The Shelf Life

Summary

Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast — Episode: "The Shelf Life"

Release Date: January 14, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast, hosts Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty delve deep into Season 1, Episode 10 of the acclaimed TV series Suits, titled "The Shelf Life." Drawing from their firsthand experiences as actors on the show, Patrick (who portrayed Mike Ross) and Sarah (who played Donna Paulsen) offer a rich analysis of the episode, providing listeners with behind-the-scenes insights, character explorations, and thoughtful critiques.

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Episode Overview

"Shelf Life" centers around a critical situation at Pearson Hardman, where Harvey Specter must address the deceit of a senior VP, Stan Jacobson, who falsified his credentials. This decision not only threatens the integrity of the firm but also brings Mike Ross’s own fabricated history to light, exacerbating the tension and stakes within the narrative.

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Director Spotlight: Jennifer Getzinger

Patrick and Sarah commend Jennifer Getzinger's directorial prowess in this episode. Sarah highlights Getzinger's background as a script supervisor on Mad Men and praises her for her subtle yet impactful direction. “Jennifer was telling a lot of Mike's story,” Sarah notes ([15:30]), emphasizing how Getzinger adeptly captures the internal struggles of characters without overt exposition. Patrick echoes this sentiment, appreciating the nuanced performances elicited under her guidance.

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Character Development and Performances

Harvey Specter: Both hosts laud Gabriel Macht’s portrayal of Harvey, especially his nuanced performance in "Shelf Life." Patrick remarks, “Patrick, you are on fire in this episode” ([13:30]), highlighting the character’s intensified emotional complexity as he grapples with the ethical dilemma of firing Stan. Sarah adds that Harvey's subtle expressions convey his internal conflict, “he can seem heartless” while still showing layers of empathy ([37:30]).

Mike Ross: The episode brings Mike’s fabricated background to the forefront, intensifying his precarious position. Sarah and Patrick discuss the challenges Mike faces, particularly in scenes where his abilities as a brilliant mind are both a boon and a vulnerability. They debate Mike’s emotional state during confrontations, with Sarah expressing skepticism about his aggressive stance towards Harvey. “I’m almost now able to put myself in the position of the people who would comment on Mike and be like, you chose this” ([67:16]).

Jessica Pearson: Andrea Parker’s Jessica is spotlighted for her formidable presence. Sarah praises Jessica’s strategic mindset and her ability to lead with strength, especially in legal confrontations. “Jessica crushing it in this scene,” Sarah observes ([60:02]), noting her attire and demeanor as emblematic of her authoritative role.

Lewis: The introduction of Lewis Litt’s romantic pursuits adds depth to his character. Patrick and Sarah humorously discuss his interactions, emphasizing Lewis’s multi-dimensional personality beyond his professional facade. “We haven’t seen as far as we’ve known he’s asexual until this episode,” Sarah mentions ([45:21]), pondering the implications for his character development.

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Scene-by-Scene Analysis

1. Black Tie Event Interaction ([16:44] - [18:44])

   • Patrick and Sarah dissect the opener at a black-tie event, appreciating the unscripted moments that add authenticity. They highlight the chemistry and subtle humor, particularly focusing on Lewis’s lighthearted interactions.

2. Harvey’s Confrontation with Stan ([34:47] - [38:51])

   • The duo praises the tension in scenes where Harvey must terminate Stan’s employment. They discuss John Billingsley’s portrayal of Stan, noting the emotional weight he brings to the role. Sarah remarks, “Stan plays it beautifully,” acknowledging the actor’s ability to convey deep frustration and regret.

3. Mike and Rachel's Dynamic ([54:47] - [58:32])

   • A significant portion of the discussion centers on the evolving relationship between Mike Ross and Rachel Zane. Sarah critiques the authenticity of their interactions, questioning Mike’s emotional responses and the storytelling choices that lead to their moments of tension and intimacy. Patrick and Sarah debate fan reactions, speculating that the audience is invested in Mike and Rachel’s burgeoning relationship despite complications introduced by other characters like Jenny.

4. Climactic Confrontations ([60:49] - [67:43])

   • The hosts analyze pivotal confrontations, particularly Mike’s heated exchange with Harvey. They explore the thematic elements of trust, fear, and responsibility, dissecting how these interactions set the stage for future developments in the series. Patrick notes, “This moment has been mythologized in the suits world,” highlighting its cultural impact.

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Production Insights

Sarah provides anecdotes about on-set experiences, including challenges with set entrances and costume choices. She expresses nostalgia and appreciation for moments of spontaneous interaction, such as guiding scenes where the director captures unplanned expressions or behaviors. Patrick adds humor when discussing costume malfunctions or wardrobe choices, underscoring the collaborative nature of their work.

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Costume and Cinematography

The hosts discuss the visual storytelling elements, particularly focusing on Rachel’s evolving wardrobe from casual to sophisticated. They analyze how costume design reflects character development and enhances narrative depth. Sarah observes, “Rachel has a different vibe in this episode,” pointing out the strategic use of lighting, makeup, and attire to signify her growth and increasing importance within the firm.

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Critiques and Quibbles

While praising many aspects of the episode, Patrick and Sarah also offer constructive critiques. Sarah expresses frustration with Mike’s occasional overreliance on his intellectual prowess, feeling it undermines the show’s realism. Patrick acknowledges these critiques but emphasizes the necessity of Mike’s unique abilities within the series’ framework.

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Notable Quotes

• Patrick Adams ([13:30]): “Patrick, you are on fire in this episode.”
• Sarah Rafferty ([37:30]): “He can seem heartless.”
• Sarah Rafferty ([45:21]): “We haven’t seen as far as we’ve known he’s asexual until this episode.”
• Sarah Rafferty ([67:16]): “You chose this.”
• Sarah Rafferty ([60:02]): “Jessica crushing it in this scene.”

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Conclusion

In "The Shelf Life," Patrick and Sarah offer a comprehensive and heartfelt examination of a pivotal episode in Suits Season 1. Their blend of professional analysis and personal anecdotes provides listeners with a deeper understanding of the characters, plot intricacies, and production nuances. This episode not only underscores the show's strengths in storytelling and character development but also highlights areas for potential improvement, fostering a balanced and insightful discussion for both fans and newcomers alike.

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Final Thoughts

Patrick and Sarah wrap up the episode by reflecting on their experiences and expressing anticipation for future episodes. They emphasize the importance of listener engagement and encourage fans to share their thoughts and questions, fostering a community of Suits enthusiasts eager to explore the series in greater depth.

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Key Takeaways

• Jennifer Getzinger's direction enhances character depth and narrative tension.
• Gabriel Macht delivers a nuanced portrayal of Harvey Specter, balancing strength with subtle vulnerability.
• John Billingsley’s performance adds emotional weight to Stan Jacobson’s character arc.
• The evolving relationship dynamics, particularly between Mike and Rachel, add complexity to the storyline.
• Costuming and cinematography play crucial roles in reflecting character development and thematic elements.

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Engage With Us

Listeners are encouraged to reach out with their questions and comments about the episode, fostering an interactive and engaging community around Suits.

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Note: This summary omits advertisement segments and non-content portions of the transcript, focusing solely on the substantive discussions relevant to the podcast's analysis of the Suits episode.

Transcript

[Patrick Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick Adams]

Every Christmas night, there's a white elephant in our family, and it is a thing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

And we actually have a competition of who can wrap their thing. The shittiest. And one year, my grandmother wrapped it in, like, paper towel and put the string from the roast beef around it in a bow. Like, she was so. It was so gross.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The string from the roast beef is a nice touch.

[Patrick Adams]

It was so funny. She was so good. But last night, there was a $30 limit on the white elephant, and I didn't have time to go figure out a $30 gift, so I gave something that was not a $30 value, which.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Was creper race, creperace.

[Patrick Adams]

So I gave like five. So I put like, a whole regimen, and that got fought over. Got fought over. People are excited, like, yeah, there was stealing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is the year I start a regimen. I don't have a regimen.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm your beauty.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Anything. I don't do anything. Can I get. Can I tell you something?

[Patrick Adams]

What?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't even, really, like, wash your face on my face other than in the shower. Tummy is so, like, I just, like, do a quick scrub of it all. But I don't at night have, like, a specific foaming cleanser that I follow up with.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, you're so lucky. You don't. You don't have, like, any problems with the makeup that you have to wear or anything.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I do a hot towel at the end of a day with some cleanser. Oh, that's not true.

[Patrick Adams]

Never had acne.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's not true. There's cleanser on, on set. So if I'm working, I'll take a squeeze of something, put it on there. Hot towel and no acne. Brush my teeth, go to bed.

[Patrick Adams]

What do you wear moisturizer?

[Sarah Rafferty]

No.

[Patrick Adams]

What? Never?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Never.

[Patrick Adams]

Then you shouldn't start because there's something about the barrier of your skin that is in perfect balance that means you should not start to put stuff on it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know what? Troy and got them.

[Patrick Adams]

What?

[Sarah Rafferty]

One of those. She bought like, one of these, like, red light Chinese. No, we've had that for a while. She got one of these little sucker things.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh. For your.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The camera in it.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So you can see while it's sucking the pores, like close up. So you're pulling it along your nose tight. You see each one just like kind of rip it coming out.

