Bail Out

Summary

Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast – Episode Summary: "Bail Out"

Release Date: November 12, 2024

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Introduction

In the "Bail Out" episode of Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast, hosts Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty delve deep into the intricacies of Season 1, Episode 5 of the acclaimed TV series "Suits." Patrick and Sarah, portraying Mike Ross and Donna Paulson respectively, offer a blend of insightful analysis, personal anecdotes, and behind-the-scenes revelations that enrich the listening experience for both die-hard fans and newcomers alike.

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Personal Anecdotes and Behind-the-Scenes Insights

Encounter with Wildlife

• Patrick's Bear Encounter ([02:09]): Patrick shares a harrowing yet humorous story about a near encounter with a bear during a hike in Montana. Armed with bear spray, he recounts the tension of the moment:

  "I went on the hike and got up to this beautiful lake, coming within 10 feet of a bear on the trail alone." ([02:17])

• Sarah’s Rattlesnake Adventure ([04:45]): Parallel to Patrick's tale, Sarah narrates her own wilderness experience in Alberta, dealing with a rattlesnake and a grizzly bear:

  "We were doing the most beautiful hike in Banff, and suddenly, it's like, run bear." ([06:05])

Hair and Wardrobe Challenges

• Sarah’s Hair Styling Difficulties ([44:55]): Sarah opens up about a challenging day on set where her hair was rushed and poorly done, triggering feelings of inadequacy and the pressure of not wanting to inconvenience the crew:

  "I felt bad taking up somebody's time and space." ([46:17])

• Mixtape Memories ([24:54]): The hosts reminisce about the nostalgic process of creating mixtapes and CDs, highlighting the personal touches they added to impress others:

  "I have a collection of the ones I received." ([24:54])

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Episode Breakdown: "Bail Out"

Opening Scene and Character Introductions

• Louis Litt’s Antics ([14:20]): The episode kicks off with Louis Litt attempting to verify Mike's credentials by singing "10,000 Men of Harvard," adding a humorous touch to the bullpen dynamics:

  "It's a little bit late in the season, it's a busy hike... and sure enough, got up 10ft from a bear." ([14:20])

• Ray’s Introduction ([22:39]): The introduction of Ray, Harvey’s trusted driver, played by Anand Rajaram, adds depth to Harvey's character. The casual yet professional demeanor of Ray sets the stage for future interactions:

  "Ray tells Mike they won't be late for their meeting." ([22:54])

Central Plot: Trevor’s Trouble

• Trevor’s Arrest and Bail ([18:38]): Trevor, Mike's former best friend, makes a surprise appearance by getting arrested, prompting Mike to reluctantly bail him out. This decision sets off a chain of events that tests Mike's loyalties:

  "Trevor needs a bailout and swears he's no longer dealing drugs." ([18:38])

• Legal Maneuvers ([42:17]): Harvey’s strategic prowess comes to the forefront as he navigates a lawsuit involving his driver, Tony Santana, showcasing his ability to handle high-stakes situations:

  "Statements are like free throws. They're easy. Nobody's playing defense." ([62:37])

Donna’s Evolution and Key Interactions

• Donna vs. Lewis ([51:56]): One of the episode's highlights is Donna's witty confrontation with Louis Litt, establishing her as a formidable and intelligent character:

  "I don't appreciate limitations being placed on my beauty." ([43:59])

• Harvey and Donna’s Dynamic ([56:34]): The hosts discuss a pivotal scene where Donna asserts her independence, leading Harvey to recognize her unique strength:

  "She just does things." ([52:43])

Climactic Legal Battle

• Courtroom Showdown ([62:30]): The tension peaks in the courtroom where Harvey and Tony engage in a high-stakes legal battle. Harvey's meticulous examination reveals Tony's negligence, securing a victory:

  "Statements are like free throws. They're easy. Nobody's playing defense." ([62:37])

Resolution and Emotional Beats

• Harvey’s Resolution ([63:26]): As the episode wraps up, Harvey successfully secures the licensing deal, restoring peace to Joy's tumultuous life. The emotional resonance of the characters' developments is palpable:

  "Harvey delivers a unique gift to Mike from Joy." ([63:52])

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• Patrick on Actor Buffoonery ([15:57]):

  "He grounds silly, like singing '10,000 Men of Harvard' so deeply that you just fall more and more in love with him." ([15:57])

• Sarah on Donna’s Impact ([51:56]):

  "This was the scene that put Donna on the track for where Donna was gonna go." ([51:56])

• Patrick Reflecting on Mike’s Choices ([40:41]):

  "Is Mike not allowed to have a good time out on the town without it being, like, used against him?" ([40:43])

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Character Development and Themes

Donna’s Strength and Independence

• Sarah emphasizes Donna's pivotal scene where she stands her ground against Louis, highlighting her complex character arc:

  "Donna appreciates herself in a colossal way." ([10:47])

• Patrick concurs, noting Donna's ability to balance buffoonery without losing her grounded essence:

  "He plays it so honestly that it makes it that much funnier." ([16:32])

Mike’s Struggle with Past and Present

• The return of Trevor brings Mike's past back into focus, challenging his present relationships and professional integrity:

  "Mike's got a secret now, and who's he gonna tell?" ([18:38])

Legal Ethics and Strategy

• The hosts discuss the ethical dilemmas faced by Harvey as he navigates legal challenges, showcasing the show's nuanced portrayal of law and morality:

  "Harvey swoops in and scares Louis off." ([01:44])

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Conclusion

"Bail Out" serves as a cornerstone episode that not only advances the overarching narrative but also deepens the audience's understanding of key characters. Through Patrick and Sarah's thoughtful analysis, listeners gain a multifaceted perspective on the episode's plot mechanics, character developments, and underlying themes. The inclusion of personal stories and behind-the-scenes insights further enriches the discussion, making "Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast" a must-listen for fans seeking a deeper connection with the world of "Suits."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Patrick Adams ([02:17]):

  "I managed to keep my pants clean, but I had bear spray on me, which I did spray, and it was effective."

• Sarah Rafferty ([14:56]):

  "So I loved this parade into the bullpen."

• Patrick Adams ([15:57]):

  "He grounds silly, like singing '10,000 Men of Harvard' so deeply that you just fall more and more in love with him."

• Sarah Rafferty ([43:59]):

  "She says, 'I don't appreciate limitations being placed on my beauty.'"

• Patrick Adams ([62:37]):

  "Statements are like free throws. They're easy. Nobody's playing defense."

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Join Patrick and Sarah next week as they dissect Season 1, Episode 6, "Tricks of the Trade." Don’t forget to send in your questions and thoughts to [e-mail] for a chance to be featured on the show!

Transcript

[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick Adams]

Hi, I'm Patrick Adams. You may know me as Mike Ross from Suits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I'm Sarah Rafferty. And you may know me as Donna Paulson on Suits.

[Patrick Adams]

I do know you as Donna Paulson from Suits. You were fantastic on that show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You were really great as Mike Ross. Do you know my mom loved you on that show?

[Patrick Adams]

Oh my God. We're gonna get into moms later today. This is Sidebar a Suits Rewatch podcast or actually a Suits Watch podcast because Sarah and I have never actually watched the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How are you, Patrick?

[Patrick Adams]

I'm good. I'm still here in Montana. I hate that I'm not in the room with you. You know, I don't like that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I miss you.

[Patrick Adams]

But I love that we have all this technology to bring us together.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know. It really is a gift of the modern age, isn't it?

[Patrick Adams]

I had a run in with a bear. Did I tell you this?

[Sarah Rafferty]

You mentioned it.

[Patrick Adams]

I did mention it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Since we both have bear spray right now.

[Patrick Adams]

I've mentioned this to everybody. Okay so it's not surprising. Yeah. I went on a hike the other day here in Montana. I've been avoiding the hike, um, because I did not want to run into a bear. And I was like, I'm sure I'm going to be the guy that runs into a bear. And everybody was like, no, it's a little late in the season. It's a. It's a busy hike. And sure enough, went on the hike, Got up to this beautiful lake on my way down 10ft from a bear on the trail alone.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Did you soil yourself?

