Tricks of the Trade

Summary

Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast – Episode Summary Episode: Tricks of the Trade
Release Date: November 19, 2024
Hosts: Patrick J. Adams (Mike Ross) & Sarah Rafferty (Donna Paulsen)

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1. Introduction

Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty kick off the episode with their trademark banter, reminiscing about their recent trip to New York City and their experiences promoting the podcast. Their chemistry sets an engaging tone as they segue into discussing the Suits episode.

Notable Quote:

• Patrick [02:29]: "I think this is our strongest episode so far of the season."

---

2. Episode Overview: Tricks of the Trade

Tricks of the Trade delves into Harvey Specter's representation of Morello Asset Management against an employee accused of insider trading. The episode also advances Rachel Zane's storyline as Mike assists her in studying for the LSAT, bringing her closer to uncovering Mike's secret.

Key Plot Points:

• Insider Trading Case: Harvey and Mike discover deeper layers behind the initial accusation.
• Rachel's LSAT Preparation: Enhances the relationship dynamics between Rachel and Mike.

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3. Behind the Scenes

a. Writing and Directing

The episode was penned by Rick Moran, a pivotal member of the Suits writing team, who contributed to 14 episodes over seven seasons. Directed by Terry McDonough, known for his dynamic camera work, the episode exhibits a kinetic visual style that elevates the storytelling.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah [05:07]: "And we also learn more about Rachel as Mike helps her study for the LSAT."

b. Character Development

Patrick and Sarah discuss the evolution of Rachel Zane's character, highlighting her vulnerability and depth. They also introduce Max Toplin's character, Harold Gunderson, sharing his real-life audition story that led to his role in the series.

Notable Quote:

• Max Toplin [28:07]: "I didn't get Sweaty Guy, but something magic happened that day."

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4. Memorable Scenes and Performances

a. Visual Language and Camera Work

The hosts praise Terry McDonough's direction, noting the frequent camera movements that add energy to the episode. Patrick remarks on the balance between dynamic visuals and grounded moments, enhancing both tension and comedic elements.

Notable Quote:

• Patrick [22:38]: "The episode feels kinetic. It has momentum, it has energy."

b. Highlighted Performances

• Tracy Thoms as AUSA Becky: Sarah expresses excitement about seeing the talented Tracy in the episode.
• Max Toplin as Harold: His introduction and silent yet impactful performance received accolades from both hosts.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah [10:23]: "Tracy Thoms starred in the movie Rent, and she is just an unbelievable talent."

c. Character Dynamics

Patrick and Sarah explore the interactions between Mike and Rachel, emphasizing how the episode strengthens their on-screen relationship. They also discuss humorous exchanges, such as the "sexy bit" involving Gina Torres, highlighting the show's blend of drama and comedy.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah [33:03]: "Harvey sets up a Jessica Lewis date so brilliantly. And that is the date that I didn't know I needed."

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5. Themes and Character Arcs

The episode illustrates Mike Ross's growth as both a lawyer and an investigator, showcasing his proactive approach in handling cases beyond traditional legal strategies. Rachel's determination and growing independence are also focal points, reinforcing her role as a strong, multifaceted character.

Notable Quote:

• Patrick [26:38]: "Mike getting to be spontaneous and creative in the moment was way more playable and fun."

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6. Personal Insights and Anecdotes

Patrick and Sarah share personal stories related to the episode's content, such as their shared love for Broadway shows and behind-the-scenes moments with the cast and crew. These anecdotes add depth to their analysis and highlight their close-knit relationships within the Suits community.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah [03:27]: "I want to become that person who can name trees. I want to become, like, a hobbyist arborist."

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7. Conclusion

Patrick and Sarah conclude the episode by reflecting on the strengths of Tricks of the Trade, praising the writing, directing, and performances that make it a standout installment in the first season. They express their enthusiasm for future episodes and invite listeners to continue following their rewatch journey.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah [62:18]: "Case closed. That's a wrap on Tricks of the Trade. We are officially halfway through the first season."

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8. Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Patrick [02:29]: "I think this is our strongest episode so far of the season."
• Sarah [05:07]: "And we also learn more about Rachel as Mike helps her study for the LSAT."
• Max Toplin [28:07]: "I didn't get Sweaty Guy, but something magic happened that day."
• Patrick [22:38]: "The episode feels kinetic. It has momentum, it has energy."
• Sarah [10:23]: "Tracy Thoms starred in the movie Rent, and she is just an unbelievable talent."
• Sarah [33:03]: "Harvey sets up a Jessica Lewis date so brilliantly. And that is the date that I didn't know I needed."
• Patrick [26:38]: "Mike getting to be spontaneous and creative in the moment was way more playable and fun."
• Sarah [03:27]: "I want to become that person who can name trees. I want to become, like, a hobbyist arborist."
• Sarah [62:18]: "Case closed. That's a wrap on Tricks of the Trade. We are officially halfway through the first season."

---

9. Key Takeaways

• Character Growth: Significant development in Mike Ross and Rachel Zane's stories.
• Behind-the-Scenes Excellence: Stellar writing and dynamic directing enhance the episode's impact.
• Engaging Performances: Introductions of memorable characters like Harold Gunderson add depth to the narrative.
• Visual Storytelling: Terry McDonough's camera work brings energy and momentum to the episode.

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10. Final Thoughts

Tricks of the Trade showcases the early potential of Suits, blending sharp legal drama with character-driven narratives and moments of levity. Patrick and Sarah's insightful analysis and personal anecdotes provide a rich, engaging recap that will resonate with both long-time fans and newcomers alike.

Closing Quote:

• Patrick [62:23]: "Case closed. That's a wrap on Tricks of the Trade."

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**Stay tuned for more detailed recaps and behind-the-scenes stories as Patrick and Sarah continue their journey through the Suits series on Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast.

Transcript

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[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

Rolling, rolling, rolling. Keep that podcast hi, I'm Patrick Adams. You may know me as Mike Ross on the show Suits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I'm Sarah Rafferty. And you may know me as Donna Paulson on Suits.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And this is Sidebar A Suits Rewatch podcast. Or actually a Suits Watch podcast, because Sarah and I have never actually watched the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Hi, Patrick.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Hi.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Hi, hi, Hi.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's been one whole day since I've seen you, and it just feels wrong.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yesterday was hard for me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, listener we just got back from New York City, the Big Apple, where we we had a really good day. We got to promote this adventure of a podcast. What did we do? Do you want to tell everybody what we did? I don't even remember anymore.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, let's talk about. We went to a play. We saw a play together.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I saw two plays. We saw one together called Stereophonic, which was incredible. It was great. And then we did the Today show. We did some New York live. We talked to Dallas. Dallas. We talked to Boston. We did a whole bunch of press, and it was terrific. We were. I think we make a great team. Yeah, I think we make a good team. We should start a podcast. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was a great trip. We had a lot of fun.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It was so great to be in New York on the east coast in autumn. I went to visit my parents on the Metro north train, and the trees going by were glorious. I picked up a bunch of leaves to share with my dad when I got there, and I had decided a couple of weeks ago, I was up in the Santa Barbara area with my kids, and I was like, girls, you know what I want to become? I want to become that person who can name trees. I want to become, like, a hobbyist. Arborist.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Arborist. Yep.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And then I get there, and I'm visiting with my mom, and she's like, let me take you out on the deck and I'll show you. That's a sycamore. That's a maple. That's a beach. And she did it. And I was like, mom, I want to be you. You have to teach me all these cool things.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I could not pick any of those trees out of a lineup. I'm the same. I can't. If you put a picture of a sycamore in a beach in front of me, I'd be useless.

