Casting Suits with Bonnie Zane

Summary

Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast – Episode Summary: "Casting Suits with Bonnie Zane"

Release Date: November 26, 2024
Hosts: Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty
Guest: Bonnie Zane, Esteemed Casting Director

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast, hosts Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty dive deep into the intricate world of casting for the acclaimed TV series "Suits." Joining them is Bonnie Zane, a casting powerhouse whose expertise significantly shaped the show's iconic ensemble.

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2. Meet Bonnie Zane

Bonnie Zane brings over three decades of casting experience to the table, having worked on a myriad of successful television shows across various genres. Her exceptional ability to assemble dynamic and cohesive casts has earned her widespread respect in the industry.

• Bonnie Zane (02:15): "Bonnie's work has left a lasting impact across genres."

With notable projects like Mad About You, NewsRadio, Sports Night, and Ed, Bonnie's collaboration with her longtime partner, Gail Pillsbury, has produced standout shows such as Close to My Heart and Pretty Little Liars. Her pivotal role in casting "Suits" ensured the chemistry and depth that carried the series through nine memorable seasons.

• Bonnie Zane (03:23): "She won two ARDIOS awards. Do you know what the RDOS awards are?"

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3. The Art of Casting "Suits"

Bonnie Zane discusses the nuanced process of casting "Suits," highlighting the importance of chemistry, depth, and the right connections among actors.

• Bonnie Zane (03:37): "Bonnie was the person who saw the potential in our original cast and brought together a group of actors who had the chemistry, depth, and connection that helped carry 'Suits' through nine memorable seasons and 134 episodes."

Patrick and Sarah express their admiration for Bonnie's work, emphasizing how her casting decisions played a crucial role in the show's success.

• Patrick J. Adams (04:20): "I love this podcast. It's my little escape every morning on the way to work and on the way home."

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4. Bonnie's Journey to Casting

Bonnie shares her journey into casting, detailing how she transitioned from her early career struggles to becoming a revered casting director.

• Bonnie Zane (06:07): "I moved out here directly out of college, and I went to college with a film and radio major."

• Patrick J. Adams (07:30): "I used to always sit down with her and say, what are you doing? And I would make my own lists for her. And she says, you have a knack for this."

Her initial foray into casting began with a temporary position that swiftly turned into a long-term role, leading to opportunities on shows like "Mad About You" and "NewsRadio."

• Patrick J. Adams (08:43): "And then one week later, I got a call from Larry Charles, who said, Mark Hirschfeld just recommended you for a position on 'Mad About You.'"

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5. The Casting Process for Key Characters

Bonnie delves into the casting specifics for pivotal characters in "Suits," sharing anecdotes about auditions and decision-making.

Casting Mike Ross and Harvey Specter

• Patrick J. Adams (20:04): "Yeah, right away. And I think you know this right away. The first person that Gail Pillsbury said for Mike Ross was Patrick J."

Their immediate recognition of the right actors for Mike and Harvey set the tone for the show's dynamic.

• Bonnie Zane (21:05): "How did you know, though? How do you know Gabriel are going to have it?"

Rick Hoffman as Louis Litt

Rick Hoffman's audition stood out significantly, showcasing his unique talent and securing his role as Louis Litt.

• Patrick J. Adams (25:55): "I knew Rick as an actor, and for that role, he absolutely brought Louis Litt into the room."

• Bonnie Zane (25:36): "Rick's audition was nothing short of extraordinary."

Abby Spencer and Wendell Pierce

Abby Spencer and Wendell Pierce's casting further enriched the ensemble, each bringing their distinct flair to their respective roles.

• Patrick J. Adams (49:45): "Abby Spencer's story was she was working on Mad Men, and Aaron knew her and loved her."

• Patrick J. Adams (50:43): "Wendell was a dream. Aaron called me and said the writers room would love it to be Wendell Pierce."

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6. Audition Anecdotes and Insights

The discussion sheds light on the emotional and technical aspects of casting, highlighting moments of spontaneity and deep understanding between casting directors and actors.

• Patrick J. Adams (13:48): "We walked out of there afterwards and we were, like, just holding each other."

• Bonnie Zane (14:43): "Do you ever swear at us? Do you ever?"

The hosts recount their personal experiences during auditions, emphasizing the support and camaraderie that Bonnie fosters during the casting process.

• Sarah Rafferty (29:09): "And Lily wasn't having it. She was like, mom, you can't do that. It's against the law."

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7. Transitioning to "Suits LA"

Bonnie provides insights into the transition from the original "Suits" series to the upcoming spin-off, "Suits LA," discussing the challenges and excitement of assembling a new ensemble while maintaining the show's essence.

• Patrick J. Adams (52:40): "It's been a hard, hard time for everyone... This was the perfect time, place, energy."

• Bonnie Zane (53:47): "Shooting in LA and the differences there."

The conversation highlights the continuity and evolution of the show's universe, ensuring that "Suits LA" retains the charm and depth of its predecessor while introducing fresh dynamics.

• Patrick J. Adams (55:24): "We're casting... we have to think about the weight of the character."

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8. Conclusion and Reflections

As the episode wraps up, Patrick and Sarah express their deep gratitude towards Bonnie Zane for her invaluable contributions to "Suits." They reflect on the importance of luck, timing, and the right connections in creating a successful ensemble.

• Patrick J. Adams (57:27): "Because one person could be off doing something and just not being there for their audition."

• Sarah Rafferty (57:38): "We're so grateful to you for coming in today."

Bonnie Zane leaves the conversation with a heartfelt thanks, emphasizing the collaborative spirit that defines the casting process for "Suits."

• Bonnie Zane (57:46): "Thank you for choosing the direction. Very different."

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Notable Quotes

• Bonnie Zane (03:33): "Bonnie has won every award that I can give her."

• Patrick J. Adams (10:16): "If I get a pilot, for instance, and they say, you're going to cast this pilot, I always test myself with the first person I think of if they're going to get the role or not."

• Sarah Rafferty (38:07): "I was like, I really wanted to make sure that Donna wasn't somebody that was pining for Harvey, but that was a choice that I only made after I got the pineapple."

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rare glimpse into the behind-the-scenes magic of casting "Suits," highlighting Bonnie Zane's pivotal role in assembling an ensemble that resonated with audiences worldwide. Through heartfelt anecdotes and professional insights, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the meticulous and intuitive process that brought "Suits" to life.

For fans and aspiring casting directors alike, Bonnie Zane's expertise and passion serve as an inspiring testament to the art of casting in television.

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Disclaimer: This summary excludes advertisement segments and focuses solely on the podcast's content to provide a comprehensive overview of the episode's key discussions and insights.

Transcript

[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Bonnie Zane]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

Contact us before canceling entire account to.

[Bonnie Zane]

Continue bill credits or credit stop and balance and required finance agreement is due. I was about to start pressing these buttons like I knew what they did. Hold on, let me get my hi, I'm Patrick Adams. You may know me as Mike Ross from the show Suits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I'm Sarah Rafferty. And you may know me as Donna Paulson on Suits.