[Patrick Adams]

Came pretty close. Managed to keep my. My pants clean, but I had bear spray on me, which I did spray, and it was effective.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. So I went to buy bear spray the other day and I. I learned that you have to put it in a holster where you wearing a holster. Because I care about the accessories that people have in the house.

[Patrick Adams]

Yes, you have to have it in the holster because it needs to be accessible instantly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So it wasn't in your backpack?

[Patrick Adams]

No. If you have it in your backpack, you're bear food. If a bear comes for you, it's so fast, you need to be able to get it. Now, luckily, this bear that came for me, it did not come for me. Even in my mind, I'm changing the story. It did not come for me. It was very much just there, and I did not want it to be there. It did not run at me. That would have been a soil situation.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So. So. But the thing is, back to the bear spray. Since you are my tech support.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And since I own bear spray, how do you do you, like, pull a pin and then discharge it like it's a spray?

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You pull back a little thing on top and then it. It releases the trigger and you shoot. And you usually get about 30 or 40ft out of the bear spray, but only for about eight seconds.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's all you have.

[Patrick Adams]

That's all you need if you use it wisely and make sure you don't do it into the wind.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's what I was going to say. You knew where the wind was.

[Patrick Adams]

I was in the woods, so there wasn't really any wind. I was. Okay, okay. But I was aware of. I did consider that before I hit the trigger.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And did you. You had to hit the trigger like he. It looked at you and started approaching.

[Patrick Adams]

In my telling of the story, yes, I had to pull the trigger. If there was an independent study done of this interaction and somebody watched back the tapes, it would probably be fair to say I did not have to Pull the trigger.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And could you name the variety?

[Patrick Adams]

In my mind, this was a 10 foot tall bear that was coming to end my life. It was the biggest bear on earth and it was the scariest bear that's ever lived. In reality, it was probably a small cub that was completely disinterested in me and ran away. But because.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, you were in the Revenant. You were in the Revenant. Just tattooed.

[Patrick Adams]

I was very much in the Revenant, Yeah. Except I won. Where Leo failed, I succeeded.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know, I had a encounter kind of at the same time with a rattlesnake.

[Patrick Adams]

In Alberta?

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, in Alberta we did have an encounter with a grizzly bear. Not to top your story, but two years ago I was with my beautiful fake sons.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Did I tell you this story?

[Patrick Adams]

No.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That we were doing the most beautiful hike in Banff. And I should preface this by saying spend a lot of time in Vermont. I think you know how much I love Vermont. And we have a lot in Vermont. And they're cute. I mean, you don't get near them, but they're not coming for you as their food, right? Black bears? Yeah, the ones that are in kind of our yard and stuff. I mean, you just give them their space but you don't panic, really. So we are on this hike in Banff and it's a long hike and I found it very taxing. But we were going up to these ink pots and I didn't know what those were. Some sort of natural formation of beautiful scenic water thing called the ink Pots. And we had just committed. We had just like gotten hours into our hike and we were about to plateau where we were gonna see this thing and all these people were running the other direction. And I'm huffing and puffing, I'm like, what's going on? And they're like, run bear. And of course I was like, okay, what kind of bear?

[Patrick Adams]

Right. Did you say it? Just like that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I was like, hang on, I've been to Vermont. What kind of bear?

[Patrick Adams]

Okay, good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And they. And then somebody was like, grizzly run or you're going to be lunch. And I was like, oh man. And I ran the other direction.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, I did a lot of youtubing of grizzlies once. This I did not have a run in with a grizzly, to be clear, but I did a lot of youtubing of grizzly run ins. And I would love to avoid that at all cost.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Look, for the record, last weekend I was going to go for a hike by myself with bear spray. And Kananaskis and I started the drive and then I was like, you know, I'm not doing this.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm not going by myself.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, it's a good idea to go with people. And you should have a bell on your bag is what I heard.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. So that they can hear you.

[Patrick Adams]

Anyway, we digress.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But I want to say one thing before we undigress.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, please.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Which is I'm really impressed that you carry a prophylactic spray to protect yourself while you're on a hike because you're the guy who argues against helmets. So. Okay. Hmm, Interesting. You're picking and choosing your protection.

[Patrick Adams]

That's interesting. That is very interesting.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're. You're cherry picking protection.

[Patrick Adams]

One is because I feel somewhat in control. Again, I never want to be perceived as someone defending, not wearing a helmet. Like, I know that I should be wearing a helmet, but there's something in my mind where I'm like, I'm going out for five minutes on the bike. I'm in control of the thing. I'm going to be smart. The bear spray is like, I have no control over where the bear is going to come out. Like, I can't do anything about that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Fair. Fair.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. Anyway, it's not. It's not a defense, you know, helmet. Everyone wear a helmet.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I hear you. I trust you.

[Patrick Adams]

Before we dive into our episode today, which we're excited to do, we should just acknowledge that our podcast is out in the world.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We should.

[Patrick Adams]

It has been. It has been born and shared with the fans because it's been super exciting, vulnerable, crazy. It's full of anxiety and excitement. And I, you know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, but look, it's kind of the same thing that we experienced on suits with not watching suits. Right. There was a vulnerability that we shied away from until now when we thought, let's process it. So there's. We're sort of having a mini version of that with having this launched into the world, 100%. And to loop back to what you were just saying about the bear, like, versus versus the bike. This is something that we have more control over. So we can say to anybody listening right now, we do want to hear from you and we do want the feedback and we do want more of your questions, and we do want to engage more, 100%.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, we're loving hearing from everybody and seeing the reaction online is. I know, it's fantastic. And I joined Reddit and I don't know how it works, but I'm meeting a lot of great people in There who are huge fans of the show. So. Wow, that's been great.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So you'll catch me up on what that means?

[Patrick Adams]

I'll walk you through that. Maybe. Let's just start off with a fan question here. How do you feel about that?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, sure. Yeah. Can you read it to me?

[Patrick Adams]

We have a question from Trisha. She asks, if Mike and Donna each had a theme song, what would it be? Oh, and then she also asked, what would Donna's morning routine look like and would she do Get Ready With Me videos?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you know what those are?

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, I think I know what those are.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You have.

[Patrick Adams]

What is your theme song? Go.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, I need you to go. Yeah, you go.

[Patrick Adams]

It's probably something LCD sound system, because that's what gets me pumped up. Smooth Criminal, Michael Jackson.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm trying to think of songs that maybe play into the fraud of it all or something that just pumps me up, like Seven Nation army or something. Nice baseline. It definitely has a good baseline. Like everything in suits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I always think about Blame it on the Boogie. Do you remember the first time you and I were dancing on set, that is. And you were singing Blame it on the Boogie?

[Patrick Adams]

That's Donna's theme song. Does she make Get Ready videos to that song?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I would actually like to put this question back to the fans. I think theme songs for all the characters would be really interesting to hear what people say. Because when I get that question, which is such a great question and really requires some more thinking and deep thoughts about. Because obviously I don't know about you, but, like, I used music depending on what was happening in the storyline, you know, just kind of sitting around listening to music totally to get you ready for a scene. But when I think of the answer to that, I can only think of, like, joke, joke answers. Like, I can only be like, oh, like a virgin or like Madonna, you know, Holiday.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think what is interesting, too, is from the perspective of me, the lady who played Donna, from the pers. Or the perspective of outside of Donna or Donna's perspective, like, what would Donna pick? You know what I mean?

[Patrick Adams]

You're getting meta. You're going. You're going, you're going.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, but, like, the joke wasn't like, I'm too sexy. You know what I mean? Like, when she picks something, she had that huge. She was very vain. So, yes, she would do Get Ready With Me videos. Probably not to say that that's a vanity project, but, like, Donna appreciated herself in a colossal way. I think she would think she was something like Bohemian Rhapsody. Honestly, something that had a little bit of everything in it that was, like, complex, like, had rock opera. Yeah, exactly. There we go. Bohemian Rhapsody is what Donna would choose for herself.

[Patrick Adams]

Epic rock opera. So should we get into the episode or what? Yes. All right, here's the brief. Today we are breaking down season one, episode five, Bailout. This episode was written by Ethan Drogan and directed by Kate Woods. It originally aired on Thursday, July 21, 2011.

