Dog Fight

Summary

Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast - Season 1 Finale Summary: "Dog Fight"

Introduction

In the season one finale of "Suits," titled "Dog Fight," hosts Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty delve deep into the intricate dynamics and pivotal moments that define this critical episode. As former cast members portraying Mike Ross and Donna Paulsen, Patrick and Sarah bring unique insights, personal anecdotes, and behind-the-scenes revelations to their discussion, offering both longtime fans and newcomers a comprehensive understanding of why "Suits" has garnered such a dedicated following.

Episode Overview

"Dog Fight," originally aired on September 8, 2011, written by Aaron Korsh and directed by Kevin Bray, serves as a culmination of the season's intense plotlines. The episode primarily revolves around Harvey Specter's (Gabriel Macht) relentless pursuit to exonerate Clifford Danner (Neil Brown Jr.), an innocent man wrongfully imprisoned for murder. Concurrently, the episode explores the complexities of Mike Ross (Patrick J. Adams) and Rachel Zane's (Meghan Markle) relationship, as well as the unwelcome return of Trevor Evans (Tom Lipinski), adding layers of personal conflict and suspense.

Key Plot Points

1. Harvey's Legal Battle:

   • Harvey's determination to free Clifford Danner from prison faces significant resistance from the newly appointed District Attorney, Terrence Wolfe (Shai McBride). The legal maneuvering showcases Harvey's strategic brilliance and unwavering commitment to justice.
   • Notable Quote:
     Harvey Specter: "I'm not here for your absolution. I'm here for your redemption."
     (Timestamp: 10:59)
     This line encapsulates Harvey's ethos and sets the tone for his approach throughout the episode.

2. Mike and Rachel's Relationship:

   • The episode delves into the strained relationship between Mike and Rachel, highlighting their evolving dynamics and the emotional toll of balancing personal and professional lives.
   • Notable Quote:
     Rachel Zane: "Do you have your Hershey's?"
     (Timestamp: 30:12)
     A lighthearted moment that underscores the show's ability to blend humor with serious themes.

3. Trevor's Return:

   • Trevor Evans' unexpected comeback introduces new tensions, compelling Mike to confront his past and reassess his current standing.
   • Notable Quote:
     Trevor Evans: "I need you."
     (Timestamp: 59:51)
     This brief yet impactful statement ramps up the impending conflict.

Behind-the-Scenes Insights

Patrick and Sarah share several memorable behind-the-scenes stories that offer a glimpse into the production's collaborative spirit:

1. Directorial Genius of Kevin Bray:

   • Kevin Bray's direction is lauded for its seamless integration of handheld shots and tight close-ups, enhancing the episode's emotional intensity.
   • Notable Quote:
     Sarah Rafferty: "Kevin's in close-ups, tight on you, tight on Gabriel. The performances can be really small and subtle and nuanced..."
     (Timestamp: 27:52)
     Highlighting Bray's expertise in visual storytelling.

2. Improvisation and Character Development:

   • Several scenes, such as the playful "can opener" ritual between Harvey and Donna, were partially improvised, adding authenticity and depth to their characters.
   • Notable Quote:
     Patrick J. Adams: "I went in being like, I know that this is me. I can do this. Give me the job."
     (Timestamp: 04:35)
     Reflecting on the audition process and character portrayal.

3. On-Set Chemistry:

   • The rapport between Patrick and Sarah is evident, with shared jokes and spontaneous interactions enhancing their discussion.
   • Notable Quote:
     Sarah Rafferty: "I love that you're a giant over there. So tall."
     (Timestamp: 24:03)
     A playful exchange illustrating their camaraderie.

Character Highlights

1. Donna Paulsen's Empowerment:

   • Donna's assertiveness reaches new heights as she confronts Harvey about her misconduct in handling evidence, showcasing her growth and emotional intelligence.
   • Notable Quote:
     Donna Paulsen: "I don't care."
     (Timestamp: 24:40)
     Her defiant stance marks a critical turning point in her character arc.

2. Harvey Specter's Strategic Prowess:

   • Harvey's innovative tactics, including orchestrating a pre-trial ritual with Donna and leveraging DNA evidence, demonstrate his tactical ingenuity.
   • Notable Quote:
     Harvey Specter: "We have to wait for Clifford."
     (Timestamp: 16:04)
     Emphasizing his patient yet relentless approach.

3. Mike Ross's Moral Compass:

   • Mike grapples with ethical dilemmas, especially regarding his secret of being a fraud, as he navigates his relationship with Rachel and his legal battles.
   • Notable Quote:
     Mike Ross: "I don't think I'm doing this right."
     (Timestamp: 35:58)
     Reflecting his internal conflict and desire for authenticity.

Technical Aspects

1. Cinematography and Lighting:

   • The use of warm and cool color palettes effectively distinguishes scenes' emotional tones. For instance, the blue hues in Clifford's courtroom scenes contrast with the warmer, intimate settings in Harvey's office.
   • Notable Quote:
     Sarah Rafferty: "The color palette was all worked together in this scene. Did you notice that, like, it's all blues and grays?"
     (Timestamp: 67:30)
     Demonstrating the intentional visual choices that enhance storytelling.

2. Music and Sound Design:

   • The strategic placement of songs like "Running with Insanity" by Alcoholic Faith Mission and "Heartaches and Pain" by Charles Bradley amplifies the narrative's emotional impact.
   • Notable Quote:
     Patrick J. Adams: "Heartaches and pain by Charles Bradley. That's like the third Charles Bradley song."
     (Timestamp: 70:25)
     Highlighting the show's curated musical landscape.

3. Editing Techniques:

   • Kevin Bray's dynamic editing maintains high tension and engagement, especially during courtroom scenes and personal confrontations.
   • Notable Quote:
     Patrick J. Adams: "Kevin does a lot of interesting editing... It keeps the tension up."
     (Timestamp: 16:14)
     Acknowledging the director's mastery in pacing and structure.

Notable Scenes and Moments

1. The Can Opener Ritual:

   • A mysterious and intimate ritual between Harvey and Donna, involving a can opener, symbolizes their deep bond and unspoken understanding.
   • Notable Quote:
     Donna Paulsen: "We have to wait a sec to find out what exactly Mike's idea is."
     (Timestamp: 66:55)
     Alluding to the ritual's significance in their professional and personal relationship.

2. Donna Confronts Harvey:

   • In a powerful confrontation, Donna stands up to Harvey regarding her unauthorized handling of evidence, showcasing her growth and the shifting power dynamics within the firm.
   • Notable Quote:
     Donna Paulsen: "You don't have time. You're about to do something really goofy."
     (Timestamp: 41:08)
     Illustrating her newfound assertiveness.

3. Clifford Danner's Exoneration:

   • The climax of the episode sees Mike and Harvey presenting critical DNA evidence that could exonerate Clifford, culminating in a tense courtroom showdown.
   • Notable Quote:
     Mike Ross: "I saw it, so you tried to hide it from me."
     (Timestamp: 49:35)
     Signifying Mike's awareness and the unraveling of the case.

Behind-the-Scenes Anecdotes

1. Filming the "Can Opener" Scene:

   • Sarah recalls the meticulous setup by Kevin Bray, who orchestrated the scene with minimal verbal instructions, relying on intuitive direction to capture the perfect moment.
   • Notable Quote:
     Sarah Rafferty: "Kevin just has it ready. Definitely a vibe worked into it."
     (Timestamp: 38:03)
     Highlighting Bray's trust in his actors' instincts.

2. Improvisation and Spontaneity:

   • The spontaneous interactions between Patrick and Sarah during filming add authenticity to their podcast discussion, as they reminisce about unplanned on-set moments.
   • Notable Quote:
     Sarah Rafferty: "We do a lot of that."
     (Timestamp: 32:05)
     Emphasizing the organic chemistry that translates into the podcast.

Reflections and Conclusions

As "Dog Fight" concludes season one, Patrick and Sarah reflect on the show's evolution, character developments, and the challenges ahead. They express both excitement and apprehension about the direction of future seasons, acknowledging the complexities of maintaining narrative momentum and character authenticity.

Notable Quote:
Patrick J. Adams: "I have this insane experience at the end of this season of getting nominated for a SAG Award, which happens after this season..."
(Timestamp: 83:05)
Discussing the personal and professional milestones that coincide with the show's success.

Final Thoughts

The hosts commend the episode's writing, casting, and directing, emphasizing how each element synergistically contributes to the show's phenomenon status. They tease upcoming episodes and special guest appearances, promising continued in-depth analyses and exclusive insights.

Notable Quote:
Sarah Rafferty: "It's my favorite this first watch episode 'cause it's all the most loves moments and stuff."
(Timestamp: 05:00)
Expressing her personal connection to the episode's heartwarming moments.

Looking Forward

In anticipation of the next season, Patrick and Sarah hint at exciting developments, including a special episode featuring Aaron Korsh and Kevin Bray. They invite listeners to engage with the podcast through reviews and listener questions, fostering a vibrant and interactive community.

Conclusion

"Suits" season one finale, "Dog Fight," encapsulates the essence of the show—blending legal drama with rich character development and sharp wit. Through Patrick and Sarah's engaging summary, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the episode's intricacies and the collaborative effort that makes "Suits" a standout series.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Harvey Specter: "I'm not here for your absolution. I'm here for your redemption."
   (10:59)

2. Sarah Rafferty: "Kevin's in close-ups, tight on you, tight on Gabriel. The performances can be really small and subtle and nuanced..."
   (27:52)

3. Donna Paulsen: "I don't care."
   (24:40)

4. Patrick J. Adams: "We have to wait for Clifford."
   (16:04)

5. Mike Ross: "I saw it, so you tried to hide it from me."
   (49:35)

6. Sarah Rafferty: "I love how it cuts from Trevor to Mike and Harvey waiting for Clifford outside of the prison. It's such a different vibe."
   (63:09)

These quotes encapsulate pivotal moments and character developments, offering listeners poignant takeaways from the episode.

Transcript

[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

I think I'm gonna go.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I went to the dermatologist, by the way. I got my bumps checked.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Which ones?

[Patrick J. Adams]

My body bumps, and they're good. No biopsies, Nothing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No scraping.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Good shape.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No scrapes, no nothing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Did they scrape your nuts?