[Bonnie Zane]

And this is Sidebar a Suits Rewatch podcast. Or actually a Suits Watch podcast because Sarah and I have never actually watched the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But we are taking a break this week from watching a new episode to do something really, really, really especially special. So special, Patrick, can you please do the honors?

[Bonnie Zane]

Of course I can. Today we are honored to be talking with a casting powerhouse, Bonnie Zane. With a career spanning more than three decades, Bonnie is one of the most respected casting directors in the business, known for her exceptional ability to bring together some iconic television ensembles, Bonnie's work has left a lasting impact across genres that word genres, genres, genres. She helped shape the cast of. Are you ready for it?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm ready.

[Bonnie Zane]

Mad about you News, Radio, Sports Night, Ed and then in cahoots with her longtime partner, Gail Pillsbury. She did a show Close to My Heart, Pretty Little Liars, and then of course, she was the casting director for this show that we're here to talk about. Suits. Bonnie was the person who saw the potential in our original cast and brought together a group of actors who had the chemistry, depth and connection that helped carry suits through nine memorable seasons and 134 episodes. She also presided over the spin off Pearson and the upcoming Suits la. Now we have some fast facts from her firm's best researcher. Kristen. How many primetime Emmy awards do you think Bonnie's been nominated for?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think Bonnie has been nominated for two primetime Emmy awards.

[Bonnie Zane]

That's cause it's right in front of you and it's written down. She won two ARDIOS awards. Do you know what the RDOS awards are?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think she's won all the awards.

[Bonnie Zane]

How many RDOS awards have you won?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Bonnie has won every award that I can give her.

[Bonnie Zane]

Well, as far as the Arios awards goes, she's won two. She's had 10 nominations, and they are the holy grail of casting awards. From the Casting Society of America, Rachel Zane is named after Bonnie Zane. And Bonnie's sister Deborah is also a phenomenal casting director here in town. So today we are thrilled to dive into her journey, explore the art and intuition behind the casting process, and thank her endlessly for giving us the jobs that have changed our lives forever. Bonnie Zane, welcome to Sidebar.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yay. Hi, Bonnie.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We left out the part where she's one of our dearest, dearest friends and a fan.

[Bonnie Zane]

Apparently. She said that she's been listening to the podcast, that it's been.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, she's our cheerleader. We get texts cheerleading us.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love this podcast.

[Bonnie Zane]

Thank you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I have. It's my little escape every morning on the way to work and on the way home.

[Bonnie Zane]

What? And on your way to work means on your way to work on a new Suits show. So that's got to be interesting. Which we are going to get into. Thank you so much. You have been the guests that we have been talking about bringing on since day one after Aaron. So thank you so much for being here.

[Patrick J. Adams]

When I listen, I talk to the radio in my car, I'm like, no, you have to get. You have to tell them this too. Little tidbits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my gosh. Do you ever swear at us? Do you ever.

[Bonnie Zane]

Do we get it wrong? How many are we getting wrong?

[Sarah Rafferty]

How much are we getting? How much stuff are we getting wrong?

[Bonnie Zane]

We're getting it right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's not wrong. It's just omissions that I want to add in. Like, you'll mention an actor and I'm like, well, I need to tell you this. I did, like, how many times Aaron was bleeped? I think he holds the record so far.

[Bonnie Zane]

We have talked already. We haven't even had this conversation. But we know and want you to be such an important part of this podcast. So from here on out, anytime you have the thought of an upcoming episode where you have some story you want to tell, you're going to drop it in a.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We were. Yes. We were wondering if we could, like, have a Bonnie segment.

[Bonnie Zane]

Bonnie moment. Tell us about the guest stars in.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This episode that are coming up. You know, and the stories of that and then how you thought of them and all those things that you told me that one time when we were sitting in the car for hours when I wouldn't let you out of the car, when I was driving you home and you were regaling me with amazing stories.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's right. I forgot my notebook.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, it's all in.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's all in here.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's okay.

[Bonnie Zane]

You're gonna come back.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's all in here. Yes. Whenever you have a casting question, I am on the red phone.

[Bonnie Zane]

Is it rare? We want to go back and talk about, like, how you got into it and what casting means to you and why. But, like, is it rare to be on the entirety of a seats of a show the way you were on suits for 134 episodes? Or is that pretty common that a casting director would stick it out for the whole time?

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's pretty common, but there are circumstances in which it wouldn't happen. But I love the beginning to end runs because there's. You get to watch the evolution of every single thing. I mean, the actors, the stories. You all become this big old family.

[Bonnie Zane]

And, you know, like. Yeah. And you know, what's happened in episodes past? You know, what we've already tried maybe this new color. I mean, it seems like you and Erin were.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Mind melding in all kinds of ways.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We really. Very in sync with taste.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so let's walk it back a little bit because, Bonnie, I am really curious. I have never really asked you this. How did you become a casting director? Can you kind of define first of exactly what a casting director is, just in case people don't know what we're talking about? And then what was your journey?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I had a very circuitous route. A casting director for television purposes is putting anyone who speaks on screen onto the show. So it's a process from beginning to end. In our case, from the pilot to the finale, every speaking role between me and Tina, my colleague in Toronto, the two of us worked together for the entire run of the series. And between the two of us, we put everyone on the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I wonder. Gosh, I wonder how many people that is actually, if you did the math on that. But math is hard, so we'll move on. Can I go back? So how did you become a casting director?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, so I moved out here directly out of college, and I went to college with a film and radio major.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Tv, radio. And thought I was gonna be a writer. I moved out here cold and struggled and worked in a gym and waited tables and did appearances on game shows to make extra cash. Oh, yeah.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yes. Did you win any?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I did. There was one called Win, Lose or Draw, which was Pictionary.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Bonnie Zane]

Nice. So you're in town, you're just trying to figure out.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She fell into casting, and I used to always sit down with her and say, what are you doing? And I would make my own lists for her. And she says, you have a knack for this. So when I was out of work, she heard of a position opening at Lieberman Hirschfeld, which was back then, a huge casting office with Meg Lieberman and Mark Hirschfeld, my forever mentors. And she called them, and she says, look, my sister has no experience, but you need someone to answer the phones for a few weeks. So they hired me for three weeks, and it turned in three years. And when I left there, Mark graciously gave me newsradio to leave with. I had been on news radio from the pilot, and he gave me. He gifted me the show. Wow.

[Bonnie Zane]

Wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So it was a very special thing. And then one week later, I got a call from Larry Charles, who said, mark Hirschfeld just recommended you for a position on Mad about yout. So within a month of me being an independent casting director, I had Mad about yout and newsradio. So.

[Bonnie Zane]

And for anyone who's young and doesn't know, these shows are amazing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

My ctv amazing.

[Bonnie Zane]

And, like, the ensembles on these shows are the whole thing. I mean, Newsradio. Give me a break. Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Incredible. And can I just ask what your sister saw that you described as your knack? What was the knack that your sister zeroed in on?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Because the way she puts it is you could turn your entire life time of watching television into a career.