[Sarah Rafferty]

They are majestic creatures. So what if you and I get a book and then we just have some flashcards and every now and again learn a tree.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Join us next week on our new podcast, Hobbyist Arborist.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Hobbyist, Arborist, Horticulturist, who's a conservativist.

[Patrick J. Adams]

All right, do you want to get into the brief here?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let's go in. Should we get into the brief, Patrick?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Let's do it. All right, today we're breaking down season one, episode six, Tricks of the Trade. This episode was written by Rick Moran, who was a very important member of our writing staff for the entire show, and directed by Terry McDonough. It originally aired on Thursday, July 21, 2011.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And in this episode, Harvey and Mike represent a hedge fund, Morello Asset Management, with an employee accused of insider trading. Quickly, they find that there's more to the story than meets the eye. And we also learn more about Rachel as Mike helps her study for the lsat. In this process, Rachel gets closer to Mike's secret.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Let's get some facts from our firm's best researcher, Kristen. Shoot dates, May 26 to June 2, 2011. This actually wasn't the original title of the episode. The original title was Trade Secrets.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, I like Tricks of the trade.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think it's better.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's got, like, more action.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Alliterative.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, there you go with your fancy words. And then most importantly, because you heard me clapping when you were reading.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Let's talk Rick Moragi for a second. Yes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, please.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He worked on suits from seasons one to seven. He wrote 14 episodes of the show. He started as an executive story editor in season one. He worked his way up to executive producer in season six and seven.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't like to pick favorites. I don't, but.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, he was just there.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm gonna have to.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And, you know, Rick, pick a favorite. Maybe we'll talk about this a bit later. But Rick is also, you know, Rick and Aaron have written a lot together now. They've developed a couple of shows. Aaron's helping him develop another show, I think, at the moment, and Rick is now working on Suits la. So, you know, I think we'll get into this as we get into the episode. It's a lot of what I want to talk about, but I think he was a very clearly a very important piece of the tapestry that was Suits.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I will say that as we move through the seasons, Rick was responsible for some of my favorite Donna lines, some of the ones that I think became memes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So I think he's responsible for, you know, we talk a lot about things that slot in and become a part of, like, the show and, like, start things that continue on. I think there's a reason he was on the show for seven seasons, because he did so much not just for Donna. I think every character, you know, benefited. The whole show benefited from his insight.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And also, I will say this about all the writers. We were still in the days where the writers came to set, when it was their episode, they flew up to Toronto and they were there with us for the entire time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Did that stop?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's kind of stopped in the business. That was one of the things about the writers strike. But having them there and getting that time together is just so great.

[Patrick J. Adams]

All right, that's it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you have any opening statements? I mean, I'm going to start right where I started yesterday. So we were flying back on the plane from New York, watching this episode at the same time on our iPads. I had to help you figure out how to use your iPad, of course. And so we were, like, watching it real time together, I think I turned to you, I slammed my laptop shut. Maybe I'd had too much coffee, but I turned and I said, best episode of the season. And I say that knowing that I think the pilot is always, you know, forever the best and in some ways the most special. But so far, you know, all in all, the pieces of the puzzle, I think this is one of our strongest. I think this is our strongest episode so far of the season.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How did I look at you when you did that?

[Patrick J. Adams]

You went, huh?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wow. Did I really?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, you were only. We weren't watching it at the exact same time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, it was only like three.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You were only like one act in. By the time I was done, so you had just sort of started. So. And I. I think I understand why, because it started a little slow for me too. But by the end, and as we go through, I think I'll try and justify this or explain my position on it, but I definitely felt like this was a big moment for the show. It took a huge step forward, visually. It took a huge step forward. Writing wise, I think all of us were sort of finding our gears, and I think it was the perfect balance of funny and dramatic tension. And we'll get into all of it. But anyway, big, big fan of this episode, and I think something sort of special happened here for the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so you said that to me, and I was like, can you give it to me again? What did I do?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Huh?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. And then. And then I took a nap.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You said, I want to fall asleep.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, so then I realized, because you said that, I realized, I need a nap. I need a snack. I needed to watch one episode of Otto Lengi making a shakshuka.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And then I made up all those words.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, I did not.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I know. What is it? What was it?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Jotam Ottolenghi.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Jotam. Okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, yeah, He's a chef.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yep.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He made a shakshuka for me on the plane.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I know what that is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I love that. And. And then I went back in. And what? I did something differently, which is I just watched it. I wasn't taking notes. I wasn't stopping it. I just enjoyed it. While we were on the plane, anytime anybody walked by to go to the bathroom or the. The flight attendants came by, I did stop it and hide it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, because you were embarrassed to be watching your own show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But with the exception of those breaks, I watched it. And I heartily agree with you. And that just goes to show that you're a genius or that I am so suggestible that you should never introduce me to a cult leader. But I'm very excited to get to the first act. We're going to work our way through. But I really want to talk to you about the visual language that you've been talking about in the previous episodes. I want to talk about it because I really noticed it now, and either I'm primed to see it because I've been watching it, or there's something special about this episode, and I think it's the latter. I also was thrilled, thrilled to finally have these deep dives into Rachel's character. I am loving where we are going with her, and I am really loving where this particular episode is taking Mike's character. And I'm on the journey with Mike through Mike's eyes, and I'm loving that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I agree with all of this.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We should get into it. Should we?

[Patrick J. Adams]

All right, let's dive in. Well, obviously, we start with the teaser. And the episode opens at the Department of Justice, where Harvey is meeting with AUSA Becky, played by the incredible Tracy Toms.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, stop.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, I cannot.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You can't go further. We have to stop here. One second into the episode, we need to stop because Tracy Thoms is on our screen.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Is this. Are you going Rent right now?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm going fangirl Rent. I can't. So listener Tracy Toms starred in the movie Rent, and she is just an unbelievable talent. And, you know, I have a talent crush on her, of course. Who doesn't? And it just was very exciting to see her pop up in an episode of Suits. I saw Rent on Broadway with my entire family. So we had. My mom had this family tradition since we were little, where we would go into New York to see a big show once a year. And I actually think that was really defining for me in who I became. And I'm so incredibly grateful to her for that, because that is a stretch. That's a hard thing to bring for your family. And it was the first time. This particular play. It was the first time that I really felt the generational divide between myself and my parents.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I had the same thing when I went to. I took my mom to Rent. I was. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I was sleeping on the. In Toronto, you could sleep on the street to get tickets. Oh, and you did that. So I slept, like, five times, embarrassingly, I'll admit. I was, like, sleeping on the street. It was like a whole thing that all of the theater kids at my high school were doing. We'd, like, go sleep. And we knew the cast and stuff. But anyway, I took. I did that a bunch and fell in love with it. And then I was like, mom, you gotta come see this. You're not gonna believe it. And sat there with my mom and my sister just being like, here you go. I'm about to blow your mind. And my mom was like, what on earth?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Is this. Translate.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I have to ask you this.

[Patrick J. Adams]

This is hard. No go.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, it's hard.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a safe space, okay? We're in the nest of trust.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. Here. Here's my super top secret, not so secret nerd thing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What?

[Sarah Rafferty]

And maybe this is a guilty pleasure. Do we talk? We talk about guilty pleasures. I listen sometimes to Broadway music when I'm working out.

[Patrick J. Adams]

When you're working out, like, to get pumped up. Yep. Like, what's your go to?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, something from Rent. Like, anything from. From Hamilton. Like, are you gonna ask me which song? Sometimes if I have to sprint, I don't know. It doesn't even matter. The pace of song. Like, I'll cover you. Yeah, okay.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been a long time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Seasons of Love.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I feel like I put it all in the past and I gotta act.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you ever listen to Broadway music?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Never.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's my question.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Zero.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Would you admit it if you did?