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's next week. And welcome to Dogfight.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Sidebar, a Suits Watch podcast. My name is Sarah Rafferty, and I'm.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Patrick Adams, and we were both actors on the TV show Suits. But this is our first time actually watching the show, and this week we.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Watched season one episode 12, Dogfight. But before we dive in, before we.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Dive in, how are you? I'm good. I can't believe we're at the end Here. How am I, though? Let's not get into that, though. Look what I brought.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Today you have a show and tell.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Tell the audience what this is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is a. I. Oh, was that like a kiwi crate project? Did somebody make that?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Aurora made that. And she told me I had to bring it with me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Can I touch it?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Is it a little fox?

[Patrick J. Adams]

It is a little fox. And she was really, like, committed to me having it, which is rare. So that was a good papa moment.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a Baby Bjorn sling.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's pretty good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's so good. I love it. Can I hold it for the show?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's switch back and forth when we need it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm not gonna be good at sharing today.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, well, that's a great way to start any kind of dialogue or conversation experience.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm not gonna share.

[Patrick J. Adams]

This isn't gonna go well.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Guess what I did yesterday.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What'd you do?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I watched On Call, the first episode of Troian Bellisario's new show in the Dick Wolf universe. And, oh, my gosh, I was floored.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She's great, right?

[Sarah Rafferty]

She is so transformed. She is so great.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wait.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So compelling.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wait for episode four. Five.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, you're telling me it's gonna get better? Because it keeps.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There's eight episodes. I have not finished it yet, in all honesty. Cause I'm on six now. Because we're now watching it at night. She allows me to watch it while she sits next to me in bed, which is really nice. Lies next to me. We don't sit in bed. We lie in bed. She. By 4 and 5, it's like I don't even know who I'm watching anymore. It's so good. She's so good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Troian has disappeared. And her character, you know, it's so funny.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We don't. This will be for our on call podcast. But, like, this was one of those auditions that, you know, we talked about our auditions for this show. And, like, I don't know, I went in being like, I know that this is me. I can do this. Give me the job. And those are great auditions where you're like, there's no. There's a thin line between what you need and what I know. I can deliver this for her. You know, I don't think I'm speaking out of school was one of those auditions. It was like, not in a million years.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Like, this will never be me. I will never get this.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's exactly how I would have felt when I saw that character. I Was like, this transformation takes so much. I want to say work, but, like, conjuring. I also love seeing a woman in this starring role in a show with this kind of grit.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And realism.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's different when you showed the billboard on your Instagram, like, it's Troyant.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Driving that cop car.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Anyway, so proud of her. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

How are you otherwise? Before we dive in here, I'm excited.

[Sarah Rafferty]

For talking about this show.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Me too. Let's get into the briefs.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Today we're breaking down season one, episode 12, dogfight. This episode was written by Aaron Korsh and directed by Kevin Bray. We've got our dream team back together again. And it originally aired on Thursday, September 8, 2011.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And in this episode, Harvey works to get an innocent man released from prison. But the new district attorney puts up a fight. Things come to a head with Mike and Rachel's relationship, and Trevor's back in town.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, no. The facts from our firm's best researcher, Kiki. Shoot dates August 4th to 12th. Episodes 107 and 108 aired while we were shooting this. And on August 11th, our second to last day, USA announced that we were getting a second season, which I believe I have a video of, and we'll put it on our socials.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You do?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think I have a video of the moment where. When we were told that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Where were you? Where were you standing?

[Patrick J. Adams]

We were on set. We were on the first stage in the corner. I can't remember what scene we were shooting. It was kind of near the bathroom. No, the bathroom. We're kind of near the bathroom set, which I don't think we shot in here. So I don't know what it would have been.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But do you remember how you felt going into this last episode? Like, did it feel like the last one of the season? Were you tired? Were you excited? Were you?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think I must have been really excited. We've talked. I mean, tired. Yeah. So tired. I'm always tired and excited to go home. You know what I mean? We've been away from home. This is. At this point. I've been away from Troian this whole time. I think I'm just excited to not be operating at a nervous excitement every single day. I was, like, ready to go home and chill. And also, I think I don't remember how it felt to get the news about the second season, but what a gift that is to know we get to leave set without wondering and that we're gonna be coming back and how.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Keke can you chime in on this? How were the ratings and what were the press releases like around this kind of moment?

[Kiki]

It was an interesting time because we weren't actually counting any sort of DVR or any streaming or anything like that. So the big win was to be a cable show that beat the Networks. So the 10pm slot on Thursday nights suits was beating all cable and broadcast networks.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No way. Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't remember that fact. Yeah, that's funny.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That is a fun fact.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We had a hit on our hands.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. How many million does that mean? Ish. That we were pulling in on the night?

[Kiki]

Total viewers was generally about 6 million people. But again, that doesn't necessarily mean that's all that was watching it because we had DVR at that point. We had video on Demand and those numbers were not counted for a couple more years.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So.

[Kiki]

So there were probably several more hundred people that were television.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Probably like 40 or 50 million.

[Kiki]

Probably.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's my guess.

[Sarah Rafferty]

40 or 50 million. Yeah. Just a cool 40. 50 mil.

[Kiki]

6 million people is no small number when it comes to cable television. That's a pretty great number.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. So, Patrick, when I watched this episode, this was the one that I had the most memories from. I think going forward. I know we got a lot more episodes left, but I think it's gonna be this episode for me because I was so surprised how I was like viscerally back, like in my body in the moment with certain scenes here.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I didn't know that a lot of the scenes that we're gonna get to, I didn't remember that they were in the finale. But they loomed large for me and I could almost. This is so weird. It's like I could almost feel. Playing the beat. Like I could feel it in my body on certain lines.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, you have some amazing moments in this episode. So it's actually kind of funny that they live in your body. Cause I feel you are in your. You're in the pocket, so to speak, in this episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And the funny thing is, you know, I remember nothing, but I remember how that felt.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. But I think there's something that happens. They seem to line up our like, core memories, so to speak. Like where we're like, oh, I remember. Seem to line up with the moments in the show that are working really well. Do you know what I mean? Like, something's really cooking. Sometimes you have a memory. It's like, oh, I remember this was very uncomfortable too. But I think that thing where we like go into our body.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And we're like Yes. I could be in that moment. Seems to be when something drops in creatively.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's so cool. I love that idea, though, of building core memories. You process them through your body, but that you can build core memories that are made up. Things like as actors, like, I'm still carrying some core memories that were, like, half me, half Donna, but it's.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, but it's, like, not made up, right? Because it's. You're still in the moment, like, trying to make a scene work and it works. And that. That working. That, like, ooh, we're in it. This is it. Like, this is it working. It's probably that feeling that, like, we remember. Right. I'm just so excited going into this. We got the team back together. We have Aaron Korsh. So right off the bat of watching this episode, we have Aaron and Kevin back together. And I feel like it's the dream team. We're all there. We haven't all been together the way that we were together shooting this episode since the first and second episode together. So that makes me excited to watch.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We've got some great one liners in this episode. Can you think of some off your dome? Just right off the top of your dome? Like, who said this? I'm not here for your absolution. I'm here for your redemption.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Ah, that's Harvey in the teaser. Who else? What else you got for me?

[Sarah Rafferty]

That is Harvey.

[Patrick J. Adams]

This is a good game. We should do this every week.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Throw lines at each other, lit nothing and nobody.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, that's Jessica.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You can never go back.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, we know who that is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How do we know that?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Because you just said it perfectly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I can't wait to get to Killer Beans.

[Patrick J. Adams]

All right, let's get into.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, let's get into it. I thought this was a fun game, and now you're trying to end it. I thought you were gonna do some backstory.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm excited. I'm so into it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. Okay. Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I want to get to that scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We open in Mike's apartment where Jenny is testing his memory and Trevor drops by, but Mike is able to keep him from seeing Jenny.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Good. Needle drop. Running with Insanity by Alcoholic Faith Mission.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yep.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You know them well.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I named every album.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I named that band. I named that band.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The shirt's back.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The shirt is back.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Shirt's back.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You can't escape the shirt back. She. You know what she does? She needs, like, a little cute backpack that she carries with her every day so she can have her things at Mike's apartment. Because I don't understand why she doesn't have, like, little jammies.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She'd have her own shirt by now, for sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I feel like there would be a couple of things that she needed.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She's literally exactly the same shirt. It's as if she has not left this apartment.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I just wonder why she won't have a home game. Why is she always having an away game? It's something we'll have to unpack later.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Especially when we get to see her apartment later. And it's pretty great. Gorgeous.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We'll talk about it when we get there.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's gorgeous. Why are we hanging out there? But I will say, in this scene, you notice how beautifully it's shot.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. Yes. Kevin Bray is here. You can feel it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You can feel it. We come up off the bed, we have that sun pouring through the window. Like, it doesn't feel like a set. It feels alive. It feels like I can hear Brooklyn outside. It feels very. It's handheld, which I want to talk a lot about in this episode, because I think it's one of the things Kevin does. Knows when to use, and he uses it perfectly. And to start the scene with the sort of beautiful handheld shot coming off the bed and these two.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Is this a bed or is it a couch?

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's our bed. That's our bed.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But there's, like, a headboard that he's coming up and over, correct?

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, he's coming up the side of the bed. Her head is, like, at the end of the bed, and we're coming up at the end of the bed.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, it does seem like a really fun actual game.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Also, this little game we're playing in the bed. I remember this came out of a conversation with Aaron, or many conversations with Aaron about how do we use his brain. We're not doing any. Are we doing anything with it, or is there a way to use it that's not just. He saves the day with the case? What about something fun and interpersonal? And so I seem to remember us having that conversation and then this happening in this episode. And I think it's kind of sweet.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's great. Yeah, it's that thing that I was saying I wished that I had seen with the Rachel character. Like, some of that flirty, fun, joyful connection.

