Dirty Little Secrets

Summary

Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast – Episode Summary: "Dirty Little Secrets"

Release Date: October 29, 2024
Podcast Host/Authors: Patrick J. Adams (Mike Ross) & Sarah Rafferty (Donna Paulson)

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Introduction

In this episode of Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast, hosts Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty delve into Season 1, Episode 4 of the acclaimed TV series "Suits," titled "Dirty Little Secrets." Despite their roles as Mike Ross and Donna Paulson, Sarah and Patrick reveal that they’ve never actually watched the show before, embarking on a "first watch" journey alongside their listeners. This episode offers a blend of episode recap, behind-the-scenes insights, personal anecdotes, and interactions with fellow cast members.

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Personal Anecdotes and Behind-the-Scenes Stories

Patrick's Travel Tale
Patrick shares an amusing and serendipitous travel story that highlights the intimate connection between the cast and fans. [03:08] He recounts an encounter at Frankfurt airport where a fan approached him with a photo of Sarah Rafferty, creating a memorable moment for both hosts. Sarah adds, "There's no coincidences," emphasizing the deep bond and shared experiences with their audience.

Sarah's Pregnancy and Set Life
Sarah reflects on her time during this episode's filming, mentioning her pregnancy and the challenges of shooting while feeling unwell. [08:28] This personal insight adds depth to her appreciation of the episode's serious tone and character developments.

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Episode Breakdown: "Dirty Little Secrets"

Act 1: Setting the Stage
The episode begins with Mike Ross (Patrick) securing his first pro bono case, a housing dispute involving a bedbug infestation. Simultaneously, Harvey Specter notices Jessica Pearson's (Gina Torres) familiarity with a new client, Quentin Sands, revealing more about Jessica's past. [05:30]

Notable Quote:
Sarah remarks, "These are people that we have empathy for. These are people, humans who are struggling," highlighting the episode's emotional depth. [50:23]

Act 2: Rising Tensions
Harvey faces off against the opposing attorney, Colin Church, who demands an exorbitant settlement. Despite presenting evidence of Quentin's financial motives, the judge allows the case to proceed, intensifying the legal battle. Meanwhile, Mike struggles with his first court appearance, underscored by his lack of real-world legal experience. [32:03]

Notable Quote:
Patrick humorously notes, "What if we did a podcast where we were both in our tubs recording?" capturing the light-hearted banter between the hosts. [07:57]

Act 3: Deeper Investigations
Mike enlists Rachel to investigate the landlord’s properties, revealing systemic harassment and corruption. Jessica takes a more active role, confronting her ex-husband Quentin, who discloses his battle with ALS. This revelation deepens Jessica's character, showcasing her resilience and dedication. [36:15]

Notable Quote:
Sarah shares her excitement over Jessica's sophisticated attire, saying, "It speaks to what's happening in this scene where she is playing two things." [42:25]

Act 4: Unraveling Secrets
Jessica and Harvey uncover that Lisa, Quentin’s girlfriend, tampered with drug trials, providing crucial evidence for the case. Mike's determination leads him to gather additional plaintiffs, demonstrating his growth and commitment to justice. The hosts discuss the show's ability to balance legal drama with personal character arcs, emphasizing the intricacies of the narrative. [39:22]

Notable Quote:
Patrick reflects on the scene's impact, stating, "That's a thing that just starts disappearing from the show, I think." [48:29]

Act 5: Resolutions and New Beginnings
The episode culminates with the successful settlement of the Sands case, affirming Jessica’s unwavering belief in Quentin. Mike celebrates his courtroom victory and takes a bold step by asking Rachel out, navigating his personal aspirations amidst professional challenges. The hosts appreciate the blend of emotional and triumphant moments, underscoring the episode's effectiveness in character development. [55:14]

Notable Quote:
Sarah expresses her admiration for the episode's emotional manipulation, stating, "I was so emotional during this. It is so beautiful." [50:07]

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Listener Interaction

Question from Will:
A listener named Will inquires, "Why doesn't Jessica Pearson have an assistant? She's ahead of the dang firm."
Patrick responds humorously, mentioning Aaron Korsh's typical reaction: "The whole firm is her assistant." [18:44]
Sarah adds, "That's a good answer," appreciating the witty response. [19:19]

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Notable Scenes and Quotes

• Jessica's Dress Revelation
  Sarah highlights a pivotal moment where Jessica Pearson is seen in a chic dress, signaling Jolie Andreotta's (Jessica Pearson) first episode appearance. [16:55]
  Sarah: "It's so chic. And then I was like, this must be Jolie's first episode." [16:55]

• Mike in Harvey’s Suit
  Patrick humorously discusses wearing an oversized suit, mentioning how it perpetuates the misconception about his character's stature. [27:58]
  Patrick: "You're so much bigger than I thought." [27:58]

• Emotional Confrontations
  Sarah praises the writing and acting in scenes where Jessica confronts her ex-husband Quentin about his ALS diagnosis. [50:07]
  Sarah: "I was so emotional during this. It is so beautiful." [50:07]

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Insights and Analysis

Character Development:
The episode provides significant growth for both Jessica and Mike. Jessica's confrontation with her past and Mike's first court case offer deeper insights into their characters' complexities and motivations.

Set Design and Costumes:
Patrick and Sarah discuss behind-the-scenes elements, such as set transitions and costume choices, notably Jessica’s sophisticated attire that mirrors her professional demeanor and emotional resilience.

Narrative Techniques:
The hosts analyze the show's use of visual storytelling, such as cinematography techniques in courtroom scenes and the strategic use of music to evoke emotions.

Writing and Directing:
Sarah and Patrick commend Aaron Korsh's writing for balancing legal intricacies with personal dramas, while also touching upon directing choices that enhance character interactions and plot progression.

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Conclusion

"Dirty Little Secrets" stands out as a pivotal episode in "Suits" for its blend of legal battles and personal revelations. Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty effectively explore the episode's depth, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding enriched with personal anecdotes and professional insights. The episode not only advances the overarching narrative but also solidifies the show's capacity to handle serious themes with grace and emotional resonance.

As Patrick aptly puts it, "It grew on me. I loved the episode," and Sarah echoes this sentiment, highlighting the episode's ability to stretch and expand the viewer's experience.

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Connect with Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast
Have questions, thoughts, or ideas for future episodes? Reach out via email at [e-mail] or send an audio clip to be featured on the show!