[Patrick Adams]

It is so satisfying.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So satisfying. But it's very Hugh Hamilton. Very powerful. And you can't. Yeah, that if you keep it in the same place for, like, more than two seconds, you get really red. Rudolph. Rudolph knows.

[Patrick Adams]

Wait, but it's. Do you need to have two. Like, can you share it? I mean.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, that's probably too much information for our guests, but if not that this is gonna make it. I don't know.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't know. We're just here talking.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. Yeah. She's like, it's going live. We're live. Actually, we're live right now.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't even know if this thing is on.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We're in every car that has Sirius XM right now. Also, just to give everybody an update on the bump on my face. Oh, 20, 25. Check the bumps on your face. I had this thing under my lip and it's been there for weeks and it wasn't growing.

[Patrick Adams]

Get your bumps.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It wasn't growing. It was just like a little thing. And I was like, ignore. I mean, I was on camera and no one noticed it. That's how small it was. But I could feel it was there. And then yesterday I felt it awaken, seize. And that freaked me out. And so I was talking to you about wanting to go to the doctor, go to a doctor or whatever. Well, turns out, got home, popped it. I worked it a bit.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, oh. Hit the mirror. Did it hit the mirror?

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, no, no. Not that bad. But it was something. It's just weird. It took weeks to become it.

[Patrick Adams]

Is this the content that our listeners have been asking for? It's interesting. I think we have to keep this in because we need to know what.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Happened to the bump. Check your bumps. Yeah, check your bumps. Everybody check your bumps.

[Patrick Adams]

Bumps.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Check your friends. Bumps. Check your bumps.

[Patrick Adams]

Check the bumps. Can I. Can you just tell me if this bump looks infected?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I would love to see. Please show Me more. Yeah. Well, and now I made an appointment. You make me worry about you Laser about something. Oh, on Monday, which I. You told me to. To do, and now I have an appointment, but I don't have anything to laser, so I got to find something else in my body to go laser.

[Patrick Adams]

What, are you going to a doctor?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, yeah, as a dermatologist. Then you keep that Beverly Hills dermatologist.

[Patrick Adams]

Then you keep that appointment, and you get a full body check.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, yeah, I'll do that.

[Patrick Adams]

That's what you're doing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I want something fun, too.

[Patrick Adams]

Like, you want to get a laser.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You want to be a laser. Inject something. I don't know. I don't know anything about this.

[Patrick Adams]

You should get, like, a lot of injections in your lips. Okay, that'll look good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is good. Go into 2025 with real plump, like, luscious lips.

[Patrick Adams]

Plump, plump.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, this is the kind of content you came for, and it's the kind of content you'll get. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Sidebar, a Suits Watch podcast. My name is Patrick Adams.

[Patrick Adams]

And my name is Sarah Rafferty. And we both were on Suits, but we never really watched it until now.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Until now. And this week, we watched Season 1, Episode 10, Shelf Life. But before we dive in, I think we dove in. We definitely dove in.

[Patrick Adams]

The diving has occurred.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're gonna. We're gonna recut that and put the bumpers in there.

[Patrick Adams]

I think that we're going into sidebar.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Uncensored after sidebar after dark.

[Patrick Adams]

Skinimax.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Did you ever do. No.

[Patrick Adams]

You were do skinmax.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, what? You were a little older than me.

[Patrick Adams]

So where's this going? Do you feel. Are you scared?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Just the nighttime. Like your. Like your parents are upstairs in bed and you've got, like, the hbo.

[Patrick Adams]

That is how you learn about everything.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So you were still. But, like, you weren't still living with your parent.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't just go direct.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm thinking, like, dream On. Dream On. Remember hbo? Dream On?

[Patrick Adams]

No.

[Sarah Rafferty]

There we go. So you were not that. For a young man at that time, that was like, a very sexy show on hbo and that was what we would do. Does anyone else remember Dream On? No one remembers Dream On. Wow, this got weird really quick.

[Patrick Adams]

Can we talk about the Canadian television, how it turns pretty hot and heavy at night?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I feel like I do know that somewhere in my brain, but I don't really know it. But it rings a bell for me that that's true.

[Patrick Adams]

Have you ever had an orgasm on television?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thought you were just gonna end It. Especially with this episode where there's so much made of Mike's virginity. Have you ever had an orgasm?

[Patrick Adams]

I did.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I have had. I have had to do that a number of times.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I don't. Well, you did it famously in a shower. What are we talking about? You're like one of the more famous public orgasms.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't know if it's famous. I just.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're right up there with When Harry Met Sally in terms of cultural orgasms. You don't think. You don't see that that's biggest compliment ever been, especially for, like, a generation of people for whom that might have been the first, the Herbal Essence. You don't know that it's like a foundational moment in that shower because it's like, what is happening? Why is she. She's really enjoying that shampoo. Like, that was the moment that was a sexual awakening for a lot of people.

[Patrick Adams]

Like. Like anybody, you know?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't know. Maybe not. I don't know if anybody. I know.

[Patrick Adams]

Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Like, because I would have seen that pre. And it's on my TV over and over again. So I would have seen that commercial pre. Like When Harry Met Sally.

[Patrick Adams]

Really?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think so.

[Patrick Adams]

Even though it was a satire of the. Satire of that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. But like yours, a commercial's on all the time.

[Patrick Adams]

And When Harry Met Scream was on a lot.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. When Harry Met Sally. You watch it once a year. Or if that.

[Patrick Adams]

It was the last commercial that was aired right before the last Seinfeld. It was like that commercial, and then it went blank and it went right into the last Seinfeld.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's cool. That's fitting.

[Patrick Adams]

That's the biggest moment of my life.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's fitting. Well, except this moment right now with me. Right.

[Patrick Adams]

I want to say touch tips, but not after that conversation. I feel like that wouldn't be appropriate. That would be gilding the lily. That would be pushing the envelope. What is it?

[Sarah Rafferty]

We don't want any Yahtzees. Yahtzees here.

[Patrick Adams]

It's Klatzy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Klazis. Klatzis.

[Patrick Adams]

No.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, boy.

[Patrick Adams]

Okay, so I think that was. I just want to say this. I think that was good. We've checked in. It's time to go into the episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Shall I begin? Today we're breaking down Season one, Episode ten, Shelf Life. This episode was written by Sean Jablonski, who, listeners of the POD will know was our sort of co showrunner for the first season. And it was directed by Jennifer Getzinger and originally aired on Thursday, August 25.

[Patrick Adams]

2011 and in this episode, Harvey must fire an employee of Pearson Hardman's accounting firm for lying on his resume. Even though Mike finds a more sinister motive for the termination, it brings his own precarious lie to the forefront.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We've got some facts from our firm's best researcher, Kiki. The shoot dates July 14th to the 22nd, 2011. Episode one, Dirty Little Secrets aired on July 14th while shooting. Jennifer Getzinger, our director, she was a script supervisor on Mad Men before her directing debut on that show, and she went on to direct 10 episodes and earned three DGA awards. Wow. And she did two episodes of Suits, I Believe, and we'll get into her, but I wish she did about 50 more. I think she's amazing, and she's gone on to have a Just an incredible career. And the tracks are back this week. We have eight songs on our soundtrack this week. And also just lots of composition. That was phenomenal, so it'll be fun to talk about that.

[Patrick Adams]

Definitely notice that I loved that we had these songs in this composition because this episode was on fire. This was an incredible episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Give me your opening statement. What do you got?

[Patrick Adams]

Patrick, you are on fire in this episode. The pacing and the specificity and everything. I just. I'm really eager to hear what you remember from this, because this is a really great Mike episode. This one feels a lot like the pilot to me in terms of the pace and the humor and all that it is asking from you in particular as an actor. And my question is, is this the first time that we really start to kind of worry that Jessica is having a weird Spidey sense about Mike? Is that when we really lay this in? Because I feel like we're starting. We're starting with this episode to really gear up to some kind of cliffhangery finale.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right.

[Patrick Adams]

Like, this is the beginning of the ramp.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You can feel the stakes in this episode a lot more, I feel like. And that's part of it, I think, is Jessica's kind of on the hunt. We realize I'm reminded in this episode of this secret, which has kind of been in the show, but we kind of disappeared. It's gone a little bit case to case. Yes. I feel like the last few episodes totally. And now in this episode, I'm reminded, like, oh, things are tenuous. Like, this could be really bad. And, like, it's not like everyone's on the same team. And I think it's a really helpful time for it in the show, and it makes for an excellent Episode. Thank you for your kind words. I am proud of this episode. It's hard for me to say, but I was watching it and I didn't really have too many cringy moments. And as I was watching it, I was exploring that. I was trying to figure out what now why. Why are other episodes harder for me to watch and what is going on in this. I think it has a lot to do with Jennifer and some things that she was doing, which I really appreciated as an actor being filmed by her. I was like, oh, like that.

