit a certain number of employees and if you have your revenue per employee working well, there's a time where you hit a certain number. You have someone who only thing they do all day long is to to track your metrics. How many calls when I came in, how many calls went out, how many quotes came in or approved, how many quotes went out. Like that's all they do all day is just like this metrics the numbers in their brain, bro. Some people love that. I wouldn't but no, but that would

[Brandon Bull]

that be a part of almost your marketing having like that.

[Eric]

It's just the data they just, they give you.

[Brandon Bull]

No, no. I'm saying that hiring that salesperson like you say hey I better get the phone to start ringing is part of that maybe like having having somebody generate those that hire being generating the leads.

[Eric]

No. Well, where I'm at currently right now I am teaching sales or communications to my team. And so 10 of my people right now can actually sell something. Where in all the past it's like hey Eric, you know they, they'd go do their jobs and they go hey Eric, Mrs. Johnson needs a U. I'm like okay, cool. Different Mrs. Johnson.

[Brandon Bull]

She's got to pay up first.

[Eric]

So then I got to call Mrs. Johnson and then I got to tell her about the UV and I got to tell her what the quote the Price is, you know, like. And so now, now it's been really empowering to just go like, dude, you guys. You guys know what UVs cost? You know how to install them? How long is it going to take? Is it an easy UV stall or is a hard one? Is that electricity close by? Like, you guys know how to do all that stuff? So what I've spent since January, so March, like, in that realm, hit this really hard. My whole team is prepared to be able to do those things, and I would just, like, oversee them a little bit. So clearly that's my best move now. So my. All. My whole team, it actually serves my customers better. You know, sales is such a sticky, gross word. Like, oh, you made all your guys salespeople? Like, no, I made them service people.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah.

[Eric]

You know, because if my client needs a UV and it takes me a week to even get to them, and then I got to talk to them, and then their calendar doesn't work out, and then it's been a month, and then, like, they just need the product for their pond to get better.

[Brandon Bull]

Right. Where they could. Where the call could come in at 9am By 10am they have the quote back, it's already done, and then it's approved and it's ordered.

[Eric]

It's gone to my scheduler, and the scheduler's putting it on the board. And, like, so I've empowered my guys to service our clients at a higher level and be able to sell the product. It doesn't have to come through me. So that's already in motion. It's working out brilliantly. My customers are happy, my customers are thanking me.

[Brandon Bull]

And it frees you up to do.

[Eric]

Frees me up to do more stuff. And then, you know, I empower my team to get a commission off of it. Like, hey, you sold it. I didn't have to touch it. Let me just pay you some.

[Brandon Bull]

I don't think about it.

[Eric]

Yeah. And then they're living a better life. And so gas is $8 a gallon out there. Like, they need. They. They're motivated to sell things. Or I should say they're motivated to serve their people at a higher level. Because put it this way, if. If they sell a uv, let's just say it's a thousand dollars. Because sometimes it is. Yeah, let's just say it's a thousand dollars to sell the UV to Mrs. Johnson. If my team sells that to her and serves her with that, and then I reward them with money, they're excited to take care of that customer at a deeper Level, Right?

[Brandon Bull]

Absolutely. There's a connection.

[Eric]

Yeah. So everyone does better for it. And then their kids go to dance lessons because they can afford it now. It's just a brilliant thing. So empowering those people is paramount. And for years, for years and years, I didn't have that figured out yet because I was too nervous to be able to make sure it got done right or whatever. We don't make everything perfect. Sometimes we screw something up, but we learn from it. We have a meeting about it. Hey, this is what went wrong. This is how we make it better. Let's go.

[Brandon Bull]

Why do you think so many business owners are the bottleneck of their business?

[Eric]

Well, just like, you know, we were talking about another contractor that we know that it's like no one can do it as good as me. No one can. No one can talk to the clients like I can. No one can forecast things as well. It's just, I don't know.

[Brandon Bull]

I think it's personality. I think it's ego somewhat.

[Eric]

Sure. For sure. Some personality types definitely have their more tendency, you know, like, like an enneagram one style person. They, they battle with it a lot. They're on their own personal critic. And so since they're so hard on themselves, they by default can be hard on other people. Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah. And then why did you do it like that? I would have done it like this.

[Eric]

And if the other, if the other people don't even see it because they're not, they're not there, they're not their style or maybe it seems like they don't care, then that person gets more upset and then it validates him more like no one else can do it as good as me. And then that's just. That becomes the bottleneck that it's really hard to overcome.

[Brandon Bull]

How have, how have you seen the growth of your team in the last three months?