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Transcript

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[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

Hi, I'm Patrick J. Adams. You may know me as Mike Ross from the TV series Suits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I'm Sarah Rafferty. You may know me as Donna Paulson on Suits.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And this is Sidebar a Suits Rewatch podcast, or actually a Suits Watch podcast, because Sarah and I have never actually watched the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Each week we are going to dig into an episode of the show. We're going to share memories from behind the scenes. We're going to answer listener questions. We're going to ask some questions ourselves.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We're going to do it all.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But first of all, Listener, I just want you guys to know that Patrick has had quite an odyssey. Explain all the time zones and places you've been since I saw you. Exactly eight days ago.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Let me walk you. I'll give you a quick walk through. We don't need to dwell on this too much, but just to give you some context, listener, 10 days ago I was in Glasgow. We finished shooting the thing I've been working on Lockerbie. I flew to London, connected to a flight to Austin, where I met you. Yes, and Kristen, and we did the ATX Festival. So we did two days there where we did some press and we did a big event with some fans, which was amazing. But that was a bit of a Trip. My brain was already a bit melted. Then flew back to la, spent two days with the family, and then I had to get on a plane to go to Malta to shoot two scenes. One where I leave a car and one where I get back into that very same car. That's all I had to do. Then I had to get back on a plane, fly to Frankfurt, and then fly to Los Angeles. I have no idea what time it is, but I have a story for you which I didn't tell you before we recorded because I wanted to get your very live. This was crazy. Okay, okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Should I be nervous?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I connected through Frankfurt and I was sitting there completely exhausted, you know, lost in an airport, just trying to stay awake until I got onto the next flight. And this woman comes up to me and she says, patrick, I'm so sorry to bother you. You're not going to believe this, but 12 days ago, I ran into Sarah Rafferty. What this is in the Frankfurt airport. She shows me a picture that she took. The two of you. I think you were getting your nails done. Hold on. Do you remember this?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, yes. She was so lovely. Yeah, we had a really real conversation. She showed a lot.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She was so sweet.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She's the best.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And to just know that she ran into you completely randomly out in the world two weeks ago, and then here we are in Frankfurt. I thought that was pretty.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, there's no coincidences. And I remember this conversation in the nail salon because we just shared realness, like context about when she was watching suits, who she was watching it with, what she was going through. She had just recently lost her dad.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

To cancer, I believe. And that he was going through his treatment and they. That they would watch it together. And I'm getting choked up just talking about that. Like, you know, I know how much shows mean to me, you know, whether it was even just in Covid. Like I remember folding laundry and just kind of getting through it the day to day, and the worries. Having a reprieve from my worries from watching shows. So when somebody comes to me and they're like, you guys were with me while I was going through this thing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's really the difference between a television show and a film. I think you're like a part of their family. Like, you're a staple in the living room, like through everything, through the hard stuff, through the great stuff. You're just sort of. A lot of times, especially when you're a show, that there's so much of Suits. There's nine seasons. It's just kind of there and you feel like a part of the family. So sometimes when these people come up to us, you can tell like that level of intimacy, like you've been through it with them. So anyway, it was amazing to meet her and it was wild to see your face stuck on a phone in front of me there. And it was just a reinforcement that a How lucky are we that we got to do this? And how lucky are we that we get to do this, this, this? So anyway, listener, that's why if you hear me drift off into the ether throughout this episode, it's just because I'm trying to figure out what time zone I'm in. But I'm excited to be here. And do you want to. Do you want to just dive in? Should we just dive into. We got lots to say.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What episode are we talking about? Patrick?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Today we're tackling season one, episode four, titled Dirty Little Secrets. It was written by John Cowan and directed by Denny Gordon. And it Originally aired on July 14, 2011.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And in this episode, Harvey and Jessica defend someone from Jessica's past in a lawsuit. And Mike is assigned his first solo case, a pro bono housing dispute.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Some fun facts from our firm's best researcher here on sidebar. This was actually the sixth episode we shot. It was the first aired episode with Jolie Andreotta credited as our costume designer, which I know we'll probably get into. And this was also the episode that Gabriel and I shot a lot of the opening credits scenes during. Some of the scenes in the opening credits are from actual episodes. And then other pieces of them were custom shot to slide in. It'd be fun to actually do that at some point. Like an extra go through the credits and I'll point out, see if I can remember which ones are from episodes and which ones we shot. I think it's all the close up stuff like Gabriel getting out of the car and like, I think there's like a me turning really fast. Like a very 90210 moment.

[Sarah Rafferty]

They were so good. I love the opening credits.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I like that it gets you in the mood. It gets you in the mood. I will also say, listener, I tried to watch this on the plane on my way home yesterday and was so self conscious about the fact that I was sitting there watching myself on a plane with people watching me watch me on a plane. I couldn't.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You would have been. I feel like if I was there, I would have filmed.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I freaked out. I couldn't do it. I know exactly somebody is going to film it and Then it's going to end up on social media. And, yes, I'm doing a podcast, so I have a good excuse.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But, you know, I do think that's why. Just getting back real quick to what you were saying about the intimacy of being on a television show when. During the time that this aired. So we just said it was June 23, 2011. That really was when we started, when people started watching TV on their computers and a little bit on their phones or their iPads. And that's why it felt more intimate. Because you're like, I'm not just on the TV mounted in your living room necessarily, but I'm like, in bed with you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

On the subway with you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I sometimes watch TV in the bathtub. Yeah. In traffic. Yeah, I do. I do watch things from the bathtub go on sometimes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What sort of stuff are you watching at the bathtub?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Can we get in a sound effect of, like, some water right now? Like, just a little, like, Wait a.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Minute, wait a minute. What if we did a podcast where we were both in our tubs recording?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Why not? Why wouldn't we do that?

[Patrick J. Adams]

What if separately.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Why wouldn't we do that?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Let's dive in. We have so much to talk about here. Do you have any opening statements, Sarah, about this? We've just. Again, we're talking about Dirty Little Secrets, episode four. What was your overall impression before we dive into specifics?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I would say that the first time I watched this episode, I had a little bit of a recalibration because this episode was a little bit more serious because we have a serious case that we will get into. And it left some of the established pacing and comedic moments behind for a second. It gave us time to take a deeper dive into Jessica's character, which I was craving to do. That Lewis receded a little bit.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And Donna.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And Donna.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I didn't remember when I turned it on that I wasn't in this episode, but I do remember how happy I was to be home because I was pregnant.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, I bet.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I was very, very sick all day, and I was hiding it. I was like, obviously not.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, we didn't know you were pregnant yet. No, no, of course not.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No. And we didn't. I mean, no, I didn't tell anybody I was pregnant until we were done with the season.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, right, right, right, right, right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Of course, it was kind of a different time when you sort of stressed about that, like, yeah, yeah. Oh, is this gonna be a problem for the world?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Sure, sure, sure. Of course.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Now I think it's A little bit easier.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, I totally agree with you. I felt like it was a bit of a different tone at first. It took me a while to get into it. I was like, where? Where's everybody having a laugh? And it. And yet at the same time, by the end, I think I really appreciated that this was an episode where I think the show proves it's capable of handling slightly more depth and handling a story that's more difficult. But it just. There's subject matter here that if the show, if it stayed too light, it wouldn't have been able to handle it. It wouldn't be able to shoulder this responsibly and really drop into the feelings and the things that these characters are going through. So I ended up feeling like, oh, cool. This is an episode where we proved we could handle that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And it did remind me how much, how thrilled I was personally that I was on a show like this. Like they called it at the time a dramedy. And I don't like that word.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't know why I don't like that word.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It was. It's diminishing, I think, a little bit.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Both things.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, exactly, exactly. It's a show. We were on a show where we had the opportunity, you know, to play moments that were comedic, like overtly comedic and silly. I mean, stuff gets pretty silly. Lewis has a cat that goes to a dentist. I mean, it goes there at some point and then really, really dramatic things happen.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I think this is where we kind of threw the gauntlet down in that. And I think it works.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And the audience stayed in. Yeah, nine years.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, let me get into the cold open summary here. After mostly dominating a late night Harvard trivia session between the associates, Mike wins his first pro bono assignment, but is now convinced that Lewis knows his secret. Harvey witnesses Jessica being very familiar with a new client, Quentin Sands, whose pharmaceutical company is being sued. Jessica reveals that Quentin is her ex husband and assigns Harvey to defend the case. First of all, we've got Mike doing this trivia scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Can I sidebar really quickly? Sidebar me about how he almost loses?