[Patrick J. Adams]

No judgment. No judgment. Here's the deal. If you put on the Rent soundtrack now, I would know every word of it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I would still. It would still be there. So it's logged.

[Sarah Rafferty]

If we could go to Hollywood bowl and there was a live rent thing, would you take me?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I would dress up as Roger and we would do it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thank you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We would go.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thank you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Just for you. I mean.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, it's just the two of us in the Hollywood bowl with the original cast, so.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Good. Sarah, I need you to know that there's a Peloton Rent class. What? What? What? I am not alone.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, you found me. My people.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There are all sorts, all sorts of peloton Broadway classes. You gotta. You gotta get on there.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe I need a peloton. Do I need. I.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That might be the whitest thing I've ever heard. Rent peloton class. Sometimes it's up there with the word regatta. So let's. We've got. We've gotten one step into the teaser.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let's, let's. Let's move along.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Anyway, so while talking to Harvey at Pearson Hardman, Mike sees an old client. He helped cheat the lsat. She's walking down the hall with Rachel.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. I loved this walk and talk. This is a standard. Some practices, right?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I saw you made a note about that. And I wanted to, like, almost go back and be like, where did the walk and talk really get invented in this show. Like, is it. Is there more of it happening right now, or has it been happening the whole time and I hadn't really noticed it? Either way, it is a key part of. I mean, like, it's a key part of suits. It's a key part of almost every television show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But we have West Wing being a really good example of that, I think. But this one, I was just wondering if we could play a little piece of it, because I really love how Mike is freaking out and Harvey is cool as a cucumber, obviously setting that up. But there's this, like, Yelp, this sound, this mic groan.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I made a yelp.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Does anybody want to play that for our friend Patrick J. Adams and see if he can reproduce it?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Play me my Yelp. How did it go with the Department of Justice?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Follow me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You'll find out. I get to sit in with your head down, your mouth shut. This isn't a usual.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I thought you were going to vomit anyway.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yep. Okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That was a pretty add into the.

[Patrick J. Adams]

List of strange Mike Ross sounds.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know. I feel like we can make an entire playlist of those.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Anyway, Harvey and Mike are in the conference room, where we're introduced to the case of the week. A young woman is accused of insider trading at a Wall street firm that Harvey represents. But guess what? Things are not as they seem. We've got some great actors right off the bat. Gabby Stone is played by Jenny Mollen, who I used to work out at the same gym. And she's wonderful. I just want to say she's wonderful.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is, I think, maybe why. I think I had gotten to this scene when you said the thing to me on the plane, and I was like, hmm, Right. Okay, do over. So let me ask you, as a viewer, are you immediately, like, uh, of all the people in this room that I suspect of being the, quote, unquote, responsible party, it's not Gabby Stone. And I'm just wondering, am I, like, ahead of Harvey here? I mean, if you look at it. Look, sidebar. There's a guy wearing a bow tie.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, the bow tie.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The bow tie.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's always a guy with a bow tie.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Our listeners know that Donna takes issue with bow ties, and now I take issue.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Spoiling something for me. What are you spoiling something for me?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, in a future podcast, I need.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You to stay in the present with me, because I don't know what happens in the future.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Principle of.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Has she said it yet in the show?

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, but she's going to.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's But I'm. That's called a spoiler. Okay, you're spoiling it for me. I haven't seen this show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, I gotta go. You gotta go.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Either way, we're on the same page.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a bias. It's a bias that Donna has that I share with her.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You see somebody with a bow tie, something's wrong.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yep. And that's why the first thing that I had when I saw that room set up, and I joke about the bow ties, but I was like, if anybody's guilty in that room, it's not her.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, pretty obviously.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

This is not the person. Right, Right. Which. How does that make you feel about Harvey?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, I feel like I'm ahead of Harvey. You know, it's something I asked Santu about. I made him watch the scene because, as you know, Santos works in finance. And I was like, so what are you seeing set up here? There's no way that this. We don't know yet that she's a trader. I was like, she looks like an analyst. Right. She's not.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What does an analyst look like?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Analyst is somebody who analyzes the stocks like it's a younger person. It's not a portfolio manager. Right. Like, you kind of go up. You know, it's like the. In. It's not an intern, but it's like the. The newer person at the firm. Then you work your way up to be a portfolio manager, then you run the whole place.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You know the way that you feel when I talk about, like, I. Yeah, I just. My brain goes, okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But when Santu talks about it, I gotta say, I kind of like it. My brain kind of goes like, I'm.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Into it when someone's excited about things, but, like, I just don't understand. It's like someone's trying to explain to me how to build a refrigerator. I'm just like, okay, okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But you come over. You'll talk to Sanju about it. He's so, so lovely and not a better person. Charming and compelling.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But your point being is you can tell this is not the per. This is not the droid you're looking for. This person is not. We know that Mike is onto something.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right off the bat. Onto something, because he has a spidey sense. So I'm excited to go with Mike on this journey. I think it's interesting that I don't agree with Harvey's point of view right out of the gate and that the show is willing to have our hero be that guy for us.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Sorry. Let's go back you just said. Say that again about it's happy to make our hero. What did you say about Gabriel?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Are you the hero?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, I'm just saying Mike's the hero. Did you, like, there's only one hero of the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're my hero.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's interesting. I'm just going to write that down. So Sarah only thinks there's one hero to the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so after the meeting.

[Patrick J. Adams]

After the meeting, Mike's supposed to be watching Gabby, A flight risk, but then he gets distracted chatting with Rachel. And I'm really happy to see Rachel back.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You know, and. And I think we're going to get into it, but I just. I. It's. It's. Right off the bat, it's like Rachel has been sort of not condemned is the wrong word, but she's been the beautiful, really smart person that Mike's sort of scared of and just always sort of walking on glass around. And right off the bat, we're into, like, something that makes her very vulnerable and something she's not confident about. And I think it kind of, again, unlocked something in this character and between these two people. And right off the bat with the scene, we're like, oh, okay, she's not invincible.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think she stepped away from being a functional character, a character that's supposed to illuminate something in Mike, and she is her own. And now we're excited, and it's in the hands of Rick Maraghi. So it's gonna be very exciting.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So I'm in hundy percent. And then while Mike is outside the room with Rachel, Gabby disappears. Oh, my goodness. So, like I said, this is the end of the teaser, and I just think, masterful work. The table set. We're ready to get into the rest of the episode. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sarah, you know, we're going into the holidays, and there's no more important time to talk about gratitude.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Look, I was so grateful last week when I was struggling with being away. We were both away on set, and we had a nice phone call, and. And you helped me get reconnected with my gratitude.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. I think it's so important in my life to practice gratitude as much as possible, because sometimes life can get pretty heavy, and it's the quickest way out of that slump. That's why we're so happy that the show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, this month is all about gratitude. And, you know, what I want to say to you, Sarah, is thank you. It's been such a pleasure getting to do this with you. And I know we've talked a lot about mental health, but it's really helpful with us both away shooting away from our families to have someone to talk to through it. So I want to say thank you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, thank you, Patrick. I'm so grateful for you too, as you know.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But there is one other person that we don't thank enough and that is ourselves. Sometimes it's hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense out of everything. And in this crazy world, well, that's just not that easy. So here's a reminder to all of you to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, please give better help a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.comsidebarshow today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H E L P.com Sidebarshow.

[Indiana Jones Narrator]

Uncover one of history's greatest mysteries in Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, a first person single player adventure video game set between the events of Raiders of the Lost Ark and the Last Crusade. The year is 1937. Sinister forces are scouring the globe for the secret to an ancient power connected to the Great Circle, and only one person can stop them. Indiana Jones Adventure calls Indiana Jones and the Great Circle releases on December 9th on Xbox Series X&S Game Pass and PC Pre Order Indiana Jones and the Great circle now. Rated T14. Copyright and trademark 2024 Lucasfilm Ltd. All rights reserved.