[Patrick Adams]

Do you remember them well?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Really? What I thought she was doing so beautifully. And other directors do it too, but she was lingering on moments that weren't talking. You see, you're living with a lot of Mike in this episode and other people too. But because we're dealing with Mike's sort of internal struggle as it relates to the case here, you see his machinery working behind the eyes. And I feel like, for whatever reason now watching this, Jennifer was telling a lot of Mike's story. Just on my face, registering things. I don't remember the shooting of it. I don't remember if we were really having conversations about that. If she was directing in those directions. I wish I did. But you can tell either way, it was a value to her. It was something she was focusing on. And so as an actor, I'm actually enjoying that. That it's not just about what I'm saying, which on this show is a big deal because Aaron's a great writer and.

[Patrick Adams]

And we don't have a lot of time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We don't have a lot of time. And you gotta see the word. You gotta get the words said and you gotta see them. So I think she just did a masterful job of living with characters in the moments when they're not speaking. But anyway, opening statement is I think everybody did a wonderful job on this episode and we're excited to talk about it. So should we dive in? Teaser.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, teaser. We glide in on Jessica, Harvey and Lewis at a black tie event. Lewis introduces himself to the future Mrs. Litt, and Harvey meets this week's client, Tori.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The script starts with the waiter offering champagne. None of this black tie conversation is scripted.

[Patrick Adams]

What?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Kiki found out all of that.

[Patrick Adams]

When did it start?

[Sarah Rafferty]

When did it say black tie, gray tie?

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, that whole thing, the chit chat is so great. The first line is, the waiter coming up and offering them champagne. Oh, amazing. I love that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Off script, we like it.

[Patrick Adams]

And it's always nice to see our friends in black tie.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Life can Be so Cruel by Leopard Lounge Groove I just want to shout out our music in this episode because there's some good stuff. And. Yes, you're right. So good. These people being sexy on a rooftop.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. So there's a point in the scene where I. I don't know that this is true, so I do not want to cast a version, but I swear, I feel like Gabriel is actually kind of a little bit laughing when Lewis says it's pheromones and women find it irresistible. And then he does the most ridiculous check. His breath move, like. Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course it was a lot because. Oh, gosh.

[Patrick Adams]

It was.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, it was.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, whoa, whoa. No, no cutting.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I just hate that I don't know the word. That's what my experience is.

[Patrick Adams]

No, go ahead. You were saying. You were saying about you can't laugh.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, when did we.

[Patrick Adams]

How did you just work it in?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. You can't not laugh at him. And Gabriel got the giggles a lot.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, when you got into Gabriel, especially Rick had a certain effect on him.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Once it started, it did not stop.

[Patrick Adams]

I mean, there were times when he would giggle in later seasons when he just had to be like, okay, wait, you know what? Actually, can you, like, turn around? Like, I can't even now. I can't look at your face. Can you turn around and say your lines? And I'll say them to the back of your head?

[Sarah Rafferty]

And then something like this. It would pro. On the reverse on Gabriel, he'd probably be like, don't. Just don't.

[Patrick Adams]

Don't look at.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Don't do your hand thing, because I will not be able to not laugh.

[Patrick Adams]

Right, right, right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Or do it way less.

[Patrick Adams]

Right. So we should explain that we did. We talked about this a little bit in one of the mailbag. One of the end chambers. But when the camera turns around. So when the camera is off of Rick and just on Gabriel, there is a likelihood that Gabriel was like.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He'd be like, dial it down.

[Patrick Adams]

Right. But you could see his hands.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, he's. He's doing it, but you know what I mean? And I don't know if he actually did it in that scene, but it would not be crazy in a situation with Gabriel if somebody was doing something really funny.

[Patrick Adams]

Really funny, that he'd be like, I'm not gonna be able to make it through.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do it all the way. Give me 50%, not 100%.

[Patrick Adams]

Yes. Yes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And not just Gabriel. I think we've all probably been there.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

For sure.

[Patrick Adams]

He's just a particularly good giggle monster.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. I love the contrast of this scene to the next one. Mike and Jenny getting hot and heavy in Mike's apartment.

[Patrick Adams]

Chemistry. Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't know what to tell you. I mean, I really am a hugenessa Rae fan.

[Patrick Adams]

And she's a delight.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She's a delight, and she was so easy to work with. And it's just, you know, chemistry is often thought of this mystical thing that either happens or doesn't happen between people. In my experience, it's like if you're two cool people that, like, just are ready to make the most of a scene and, like, be open and have fun, you're gonna have chemistry. Right? And that. That's my experience with her. She's just so cool. I love seeing these characters together. And I'm. And right off now I'm rooting.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm like, I'm great and I'm tooting cute.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're tooting.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, I'm rooting tootin'no. I do root. I am rooting. I don't pick teams, but I like this team. So Harvey calls Mike in. And this week's case, guys, it's close to home. This is the case of the week. Pearson Hardman's accounting firm has a problem. One of its senior VPs, Stan Jacobson, lied on his resume. He didn't go to college or get the necessary licensing. Does this sound familiar? Harvey and Mike are going to have to fire him.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Here we go.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Just the end of a teaser. And it's game time.

[Patrick Adams]

Excellent. So we're into act one.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Jenny brings Mike a suit to Pearson Hardman. After being refused entries, she asks Rachel to deliver the suit.

[Patrick Adams]

This is a great scene. I mean, Megan and Vanessa are so great in this. There is not a hint of competition. It is very full, but they keep it really classy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Totally.

[Patrick Adams]

And mature. And I feel like. Yeah, yeah, they keep it really classy and mature. That's where we're.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It would have been so easy for that scene to be played with a little bit of, like, hey, who are you and what are you doing here? Yeah. Yeah. And none at all. Like, Jenny's fighting is so happy to see her, and they're supporting each other. Rachel is asked to do something that is a little awkward, but she does it with a smile on her face like, it's all good.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. What is it with that entrance to that building? I never used that entrance. That's the other side that I never used.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We only ever used it when I like Biked up to it. So we've only used it a few times. Yeah, it didn't get a lot of love.

[Patrick Adams]

I think they made it so that we weren't allowed to use it in later seasons. I think we had parameters. I think we did. We were bad girls and boys.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think we. We did some things wrong. Wrong. I do remember one particular story that I don't overlead the toes.

[Patrick Adams]

Tell it. Tell it. We can cut it later. We can cut it. Tell it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We can ask in the first season, at some point. I remember we were shooting there late night, and then I remember a big kerfuffle and a lot of people running around. I was like, what's going on? And so some. Some crew member, I don't know who. I don't know in what department had on the facilities.

[Patrick Adams]

Tinkled?

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, the other. Oh, number.

[Patrick Adams]

No, a crew member.

[Sarah Rafferty]

On the property? Yeah, on the property. Like behind a garbage can or something.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, it was an emergency, I guess.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't know. I don't want to speak to what was going on for that person. But I do know that after that moment, we were on sort of. We were on. We were in detention with this building. I don't know. Yeah. And. And I'm. It's weird to talk about it because it was. I was instructed for so long to never talk about it. It was like such a. On set, it was like, we don't talk about it. Nobody talks about it. So, yeah, that happened. But. But, yeah. Does he call her. What does he call her when she walks in? Didn't love that. I love that Doll. Called her Doll.

[Patrick Adams]

I love that you are noticing that you wrote here. Time's up.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Time's up, security guard. Doll. Hey, Doll. I. I don't know.

[Patrick Adams]

I appreciate that you're. That you're noticing those things.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I was like, what? Get out of here. And that she has no reaction. I'm like, no, you tell him no, doll. Get out of here. It's okay. So then Rachel heads upstairs.

[Patrick Adams]

If somebody called me doll today, I don't know that I'd tell him no.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, you'd like it. That's a good thing.

[Patrick Adams]

No, it depends on intention. And we'll get to that later.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think he was talking down to her.

[Patrick Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

If I. If you walked in was like, hey, doll, how are you this morning?

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, I might get a little warm.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We're like, we're nice. This guy's talking down to her and telling her, hey, Bob, this guy's putting up walls, not tearing them down. Hashtag feminism. Netcredit is here to say yes because you're more than a credit score. Apply in minutes and get a decision as soon as the same day. Loans offered by Netcredit or lending partner.

[Patrick Adams]

Banks and service by NetCredit.

[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick Adams]

Incredible.

[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

They make my eyes look refreshed.

[Patrick Adams]

Lumify it's kind of amazing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It was love at first sight with Lumify.

[Patrick Adams]

Try it for yourself. Learn more@lumify eyes.com.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, it's 2025. It's the new year. We just spent the holidays giving gifts to everybody we love. But you know what? You know what this year, Know what it's about now?

[Patrick Adams]

What?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Getting gifts for yourself, Maybe.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Even those that embrace the chilly weather need something to break up those long winter nights. So treat yourself to a little something without spending a fortun with quints. All quint Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they partner directly with top factories and cut out the cost of the middleman passing the savings on to you. And of course, they use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every piece. Sarah yes? Have you ordered anything from Quince?

[Patrick Adams]

I'm very excited. I have some luxury towels come in my room.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Good call. Towels.

[Patrick Adams]

Wrap myself up in some cozy towels in the cozy weather.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, for the pool. Like poolside Quince towels.

[Patrick Adams]

I think they're for my shower or my hot tub. I think it's for my bath time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Indoor. Your private bath time. You love your bath time.