[Eric]

It's been tremendous. And I'm going to talk about this tomorrow. We have an all team meeting. Every day I meet with my everybody in person. We do it over at Zoom.

[Brandon Bull]

Okay.

[Eric]

Because you know, I got, I got teams that start at 6.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah.

[Eric]

I got girls that start at 7, 7:30. I got my production managers in there at 6. I have, we have our ranch hands. The guy that's shoveling manure on our property right now, he's on that meeting every morning. 8:45. Okay, so we do 8:45. Our retail center opens at 9am so customers are coming in. We want to service them. So we have it at 8:45. Before, before, before it kicks off 15 minutes. 15 minutes. 15 minutes fast. In and out burn. This is not a phone call.

[Brandon Bull]

That's like, strategy, right?

[Eric]

No, it's not strategy. It's not like, hey, we need more fish bags in the fish room so we can sell fish. And rubber bands. Don't forget the rubber band. This is not this kind of con that happens. All. It's part of their job, right? The all team meeting is all about wins and each department's metrics, because every department has a metric. So, like, how many phone calls came in? How many. What's going on in the sales department? Who's. What's. How much money are we making in production today? Like, I'm gonna go deep with it tomorrow. It's gonna be cool. So it's like, hey, what. What's. How much money are we getting in today? Are we hitting our goals? What's the targets? And then someone, you know, like, so the team is locked in. They're all excited about it. And, like, minutes before, about 8, 8:35, 8:40, I'll put on some music that's, like, gets you jacked.

[Brandon Bull]

Awesome.

[Eric]

Like, I got, like, on Monday, I put on Kickstart My Heart from Motley Crue. You know, it's just, like, it's on. And, like, everyone gets on five minutes early because they want to hear the song. And then they're, like, bobbing their head and stuff like this, you know, and then I'll open the call up, and I was like, hey, I have a big win today. I want to make sure you. Everyone knows that I saw this from. From this department, and I came in and I didn't even know. And then this. All this magic happened. And then. So I'm. I might be complimenting a big win, sharing a win with one of my departments. And you see their face light up on the camera. Everyone's got their cameras on because I want to make sure everyone on my team is engaged. If they're not excited to be at work, then maybe they don't need to be there. Or if they're not excited, maybe something's wrong with their family. I want to catch them and go, hey, are you okay? What's going on? It's just like, we're really locked in with our people. So back to that point is to be able to have that level of communications and passion and sharing wins with the team members. They're so excited about it. And so I try and do really well to recognize each department, but it's also an opportunity for a department to share A win that I didn't know about and that the counting didn't know about, and then the retail department didn't know about. So they're like, hey, I had a big win yesterday. This happened and the customer came in, we solved their problem, and then we got a new Google review and everyone's like, sick, that's dope. And then so we just go through that and then we'll do a little bit of training on a little sales training, communications training, and I'll read a quote from a book, like a motivational quote about sales or about follow up or anything like that. And then we're like, have a great day, man. I'll see you tomorrow. We clock out, everyone goes, does it and everyone. Everyone's pumped about it.

[Brandon Bull]

And that's really. There's a couple layers to that. It's like people are buying in, people are being held accountable, people are empowered. Right. To do better, to grow the business, to have a win, to share. Right?

[Eric]

Yeah, it's. It's. Think about all those years in any business that you've been involved in where it's just another day, it's another dollar. I'm just another day. I got another paycheck. I get, you know, if I work late, I make a little more. If I work less, I make a little less. If I'm sick today, I lose a. Just another day, another dollar. And there's so many people that live their life that way. So many people, right?

[Brandon Bull]

Just getting to get to the weekend.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

Another day, bro.

[Eric]

My team is excited to come to work. I know that from the bottom of my heart. My team is excited and that separates our company from any of my competitors because, you know, so many people are like, oh, I gotta go work today, Monday, I gotta go. Get back to that, back at it. You know, they know our mission, they know our vision. They know we're serving our customers at the highest level and it's exciting to be around. And so that's how I see now that I've built from this foundation in the past three, four months. And it's transformed so quickly that I can see the vision for growing Helix and building Helix in that fashion and from foundationally, from the bottom up, you know, so Helix is very small. We just. We build on demand. We don't have a lot of stock, we don't have a lot of distribution. We build on demand. And so it's cool because now I can go like, okay, cool. Like, imagine you're starting over because it's. The sky's the limit.

[Brandon Bull]

You already have the playbook.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

Which is awesome.