[Patrick J. Adams]

For sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Trevor and Mike talk in a park where Trevor asks to stay with Mike for a few days and tells him that he's turning over a new leaf. And, hey, he might even call Jenny.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's complicated seeing him again. We'd love to See, Tom. We hate to see Trevor. Anyway, Harvey visits Clifford Danner in prison. And this is our case of the week, or weeks. In this case, Harvey believes Clifford is innocent and he wants to represent him. And of course, this is the introduction of Neil Brown Jr. Who appears in three episodes. And he's amazing. How lucky are we to have him on this?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Incredible.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right away.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He's one of those actors, first of all, just the nicest human being in the world. So happy to be there. Very warm, very easy, very excited. And then action's called, and he's in it. In it. He's there. I love actors like that because you're just like, oh, I just have to listen. Like, you are taking me with you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You know, and especially when you're a guest star, that's hard to do because you feel like, I'll just follow your guys lead. He took full control.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you know those are great actors. Chai, who's also in this episode, is one of those actors as well. So we were blessed. Just somebody who's like, just follow me. I'll take you where we need to go.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And he got. He understood the assignment immediately. And I think it's pretty obvious watching the episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And Gabriel brings an incredible groundedness to this. And what's gonna be amazing is that, you know, right off the bat that this is a deep, grounded, amazing episode. But we're gonna have a lot of light bits to go with it moving forward.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a perfect balance.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so we're into act one at Pierson Hardman. We're getting more background on the Clifford dinner case. In Jessica's office, we see Lewis express concern over the case. And in Harvey's office, Harvey convince Mike why they will win. We shuffle between Lewis and Jessica in her office and Mike and Harvey in his office. So I felt like this was a pretty brilliant way to deal with some exposition that we need right here at the beginning of an episode to have four characters who all have completely different points of view about what's going on.

[Patrick J. Adams]

For sure. Do we check the script on this, too? Is it scripted where the cuts are? Because there's a lot of. Kevin does a lot of interesting editing.

[Kiki]

This is scripted.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It is scripted. Like, Kevin's really good at knowing how to build a sequence together.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And then he does this cutting that. You're like, oh, it's not an exact match to, like, we can go from somebody standing to somebody sitting in the other room. Right. It's not completely in alignment. Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Well. And he's not doing the same thing over and over again. We've had other scenes where it's like, whip, somebody says something. Whip, Somebody says something. Whip. Somebody says something. And so you get ahead of it. I think, as an audience member, you're like, okay, you've done it once, now I know you're gonna do it. And so I'm kind of bored immediately. Like, I know what's gonna happen. Kevin will do one thing and then he'll cut between the scenes on somebody else sitting down and standing up. Like, you never quite know where the cut's coming. So it keeps the tension up.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's so cool. Yes, that is it. That is it. So Mike comes to Rachel to make peace after their fight last episode and he needs her help. I thought this scene was a great example of being able to have both a light bit right in the middle of a very serious topic. Which is something that I think we need to brace ourselves for the fact that we're gonna lose that kind of element of suits as USA goes through a future kind of rebranding into, like, a darker sky.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Situation.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Situation from the blue sky. Mr.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Robot Sky.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I loved this scene. What'd you think of it?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love it. It's fun to see us having fun. I think that's more important than our little problems of two people. Hilla Beans. Casablanca. Oh, I've never seen that movie. You?

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, it's old.

[Lewis]

Old.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, my God. Okay. Gone with the Wind.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No.

[Patrick J. Adams]

City Sinkane.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Dirty Dancing. Nobody puts Back in the corner.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm helping you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

A lot of times these scenes drive me crazy when they solve a problem between two characters really quickly. You know, they built up this huge thing between Rachel and Mike and she doesn't trust them. And, you know, we're done, and then all of a sudden, we just solve it in a scene. Like, as an actor, sometimes I'd be like, this is too easy. You just made us get into this huge fight. And I would love more scenes for us to have to figure out how to. But then when I'm watching it, I'm like, no, this is wonderful. This is our show. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Because of the stakes of getting an somebody exonerated. Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's not about us anymore. Like, how petty would we be to be continuing our nonsense in the context of what's going on here in this?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you have any memories of that comedy stuff? The hill of beans, the baby in the corner? Like, I think some of that was improv because I went back to look at the script and it Wasn't all in there like that. And I do remember having a conversation with Megan after she shot this scene about how much fun you guys had. Had.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, I think it was. And. Cause we don't get that often, you know, That's a very. Louis, Donna, Mike, Harvey, like, we kept getting those moments where it's like, now play. You guys play. And come up with something. But Mike and Rachel didn't get a lot of that, so.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So Mike brings Harvey the research and insists on joining Harvey in person for the hearing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Harvey and Mike present their research to the new district attorney, Terrence Wolfe. Wolfe, of course, played by Shai McBride, who comes back for one episode in season four.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How did you feel being on set with him?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Terrifying. Is he, like, you know, not essential? I just. I don't. I don't know. This was a while ago, but I remember Intimid, and he wasn't much interested in. Not intimidating you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Little bit of a. Not a mean way, but in a way that I think he knew was helpful to the scenes we had. It wasn't like, let's all just be buddies. He's like, I'm gonna be a little scary.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, I love that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That was great. It was great.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So that reminds me of a story that Anne Hathaway told me when we were on set for Devil Wears Prada. I was just there for one day. One day.

[Patrick J. Adams]

God, I always forget that. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wait, wait, wait. Oh, I was cut out of it. Wait, wait, wait. Hold up.

[Kiki]

You were. You were in Devil Wears Prada?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I was cut out?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, no, you're in it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But I'm in the, like, DVD and on the airplane and on cable.

[Kiki]

But what did you play? This is really big news for me. What's happening right now.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We talked about this, didn't we? You. How many, like, did you have many lines?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I had one scene, and I. If you've read the book, I was the amalgamation of all the characters that were like, Miranda Priestly. You work for Miranda Priestly? I'm so jealous. So I was somebody who worked at Calvin Klein, and she had to go pick up some skirts for Miranda. And I remember, actually the moment I had done the table read for that. And I think I've told you guys about being at the table read and how Meryl Streep came into the bathroom afterwards. And I was there with the casting director. And Meryl Streep came in just knowing who she was to everybody in the kindest, most humble, lovely, quirky way. Put her arm around me, looked in the mirror. At the casting director and was like, isn't she great? And, like, patted me on the back.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I'm still dining on that 30 years later. Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She gave me that gift after the table read.

[Sarah Rafferty]

After the table read, because I read everybody else's part who wasn't there. So not Emily Blunt, not Anne Hathaway.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's intimid. That gets my.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It was. I can't believe I was the person who did that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. That's nerve wracking.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh. So what happened was I had done that table read, and then the director was kind enough to, after that, just offer me a one scene part. And I do remember when he called me, I was actually traveling with Santu. He was on a business trip, and I was in Osaka, and my phone rings and I pick it up and it's the director of the Devil Wears Prada. And he was like, I just wanted to tell you before the premiere next week, we had to cut your scene. It was the last thing to go. I swear to God, it was the last thing to be cut. We just needed to get to Meryl Streep faster.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And, yeah, you need to get to.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Meryl Streep as fast as possible.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, exactly. So it was really, really, really a really sweet thing. What was interesting about it was that they did put my scene back in for kind of the outside of the theatrical release.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What made you think of that story right now?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Anne Hathaway on set that day said that Meryl Streep was kind of doing the shy McBride thing with you. She was saying, we're not chatting.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

There's no warmth. There's just. We're just here for work. And she was clear that they were gonna carry that relationship through until the end of shooting, which makes perfect sense.

[Patrick J. Adams]

As long. I think.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So I'm just interested.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think as long as it's understood. Like, I am not doing this to you. I just want to protect this thing that we're building.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We can go get a coffee when we're done.

[Sarah Rafferty]

In three weeks or whatever.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Months. Let's go get dinner.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And nine years of your.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But I don't want to. But that's a good point. Like, that's a sustainable model in a film or whatever, but it's not sustainable in television that you're going to be doing season after season. But when you're a guest star and you're like, I'm only here for the week and you're as insanely talented as Shai is, you just do it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I consulted Bonnie's notebook about this, because I was like, obviously, this was an offer. And she was like, it was. And I said, how did you get Aaron to know that Shai was gonna be Terrence Wolfe? And she said that she showed him multiple reels. And what was interesting was that she showed him Neal McDonough's and Michael Harney's for this part. Yeah. But then they come back later.

[Patrick J. Adams]

They do.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And so both Aaron and Bonnie have spoken to that, that you make that impression. They're gonna put you in later. Right. They're gonna find something for you. So it's always, always worth it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. I wish we'd gotten more of Terrence Wolfe. He's a great character.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And just one little tiny thing that I have to say is fashion police. There are three very different suits and ties in this scene when you guys are just in a little triangle there, and they all work together. There's two blue suits, but they're different enough that they work together. The ties are all really chic and elevated, and they all work together. Nothing takes you out. Basically, what Jolie has done, she is the unsung hero here because she's able to keep the show really visually interesting. In terms of the wardrobe here, you're all your characters, and it says a lot, but nothing is screaming out of the way frame and grabbing attention. But everything works together in a color palette. It's kind of amazing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a good point.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She'll do it again later.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He's also a tall guy. Yeah, he's a giant. So tall.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, he's tall.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Towering over Gabriel in the scene. Anyway, Harvey then calls Donna into his office. He knows that she turned over evidence. Jessica interrupts to defend Donna. Things resolve, but Harvey is still angry. What do you remember about this scene?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I remember this scene so well.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, tell me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think this is where Donna got a lot of backbone. Like, I honestly remembered when I. I remember what it felt like to get up from my desk, walk into the room, and then have him say his first line. That turns me around. Like, you talking to me like that. Like, what is this tone? Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love that turnaround in your voice.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And it's funny because I know that I said the line, I don't care twice, and we cut the beat out. Like, there were two times that she said, I don't care, and we cut the first beat out. So the second one is the more like, I don't care. Like, I. She's righteous, right? She knows that she did the right thing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wait, and that got cut Out. Or that's the one that stays.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The second one stayed.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, got it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That always bugs me, right? When you're like, but these beats go together. Like, you can't cut part of a beat.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You know, you have no control. You don't know what ends up in the edit.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Absolutely no control over those things. But it's interesting because she says the I don't care thing, and then in comes Jessica. So we find out that she doesn't care because she's righteously knows that she's doing the right thing, and she's got the most important person on her side in doing it. And then when she leaves and says, you're welcome. I don't know. For some reason, that was so fun to say.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, I bet it's delicious. Do you think? But Donna knew this was coming. There was no. Like, when he comes and says, in my office, is it a surprise? I mean, there was no world in which he wasn't gonna find out that you had gone by, that you. That. That Donna had gone behind his back.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No. And I think. But his petulant tone or his, like, his, like, need to pull. Attempt to pull rank in this moment just shows Donna being so much more emotionally intelligent than him, because he's like, hey, we work because I trust you, because you're here and I'm here kind of thing. And she's like, no, please, I'm. I'm. I'm four steps ahead of you, and you're welcome. You'll see. I don't even need this. Like, you can sit in here and pout. But this was right. And I think that's why the you're welcome was so delicious to me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And so I guess this is where we've learned what's in that package. We talked about it last week. A bloody camisole?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The letter.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't believe the letter's in there. It's the evidence that was absolutely buried that has DNA evidence on it. Maybe the letter is.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think the letter was inadmissible as well, originally. And this bloody camisole, it was hidden.