[Patrick Adams]

I love my bath time. So I'm going to love my new towels.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Treat yourself this winter without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.com sidebar for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I n c e.com sidebar to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com sidebar Rachel finds Mike sleeping in the file room. You have a quibble for this scene. What do you got?

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, this scene. Okay, so Rachel finds Mike sleeping. Mike's under the desk. I love that. She comes in, she brings him the suit, and then he goes to change and she goes to leave. And then the camera catches her looking back more to see him changing. And then he catches her looking, and then she hightails it out of there. This is my quibble. Ladies, ladies in the booth. What do you think? I don't think she would have lingered to see him change. I think she would have extra hard acted like she wasn't interested in seeing him change. She would have, like, extra especially been like, oh, yeah, cool. Bye. I'm just gonna, like, get out of here. I'm gonna skedaddle real, real quick. Like, I don't care. Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But you would have had to see her see it. Like, that's what the. The. We needed to see her see it again.

[Patrick Adams]

We don't need any of this scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'll be very clear. But what is the thought, it seems is we just need to see her, just have a moment of some sort.

[Patrick Adams]

You're saying the moment, I think flustered, running. I would like. I could see her being like, oh, he's starting to change. I'm going to.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wow.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm going to whip around and I'm out of here. And I can have a private moment of the camera catching my face as I walk away, but not looking back, like, ooh, I want to see what's going on under there. That didn't feel.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, it didn't.

[Patrick Adams]

Right. I feel like I get 100% from Kimmy in the booth.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Cut this scene entirely. Maybe.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't know. I. I kind of feel like she's not in control of her. Her factions because she really likes this guy and she's fighting it really hard. So maybe. So I. The part of me thinks that maybe.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She would do that.

[Patrick Adams]

Got it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What are her factions?

[Patrick Adams]

Affections.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Her.

[Patrick Adams]

She's from Tennessee.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She said factions. Faculties. Her faculties. Factions.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, faculties.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Factions.

[Patrick Adams]

I love it. I love it. I love it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I hate this scene.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm not letting. I'm. Nope.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, no, I just. I'm allowed to hate it. No, no. I'm allowed to. I'm allowed to.

[Patrick Adams]

This is a no and no.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I hear you and I appreciate you. What I'm saying is I don't need this. I don't need a shirtless Mike Ross in this show. I don't need it. It's not the point of his character. I don't ever. I don't want to be shirtless. I want to be covered in thick Canadian layers. That's how I'm best served. That's how I'm best served, is layered. And so I don't like it. I don't want it. And that is the end of my story.

[Patrick Adams]

Okay. I'm gonna hold space for you to not like it and not want it. But I am not holding space for any criticisms.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, I didn't say anything. I just said I don't like it.

[Patrick Adams]

Don't talk about my friend like that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, fair enough.

[Patrick Adams]

Don't talk about my friend like that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, we should do a naked pod one time, though.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm naked from here down. I'm totally naked.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Our bathtub pod. This year it's happening.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't see why we wouldn't do it in the bathtub. Except for sound. But, like, we could. What? The sound could be sick. It could be like a dreamscape.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Kimmy's giving us that producer nod, like, yeah, totally, guys.

[Patrick Adams]

But, yep, we're a hunt. Sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, no, bathtub pod. We could do it, I think.

[Patrick Adams]

I feel like mud bath would be.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay because that would absorb the sound. Yeah, mudding we should do. But you can't.

[Patrick Adams]

Really weird. How about we find a really weird hotel in Los Angeles where we can get HPV doing. Doing the.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You want HPV? I can get you HPV by 3:00. Let's get back in. Mike brings all the files to Harvey, but the background check is missing. Mike has to get it fast. I think Gabriel and I are, like, in a groove in this.

[Patrick Adams]

You are. I agree.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You can tell when I'm in a good mood. There's a couple of episodes ago where you could tell I was not in a good mood.

[Patrick Adams]

And watching it. Did it make you not in a good mood?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe that, too. But you could just tell when I'm like. You can tell when I'm in step with the director and when I'm feeling it and when I'm getting it, and then when I'm not. And I feel like in this episode, you can see both Gabriel and I are like, we're a team. It's funny, but kind of in an effortless way. We're telling the story effectively. We're really talking and listening to each other.

[Patrick Adams]

So that's invaluable. Yeah, that's invaluable.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, 100%.

[Patrick Adams]

Okay, so, Patrick, we're getting to one of my favorite scenes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay.

[Patrick Adams]

You might even need to watch it. So Mike visits Lewis looking for help, and he gets, like, a lot of tmi. Okay, can we look? Can we look at this? Yeah, let's watch it. I just want to enjoy this with you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Come in, come in. Could you help me with something? I need to get this. Facts for Harvey and. Good morning.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, my God. Rick's face, His Smile.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Good morning.

[Patrick Adams]

Good morning.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He needs. You can tell, can't you? I bet you everybody can.

[Patrick Adams]

Jiggling.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Tell what?

[Patrick Adams]

Eyebrows.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You wax your eyebrows? I was with the most beautiful woman last night. She waxed your eyebrows. We did a lot of things last night, and waxing wasn't one of them, if you know what I mean.

[Patrick Adams]

The jiggle.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, God. Well, that's great. I'm here to Reese. We have so much in common. And, Mike, there was like this. There was like this. Mm.

[Patrick Adams]

Mm.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like a chemical thing that would happen when our bodies would touch.

[Patrick Adams]

Mm.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I really don't want to have this conversation with you. Oh, come on. We're both guys, right? Little locker room talk around the office. I mean, that creates a little male bonding. Yeah. That's crazy. I just heard my name. Did you hear that? Someone calling. I'm gonna. Just. One second. Okay.

[Patrick Adams]

There's probably still a virgin. And that was improv'd. That was improv.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The virgin?

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, no, but the virgin. Didn't we just have a virgin line before?

[Patrick Adams]

We did in the previous scene. Yeah, but then he brought it into here, and he wasn't in the previous.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Scene, but he brought it into here, and nobody told him that. The scene before we had a virgin line.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, we don't know. I mean, he was at a table read, so maybe he knew.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, interesting. Right? But great. Great. I mean. Yeah. Look how many. I don't know how many times we can say it on this podcast.

[Patrick Adams]

Let's say a couple more times.

[Sarah Rafferty]

A genius.

[Patrick Adams]

Let's say it a couple more times.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This guy's a genius.

[Patrick Adams]

To talk about it all day, if you want to. I got all.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We're all working for Rick Hoffman here. Look, He's. He's unbelievable. And it just gets better with age. Do you have the same experience? People love suits. I get stopped all the time. Oh, my God. Thank you. We love the show. Can I take a picture? Almost everybody wants to know about Rick Hoffman. Wants to tell me what a genius he is. You were great on the show, but Rick Hart.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know, like. And I always kind of hated it. Cause I'm a human being with an ego. And now that I'm watching the show, I'm like, oh, yeah, 100%. I mean, love that. Yes, of course. He's on a whole other level. He's doing something that very few people know how to do, so bow down. And yes, this scene definitely wins the. Rick Hoffman should have won an Emmy award.

[Patrick Adams]

And can it. Can we do. Can we go on A little search to see if there's any GIFs that this week could be on the social media of him doing his little, like, wiggle or his overbite or his Caddyshack little dance.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Why don't we do that? Good idea. Why don't we do that offline? Like, I mean, let's.

[Patrick Adams]

No, I'm not suggesting we do it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You want to do it right now? Let's all just take a minute. We're gonna go gif hunting right now.

[Patrick Adams]

That was going through the edit machine. I was.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know. And you didn't say it, which I'm proud of you. Proud of you. I'm so used to it being said.

[Patrick Adams]

No, actually, now, you guys leave that in. I insist. I'm gonna be Matt. Are we in a fight? We're in a fight.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, we're in a fight.

[Patrick Adams]

Good. I'm so mad at you. Let's move on.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Mike locates Stan's background check and then greets him in the lobby and brings him into Harvey's office. After being presented with the facts of the situation, Stan insists that he's being railroaded and walks out before accepting his severance. John Billingsley. John Billingsley, who you of course know as Dr. Flocks, the Denobulan Chief Medical Officer of Enterprise NX01 from Star Trek Enterprise, as we all know and love.

[Patrick Adams]

Him from where I said, I just need to check in. How are you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, he can check in. Yep. I remember the minute I saw John Billingsley on the call sheet. Yeah. Of the show. I was like, oh, damn, here we go.

[Patrick Adams]

What did you feel and where did you feel it at your point?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, truthfully, I wasn't a huge Star Trek Enterprise fan. I was a Next Generation guy and an original Star Trek guy. So I had watched the episode. I knew he's the thing that Star Trek was so good at doing. If we want to have a little Star Trek moment, here is the best actors in the world would go and work on Star Trek. Patrick Stewart, like, the show, was really good at hiring, like, classically trained, amazing actors. And John Billingsley, as demonstrated by his work in this episode, is one of the best. He's so good.

[Patrick Adams]

He's so good. It's impossible.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And he was wonderful on the show on Star Trek Enterprise, and we were lucky to have him.