[Nordstrom Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. It's a season of wonder all the way. At Nordstrom, you'll find the best gifts for everyone you love, including tons of ideas under 100 and gift experts to help wondering what to wear. They have everything from cozy styles to party perfect looks along with freestyle help from their stylist. Plus they'll help make your shopping easy with services like in store order, pickup, gift wrap options, free shipping and returns and more. Discover the wonder of the holidays today in stores [e-mail].

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, and we're back. We're talking about act one. Sarah, you had some. You had a lot of notes here. What's going on for you now?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I have a lot that I need to talk to you about. So this whole act I really started to notice that the camera is rarely still, like, at any time. And like you asked before, like, have we been doing that all along? Am I just primed to start seeing that in the show because we've been watching it for five episodes, or is there something being done differently here? So I want to ask you, since you've been both in front of and behind the camera, can you explain some of this technically to me? Because I am seeing not just the Steadicam, I'm seeing a lot more of the camera being on a track. I'm seeing all of that. Can you talk to me with the director hat on?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Hold on. Let me get my director hat. Where is it? Oh, gosh, I lost that. Oh, God. I'm just going to have to pretend. I think it is 100% the director. And I've tried to, as I'm watching this episode, go back. Terry McDonough, who directed this episode, is a very, very, very good director and what I was experiencing, and I think he likes to move the camera a lot. Now, that being said, he's not the DP of the show, but because you're right, you've totally picked up on the same thing. The camera's moving so much, even in scenes where we're just on a phone call between two people and in between, and you're, like, dollying and coming across the desk sometimes. I've talked to directors before where they don't like doing that because they think you're just manufacturing tension in a show. Like, if a scene's not that exciting, you just move a camera and it makes it feel more exciting rather than doing it in performance. I think it's a balance, right? You can totally use cameras to make something interesting without doing the work of making the performance interesting. But you can also make a performance interesting and then highlight it with a moving camera, which is what I think Terry McDonough did in this whole episode. He loves to move the camera. The episode feels kinetic. It has momentum, it has energy. One scene flies into the next. And then when this. When the episode needs to be still to, like, ground something, he does that, too. And that's when you know you're working with somebody who's sort of orchestrating, you know, a symphony in a. In a. In a way. And I was so curious watching it because I was so struck by the direction. But I was like, why? Terry only directed two episodes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Why?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I texted Aaron and I said, sometimes directors don't get along with showrunners. I was like, what happened? Did you and Terry not like each other? Why did Terry. Only because I'm watching this episode and it's so well directed. And Aaron just said he was too busy, we couldn't get him, and that was it. And then you look at Terry's IMDb and it's just an endless, endless. He never stops working.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Would you shadow him if you could?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, 100%. And he was such a. He's just such a fun energy. I'll have a couple of stories later when we get to the moments. But he was just so funny. He was so wry. He's British. You know, Brits can have the best sense of humors in the world. He didn't take it too seriously. He had a really clear idea. He was playful. It was just a really, really good energy. And I think he had just come off Breaking Bad before he came onto our show. So we were all like, oh, my God, a director from Breaking Bad's here. He just was super confident and he kind of knew exactly what the story needed. So that's been my experience of watching it. And I think right from the beginning, you can feel that we are in a very confident hand.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And it's funny you say that thing because right away we have. Harvey finds out that Gabby is missing and he has to tell Becky from the doj. And even that scene, like, Gabriel's throwing a ball up and down, then he's like throwing it, you know, movement under the table and they move the camera so you can see that he's playing with it, you know, it's really great.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Then Gabby leaves her phone. We find out that Gabby's left her phone behind. Mike is able to find her friend Bradley at a sports club based on a text and talks him into revealing her location. So this is a great. This is probably my award for best Needle drop. Holding on to Black Metal by My Morning Jacket, one of my favorite bands. And I love this sequence just from a character point of view. And I think I. This is why I remember this episode so fondly, is just. Mike is on, like, a journey that we're starting right here, where it's almost like he's as much of an investigator as a lawyer in this. And he's also like, he's come. He's figuring out what to do. It's not like Harvey's like, why don't you do this and then fill out this form and why don't you know anything? Mike's like, I'm going to go handle it. And when he walks into this space, he's still a bit out of his element. And he doesn't quite know how to handle it. And do I pretend to be from the. Like, that great moment where he gets called out. Are you from the Department of Justice? You know, he doesn't quite know how to be, but he's also just owning it. He's like, let's. He's leaning into it. So there's like, a more confident version of Mike in this episode that I'm experiencing watching it, and it takes me back to shooting it and remember, like, I remember, like, I love doing this. Like, this is what I want for this guy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, Mike had an opportunity here to start to try on being a chameleon.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And then we get into it more later. And that must have been so fulfilling.

[Patrick J. Adams]

To play that piece because his superpower before is this thing where he has a photographic memory and he's seeing things and he remembers things, but that's not particularly interesting to watch or play. You know, like, I can remember things. It doesn't get much more fun to play than that scene from the pilot where I can regurgitate and make an impression. After that, you can't. It's hard to find new ways to play that. And I think the show was struggling to write new ways to keep that interesting. You know, like, it wasn't. There's only so many montages of fading to black and white to show you what Mike remembers from three scenes ago. That's, like, not that great. But Mike getting to, like, be spontaneous and creative in the moment and utilize the things he remembers in order to do something now was way more playable and way more fun. So anyway, we open up in the bullpen where a group of associates are giving Mike a hard time about losing Gabby. And Lewis intervenes. Major scene. Who do we meet? For the first time, we get to meet Harold. Oh, boy. Finally, this might be a good place. Harold's played by the one and only Max Toplin. Of course. Spoiler alert. He remains an important part of the show in the years to come. And this is the first moment we are meeting him. I got to reach out to Max yesterday and asked him to send a short message about how it is he ended up standing out in this episode. And he gets a couple of lines here in a second. So let's hear from Max.

[Max Toplin]

Hey, Sarah. Hey, Patrick. Congrats on sidebar. This is friggin cool. You too. Hey, it's Max Toplin. Harold Gunderson. I am here to tell you how it all came about 2011. I'm a struggling actor in LA I'm Hungry. I am poor. It's not going great. My manager calls me in and says that I'm actually not a very good actor and my weight fluctuations are not working with his roster. So he drops me. I am morbidly depressed. I call my Canadian agent and say, listen, I need to pay rent. I am, like, screwed. I have no money. Get me a job. And my agent said, fly home. So I did. I flew back to Toronto. So I get home, my agent calls me, says, hey, there's this great audition for an American series called the Legal Mind. And I say, wait, that's great. An American series called the Legal Mind.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love it.

[Max Toplin]

Let's do it. What's the role? Sweaty Guy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Sweaty Guy.

[Max Toplin]

I've been doing this my entire life, but I'll try to do Sweaty Guy. So I go in for Sweaty Guy, and I do not get it. So I'm pissed. I'm frustrated. My agent calls me and says, you didn't get that, but you did get something else. And I say, what is it like? Well, it's a silent on camera roll, no lines. I show up and I meet Rick Hoffman, who is a lovely, lovely guy and very intense and a wonderful actor. And, you know, we start rehearsing the scene, we go over, do our blocking, and we start shooting. And Rick is berating me in this scene so incredibly hard. The director calls cut comes over, says, you know, Max, great. Goes over and gives Rick notes. Rick turns to me and says, why aren't you saying anything? And like, what are you talking about?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Why?