[Sarah Rafferty]

In bailout, Trevor is back and needs Mike's help. And while Harvey is attempting to close a massive deal, he's also defending his trusted driver in a lawsuit.

[Patrick Adams]

Um, okay, well, opening statements about this episode. Bailout.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

What do you have to say? What do you want to say before we dive in?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I. I just want to tell you I'm really surprised by how much I have to say about this episode. So make yourself comfortable, please, sir. Sit back and relax. A couple of things. A couple of things that I want to tell you. This episode. And I didn't know. I didn't remember this going into it, but this episode contains a scene that I think changed my life because I think it changed Donna's trajectory. I had some moments where there were some, like, challenging memories that I had, so I guess we'll get into that. And for the first time, I had a little bit of a, like, resistance to some plot points that I found really interesting. Not as like a I have a bone to pick or to yuck, a yum, but it was actually great. Because what it showed me was that even though for me personally, there were little plot moments that I had in here that I was like, hmm, it did not distract from my enjoyment of the episode at all. And in fact, I think it made me realize how invested I am in the characters and in the story, regardless, because of the way the writing is so character based. Like, it's not. It's not. It's not a procedural. You know, it's just. It's a show about people.

[Patrick Adams]

That's great. I mean, for me going into this, I think, you know, and we're gonna talk about all of those things more specifically. And I think I had a similar experience. And it's. You know, we're still, like, I can still see the growing pains of the show. I can still see the show trying to figure out what works, what doesn't work, the best thing. And it's really exciting. Cause there's moments where I'm like, why isn't. That's not quite working the way I remember suits starting to work at One point. Or that I'm not quite done. I'm not locked in the way that I would have thought I would be. Or, oh, I could have done that better. And then you come across a scene or a moment. And I think it's the same one that we'll talk about for you and for Donna, where something drops in and you feel something fundamental built.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

Being built foundational. Just drop in and click. And you're like, oh, wow, that's where we just found a gear that we didn't know we had. And once you find it and it's there, you're not going to forget it. And it's so exciting to see the click in it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

And I think that's probably why audiences wanted to keep tuning back in, you know, because. Because they would feel it. They'd go, oh, something just happened. I want to see that happen again.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right.

[Patrick Adams]

All right, so let's get into it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

All right.

[Patrick Adams]

Obviously, we start with a teaser. Louis is still trying to prove Mike didn't go to Harvard, but Harvey swoops in and scares Louis off. Harvey then hands Mike his own business card. It's official. Later, Mike receives a surprise call from jail. It's Trevor, his former best friend. Mike bails him out, and Trevor swears he is no longer dealing drugs. And also Jenny has broken up with him. How about that 10,000 men of Harvard song right off the bat, and everybody's singing it. It's really hard to find. And it's a pretty weird song. It's got, like, a mixture of Latin and English, and it's a perfect song for Lewis to be singing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So I loved this parade into the bullpen. And when. When you started to pretend, when Mike started to, like, try to sing along with it. And also Rick is embodying, like, the douchiest version of himself. It just cracked me up so much. I just loved it. And it was quick. It was just like a. It was just such a great way to start an episode.

[Patrick Adams]

I think it's like the. More, like, the show finds these silly things for Rick to do, like sing a song. I think we get into it with Cats and stuff later. Like, things that any other actor, it would be like, that's too silly. Like, that's not grounded in reality. We can't do that. But he's so good that he grounds silly, like singing 10,000 Men of Harvard so deeply that you just fall more and more in love with him. It's just a thing, as an actor that I admire so much about him is his Ability to be silly but completely grounded. I can take it so seriously. So seriously that I have to take it seriously.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick Adams]

It's like a superpower.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. Oh, my gosh. It's a superpower. And Aaron talked about that in this episode. When I spoke to him last night, he talked about how they were leaning into more and more the idea of Lewis being a buffoon. And then what you said about how he can ground that unlike anybody else. It just. That's why we love to hate him. We love to love him. We love all the things that Rick brought to Louis.

[Patrick Adams]

He understood how to be a buffoon, but he never played into the buffoonery. Does that make sense?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

He plays it so honestly that it makes it that much funnier, but also makes it feel honest and, like, I feel for him because the. So the. So the more buffoon he becomes, the more I kind of feel for him because I'm like, oh, my God, that poor man doesn't know what a buffoon he is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you know that was the genius of Rick.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm very excited to hopefully talk to Rick one day about it and about. About. Like, if that just came naturally to him or if that was a conscious decision to do that. Yeah, it's going to be a good conversation. All right, then we're in the conference room. Jessica leads a meeting where we learn about our case. The week the Joyful Toy company has a $200 million licensing deal on the table, all Harvey and Mike have to do is get the CEO to agree to the terms. Then Mike gets a call mid meeting. It's Trevor. He's been arrested, and he needs a bailout. And he was arrested for. Did you catch what he said on the phone? It was the second time watching it through. He said for hopping a bus. The Port Authority.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Was he. Did he maybe hop the payment kiosk?

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. Like, what's. Is he that he's that hard up? Like, he didn't have bus fare? He's just trying to get out of town. Well, we'll get into it. I guess we'll figure it out.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, I mean, I think what's interesting is we don't need to know.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, again, we're discovering things we don't totally need to know to be fully invested. But, Patrick, I just want to make. First of all, you guys are all on blackberries, which I think is particularly fun. Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

I'd be curious to keep track of how many times we change phones on this show and when.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That will be your department for sure. Not Mine, but. So I love that Mike doesn't know how to silence his phone. And I do realize that we weren't really close friends yet at that point, but I want you to know that, like, retrospectively, I feel like you were making fun of me in that moment, and I feel attacked across time.

[Patrick Adams]

Not you personally, but just the person that doesn't know how to silence their phone. I was surprised Mike doesn't know how to silence his phone, but I guess.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Was that hard for you to act?

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, I had to really do some work on that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. So, okay, so we cut to Mike waiting for Trevor outside the jail, and Trevor apologizes, and Mike reluctantly forgives him. So how did you feel about that moment?

[Patrick Adams]

I'm just down at this point in the episode to see Trevor again because I love what Trevor does to Mike.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

Like, for me, I think I just as an actor and like the push and pull of the old world and the friend, that's sort of bad news, but he's still a part of your old life. I think as a viewer, I'm stoked. I'm very happy to see Trevor back in the mix and worried for my friend Mike and what this is going to mean for him.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But I was surprised that I thought that Mike might possibly be engaging with him to get some sort of retribution. And I was surprised by that cynicism that came up with me. But I realized, like, I don't totally know Mike yet. Right. Because it's episode five. So what is Mike gonna do here? Like, what's gonna happen?

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. And is he gonna. You know, Mike's got a secret now, and who's he gonna tell? And as a result, we get. That's a great end of the teaser, because Mike and Trevor are catching up in the coffee shop. Trevor asks if Mike knows any good lawyers, and he says, no, he doesn't. And we smash into those opening credits. So, yeah, you know what?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think when we come back, we are going to police a little bit of the fashion, and we're gonna get to one of my favorite scenes of all time.

[Patrick Adams]

All right, we'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sarah, you know, we're going into the holidays, and there's no more important time to talk about gratitude.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Look, I was so grateful last week when I was struggling with being away. We were both away on set, and we had a nice phone call, and you helped me get reconnected with my gratitude.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. I think it's so important in my life to practice gratitude as much as possible because sometimes life can get pretty heavy and it's the quickest way out of that slump. That's why we're so happy that the show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, this month is all about gratitude. And you know what I want to say to you, Sarah, is thank you. It's been such a pleasure getting to do this with you. And I know we've talked a lot about mental health, but it's really helpful with us both away shooting away from our families to have someone to talk to through it. So I want to say thank you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, thank you, Patrick. I'm so grateful for you too, as you know.

[Patrick Adams]

But there is one other person that we don't thank enough, and that is ourselves. Sometimes it's hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense out of everything. And in this crazy world, well, that's just not that easy. So here's a reminder to all of you to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, please give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.comsidebarshow today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H L P.com Sidebarshow it's better over here.