[Patrick Adams]

And I loved this casting because the minute I laid eyes on him, I mean, first of all, you do the. Oh, my God, that guy, that guy, that guy. I love that guy. You do that and maybe you don't Know his name because he's that journeyman actor that, you know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, he's definitely a that guy.

[Patrick Adams]

He's so transformative. He's a that guy. But I was like, oh, oh, oh. I'm intrigued now about the story of what went wrong, because there's nothing nefarious going on here. That guy didn't do anything nefarious. Like, from laying eyes on his face, like, he didn't do anything wrong.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, this is a good guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

So it's just like, oh, but that's. Don't look at me like I'm stupid.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm not. I'm looking at his credits right now.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, sorry.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Nothing to do with you.

[Patrick Adams]

So then he. The best thing happens is that you take him into Harvey's office. And this moment about the balls in Harvey's office, the joy that he brings into the room, it's unbelievable. I reround that section.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He loves his balls.

[Patrick Adams]

So good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Anyway, we head into act two in Jessica's office. Harvey brings Jessica and Tori up to speed. Tori is furious, but Harvey suspects that she is hiding something. Jessica instructs Harvey to close the deal. We have the wonderful Andrea Parker here, who also plays Vanessa, Ray's mom on Pretty Little Liars.

[Patrick Adams]

Amazing. Didn't know that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. Harvey meets Mike in the bullpen. Mike is diving into Stan's suspicions, but Harvey tells him to go home. Jessica's not happy with him. Oh, yeah. I really appreciate. In the scene before Harvey stands up for Mike.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, he does.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We haven't seen that a lot. He usually sides. He usually loves to give Mike a berating, you know, and teach him lessons. But it's nice to see him really stand up for Mike.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, I think that it's because he is starting to sweat it a little bit.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

And that's making him defensive of Mike and then extra hard on Mike at the same time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, it's a great call. He doesn't want Jessica coming out. I mean, if Jessica comes after him, he's gonna get Gabrieled. It's gonna get Harvey too. So. But then, yes, of course, you're right. The flip side of this coin, as he goes right in to the bullpen and pulls Mike out and gives him a talking to.

[Patrick Adams]

So I think this is such a great. I was saying especially that it's a great episode for you, but it is such a great episode for Gabriel. We'll get into it more from this point on, but that he has the opportunity to be struggling with this thing. And what Gabriel does so well, is. He can do it so, so, so, so subtly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Well, it's great, too, because Gabriel has such a big heart.

[Patrick Adams]

So this is great.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And so, you know, and we'd hopefully get Gabriel on here to talk about the process of playing Harvey Spector, but he's more of a Mike Ross guy. Like, he has empathy.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He believes in feeling things and having empathy and relating to people. And so it's interesting to watch a sc. He has to tell me to stop feeling empathy for every client and just do the job and pay attention to the evidence, because it's filtered through a guy who doesn't 100% believe what he's saying. He's a great actor. He can do it. But I think Harvey, to some extent, can't be that much of an automaton either. So Harvey's having to say something out loud that there's the slightest part of him that's hard to say because he realizes how cold it sounds, and you can feel it in the performance without him having to say a word about it.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, I have some places where I want to point it out, I think.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Coming up, Harvey finds Stan on the street, presents him with a choice. A lawsuit or the severance agreement. Tough scene.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, this is tough. I mean, obviously Harvey is forced to overcorrect a little bit after the Jessica conversation. I think it did make him nervous in some way. It's hard to see him being so tough on such a winning character that is in the same predicament that Mike is in, so he can seem heartless.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, I think you're right, though. I mean, it's a tough. We don't like to see Harvey do this. Especially, like, we haven't seen someone so nice.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But at the same time, and this is. I'm more in your camp, but then I'm watching it and I'm like, story wise. This really helps. Harvey is trying to be the version of himself. The people just the closer. Get it done. I have no feelings. He's, like, trying to do it.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And he can do it. Well. Yeah, he's really good at doing it. And as demonstrated in the scene, he knows exactly how to play the chess game to get him.

[Patrick Adams]

He's struggling. He's struggling, and he is not. Gabriel. The actor is not telegraphing that. He's just living in it. And so we get it. It's so good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He doesn't need to play it. If he were to be playing it, it would be too much.

[Patrick Adams]

But I think Gabriel has a particular gift in how he understands the camera, what a camera can capture, you know, so he doesn't put a hat on things.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But again, Jennifer knows they pick it because so often we'll do this stuff in scenes, and then you'll watch the cut and you'll be like, but I gave that little look to him in that moment. And it's like, well, they're cutting a whole episode together and they didn't see that moment. Like it didn't land. And then you're like, oh, I didn't make it. Didn't do it well enough, or something. Jennifer is seeing all the moments and putting them in. And yes, of course, Gabriel and all of. I think everybody in this episode's delivering them. Anyway, Jenny shows up at Mike's apartment. Mike shares his problem. He needs information, but no one is talking. So Mike and Jenny check in at the Harvard Club to get cozy with some lawyers.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Jenny in this dress.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Torres, do we have a Tor Riz Award?

[Patrick Adams]

Go ahead and throw it down.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is the winner. This is the winner so far.

[Patrick Adams]

Nice. I. You know what? I love the Torres award so much that I think we can throw it down a couple times if we want. If we need to.

[Sarah Rafferty]

100.

[Patrick Adams]

If we're called upon to throw it down, we throw it down 100%.

[Sarah Rafferty]

NetCredit is here to say yes to a personal loan or line of credit. When other lenders say no, apply in minutes and get a decision as soon as the same day. If approved applications are typically funded the next business day or sooner. Loans offered by Netcredit or lending partner banks and serviced by Netcredit. Applications subject to review and approval. Learn [e-mail] partner netcredit credit to the people. Wow.

[Patrick Adams]

Incredible.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Amazing.

[Patrick Adams]

Lumify Redness Reliever. Eye drops really work.

[Sarah Rafferty]

They dramatically reduce redness and one minute.

[Patrick Adams]

I love how my eyes look whiter and brighter and it lasts for up to eight hours.

[Sarah Rafferty]

They make my eyes look refreshed.

[Patrick Adams]

Lumify.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's kind of amazing. It was love at first sight with Lumify.

[Patrick Adams]

Try it for yourself. Learn more@lumify eyes.com.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. Yeah. We have calories in us. We have nuts in our mouths.

[Patrick Adams]

Just wait. Let me have an almond. Hold on. You know what? Let me just. Oh, I was kidding when I threw it down. All this stuff. If I'm mad at you, you'll know. Probably.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, I've seen it.

[Patrick Adams]

You have?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick Adams]

You mean mad at you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick Adams]

When have I been mad at you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my God. Like this week. What Are you talking about what week you want to know? This week. You haven't been mad at me. I've seen you not mad, but I've seen sharpness.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, I have sharpness. I get frustrated at circumstances. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Or like, when I don't, like, let you finish a sentence, which is. You know what I mean? Like, you've gotten, like, sharp. In a good way.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

I mean like mad.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Not like long term mad. No. Have you been long term mad at me before?

[Patrick Adams]

Never.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Never.

[Patrick Adams]

Do you remember the time I came up to you when you were avoiding me because you were going to quit suits, and I was like, you're avoiding me? I'm not mad at you. I think you're making the right decision for your life. And I love you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, well, that was just a tough time. That's a. That's a whole other pod. How many other pods do we have now? Are we writing them all down?

[Patrick Adams]

Okay, hold on. I just have to finish chewing. But I think it's going to be better for all of us that she.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Has some nuts in her. I just want to take this moment to say hi to the guy in Greenland. We. We hope you're still with us.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't like that we've gendered the Greenland listener.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't. Oh, wait. Why did I think it's.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Whoa. I need to take a look at that. I appreciate that. Thank you for your reflection. You ready? So then Harvey visits a Judge Morrison in night court. He has a favor to ask him. I like to see Harvey in, like, a night court. He's like, down in the.

[Patrick Adams]

He's got friends everywhere.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He's down in the depths of the city doing his. You know, he was the spirit, right? Harvey was the superhero. He's down there mingling with the people. I like that. Everybody owes him something. What do you think Anthony did that. That. That Harvey helped him with?

[Patrick Adams]

What do you think? In the middle of the night, Anthony needed help with?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

What do you think?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's got to be something sex worker related, for sure.

[Patrick Adams]

Really? You guys went there?

[Sarah Rafferty]

What do you think? It's. What do you think I would have.

[Patrick Adams]

Gone to, like, sexual harassment first or that he was. Oh, like, sending photos in, like, bad. Not in the middle of the night.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That feels like a daytime problem to me.

[Patrick Adams]

A day. Oh, you're looking for a night.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You robbed a bank.

[Patrick Adams]

A nighttime problem.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, it's got to be a nighttime problem. And how many nighttime problems are there? Maybe. Hey, let's not. Why are we gendering the sex worker?

[Patrick Adams]

I didn't say.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, I'm gendering it. Damn it.

[Patrick Adams]

I need to tell you how sweet Kimmy is. She just said, why are we assuming it's Judge Morrison?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe he has a child who needed help. Oh, that's true.