[Bonnie Zane]

What do you love about what you do? I mean, I know there's so many things. So many things get into them. But, like, what keeps you. What keeps you excited?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love actors as. As we feel, as everyone knows. I love actors. I love working with actors. I love. That's what I miss the most during remote times was not being in the room and working in that tactile thing.

[Bonnie Zane]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love actors. I love the evolution from page to screen. It's so much fun. Like, I'll. I've always tested myself from the beginning. When I read a script. If I get a pilot, for instance, and they say, you're going to cast this pilot, I always test myself with the first person I think of if they're going to get the role or not.

[Bonnie Zane]

Interesting. And how often does it pan out? What's your batting average?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't have a great batting average, but there are. But the big ones are the big ones. I remember Sports Night was a big one for me, and that had to be kind of sculpted in a way to make it work.

[Bonnie Zane]

Now, Sports Night is Aaron Sorkin.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It was Aaron Sorkin's first television show.

[Bonnie Zane]

Which, again, another person known for these epic ensembles. And that's his first TV show. So that must have been an amazing experience.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It was a really interesting experience. Yeah.

[Bonnie Zane]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And he likes to read with the actors so they could keep up the Sorkin pace.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oof.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wow. And you like to read with the actors. So, Patrick, I haven't told you this, but I have so many memories of, like, clippity clopping in my shoes up to my heels or whatever I was wearing up to your bungalow on Larchmont. And thank you, by the way, for continuing to call me in year after year, time after time. And I always loved coming to audition for you because you read with me now. Is that something that you try to always do?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And do you feel something when you're reading with an actor that helps you do the casting process?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, absolutely. Because you want them to have to me, you know, let's talk suits. I know the tone, I know the pacing. I know Aaron's words, which is not normal. And I'm able to kind of help them along with that. And I literally. Aaron and I have jokes. He's like, I wish they would say it like you, but perfect.

[Bonnie Zane]

But you know it. You've been doing it over and over again.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I could, you know, off screen, I have no problem playing Louis Litt or Mike Ross because I love to see her.

[Bonnie Zane]

Louis Litt.

[Sarah Rafferty]

There's no character I would love to see more.

[Bonnie Zane]

We'll get There. We'll get there. It seems like your superpower, of which you have many. But one of them is that the shows you cast sort of are these, what might be called dramedies, where hour long, sometimes you've done half hour, obviously. But these shows that are also longer but also aren't afraid to be funny. Like, there's a comedy thing that you seem to have dialed into, but it doesn't have to be just pure comedy, pure laughs. Like, you managed to do both.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Great.

[Bonnie Zane]

Can you talk a bit about that and how you feel like you kind of found a home in that world?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, my home for a long time was in sitcoms. I mean, nine years on the Drew Carey show, right?

[Bonnie Zane]

Wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And Mad about yout and News Radio and tons and tons with the wonderful Bruce Helford, who created Drew Carey, did a lot of shows with him. And then this mesh of dramedy started. And my first dramedy was probably Ed, which was a really fun casting process and really crazy casting process. So I actually remember vividly, remember Tom Kavanaugh's screen test for that at cbs. It was a CBS show that they did not pick up. And then NBC picked it up.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But we were in that little dark room at CBS and that test, and we did a very dramatic scene. And so I have, like, one of my memories was it was a breakup scene. And Tom said to me before the scene. Cause I'm just sitting in the chair. I'm not acting with you. I'm just sitting there. He said, when she starts to cry, just put your head down. And I'll take that as the cue that she's crying. Because then he tries to console her. And we're doing the scene and we're really into it, and I just start sobbing.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And that was. We walked out of there afterwards and we were, like, just holding each other.

[Bonnie Zane]

Going, oh, my God, that's so great. Well, I can't say from our side. To have a companion like you just said, Sarah, to have somebody. We've both been in casting offices before where it's just like a wall, you know, for people who don't know, we go into these rooms, we have these pages we've prepared. You sometimes have met the person and have a relationship, but especially early in your career, you don't. And you read these scenes sometimes that are very emotional or you need to be funny. There needs to be a back and forth. There needs to be a rhythm. And you find yourself either reading with a casting assistant or, if you're lucky, A casting director. But even some of the big casting directors, you're just getting nothing. You're getting the driest read. And to go into a room and have someone who's, like, showing up for you and interested and excited and wants to, like, give back, it makes a world of difference.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I would just share that, like, just as a sidebar. Hey, I would like to share a sidebar.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah, give us a sidebar.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

When I got out of school, what.

[Bonnie Zane]

School did you go to again?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Was that Yale? Was that Yale?

[Bonnie Zane]

Wait, I don't know if you know this, Bonnie.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Did you know what I said was school.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Is it in New Haven?

[Sarah Rafferty]

See, I've never said I went to.

[Bonnie Zane]

School, but what school was it again? I forgot.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I went to Hamilton College in upstate New York and then another school, and then after that, I lived in New York.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah, okay, go on.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And a very educational experience for me was. Yeah, I just want the listener to show that. There it is, guys. You're on my side, right? Listener? You're on my side. There it is. I said school, and then they jumped on me.

[Bonnie Zane]

Are they buying ad time on our podcast?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do people not talk about Google?

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah, let's get that figured out.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We're cutting all this, right? And we're cutting all this.

[Bonnie Zane]

What were you going to say? Sidebar?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I was going to say.

[Sarah Rafferty]

All I was going to say was probably the most educational experience for me after I got out of school was that I was hired by the Roundabout Theater Company in New York as a reader. So I was the reader for the entire casting process for Cabaret on Broadway with Sam Mendes. And as when we were months into it, he had me sit next to him at the table so that he could be right in the eye line of the actors. And every time they left, he would say, how did that feel for you to me to, like, the gun for hire? And we would talk about it. And he really was looking for that visceral response and trying to get as close to it as he could without being the one. I think it would have been very intimidating to read with Sam Mendes if you were auditioning for that. And that walking into your office. I always knew when I was leaving that I was gonna come out with a little gift of, like, having been an actor and having been connected and having experienced something, whether or not I was gonna get the thing or not.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, if you look at it like your time in that room is the one time you definitely have the part.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, I love that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The part is yours.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sarah, you know we're going into the holidays and there's no more important time to talk about gratitude.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Look, I was so grateful last week when I was struggling with being away. We were both away on set and we had a nice phone call and you helped me get reconnected with my gratitude.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah. I think it's so important in my life to practice gratitude as much as possible because sometimes life can get pretty heavy and it's the quickest way out of that slump. That's why we're so happy that the show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, this month is all about gratitude. And you know what I want to say to you, Sarah, is thank you. It's been such a pleasure getting to do this with you. And I know we've talked a lot about mental health, but it's really helpful with us both away shooting away from our families to have someone to talk to through it. So I want to say thank you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, thank you, Patrick. I'm so grateful for you too, as you know.

