Undefeated

Summary

Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast – Episode Summary: "Undefeated"

Introduction In the premiere of their detailed recap series, Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty dive into Season One, Episode Nine of the acclaimed TV show Suits, titled "Undefeated." As the actors who portrayed Mike Ross and Donna Paulsen, respectively, Patrick and Sarah bring a unique insider perspective to their analysis. Their camaraderie is evident from the outset, setting a lighthearted and engaging tone for the episode.

Initial Reactions and Behind-the-Scenes Banter The episode kicks off with Patrick and Sarah sharing their initial reactions to re-watching Suits—a show they starred in but hadn't previously watched thoroughly. Their laughter and playful exchanges [02:21-04:29] highlight the casual and friendly dynamic between the hosts, making listeners feel like they're part of their conversation.

Episode Overview: "Undefeated" "Undefeated" focuses on Harvey Specter and Mike Ross's efforts to secure a settlement for a community of cancer patients against a formidable opposing counsel, Travis Tanner. Simultaneously, Mike grapples with Rachel Zane's wrongful accusation of leaking information to a rival firm. The episode intricately weaves multiple plotlines, showcasing character development and intense legal drama.

Detailed Scene Breakdown

1. Teaser Scene: Rachel and Mike's Flirtation

   • The episode opens with Rachel and Mike sharing a flirtatious moment in the Pearson Hardman hallway. Notably, a shocking line about Rachel not wearing underwear was improvised [08:42-09:08]. Patrick muses, "It's not in the script," pondering how such lines come about—whether through spontaneous on-set decisions or last-minute takes.

2. Introduction of Travis Tanner (Eric Close)

   • Eric Close's portrayal of Travis Tanner introduces a new dynamic as Harvey's adversary. Patrick remarks, "Harvey Specter has met his match in Travis Tanner" [05:11-07:01]. Their analysis delves into Tanner's charming yet ruthless demeanor, making him a compelling foil for Harvey.
   • Notable Quote:
     • Patrick (12:27): "He's really charming. Mike's charmed by him. Oh, who's this nice guy?"

3. Bullpen Dynamics and Pooch's Character

   • The introduction of Pooch Hall's character adds fresh energy to the bullpen scenes. Patrick and Sarah appreciate how Pooch's presence revitalizes the team's interactions, likening the bullpen to a "Top Gun locker room" [27:58-29:10].

4. Rachel vs. Lewis Litt's Showdown

   • A pivotal moment occurs when Lewis Litt accuses Rachel of leaking documents, leading to her suspension. The hosts highlight the tension and chemistry between Mike and Rachel, emphasizing Rachel's growth and resilience [30:08-31:08].
   • Notable Quote:
     • Sarah (25:35): "She's on her way to becoming a lawyer. She's struggled thus far, Rachel, like, she hasn't quite had what it takes."

5. Climactic Confrontation: Harvey vs. Tanner

   • The showdown at the Waldorf Hotel culminates in Harvey threatening to use incriminating evidence against Tanner. Patrick points out the masterful visual storytelling, noting how camera placement underscores Tanner's loss of control [57:20-58:20].
   • Notable Quote:
     • Sarah (53:57): "Donna and Harvey have that degree of intimacy. They have zero secrets."

Behind-the-Scenes Insights and Personal Stories Patrick and Sarah share candid anecdotes from their time on set, including improvisation mishaps and interactions with fellow cast members. Patrick recounts a moment of overstepping boundaries with the showrunner, Sean Jablonski, during a scene's filming [33:37-35:15]. This honesty adds depth to their analysis, illustrating the complexities of on-set collaborations.

Character Development and Themes Throughout the episode, themes of loyalty, integrity, and personal growth are explored. Mike's evolution into a self-appointed leader within the bullpen and Rachel's quest for justice and recognition are central to the episode's narrative. Sarah emphasizes Rachel's "righteous" stance, contrasting it with more vindictive portrayals often seen in similar scenarios [58:35-61:10].