[Max Toplin]

I'm. I'm hired as a silent on camera. I'm not an actor here. I'm an extra. And he says, no, that's not why you're here. You better effing respond to me. And I was nervous. I look over, you know, I'm 18. I think I'm 18 years old. I look over at Video Village and I see the producers and the director, and everyone's looking at me, you know, happy, but do not speak. You are not paid to speak. So then we started improving on the next take, and something magic happened there. And I get a call from my agent. My agent says, they want to write for you. They loved what you and Rick created yesterday, and they want to write for you. So, I mean, it was. It was a shocking experience, you know, And I think it really taught me maybe there was a reason I didn't get Sweaty Guy and I got a non speaking Harold instead. That turned into Harold Gunderson. And I think 17, 18 episodes in the end. So it was an amazing experience. That all just came from Rick truthfully pushing me when I was down. And thank you so much forever for that, Rick. I will never not be grateful to Rick Hoffman for that. So, anyway, hope you guys are well and congrats on the show. So excited about you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's unbelievable.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So good, right? Max is truly one of the best, and we will for sure have him on the show more full time. But I wanted to make sure he got his story in there when, you know, now that we've met him. Rick Hoffman, a saint.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I could totally imagine that, too. Him just pushing through any, you know, rules and regulations and just being like, no, no, no. He speaks. And it's great because you can change a person's life doing that. Yes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And because Rick knows what works. Like, we're finding that out when we see him. I mean, even the moment when he comes over to you and he simply says the word shenanigans with a little bit of special sauce.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, perfect. What's going on? Some sort of shenanigans.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And he's like, again, he's opened his channel to be, you know, Alan Rickman. I think it's just a brilliant moment. So then that takes us into the scene where Lewis scolds Harold for not being available on the phone and looks down to find King Lear tickets from Jessica on his desk.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, this is the Rick Hoffman should have won an Emmy award moment of the week. This simple, straight, beautiful line. Okay, thanks. You can leave my office, please.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Can we make that a thing?

[Patrick J. Adams]

So good. The Rick Hoffman should have won an Emmy Award. There'll be multiple ones of those a week. But it's so good. Just listen to the switch. You will pick up your phone. Absolutely. Okay, thanks. Can you leave my office, please? Like, that's master work. My God. Just switches instantly. He becomes a child. He becomes a small baby with a new toy. I love it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But even having the chance to see Max's body language in that scene where he basically has no lines like that really is proof positive that there are no small parts.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He makes it great. And it's obvious why they wanted to write for him. So then we're in Jessica's office. Lewis thanks Jessica for the tickets and makes plans for the two of them to attend together.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, let's talk about this exchange.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, go for it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I really want to hear from you about this because this. Not only did this make me laugh out loud, but again, visually lining them up so that you can see Harvey's point of view when he's the kid in the middle between Jessica and Lewis.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And that Harvey sets up a Jessica Lewis date so brilliantly. And that is the date that I didn't know I needed.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So tell me about the King Lear date.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. That we see at the end of the episode. And I'm just going to spend the whole time like waiting, hoping I'm going to see that. But the way that this is lined up with the cameras, it's brilliant. Tell me more.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you know what frustrates me?

[Sarah Rafferty]

What?

[Patrick J. Adams]

You think it's you. I know as soon as I said that I was like, she's going to think it's her. We had a joke earlier in the earliest pods. What is it? A lot Lazi. Is that a lazi? What is the definition of a lazy. Oh, come on.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're disgusted with me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's important to the conversation.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Lazi is like a comedic bit.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Ok.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's from Comedia dialogue.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What frustrates me so much is because I made so much fun of you for using that word and knowing it and what the point I'm about to make and what I think you're saying is that's actually what is making this show brilliant is like this scene is one of those. And it's like last week in the middle of a dramatic tension, we had that great scene with you where all of a sudden the plot didn't matter and we just had a comedic moment. A lazy. Maybe that's the same thing here. And it's what I think I'm learning is makes. And it's not the first show to do it, but we do it really well. This show is brilliant at suddenly going like, hey, don't worry about the plot for a second, don't worry about the story, don't worry about the case, don't worry about any of it. We're just going to put these people into a funny situation and it's going to be silly for a second and we're gonna do it really, really well because Aaron of course cut his teeth as a sitcom writer, as he told us. So like that's how he came up. And that's probably, you know, clearly one of his strong suits. And I think sometimes if you're creating an hour long show, maybe comedy, like you're not supposed to stop the show for a funny bit, maybe a joke or a punchline, but not a whole scene. And yet our show is finding that you can and should. And now all of a sudden we're in this Silly exchange about King Lear tickets and Yankee, you know, Nachos. Yeah, nachos and Yankee. You know what I mean? It has nothing to do with anything. Suddenly, the show is owning that part of it and getting better at it. And I think this is the episode where it happens. That's it. This has been my TED Talk.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, thank you for being so gracious with me about my nerd tasticness.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. It frustrates me to no end because all I want to do is make fun of you for lotsies. And now it turns out to be a pivotal part of this show. Anyway, okay, so then we're in Rachel's office. Mike's trying to convince her to try the LSAT again.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so, Patrick, I love this scene. This is just like, boom, we have Rachel. This is the scene where we absolutely see Rachel's character take flight. And you and Megan are great in this. And I feel like Rick Moraghi's writing really teed up Megan in this episode in such a beautiful way. You guys are very, very, very charming. And I know I've said that I don't do teams, but I am really just, you know, I'm human.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. I'm rooting for these two crazy kids.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I can only focus on the most recent thing in front of, you know, Jenny, who. Yeah, that's amazing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm sure she's gonna come back.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know. And she's fantastic. But I'm just. I'm in. I'm on board. You guys are so great together. You're an amazing team.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well. And again, it's watching, like, Mike look after Rachel. Like, how can I help you? He wants to help her, and he doesn't want to help her by cheating. Like, that's about to come up. That. That's a part of his life. And, you know, obviously, we know it's a part of his life, but it's not what he's trying to do. He's trying to, like, get her there and help her to figure out that, like, she doesn't need to be so hard on herself. And she's totally capable of doing this.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And she's everything in this scene. She's vulnerable. She needs something. She's hilarious. She says, I can do math. Good Will Hunting.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know, she's. She's all the things she's not Just a pretty face.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a huge step forward for the character. And she's so good in it. Okay. Mike and Harvey are going back to Morello acid management. Harvey clashes with Sam, played by J.R. bourne. Grace Tufty, when he is less than forthcoming in their investigation.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, quick fact.

[Patrick J. Adams]

J.R. bourne's going to be coming back a little later, but maybe that's a spoiler alert.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, that's great, because I do want more of him and more of his character, and I just want to say that he also says the word py, and I think we can line up a bit of a P counter and.

[Patrick J. Adams]

P. Sorry, I didn't hear you. What was it he called? Harvey? I'm not coming through. Can you guys turn me up? Because I didn't hear it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But I do. When we get to the end, I do want to talk about that word because I think it's a really interesting usage of that word. And I'm just going to mark it and move on.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The pause there was my favorite. We were both like, yeah, I can't wait to hear where we're going with this. Harvey and Mike have a hot dog stand combo impression off.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Listen, friends, can we just listen to this just for my pleasure?

[Patrick J. Adams]

That was amazing. He was like. He was Mr. T and you were Rocky, but, like, not Rocky at the beginning when he's all scared of Mr. T. But at the end when he's all like, ooh, give it your best shot. You know, Adrian, you gotta work on your Stallone. You need a lower reg. Stallone. Ooh, that was an incredible Stallone. I've been doing that since I was a kid. You can't touch it without the food in your mouth. No, I swallowed it. There's food in your mouth, Adrian. Love it. Love it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Gabriel is really good at that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's so good. You get a lower register. That is, if you look at the script, all added. That was not in the script and not added by us. I think I remember Aaron being on set and we were, like, figuring it out together. It wasn't us. It wasn't. We can't take credit for it. It was us all sort of trying to find that thing that was like, this is a good scene. It's funny. What's the thing at the end? We could have more fun. We can. Like, this is like, again, us finding. This is an opportunity for us to be silly. How can we be maximum silly? But still in the world of the show. Yeah. So I remember that. I remember Aaron being there for that. Anyway, I think it's time for us to take a bit of a break. Why don't you stay tuned for some more fun with Mike and Rachel and also that Jessica Lewis date. We were Talking about.