[Sarah Rafferty]

By Cameron Dennis, Right? And what we find out in the scene with Terrence, somebody's delivered some evidence that's been hidden for a while. And Harvey's like, that's not me. And then he gets the idea right there in that scene. In that previous scene, and he knows it's Donna, and he goes after Donna. So you're right. Like, she knew this was gonna happen. She's been holding onto that thing. I mean, she's done something illegal. She stole something from the ADA's office. She took it with her on exit. Right. So that's why I literally can remember what it felt like to walk into that scene, because I was like, this is a different lady. Like, she's just, like, taking up space.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Also shout out to people just showing up in offices at the exact moment that they need to.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, we do a lot of that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

God, we're good on suits at that. Just, like, right at the moment where if they had come a second later, they wouldn't have heard the line. They just show up right on that perfect line, and they're right there and. As if they've heard the whole conversation.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Exactly.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It was in this scene where I think, something you've noticed, too, the closeups.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He stays in close ups. Right. As soon as you guys get into that office, Kevin's in close ups, tight on you, tight on Gabriel. The performances can be really small and subtle and nuanced and this sort of heartbreak and betrayal that he's trying to experience and that you're experiencing in real time. If you cut to a wide there, we would have lost it. But Kevin stays. Stays in there tight. And then you've got Jessica arrives in a tight as well.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She arrives in the tight. We don't see her coming into the full view. Yeah. And what's interesting is when he's choosing also to be right in front of you. Like, it's a full. You can see both the eyes, and a lot of the Mike stuff is even closer, and it's from the side. So there's an intimacy with Mike that I think is even different because of just the angle of your face. It's as if we're, like, right next to you, you know, like, looking at you as if we were there.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He loves me. Kevin Bray loves.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He does. And I'm gonna point out one place where he does. It's so obvious. It's really obvious he has a big crush on him over it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Kevin Bray. Oh, my God.

[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, it's a brand new year. It's 2025, and do you know what comes with a new year?

[Sarah Rafferty]

What?

[Patrick J. Adams]

All sorts of new opportunities to reimagine ourselves. More importantly, our wardrobes. And we can refresh your look with quality pieces and stay on budget with Quince. From their cozy Mongolian cashmere sweaters to their activewear that's designed to move with you during your workout, all Quince pieces are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And they're able to do that by partnering directly with top factories, cutting out the cost of the middleman, and passing the savings on to you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I just got some great towels, Patrick. They are the coziest, softest, best things. And I tried to hide them in my bathroom and my kids came in and they immediately took them.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Big towels? How big are we talking?

[Sarah Rafferty]

They're just like those big bath towels you can wrap yourself up in. And they're so great and soft and beautiful. I love them.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You know, that's funny. I'm in the market for towels.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Ooh.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So I'm going. I'm going right now.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'll send you the link.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm going to quince.com so upgrade your closet this year without the upgraded price tag. Go to quince.com sidebar for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I N C E To get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com sidebar.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So then Mike and Jenny discuss Trevor at her apartment, and they decide to tell Trevor about their relationship sometime in the future. Do you want me to resay that? Because I it up so bad.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I liked Trevalo. That was Trevalo.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so Mike and Jenny discuss Trevor at her apartment, and they decide to tell Trevor about their relationship sometime in the future.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But not now.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, so forget what I said about home games. She. She. She. She has a huge apartment, and I think she's just gotta have roommates in there.

[Patrick J. Adams]

When you say forget about home games.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What do you mean? Like, why doesn't she have a home game? Why doesn't she get. Hook up with you at her home game?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Like, you're speaking sports talk. Home games. Come play my sports.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like she's not doing the. The hosting. But then when I see that apartment is so big, she's got to have like, six roommates, and they got to put up some fake walls that don't.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Go up or she has some job that's paying her.

[Kiki]

There's an angle, though, where you can see her bed. Like, it's a studio, not a. Not a place with rooms with.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, you can see the bed in the back.

[Kiki]

So I don't know that she has roommates. And, like, what?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think she just has a really.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But she has a drafting table. So she's an artist of some kind, right? It's right there.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Good job, Jenny. We should be there more often. I'll tell you why we're not there. Because we don't actually own that set, and it's a real apartment. So that's why we're hanging out at Mike's apartment. So in court, the DA Throws a curveball at Harvey's case. While Harvey tries to prove Clifford's innocence, the DA Will pursue life in prison if Clifford is found guilty. Harvey and Mike discuss options with Clifford, and Mike opens up to Clifford on why to trust Harvey.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you practice those before we get here?

[Patrick J. Adams]

No.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Practice them because I can't see them very well. I guess I have to figure that out.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We need to talk to your.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, it's the light. It's the little flares off. Okay, so Mike's magic math brain is here. I know that you felt like it was going away. It's there for a second because you understand the halfway point.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Perfect example of, like, exactly what I would have wanted as an actor, where it's like, I don't. It's not about me saying anything. It's just cool. It's just a cool, beautiful moment of like, oh, he. He sees things before other people see them, because his brain can do that. Kind of weird Math. I loved that. Such a nice detail.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's linked to his empathy because it's. Which is really important because Mike is going to tell Clifford his secret. So we got to add Clifford to the list of people who know that's true.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Which I didn't. Which I did not remember until it happened here.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I love it. And Kevin's so close on your face.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, it's very tight. It's a little too tight for my.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Really. I feel like if I was sitting there, I could feel your breath on my cheek. And also, I feel like it tells us that we are Mike in some way. Like, this is how we are seeing this.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Identification.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, from your point of view. We are you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you think that lasts the whole show?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I do. I'm finding this whole season, I've had so many where I feel like I know that I'm following Mike's journey on it. Even when you talk about that scene that we've already talked about that introduces Shai's character, you're, like, a couple steps behind. Right. And we're. You. Like, there's something about the framing of it is that we just sort of have Mike's point of view on it. I don't know what else I think.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I agree. I think this season I feel it, and I think it'll be interesting as we continue, because I think it stopped being that. In some ways, that always happens. You start growing the ensemble and everybody starts getting their thing. But I felt like the point of view of the show shifted. And I remember, you know, and this is ripe emotional material for me, because that's where I started to feel like we had talked about it before with the Beautiful Mind stuff like, oh, did I not do that right? Like, could I do more? Why is that going away? But the big thing was the point of view thing, where I sort of felt like, oh, it felt like. Not that I was the lead of this show. Gabriel's number one on the call sheet. Rightfully so. But I felt like the point of view of the show was like, Mike's world. Mike entering into this world. And I felt like most of this season hung out there, but I think it's about to change. And I think that was hard, and I didn't know how to process that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. So my therapist will be joining us for all 16 episodes next season. I haven't told you that. And then we're back at the hearing. Harvey shares that they will be proceeding to trial. What I love about this whole sequence is what I was talking about. Before, which is. It is handheld. In the room with us. I don't know that. In the little room with the guys. And then once we're in the courtroom, I think it's back on sticks again, which is appropriate. You're informal. You're tight. You're in the mess of it. These people don't know what they're doing. You pop back into the courtroom, now is formality time. Now we have to game plan it. Which is a great. It's a tiny little piece with Harvey just saying, like, no, we're not taking the deal. We're going. We're proceeding to trial. I think that's a perfect example of Kevin knowing, like, no, in here, we want to be messy. Out there, we're formal. We're suits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, that's really interesting. So we're into Act 2, and Jessica informs Harvey that the Danner case is hurting the firm and tells him to forgive Donna.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Donna and Harvey do their thing. Here we go, guys. We've arrived. We have arrived.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think we have to pull it up. We need to have this. We're gonna do a deep dive of this can opener scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I just wanna say, as we're pulling it up, I totally remember Kevin setting up this shot. I remember walking onto set, and Kevin had a different energy. He had. Look at me. Stay with me. Stay with me here. He had this, like, he owned the set. He wasn't using a lot of words. He was like, oh, you're here. Come on. Stand right here. I've got this set up for you. And I remember he, like, tapped the top of the file, and I kind of walked in, like, I'm facing a funny direction. Okay, this is cool. I've never used the back wall of my cubicle. He's like, you're gonna sit here, and he's gonna come in, and you're gonna go. And we're gonna go. And he just started. He just was, like. Had this energy where he didn't use a lot of words. It was like, again, a conjuring. And do you have memories of, like, Kevin just saying things to you? Like, just looking at something, and then he just uses his thumb to point you a little this way, a little that way. He steps in there. He kind of moves it around, and then he just says, go. And it happens.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So let's take a look.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Stunning. First of all. My God. Hey.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Hey.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We're starting trial today.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know. You've got five minutes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Never start a trial without doing our thing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, you don't have time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There's plenty of time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You don't have time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm sorry.

[Sarah Rafferty]

For what?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Don't push it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, let's go. We got three minutes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay.