[Patrick J. Adams]

About how Mike almost loses.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Mike almost loses because why? Because of pizza.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right. Because Mike can memorize all the things in the world he wants, but he doesn't have the lived experience, which is great. That's kind of what this episode is about. Right?

[Sarah Rafferty]

And my silly sidebar is just. Is about pizza, because I paused and went sort of on a deep dive about pizza. So the two schools that I went to, there were two pizza places at both of them. Right. There were rivalries about these pizza places, and there was, like, a piece of your identity that had to do with these. So I want to ask you, what.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Were the two pizza places?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, so, for example, at Yale, is.

[Patrick J. Adams]

This a really long, humble brag about how you actually went to see.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I knew this was going to happen.

[Patrick J. Adams]

This is the longest brag ever. No, we are cutting this. This is the thing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You were setting me up. I'm trying to talk about pizza, and you're giving me shit that I went to New Haven.

[Patrick J. Adams]

New Haven. That's what we're going to call it. Okay. Anyway, I actually do want to know what you're talking about.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What were the two pizza places? Okay, so at Harvard, everybody knows about pinocchios, right? And at Yale, everybody knows about sallies and peppies. And it's still a thing. I checked. Because I have family members who live in New Haven, and they came to visit me this weekend. So I have, like, nephews.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And so they gave me a whole tutorial on sallies and peppies because one of them's gonna work at Peppy's this summer.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Which one is better?

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's the problem.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You don't know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Talking about that. That's the thing. That's the thing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's too controversial. You can't talk about it. You'll get in trouble. I mean, I'd have to kill you. Do you have an opinion? Is my point.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, you can't tell a non bulldog a new trick.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't even know what that means. More Yale bull bragging they tried to be a jerk.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, I hate this. See, this is the thing. We've talked about this.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What did I do? I didn't do anything.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, we've talked about this thing. We talked about it in previous podcasts that. This is the thing where you're gonna make fun of me because I call it drama school, and you guys all go, oh, drama.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Hey, I went to drama school.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, but you don't call it that. You call it school, and I called it drama school so you guys would give me be.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think it's more how I talk about it. When I talk about drama school. It's pretty chill. It's just like I went to drama school, but with you, you kind of create a bit that's not.

[Sarah Rafferty]

People did it. Was he making fun of me?

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, not at all.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He made fun of me. You. I'm looking to the booth, you guys. He made fun of me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Greatest schools on planet Earth where I'm.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Sure you I'm just trying to talk.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Which I'm sure you did great.

[Sarah Rafferty]

There's pizza at the school that I went to. That's connecting.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But you won't tell me which one's your favorite.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, that's. I'm trying to ask you about pizza at schools. Did you have a rivalry at usc, which is one of the greatest schools in the world?

[Patrick J. Adams]

You try and do this, it is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you know the acceptance rate at usc?

[Patrick J. Adams]

No. Do you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You looked it up.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's well under 10%.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, I think it's very different now.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It is so hard to get into.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, it's very different now. I would not get into usc.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm just giving you. I wouldn't get in anywhere.

[Patrick J. Adams]

My brain.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I wouldn't go to any school.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I wouldn't get into any school.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I would homeschool myself.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Have you been to Pinocchio's Pizza?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I have not.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I have. I went one time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How was it?

[Patrick J. Adams]

It was delicious. And I believe again, our firm's researcher has discovered that on their homepage right now is a clip of this. Is it a clip of this episode is on the homepage of Pinocchio's Pizza.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What an honor.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Total honor.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, well, pizza.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That was the longest sidebar.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And you guys are gonna have to cut that down.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Stop telling them what to do.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That needs to be cut down. So later in the hallway with Harvey, Mike is conv. That Lewis knows and wants to hack Harvard to protect his secret. But Harvey isn't worried.

[Patrick J. Adams]

This is a. This is sort of just a moving scene. But did you notice in this scene, as we're walking. It's so silly, but as we're walking, we're in that back part of the set that we haven't yet seen on the show. And if you notice, we're walking through those double doors and those filing cabinets used to be there. And we end up in what the. In the background of Harvey and I in this sequence is just a bunch of desks. There's, like, more office. It looks like another bullpen, essentially. But that's becomes the library. But the library isn't built yet, is my point. It's a fun thing when you're watching us walk through that and you can tell we haven't built the library yet. So that part of the set is where the library is going to exist?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Which is only interesting to us after that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Harvey notices that Jessica is very familiar with new client Quentin Sands, played by Russell Hornsby, whose pharmaceutical company is being sued. Jessica reveals to Harvey, that Quentin is, in fact, her ex husband, and that she believes in Quentin's innocence.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So good. I mean, I'm right in, right off the bat here of this episode. First of all, Russell Hornsby. Oh, my goodness, again, how lucky are we with these actors right off the bat? These are people who are coming onto our show not knowing that suits what it is yet, which I keep. You know, like, we had Titus Welliver, and now we have Russell Hornsby. We have all these people.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We have Sharon Leal, who we are.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So lucky to have, who probably have their pick of the litter at this stage in their career of, like, whatever shows they want to do. So I just think we're so lucky to be able to, like, start our first season with this caliber of actor.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So when I was watching this scene, when Harvey comes in and starts to talk to her, talk to Jessica, this is where I leapt up. I literally was laying down on a couch watching this, and I sat bolted upright as if I had had, like, the happiest dream of my life. Because we finally see Jessica in a great dress. It's not pants, and it is so chic. And then I was like, this must be Jolie's first episode. And I knew this because Gina found a moment, and never underestimate that we all found a moment when there was something special on the back of our dresses. We made sure that it was on film.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So she went. She. She stepped away from her desk, I think over to the coffee table to pick up a file to put in her briefcase. So we got the back of her dress, and you can see that there's a keyhole in the back of the dress.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, my God. I didn't notice that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And it's so. It's. It makes me feel so bathtub sound. So it makes me so happy to see. And then additionally, through my excitement, I had an epiphany.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What was that? We love those.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So I wasn't in this episode, and this was Jolie's first episode and into season two, I was in a. I was in a fitting with Jolie, and she was like, baby girl, I didn't know you were a series regular.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, because she used. She started basically on an episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She started when I wasn't there, and I was always like, why don't I have a closet? Like, she did not. She had. Listen, she hit the ground running. She came in and she picked up in episode four on a show, and she had to deal with all the pieces that were there and turn it into her vision. And Reshop and reshuffle everything and get this show on the track that it takes for the next nine years.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And so you're saying you could see it on camera that happening like you saw. Oh, my God. Jolie's here now. When you saw Jessica in this scene, immediately.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And that's why I got up and checked. And then I can see it in the next episode. That in the next scene where she walks into Harvey's office, which is a morning scene, and she's wearing this beautiful shawl collared suit.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And you felt it when you saw my suit as well in this. You could really tell it had gotten dialed up. Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I am not in.