[Bonnie Zane]

But there is one other person that we don't thank enough, and that is ourselves. Sometimes it's hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense out of everything. And in this crazy world, well, that's just not that easy. So here's a reminder to all of you to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, please give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.comsidebarshow today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L P.com Sidebarshow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Bonnie Zane]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Bonnie Zane]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Bonnie Zane]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Bonnie Zane]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so we should get into suits. We should really get into the process of suits. What was. What was Patrick's audition?

[Bonnie Zane]

How good am I? How good am I? Let's just talk about me. No, I want to. I. Let's talk about how it started with suits. You had that meeting. You had that lunch with them. How do you immediately get to know the energy of an Aaron Korsh? Like, it seems like a big part of your job is, like, starting to get simpatico and get on the same page as the showrunner. How do you do that? How quickly did it happen with Aaron in the process? As soon as you sat down. Did you already start rolodexing the names of people you wanted to bring in?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, right away. And I think you know this right away. The first person that Gail Pillsbury said for Mike Ross was Patrick J.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No way.

[Bonnie Zane]

I was the first name. I didn't know that. Actually, I think I forgot.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Gail and I had this. That was her first name and her first. The first name for Pretty Little Liars was me telling her, try in.

[Bonnie Zane]

Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Amazing. You guys are geniuses.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We are.

[Bonnie Zane]

And we owe you a lot. I feel like every year there should be.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Every year there should be a Christmas.

[Bonnie Zane]

Bathroom more than we are.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It takes some time to get into the groove with a new producer. Oftentimes casting directors work with the same showrunners. So it's like a shorthand when you jump right in. But you're learning, and it was a lot to learn. It was a lot of parts. We started with Mike and Harvey right away, and it was trial and error. Trial. And we would just get through. We did the Mike scenes. Was the I'm gonna knock me into a different life.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yep. And that's the scene I remember. I actually don't remember. Oh, I think we did. We do the. We did the Rachel Zane scene.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We did the Rachel Zane scene.

[Bonnie Zane]

I love you scene.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The I love you scene.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah. Was that it? You think it was?

[Patrick J. Adams]

That was those. I think those were the two scenes. Now, Harvey, we did the last minute bad faith.

[Bonnie Zane]

Right. But What I'm curious about is the Harvey versus Mike. Right? @ the time, I'm fairly unknown. I had done some stuff. I think I'd just been fired, as we talked about on this podcast, from another show. So it's not like my career is a shooting star, but you had the ability to think of me for that role. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Was the Harvey a different approach? Was it like, you know, this guy has to be the coolest guy in any room he's in? I imagine that's not the easiest role to cast. Is that. Are you going in straight to offers? Was Aaron explicit that he needed to audition with people? What was that process like?

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a dual process. So you do go, you have your list, your offers only, your laundry list you make. And that gets divided into who will read, who's offer only who is not available. But Aaron, like most producers, wants to hear the words. And so we're still bringing gentlemen into the room every day and reading them and going through it and, you know, it's a lot to wrap your mouths around. And then it's also looking at the pairing and looking at what's gonna make the right Batman and Robin.

[Bonnie Zane]

Well, that's what I'm interested about, finding the pairing. Because we've talked about before. We never read together. Gabriel and I never met before. We were both cast in this process, which is pretty remarkable and a testament to you and Aaron doing, you know, knowing that there was something that would happen there without actually having seen it. Can you talk a little bit about why Gabriel and I maybe would never have gotten up in front of people?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, you were cast first of the entire ensemble, so you were the first piece of casting. And from what I remember, we couldn't get you and Gabriel in the same room for. I wanna say it might've been scheduling.

[Bonnie Zane]

Cause I refused to be with Gabriel.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Because you said absolutely not.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah, I will not read at that time. Sorry. No, it was just a scheduling thing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And he' I seem to remember it was. And I remember. I remember everyone's read distinctly. Like, I remember every single person's read.

[Bonnie Zane]

How did you know, though? How do you know Gabriel are going to have it? Or is it just we just hope for the cast, the right people and hope for the best.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Hope for magic, right? Yeah.

[Bonnie Zane]

Did it make it take much convince? This is. This might get weird, ask these questions. Did it take much conviction? Again, I was not. I was not a name or face that anybody could like, sell a show on. Was that a tough process at All. Or was it pretty clear from the beginning? Because I know how I felt going in. Having been fired from this job. I just sort of felt like I had nothing to lose. I felt very. Like, it just made sense to me. And I remember feeling more confident than I normally would because I'd been through the wringer. Do you remember a sense of like, no, this is clearly the guy. And, like, we just kind of kept doing it over and over. It wasn't a struggle.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It wasn't a struggle. And I do think the blessing of being on USA Network at that time during the Blue sky days was they didn't have that mandate. You didn't need to be a huge star to carry a show. And I also wanna say show of hands, who's been fired from a job?

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah, right here. Let's do it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay.

[Bonnie Zane]

We got all the hands in the booth.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So. Yeah, of course, you.

[Bonnie Zane]

That was the best thing that ever happened to me, in a way, because it really prepared me for this process, which was to come in and just be like, what's the worst that can happen? I just had it happen. So let's go. Which I think I needed for Mike.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Is it true that thing that we hear that you. Those first minutes of walking into a room back in the day, when we walked into rooms like that, you kind of know quickly, like somebody comes in with a special sauce.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think a star quality, the X Factor is there, and it's that undescribable component.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We call it Torres. We call it Gina Torres.

[Bonnie Zane]

Torres. We won't.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Even if you want me to talk about Gina, you gotta give me another hour on the show. The love of my life. I think there's that. That you feel it. But, you know, that is mostly, you know, it's a gut thing. It is a gut thing. But then there's people that will surprise you. You don't see it coming. Rick Hoffman, you did not see that performance coming.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let's talk about that. I really wanna ask about Rick's audition. If I could be a fly on the wall, I would like. If I could get you drunk. Can I see Rick's audition? Can you show it to. But was it amazing? I mean, like, how incredible was it? How much did it surprise you?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I knew Rick as an actor, and for that. For Louis Litt, we tried every type of actor. I mean, the guys he tested against for that role, there was no similarity besides the fact that they were all wonderful actors. But he absolutely brought Louis Litt into the room. The only other time that has happened to me was Steven Root in newsradio, where he literally created Jimmy James in his audition to the point where I remember I was a casting assistant, and I think I might have been behind a big old camera. And I went like this because it was otherworldly. There was nothing you ever had seen before in that part. Same sides, same scenes. And so Rick, when he sat down. And I remember, like, I remember where we were sitting in the room we were in over at Tribeca on the west side. And I just remember that moment. I'm going. And I'm sitting and the camera's behind me, but I remember going, oh, my God, this is. It was crazy. And the one.

[Bonnie Zane]

And were you alone? Aaron's not there yet.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, Aaron was there.

[Bonnie Zane]

We were all there.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We all were there.

[Bonnie Zane]

Did everybody have the same reaction?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, Aaron and I have a joke to this day, because the line. It was the firing scene where he's.

[Bonnie Zane]

Firing somebody in front of Mike just to scare Mike.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yes.