[Lewis]

Here or my office?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Here's good.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, on three. One, two, Wait.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let's go in your office.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'll get the can opener. And scene. All right. It's so close.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That was a winner. Yeah, that was a Kevin Berry winner.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I literally remember the lens. I remember where the lens was when I had to do that. I'd remember everything about standing there. So crazy to me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, you have good instincts, so you probably knew whatever happened was an iconic moment.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I didn't know that. I mean, I don't think we can know that. I just knew. I knew exactly. I don't have eyes in the back of my head, but there was just something that Kevin was doing. I swear to God, he's like a warlock, a wizard. He's like. I could feel when it was time for Donna to know that Harvey was there. I knew without looking that he was sitting there. I knew just the timing of it, but it was just. Just because of a vibe that Kevin gave. I swear to God.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Again, it's confidence. I think, like, at this point, we know Kevin. We love Kevin. We'll do whatever Kevin wants. We trust him, right? So we get to come onto set, and he's like, yo, just trust me. Sit there. Yeah, he's going to come in. You're going to do that. Everyone, go away. Hair, go away. Everybody. Good, good. We're going to shoot. Other directors who are coming in are like, are you okay? Are you cool?

[Sarah Rafferty]

No.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We can try it that way. We can try it that way because they want to please everybody a different way, which is fine. But Kevin, I think by this point, he was like, I know what I want. Let's do it this way.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I think Kevin, a lot of times is directing from the right side of his brain, right? Like, the more creative side of his brain. So there's not a lot of talking about it, figuring it out, explaining. You don't pop over into the left side of your brain. He's just like, come on in. We're gonna go. And action. And you're just in that discovery. Find it. Use other senses rather than analysis to do it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I think what's fun about watching it for me now, because, of course, I had totally forgotten that the can opener was in the finale of season one. I did not know that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Didn't know either.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I knew it was like their pre Trial ritual. Because of what I remember, of what comes up later when we dig into it a little bit more in the series. But this is also like a little forgiveness jig that they're doing. Like, I love that. That's. That's how they get back.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

From that weird you're here, I'm here, you're welcome moment.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Like that Mike Rachel scene. Like, we have this big moment, but our show's so good at being like. Yeah. And don't worry about it, because they have history and they love each other. And we're gonna have a really cute, fun transitional scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And you're gonna be gut over it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And also, I'm standing and he comes in and he takes my chair. And that's the first time that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And he's lower than you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, exactly.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So you're high up, he's low. He looks like a little boy. You've got all the power. You're in the forefront, and then you switch, and now you're even and you're playful, and then you're gone.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It did. You know what it has? It has kind of like marriage vibes. Because of the way she says, you don't have time the second time now.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Explain that to me. I have so many questions about this scene. What is that? Are you just. What is that reading to me that seems like it's part of the inside joke. Like, I don't understand that reading of the line in a great way. I'm like, huh? Like, it. There's. Obviously, we have no idea what the thing is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right, right, right. But before we even get there, is.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The second read of the word line reflective of whatever the thing is? Are you already leading into it?

[Sarah Rafferty]

So this is the same thing that I said in the scene before when I said that I had to say the line two times. Right. So something has changed. Like she's saying something different. Like, I don't care. I don't care. Right. Like, you're not getting me. And here it happens. And they didn't cut it. Cause it's a oner. So they couldn't. You don't have time. And then he's like, we have plenty of time or whatever. And she's like, you don't have time. Like, you've gotta do something else. You're missing the point. Dum dum, you need to apologize first.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Got it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's not about time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Got it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's like, do I have to, like, think for you? Do I have to do all the emotional labor here?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Got it. So then he gives you what you want.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You don't have time. Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There's also a funny read to it that it's already like that time is somehow a key word to whatever weird ritual you're about to have. Oh. It's not clearly not intentional, but it's sort of fun in that you say it so emphatically and with such a, like, are you hearing what I'm saying? Ish to it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What you're saying is clearly how it was intended. But I love that there's a color of, like, things are getting weird all of a sudden, and then they're about to get really weird. You know, like the beginning of the weirdest time, and then you guys get up to do this thing. Whatever the thing is. You can do it in public, right? You can do it in public. You're about to do it in front of the whole office, and you can do it without the can opener. So the can opener is a non essential component of whatever is about to happen. One, two, three. Wait, no, let's actually do it in the office.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Donna wants it to be private, which.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Is fine, but it didn't need to be.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But who is she protecting? Him or her?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Who knows? Good question. Now let's get into the office. Oh, and I'll bring the can opener, which is just an extra thing. It's not essential. Whatever their thing is that they do doesn't involve a can opener. It can. Doesn't have to, but I guess the can opener makes it really special, which makes it even weirder. If the can opener had been essential, somehow it makes more sense to me the fact that it's like icing on the cake.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Even weirder to me, I think they.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Didn'T have time necessarily. I think I'm remembering now that you say this, the time thing is also like, we don't have time to go in the drawer and get the box and pull out the thing. Like, we're not even in the right spot to do it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Where, like, you don't have time. Nothing but questions. Where would you normally do it? Where are Harvey and Don normally doing it? Private.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Private room. It's always private in his office.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Not particularly private. Glass doors. So would you do it somewhere more private than his office?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm stumped.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't know. I mean, we obviously don't have the answers.

[Sarah Rafferty]

See, the beauty is all the questions and all the questions. What I think of it is that it's their thing, that it's just their thing where they both get to be the the dorkiest version of themselves.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Silly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like Harvey gets to be not Harvey Spector for the five minutes before he goes to trial for this good luck ritual. Right? Like there's something really stupid that they do. We find out later the genesis of it. So I'm not gonna talk about it too much because we see it in another season, the time when they think of the can opener in a flashback. So it's just the thing that's only for them. It's only for them. I love it. So that's why she says, wait, let's do. Let's. Let's go in your office. Because he's. I think. Cause he's about to do something really goofy that. Like you're not Harvey Specter anymore if anybody sees you do this.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, but he could have. He was about to do it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know, I know. So it can't be so maybe she's protecting him.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Can't be that crazy. I love it. I love. You know what I want? Because you fans, all you ask us is, what is the can opener? Is you tell us. I want all the fan theories.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let's do a whole episode.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I don't want something casual. I want in detail what was about to occur after 3, 2, 1. And then needs a can opener to fully facilitate it. I want answers from you. I think we need to have a competition for the best fan answer to that question.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And, you know, this was so. Thank God Kevin directed this scene because again, we didn't talk about it. We didn't figure it out. We didn't talk about what makes sense. There was just a. Like, okay, go. Just believe it. Just. It's a truth. And just do it without knowing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And we could over talk scenes on suits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So Rachel brings Mike his phone and he thanks her for her help. And she sees Jenny calling and she walks away. Jenny calls you and she says that she wants to have a pretrial ritual with Mike. And now I understand. When we were in New York City, why, when we were playing a game about the can opener, you called it Harvey and Donna's sex toy. And I knew what you were talking about, but I had never thought of it that way until you said.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Did it never occurred to you that. That whatever was going on with your can opener had a sexual connotation?

[Sarah Rafferty]

When it came up in the table read, I was like, this isn't so. And they were like, no, no, no, no, no. And I. And then it went away.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Got it. Got it. I was a young man. What was I, 29? Everything was sexual.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's fair. And. And I applaud that. And you've gotta. You gotta live your truth. But now I understand why you said sex toy. Because Mike's pre trial ritual was the one that was sexy.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Clearly, that's the same Donna.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And Harvey's was the one that was still.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Look, I totally forgot that this was like a double joke, that Harvey and Donna were having their pre trial thing, and then Mike was gonna have his. I didn't even remember that at all.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I laughed out loud when you're like, oh, yeah, I could get behind that again.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Questions? What are they gonna do?

[Sarah Rafferty]

She's talking about a video, a gymnastics video.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So what are they gonna do on the phone?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't know. What do people do?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Before you could share videos on phones.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think people did stuff with just voices, don't you?

[Patrick J. Adams]

But she. Yeah, but I said on the phone. Like, when I say I go on the phone, I'm like, oh, okay, it's a phone sex thing. But then she's like, remember the gymnastics video? That's a visual thing. What could we do on the phone that relates to a gymnastics video?

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know what's interesting is the division of generations. Like, sex on the phone used to be just audio, and now I guess there's some video components to it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Different pod. A pod I want to be on desperately. But at this time. This time, there was no video component. Just to wrap this up, we both have pre trial rituals. Oh, and then. Okay, so then Mike meets up with Harvey. Mike sees the can opener. Original scripted line. Mike says, hey, what's that can opener for? But in this. Hey, I saw the can opener. Which weirder. So now we know that Mike knows about the can opener thing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I remember you guys changing that on set because I was in Harvey's office coming out and always trying to time it so I could just barely reach him. But I remember changing it to like, oh, I saw the can opener. And I was like, well, he couldn't have. Like, really? And not that I said that out loud, but I just thought, that's really interesting that Kevin wants to change it in that way. So Kevin put a hat on a hat. Kevin definitely made the can opener a thing. It wasn't in the script as that much of a thing. Have Mike gonna put an exclamation point.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Having me already know about it makes it even more.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, not already know about it. You saw it and you were like, what's that about?

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, no, that's the original line. The original line is what Is that about.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. What's can opener?

[Patrick J. Adams]

There is. I go, I saw it, by the way. Meaning, like, I've seen it before.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, no, I thought just meaning, like, I saw that can opener. Like, what's going on?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, that's not how I read.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Should we hear it?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, play it to me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We're in a fight.

[Patrick J. Adams]

To me, it's very much. And I'm pretty sure I played it this way with the intention of like, you just tried to hide it from me. But I saw it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, but not that you know what it is.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, see, you think you know what it is. That's what the original line is. And I didn't play that. It's a bit of a smirk. Feeling good? Never better. You ready to roll? Don't think I didn't see that can open to me. You tell me to me that line. You. The survey says Mike already knows about the can opener. He'd already, like, known it. And he's like, you just tried to hide it from me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think he's like, you just tried to hide a can opener from me. What's going on?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think that would have played better in. What the hell's a can. Why do you have a can opener?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you know what I mean? Like. Like, to me, the walking away confidently, like, I know you just tried to hide it from me. I think I. This is what I remember about playing the scene. What you're saying actually makes more sense to me. And it's the original line, and he didn't want me to play that. He wanted me to play like, you know it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, okay. I didn't read it that way. Okay.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you guys see what I'm talking about?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I did.