[Eric]

Yeah. And all my, my whole team and my whole staff is versatile enough to where the office can still count the money and send up the bills and do all the paperwork and do all the accounting. They can do all that. And then our, almost everyone on my team can fabricate, so it's easy for us to, like, line things up like that. This is the, I think this is the blueprint for any business, whether it's roped or coastal or anything that you touch, it has to be built through people. So I want to talk about this for sure. What are we calling this podcast again? It's something to the effect of that

[Brandon Bull]

you don't scale businesses, you scale people.

[Eric]

Yes. So let's stick to that because, look, as a, as a business owner, our number one problem. Number one, it's not marketing, it's not cash flow. It's people. Number one problem is people. You hear it all the time. I can't find good help, so no

[Brandon Bull]

one wants to work.

[Eric]

Yeah. And I think the number one problem for an employee is money. And we can solve that if we're done. Well. And then if I can make it enjoyable to make that money, then, dude, it's a, it's a home run. So I, I really believe it's all through scaling those people 100. Yeah. And the problem is finding those people. You go totally off of gut right now, pretty much. You know, you went through your buddy Andrew and like, he's going to come in. You're gonna make him.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah, I go, I go through. I think I, I can recognize people and where I think they're, they can excel. And I do it in the state police too, in my job. I like. Yeah, hey, this guy's really good at doing this type of work. I'm gonna put him in charge of that. This guy's really good at this or driving or whatever. Like, he's gonna do this. Like, I, I, it's just something that I can, I can really sense. Sense.

[Eric]

Look, your Spidey sense.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah. This person, they get really excited about doing this type of work. Let's put them there. You know, I mean, just, hey, they're better at it than me. I love it.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

I literally love putting people in places, even in my businesses or work. And he's really good at that. I want to put him there because I don't like that at all. I don't like doing that type of work at all. But I carried it this far. But now it's like, let them run with it. I want smart people around me. I look for people that have better SAT scores than I did because mine was that high. I'm not that smart. You know what I mean?

[Eric]

It's easy to be better than me on that.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah. Like, I want smart fricking people that like, like, can advise me and be like, hey, I think, like, you should do this.

[Eric]

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[Mike Garvey]

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[Eric]

the link in the podcast description.

[Mike Garvey]

Save 50 off your registration when you

[Eric]

apply the code Side Hustle at checkout. It's interesting because as a state trooper, someone else is hiring people and they're putting them in you. And, like, it's almost like, you know, you. You have to fill these people in the roster. You can make some advice on where they go. But they've already been hired, right?

[Brandon Bull]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Especially too, you know, like, I do the. I've run the hiring, you know, for my unit. Yeah. So I've done that as well.

[Eric]

What does that look like? I mean, are you in the interview process?

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah, yeah. On a panel and. Yeah. Ranking and all that stuff. I've done it multiple times.

[Eric]

Tell me about that. That sounds amazing.

[Brandon Bull]

So in. In my unit. Well, in the state police, you. There's 120 different jobs in the state police besides being on the road. So the goal is to. For some people, they want to stay on the road, but some people want to get off. So you apply for a job, a specialist job that you want to, whether it be on the SWAT team or boats or anything. And then you. You end up having to interview with the panel of the people in that unit, and the panel changes year to year. But I did it for probably three years in a row. I was on the panel, and I got.

[Mike Garvey]

I really.

[Brandon Bull]

I got a passion for finding the right people for my unit, and I found that I like the guys that have like two to five years on. They're younger, they're hungry, they're like, they want to learn, they're teachable. So I developed a program where my unit went out to into the troops, into the. The different road stations, and anyone was interested in what we did, come learn about it. And it got us a chance to, like, get some FaceTime with you before and meet with you and before you even come to that process. And, like, it was a good turnout. We had like 50 guys or so that want and girls that wanted to, you know, had some interest in it and also weeded out people, you know, that they came and they're like, ah, they do that. I don't really want to do that. So it's a little thing that I came up with, and it worked pretty well. But I'm like, finding that. It's like finding your ideal customer. I'm like, trying to find my ideal person that I want to hire. So I take some of that stuff from the state police into the business world, into my business. Oh, I want to put that person in the right position that I think they'll excel at.

[Eric]

Were you trained on what questions to ask or you like, how did that work? Because clearly there's hr. You can't ask what's your favorite customer?

[Brandon Bull]

Correct. Yeah. I mean, there's standard sets of questions that we have to ask and stuff like that. And there's a lot of. It comes off a reputation, too. So we do a lot of, how is this. He's giving us all the right answers, but how is he really, you know what I mean? Like, can I be with this person for 18 hours? Can I?