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[Patrick Adams]

What's your go to drink before a flight? A West Coast IPA or Manhattan. Find the detail that moves you with local beer and craft cocktails at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval all right, we're back and we're getting into act one. Harvey, Mike and driver Ray who are meeting for the first time. They get into an accident with a cab driver, which leads To Harvey being named as a co defendant in a lawsuit. Mike takes the meeting with the Joyful Toy Co. CEO Joy to not so stellar results. So, first of all, we're outside the office, Mike riding up his bike, and he's not wearing a helmet.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Why are you not wearing a helmet? Because your hair looked pretty.

[Patrick Adams]

Because I'm not on the streets.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. So then we get to meet Harvey's trusted driver Ray, played by Anand Rajaram. And Ray tells Mike that they won't be late for their meeting.

[Patrick Adams]

I mean, best, I think early contender for the best needle drop of the episode fool no More by Eddie Hope. It's, like, worked into the scene, which is great. It's fun to see Gabriel's music aficionadoism coming out in this scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, Harvey's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

Great song.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I was really excited to see Rhae because he looms really large in my memory. And I think that's a little bit because of social media. Like how you were talking about that scene in the pilot and TikTok and how that kept coming up for you. There is a scene that's coming up between Donna and Rhae where they interact, and there's a really great line in there. So I think that's one of the reasons why it figures so prominently, but also because I think this is an episode where we do get to see some character development for Donna for the first time. So I think that's. And that had a lot to do with Ray. So I'm really. My heart leapt to see him again because I didn't really realize that this was that episode. But I think the music instantly makes the scenes feel so cool. And then Harvey hands Ray a cd. And I don't know about you, but when I saw a cd, I was like, are we, like, getting in a Chuck wagon? Like, it seemed like such an anachronism.

[Patrick Adams]

I just love the idea of Harvey Spector at home, like, on his laptop, figuring out how to burn a cd. Like, do you remember what that was like back in the day, trying to burn a compact disc for kids that don't know what that was, but it was, like, a whole thing. It took a minute to, like, figure it out. It, like, click and drag the songs to the software to make the cd. I assume maybe Don is doing it for him, but I like the idea of Harvey doing it for himself.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I can see Harvey doing it for himself because he's so protective about that. But, like, you asked me about burning a cd. Let me ask you, did you make Mixtapes. Oh, yeah, you did.

[Patrick Adams]

Of course. Especially for members of the opposite sex who I wanted to impress.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Absolutely.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, yeah. And you would, like. You would decorate them.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I still have a collection of the ones I received.

[Patrick Adams]

I've made a mixtape or two, but I've definitely made a mixed CD more that was more my generation. We were deep into CDs by that point.

[Sarah Rafferty]

My generation was you had to have the boombox with the two tape cassettes side by side so you can make them, and then you would. I had to, like, work on my penmanship.

[Patrick Adams]

Because you had to design it. You had to make it look great. Yeah. I wish this had had a little more flair. I wish the CD he handed him, like, I wish they'd turned it to camera and it had a little bit more sort of like sixth grade girl handwriting. Like, love to Ray mixtape vibes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you want a true confession out of me right now?

[Patrick Adams]

I love confessions.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Have you ever been in my garage? Oh, it's a disaster.

[Patrick Adams]

Is that a euphemism? No, I've never been in your garage. Sarah, what's in your garage?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, well, I just want to preface this by saying this is. This is unplanned. But, you know, after all these years on this TV show, we had lived in la, we had lived in Toronto, we had lived in New York prior to that. We then moved to LA and we had a garage where we literally put everything in the process of, like. And then we'll unpack it and sort it. Well, guess what? I have not unpacked and sorted all of it.

[Patrick Adams]

The CDs.

[Sarah Rafferty]

My point is, in that garage are all my mixtapes, all in one box that I saved from all the suitors.

[Patrick Adams]

Do you have a cassette player? Because we should break those out.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think there's a Walkman down there somewhere. But, like, this is the kind of stuff I've got to throw out. But what am I going to do with my mixtapes?

[Patrick Adams]

You give it to your daughter. Go find the 20 best mixtapes, give her a Walkman when she goes to college. That's the coolest gift I've ever heard.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Are you serious?

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I still have some cassingles.

[Patrick Adams]

Now we're good. That's for our tech podcast.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And good night. Okay, moving on.

[Patrick Adams]

Minutes into the drive, the car collides with a cab driven by Tony Santana, played by the amazing Jose Zuniga. Held up by the police, Harvey sends Mike ahead to babysit the client until he can get there. He's so good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right off the bat, I immediately saw him and was like, oh, my God, that guy. That guy. I love that guy. I love that guy. He's so good. What do I know him from Everything, Right? Exactly.

[Patrick Adams]

And then did you look him up?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, but it's that thing. It's those actors. It's those actors where you're like, that guy. That guy. And you can't. You might not know his name, but he's in everything, and he's always in so much.

[Patrick Adams]

I think our firm's best researcher, Kristen, discovered He has 148 credits, and he's appeared on 81 television shows, including all iterations of Law and Order.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Whoa.

[Patrick Adams]

Kristen's particular favorite. I think she's seen every Law and Order, too, but clearly just. He's such a. He's an animal. He's been in everything. He's so good. And again, I think we've said this before on this, but, like, you cannot overstate how important it is, especially early in the show, that when you have these people that are coming in for a single episode, they have, like, how good they are. Makes us so much better.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

You know, the quality of these actors that we're getting early in the show, I have no doubt, has so much to do with why the show was successful in the first season. Right. It's not just us, which is why.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We really need to get Bonnie Zane in here to talk to her about that process, because we owe her so much. Like, it's. It's often that casting director. Obviously, it's the casting director who's bringing that person in. But. But just like that vision and. And also being able to have the relationship with such great actors who then want to come do the show because of that casting director reaching out to them. Right. Especially early on.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. I know you're wondering if that whistle that I whipped out at the cab scene was actually me doing it. I know you've been wondering it. I know you've been thinking about it for a long time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I was about to ask you that. I was about to ask you that.

[Patrick Adams]

Yes, it was.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Really.

[Patrick Adams]

You heard it here first. It's an exclusive. That's actually my whistle here. I'll do it for you here. How did that feel? Was that good?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It was so good. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Adams]

And now Mike arrives at Joy McAfee's house, played by the legendary Susan St. James. Kate and Allie, I think, Right. Is. Is what she was like, best known for. Susan St. James. I mean, again, just been in so many things.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Just seeing her. She has, like, such an ease and like, authenticity. When she's on that set, you know, it's just like she comes in and she looks so beautiful. And I am loving her wardrobe in this, like, that chic camel ensemble that gives that quiet luxury kind of thing.

[Patrick Adams]

Were you loving all the wardrobe?

[Sarah Rafferty]

But then there was a necklace that I was like, please keep your luxury quieter. Like, do not wear that. And also, sound. Sound must have been like, really? We gotta battle the sound of all those chains around her neck.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. Yeah, listeners. So when you're on set and you have a necklace like the one you're wearing, and, I mean, that's where your mic always is put. It's the first thing you get set. They put a mic on you, and it's usually right here. Cause that's obviously closest to your mouth. So usually they want to avoid anything in the chestal area that's making a lot of noise or banging. I highly encourage. If you haven't seen this episode, go back and look at this necklace. Because never has there been a larger necklace, a necklace more designed to destroy a sound department than this necklace.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But I wanna say that maybe this was the initiation of the coastal grandma chic, like, corps.

[Patrick Adams]

Yes. Vibes. And I'm happy about this necklace. Cause now I know it's get you for Christmas. So Mike in this scene is sitting with some dolls. And he ends up confiding in joy that he's impressed with her and that he's feeling guilty about not spending enough time with his grandmother.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so I had a moment, Patrick, when she opens the doors to that dining room, and then we see all the dolls lined up. I remember that when we table read this or when we first got this, I was confused. I was like, wait, what show are we on? This feels a little weird. Like some very chic, rich lady is having tea with dolls. I had completely missed it. Like, I did not understand. Did you know what American Girl doll was?