[Indiana Jones Narrator]

Uncover one of history's greatest mysteries in Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, a first person single player adventure video game set between the events of Raiders of the Lost Ark and the Last Crusade. The year is 1937. Sinister forces are scouring the globe for the secret to an ancient power connected to the Great Circle. And only one person can stop the Indiana Jones adventure calls. Indiana Jones and the Great Circle releases on December 9th on Xbox Series X&S Game Pass and PC. Pre order. Indiana Jones and the Great circle now. Rated T14. Copyright and trademark 2024 Lucasfilm Ltd. All rights reserved.

[Nordstrom Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. It's a season of wonder all the way. At Nordstrom, you'll find the best gifts for everyone you love. Plus party ready looks for every occasion. It's easy with free shipping and returns in store order pickup and more. Shop today in stores [e-mail].

[Patrick J. Adams]

All right, you ready to continue?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Just look me in the eye. Are we good?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm super mad at you. I'm so mad at you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Can I talk to you for a second outside the P. In the corner.

[Sarah Rafferty]

In the corner.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Harvey visits Jessica's office to give her a hard time about King Lear with Lewis. She gives it right back to him.

[Sarah Rafferty]

There's.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There's a scene where Gina's wearing a white dress. That made me feel a sexy bit. Feel she's a dear friend. But that dress was every. I don't know that I could forget it. It's like the hottest dress in the world.

[Sarah Rafferty]

All I have to say about this moment is that Gina is my sexy bet. She's all the things in this scene. She is smart, she is funny, she is gorgeous. That just comes along with it. But she's one step ahead of Harvey.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Can we talk about one thing to do with sexy bits And Gina too.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We can talk about all the things.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Remember when we were just in New York seeing our billboard for sidebar podcasts, and we were like, look at us. Look how we're on the big. We're big guys now. Look at us. And then all of a sudden, Gina was right there. I think bigger than our billboard.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It was right before she was there.

[Patrick J. Adams]

First for 911 Lone Star, looking incredible. And she's such a badass. And we love her.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I sent that picture to her.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No good. Anyway, she's our. Gina's our sexy bit. I don't know what that means. I'm sure I'm going to get canceled for having repeated it but look, okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let'S define it for a second because in the spirit that it is meant, as we are all happily married and respect everybody's marriages, we're just talking about, like, somebody having that energy that draws you in and makes you feel something. And I'm kind of kidding when I call it a sexy bit, but it does. It sort of. Look, I'm going to regret saying this. It's like a turn on. You're just like, oh, hi. Hi. Hi. Jessica. Being all the glorious Jessicanness. And that's what I experienced. It's a blip on the screen. But Gina Torres is magical and you get a second to bask in it. But it's more about just an essence. It's more about an energy and a magic that you bring. It's charisma.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think it's great. I think you bring up a good point. I think maybe I want to find a different term.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, we must.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, no, no. Not because there's anything wrong with sexy bit. But I'm now I'm trying to think in legal puns, because everything we're doing on this show is legal puns. So I'm trying to figure out what.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, do we offer it to our listener?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, we need to name the. Like. When somebody's got. I think what the kids call it is Riz.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's Riz.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Is this what the kids call the Riz?

[Sarah Rafferty]

We. Your kids will. Your kids will kill you, though, for using.

[Patrick J. Adams]

My kids use words like that, it'll be a new word.

[Sarah Rafferty]

My daughter, I tried it and she was just like, mom. No.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right. So we need the R term for our podcast. When someone's just in the element, when they're in their pocket.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe it's a Gina Torres Award.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The Gina Torres. That's funny.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe it's Torres Award.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The Gina Torres Riz Award. Good, we'll work on it. Coming up here, too is maybe a statue of limitations for me in the episode. Again, I wanna be careful with these because, you know, it's funny and it is what it is. But there's a moment where we have a little talking about Mike in drag and I've got soft features moment. What do we think? Is that a statute of limitations? Are we having fun?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I loved it. I think, and I hope that it's more of a tribute than a statute.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, there's nothing offensive. I'm not offended by this at all. But we live in a different time. And I'm like, is this happening in 2024 or are we making this joke. I don't know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's always a good question. But that has to do with the time and all.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, yeah. Kristen has something to say.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Could it be that Patrick maybe just doesn't want to have soft features? I love having soft features. I've been working my whole life on these soft features.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Which features are soft?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I mean, the eyes and the sort of puffy skin and the bags.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, no, no, we're not going there. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. There was. You won an award around this time. You were an MTV hottie. So shut. I'm going to shut this down.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The Hot Hump Day hottie.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, I have it tattooed somewhere. Anyways, to get to the bottom of things in the case, Mike heads to a bar where the Morello traders hang out after work and he convinces them all to boast about their most profitable trades. This, for me, wins. It's not the scene, I guess it's the scene. It's the sequence of the episode for me. Because personally, I don't know, something happened for me. Again, talked a bit about that scene for you last week where you felt like you found a gear, that you were like, oh, okay, this is Donna. This is where I want Donna to live. I'm watching this sequence and I'm like, this is. I remember shooting this again. It's always a scene. I remember. So that's. I know something special happened in it. I think I'm shooting without Gabriel, which I love shooting with Gabriel. But it was like Mike is kind of on his own. He's getting to figure out a problem. He's getting to play a role. He's. He's a confident version of himself. He's out there. I really loved this whole sequence. I'm not saying just performance wise. I love it for the character. I love the way it was directed. I like the needle drops and I like that it gives Mike this new superpower. And then really the more fun part of the scene is seeing what Mike does with it and the person he becomes and how he gets all this information out of these guys. I like that he gets drunk and it's not the end of the world. We talked about this last week and every time he seems to have fun or drink too much, he gets in trouble. That's not happening here. It's sort of fun. It allows it to be funny and fun and he gets the job done. And it ends with him, you know, at Harvey's door with that funny scene. So, anyway, I loved this sequence. And I think that it was, you know, something dropping in for me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, I'm glad that you brought that up, because I was definitely not gonna let this piece of the episode slide by without really saying, well, first of all, how the writing was such a gift to you as an actor, because you are getting to put on these Personas and you're getting to flex in that sort of way that we crave. But also the question that I have is, would the gift of the writing have been written if they didn't have the gift of the actor? And we are now on episode six, and they have a keen understanding of this gifted actor that they have. And so I believe they wrote this sequence to lean into that. And it was such, you know, it's like a chicken or egg moment. And it's definitely. I'm gonna think that the actor showed up first, and then that made this writing come along for him. And it's a good time to just acknowledge that shortly after this airing. Cause this is about to. This show is about to air 20 days later or something. People are going to see the first season. Then you got nominated for a SAG Award. So you were seen, you were known.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thank you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I want you to hold on to. Thank you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Appreciate that. I really do appreciate that. And this is one of the few times where I'm, like, watching it and I feel good about it. You know me, I can't watch this stuff. And I'm always like, oh, God, it could have been better. This is one moment where I was like, no, this works. This was really fun. This is work. I like the work. I can watch this and be proud of it. So I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Was it hard to be drunk?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't remember that part. I mean, it's always a little weird being drunk, but I think he's more aggressive. Like, I just got to lean into aggressive, which is not my default. You know, I want to be friendly. Soft features. And, you know, this is like this version of. I don't know, it's like Bradley Cooper from Wedding Crashers or something. You know, like, just this, like, bro that I don't get to be very often. And it was fun to put that on for a second. I will say. Also, you know, my first job was old school. We talked about this. And there's a moment in here where I realize I'm sort of stealing Vince Vaughn energy. Because I say there was a. I think it made it into the film. There's a moment in the film where in the backyard during the birthday party where Vince Vaughn tells someone to put their, like, costume back on and says, you're better than that. And we. On that set, it was so funny. Just the idea that you turn to someone and be like, you're better than that. And I say it in this scene, and as soon as you see my character say it, I was like, oh, okay, I'm just stealing from Vince Vaughn at this point. I will also say in the sequence, Aaron was on set, too. I remember Aaron being there, freeing you up, and that freed it up. We were all in the room and all figuring it out and all having fun together and making each other laugh. And that was the perfect combo.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That piece of. Dad might not like it. That was so hard. In the coming seasons, I've got to say that's a really interesting thing to note right now, that when you lost. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a difficult thing. So the P counter at the end of the scene is out of two.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What was it?