[Bonnie Zane]

Great scene.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And the last line of that scene is, welcome to Pearson Hardman. But Rick, like many of the guys, delivered it, welcome to Pearson Hardman. Like, your name was Hardman. And so Aaron and I to this day will always randomly say lines from the pilot. And that's one of the two we say the most is welcome to Pearson Hardman. And the other is that is last minute bad faith bullshit, which is my favorite line.

[Bonnie Zane]

That's so good. So. So, yeah, I mean, Rick. We have a love fest for Rick in here. Just because every episode we're learning, like, just how brilliant. We knew how brilliant it was. We had front row seats. But just watching it in context of the show. But you're right, it's something totally different. That's when you're just looking for a quality that you can't even quite name until you see it. Yeah, right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And he just brought it. And it was. It was undeniable. And it's funny because I think back to all these auditions. Cause like I said, I do remember them all. And that to me, I just. And then I went back with the rest of the world a couple of summers ago and watched the whole series on Netflix.

[Bonnie Zane]

Wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I go, oh, my God, these are really good actors.

[Bonnie Zane]

That's how we're feeling about the whole show.

[Patrick J. Adams]

About the whole show. And my daughter watched it for the first time and she had, you know, she grew up like your kids, that she grew up as a little one. And then she sat down and watched it as a series. And it was just such an interesting thing to Watch her, you know, having visited the set and knowing you people as her friends, and then suddenly she's watching this. So she had a lot to say.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We were on the plane with Lily after season two. We were coming home, and Iris was still like a little breastfeeding baby. And I was so tired. And you held Iris the entire time going home from Toronto to Los Angeles, and Lily wasn't having it.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, she bad.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She's like I said. I jokingly said, oh, my God, I'm gonna keep this baby. And she says, mom, you can't do that. It's against the law. And you were up front with Charlie. I remember.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, my God. We were all together. We were all on this flight. I also forgot that was my baby. Charlie, he didn't like anything.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yes.

[Bonnie Zane]

Charlie was an angry boy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So when people are in the testing process, which is. So you've done. You've done the first audition, you've done the callbacks, and then they're testing, so it's down to three to five people. Does that. Do you get more nervous just like the actors get more nervous when that's happening for you? Like, what's the experience like for you?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, my God. I want everyone to do so well. I mean, we're a team at this point. We've been doing this for so long now. Look, there are times when tests don't work, and it's just. You're back to the drawing board. We tested probably a dozen women for Rachel at least, if not more.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I kept going back to the drawing board before we got to our final round with Megan. And there is. No one wants that. It's not like that, like leaving the room at usa. It was not. Ha ha, ha. She had to go back to the drawing board. It was never that. It was okay, what can we all do now?

[Bonnie Zane]

What are we missing?

[Patrick J. Adams]

What are we missing? And it was immediately Stephen and Brad De Lima sitting down with me going, who have we missed? What have we missed? Immediately Kevin Bray jumping in with, you know, literally saying, you need. We need to try this. Meghan Markle, who I was familiar with, but not as familiar with as Kevin was. And Kevin was the one who says, let's do it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How did Kevin know her?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Kevin had met her on something in passing.

[Bonnie Zane]

I had worked with her too. So when I showed up to that day, I didn't know who I was reading with. And part of. I think why the chemistry was great is we knew each other. There was a familiarity.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Your chemistry was great with everyone. You really did have in the last round of women. Because I actually reviewed all that tapes. I went to.

[Bonnie Zane]

Do you have all of this?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I have all of this.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And it was. And it was all different. You know, Christina, who then went on to be the therapist.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, right. Most people might not know that she tested for Rachel.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She tested for Rachel. And it was a great. It was a great read.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And Amanda Scholl said she auditioned for Rachel.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Amanda auditioned for a few parts.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Amazing.

[Bonnie Zane]

That's a good example of someone just continuously doing the work and you know it's gonna fit somewhere and you just have to wait and find the right part.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What about, like a Rachel Harris? What did she.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That was Aaron. Aaron wanted Rachel for Sheila. He just said, this part is for Rachel.

[Bonnie Zane]

So cool.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And it was great. Yeah, it was. He. I think he doulay as well. I mean, he had a part in mind. Katie Heigl. These were people that didn't go through the process. And being that Rachel and Jessica were the last roles to be cast, we also were now creating the palette.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So that was part of the discussion as well. Like, what pieces of the puzzle are gonna make this feel more complete? And. Yeah, that. I mean, all the women at that point that you had been reading with were just so. The performances were so wonderful and elevated.

[Bonnie Zane]

All would be great.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And few of them. Jenny Mullen got cast as another character.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I just saw her.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, my God. And I totally forgot that she auditioned for Rachel.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Bonnie Zane]

Wow. Great.

[Patrick J. Adams]

See, she never lets me forget it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, that's so funny. I do think it's important to say again, I do this all the time. If there are young actors listening, that room when you walk out, it's usually very supportive. And if you don't get the part, much of the time is that you did a great job, but you were saying it. What didn't work in the palette. And that's what I experienced when I was a reader. And I was a reader for many other things while I was in New York. It's one of the ways that I like, I waited tables and was a reader and it was really, really healthy thing to do because I learned that I could see an unbelievable performance and that there was no way that person was getting that part. Only because they weren't right. They weren't exactly right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I was having this conversation this morning because we on the new suits, we're adding a bad guy prosecutor and this woman who Red was so great, and we all loved her. And I was talking to Aaron about it, and he said, oh, no, she's great. He explained to me why she wasn't right for this role. And I actually got to say to her reps, I said, look, you know how much I love her and value her, but this is not her part. Nothing has to do with performance. So when you pass the notes on to her, she should know she gave the best read. And it has nothing to do with that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Does it pain you when people. Because let's say three people go in to tests and only one obviously walks out. I think that leaves two that don't get the part. Does it pain you? Does it pain you that they didn't get it? Like, what do you do?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think about. I think about what I owe them for their next role.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, that's lovely.

[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Bonnie Zane]

Four lines via virtual prepaid card.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit.

[Bonnie Zane]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

With lime and cranberry would change everything.

[Bonnie Zane]

This bottle knew about happy hour from the producers of America's favorite vodka. It turns out the cocktail you've been waiting for was right there the whole time. The Tito's ROM Cosmo. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll sip. With Tito's coming to cocktail parties near you at Tito's vodka, 40% alcohol by volume, namely 80 proof. Crafted to be savored responsibly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How many people auditioned for each role, roughly, would you say? Like, how many people did you see for the pilot? Yes. And for the. For the series, regular roles, like, how many people are you?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Around 300.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Per role?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Even for, like, Donna?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Huh?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Did you see people in person for Donna?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I did start. Cause I remember, like, Rhea Seehorn auditioned. I remember this day. I had, like one day of Donna's, and then it was, we gotta make this out of New York. It has to be a local hire. So they just kind of shut me down. And then it was. It had to be New York. So the tapes went there. I filtered them because I was uploading them and curating them on the on our website that. Where we review them. So I did get to see yours.