[Patrick Adams]

I knew. I think maybe what America. I was raised in Canada. We don't have Canada Girl dolls. But I think at this point, I had been introduced to the concept of an American Girl doll. But I feel the same way you did, which is. And again, it sort of falls under for me the banner of, like, beta testing. How weird our show can be.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick Adams]

Like, it's odd. It's just really odd. But it's also really funny.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

You know, and it creates a great environment where you could see Mike try and figure out if this woman's serious and she's, like, losing her mind or if this is a Funny thing that she just does, like, what is actually going on here? It doesn't, like, totally work because it is weird. And it takes you. Takes me a bit out of watching it because it does make me ask a lot of questions about who this woman is and what she's doing. And did she have these dolls set up for Harvey and Mike? Was it a joke?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, how eccentric is she?

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But I would. I think, like, now that I'm talking to you about it, I realized that it's exactly kind of the show you wanna be on. The one that's like, checking to see how weird it can be. Like, keeping it weird for a couple moments here and there. But then I had a moment and tell me what you think about this, where I, like, just immediately viscerally cringed when Mike compared Joy to his grandmother.

[Patrick Adams]

Yes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, I didn't know. Like, do we do that? Like, can we just assume that she's a grandmother? Because we're assuming something about her age. I mean, she's like this big titan of industry, you know. I don't know. I think it's interesting that I found that to be some sort of faux pas. I mean, I know that the plot entirely hinges on that, but I struggled with it. Did you, like, at the time or when you saw it?

[Patrick Adams]

Maybe? I don't want to say I struggled with it as much because I'm not a woman in the world. And I imagine there's something very unique to being a woman in the world and seeing a man just sort of go, oh, you're like my grandmother. But it definitely rubbed me the wrong way a little bit. It's a thing I would never do in my life, is just sort of start talking to a. To an older woman and then not only comment on her age and her similarity in age to my grandmother, but also how impressive it is that she's doing her job. That she's like. Like, oh, it's amazing that a woman of your age is taking on a big thing, you know, clearly, when she's very.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So is there life post menopause?

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, exactly. So. So it definitely. I caught on it for a second. But, you know, I think we're gonna get into this whole plotline. I struggled a little bit to believe a lot of the pivoting of this character. For me as an actor, it's very hard to watch this moment. And I. And I can't say that I remember it exactly, but I do remember the feeling as I watch this scene. I'm like, oh, this is something I Felt a lot on suits where I was like, oh, I got it. I got it. I don't have a lot of Runway to do. Something that needs to be done in order for the story to progress.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Yeah. And so Mike returns to Harvey's office, where Jessica informs them that Joy has had a change of heart, that she won't sign the licensing deal. So it's interesting that you said what you just said, because this is the moment that I was like, hmm, Hmm. I don't. I don't think that's a. I don't. I'm not totally buying it. Like, so what I'm saying to you right now is I wasn't taking issue with it as much when you were playing the beat, as much as when I was delivered the information in the next scene that she had made this decision based on something that Mike had done. I was like, she must have been thinking about that for a very long time. But it doesn't matter, because we're still just care about the characters.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, no, I'm right there with you. And I always have this voice in my head that I think, is Aaron talking too. Which maybe he'll say something different. But I just think you put the story up on a wall, and you're just like, I just want to get from A to B to C to D. Sometimes it's gonna be more elegant and more believable, you know, and you can buy it. And sometimes, maybe it's not as easy to do, and maybe that's also us as actors. We didn't land the play, but whatever it is, like, you have 42 minutes, and we gotta get there. And so the good news is, is that the show survives it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. That's what I learned in this episode.

[Patrick Adams]

So then Harvey tasked Donna with scheduling another tea party. But then all of a sudden, a pizza guy serves Harvey a notice. Harvey will be called as a witness in a suit against Ray.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so I remember this moment because I remember that day on set when I had asked Gabriel, like, how he did the I can't hear you gesture, where he, like, sort of points to his ear. Yeah, yeah, he points to his ear. And then he's like, I don't. I didn't hear you right. Yeah. And I asked him. I was like, do you think it would be a good idea if I just did it back to you in this moment? And he was really into it. So when I did it, Kate, our director, was like, I don't know if that really works. She didn't know what I was doing. And then Gabriel kind of along with me, we kind of talked about why we thought that this would be a way to show that these two characters have a mind meld, that this is like a shorthand that they do. Maybe this is, like, one thing that they do all the time with each other. Like, meh, meh, meh, meh, meh. I can't hear you. And she was super into it. But what the memory brought up for me was how timid I was and how I had to ask sort of permission for my choices. And Gabriel championed that choice for me. And it was a fun thing. I think that the audience have, like, there's been gifts, and people have enjoyed that Donna and Harvey did that thing, you know, that we both did it. But I thought I sort of hearkened back to a time before I really felt like I could take up space or really have a voice. It was an interesting thing to come up.

[Patrick Adams]

Totally. Yeah, I really relate to that. I mean, you know, it's scary. It's scary when you're building a character. It's scary to ask to take a risk. It's scary to make a choice and worry that maybe it'll fall on its face. But thank God you did, because I think it's a great moment, and it does say a lot about your guys relationship.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And it's scary to take up time. Like that time when you sort of have to stop and talk to the director for a second about it and explain it. Like, one thing, the most valuable commodity is obviously time. Like, we don't have time in the day. So that was. It was interesting to remember that. I felt like I couldn't take that up. And it comes up in a couple moments. So I'm excited to share that with you when we get to it.

[Patrick Adams]

So then Mike wants to fix the problem that he caused with joy. But Harvey says, you don't send a puppy to clean up his own mess. He makes a reference to Travis Bickle in this scene. I don't. Did you know who Travis Bickle was?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Nope. No idea who Travis.

[Patrick Adams]

Really?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Should I?

[Patrick Adams]

Taxi Driver. Robert De Niro.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, no, nothing.

[Patrick Adams]

Have you seen. Oh, here we go. We want to get real. Have you seen Taxi Driver?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Taxi Driver? Yeah. I'm not a Traxi.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't know if it's your movie, if I'm honest.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thank you. Thank you. That whole De Niro, Pacino, Godfather like. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Patrick Adams]

Wait a minute. Godfather.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know what I'm stepping into here, and I'm a little nervous, but, like.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, it's been a great podcast. It's been great doing this with everybody. Good, solid few episodes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thank you. Thank you. You take care. Good luck out there. Okay, moving on.

[Patrick Adams]

Fellow associate Devin gives Mike the nickname Speed Bump. And when complaining to Rachel, she teases Mike about needing a thicker skin again. Devin's played by Julian Dizzotti, who also appeared in Inside Track and Dirty Little Secrets. And sadly, this is his final episode. They were doing this thing where they were trying to find, like, a foil for Mike in all of these first episodes. And so I always felt bad because Julian was great. All these guys were so good. But I just think ultimately there were too many people to service in the story, so they couldn't just keep someone around.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, I think having too many people to service is something that we see in this episode because we see a bit of Rachel here, but we don't see a lot of her in this episode. And what really struck me was her belt.

[Patrick Adams]

There's two belts in this. I think we have another belt, her belt.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We got Donna's belt. We had that necklace. We have a. You know, we have some. We got to iron out the accessories again.

[Patrick Adams]

We're figuring out the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's like growing paints.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, growing paints. There's some growing pains. I felt so happy to see Rachel and then bummed not to see more of Rachel because I'm still. I'm now invested as a viewer in this relationship. And, you know, so when she gave that little look to him on the way out the door, at least I.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Was like, that has a lot of real estate in terms of keeping you invested. When you get that character's private moment like that at the end of something, you're like, ooh, I want more. Ooh, what's going on there? I want more of that, like. And I think this show does that very well. We'll talk about it when we get to the end of the episode. But that thing of leaving the audience wanting more like that look from Rachel, I think that's strategic, actually, on behalf of characters.

[Patrick Adams]

You do that as an actor, too. Sometimes I feel like if I don't have much to do in a scene or in an episode of a show, like, I'll look for the private moment that I'll do. Maybe you'll catch it on camera, maybe you won't. But for me, it's there in the editing room. So, you know, maybe I'm not there for very long, but I can still hopefully leave an impression like Megan does in this scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think Donna was built on those. Like. I think it was always, like, the exit line or, you know, just the weird thing that we did when they kept rolling at the end and let.