[Kiki]

And I also got a. Mike has an opinion about the can opener.

[Patrick J. Adams]

My vibe. Yeah, Mike, there's. It's a. It's a. It is a. It has already been a thing that's been discussed.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, or it's been observed maybe.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Exactly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Because they haven't.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Exactly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And you've seen it, and now you're bringing it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I've observed it. He denied it. And I went, okay, like, we've already had this conversation. It's already happened. I know about it. And now this time, it's like, you just tried to hide it from me. I know you just did the thing, but I already know about it. We've actually already had, off camera, the conversation about the can opener, which makes it weirder because now it's a thing I know about. And yet you're also hiding it. So there's something a bit shameful about it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

There's definitely shame, but it's not sexual. No, I think it's dork.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Again, fans, you need to calculate all of this. You need to buy sexy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't think it needs to be. I think it's probably wrong for it to be. But I think somebody needs to put all the pieces together who's smarter than me and come up with a theory.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And we'll send you a can opener.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'll send you more than that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Foreign.

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[Patrick J. Adams]

Harvey introduces Mike to Jason and Matt, witnesses for the prosecution. Jason's played by Chad Connell, and Matt is played by Morgan Kelly. Harvey suspects they murdered the victim, Jill, and believes that they will lie on the stand. And then once the trial begins, Harvey learns that his evidence may be inadmissible because of the chain of possession.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Now we're in to Act 3.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Things are getting spicy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you remember, was it around this time? Remember the serial podcast?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Of course, the.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The first one. This not dissimilar.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, but this was before that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, I know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, but not a dissimilar. I mean, obviously dissimilar in many of the details, but just wrongful, you know, accusations. Someone going to prison, murder of young girl, school.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. It's a very, very interesting topic that when I.

[Patrick J. Adams]

When I was looking at it, I thought. I thought, oh, maybe we took this from that and then noticed it was like three years earlier.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I actually asked Aaron if this had by any chance been ripped from the headlines, and he said he made the whole thing up. So it's kind of interesting when we look at some of the things that were happening in real life, which we can talk about it at another time. So then we've got Detective Packle, played by Ari Cohen, who confronts Harvey and tells him to back off his case.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, man, I struggle with these scenes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That one in the hallway.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

When they bump into each other.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Quibbles. Yeah, I'll quibble. Quabble. He's great. Ari's great. He is great.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Is he from New York? Is he doing, like a New York accent?

[Patrick J. Adams]

It feels like very New York. I mean, it feels that way. Yeah. And he's doing a great job. Yeah. Can we just talk about, like, just so I can get this right. Harvey did do all this. Like, he genuinely knew about the camisole with the blood on it, Right? Or is that. Is that Cameron did that and didn't tell him at all?

[Kiki]

That was what happened at the end of the last episode.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We knew he had never seen it, so he's seeing it for the first time now, and now he can do. Right, okay. Okay, Sorry. Good. Thank you. So Harvey and Mike trick Jason and Matt into meeting at a bar. Jason and Matt quickly leave, but Harvey and Mike get what they want. The duo's DNA.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And now I'm super confused about how d DNA evidence can actually be legally submitted. The dinna.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The dinna. Yeah. This is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a question to be reckoned with.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, you know, this is where. What would Aaron say? Oh, come on, give me a break.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You don't want to know. You want to want to know.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Give me a break. We're just having fun. This is a legal show. Come on. And we're in act four, and then we're in tact four. But for. Yeah, then we're in tact four. Okay. Guess what Donna needs.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think she needs a favor from Lewis.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And boy, are we gonna get one of the best scenes of the season.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. I remember this so well. Again, another scene that I didn't remember was in this exact episode. So at the top of the scene, Bray told me to take the tickets. I walked into that room, he was holding the tickets out. So he had clearly been in there for a few minutes figuring out where they were gonna be for the blocking. And he told me to put him in my shirt, but I'm wearing this, like, high necked thing. And it was a little bit awkward cause Kevin's a little bit shorter than me. So we were sort of delicately rooting around to figure out how I could do that first move. And then we decided to drop it because it was getting too intimate. Like, he was too. It wasn't appropriate for him to be trying to figure it out. Right. Oh, I see. It was just funny. It was kind of funny. And then.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But you didn't drop the idea that obviously they were going to come out of your shirt.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Cause we were trying to do it out of the neck. And then what I realized was that there Was like this perfect split in the fabric so I could tuck it in there to whip those out to be kind of a dirty move to arouse Lewis.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I remember thinking that that was risky for the scene. Cause that was the first beat. And I literally had no idea how far we were gonna push the limits on that kind of raunchy comedy going into this scene. I mean, at one point in this scene, I actually wipe my hand off on my skirt, mildly disgusted, after Lewis has basically, like, had relations or some sort of crisis with my hand. While we were in the middle of an episode where we are talking about burying DNA evidence. I mean, the pendulum swing from the comedy to the seriousness in this episode is so far. And this is a really good example of that because they let us spend so much time on this scene. I mean, they just, like, let the cameras run and we improv'd. And I think there's gag reel of me just with, like, tears coming down my face because Rick was holding onto my hand in such a way that I was completely.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The sex. The sexual part of it's really interesting because you come in, it's like dripping sex. This whole scene has it. But it's weird because you're not trying to. What's the word I'm looking for? You're not. You're not trying to woo him sexually. You're trying to woo. Because at that point, he doesn't want you sexually. Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I say, I will fill in for Norma.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. He wants you as his secretary, but you're playing. Right? That's. It's the fact that, you know that that's the sexiest thing that could ever happen. That in the Baryshnikov, he's like, I want you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I want you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I want you in that chair. Like, that's the sexy part. You being out in front of his office. And then these tickets to Baryshnikov, that's like the hottest thing he could imagine. But you have to play it sexy, which you do. Like, you come in, it's the sexiest thing in the world. It's so. I'm. So. It's the perfect. What you said, like, taking that much time to find that. But when you came. When you came in and heard about this stuff with the tickets, did that change? You're like, oh, I'm walking into this whole room with sex. Or like, with a. There's a sexual element to it, or did you know that already?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It was that Kevin permission, right? That permission that still. That he's not spending a lot of words on. He's just like, yeah, in there, and you're gonna go like this. And then he, like, split the ticket apart, like, legs.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But my point being is, like, you come on set that day, did you have any intention of the sexuality of the scene?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think I had the. Like, fill in for normal. Like, I had the words.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Cause there's such a coquettish, like, thing going on when you walk in.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But it's a short scene. Like, we don't have that whole thing. Like, that whole thing at the desk. I mean, I had the. Like, I'm gonna come in here, and I'm gonna be really sweet, and I'm gonna try, like, any way to ingratiate myself with him. And then I'm gonna have the tickets if that doesn't work, and I'm gonna push them towards him in some way. I mean, I don't think I even decided on the pushing them across the desk and teasing him with it. I'm not sure. Maybe I had. But then he. Then Rick grabs the bait, and it goes off the rails in a way that nobody could have imagined.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Can we. Do we have any of it? I just need to wash it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And because mom and dad were there. Right? Because Aaron and Kevin were there, we got to take the time.

[Lewis]

Hi, Donna.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Hi, Louis.

[Lewis]

You're never.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know. Why? I need a favor.

[Lewis]

You mean Harvey needs a favor.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, it's very astute of you.

[Lewis]

A big one.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Pause. Can we pause for a second? Can we just take in how he's reading a book?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, it is that he has. That is the weirdest way to read a book. And it is so perfect for Lewis. It's just like Rick.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a perfect example of when you're working with Rick, and you're like, hey, so, I don't know, maybe you're reading a book or whatever. And so you imagine, like, someone will just sit and read the book, and he'll do that. Yeah. And you'll be like, whoa, that's brilliant, Rick. What are you. First you'll be like, what are you? And then you'll be like, oh, right, that's. You're a genius. And I'm just gonna step away. Because no one on earth will read a book hunched over on the edge.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Of their desk with their fingers, like, going down.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But it sets him up perfectly. Cause he's already in this sort of, like, weird energy. If he was sitting confidently behind his desk, this scene would make less sense.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, she's definitely coming in there. Play acting, like, from the top. Like somebody she's not. Yeah. And then he's gonna turn the tides right here, I think.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But the sexy's right there. From the beginning. It's amazing. Let's continue to watch this.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know your cousin in the DNA lab? We need something today. No, it's for.

[Lewis]

I know what it's for.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What do you want?

[Lewis]

I don't want anything.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I will fill in for Norma.

[Lewis]

Okay? I'm not being vindictive.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm sorry. Do I have the right office?

[Lewis]

Listen to me. I want you, goddamn it. And I will throw that secretary right out the window if I knew you were gonna be my secretary. But I have a reputation that I value, and I'm not gonna be putting my reputation on the line for something that I do not believe in.

[Sarah Rafferty]

American Ballet Theatre.

[Lewis]

American, no.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Followed by a one on one dinner with Baryshnikov.

[Lewis]

Oh, Mommy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is not the script.

[Lewis]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Mm. Mm. Nope. I'm sorry.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay.

[Lewis]

Can't do it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Got it.

[Lewis]

Okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Mm.

[Lewis]

Do you understand why?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's very clear to me.

[Lewis]

No, no, because. Do you understand why I said lewis, I want to, but I can. What?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let go.