Production and Direction The hosts commend director Felix Alcala for his fresh approach in helming the episode. Patrick notes Alcala's influence, drawing parallels to his previous work on the Battlestar Galactica reboot [47:30-48:02]. They also discuss the episode's music choices, highlighting how specific tracks enhance the storytelling by setting the appropriate emotional tone.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sarah (03:12): "You need to go to a doctor, you jackass."
• Patrick (10:02): "Is this a thing in New York just like midnight, like, late night newsstanding?"
• Sarah (16:22): "Her dress does not fit."
• Patrick (25:11): "You need to have my faith, but you're not getting my money."
• Sarah (53:57): "She doesn't need to be angry because she's so right."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts As the episode wraps up, Patrick and Sarah reflect on the multifaceted storytelling of "Undefeated." They celebrate the episode's strong character arcs, clever writing, and impactful performances. Shout-outs are given to standout actors like Vincent Laresca for his believable portrayal of Kenny, and kudos are extended to the show's writers and directors for their consistent excellence.

Honorable Mentions

• Rick Maraghi: Returning writer who introduced key characters like Travis Tanner, enriching the show's narrative.
• Felix Alcala: Director whose fresh vision brought new depth to the episode's scenes.
• Eric Close & Pooch Hall: For their compelling performances that added layers to the show’s dynamic.

Listener Engagement Patrick and Sarah encourage listeners to engage by submitting questions, thoughts, or ideas via email or audio clips. They emphasize the importance of ratings, reviews, and subscriptions to support the podcast's ongoing coverage of Suits.

Closing Remarks The hosts sign off with warm thanks, expressing their excitement for future episodes and the continued journey through Suits. Their genuine enthusiasm and insightful commentary make this summary not only a recap but also a deep dive into the complexities of the "Undefeated" episode.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Sarah Rafferty [03:12]:

   "You need to go to a doctor, you jackass."

2. Patrick J. Adams [10:02]:

   "Is this a thing in New York just like midnight, like, late night newsstanding?"

3. Sarah Rafferty [16:22]:

   "Her dress does not fit."

4. Patrick J. Adams [25:11]:

   "You need to have my faith, but you're not getting my money."

5. Sarah Rafferty [53:57]:

   "She doesn't need to be angry because she's so right."

These quotes encapsulate the hosts' witty and candid approach to dissecting each scene, providing listeners with both humor and thoughtful analysis.

Key Takeaways:

• Character Depth: The episode excels in developing its characters, particularly Rachel Zane and Mike Ross, showcasing their personal and professional growth.

• Dynamic Antagonism: Travis Tanner serves as a robust antagonist, challenging Harvey Specter in ways that enrich the show's conflict-driven narrative.

• Authentic Dialogue: Instances of improvisation and genuine actor interactions add authenticity to the show's portrayal of high-stakes legal drama.

• Visual Storytelling: Direction and cinematography play pivotal roles in conveying the episode's tension and character dynamics effectively.

Recommendations for New Viewers: For those new to Suits, "Undefeated" is a quintessential episode that highlights the show's blend of legal intricacies, personal relationships, and sharp dialogue. Patrick and Sarah's insightful recap serves as both an introduction and a deeper exploration for existing fans, making it an invaluable resource for anyone looking to understand why Suits has captivated audiences worldwide.

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Join the Conversation Patrick and Sarah invite listeners to share their thoughts and questions about "Undefeated" and beyond. Whether you're a seasoned fan or just starting your Suits journey, engage with the hosts to delve deeper into the show's rich narrative landscape.

Stay Tuned Don't miss out on future episodes of Sidebar: A Suits Watch Podcast, where Patrick and Sarah continue to unpack each episode of Suits with expert analysis, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and lively discussions.

Subscribe Now Ensure you never miss an episode by subscribing to Sidebar on your preferred podcast platform. Rate, review, and share to support the hosts as they continue to explore the dynamic world of Suits.