[Patrick Adams]

Us do so important.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Mike answers a call from Trevor, who wants to pay back the bail money. And Mike looks back at his co workers, with whom he can't relate, and agrees to meet at a bar the next night.

[Patrick Adams]

Best line of the episode. Here we can crochet pantyhose if that's what it takes to be cool.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm really excited that the gentleman in the episode brought us back to hosiery.

[Patrick Adams]

Can you crochet pantyhose?

[Sarah Rafferty]

No.

[Patrick Adams]

Is that crocheting is like a. It's like, it's. It's pretty big, right There's. And pantyhose is very.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I feel offended that you're asking me, like, this grandma moment. I feel like you're asking me that question based on my age.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, I'm just. I'm asking into the world, like, is this possible? I don't think it's a thing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't know if you can crochet them.

[Patrick Adams]

Meanwhile, Harvey tries to convince Tony, the cab driver, to back out of the lawsuit. Instead, Harvey is made a co defendant. Tony seems confident that he can win the suit. Harvey says, I appreciate a good single malt. Doesn't mean I can make one. Great line. Another solid line. I love this scene. This scene was kind of a sleeper scene for me in the episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Absolutely.

[Patrick Adams]

Gabriel is just in the perfect gear. I was like, oh, this is Harvey, like, threatening but not overbearing, sort of charming while he's destroying somebody's confidence, you know, and then a really good person to play up against him and, you know, who ultimately is kind of winning the scene. Even though Harvey's so strong. I just, like. The scene kind of popped out of nowhere. It was a little bit something clicking into place for me, like we were talking about.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think what I liked about this scene is something that Gabriel is a choice that Gabriel made that carries into the scene in the courtroom scene, which is just how kind of tickled he is by the, like, the rivalry, the sort of sportsman, like, vibe that he's having with Jose, that it's just like, okay, may the best man win. This is, like, gonna be a good, fun boxing match. Like, we're gonna go a few rounds and get a good workout. Even though the stakes are, unfortunately, a lot higher for Jose.

[Patrick Adams]

And so our show now has to balance, like, big Corporate lawyers going up against a guy who's a cab driver.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick Adams]

Like, how am I going to feel about that? And I think this episode actually does a pretty good job of letting him speak his piece, but also then, you know, having our guys hold their ground too.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Yeah.

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[Patrick Adams]

Okay, then we're into Act 2. In Act 2, Harvey offers to represent Ray in the lawsuit pro bono, but that means he'll need Lewis's help moving things forward along with the judge. In exchange, Lewis wants help from Donna. Donna shuts that down immediately with some beautiful fake crying. Mike unsuccessfully attempts to get Joy's deal back on track. And Mike and Trevor narrowly avoid trouble at the bar. And meanwhile, Harvey has no luck with the judge. The trial will begin the next day. So, yeah, we have this first scene. Ray rushes into Pearson Hardman. Donna gets some time with Harvey, and.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She says, but I don't appreciate limitations being placed on my beauty. Great line. This scene. I have so much to say about this scene, Patrick. This is one of the first very memorable Donna moments. I think it's really fun that she has it with Rhea and that you kind of get to see these two, that they have a ongoing relationship. It's kind of like an upstairs, downstairs sort of vibe. And I wanna preface this before I get into it. We had an incredible crew on suits over nine years, and we legitimately became a work family. But this day was a bit of a one off. It just wasn't a great day for me. I think there were some maybe misunderstandings with Schedul. And funny enough. And please, please, please know that I do think it's funny. This had a little bit to do with my hair. Did you see Donna's hair in the scene?

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. I'm not usually the best at, like, noticing differences in hair. Ask my wife. We get into fights about it often, but I did. Something felt a little off here. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. So this scene, I remember coming to work, and I had been home in la, trying to take care of the family back home in la, and I came back to work, and I remember walking into the hair and makeup trailer, and there was nobody to do my hair. The head of the department was kind of like, oh, you're here. And there was a little bit of something going on. And it was clear that my presence was maybe unexpected. That, honestly, it seemed like I was really putting them out because I needed to be processed for the episode. There was a little something between the members of the hair department about who was gonna be responsible for me, and it just felt very, very awkward. But this was some kind of one off day where a very difficult schedule maybe suddenly got more difficult. So I sit down and something happened that has never happened to me before. And I think the ladies who are listening to this might relate. They put a set of hot rollers in my hair, like, you know, like grandma, like, you roll up the whole set of hair and just sat me there for a certain amount of time, like, under a dryer, and then just sent me onto set. So you have these curls that kind of make no sense that are pretty silly, and then they just took hairspray and sprayed them, like, shellacked them into place. And I didn't think about it at the time. I just felt bad that I was taking up somebody's time and space and that they seemed like they really didn't want to deal. Right. They were just like, okay, just sit here. Let's just quick do some rollers. Like, okay, get her to set.

[Patrick Adams]

Can I ask you real quick? And you're at the pro. I'm guessing, you know, given how we were talking about taking risks and taking up space in a show where you don't yet feel like you can, you probably know when the rollers are in your hair at that moment, like, this is not right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is. My hair has never been done like that. I just remember wanting to disappear and be small and be sorry for taking up space. And I think that was. Is a little bit of a Fourth kid, Trigger, if my sisters are listening, my mom, I love you, family. It was great. Like, I wouldn't change anything. But being the fourth kid when you're really young is sometimes hard because you can't keep up, and you're holding people up and they've got a lot to do, and they're bigger than you, and you can't tie your shoes. And, like, I felt. I think I sort of have internalized that, like, sorry, sorry, sorry thing, you know, I think a lot of women experience that in the world, too. A lot of us apologize a lot. Right. But, you know, in a funny way, looking back on my childhood, I did feel bad about holding people up. And I felt bad when I got to suits nie to have my hair done. I felt bad needing to have help tying my shoes. I felt bad taking up these people's time. So when you get to looking at the scene, the hair's pretty funny. And especially when Rhea and Harvey walk out of the scene, you can see all the hairspray that shellacs that in place. I am also wearing the same dress that I wore in the pilot. So when I got to work again that day, there were no clothes for me. And there was like a. I don't know if the schedule had changed or something, but there was like a, oh, you're here. Oh, like, we didn't do a fitting. We don't have any clothes for you. So they put me back in that dress and put a new belt on it.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm curious about. Sorry to. I don't mean to interrupt, but we have this big scene coming up that we both feel very strongly about with you, and it's on the same day. You're wearing the same clothes. You're in the same hair, right?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, but they were shot very far apart, and I can get to that.

[Patrick Adams]

So you have different hair.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, I have totally different hair. Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

Like, it's more the vibe.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. And it's. I'm glad you bring it up, because my whole point here is that that was. There was a hard day, and then there was the day that healed.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And, like, this isn't a real. Like, I want to be really clear with the listeners. This is not a real problem. Like, not having someone do your hair and not having an outfit to wear on the television show you're on is not a real problem. What I'm saying is that it triggered in me something that is an old story about, like, not taking up space, not needing anything, God forbid, and not putting anybody out. And it was just like. I felt like I was putting the department head of hair, the hair key hair person, and the wardrobe, and the person who had to find the wardrobe, I felt like I was putting everybody out by being there. And so when I get to that scene, which is rooted in a really great exchange, thank God for the writing, because my performance is really dysregulated. All I can see is a dysregulated person who doesn't even. My eyes are kind of moving everywhere. It's not a grounded performance.

[Patrick Adams]

To me, that's the relatable thing, too, is, like, you don't want to take up space. You don't want to be troublesome, and you just want to get along and make everybody feel okay and just make it go quickly. But then ultimately, you get in front of a camera and someone says, action, and it's on you. And if you haven't taken care of yourself and at least made your peace with what's happening.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

Because if you're still holding onto, like, oh, now I feel small, and I feel like I didn't get. Now I don't know if I look right. And, like, does anyone care that I don't look right? But you still have to, like, then do your job on camera. And I certainly relate to that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And you don't want to see. Seem difficult for needing something. This is a proof to me people liked this scene, and people continue to like this scene, and the scene plays. So I can't be the judge of my work ever.