[Patrick Adams]

Yes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

In the middle of the night, though, like. Oh, like a grown child, for instance.

[Patrick Adams]

Like his child.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Whatever it is, It's a sex worker.

[Patrick Adams]

His child snuck out and got drunk or something. Or his child and then was taken away to the patty. What is it?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Excuse me? I think she's trying to say patty wagon. Patty wagon.

[Patrick Adams]

Taking away in the patty.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Mike runs into Lewis, who's on a date. As off putting as it is to Mike to see Lewis engaging romantically, boy, is it fun for us as an audience.

[Patrick Adams]

That's a good point.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We haven't seen it as far as we've known he's asexual until this episode. And it opens up a whole can of worms that we're gonna get a lot more of those worms later on. And I think it's great. I think it's funny. It begs the question, now, wait, who is the right fit for this man?

[Patrick Adams]

For Lewis?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

It begs the question, who is Lewis?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, who is Lewis? What's he about? What's his private life like? We don't know much about that. And who's he?

[Patrick Adams]

Well, we know too much about some of the details.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick Adams]

Time's up on the description of this woman in the one liner. It's in the script.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's fine. What is it about the one liner?

[Patrick Adams]

It just says, Lewis spots a cougar. I'm enraged. I think we. I think this is a danger zone. This is the high highway to the danger zone. So we're gonna move right on. Let's pick up where we can.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I wanna talk about cougars, where we.

[Patrick Adams]

Can transition into it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The judge finds what Harvey is looking for, but it just leads to more questions. Meanwhile, Mike and Jenny leave the Harvard Club. Jenny has stolen the ID of a lawyer that Mike had been trying to talk to all night. And he heads to that firm to look through the documents, but he's caught by security.

[Patrick Adams]

Jenny is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She's a maybe a little troublemaker.

[Patrick Adams]

I love it. No, she's a problem solver.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Good way. The security guard is holding Mike, trying to extort Harvey, but it doesn't work. Leaving Harvey explains a shelf company to Mike. Shout out to Patrick Gallagher, who played the security guard. Here he is. He's a that guy.

[Patrick Adams]

He is a that guy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Canadian Arts and Entertainment world. And he's great in this scene. I don't love this scene. I'm like, okay, we get it. Harvey's always ready. Right? Like, this scene to me is. We've been talking about subtlety, and in this scene, it's like, yet again, Harvey's like, I know your kids, and you gotta go to little League, and you haven't paid your wife the thing. And it's like, oh, get it? It's a little much for me. But then what I realize is it almost explains we're seeing a version of an interaction much like the Anthony that the court. The judge.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah, he is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, it's not just, I'm getting Mike out of something. I'm creating a relationship with somebody.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm. This is a tit for tattoo.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, I might ask you for something later on. It's real. Like, Godfathery.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'll explain the Godfather to you later on.

[Patrick Adams]

Could you mansplain it to me?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, yeah, I will definitely mansplain it to you.

[Patrick Adams]

Can you, like, strum a guitar while.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I explain the Godfather to me? And I like seeing that. I like seeing, like, oh, that's how you. You do business. Like, you turn an uncomfortable thing into an opportunity for you later on.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Anyway, Mike returns to the bullpen to find the associates at his desk watching security footage of Lewis and his date. Things do not go well. Lewis walks in and sees what's happening.

[Patrick Adams]

What do you think Lewis did?

[Sarah Rafferty]

God, well, how funny was this?

[Patrick Adams]

I mean, he got smacked in the face and then kneed in the balls.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yep.

[Patrick Adams]

And then she comes back and gives him a kick while he's on the ground.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, he definitely said something.

[Patrick Adams]

Yes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She got far enough to get to the office. And then. So it's something you say right before you get on the elevator.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah. He called her a cougar.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's a good point.

[Patrick Adams]

She said to him, I would love to see your office. Right. She said that to him at the cocktail party at the Harbor House.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. So he's taking her there.

[Patrick Adams]

So he's taking her there. And then I think. Don't you think he, like, presumed that something would happen at the office, that she was presuming?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, no, I think she was presuming that. I think she was into it. I just think then he says something to screw it up, and I think you're right. Cougar would do it.

[Patrick Adams]

I don't think cougar would do it. Do you? Maybe she's not call me a cougar. See what happens?

[Sarah Rafferty]

We're gonna offline this. I think if you said it in the right way, especially Louis Litt could find a way to say cougar in.

[Patrick Adams]

The worst way possible.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, Like, I've never been with a cougar before. And she'd just be like, what? He'd be like, you're a cougar. And then she'd slap him, and he'd be like, bad kitty. And then she'd knee him.

[Patrick Adams]

Wow, you have some level of detail. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Maybe he. Maybe she slapped him and he. He thought it was, like, part of the game.

[Patrick Adams]

You know what I think? Because one of the things I was thinking about last night when I was wondering what she did, what happened, was that I do think that he was maybe playing a role play game where he thought he was crushing it and he took it too far. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, exactly. That's. Yeah. We're on the same page.

[Patrick Adams]

We're on the same page, but. Yeah. You just don't think whatever I'm saying is better than what you said Always. Yeah. That's all I wanted to make sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

Okay, good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We don't even have to say that.

[Patrick Adams]

I mean.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so Jessica and Harvey bring Stan back for a meeting. They want his help taking down the accounting firm. Meanwhile, Rachel finds Mike in the library. Here we go. Big scene. Talk me through it. What's happening here?

[Patrick Adams]

Okay, well, I don't want to talk. I. Okay, hang on.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I can talk first if you want.

[Patrick Adams]

No, I. So what's interesting. Okay, so this scene is particularly interesting. You guys are in the library. She reminds you. You're saying you need these documents. You can't have access to them. She figures out what you need them for. Like, do you actually need those documents, or do you just need the content of those documents? She figures that out for you, and she points to your dome and says, you've got them. They're right in there. And then she offers to type for you while you rattle them off from your Beautiful Mind.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Then I got quibbles. Can we just stop right there before we get into the end of the scene? Because I think it's good to separate the two, because this is a big scene. Obviously, something happens between Rachel, but I just. Before we get to that, I got a quibble. A quibble's got a quibble. Where are we at with Mike's brain here? Right? And I'm feeling the same frustration I think I felt as an actor. Like, we don't want to play it up. We kind of have stayed away from It. And if they do do it, it's like almost like a parlor trick that he has sometimes where he can kind of remember a thing. Like with Ben in the last episode, I can remember numbers. Even that was sort of pushing it a bit.

[Patrick Adams]

Benjamin. It's Benjamin.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Benjamin. Sorry. We're friends. I don't know what to tell you, but in this sequence, I'm like, oh, this is an absurd superpower. Like, you're telling me, like, that he legitimately can look at what is what. Hundreds of pages of paperwork that he can read instantly and retain all of the knowledge. I understand the show wanted to kind of move away from this because it was, like, not the point of the show. The show was strong enough without it. We didn't need this kind of superpower. And I think it was a fun thing at the beginning, and I understood why the show was moving away from it. But then in a scene like this, I'm like, if he can do this, it's so weird to not use it in multiple different ways all the time. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it's almost done. But I mean. And this might have to do with. I've never known anyone with photographic memory like this, so I don't also have, like, a frame of reference.

[Patrick Adams]

Wait, that would be really fun to talk to somebody who has a memory like that. Fascinating.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Like, if you can just instantly remember things. I would love to talk to that person. But I hear. I understand why it's used here. A, it helps them in the case. B, it gives her something to be really impressed by and be a part of and witness firsthand the superpower he has. But it just feels frustrating to me. And I remember, as an actor as well, just being like, are we doing this thing or are we not doing it? Because it just feels like we're using it sometimes for, like, a singular purpose, and then it just kind of goes away and it doesn't become foundational to the show.

[Patrick Adams]

And this is episode 10 or 11.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, this is episode 10.

[Patrick Adams]

Right. So you're at a point, the fatigue sets in, and you've been playing it long enough to be like, what? What are we doing? What are we doing?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Either let's, like, do more with it or not do it at all. Yeah, that was sort of how I felt. And. And the show leaves it behind. I mean, I think that's true. We don't really. From my memory, it goes further and further away, but here it comes back strong and in a really intense, impressive way anyway.

[Patrick Adams]

You know, when you're going through something emotional. It gets real bad before it gets good, before you're relieved of it. It's like the show is like, let's just lean in real hard to this and try. And then we'll maybe we'll either continue or it'll die. And it sits. This might be the death knell. Is this the death knell?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't know. I don't know. We'll have to see where it goes. It does lead to one of the cringiest lines ever.

[Patrick Adams]

Give it to me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Your mind is amazing.