[Patrick J. Adams]

When I'm in an oversized pinstripe.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You guys are just pretty. From just right here in the moneymaker. That's just all I focus on.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We're going to. We have a question from a fan from Will.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Hi, Will.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Will, hello. Thanks for doing this. Why doesn't Jessica Pearson have an assistant? She's ahead of the dang firm.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Exclamation point.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Exclamation point. You would think that senior partners have them. She would too. Love the show. Big fan, Will.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I will.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Great question, Will. It's not the first time it's been asked. It's the sort of question that you will see Aaron Korsh get very angry when it's asked because it's not. It's not his favorite. And his answer for it is the whole firm is her assistant.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, I love that answer.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That was the answer.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's a good answer.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Why don't we take a little break? And then when we come back, we're going to be talking about Mike wearing Harvey's suit. We're going to be talking about bedbugs. Are they as disgusting as we thought? And we're going to see Mike take on his first pro bono case. So we'll be right back.

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[Patrick J. Adams]

This show is sponsored by Better help. Sarah. You know we're going into the holidays and there's no more important time to talk about gratitude.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Look, I was so grateful last week when I was struggling with being away. We were both away on set and we had a nice phone call and you helped me get reconnected with my gratitude.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. I think it's so important in my life to practice gratitude as much as possible because sometimes life can get pretty heavy and it's the quickest way out of that slump. That's why we're so happy that the show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, this month is all about gratitude. And you know what I want to say to you, Sarah, is thank you. It's been such a pleasure getting to do this with you. And I know we've talked a lot about mental health, but it's really helpful with us both away shooting away from our families to have someone to talk to through it. So I want to say thank you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, thank you, Patrick. I'm so grateful for you too, as you know.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But there is one other person that we don't thank enough, and that is ourselves. Sometimes it's hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense out of everything. And in this crazy world, well, that's just not that easy. So here's a reminder to all of you to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, please give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.comsidebarshow today to get 10% off your first month, that's BetterHelp. H E L P.com Sidebarshow first and.

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[Patrick J. Adams]

All right, we're into Act 1. In Act 1, Jessica promises Harvey that she'll stay out of the Sands case. Harvey meets with Quentin and his girlfriend Lisa, as well as the plaintiff's attorney who asked for an impossible $250 million settlement. Meanwhile, Mike meets his bedbug ridden pro bono client who is being unfairly evicted.

[Sarah Rafferty]

In the first Scene of this act, Harvey only agrees to take Quentin's case if Jessica stays out of it. I really appreciated in this scene, the development of Harvey and Jessica's relationship and how Harvey feels about being left out of her personal life. I think it's really, really endearing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But also, I have to say, I just loved how Gabriel delivered the line at the end, the button, like, who doesn't like me? Who doesn't like me? And he was, like, looking around. I feel like he was kind of looking for Donna in that moment.

[Patrick J. Adams]

All he needed is Donna.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wait, who doesn't like me?

[Patrick J. Adams]

You're right. This really sets the two of them up. Like, I'm so there. Not just for Jessica's development in this, but also getting more behind the scenes of Harvey and Jessica and seeing them have to. Seeing the way that Harvey deals with her navigating a difficult thing. First of all, he's upset that he wasn't included and that he didn't know. But he also sees someone who he admires and respects going through something in this episode, and it's really fun to.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And also, as somebody who played the woman behind the man for a lot of seasons, in a way, Harvey's the man behind the woman.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Exactly, Exactly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Love it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And we see that a lot in this episode, and that gives him different things to play. There's some scenes coming up where he's not the most powerful person in the room constantly throughout this episode, and he has to defer, and he has to take care of his mentor. And I really like that. So then Mike meets his new pro bono client, Frank Carvello, played by Matthew Lemke. Matt Lemke is a great guy who's dealing with bedbugs. Mike. Then Strong Arms city employee Glenda, played by Kim Roberts, to get Frank an inspection. I don't even know how you're going to talk about it, because I know as soon as I was watching it, I was like. I was feeling it. So I was like, sarah's feeling it. Sarah's got some thoughts about this scene. Do you want to get into it?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, I just want to say, first of all, Kim Roberts as Glenda was so amazing. And, of course, I went immediately to find out what else. I can see her in tons.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I looked at her idb. She's in everything.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She's also a voice on Paw patrol.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Whoa.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm super jealous of that. Okay, so let's talk about this scene. So, Kim, you guys both crushed this scene, right? But, you know, Mike threatening Glenda unfortunately isn't like, the most winning thing. And it's not. I really want to say it's not because of performance on either side. It's beautifully performed. But I want to ask, like, what were the. What were we going for here? Because if Mike is trying to speak truth to power or something like this, Glenda doesn't deserve this. I feel like. I feel like it called for, like, a charm, not a showdown. Maybe some empathy for how hard her job is.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Honey, honey, not vinegar would have been a vibe here. Yeah. I think, again, like, I think we're at a place when we're watching the show where we're just, like, seeing us try things. I think the writers are trying things, we're trying things, you know? But this does feel like one of those places where it's like, oh, I think Mike finding a way to use his charm here to do a thing that maybe Harvey would. Strong arm. But that's the problem is I don't think Harvey would do this. I think Harvey done swagger. Harvey punches up. He doesn't punch down. I don't think, like, again, we're just starting the show, but my experience of Harvey is he likes to punch up at people he doesn't want to, like if some. If he has way more power than someone and they're not in a legal battle, he doesn't want to threaten them personally unless they're done something really horrible and they sort of deserve it, for whatever that's worth. Glinda does not deserve personal threat. Overworked, underpaid government worker doesn't deserve to be threatened personally for not complying with Mike.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But it may have a little bit of a statute of limitations on it. I think today, if we were shooting this today, this scene would have been different.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So Harvey meets with Quentin and Lisa, Quentin's girlfriend, played by Sharon Leal, at Sans Pharmaceuticals.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So good. Exactly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know. Amazing good.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Or how lucky are we?