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

Can I, you know, give them a lot of responsibility and. And no direction, you know what I mean? And they're going to be able to figure, you know, get the job done, so some of it crosses over, you know, I mean, it's like just getting those people into the right, empowering them. Like, if I get a task and I'm like, hey, hey, man. Like, I want you to do this. Like, can you run with this for me? I need, you know, recognizing a problem and giving it to somebody that wants to solve that problem for you and call me and be like, hey, boss, it's done. We're good.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

Like, that's. Thank you. Awesome. That's what I love.

[Eric]

That's cool. It's fascinating. I didn't know that you were part of that hiring process.

[Brandon Bull]

That.

[Eric]

That explains a lot of who you are and the way you think about things for Me now.

[Brandon Bull]

Okay.

[Eric]

That. That makes a lot of clarity for me. That's really, really cool.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah, that's awesome.

[Eric]

So in the past, as far as hiring goes, because it's all scalable through people, like, you run into trouble. That first apprentice, he was one of our neighbor's kids. Like, hey, he needs a job. I'm like, okay, he's hired.

[Brandon Bull]

Let's go.

[Eric]

Yeah. Can he walk?

[Brandon Bull]

All he needs to do is walk.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

You know, like, not even talk.

[Eric]

Yeah. And. And like, I hired that, like, everything happened by happenstance, right? So, like, I just think back to years ago, you might meet someone and get a feel for them. It's off your gut, you know, street smart stuff. You're like, okay, cool. Okay, hire them. And then, then you're like, if they're not working out, I don't necessarily want to fire them because then the rest of the people that I know will think that I made a bad choice. And I don't want them to think I made a bad choice. I'm a good decision maker. So I'm going to work with them a little harder. I'll train them a little bit more. And then it doesn't work and you keep them around too long.

[Brandon Bull]

It's like a shoe that doesn't fit.

[Eric]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

You know what I mean? It's something you just know that it's like, it's like, I don't know, I equate it to. It's like when you're looking for houses or something, you're like, ah, like, we could make this work. But it only has two bedrooms, not three. You know what I mean? Like, it's like you're forcing it.

[Eric]

So the interesting thing that maybe I told you about, maybe you don't know, but in the past, probably three to four months, I've interviewed close to 150, 200 people to work for us.

[Mike Garvey]

Wow.

[Eric]

We've put out these hiring, job fairs, job fairs, all this stuff. But by now it's about like that. And it's incredible how just the right questions in that environment where you and. Dude, there's been a couple people that we've had back for their second interview. We have three interview process. So we're like, hey, we like the vibe. This is cool. Set them up for the second interview. They don't show up or they show up late. You showed up late to an interview. That's. This is kind of rough, bro. I don't know. You know, you learn a lot about that.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah.

[Eric]

And. And when you running with your Gut feeling. You're like, this guy's gonna make it. I'm just gonna hire him. But when you go, hey, I need

[Brandon Bull]

the second, you give it the second and third.

[Eric]

Yeah. And the second one, you know, the first one's just about the last one's values. The second one's technical. The first one is just cultural. Like culturally, are they gonna align with us?

[Brandon Bull]

Right.

[Eric]

Where do they want to be in life? What do they want to do? Have they done any research about your company? Like, does it culture of your company? The second one is technical. Can you do this? We need someone to work on marketing. Can you create a quick ad for us?

[Brandon Bull]

Right.

[Eric]

And then they put together an ad and you're like, oh, that's not good. It's really bad. It's terrible.

[Brandon Bull]

Right where they said, oh yeah, I could do that, no problem. Off the first one. Then you're like, okay, you're hired.

[Eric]

Like, we've done that, We've done that. I've done that.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah. I'm like. And you're. I'm super pumped about this person. I'm like, oh my God, this is going to change my business. It's a total flop.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

And I found too, it's like, I rather look at, especially with fertilization, weed control stuff. It's like I was going off resumes like, oh my God, this guy has 20 years experience of at this one, at this couple companies, a couple different companies. But he's got a lot of experience. Yeah, he knows everything. And I'm like, oh, let's hire him. We hire him. And it's like, oh my God, now I know why he's not at any of those companies anymore. So I rather take somebody that I can train how we want it to be done and with no experience and mold them how we want. I've had more success that way than hiring with experience.

[Eric]

So it's interesting scaling people. Scaling people to scale your business. So, you know, when I, when I started, when I re pivoted my focus to just purely the Pondager brand earlier this year, I. I raised certain standards and a standard operating procedure. This is how we do it. If, if you don't want to do it this way, it's as simple as like, you'll bring your truck back at the end of the day with minimum half tank of fuel, period, no matter what.

[Brandon Bull]

Right?