[Patrick Adams]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, props to Megan for delivering. That is a tough assignment. When you see that line on the page and you're like, I gotta deliver this. And I say this, saying the rest of this episode is brilliantly written. That is just a tough line. It's a tough line for after all of that, knowing that it's also trying to tee up what's about to happen, which we should get into now, which is. Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

So I have some questions about the very next moment. You know, Mike and Rachel have bonded over this thing. They're helping each other out. Then Mike goes to text to his phone to start texting. She's like, oh, are you texting your girlfriend? Then you start calling her by name. And then Rachel starts talking about how hard it is with an 80 hour week to be in a relationship. And then you say, well, it's not going to be hard with my girlfriend Jenny. And then she kisses you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're a little, I don't know.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm not sure I'm open to all opinions and I would like a lot of opinions even outside of the SiriusXM studios today. But I'm curious, like first of all, are we ready for the kiss yet?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think the show's ready for it here. I felt ready for it. I felt ready. I mean, I feel tension. I feel like, oh God, no, it's. But I also know that's how life works, right? Like one thing starts happening, other things happen. It's. It's all sort of snowballing at once. But I feel like the show's ready for it.

[Patrick Adams]

I could have gone maybe a little longer with the will they, won't they?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, it's still. I still feel some will they, won't they? This happened. But I don't know that they're doing anything about it.

[Patrick Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like in the next scene we see them and they're just like, hey, that was weird. Like, you know, I'm not getting the impression that they're no.

[Patrick Adams]

And that's a great scene. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right. So I get the. What I like about this scene is it is a surprise, which is often in my experience. It's been a long time since I had an experience like this. But they happen out of nowhere sometimes. Even though there's buildup to it. It's like, oh, my God, this is the moment that this has happened.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And you're sort of, you're both shocked by it. I don't really condemn Rachel. I don't. It feels like they're both caught up in a moment. Like it just happens. Which I think is played really nicely. I think it just, there's as, as Kiki would say, they have no control of their factions. I think I get the impression, like, I don't walk away from the scene going, like judgments about either of these people. I go, oh, you're in it now. Now you have. Yeah, there's gonna be some decisions to make. But I didn't. I personally am not walking away from the scene thinking like, anybody's done anything wrong.

[Patrick Adams]

No, I was just. No, I, and I see that. I've just. Hey, bro, I'm just here asking the questions.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, bro.

[Patrick Adams]

No, I think this is good. I'm wondering, does anybody know how the fans reacted at the time?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think people wanted Mike and Rachel to be together. Right. It was. So I think while they were probably like, oh, why did you throw Jenny into the mix here? This complicates our feelings. I think I would have to guess that people are fighting for Mike and Rachel to be together at this point.

[Patrick Adams]

Okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Am I wrong?

[Patrick Adams]

I was really into the, I was briefly into the Jenny scene, but, like.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know, the show wants to put these two people together.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, 100%.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You can feel the show wants Jenny to be a very complicated barrier to it. Yeah, but it's like the show, it's like Ross and Rachel. Not if people out there. I'm not comparing myself to Friends. We do not think we're better than Friends. Last time I said something about another show, we went into the stratosphere.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Anyway, I, I think the show clearly wants Mike and Rachel to be together. They're putting barriers in the way, but I would have to guess that fans were probably stoked.

[Patrick Adams]

Okay, well, we'll follow up on that and see. I, I, I agree with you. I, I, I mean, I can, I'm actually Switzerland. I'm curious. I'm curious. I think I would imagine that this was a hard decision to make. Listen, but you're talking to the person who played the character that had a will they won't they for the full for eight years.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You really got a masterclass of it.

[Patrick Adams]

Let us know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let us know out there. Fans, what do you think? Act 5. Mike runs into Rachel in the hallway. Things are a little awkward.

[Patrick Adams]

Great situation.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We talked about it. But I love that we're not sure. I do want to say in general, do you find I always be careful about just talking about people's appearance on this show, but Rachel has like a different vibe in this episode.

[Patrick Adams]

She has a different look.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like her hair. It feels like something shifted and sort of geared up.

[Patrick Adams]

First of all, I think the light on her is a little bit different. And I think it does take a second to figure out how to light everybody differently on a TV show as you work your way down the call sheet, you know. And I noticed that there was a shift in her makeup, in the tones and the palette on her eyes. There's clearly a shift in her clothes. So for example, I think we're discovering that her silhouette is going to be the pencil skirt with the shirt look. And the pencil skirt is a high waisted pencil skirt and it's long, it's below the knee. And you are right, the skirts have changed. So the difference is that's a more sophisticated look than what you're saying in these first episodes when we didn't have Jolie right out of the gate. And also we had that a little bit of a period of transition into Jolie. So they would have had to be ordering the clothes and getting them in. And then now we've landed at this point into a silhouette that is going to become kind of indicative of the Rachel character. And it is, you're right, it is more elegant and elevated.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think she looks fantastic in this episode. Yeah, I think it's something levels up in a big way. I'm curious to.

[Patrick Adams]

We may have gotten more time with the tailor and I'm not kidding.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Back to the Taylor.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Anyway, Harvey and Jessica lay out their lawsuit against Tori. Jessica crushing it in this scene. So fun to watch her be the one giving the screws to the bad guy, right?

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, yeah, totally. And she's a knockout in a black and white outfit that's so good that she needs to be arrested by the what? The what?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I. My guess is you're going to say fashion, please.

[Patrick Adams]

Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Sorry. Oh, wait, no, let's take it back. Let's take it back. That the fashion.

[Patrick Adams]

No, that was. What's the opposite of an orgasm. Jessica is such a knockout in this black and white outfit. It's so good that she needs to be arrested by the fashion police. Sorry. Sorry, guys. Let's just move on.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I didn't mean to. Oh, no. Moments after victory, Harvey tells Stan that he, in fact, will not be getting his job back.

[Patrick Adams]

This is so hard.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a beautiful scene. Stan plays it beautifully. When Stan says, I never should have.

[Patrick Adams]

Done it, oh, my God. He's not looking at you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He doesn't look at me. He's just like, yeah. And it's just.

[Patrick Adams]

And then he turns on his head.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And you just, like, breaks your heart for Mike, too, because you're like, I don't want to be this guy. I don't want to be this guy 20 years from now. But Kiki wants you to know. You don't have to worry, team, because we are going to find out what became of Stan later in the series. Thank God.

[Patrick Adams]

Don't even tell us. Don't tell us when. I'm so glad that we can look forward to that. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so then Harvey visits Jessica in her office and reminds her of Mike's role in their success. Nice.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Love to see at the end, Harvey, you know, standing up for Mike again.

[Patrick Adams]

Is this the first time, though, that we're really, really, like, doing? Having the camera push in on Jessica's spidey sense that something's off about the Mike thing? Is this really the first time?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, would you think she has more spidey sense in this scene or in that earlier scene? In the episode? Well, in this episode, yes, in this episode. In this scene, she. She seems to be a bit more convinced that he's an asset, right?

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, I don't know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, what she says, she's like, I guess I should give him more credit. Let's pull it up. We gotta pull it up.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm sorry.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, no. We gotta pull it up. You've done this. Now you're gonna watch.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm gonna have a nut then. Do you want one?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Put some nuts in my mouth. Told you they wouldn't catch me.

[Patrick Adams]

What are you looking for, Harvey? Positive reinforcement?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Nothing major. Trophy? No bell.

[Patrick Adams]

Would your likeness in bronze in the lobby be okay?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Bust or life size?

[Patrick Adams]

You did a good thing, Harvey.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, it wasn't just me, you know.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, then I guess I should give the kid the benefit of the doubt from that. I didn't believe that you should.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, I see what you say.

[Patrick Adams]

And she's taking a note.

[Sarah Rafferty]

All right, all right, all right, all Right. All right.

[Patrick Adams]

She took a note. You need to. You need to chew elsewhere. You're gonna need to chew on that elsewhere.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I see your point. Good point. She's still onto me. I'm scared for when she's gonna find out.

[Patrick Adams]

You should be right. You should be very afraid.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Mike confronts Harvey in a scene following this. He believes they've made a mistake. Why did Harvey have to hire him in the first place? You love this scene. I think I don't love this scene. Let's get into it.

[Patrick Adams]

Let's get into it. So I think it's a great scene. It's a scene that has been gifed. I think there's the. This is the scene where Harvey says, life is here.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Life is this. I like this.

[Patrick Adams]

So I think that moment has been kind of mythologized in the suits world. There's a lot of social media about that moment. And my question for you is, is this Harvey just basically saying that he's an adrenaline junkie and Mike needs to just deal with it or quit? Like, is that what we're supposed to think that moment is? Mike goes to Harvey and says, why did you do this? Mike is really scared. Harvey's acting like he really isn't. And he's saying, like, this is where I like to live my life on the edge. And I think perhaps I can't say how people have interpreted this moment, but I'm thinking the popularity of the moment is that Harvey is at peak coolness when he says that. It's showing that Harvey is completely disconnected from his partner and disconnected from his own feelings of fear. Like, he is totally avoidant of the moment that this scene is bringing up, which is asking him to take some responsibility for the worry about this and maybe comfort or come up with a plan or solutions. And I think in some ways, it's really selfish and ruggedly individualistic. And maybe it's, like, very, very kind of American as a trope. And I know our show was very popular kind of outside of the US Too. So maybe it was like a signature kind of American tough man thing to say. Remember, Aaron sent us that text. We talked about how he was so great as Harvey Specter because of all the things that he brought, including this specific kind of vulnerability that he is playing this with, I think, which I think is very, very subtle. So it's not the first thing that you notice. And I think it sets us up to be not just tuning into the cool dude that Harvey Specter is, but to be invested in years following the growth of this man on television. I think it's amazing how he played it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think my issue with the scene is like, a different. I think I agree with everything you just said, but I think where I'm coming at this from, too, is that the chief complaint when I did used to read comments online when the show came out, was that people got very frustrated with my character when they perceived him to be whiny.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, yeah, I understand that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Or like, I didn't see this blaming anyone for his situation. Right. I understand Mike being freaked out by what's just happened and coming in and needing to talk about it and being like, this is messing me up. What are we gonna do? Because I can't end up like that. But he comes in and he gets really hot and angry at Harvey, and I guess I'm just not buying it. In this scene, I'm not buying, like, that Mike's not smart enough to realize, like, that he can't separate his fear, and he has to make it about something Harvey's done to him. That's where I'm having a hard time. He's young, and I guess, obviously we do these things when we're young. But I'm almost now able to put myself in the position of the people who would comment on Mike and be like, you chose this. He says it in the scene. He's like, you can tap out anytime you want. You don't want to be here. You don't want to be here.