[Sarah Rafferty]

The P counter.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Sorry, I didn't hear.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We've said it twice.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yep. Mike gets a call to let him know that Rachel Zane wants to meet the test genius. Oh, no. He agreed to meet her. But when he gets there, he doesn't reveal that he's the test taker. I got a couple of nitpicks. We need a new name for Patrick's nitpicks. But, like, we really think this guy's the best pretzel in New York. I mean, let's take a look at that cart.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Didn't convince.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Look at that cartoon. New York's a big city. There's a lot of impressive pretzels. I'm not buying that. That guy's got the best of the best. And then I have a fashion police moment. Both of us are not doing great in this scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You guys love me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She's got a weird polka dot sweater. And I look at that. You know when the. When the collar goes to there and it doesn't go all the way to the thing? I don't know what you call it. When we talk to Jolie, we can talk about it. I just. It drives me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It looks so handsome. Look at that. Wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But I just, you know, like, Harvey's got. You know, when you get there, it just. It makes it all a piece. And that looks like you're wearing the wrong jacket to me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, this is. I have a lot to say. First of all, I did talk to Santu about this moment. Now I don't want you to get jealous as my work husband, than I was referring to my real husband a lot.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I really don't like it when you bring him in here like this. I know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know it's a lot. But this. I was really interested in bringing moments to him since he's in finance. But he. So I showed him this. I showed him basically this still. And I said, what do you think of this? What do you think of this suit? Of course, he said, how handsome you look. He said, well, it's just very clear that he's the junior guy.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Because he doesn't have the same spread on his shirt that Harvey does, because Harvey's in a more expensive shirt.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I might be having an emotional reaction to that, too, which was like, I don't mind playing the junior guy, but I don't want to look like I'm 14 and I don't know how to dress, you know? And it's not. There's a lot of suits where they don't. This is not common. I'm not always like this. Like, in the rest of the episode. I'm not always doing that. So I think I was always just, like, pushing in the other direction. Like, we're doing this other thing. Can we just keep doing that? And then every time they put me in this, I'd be like, bumps. Okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, I. I very much understand that feeling. And what I'm going to say is, I did have fashion police on this whole scene. And because, again, I've talked about accessories. Rachel has a red belt on that. She looks fantastic. She could wear a paper bag. She looks beautiful. You. But guys both look great. But I'm just not loving the clothes. And I don't think positive polka dots work on our show for somebody in the office.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But that being said, I just think this is a budgetary situation that we're in the beginning of the show that, you know, Harvey and Jessica need to be in these outfits that have to be very, very costly. We have to imagine and what they're. And. And Jolie is doing her best with what she has. See, as we move away, we do see that red belt. And I. You know, I've taken an issue with a lot of accessories up to this.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Point in that pretzel cartoon.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The hot dog cart looks good, though. Like, it's going to go on the little migration.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you think there's a story between those two? Like a little love story between the hot dog cart and the pretzel cart.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So close to each other, but they Seem very aloof. They're looking in other directions. But anyway, I take your point. And what's exciting too, is as Rachel's character is getting developed, really, in this episode, I'm ready to look at her clothes because her clothes just go off the chain. They get so, so good.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So it'll be to look at that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Of humble beginnings.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Look, you guys can't look bad in anything. You do look gorgeous.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Appreciate that. After visiting Gabby in jail, Mike and Harvey are more convinced of her innocence and are now wondering about her lawyer's motives. So Harvey pays him a visit.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, I didn't see this coming. I did not see this coming.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You didn't see this coming. There's a moment at the beginning of the episode where Harvey's like, so you're going to jail and you better just take it and you better thank me for it. And there's a moment where her lawyer in that scene looks at her and just goes like. Basically, it's like, what you gonna do?

[Sarah Rafferty]

He abdicated his responsibility pretty quickly.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He's clearly a very bad lawyer. So I will say, if you take that moment, for what it's worth, it's all. Not all that surprising that this guy is in the bad Patrick.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The clothes got in my way is my point. I bought the red herring of the dude in the bow tie and all my focus went to him and I wasn't noticing the lawyer.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's genius, actually.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The bow tie got.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Why the bow tie?

[Sarah Rafferty]

The bow tie is the red herring.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You can't take your eyes off the bow tie. Never trust.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Genius choice by Jolene.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And then we're Act 5. Harvey visits Dean Morello, reveals that his trusted right hand man, Burt Kimble is behind the insider trading. I have a nitpick. What is this office? So in our show so many times, the, like, offices are so beautiful and epic and especially of like the kind of big moment of the scene. And this office feels like they just had to shoot in it. This is like the head of a major hedge fund.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And then look behind him. What is this wind? You know what I mean? You can tell sometimes you're shooting a show and you're like, we gotta make the day. And the office has to be in this building and this is the best corner and you're just gonna make it work. It's probably just a schedule thing. And they're like, we need to do this scene and this is the best place to do it. But. But jumped out at me outside the courthouse. Gabby has been released and thanks, Harvey and Mike, for believing in her. There's a funny outtake in the gag reel, apparently, where Jenny says, thanks for getting me off. And I think we all just stare. We both just stare at her. There is a. What does she say in this scene? Can someone explain it to you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I can.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She says, is it something I missed?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm your genius bar. Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She says, I'll. I'm about to go find some water.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And we all laugh at it because she went. You went to get her some water. And then she escaped in the beginning of the episode. Did I just explain something to you?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Did you guys all catch that watching it? I'm just a dummy. Oh, Kiki didn't get it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

All right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Kristen didn't have it. Wow. I did not understand that. Let me see it again.

[Sarah Rafferty]

All right, well, I'm gonna find some water.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You don't come back soon, we're sending at a search party. How could you, like, what? Really? Instantly, you got that?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Absolutely.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

See, we all have different gifts.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wow.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I mean, I bring something else to the party.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm just not paying attention to life enough. Funny story in this. Maybe it's funny to me. This was a perfect example of Terry McDonough. It made me laugh so much, I'll never forget it. In this scene, you see how we're very low angle, like, belly shot for both of us. I remember Terry McDonagh came in after our first take. We both felt like the cool winners of the world. We'd saved the girl. We'd done the thing. He comes up to both of us. He goes, hey, chaps, how about the tummy? And he taps. Yeah, he taps his belly and goes, meaning, suck it in. The both of us had our bellies hanging out a little too much for him. And I'll remember Gabriel and I was.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Sad for the nine season.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It was so funny. Gabriel and I would do it to each other all the time anyway.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And then it turned into just being able for him to just go. Gabriel would just do that and we'd all laugh. And I wasn't even there. And it was hilarious.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Anyway, after King Lear, Lewis and Jessica are having dinner together. And another great scene between the two of these.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It was. I was so excited that we got it. I was like, oh, we do get to go on the date with them.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yes. Essential theater nerd alert.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Please bring it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Jessica is Jessica. King Lear, Harvey, Lewis and Mike, our sons fighting for attention and affection.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And Cordelia.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Are we going that deep?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my God. Thank you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Reference that deep. Thank you for that and I thought you'd appreciate that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So satisfying. Thank you for giving me that and thank you for sharing your nerdery, you know, publicly. It's very brave.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Join us on our other podcast, the Nerdery Shakespeare nerdery.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And you have something to say about Gina at the end of the scene.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, her? No, her line. She's got that. No again like so perfect. Single one liners the timing. You know, next week there's a revival of Cats. No, absolutely not. No perfect timing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So Rachel finds Mike in the office to thank him for his help and let him know that she's going to take the LSAT in three months. She's suspicious of his supportive response and figures out something. What does she figure out?