[Sarah Rafferty]

And they explain why their breakthrough ALS drug is so important.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'll give you a little background here from our firm's best researcher. According to ALS.org, aLS is a progressive, neurodegenerative disease that affects nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord. There's currently no cure for ALS, and every 90 minutes, someone is diagnosed with the disease and someone passes from it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And also in this scene, I think this scene may have had one of my favorite lines in it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Which one?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's when Russell says they were drinking.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Coffee on the Titanic.

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I don't think that put Leonardo DiCaprio in the water.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I caught in this scene. And I know we're not really cursing here, but I heard a bull beep in this scene, and it made me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

First time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't. I hadn't heard any cursing in the episode. And when we. In any episodes, not yet, and we aired. I mean, it must have been 10pm if we said that. So I guess we were swearing. I don't know. It really jumped out at me. I was like, did he just say that? Cut to Mike in the apartment of his bedbug infested client, Frank. Frank has served an eviction notice for unpaid rent by the landlord, played by Paulino Nunes, who is also great. Some good bad guys here.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

In the scene, we learned some really gross. Have you ever dealt with bedbugs in your life?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Don't even say that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You haven't. You lived in New York at some point, didn't you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I did. I did live in New York for a long time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Is it a thing? Like, is it really bad still? Are bedbugs like, there was a whole.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thing in Paris recently.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I've never dealt with them, but it sounds horrific.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It is. Next we see Harvey waiting for Mike on the street. And Mike arrives on his bike wearing Harvey's suit, which Donna got from Harvey's office. Harvey is not pleased.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Can we talk about this scene? This is what happens to me in my life still to this day. Oh, my God. Are you that guy from Suits? You're so much bigger than I thought. And I'm realizing it's scenes like this that did not help that. Cause Gabriel and I are the same size guys. We're basically the same size human being. I think we are exactly the same height. He might be, like, a little trimmer than I am. He's a vegetarian. But we're basically the same size human being. And they put me in one of his suits, and it's like I'm swimming in it. What is going on? And I remember in the moment I was shooting, I was kind of upset. I was like, guys, I'm not. Why is it so much bigger? The joke won't work unless it's bigger. But then I think it's set on this thing that persists to this day that I'm somehow 3ft smaller than Gabriel, that I'm like a hobbit. And people seem disappointed. They meet me and they're like, whoa, you're really tall. How tall is Gabriel? Is he six, five? I'm like, no, we're the same height.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What about on the poster, were you guys at the same height?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, Gabriel and I are side by side. Well, I might be standing behind him a lot on the poster.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so maybe that's it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, I also think it has to do with. There. Look at us on the post. Same height.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I bet that was, like, actually figured out in your contracts, things like that. Apparently, they work that stuff out. They have to be the same size or whatever.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, I mean, my team wouldn't know. I mean, my team was like, patrick got a job, great. But I think it also has to do with the power dynamic of the characters. I think people just see me as smaller than him.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Like, because I have to be in their minds. And I think a scene like this does not help it because it gives that a physical reality. Like, oh, he must be smaller. Look at him swimming in that silly, ridiculous clown suit.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe it speaks to how well you transformed into being Mike and how you played the status so beautifully that we assumed there was actually a difference in stature. That there wasn't. So you literally shrunk a little bit. I'm glad you said to fill Mike's shoes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, actually. And I didn't want to say it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Cause it was gonna sound egoic, but you're acting. But I wanna point out that the helmet is back. And the helmet is getting my award for best recurring performance.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Because anything to make it cooler. I'm wearing a suit that's 18 sizes too big. And now, hey. Actually, you know, it would be great, though, you have to put the helmet on because you're on the bike. You can see me trying so hard to look like. Not completely ridiculous in scenes like this.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, you crush it. Because Harvey gives you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

For wearing the bike helmet, and you own it. And then you say safety first. I also need to point out that that is not in the script.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The safety first.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Safety first is not in the script.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Gabriel. I knew it was you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, you said, safety first.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, right. I'm smart. Never mind Patrick. I knew it was me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, you go right into the next scene where we meet the opposing counsel, Colin Church, played by Anthony Stark. And he wants a $250 million settlement, which would absolutely bankrupt Sands. But in that scene, he calls you Harvey's child and you. And you gave him the finger.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But you got it past the sensors. You can't give the finger.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You can't do a finger on television. Is that real? Can we get a clarification on that?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. We do need to Fact check everything I say. But the reason I say that is because I once gave you the finger. And they can only use my nail, like, the top of my nail in this shot. Really?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Is that real?

[Sarah Rafferty]

You are allowed to do it, but I imagine that for ratings purposes, they don't. They prefer you not let you do it very often. Yeah. I mean, I remember when I said it was an episode that Gabriel was directing. It was in season eight or nine, I feel like. And I say I'm in my position because I earned it. And I had never.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wait, that's in the show?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It was in the show. And it was.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Did you make the cut?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's in the cut. It's in eight or nine. Like, we're talking years from now.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. You did an eight season.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I went to Yale drama School.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Let's dive into Act 2. Act 2, summary. In this act, things are not going our way for the guys. We see that Harvey has met his match in opposing attorney Church. And even with proof of shady recycling plaintiffs, the judge moves forward with the case. Even worse, Mike loses his first case in housing court. Let's just jump right to that scene. That scene was so good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I love that scene. I love your performance in this scene.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thank you. And also, she's great.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Vivian Tanaka. There is a scene where I think Gabriel's character says Vivian Tanaka, like, four times. It's such a good name. Such a good name.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And again, like, this scene really reestablishes what we got out of that Harvard trivia scene at the beginning, which is that Mike can do all of the prep in the world, but there's certain things and elements in the world of law that he doesn't know, because you only know because you know by doing it. Because he's a fake lawyer, he's out of his element. So I think that's why this scene is so fun to watch, is to watch a Mike trying so hard to be the best little lawyer that he could be. He's just giving it is all. He's so nervous. I do this wave. Do you see that moment where we have to give the paperwork to the judge? And then we do a little do si do? And I'm like, oh, sorry. And then I like. I wave at the judge. I like hand it. And then I'm just like, hi. I don't know where that came from, but it made me laugh.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So Harvey has also had a bad day in court. And even with the reveal of Church's shady tactics, the judge is more interested in the evidence indicating Quentin has a financial motive for the fraud, so the case is gonna proceed. So you had an interesting.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, another technical. It's funny that I'm always sort of noticing these behind the scenes, but I believe both these courtrooms are the same courtroom. Because usually when you shoot again, a courtroom, and we hadn't yet built our own courtroom, you have to shoot all the scenes at once. And yet these are supposed to be two different courtrooms in the story of the show. So you can tell that we're shooting the same courtroom in a totally different way. The first scene is head on looking down at Tanaka and Mike and back to the judge. And then in this scene, it's mostly sideways. It's profile across Harvey and Church. Did you notice that?