[Patrick Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And so, in a way, I'm. And maybe it's just because I'm an older person now. I'm on Harvey's side in the scene. I'm like, we can have a conversation about what are we gonna do? And it's scary, and there's room for that. We all need to have that conversation. We should have that conversation. Like, how do we better prepare ourselves for the inevitability that this might come out? Whatever. But I feel like coming at Mike, coming at Harvey, and just attacking him in saying, like, why would you do this to me? Is a little.

[Patrick Adams]

If it came off that way, I wasn't reading that. I mean, necessarily that way.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Why say those words? I say, why did you do this?

[Patrick Adams]

Well, yeah, I want to hear it from your side. Why did you choose to be the other half of this equation? There's two takes, two to tango in this. Lie, getting hired, and being the fraud.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But even as you said it there, it's inquisitive. Can you tell me why you did this? So that we can get To a solution. And this. He's coming at him hot and angry. It's that.

[Patrick Adams]

It's the anger asks that a lot.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's the anger at Harvey that I don't. That I'm not buying. I'm buying the whole scene. And maybe it's just. So this is my performance. I'm not buying. I'm going to come in and get angry at you for this. It feels like we're trying to create conflict between the two of us rather than let the conflict be the. What the hell are we going to do? I wish I'd come into this scene just playing. I'm terrified. And that's there. You can see he's scared, and that's why he's doing what he is. But I just think it's a little juvenile to come in and start attacking hard.

[Patrick Adams]

It would be interesting if Aaron were here, because he might say. Because I've had these conversations with him about some Donna choices, too. When he wanted, for example, like, more anger or something. He's like, people don't come in, aren't in control of their emotions all the time. Like, you know, he. He comes in and he. He misfires with anger or whatever. I'm just playing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Just shut up and say the words.

[Patrick Adams]

I think it's a good question. I think it's important, though, to, like, in Mike's defense, which you don't need me to take right now. I'm not saying that you're not pushing me into that, but in defense of, like, Mike struggling with it, he gets. It's pretty tough that Harvey doesn't show up. Well, maybe he does that. He doesn't show up saying, hey, I'm in it with you. He says, you can. You deal with it, and if you don't like it, you can quit. I like it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Exactly. And that is the scene. It's like, this is always gonna be me. I live on the edge. That's what I took that to mean.

[Patrick Adams]

I think I understand that you wanted the performance to be different or the scene to be different from Mike's side, and I think that's very fair. And I think, you know, Mike could have. I think Mike could have come in even more upset. I mean, like, there were so. There's so many ways.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

And who knows what the. You probably can't remember what the conversation with Sean Jablonski and Jennifer were in the room that day when you guys were. No, blocking me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And look, this is. I have to be. This is like tiny little dials turning, you know, Watching these things, they are what they are. Trying to appreciate it for what it was. It's just sometimes there's like, a little intention shift where as the actor, I'm like, ooh, I'd love to get back in there. Oh, yeah, put me back in that room. I just want to do a little dial turn, because I would move it two degrees in another direction. Tis what it is.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Anyway, Jenny comes to Pearson Hardman to pick up Mike. She runs into Lewis, who warns her about Micah and Rachel.

[Patrick Adams]

This is a controversial question.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Get it, get it.

[Patrick Adams]

Did he do Jenny a solid? Like, what do you think? Can you not be Mike Ross? Tough call.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, as a viewer, in the long run, given that, I think the show clearly is putting these two people together. Yes. Right. Get. Get. Make her prepared for what's about to come. But do I think his intentions are good?

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, no, his intentions are clearly bad.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, he is bad.

[Patrick Adams]

And the ends don't. I don't think ends justify means. Like, I don't live my life that way, but it's interesting, right?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Oh, can we talk? I don't. Maybe we cut this. I don't ever want to be rude. This outfit, that's not great. Right. And this has nothing to do with our friend Vanessa Ray. She looks amazing at anything. It's just. What is this dress? Right. What is it? She's shaking her head. I could see she doesn't want to say anything.

[Patrick Adams]

I think you need to say what you have here. I think you just need to say what you have.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. I'm not going to say that's even worse than what I've written. I think a ball has been dropped as far as this outfit goes, mostly because her outfits and Jenny's just crushing it in this episode. I don't understand where we're going in this outfit. I don't. Like, are we go. I feel like we're going to New Jersey.

[Patrick Adams]

I cannot take the other side of this argument. You watch me sometimes, just for the sake of our podcast, take the other side of the argument. I am not going to do that right now.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, I see what you're saying. You're not going. You are just going to agree with me on this. Yes.

[Patrick Adams]

Just not taking.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a look. We can't win them all. It's a very weird dress, but it's also the pairing with this. This purse. This is the world's largest purse I've ever seen.

[Patrick Adams]

I actually think the purse helped the.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Dress because it hit it.

[Patrick Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you think there's any chance that because this is a scene where we're supposed to make Jenny be not cool and a little like, what. What's going on? And feel a little bit like, I don't maybe don't fit in here. Do you think there's any intentional. Like, not. You would never want anyone to be put in something that's just so wrong. But is there something about its wrongness that could be intentional to tell the story?

[Patrick Adams]

I thought the dress was chosen to make sure that the girl in Pearson Hardman walking into the library looking for you looked like she was a fish out of water.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

And that, I think, was accomplished. But I think what you're saying is we could have done that even with a different dress.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think we could have done it. Yeah.

[Patrick Adams]

But maybe there just wasn't one available.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Or just something more casual. I would have gone a casual route. She doesn't need to be walking around with a fancy dress on. And that purse. What do they call it in succession when he's talking about the bag? A ludicrous. Ludicrously capacious bag.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, yeah. That was so good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Anyway, no need to dwell. No need to dwell.

[Patrick Adams]

Well, it's not a criticism. I just think it's an interesting moment in time, and it highlights some of the challenges that we're up against.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I cannot service your request at this time. Is the note you put in the.

[Patrick Adams]

Notes because you said, tell me I'm wrong.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I cannot service your request at this time. Okay, that is the end of our episode. Honorable mentions. I don't say this often, but I will say it again. It was an episode that I liked watching myself in. I was proud of myself in this episode.

[Patrick Adams]

Yes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Which is even hard to say right now.

[Patrick Adams]

I'm so glad you're saying it, but.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm saying I'm trying to do more of this.

[Patrick Adams]

Good for you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Great episode.

[Patrick Adams]

No notes. No notes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Any objections? I know that absence makes the heart grow fonder, but I miss Donna. I want more Donna. I don't like it when she's not there. I'm happy that maybe you got a bit of a break and that you're with your family, and I imagine you're doing something nice. But the show. We are now at a point where when you're not around, the show doesn't feel 100% the show.

[Patrick Adams]

Oh, that's nice. I didn't notice Donna was missing, and I had to go back and rewind through the thing, like, speed through it to be like, am I in this?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I noticed it, I feel like.

[Patrick Adams]

Thank you. Can't wait to watch next week's episode. Episode.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What do I wait before we get there? God damns. How many you think there were?

[Patrick Adams]

My God, it's like I don't even know this is gonna happen.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Every week it happened and that's why it's so good.

[Patrick Adams]

2. I didn't hear any.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm gonna go with one. Sarah, you didn't hear any.

[Patrick Adams]

It's zero. We've had this conversation. I need to listen to my gut. Listen to that gut.

[Sarah Rafferty]

All right, that's Case closed on Shelf Life. Thank you so much for listening. We're going to see you guys next week.

[Patrick Adams]

Love you, honey.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Bye.

[Patrick Adams]

We love our listeners and we would love to hear from you. If you have any questions for us, email us@ Sidebar podcasteriusxm.com if you send us a question as a voice memo, we may even get to play it on the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And if you can, please make sure to leave a review wherever you listen. It's a great way to support the show. Thank you.

[Patrick Adams]

Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams and SiriusXM Media.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Our senior producer is Kimmy Gregory and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader.

[Patrick Adams]

Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez and our music is by Brendan Burns.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin Anderson.

[Patrick Adams]

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[Patrick Adams]

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