[Patrick J. Adams]

That he was the cheater.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What do you think of this?

[Patrick J. Adams]

This really surprised. This is an example of me not remembering at all. I was watching this scene going like, oh, are we about to kiss? That's how I started this scene. I was like, is this our first like, oh, it's about to happen for these two And I don't know why. Maybe I'm remembering like I'm wondering if maybe our first kiss happens in like similar spot. I don't know, it probably doesn't. But anyway, I was like, this is a romantic moment. And then it turns and she actually realizes that he's the cheater. And I. And it made me very sad. Cause I'd been hoping these two were figuring out this whole episode and I loved that. I didn't remember, so it was a surprise. And my brain doesn't work very well.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you think as an audience member it's great that we're sort of extending that tension? Are you just like, yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh yeah. No, no, no. I mean, I'm invested now obviously, so I'm like, oh no, they were so close. Something great was happening. It's also, you know, when someone is like, she's been on the vulnerable train and you sort of like want her to feel safe. And now when someone feels like they've been lied to, they clam up and you're like, oh no, wait, I hope she doesn't lose that vulnerable thing. Not, you know, not that she will, but like as a person I'm like, oh, they were so close to sort of connecting on this deeper level. And then Mike Ross's lies are gonna ruin everything. I think it also for me it's. I'm realizing how similar this scene is to a scene at the end of season two when something pretty pivotal will happen.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Don't Tell me. Don't tell me, don't tell me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Figures some stuff out about Mike later on. So, you know, she's onto Mike. And I think that's important to remember that Mike is living a lie. It's good for us to be reminded of that as much as possible.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I have a question for you. Do you think that I just thought of this just now? Do you think that those two scenes could have been flip flopped, which is the after Lear dinner date and then this scene so that we could have finished the episode on Gina's. No. And had that scene first? What do you think?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think you could, but I think. I mean, it depends. It depends on the episode. But for me, I would probably always choose the, like, heavier character, not character. The other one's a character too, but heavier. Like, you know, something's not. Not all is right. Come back next week, see if they can figure it out. Kind of a scene. Rather than. I love all these funny people and they're making me laugh. But it just depends. I guess it's a taste thing. Anyway, that is the end of this episode. Tricks of the tray. I think Rick Morag wins the episode. I don't even know. We've never had anybody win, but he's.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He just wins life.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He wins life. Objections, your honor? No, Don, I don't like it. I don't like having. No, Donna. I mean, I'm okay with it. You know, distance makes the heart grow fonder. So my heart is.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's why I'm okay with it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But I do. I do feel her missing from the episode. And I wish she was there.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thank you. I'm gonna add something into the.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What are you objecting?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'd like to add something into the minutes. I wanna add that I have some inconclusive evidence that I just wanna bring to you. And that is about the word P. I know. I brought it up as a joke.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I didn't hear it. What was it? Sorry, I didn't get it. Can you say it again? Can we just turn it up? I gotta turn my headphones up. What was the word?

[Sarah Rafferty]

The word. The word of the day. So I just talk about. I just want to talk about loving or hating the use of the word P. And I'm going to say here, it's really interesting. It's well used here as a representation of place and time, which is something that obviously Aaron talked about when we interviewed him about why it's important to keep these kinds of things in. But I think it's even more interesting now. To watch the show with that word in it, because I believe that in many ways, and I want to know how you feel about this, but I think that that word was overtly reclaimed by women in 2017. I'm just. I just think it's an interesting conversation. I think the word has been reclaimed. So I don't. I don't have a knee jerk response to it. What did you have when you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I didn't notice it. It didn't jump out at me. And then as soon as you wrote it down, I was like. I just had a moment of like, Is this in 2024? Does this make the cut? Is this the way.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't know if we do it now. I don't know.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, I don't know if it does. I mean, again, it's establishing that this is how these guys talk, which is helpful. And it's definitely not being glorified or, like, being used in a way that's like, look at our heroes and how they talk and how cool they are. So. But, yeah, I mean, I agree, It's. I totally agree with your assessment that it's a different word post 2017, for sure. But I don't know. I don't know if it makes the show later. I think it does because I think Aaron doesn't really. For Aaron, it's all stories. Like, do guys like this talk like this? Yeah, they do.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, they do.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Never mind. Let's move on. I think that's how he thinks about things, but again, we can ask him.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No. And I just. I just appreciate looking at it with a lens. That's fairly recent in terms of, like, talking about this kind of language. Can you speak like that? That's for a different podcast.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, you've been speaking like, it all podcasts. I mean, potty mouth for real.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think you tell me your closing statements. Tell me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think I've said it. I just think this was a big step forward. I think the whole episode as a whole, this episode moved things forward, and I think everybody was fantastic. Big fan of Tricks of the Trade. It was a pleasure to. What about you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I have nothing to add, you, Honor. So that's a wrap.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Case closed.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That is a wrap on chase.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wait, we've never said case of closed. We should always say case closed.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, Case closed.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's a wrap. As a film thing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, ready? Let's say it together. Ready? One, two, three.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Case closed. That's a wrap on Tricks of the Trade.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We are officially halfway through the first season.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Real quick. You know what I gotta say, I keep calling Kristen our best researcher, Kristen, and the fact is that she's my friend Kiki, and I always call her Kiki. And I'm tired of calling you Kristen. So, Kiki, can you give us the goddamn counter, please, for the week? No, we want to guess. Oh, yeah, definitely guess. What do you got?

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know what Jenny said? God damn, I heard that there. So I'm going to say it's between 1 and 3.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, you have to pick a number. Between 1 and 3 is 2. Do you think it's 2?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Between 1 and 3 is 2. We're mathing. I can do math, too.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Good Will Hunting. We don't do ranges on the goddamn counter. We pick a number. I'm going to go two.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That was rude.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We're going to go two.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, if he wins. He does win.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Does anybody want to guess the total, though?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you want to go for a total?

[Patrick J. Adams]

What are we at?

[Sarah Rafferty]

You guys tricked me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

19.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm a sore loser.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No. 20.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you want to guess?

[Patrick J. Adams]

18? Is it 18? Oh, my God. First one.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Whatever. I'm not impressed. God damn it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Louis, thank you for listening. Please make sure to rate, review and subscribe. It is such a great way for you to support the show that we are loving making for you so much. Please do that wherever you get all.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Of your podcasts and as always, we want to hear from all of you. If you have questions, thoughts or ideas or other things you'd like to hear from us us on the pod, please send your emails to sidebar podcasteriousm.com if you want to record an audio clip of the question, then go for it and we can play it on the show.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thank you so much. Have a great week.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Love you, honey.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Bye. Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams and Sirius XM Media. Our senior producer is Kimmy Gregory and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader. Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez. Our music is by Brendan Burns and our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin Anderson.

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