[Sarah Rafferty]

So by the end of this podcast series, will I have learned how to direct?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, you could already direct. You would be a great director. I don't wanna hear it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm gonna have to go back to school.

[Patrick J. Adams]

They had directing classes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I have to go back to school. I'm thinking to try to get into usc. I wonder if they'll take me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, why don't we take a break? When we come back, we're going to figure out what surprises Jessica and what does this case mean for Mike and Rachel. Be right back.

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[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

So the first scene is Harvey and Jessica talking in Jessica's car, and she decides to take over the case. And we learn that Quentin began seeing Lisa before he and Jessica separated. But still, Jessica believes in Quentyn. And I just have to ask you about this scene. Did you feel this is your hometown that they were driving through?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I had to watch the scene many times because I got distracted by the third character in the scene, which is what's going on out the windows, which is they're basically driving up Queen.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. And they drive around Queen's Park.

[Sarah Rafferty]

See this? I wished I was watching it with you so we could talk about what we were.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We should do. I was thinking we should do one of these where we watch the episode and then we record right after it. Like, no notes. We just raw dog it. Where we just watch an episode and we record anything.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, if you can make me a T shirt that says I'm raw dogging it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Sidebar. Raw dog it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I might do it. Like, if it has. If it's like macrame in some, like, really, really kind of. Like, if it's gentle, really rough hewn, like handmade something.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There's a thing that happens in this scene or that I just loved, which is he's showing her the paperwork that is telling us that he was with Lisa before he was finished with Jessica. Right. Like, that's new information. He was trying to hide it from her, but he's found it out. And she looks at it and very quickly goes, you think I didn't know about this? Right. And then, you know, not to jump too far ahead, but we do realize coming up in a scene with. With her and Quinton, she didn't know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And it just speaks to what a badass she is, that this isn't for you, Harvey. You don't get to see me squirm. You don't get to see my reaction to this information. You know, like, I'm going to take it in. I'm going to be able to digest it on my own, and then I can take it to the source and deal with it. I don't know. It's just.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She's playing chess.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, she's just playing a level of chess. And she has a command over her emotions, which, again, is not a coldness or not feeling them. It's just. I'm not here to feel them with you. This is not the place to feel them. Which I really liked. I just learned. I feel like I learned a lot about Jessica in that moment. Yeah. So we're back at the office.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And initially, Harvey can't believe that Mike lost in housing court. But when he learns that Mike was up against Vivian Tanaka, Harvey knows something's up. The building's going condo, and Mike needs to think bigger.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So Mike recruits Rachel to visit one of the landlord's other buildings to investigate the condos for sale. They pretend to be a married couple interested in buying in order to get access to information about the older tenants in the building.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so. So this. I want to talk about this scene. Because the role playing was fun. I had to rewatch it a few times. There was a moment where I thought maybe this moment made it get a little bit weird. Do you remember the moment where you guys turned away from the saleswoman and had, like, a little sidebar? You had a little quiet moment. But I think what I heard was Rachel say, like, something has been touching me. So it made me feel like she does not want to be touched. So this gives me the idea that this might have a statute of limitations of it on it, because there might be a power dynamic here that. I don't know.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think I. I completely agree with you. I was watching. I was like, oh, what? What just happened? I heard someone, like, she turned around and, like, clearly didn't want to be touched. And then I'm like, come on, come on. No, we're doing the thing. And it. I think it's. I think it. It's a scene where if you just cut that part out and had us whispering to each other, it would play. I 100% agree with you. I, like, I've sort of sprung on her that we're married. Right. That's what happens. Do I say we're married or we're getting married?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. No, you're married. Your mother in law, married.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, yeah. And that she's not. She's trying to, like, keep up. And she was like, I didn't know that's what we were gonna be doing here. And I think it just, like, takes a turn for the worst in that. In that moment.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, yes, I agree. I'm exactly on the same page.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Harvey meets Jessica in a bar where she shares that Quentin needs the drug to work because he, in fact, has als. And I think we're gonna get into this conversation more when we talk to Gina into this scene. So I don't know, she had some.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Really, really clear and interesting recollections about this being so early on and her how she knew Jessica and how we had a new director and we were just sort of getting into It. And it was kind of. It's kind of great to hear from her about that moment in a process when trying to get everybody on the.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Same track ended up being a really great scene and a pretty major turn, obviously, in the episode. Another. A great needle drop in this scene. Background Misery by Kendra Morris. It's quiet, but a great track.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What. Can I ask you a question? What would you say that kind of music is? Because that's the. All that music. I'm just like, oh, I love this music. I just want to, like, nestle into leathery.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm not going to interrupt you. I'm not interrupting you. R and B soul.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. I'm calling this genre. The genre of music that makes me just want to cuddle. Gee, I loved this song. And it. And it just made me want to tuck in with, like, a nice beverage, get in the bath, and a nice person.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Bath, candle. And now we're on to Act 4. In Act 4, Jessica and Harvey find out Lisa is the one who committed fraud. In an effort to save Quentin, they offered the plaintiffs a stake in the company so Quentin can continue his research. Meanwhile, Mike assembles a large group of plaintiffs for his own harassment suit. But he still needs more evidence. Jessica and Harvey go good cop, bad cop with Lisa, who confesses she tampered with the drug trial by removing a patient who showed signs of liver damage. Can I ask a question? Can you pull this up? Because I have a weird note that said this might be my favorite Jessica outfit. And I'm sure upon saying that, you're going to tell me I'm crazy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm going to tell you I love that it is. And I think I know what you responded to.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, let's just put on.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I went back to look at it. What's great about this look is that you don't see the full look until they're on the rooftop.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's that shirt.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's the way the shirt is just like. She makes it look like that's just normal, but, like, the amount of work that goes into, I imagine that's draping. Draping, exactly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's the draping of the shirt, which echoes the draping of the skirt that we see later. But you see how it sort of tucks out of sight. And that blazer. It's the way the tones are all working together, but also. So she has the softness of the shirt, the drape, and then the structure of the blazer. So it's like both things. She's both soft and she's tailored and professional.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, it's the both of them.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It speaks to what's happening in this scene where she is playing two things. She's holding the internally, like her shirt underneath is holding on to the pain of the loss. But she is a total, consummate professional who is there to take care of business and to win this case.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What's weird about this scene is that they're sitting at this weird little table.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Cocktail table.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Which is interesting. Cause I imagine they're just like we've sat at so many tables. Big boardroom tables. Let's get away from it. But they're sitting at this tiny little cocktail table, which makes Harvey look like a little boy. And I'm always. Which I kind of love, too. It's so appropriate for this scene because he is with his mentor now, so he is reduced. And I think it works because you get all that background. But I was curious. It was an interesting choice that you didn't have them sitting at that table in the background.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What I loved about lining it up, this trio, lining it up with Harvey in between, is that Gabriel does some of the best forehead, eyebrow, eyeball acting I've ever seen. He doesn't know where to look. At one point, he even looks into his lap. So I would encourage anybody to go back and just watch Gabriel's face in the first part of that. But what I would love to talk about is how Gina is playing this scene. Because we start out and you get the feeling that she's playing a little bit of the woman scorned trope for a moment, and then she turns it and she gets the information she needs in order to move on to win this case. So my question was, did you feel like the writers were writing that Jessica was thrown by her feelings a little bit in this and they were maybe gonna lean into that? Or do you think that they were already knowing that she was being strategic to kind break Sharon's character to get the information that she needs?