[Bonnie Zane]

I think this would be a good place to. I think you've brought something for us. Bonnie has brought with her Dear Listener, our auditions. Sarah, I don't know if you're prepared for this, mentally or emotionally. I've never seen it. She texted it to us earlier this week. We both did not watch it, which is funny. We both independently were like, thanks so much, and did not watch it. And then we thought this might be while deeply uncomfortable, cathartic. Cool thing to do together. So do you want to start with yours? Do you want to start with mine? You show me mine.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What would you like to do? Mine.

[Bonnie Zane]

I'll show you mine. Let's watch yours first, and then we'll see if we have time for mine.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my God. Look at my hair. Oh, my God. Look at my face. What are you looking for?

[Bonnie Zane]

I gotta work with this guy a long time. I've got to understand him, relate to.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Him, and trust him.

[Bonnie Zane]

Which means I'm looking for another me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Got it. Witty, charming, ballsy, thinks he's the smartest guy in the room. That's why I love you. So what gives you the nerve to think that we're gonna let the whitest guy I've ever seen interview for our firm?

[Bonnie Zane]

I have an appointment.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Rick Sorkin. Mr. Sorkin, you're five minutes late. Do you have a reason I should give you an interview?

[Bonnie Zane]

I don't care if you give me an interview or not. I'm dissing the cops.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Don. I need the.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, also, I didn't get a chance to married you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, I took care of that, too. We've been married for the last seven years. Ooh, what does that mean?

[Bonnie Zane]

She added the breath.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What does that mean?

[Bonnie Zane]

What a stunner. First of all, I mean, still stunner, but God, baby. Yes, baby. I want your. I want a pure, initial, emotional. Just give it to us. What are you thinking? What are you feeling? Give us the raw.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm in. Freeze. I'm in. Freeze.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. I. Oh, gosh, my heart hurts a little bit. God, I was young once. This is, like, the only time I'm gonna go. Yeah, I'd give that girl that part.

[Bonnie Zane]

Nice. Yes, 100%. I'm glad that's your reaction. Cause that's how I'm feeling. I was like, is that. Be honest. Was that how you guys felt? You saw that tape, But I didn't.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Get to see everybody else's. I didn't see what I was up Against. Against.

[Bonnie Zane]

We're gonna. Well, surprise. We're gonna watch all three.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But. But I've never say that. I, I. Bonnie knows I never say that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I know, I know. I loved the nonverbal. Why were you sighing?

[Bonnie Zane]

That's great. So she left. This is good. Left an impression. Like, at the end, there was like a. Oh, I want more.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You just created, like, a whole back story and front story.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And there wasn't a lot to do for Donna in that audition because there wasn't a lot in the pilot for Donna.

[Bonnie Zane]

There wasn't a lot in the first season. And you took it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You took it. Right? And you took that. And the mistake that actors make is, okay, I only have five pages. I only have three pages. I gotta make a meal. And you just kind of laid it out there for what it was. Simple.

[Bonnie Zane]

Great.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And that's probably what sparked the initial interest.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's like, oh, it is. You know, it triggers in me, actually, that I'd had so many conversations with Santu about quitting. Right?

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And that this was the thing that I was like, yeah, I'll just go. I'll fly myself to New York. I'll get the Airbnb. Let me give it a shot. It's not working the usual way with the testing, the run it up the flagpole. The pilots aren't getting picked up. The thing isn't happening. So let's try it this way.

[Bonnie Zane]

I'm glad you tried it. I'm glad you tried. Thank you for being.

[Sarah Rafferty]

There's many ways to. You know, I don't want to say skin a cat, but, you know, you skin cats.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's a whole other podcast.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And also that moment at the end, I was curious, just seeing it, like, oh. And now I realize, Patrick, it's funny. We talked about this just a couple of weeks ago that I was like, I really wanted to make sure that Donna wasn't somebody that was pining for Harvey, but that was a choice that I only made after I got the pineapple.

[Bonnie Zane]

You felt the pine here. That was a piece of encouragement to pine.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, that was a like.

[Bonnie Zane]

But I think, like, actually one of those things that in an audition, it's useful because it is. It's indicating there is more story here to tell. Then you get into the nuance of, like, well, now we have a whole show. I don't want to do it right off the bat. You know what I mean? Like, it's useful here.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a choice. You make a choice.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Something to say, like, huh, there's something more to this character.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah, totally. I would have cast you. You got the part.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I would cast you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You did cast me, Bonnie.

[Bonnie Zane]

Anyway, moving on. We don't need to watch anything else.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Here we go.

[Bonnie Zane]

We've run out of time. Thank you so much. Oh, boy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, look at your suit.

[Bonnie Zane]

I bought this suit just for this audition. I still have it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wow. You invested in this?

[Bonnie Zane]

It does not fit. Not even close. But I remember I went and spent, like, a good amount of money on a suit. I was like. And I did not have money to spend, but I was like, I need real life, grown up suit. All right, well, I guess I gotta go to the bathroom, though. I'll let you guys go. What if I told you that I consume knowledge like no one you've ever met and I've actually passed the bar?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Mm. Okay, hotshot, fire up that laptop. I'll show you what a Harvard attorney can do. That is my database of every legal issue in existence. Pick one.

[Bonnie Zane]

Stock option Backdating.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Although backdating options is legal, violations arise related to the disclosures under both FASB 12 and Internal Revenue Code section 409A.

[Bonnie Zane]

You forgot about the Sarbanes Oxley act of 02.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Statute limitations render Sarbanes Oxley moot post 2007.

[Bonnie Zane]

Not if you can find actions to cover up the violation as established in the 6th Circuit, May 2008.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's impressive. But you're at a computer.

[Bonnie Zane]

I'm playing hearts. If you want to beat me, you're gonna have to do it at something else. I'm sorry.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You want this job?

[Bonnie Zane]

When I was in college, it was my dream to be a lawyer. My grandmother needed some money, and Trevor convinced me to memorize this math test and sell it. Turns out that we sold it to the dean's daughter. I lost my scholarship, got tossed out of school. I got knocked into a different life. I've been wishing for a way back ever since.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm inclined to give you a shot. But what if I decide to go another way?

[Bonnie Zane]

I'd say that's fine. Sometimes I like to hang out with people who aren't that bright, too. And just to see how the other half went right into it. Oh, God.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Hi.

[Bonnie Zane]

Mike Ross.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We've been expecting you. I'm Rachel Lane, paralegal. I'll be giving you your orientation.

[Bonnie Zane]

Wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You're pretty good. You've hit on me. You can get it out of the way that I'm not interested.

[Bonnie Zane]

No, no, no. I wasn't hitting on you. I have this problem.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Please. I'VE done dozens of these, and without fail, whatever new hotshot it is. Thanks. Because I'm just a paralegal. I'll be blown away by this dazzling degree. Take notes, because I'm not gonna repeat myself.

[Bonnie Zane]

God, they just want to ran into the other.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, we are going into it.

[Bonnie Zane]

The company is fighting the subpoena.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Good, good. Did you think they wouldn't fight back?

[Bonnie Zane]

Well, I.