[Lewis]

What?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let go. Jessica would like to tell you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Perfection. I mean, I feel like we could teach a class on the scene, but I think you're putting it perfectly. Like, when everybody's there, you have mom and dad on set. You guys have been doing this all season. It's fun. That we found in this season. That scene was between you two. That first one where we went, whoa, this is the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

When you said it got into gear. When she said, his soul hurts now and he runs away.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The two of you together, it's just, like, so funny. And it's fun to revisit that one last time before we leave the season.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And that when I called Aaron about that scene, which I think they plugged into episode four or whatever. During the dolls episode.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He said if we hadn't come in under time and didn't need to write that scene in and put it in, we would have never had the scene in the finale. This one, which was about the tickets.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. That's that scene. Jessica tells Lewis he has to call his cousin. Lewis asked to be made senior partner, but Jessica doesn't respond to threats. She makes them. Lewis chooses to help. Yeah, this like, one, two punch. I mean, he steals, like the whole episode just in two up. Like two scenes, you two are brilliant together. And then he walks into this and he's real hot. Which is fun. Like, it's like, I deserve. And so he goes serious. It's like a serious scene. He's like, I deserve to be senior partner. I'm not going to be pushed around. And then she just comes right back at him.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't respond to threats.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't respect the threats. I make them. You're going to do this thing and you're going to do it now. And he goes, fine.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And he folds like a house of cards. And that's kind of it for Rick in this episode. Right? Like we don't see him again. Knock it out of the park.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Exactly. I just want to point out that obviously Jessica and Donna had a little deal. Like, before she went. They like worked it out that Donna was going to attempt the tickets and then she was going to say, if it doesn't work, you just need to be ready in your office because he'll come straight to you. I'll send him to you then immediately if he doesn't go for it. And obviously Jessica was like, yep, I'll be here. Like, the two of them conspired.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think that's funny to imagine their off camera relationship.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It almost seems like they almost knew that he wouldn't take it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So she just got to have her fun.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It seems like you're enjoying the fact that, like, you get to just do this for fun. Yeah. You get to make him this uncomfortable just for pure pleasure. And then send him to the person who's going to seal the deal. Because Jessica could have just walked in here and be like, do it. But you were like, give me this. I got an idea. I just want to do one thing first.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, I got to play a little.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yep.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So Mike gives Rachel an update on the case. And Rachel's comments convince Mike that he needs to talk to Trevor. Mike wants to tell the truth about Jenny.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Can't do these. I can't do these. I just don't like scenes where it's like, God, some somebody says something about what is it? Like, God, if only they'd been honest about their relationship. And then someone goes, yeah, hold on, I gotta make a phone call. It's just like, I can't do. I don't know what that. I just can't do it. Yeah, can't do it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's fair. That's fair. Harvey brings the DNA results to Wolf, but he won't budge. And Harvey and Mike need a new plan. Then Donna and Rachel catch up in the kitchen, and Donna guesses What's upsetting Rachel and then suggests they have a drink. I didn't realize. This is where the first I'm Donna. I know.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Line is, it's a major episode. Sorry. But it's like so many things are happening in this episode where I'm like, oh, this is from this episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And this and this. And the two of you together for the first time. Really.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right. We haven't, have we?

[Patrick J. Adams]

You've never had a scene like this together, I don't think.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No. This solidifies that. They have had a whole relationship off camera. We talked about that, actually, early on where I was like, I feel like Donna would be more upset about the Rachel thing, but that's only because we figured it out after this. This gives us the backstory that those two are buds. Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, is there anything in this scene that says you've done this before?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, hung out? Yeah. Oh, I feel like. I feel like just saying, oh, coming in and saying, you look like you need to go out for drinks. We should get a bunch of drinks.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I always read it again, you're the one in the scenes. You were playing it. It always felt to me like it was the first time you were asking her to do that. Like, that you guys had actually never done it before. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, Donna comes in, like, cracking some jokes about, like, Cheetos and being like, blah, blah, blah, blah, like, playing her little game. Like she had played a game with Lewis in the previous scene. So. But she's not getting any response out of her. So it seems like she then switches and goes, okay, wow, my humor isn't working on you. What's up? What are you bummed about? She doesn't reveal it, and she says, let me guess, Mike Ross? She's like, how do you know that? So I feel like they've definitely spent a lot of time together for Donna to have a shtick with her.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's so interesting. I read it totally different, but you guys, I'm sure, talked about that when you did the scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And you know what I'm excited about when I look at the scene?

[Patrick J. Adams]

What?

[Sarah Rafferty]

On Megan's coverage, she was shot first, and I remember purposely trying to make her laugh by just riffing at the end of the scene. And so she cracks up. It didn't have that in it, right? That laugh at the end of scene.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And then.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So they had your comedic.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I made her genius. I was really happy they kept it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. It is a very, like, Megan laugh. It's a very organic, charming.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. So then at the prison, Harvey goads Clifford into punching him to buy them some more time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Cool scene. Top five Harvey moments.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is the scene. This is the scene. This is the scene that Neil gets. The Rick deserved an Emmy Award. Award.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, interesting. The Neil deserves the Rick Emmy Award.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. I mean, are there gorgeous stills of this scene? Did you notice the color palette was all worked together in this scene? Did you notice that, like, it's all blues and grays?

[Patrick J. Adams]

They're very blue. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, it's so cinematic. It's so good. It's so memorable.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. I don't remember. I remember the feeling of this scene. I remember it was, you know, we don't have violence in our show. Is this the first time someone's getting punched? So I remember being like, whoa. Oh, someone's getting hit. And Gabriel, who's been, you know, the spirit, he's been a superhero. He's done action stuff. It was kind of fun to watch him get into.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Little action mode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Like a tiny version of it. But you could see it was so believable. You know, the muscles start moving of like, okay, this is how you're gonna punch me. And I. And I hadn't done that before, so I was like, okay, cool, here we go. It's a great scene. It's great. And it just. For the character, it's such a. It's a cool moment. It's.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's. You don't. You don't. I don't know what he's gonna do. I don't fully understand what's happening. I don't know why he's doing this.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So I love that. I love when Harvey can surprise us.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But then what I love is that then Mike surprises us. Cause Harvey tells Mike that he wants to beat the shit out of Jason or Matt to get a confession. And then Mike convinces Harvey to wait because he has the idea. So Harvey has the idea in that scene to get punched so they can buy four more days. Right. Which he learned from the very first scene.

[Patrick J. Adams]

48 hours.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Because then they have 48 hours. Because that's what he learned in the very first scene with Neil's character. But now Mike is gonna make the idea better.

[Patrick J. Adams]

One, two, punch.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, it's great you guys are figuring it out. Great Are Batman and Robin.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Anyway, it's kind of funny that Harvey goes from having a brilliant idea of, like, I'm gonna punch this guy in the scene to get 48 hours to I'm just gonna go beat the crap. Out of one of these witnesses.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right, right. He's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What you just did was smart. That's not smart. Let's not do that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So then we have to wait a sec to find out what exactly Mike's idea is. And we wait by going to hang out with Donna and Rachel as they have some drinks in Harvey's office. Rachel asks if Donna and Harvey ever. But Donna says no, and Rachel makes a call to Mike. This is the you can never go back scene. And again, this was a scene that was just entirely conjured by Kevin. Kevin was standing in there when we walked in. It was beautifully lit for night. He had music on. He was standing behind Harvey's desk with the chair out, and he was like, sarah, you are going to be here, feet up on the table. And I was like, what? And then he puts the record in my hand. I might have put my feet up on my own. I can't totally remember. But, like, he just had it ready. You know, he saw it, and we were just his. Definitely a vibe worked into it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a vibe with the scene. Heartaches and pain by Charles Bradley. That's like the third Charles Bradley song.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We had one last week, right?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, there's quite a few.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's. That suits sound well.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's the. It's the Harvey's. It's very specific. It's the Harvey's office as the sun's going down or has gone down vibe. It's, like, only exists in his office. There's a lot of crazy stuff in this scene. Beyond. The most important part is this moment. I love Rachel's wordless question. It's great. We don't get a lot of wordless in suits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We don't.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Aaron does not. Aaron likes to write the words. He's a writer. It's great that she just does it with a look and a long look between the two of you, but there's some. And your. We can't go back. That's the first time we've ever. In your reading of that line, that makes me go, oh, there was a moment. Something has happened. There have been moments. Not that I should be surprised. You guys are so close. But, like, now I can see it Now I can see the choice that was made by you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, the choice.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Like, there's a choice going on.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you think that there was something that happened and then a choice was made or a choice was made in front of the thing happening?

[Patrick J. Adams]

What I get is you're smart enough that there Are feelings in there, and you will never let them happen. That's what I saw. But we've, like, you have not the whole season. You've not let us have that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right. Which, again, we've talked about. Like, you could have. There could have been a longing look. There could have been a lingering something. You never gave it to us until this scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, also, but speaking of Rachel and Donna's relationship, they have a shorthand where Rachel just, in a look, says, did you? And Donna looks at her and just says, no. I know you're gonna say that. And no. Like, they're sort of at a place in their relationship where they haven't talked about that, but they talk about things. Right. They're very close. Obviously, that they can. That Donna knows what Rachel's getting to.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That was not obviously vulnerable. She. The closeness.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Not leading up to now. But I think that because we had these two scenes, I'm like, oh, they hang out. I mean, they hang out. They do this. They have Harvey Scotch.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Like I said, my read at the scene was that it was the first time you were doing it right here. Yeah. That you had never done this before. I thought this was the first time your characters were hanging out like this. That this was like we were witnessing the first time you welcomed her into the office. Because she's asking all these questions that indicate she had never hung out in the office before.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Okay. I mean, that can work too. And that can be why when she says, because you can never go back, she decides, I want to leave the room. Like, I just shared something that makes me want to leave the room before this goes any further.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Totally. Yeah. And I assume if you'd hung out a bunch of times, she would have asked you that question before.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right? That's a good point.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I assume that would have come up pretty early.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. And it's obviously something that Donna hasn't fully. You know, that sometimes has her doubts about that choice that she made. I think she made the right choice for sure.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You improv'd. I got a p. I did.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I did.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Just cause you needed. You wanted to give yourself a reason to get out of there.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I wanted to give. I wanted. I remember choosing to say that because I wanted Donna to need to leave and she needed to leave emotionally. She didn't have to pee. She just didn't want to be in there anymore after she shared the thing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Got it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And it had to be instead of like, donna needs to leave so that Rachel can be left alone to make a call. It has to be for an emotional reason for herself to leave.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Got it. I got all of that, and it was great. And I loved hearing I got a pee in the middle of Serious Moments. All right. Ignoring Rachel's phone call, Mike talks to Trevor. He needs Trevor's help, which is. Do you remember this? It was this scene from the Town. Anyone remember that? Going deep on the town.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't know how you have this kind of memory of phones.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Nobody knows the scene where. You know the scene where Ben Affleck walks in a Jeremy Renner and goes, I need you to hurt some people, and I can't tell you why. And he goes, which car are we taking? You don't remember this scene? It's like, one of the great scenes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

All right, I love that. I love that you remember that. I love that this is a homage to that. I also love that Mike is a Harvey whisperer. I do think that you have spent this whole episode straddling the light and the serious tones really, really, really well.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thank you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're knitting it all together for all of us.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thank you. It's fun to see Trevor be useful, like, oh, there's something for him to do here instead of just terrorize us and make us scared.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Exactly. And then we're into Act 5, where Trevor threatens Matt on, quote, unquote, Jason's behalf. So we're in that bedroom, and we get Tom playing to the strengths of having his heavy brow that he told us about being the scary guy who wakes you up in the middle of the night with your baseball bat.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's terrifying. Do not want to wake up to Tom above me with a baseball bat. He's so scary. So, yeah, he threatens him and then leaves. And then Matt finds Harvey, Mike, and Detective Packle in his living room. The plan works. Matt confesses. Let me just to walk you through this. Matt Bailey's last 20 minutes, okay? He's in bed, water on his face. He wakes up a man with a bat, threatens him, tells him that his best friend's gonna turn on him or kill him if he does anything. Smashes his lamp, walks out. So he goes, man, that's a lot. So I'm gonna get up, and I'm gonna go to the kitchen, pour myself a drink. Then there is a police officer and two attorneys who have now broken and entered into his home that are sitting.