[Patrick J. Adams]

What the writers were thinking, I don't know. I'd assume maybe there was a bit of the woman scorn idea. And not in a way that I think is. I don't think the writers are just using that as a trope. I think it makes sense in the concept of the story. But I think Gina coming in probably takes a different take with it and owns it in a different way and plays a different color of it. That makes it that much more interesting.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And color. That's what you're getting with her outfit. She's Got three colors going that are working so well together. That's like one of Jolie's genius things. You know when you're trying to get.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Dressed, Patrick, you don't want to be there for that. No.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And it's just like, does this work with us?

[Patrick J. Adams]

You see, these are the jeans.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You see that? Like, there's. They're. It's all different colors, but they work together in a cohesive whole.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And then later on after that scene, they're up on the rooftop. Toronto in the background, discussing how to proceed in the case. When Harvey has ah. Moment. I don't know what that is. You are one of them, and they are one of you. And he runs off. We're gonna get one of these in every episode, right? That's what I'm learning. There is an aha in every single episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But it's so. But it's, like, great, right?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, no, I'm not. I don't think it's bad. It needs to happen. There's always a moment where something shifts.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But I'm always like, what's gonna happen?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right. You are one of them, and they are one of you. Harvey finds Mike in a conference room where he's gathered additional plaintiffs for a harassment suit while trying to still find more evidence. Mike has his own aha moment when he sees a photograph from the building he visited with Rachel. I love that when Harvey comes up to him in this moment, it's like he doesn't even remember what Mike's working on. Like, they've already talked about it. They've talked about Housing Corp. But when he comes up in this scene, it's as if he's like, wait, what are you do. Who are you? What's going on? That's how. That's how. Not important. What's going on with Mike is to what's actually going on with the firm, which is great.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is where I decided I'm going to change all my passwords to Vivian Tanaka. Do you think it's bad that I said that on air?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Probably want to cut that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, okay.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There's also. Isn't it. Gabriel has a great moment in this. When I say bedbugs. I didn't see it until, like, the third time I watched the episode. But when I say something about bedbugs. Can you pull that up? Can you pull this in?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Does he back away?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, he backs away really slowly. That you actually miss it if you don't watch it. I track down 15 former tenants who were willing to testify to all manner of Harassment that forced them out of their apartments. You did this overnight? Yeah, I couldn't sleep anyway. Kept thinking I felt bedbugs. Oh, he looks at you, backs up.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He does a bull all the way down.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He looks me up and down and just does a step back.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, that's very good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thank you for pointing that out. That's one of those little joys.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, that's great. Thank you. There's a thing that's happening in this scene, too. After Gabriel leaves, which, again, I love this scene. Harvey's getting proud of M. Mike's working hard and coming up with creative solutions to hard problems. But then he goes back into the conference room, and we have this moment where we see Mike remembering the details, you know, the flashbacks. Oh, the foot crosses the threshold of the. You see him putting it together for his own aha moment. Yeah, that's a thing that just starts disappearing from the show, I think. Right. We were really playing. We've seen a couple of it. We saw it happen in the pilot a couple of times. And I think, again, put it on the list of things to talk to Aaron about. But I think in this first season, you see us trying to do it, trying to visually represent Mike's brilliant mind and his ability to remember details that maybe most people don't notice, but you can tell that, like, the show doesn't really want to be doing it that way. And it does stick out. I notice it when I'm watching it in this scene. And it takes you out. In fact, takes you out of the story. Rather than put you into Mike's perspective, which I think it's wanting to do, it somehow takes us out of it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, isn't it something that happens a lot and more procedural type things?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I remember when I was. I did Without a Trace.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, you remember I did that show too.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So, like, I think that was something that was done for that. But we moved away from being serialized or we moved towards being serialized, which is the right answer.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No. Yeah, I think it's. We are more. We became more serialized as we went. And I think it is like a. It's a sort of easy tool for like, hey, remember this thing? Look how smart. And I think you're right. Like, I think our show, ultimately, it wanted you to either remember, and if you didn't remember, let the writing do the reminding you. Aaron is a great writer and he really wants the words to do the job. And I think ultimately the show needed that. We needed to play it, and the words needed to do it anyway. Continue.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So in a different conference room, Harvey and Jessica meet with Quentin and the plaintiffs. And Harvey has taken out his own ad soliciting feedback on the drug. And Quentin reveals that he too has als. They offer the plaintiffs a share of ownership in the company so Quentin can continue the research. And I just want to say that my emotions were so successfully manipulated in this scene. It is so beautiful. It's great writing. You get double acting by Russell. You have a Russell acting behind himself on the screen behind him. And you've got. And he's kind of flanked by both Jessica and Harvey.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And having all those people in the room, I think. I mean, we've been talking about plaintiffs, and I think seeing people, just human beings in that room that we now can like, visually imagine they're going through this horrible disease is very powerful.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And that's what something that Jessica in an earlier scene said, like when you had all the files on your lap and it was really funny, like, the files got dropped in your lap. And then she sort of took the part of saying, these are people. These are people that we have empathy for. These are people, humans who are struggling.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. And now we get to see them.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

If we had a lawyer on our payroll, I would love to know if this is a thing that you're allowed to do in a class action suit, if you're allowed to just approach the people and go, we'll give you a stake of the company. I don't know, are you allowed to do this? Because it's kind of brilliant.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, I'd love.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a great move.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You want it to be something that could happen. So, I mean, if it is a fantasy scenario, they brilliantly created that. Because at the end of the day, like, our show is all about any show, Any storytelling is about first. The first thing we have to do is we have to suspend disbelief. Everybody does. And I mean, we start suits with that. We've got to suspend the disbelief that this guy can pretend he went to Harvard and get this job.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So. So if. Let's say that this is not a real thing that could happen. It still is a beautiful. They did it beautifully. Because I was so emotional during this. And we care so much about it because finally we're just saying, can we all just reach into our humanity here and come together? I mean, it's beautiful. It's what we need right now.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So Act 5, we wrap things up with Harvey and Jessica having settled the Sands case to everyone's satisfaction. Mike brings his first time case To a successful close. And feeling victorious, he asks Rachel out. She hesitantly turns him down. But before we get to that, there's a great scene. After finding out their offer was accepted, Jessica and Quentin share a celebratory moment in her office. I just love. This was, like, favorite scene. It's just so chill, right? Two clearly really good actors that just, like, made it very real. There's this great. When she says at the end, I was mad.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Play her saying that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Can we play that scene? It's just so Gina.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It just makes you like, it's Gina. Yes, it's Gina. You're like, there's my friend.