[Eric]

I don't care no matter what. Like this is. And once a month, this truck gets washed, like just these simple little things. So I'm like, this is our new standard and you'll be graded on the standard. And a number three, like a scale from one to five. Right. Five is like, I mean a one is like you're not doing it right. Five is like you're hitting a home run. But a three is you're hitting our standard. And a lot of times if I run people through our standard, they're hitting threes because that's the standard. I don't want to be like, oh, thanks Johnny, you brought back the truck. A half tank. Let me give you a five. You don't get a five star for just doing the standard. Like, yeah, bring back full tank. And it's. And it's. And the tires are clean. They. Can you wash the tires and you ran through the car wash. That would be like over the top. That's a. Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

Right.

[Eric]

Far exceed my expectations. But our minimum standard is this. So. So like I raised the standards and you know, I was working with Brandon Dawson from Cardone Ventures and I, I gave a little resistance because he told me, he said when you raise your standards, someone's going to quit and you will have to fire someone. Just so I don't care how long you've been doing this, that's going to happen.

[Brandon Bull]

That's what's happening.

[Eric]

And I was like, oh my God, who's going to quit? Who am I going to fire? Who's going to quit? Who am I going to fire? And I'll be damned if he wasn't spot on. Exactly correct. I raised standards and like this is how it is. And you'll get written up if we don't at least stay here within three weeks someone quits. And with six weeks I fired someone. All based on standards of excellence.

[Brandon Bull]

And that's hard. That's hard to.

[Eric]

Both of them have been with me more than eight years.

[Brandon Bull]

Both of those characters, you lost both in six weeks.

[Eric]

Six weeks. And they're integral parts of the business,

[Brandon Bull]

right, that you have now. If they're in place.

[Eric]

Yeah, they're already replaced though. But so here's the thing.

[Brandon Bull]

But with the, with the standards, with the standard.

[Eric]

Yeah, but not only that, like everyone raised to the standard and a lot of the guys rate went above the standard when the person quit and when, when the other person was fired. Because they're like, oh, oh, he really means no bullshit.

[Brandon Bull]

Because I'm joking.

[Eric]

I knew so and so was not going to make it. And I knew so and so wasn't going to be. Right. Right. But you know, we'll see if he follows through with it. And Lo and behold, everything falls into place, you know, and that takes. That takes. First, it took six weeks to get things organized and then six weeks for those two guys to leave. So this. There's two. There's three months. Three months has gone by and you're working your butt off every day. And it's not changed yet. And it's not. You're not scaling up yet. But, you know, now here it is six months later, and it's like, things are pretty good.

[Brandon Bull]

I mean, the whole team sees it and the whole team is like, we're moving forward. We are at a different standard.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

We're empowered.

[Eric]

And look, my business is still very small. Like, we're still a very intimate team. Like, it's a very family oriented business. And the people that have been with me all these years, there's a new glow in their eye, dude.

[Brandon Bull]

They're rejuvenated, dude.

[Eric]

Incredible.

[Brandon Bull]

For them, it's gonna. It's a career.

[Eric]

Yeah. Well, that's the thing too is like, you better be looking at your business and trying to develop it in such a fashion to have it big enough to where these people are growing with you. And then they have to be able to continue to grow. If you just go, I'm pretty sad, bro. I'm doing pretty well. You know, I got a nice truck and I got a little vacation place. Well, I got. I don't even have to push anymore. You will lose your team.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah. Because I don't really care about them and you know, like, whatever, It's a job for them.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

Yeah. Well, this was good.

[Eric]

If you stop scaling, you'll lose the people. You have to start over. So it.

[Brandon Bull]

So what's it all for?

[Eric]

Literally have to continue to climb. Yeah. So I'm super excited about my position and building the Pond Acre brand right now where it's at. I haven't been this.

[Brandon Bull]

Can't wait to see it.

[Eric]

Psyched about it in a long, long time.

[Brandon Bull]

Awesome.

[Eric]

Yeah.

[Brandon Bull]

Anything I'm leaving out?

[Eric]

I don't think so, man. I really enjoyed the conversation.

[Brandon Bull]

This was great. All right,

[Mike Garvey]

thanks for tuning in to the Side Hustle Squad podcast with Mike Garvey. We hope you enjoyed this episode and gained valuable insights to help you succeed in your side Hustle journey. Connect with Mike using the link links in the podcast description. If you love the show, please leave us a well worded five star review on Apple Podcasts. Your feedback and support help us grow and continue to provide you with the best content. And don't forget to follow the show to be notified when the next edition of the Side Hustle Squad Podcast is available. We have many exciting guests and topics lined up so you won't want to miss a single episode. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch you next time on the side Hustle Squad Podcast.