[Sarah Rafferty]

In the dark under the guise of. We knew somebody was going to come for you because. So we were guarding you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We were just across the street and.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We saw keeping you safe.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So we instead of waiting outside or coming and knocking on your door. We literally just came into your house and sat here and waited for you to wake up. Yeah, that's a terrifying 20 minutes. I mean, I know this guy doesn't deserve our empathy. He was involved with the killing of a young girl, but this is a. This is a strange night for him. How did you feel about this whole sequence?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I just enjoyed the unraveling of this part of the plot, honestly. And it was brilliant on Mike's part. Like, we didn't see him going and soliciting Trevor to do it. Harvey gets to get right up to the line on this, and then obviously you've got Packle somehow has been won over by this whole move. So this is part of the plot of Mississippi Burning.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Have you seen Mississippi Burning?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Probably back when it came out, I don't know, maybe I fell asleep. I can't remember. Burning.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love that I just called myself a cinephile. I don't think I've seen Mississippi Burning, so I don't think I'm immediately disqualified.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do. Is this supposed to be from.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think all of these machinations are from Mississippi.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think we should go watch Mississippi Burning, guys. We'll be right back.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Special and just hold. Wow. Oh, my God. Okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, yeah. That was cool. That was cool. That was really cool how they did the thing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I can see why we used all of that. Okay, good, good, good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So then Trevor listens to the voicemail from Rachel and he discovers that Mike is with Jenny.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you hear that little blue jays shout out at the beginning of this scene? The radio. The radio says something about the blue jays.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, no. That places us squarely in Toronto.

[Patrick J. Adams]

How about Tom's face when he turns in the scene? When it turns, he goes from being very friendly Tom to I'm about to murder Tom. And it's scary.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's scary. It is.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I love how it cuts from Trevor to Mike and Harvey waiting for Clifford outside of the prison. It's such a different vibe. They're so happy our guy's gonna get out of prison. They're there to meet him. They're having fun banter. And then we go into Slow Mo and he comes out and it's overlaid, right? Because Trevor is going to Pearson Hardman to talk to Jessica.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And it's a beautiful ending.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's an incredible cliffhanger. Like, what is going to happen?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Seeing the wolf in the hen house, so to speak. Like, him just standing there waiting, and you're like, no, no, no, no, no.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Totally did you think about when you read that or when we were working on this episode? Like, how they're gonna get. Like how we're gonna come back for episode one, season two? Were you like, where are they gonna go? Cause I could not think of where to go.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I was like, what?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Where are we gonna jump time? And I know I sort of asked Aaron about it at the time, and he was like, I'm not jumping time. I'm not gonna jump time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He committed to that. Yeah. I remember being like, that is one thing we are not doing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And it wasn't gonna be a dream. It wasn't gonna be like it was going to. He was gonna follow through on it. But I remember him looking at me saying, I have no idea what we're doing. And I just thought that was incredible. Cause that. That unknowing, the fear of that unknown would have totally frozen me creatively.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Would you have been able to think of a way through?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think. I don't know. Maybe. I watch enough TV that I'm like, you can get out of anything. So for me, I just was like, yeah, hell yeah, of course. Let's mix it up. Someone else has gotta find out. And Jessica's the best person. We've been dodging her all. So. So I was just excited. I was selfishly excited too, because it made Mike. Mike was about to have a spotlight on him. And I was like, oh, these will be some fun scenes to play. So I had no doubt we could figure it out. I don't know what it was gonna be. And you try to remain unattached from any idea of what you want it to be because it'll inevitably be something different. But I was excited. I mean, and also just as a person who had been reading the scripts, I was excited. I was like, this is a great ending. This is a solid ending to this season.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. And there we are at the end of the episode.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We have arrived not only at the end of an episode, but at the end of the season.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So let's review our honorable mentions. Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What do you got?

[Sarah Rafferty]

We've got some incredible casting here. We have some really good one liners. The writing's amazing. Kevin's direction, which I'm gonna call his conjuring. Cause he is just like lifting up that direction out of the ether. I think there is fairy dust sprinkled all over this episode. I'm loving the mic closeups. I love the memory of working with Rick on that particular scene. I think that's one of my favorite memories of working With Rick was that scene. And I loved the suits and how the suits played Rick with each other. I say Julie's the unsung hero here. It's like she's creating the perfect kind of wallpaper for our show.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think those are all right. I think just in general, Kevin. Just Kevin and Aaron together is the dream team, and it made for such a great episode. I think having all of us just find we have spent 12 episodes figuring out our pocket, what we love to do, what our characters. Where the characters really work. And in this episode, we all get a chance to demonstrate it. I think the music is phenomenal. I think Kevin's doing some stuff with editing in this episode that's phenomenal. I think you and Rick are at the top of your powers. Yeah. I mean, in terms of objections, I don't have much. I know you have one. What do you got?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, no, I was. No, no, we don't even need to include that. I was just gonna say that silly.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Women are not just wearing men's shirts in the morning.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think the only. The funny objection that I have is that is about something. You just said that, like, there's a peak happening here. I know. For me, watching this episode, I was like, oh, is this the peak of Donna?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know. But seriously, there were such gems here that I actually am like, oh, gosh.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm scared to watch the rest. This is just the first season. Oh, no, wait. Oh, I see. Like, did I just blow through all my great moments that I thought were gonna be spread out more?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Donna's moment. You know what I mean? Or those feelings.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I know that's not true.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We talked about possibly coming up of, like, oh, I didn't have that anymore. Because the way our show changed instead of just, you know, we are humans who are uncomfortable with change. Right. Aren't all humans uncomfortable with change? Even though the Buddha told us it's. The one thing that's for certain is that there's gonna change, and it's going to be great, and it's going to be great to go on this journey with you. But I'm having this funny feeling of playing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. I mean, this is. You know, I have this insane experience at the end of this season of getting nominated for a SAG Award, which happens after this season, which was just such a. Maybe we'll talk more at length about it. But it's such a surreal, unexpected, insane thing to have happen. And then that leads right into, like, going back to work off the heels of that and off the heels of this insane season. And I know things get tougher for me personally from this point on. So it is a little scary too, to be like. I feel like we've gotten the thrill and the excitement of the first season, and now we're heading into the second season.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What category of personally tougher are we talking about? Are we talking about conflict? Are we talking about.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, we're getting all. Yeah, sorry, give me some other options.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, I. I feel like I should definitely not put that. Put words in your mouth.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, no, no. But you're not. I think you're right. I think, you know, there's conflict, there's self doubt, there's loneliness, there's, you know, being further away. There's the show not going in the direction that you thought it should go in and realizing, like, well, you don't get a say in that, but how frustrating that is. I mean, there's a lot of stuff coming up. We're heading into that. The first season, I. My. My memory of it, while scary and difficult at times, was joyful. It was really joyful. It was, like, fun. It was exhausting. I remember being so tired for so much of it, but I had fun. It gets more complicated from here on out. Second, third, fourth season, it starts getting more complicated, as I think it does for anybody who's on a show for a long time. So it's gonna be interesting to have to navigate those feelings as they come up. Yeah, that's it. I don't have any other objections.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So how many goddamns do you think there were in this episode? I'm gonna say zero.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm gonna say, well, if it's Price is Right rules, then I'll just say one.

[Kiki]

There are two.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I will.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're so mean. You're the meanest.

[Patrick J. Adams]

How many total for the season?

[Kiki]

I have no idea.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you think Google will have it?

[Kiki]

I'm Pretty sure it's 21.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Season one. 21.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wait, it's on the Internet?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Of course it's on the Internet. There's a whole chart right here, really, of everyone.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We're not revolutionary.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, there's 21.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Is there a chart for all the other seasons? Don't tell me.

[Kiki]

No cheating. No cheating.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so that's case closed on Dogfight. End season one of Suits.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Guys, thank you so much for listening, not only to this episode, but this entire first season. We couldn't be doing this without you. Thank you for your support. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you for showing up. I love you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I love you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thank you. And then next week we're actually gonna have a very special episode. We're lucky to be welcoming Aaron Korsh and Kevin Bray, the creator and creator of the show and the director of many episodes, including this last one that we just did. They're going to come and talk to us about the whole first season and what the experience was like before we crack into season two.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Get ready for some chaos.

[Patrick J. Adams]

All right, thank you guys. Have a great week. Take care of yourselves and each other. Bye Bye.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We love our listeners and we would love to hear from you. If you have any questions for us, email us@ Sidebar podcasteriusxm.com if you send us a question as a voice memo, we may even get to play it on the show.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And if you can, please make sure to leave a review wherever you listen. It's a great way to support the show. Thank you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams and Sirius XM Media.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Our senior producer is Kimmy Gregory and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez and our music is by Brendan Burns.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin in Foreign.

[Narrator]

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