[Patrick Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Because people received this scene, like, did you enjoy the scene?

[Patrick Adams]

I love it because I love to see Donna do her thing. I could feel, knowing you, I could feel, especially in contrast to what we're about to get to, which I think we need to get into now. But, like, you can see it locked in. So now you can see the part where you're, like, not feeling that way.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What we never talk about enough is, like, on suits. Like, our crew was extraordinary. Like, the way they supported us on hard days. People had hard days. Hard things happen in their lives. And had to go to the work the next day. And the way the crew was there to lovingly sort of lift everybody up so that everybody could do their job was really, really beautiful thing.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. I want to get right into, you know, what the win from this is, which is this next sequence that we both talked a lot about. So we're back in Harvey's office. Lewis successfully gets Harvey's case moved up, but in exchange, he wants Donna to cover for Norma while she's on vacation. Harvey gives his blessing if Donna will agree to the arrangement. So Lewis approaches Donna, but she's on to him, and she has a lot of fun turning him down. So it's really simple. Setup of Lewis is gonna go talk to Donna to try and have her come work for him while his assistant is away. It's definitely the highlight of this episode. It's one of these snap into place moments, and I'd love to hear what you have to say about it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I have a lot to say about this scene. This is the scene that I always reference when somebody says, what was your favorite scene on Suits? And you're like, I can't pick a favorite scene out of 134 episodes. It's impossible. But I can say this was my first favorite scene. And in many ways, it was the scene that I think put Donna on the track for where Donna was gonna go, because it was a scene where she got to mess with Lewis, prove that she had some acting chops, and then at the end of the scene, you find out that Harvey watched that said, you're really good at messing with Lewis, which I knew, but that must mean that you do that to me. And Harvey's character at the beginning of the scene says, she's the one thing I can't give you. Right. I don't tell her what to do. She just does things.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, yeah. It's not up to me. It's up to her.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And that's very clear.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Which I love. So the setup is amazing. And technically with this scene. So this scene wasn't in the episode originally. We didn't shoot it. When we shot this episode, we were. This was episode five. I think we were probably into shooting episode seven. And Aaron confirmed this last night when I spoke to him when we shot this scene, because when we get to episode seven, Donna's into the whole acting thing that Erica Lopez, one of our writers, pitched as being something about Donna's backstory that she was very into acting. So when they. What they had in episode five, this episode, was that it had come in short, which Aaron found really funny, because it's always that they had been coming in too long. So they kept saying, make it shorter. Make it shorter. So then they made an episode that was too short. What he mentioned was that they had the line where Donna says, it's like, my soul hurts now. He remembered very specifically that that was a Sean Jablonski line. And from there, he said that he loved the opportunities to write scenes that you didn't actually need, because then their job is to write them so well that even though you don't need them, you can't do without them. And he said that this was the first one of those scenes where they had the luxury of being able to do that. And funny enough, he said that this scene was the father of a scene that comes later between Lewis and Donna, which is a scene in the finale where she has the tickets. And Aaron said that that scene would never have been written later on if this scene hadn't occurred. I'm not some token you win at a fair, Lewis. So it does sort of show that it was true that it had set up Donna in a whole new way to be the person who messes like that with Lewis, to set up her relationships with other people. And what was funny about getting a scene at one point in the season and knowing that it was gonna be put back earlier and having the opportunity to play like this for the first time in the series that on its own kind of healed the dysregulation that I had from that first time. And, you know, happily, Donna's hair looks pretty good at this point.

[Patrick Adams]

That's all that really matters after all that. The hair looks great. And moving on and the hair. Everything you said is so right. I think what my experience of it was was it put really simply, Donna was relegated to like quick one liners before and now you got a scene. Yeah, you got a scene where it wasn't like, well, we got to cut away from this because it's not meat on the bone. It's not plot development. So we got to just like let Donna say something sort of quick, which was that scene with Rhea before. Quick, funny line. Get the character moving into the other room so we can move the plot along. In this scene. It was like, let's just let them have a scene and take a joke and then ramp it up and then ramp it up and then ramp it up. And let's watch Lewis curdle under the weight of this emotional wellspring you're having. And then the punchline is like, let's rack focus over to Gabriel and have Harvey suddenly realize that Donna has done the same thing to him. It's like a joke. The whole scene is like a great joke told well. Right. It's character over plot. And it's the first time where the character of Donna is allowed to really fly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. And you're right, like doing this is actually easier than that previous racing, which is like, just make this line work. The line being, I Don't like limitations being placed on my beauty. Just come in. Do that. Do it real quick. Let's move on. You're right.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, I think just to put a pin on this scene, like, it's just. It's so cool to see. I love that Kevin directed it. Kevin obviously directed our pilot, and he's really responsible. Not that Kate didn't do a beautiful job with this episode, but you can feel something fundamental foundational to the beating heart of our show. We kind of discover a moment, and I think it was really great and really important.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And even the last beat of this, I want to tip my hat even further to Kevin. I absolutely remember the moment when he was shouting. He left the cameras running, and he was like, look over your shoulder and just say, yep, just say that. And I was just like. And I felt like, quick, do it. Quick, do it. And I just said, yep. But it was the perfect button.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. Back at the bar, Trevor suggests to Mike and the ladies that they move to a new location. And as the party leaves, they're watched by Victor, the drug dealer from the pilot. Mr. Hot Dog Cart Warehouse, which I know brings up a lot of. A lot of things for you. Outside looking for a cab, Mike asked Trevor about the thugs in the bar. Trevor evades the questions, and Victor, in a shady friend fight in Mike's business card abandoned on the table. And they decide to get Trevor through Mike.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And then Mike is in bed with a beautiful woman. They're both naked. And then there's a song that needs to get the greenback boogie award because it is clearly trolling him with something about don't be the underdog, don't doubt the underdog. What were those lyrics? So the lyrics to start that song, Follow the underdog, hold on his collar tight this city loves a scrap One day it's going to fight. Thank you, Kristen. Kristen, Our firm's best researcher with the perfect quick Google on the lyrics. I think we needed that to understand that Mike just got lucky.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, I find that funny because this is the second time where Mike's kind of had a good time. Right. Like, Mike is doing something that Harvey does in the pilot, and everybody thinks he's the coolest guy in the world. Right. With the cocktail waitress.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

But when Mike does it, it's like. No, it's like he's going down the dark side, you know, it's so bad. And I think I. I don't really remember my specific reaction to it, but watching it, I'm a little defensive, I guess, of my Of Mike just being like, the guy just had a good time. Obviously, Trevor's bad news. Obviously, we gotta get him out of Mike's life because he's dragging him down. But at the same time, I'm like, is Mike not allowed to have a good time out on the town without it being, like, used against him?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe not with Trevor.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, yeah. My mom has decided that she's going to start watching this show while we're watching it, so she's sending me notes every week. This is the first week I got notes from my mom on the episode. One of her top notes was Trevor's. Gotta go.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you think your mom would join us for a pod?

[Patrick Adams]

I don't know. I don't want to speak for her. I think she'll enjoy just sending in notes from the sidelines for now.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay.

[Patrick Adams]

And there's something about my mom in written form that's really delightful too. It's very specific, so I'm gonna enjoy that for a while. But, yeah, maybe we'll get her on the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

My mom is really specific in written form, too, because she was an English teacher.

[Patrick Adams]

With my mom, it's different. I'm asking for the notes to strictly be written after a martini. Oh, I don't want them before the martini. You can have the idea before the martini, but I'd rather the note be written post martini, because then it's a little loose.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, martinis with mom. That's a segment right there.

[Patrick Adams]

Let's keep going. We're into Act 4. Harvey pulls a Harvey and magically saves the day with Joy and the licensing deal. And later in court, Tony and Harvey go toe to toe. When Harvey's examination of Tony results in winning admission, Harvey offers to settle. Then Mike gets another distressing call about Trevor.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wait, did we mention that we got the use of the sidebar?

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, yes. There was a scene in the courtroom when they sidebar what we were talking about. When they have their emotional. Their moment where they solve their problem in the middle of the courtroom. That is the first use of sidebar.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I got excited. They said sidebar. I feel like we're in the fifth episode. Are we going to count these?