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You remember that time that your Jag.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Got sideswiped when it was parked outside the house?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nordstrom Ad]

It didn't exactly go down that way.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I was mad. That's Gina. That's it. That's Gina. Yeah. I love that scene. It's such a small. It's funny. It sneaks up. There's so many other great scenes in this. There's funny scenes or showy scenes. That takes away. I think that runs away with the best scene of the episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But we needed that. We need to see that part of Jessica.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, that's it. That's what this episode has given us. That's a gift of this episode is like, now you know this woman and you a different side of her, and you're going to get that other version of her that's being the pro, but you know that that's back there somewhere. And then from there, Harvey accompanies Mike to visit the landlord and Tanaka Mike's evidence bedbug infested carpet that Kinsky installed in Frank's apartment in order to drive him out. Let's talk about how much this is going to cost you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Were you really stressed about Mike's well being after he interacted with that rug? Like, when you were watching it as a viewer, not the guy who played him. Like, I was. I was just like. Just.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't know. Again, I think I'm, like, really in the dark about bedbugs and how intense they are. So I don't. I have no. I don't have the same reaction to bedbugs. Cause I've never had this experience. So it sounds awful, but, like, you watching it makes me think I should have been more queasy about that situation. I mean, he was wearing gloves. Isn't that okay? Or is this a situation where Mike was gonna have to burn all of his clothes when he gets home?

[Sarah Rafferty]

What are we getting from the booth? We're getting nods that he would have to.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, I would have to burn everything.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And burn all your hair. I mean, in my mind, I wanna think that that was not actually. I was telling myself it wasn't actually the same car.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, yeah, I just bought. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think it was the real carpet. Oh, you think it was actually the real car. I think Mike went out and bought the same carpet and is just putting it down and showing it. Are they really drinking champagne in the scene? Like, that is a real James Bond villain moment. Like sipping champagne on their. In their. In their skyscraper condo, laughing at us, the poor people. I don't know. I thought that was very. And I'm so bummed we don't get more Vivian Tanaka. I thought that she was a real standout of this episode. Lots of great actors here, but she.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Was terrific and I appreciate that. We have a note here from Kristen that this is it for Christina Chang on suits, but that you can find her starring in the Good Doctor.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, nice. All right. And I will. Mike visits Lewis office to let him know that not only did he win the pro bono, but he brought in 15 paying clients.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I love this.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Another great Mike Lewis scene. Mike and Rachel laugh about their married life. And then Mike asks Rachel out for real, but she can't date anyone from the office. You know, this is a great scene. Mike shoots his shot. The show's been setting up that he, you know, obviously from the very beginning is in love with Rachel. And so he's gonna try and translate the sort of fun they had on this case into maybe a real date. And we get a piece of music. Can we pull up this scene for me? In fact, I think that we should have a date night. Celebrate.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Funny.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Hey, this serious. Suddenly we're in Braveheart. Suddenly we have, like, a Highland fiddle playing in a misty Scottish morning. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but it is a. It is a strange. Every man dies. Not every man really lives.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Was that Mel Gibson or was that Shrek?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love love you. I was off. I want to marry you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Two questions for you. When's. How recently did you watch Braveheart?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Like, I'm off book on Braveheart. What? Yeah, I'm off book on Braveheart.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But I have to ask you, did you notice right away when you were watching it, did you hear the music? Because I didn't hear it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It jumped right out of me. I was like, maybe it's because I was watching it from Scotland. Look again. It works. It was a very Sweet note. And I think the scene is heartbreaking. And you can tell, I thought it's played really beautifully by. By Megan as well. Like, you can tell she wants to. That this is nice, but also hard. No boundaries. I don't do that. And, like, you can tell she's trying to set that very clearly. And, Mike, it's a beautiful scene, but the music just didn't feel like any other music I'd heard on the show before. So, anyway, that's our episode. That is Dirty Little Secrets. And boy, were there some Dirty Little Secrets closing statements where I loved it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It did take me a second to adjust to the shift in the tone, and I think that was great because that was sort of stretched me and expanded me as a viewer. And I really enjoyed, you know, it was interesting. I enjoyed it more and more. Each time I watched it, too. I saw more and more things. I loved it absolutely.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It grew on me. I loved the episode. At first, I wasn't sure if I was loving it, but I think it really established early on that our show can handle something heavier, more serious. And we get such great background and depth to Jessica, who, you know, up until now had been a bit of a mystery to us.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I'm so excited to talk to Gina about this episode and about her experience playing the great Jessica Pearson.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Where are we at goddamn wise? You want to take any guesses? You want to take a swing, Sarah?

[Sarah Rafferty]

None.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You're saying zero? Can't remember. I'm going to go.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I was too distracted by The Braveheart Music 3.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There are zero. Whoa. You already knew that. You said it confidently.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I did not know that, but I couldn't remember one.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So that takes us to a grand total of.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, we're still at 13.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It was 13. Well, I don't remember. Oh, that's how addition works.

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God damn it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, that's a wrap on Dirty Little Secrets. Thank you all so much for coming back. As always, we want to hear from all of you. So if you have any questions, thoughts or ideas of other things you'd like to hear from us here on the pod, please send your emails to sidebar podcast at Siri. And if you want to record an audio clip of the question, please go for it. Then we can play it on the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Can't wait to hear from you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thanks, everybody. Look forward to seeing you next week.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thank you. Bye.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Sidebar is produced by Sara Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams and SiriusXM Media. Our senior producer is Kimmy Gregory, and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader. Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez and our audio mix is by Eduardo Perez. Our music is by Brendan Burns and our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin Anderson. Netcredit is here to say yes because you're more than a credit score. Apply in minutes and get a decision as soon as the same day. Loans offered by Netcredit or lending partner banks and serviced by NetCredit. Applications subject to review and approval. Learn [e-mail] partners NetCredit credit to the.

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People this episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. It's a season of wonder all the way. At Nordstrom, you'll find the best gifts for every you love, plus party ready looks for every occasion. It's easy with free shipping and returns in store order, pickup and more. Shop today in stores [e-mail].