[Patrick J. Adams]

How did you mention it? My fault. I keep forgetting that you don't actually know anything. The idea is that you make a move, they make a move, and then back and forth until one of you wins.

[Bonnie Zane]

And what if one of them wins the motion and the case gets destroyed?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, then you're not as good as you think you are.

[Bonnie Zane]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm. I'm. I'm. Yeah, I'm sort of speechless. I'm very proud of that little. I am so nervous. And you said you don't see it, and I don't. And I can see that you don't see it. I know how nervous I am.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, you're nervous watching it to your.

[Bonnie Zane]

But I know I'm in that room, and I know I'm like, that part of the gig is looking not nervous when you are actually super terrified. And that's fun to watch. That's fun to watch. How you're pretty good at burying.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But also, it's fueling your auditions, fueling the performance. So you use it.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yes, I'm using it. Rather than trying to deny it, I'm, like, embracing that. He would be nervous too, but he's also determined to get this job. And I've talked about it before. I can see that thing that I'm doing where I'm like, I can just ask this room full of people for this job the same way that Mike's asking Harvey for the job. Yeah. It's wild. Wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Bonnie Zane]

Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Would you cast him?

[Bonnie Zane]

I would cast him.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He was cast immediately after that was it.

[Bonnie Zane]

What happened? I walked out of that room. What happens?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, we're done. Yeah.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, God, that's great. Why doesn't that happen every day?

[Sarah Rafferty]

What's the notebook that you keep referring to?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, for each show I do, I keep a binder, so that has all of the audition sheets. So who came in? And my notes. And, you know, I went back to my Ed audition book randomly with my showrunner one day, decades later, and we were looking at the people who auditioned for the role of Ed, and it was astounding. Steve Carell. I mean, like, when we closed our office, I Had to get rid of so much stuff, and I knew I had to save certain ones, and I had to save my suits pilot because there was so much. There was so much meat on that bone, you know?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Should we talk a little bit about the guest cast?

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah, I think that would be a great time. That's enough about us. Let's talk about them. Are there some standouts? Whether they be from the first and this is not a standout. Like, we have so many great actors. We could spend, you know, forever talking about all of them. But are there any standouts either from the first season or from the show entirely where you're just like, kind of just magic happened? I mean, I'm thinking Harold right off the bat, he was not even. We had a little clip from him last week where he talks about how he got cast. And I mean, that was just. It just Canada. Accident after accident. After accident.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, he was up in Canada.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So. Oh, God, there's so many. I love all the Brits. That was so much fun. Yeah, that was a great scene. Oh, I wish I had my notebook. The funny one was Adam Godley.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Speak about him.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love Adam. I mean, I adore Adam as a person, as an actor, and I. Adam.

[Bonnie Zane]

God. Wait, let's stop. For anyone listening. Adam Godley played Rick's nemesis. But what do we know? His name was Nigel. Just want to make sure for suits fans out there. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Lewis's nemesis. And that was season four.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That was our British season was four.

[Bonnie Zane]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So Adam, I knew and I, you know, he's been in everything. All these movies and stuff. And he's so interesting. Just everything about him is so interesting. And I really loved the idea of him. For Nigel, it was not what they were thinking of. And one person I was. You know, we're reading a lot of people, like, from Downton Abbey, because by this time, we had a little bit of momentum and Adam was either in New York or London. And I. We got on the phone before he did his audition, and I sat down on the phone with him. This was, I guess, before, like, we could Skype and zoom. And I pulled up some Louis Litt clips, and I said, this is your nemesis. And I got him to watch Rick and he says, I got this. Oh, nice. He just felt it. Like, he goes, I know exactly what we need to do. And it was just really cool. It was really cool.

[Bonnie Zane]

He's incredible. And a great stage actor.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Another succession actor who.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Succession Breaking suits with their presence. Yeah.

[Bonnie Zane]

And stage, like, just a.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, he got a Tony Nomination for the lame. The Lehman trilogy.

[Bonnie Zane]

Any other parts that jump out at you that you remember from the series?

[Patrick J. Adams]

That costable. David Costable.

[Bonnie Zane]

Amazing. He played Hardman. Of course.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Who else? Who else?

[Sarah Rafferty]

DB Woodside.

[Patrick J. Adams]

DB Auditioned with. With Gina.

[Sarah Rafferty]

With Gina.

[Patrick J. Adams]

With Gina.

[Bonnie Zane]

Which was super fun because Gina came in to read.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We were auditioning. We were home. Everyone was home. And that was gonna be an addition to the cast. So she was in town. So she says, I'll read with the contenders. And there was a couple, and I was reading the Harvey parts, and I just. Cause I love Gina so much, and she knows how much I love her. So I just remember that moment we were standing, like, shoulder to waist, shoulder.

[Sarah Rafferty]

To waist.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Because we wanted to keep DB Properly in frame, so. As opposed to having to shift focus. So I was reading Harvey, she was reading Jessica, And I just remember putting my head against Gina. I just love you so much because she just gives them so much, and she's so. I mean. I mean, we'll just jump around. I remember when my daughter watched the show for the first time, and I remember walking out of the Barbie movie, and she says, you know, Jessica Pearson was the OG Barbie.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I saw Barbie with Gina.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I know. I texted Gina and I said, lily thinks you're the OG Barbie.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So what about, like, some of the names I'm thinking of are. Aloma. Aloma, Right. Wendell Pierce, Abby Spencer.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, so those are all great stories. So Abby Spencer's story was she was working on Mad Men, and Aaron knew her and loved her. And this was before the show had aired. And so he said, let's go after Abby. And I called her, and I said, trust me, I'm gonna send you. I'm gonna slide you some stuff to look at. You gotta take a leap of faith here. God, no. We're not in the air. And she did. And that role grew.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I mean, that was. I don't think they ever intended it to. The legs that role had. There was a Loma Wright who played Gretchen, and when we did that role, we read every shape, size, color, age. I mean, there was such a. I mean, hundreds and hundreds of women from young to old, to character to. Cause he just didn't know who she was gonna be. We knew she wasn't gonna be Donna. We needed a contrast. We had never met Norma to this day. And so Aloma just brought that. And it was really just a beautiful moment because. But he didn't. Aaron doesn't ever have, like, boom. He does like, to marinate in it, which you have to kind of appreciate and allow the process. And he likes to review the tapes and talk about it. And he, he loves talking to the writers. But Aloma was really special. It was just special.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What about Wendell? Wendell Pierce?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wendell was a dream. We had been making lists for Robert Zane and thinking of names. And we auditioned a few actors. And then Aaron called me and said the writers room would love it to be Wendell Pierce. And I was like, who wouldn't love.

[Bonnie Zane]

To be Wendell Pierce?