[Patrick Adams]

Let's count them.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Sidebar.

[Patrick Adams]

And when I say let's count them, let's ask Kristen to count them if.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She can, because math is hard.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. So we get to wrap up this Joy storyline. She's got her kids running around her and. Or grandkids, rather, running around her. And turns out she doesn't love this new life on her tahitian. Cruise. Her family life. Oh, I'll give up my whole life for my kids. Oh, wait a minute. Grandkids are tough. Send me back to work.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a little bit of a statute of limitations here. I just want to say there's a little bit of a trope at work here that's a little bit like. Well, actually, you know, women are built to multitask. If you know a woman, she's great at multitasking. This woman has a lot of plates to spin. Some of them may break in her house. She's not going to care. She's going to just pick up the pieces and handle the chaos. And in that previous scene where she said, you know, I'm not going to do this licensing deal because I want to go on a cruise to Tahiti or go on a trip to Tahiti, it's like, does she need to pack a steamer trunk and be gone for four months? No, just.

[Patrick Adams]

Just take a vacation, bro.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Go on your trip again.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, like, we've. We've sort of belabored the point. But she's. She's not making great decisions. But it is fun to watch our guys. It's fun to watch Harvey solve a problem by coming up with something really quickly, like surround you and all of your grandkids to let you know that family life can be stressful too. And maybe you enjoy your job.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, but she can bring home the bacon and fry it up.

[Patrick Adams]

So later in court, Tony Santana has a strong start in the civil case, but Harvey has an even stronger defense. In the end, Harvey's examination of Tony reveals the truth. Tony ran the red light. Oh, my goodness. Tony, Great scene, though. I really loved this scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I really like the line where Harvey says, statements are like free throws. They're easy. Nobody's playing defense.

[Patrick Adams]

Great scene. I'm always. Again, I don't know even what we're calling these things where you're like, legally, is this a thing that people do, but they just sort of stop and start having a very heart to heart conversation in the middle of the courtroom, and then they get to a settlement and they figure it all out.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'd be interested if the lawyers who watched suits were bumped by that or if they just thought it was a fun device.

[Patrick Adams]

You know, I think one day we should have a lawyer on to hear about things that bump them and things that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, I would love that. I would love that.

[Patrick Adams]

Because I'm sure they just. When you watch the Lost show, you have to just go, yeah, I'm just giving up all of it. Like, it's just. It's fantasy and that's fun. That's why we watch these things. Thanks.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you think doctors watch doctor shows?

[Patrick Adams]

I'm sure they do, but I'm sure they laugh at it and enjoy it. Harvey offers to settle. He only wants what he always wanted for insurance to handle the matter. And he won't collect fees. Mike's phone rings out loud again. So Mike doesn't know how to silence a phone. He steps out of the courtroom to take the call. It's Victoria calling from Trevor's phone. Trevor owes them $50,000, and if Mike doesn't bring the money in an hour, they'll take it out on Trevor.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Mike finally tells Harvey everything, and Harvey comes to Trevor's rescue. Finally, Harvey delivers a unique gift to Mike from Joy.

[Patrick Adams]

Guys, this is the Mike Ross doll. We have a question about the Mike Ross doll from Geraldine. What happened to the doll of Mike Ross? That would be a great memento of season one. Geraldine. You're not wrong. Kristen agreed. She has spent the last three weeks maybe calling every single prop person that's ever worked with Suits, every producer, every person that was in charge of what happened to the props after Suits shut down. We have not been able to find the Mike Ross doll, so we're sending it out into the world on this podcast. If anyone. We're going to figure out what the reward is. But if anyone can bring us the Mike Ross doll, there's a handsome reward in it, to be sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The doll itself being the handsome reward.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, maybe. No, no, no, no, no. We need the doll for us. It needs to belong to us. But you'll get something great.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my God. What would you do with it if you had it, though?

[Patrick Adams]

I don't want it. I don't want the doll. I think we collectively should have it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No.

[Patrick Adams]

Or maybe Kristen should have it. I don't know. I don't know what it is. I don't. We don't even know why we want it, but we just want it because it belongs. It needs to come home, Mike. You need to come home. And then Harvey and Mike get into Ray's repaired black car. All is well. We hear fool no More by Eddie Hope again. And this just brings up one thing from this episode that did make me sad, which is, you know, Ray. We don't get to see him again. I know, but it did bring up the question of, like, what happened to Ray? Is he still the driver of Harvey? Every time he gets. We get into the car on this show for the next seven seasons. Are we meant to believe that Ray is just up front and we're not seeing him or speaking to him?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right, Right.

[Patrick Adams]

It made me a bit sad getting to the end of this episode knowing, like, oh, that's. That's the last time we hear from Ray.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

So that's the end of our episode. Closing statements. I think we've said it already. I found it to be a really interesting episode. There were things that I struggled with. I loved bringing Trevor back into the mix. I like the challenges that poses for Mike. I like seeing his old life yank him back in. I love Ray, but I'm bummed we don't get to see him again. But really, the highlight of the episode is that incredible scene where you and Lewis and Harvey, specifically, really you and Lewis, specifically, really you drop into this whole new mode, and I think you can see the, like, clear place this show needs to go.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. And I think watching it and especially talking about that scene, I just think I'm overwhelmed with how grateful I was to just had the opportunity to play that scene. And just think about, like, having Rick there and having Gabriel there and just the writing and just how everything came together in that way. And, you know, definitely did have one of my probably all time favorite lines that I said on Suits in it, which is that my soul. It's like my soul hurts now. I'm excited to be reminded of those other ones as we go through because that's another question that people ask me all the time, like, what's your favorite line? There are other great ones in there that I'm sure I'm gonna find along the way, because we did. We had these writers that were just. I mean, they just sprinkled us with fairy dust. You know, like I said earlier, it's really interesting to just be kind of charting the ebbing and flowing of the characters. And we'll be able to continue to see that because now we've left this episode wanting more of Rachel, wanting more of Jessica. And I just haven't really thought about how hard the calculus must have been for our writers room to actually figure out those things all the time. The balance of all that.

[Patrick Adams]

Maybe talk to some writers eventually, other than Aaron. That would be great too. So my mother sent in her notes. She called it the mother load, which I think is funny. Haven't quite decided whether having three separate and such disparate storylines, four if you count the setup with Mike, not knowing the Harvard song in one episode is riveting or confusing. Did manage to keep up. Barely in parentheses thought the guest stars playing the taxi driver, the toy company CEO and Ray were exceptionally good. Guess more is good and keeps viewers wanting more. But please ditch Trevor. Hats off to casting and to the person responsible for the pacing of the episode, which is my favorite. The idea that there's just a pace person, that's my favorite. And my mother obviously also wants to know what happened to the doll. So whoever has it out there, my mom wants it and you don't want to mess with my mom. Okay? So do we have a goddamn count? What are we we do we want to guess? We've always been guessing. What was your guess for this episode, Sarah?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I thought there was one.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, I think there's much more than one. I'm going to go with four.

[Sarah Rafferty]

There were three this week. Goddamn ticking time bomb.

[Patrick Adams]

Is this like Price is Right? If I go over, I lose.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. I'm sorry, Patrick.

[Patrick Adams]

That's fair. That's fair.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so that's a wrap on Bailout. Thank you so much for coming back and please join us next week when we chat about season one, episode six, Tricks of the Trade. And as always, we want to hear from all of you. If you have questions, thoughts or ideas or anything else you want to hear about on the pod, please send your emails to sidebar [e-mail] and if you want to record an audio clip of your question, we would love that. Then we can play it on the show. Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams and SiriusXM Media. Our senior producer is Kimmy Gregory. Our producer and researcher is Christian Schrader. Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez and our audio mix is by Eduardo Perez. Our music is by Brendan Burns and our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin Anderson.

[Patrick Adams]

Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening and we'll see you next week.

[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

Smile. You're on cricket.

[Patrick Adams]

Cricket 5G requires a compatible device and is not available everywhere. Discount varies by line. Fees may apply. Terms and restrictions apply. See cricketwireless.com for details.