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I called his agent and she's like, well, that's not a bad idea. He works constantly. My whole life with Wendell and his reps. I had a separate. Basically a whole separate whiteboard in the office. Like dry erase Wendell's schedule. Because he was all over the world.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah, he was shooting Jack Ryan.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Jack Ryan. Then he went to do Death of a Salesman in London and all of these things. And I had to keep track of Wendell to the minute, to the city, to flights from Atlanta, New Orleans, New York. And it was this Rubik's Cube of getting Wendell on the set. And so both Wendell and Abby, Abby Spencer also. And we joke around about this now. I just had lunch with her and we were talking about, oh my God, the scheduling. Love them both. But my God, the scheduling. But yeah, Wendell was quite special. And I still. Wendell sent me a few emails about casting. I think we'd suggest someone. And he always started it. This is Wendell Pierce. I play Robert Zane on Suits. Yes, we know who you are. That's my name too.

[Bonnie Zane]

The best he was. How lucky we were. Well, I think, you know, we don't have a ton of time left, but with the time that we do have left, I'd love to pivot to what you're working on now, which is sue tell a suit la. You're getting texts about it as we speak. What has that been like? What was that transition? How did you feel when you found out it was happening? What's it like to dive back into the world and sort of have to figure out a whole new ensemble, but in the same. Coming from the same man's crazy beautiful.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Mind and with the same crazy beautiful people. I was so excited because this came at a time for all of us. You know, coming off of the pandemic, coming off of the double strike year and just a really hard, hard time for everyone. And sitting down with Aaron and you know, I had read the script. Cause the origin of the script is like. Was kind of unusual too. It wasn't initially Suits la.

[Bonnie Zane]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And then the whole suits phenomenon that Summer and all this stuff that was going on and so many people, like, crawling out of the woodwork of my summer camp in the 70s and high school and talking about watching suits for the first time. I mean, people were just hitting me up everywhere and loving it. And then this comes along and then we get to be live in the room for auditions, which was like, yeah, the best. And at a time when so few actors had opportunities for pilots to. So it was just like the perfect time, place, energy.

[Bonnie Zane]

People are so happy to be there.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And it's. With all the similarities, it's also all the differences. It's a little bit darker of a story. It takes place in la, so there's the differences there.

[Bonnie Zane]

And shoots in la and shoots in la. That never happens anymore.

[Patrick J. Adams]

When I found out we were shooting in la, Bartis called me to tell me in the same conversation that we were shooting locally and that Anton Cropper was going to be joining us as a producing director.

[Bonnie Zane]

Anton Cropper was our producing director for how many seasons?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Three.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Three.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I burst into tears in my car. I just started crying and I said.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And so it's just getting the band back together.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Getting the band back together with all the best and the best writers. I mean, my God, we have all Rick Maraghi and Genevieve and John Cowan. And then we have the murderer's row of directors. All of our favorites are coming back. And it's just. I just have so much joy. And it's gonna be a weirdly built in audience. So we really have to kind of prove ourselves right off the bat.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Would you say the characters are archetypical inside the suits universe? Or would you say they're different and we're gonna be surprised?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, it's funny because I was just talking to Anton after our first table where we have a character, this young girl who's like a junior. A junior attorney. And she is. I love this. I love this actress. And after the table, both Anton and I said, that could be like the Louis Lit. Like there's something unique about her that go to energy. Right. You know, I don't like to do, you know, apples to apples.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, never.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But, you know, we're casting. We're casting a. A nemesis right now. And I said to Aaron, is it Scotty? He goes, no, it's more like Travis Tanner, you know, which we do use.

[Bonnie Zane]

These names as reference points.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. And we're not mimicking it, but we're just using it to get the weight of the character. So it's great. It's really exciting. And I'm excited for it to get on the air. I'm excited to start filming next week.

[Bonnie Zane]

And do you know when it comes to the air? We don't know yet. Do we.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think January or February. I don't know if they have an exhumed exact day. I don't know.

[Bonnie Zane]

But you start. No, nothing official, but then you start. You've started shooting just this week or next week.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You said, well, I'm having this amazing experience watching the show, Bonnie, for the first time, first of all, I mean, Patrick and I are just tickled with watching this show as fans, but also to see who you peopled this universe with. And we're having these moments, these like, fangirling moments, but also a quieter moment of just, wow, we got to be on a show with those people and together in collaboration, this thing was created. So thank you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There's so many elements. Thank you. Because the element of. There's so much that goes into it. And just the element of luck is something you always have to consider because you have to consider. And Aaron doesn't like to be said told no. So if Wendell Pierce is in London or Shy McBride is in Hawaii, that does not matter because they have to be here on this day, and we're gonna make it happen. So the element of luck plays into all of it. Like the right people being available at the right time, which is any ensemble casting. I always talk to Jeff Greenberg about that with Modern Family. Like the fact that these 10 actors were available at the exact same time and put together this perfect ensemble. So that's that element there. Because one person could be off doing something and just not being there for their audition.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And that's why we had all those Saturdays and Sundays when we worked because of Wendell, because of Abigail, because of people's availability, but because Erin didn't say no. And we needed them. We needed them, and it was worth it.

[Bonnie Zane]

Bonnie, Bonnie, we love you so much. We are so grateful to you for coming in today. We hope you're gonna come back and talk to us. Oh, my God.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We both.

[Bonnie Zane]

About this show and about the. As it comes out. Because you were such an important part of the fabric of this show. And like I said before, and I will continue to say every year, thank you for my life.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thank you for choosing the direction.

[Bonnie Zane]

Very different.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You have to call me with casting questions, though. I need to.

[Bonnie Zane]

Yeah, we should. I was thinking we should call it Bonnie's Notebook.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Bonnie's Notebook.

[Bonnie Zane]

Oh, my God. We got Bonnie's Notebook. Bonnie's Binder Yeah, we just get you to go into the Notebook.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Can you just travel with it? Can it just always be in your purse? So if we catch you on the road, you can be like, let me turn the page on the notebook to.

[Bonnie Zane]

The the tightest well of her page.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Exactly.

[Bonnie Zane]

Thank you so much. We love you. Please come back and talk to us more. It's been such a pleasure.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love you guys so much. It's been so much fun.

[Bonnie Zane]

Guys. That's another case closed.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Case closed.

[Bonnie Zane]

Thank you for listening. Thank you again, Bonnie Zane for joining us. And please make sure to rate, review and subscribe. It is one of the easiest ways to support the show and it helps other people find us.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And as always, we want to hear from all of you. If you have questions, please send your emails to sidebar podcasteriousm.com okay Bonnie, see you later. I'm not going to say bye because I am going to see you later, but for sure.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thank you guys.

[Bonnie Zane]

Thank you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Send our love to everybody over at Suits LA and we'll be calling you with our questions. We love you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Please call me.

[Bonnie Zane]

All right, bye guys. See you next week.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Bye.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Sidebar is produced by Sarah Raffavi, Patrick J. Adams and SiriusXM Media.

[Bonnie Zane]

Our senior producer is Kimmy Gregory and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez and our music is by Brendan Burns.

[Bonnie Zane]

Our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin Anderson. Tito's handmade vodka had been mixed with its fair share of cocktails. But one night, a chilled glass topped.

[Patrick J. Adams]

With lime and cranberry would change everything.

[Bonnie Zane]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

To credit approval terms apply.