Transcript

[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

Horizons in 2025 by learning a new language. Rosetta Stone's Immersive Lessons Guide you to think in a new language from day one. I personally am so excited to be diving into Rosett holiday season. I finally have some quiet time because you know what? My daughters who are in French immersion are already speaking French, and I have no idea what they're saying. And my wife speaks French and I should speak French as a Canadian, and I don't. And I've been finally able to take a look at Rosetta Stone, and I can tell it's going to be exactly how I can continue to communicate with my kids as they learn new languages today. Sidebar Listeners can take advantage of Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off, visit RosettaStone.com side that's 50% off unlimited lifetime access to 25 language [e-mail] sideb hi everyone. Welcome to Sidebar, a Suits Watch podcast. My name is Patrick Adams.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm Sarah Rafferty, and I have the giggles. We both were on Suits, but we never really watched Suits until now.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And this week we watched Season one, Episode nine, better known as Undefeated. But before we dive in, we have the giggles.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We just start here.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh God, it's a good way to start the new year.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I feel it feels right. It feels like a cleansing breath. Yeah, a cleansing giggle.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I need the giggles.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is what we did on set. This is what Gabriel brought to us. I feel like the giggles. He brought a lot of giggles. Everybody knows that. But I felt like, though sometimes maybe it could have felt distracting, it was also a nice reset, right?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Gotta laugh.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Gotta remember we're just here playing, right? More hair playing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I have to question because you seem to know things about doctors. I got this bump on my face. Do you see this thing?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

How do you get rid of it? It's not a zit, and it's not a cold sore.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What is it?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think you just need some clementia.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But do you laser things or something? I've never done lasering. Is that a thing?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, I know that stuff. Yeah. You're going to have a laser on you. I. You know, I have red light.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I don't think that's gonna do it. This thing's been there for, like, a couple weeks.

[Sarah Rafferty]

If it's been there for a couple weeks, you need to go to a doctor, you jackass.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, it's just a little. It's just a little something. It's just like a little bump. Wait a minute.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know, wait, hang on. I got a little bump. Can you look at this and tell me if this looks infected?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, exactly. Get your bumps checked. It's 2025.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Or get your friends or check your friends.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Bumps to you by bumps.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Check a friend's bumps.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Check a friend's bump in 2025. Check a friend's bumps. Look them over. Look for the bumps.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know, this is the podcast that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Nobody asked for, but that everybody needs. Happy New Year.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Happy New Year.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Here we are, 2025. What's your dream for the year?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm excited about this time that we.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Had to check your bumps from time to time. Oh, God. That sounded weird. Suddenly it sounded weird. First time it was going.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It didn't feel weird before.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Second time. First time, I was fine. Second time, when I talked, looked you right in the eye and said, I want to check your bumps, it looked all weird. It suddenly got really weird.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I hope we're at the point in our relationship where nothing really needs to feel weird.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We're close. Yeah, we're pretty darn close. Well, today we're breaking down. Season one, episode nine, Undefeated. This episode was written by Rick Maraghi. He's back for the second time. Directed by Felix Alcala, this is his first episode, not of television, but of suits. It originally aired on Thursday, August 18, 2011, and it was shot July 5th to 13th, 2011.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And in this episode, Harvey and Mike work to get a settlement for a community of cancer patients. But the opposing counsel keeps being one step ahead. Harvey Specter has met his match in Travis Tanner. And Mike wants to help Rachel, who's been wrongly accused of leaking information to a rival firm.

[Patrick J. Adams]

All right, opening statements about Undefeated.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. What do you think? What's your opinion?

[Patrick J. Adams]

You know, I'm still trying to figure out our format here, but it did occur to me this time that maybe a good way to use opening statements rather than talk about the episode, which we're about to talk about endlessly, is talk about how I'm going into the episode when I'm feeling it. So I'm going to start writing these opening statements like, before I've watched it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, wow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you know what I mean? Like, where am I at, dear? What's going on? How am I feeling? Am I excited? And so going into this one, I'm going in a little worried because I'm exhausted. And we've talked a lot about that on the podcast. I promise in 2025, I won't be so tired.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're going to be rejuvenated in 2025.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's been a long run, and I've noticed that when I watch these episodes and I'm tired, I become a little sick, cynical, and a little judgmental. And so for this one, I'm going in with an awareness about that, going, ooh, you're a tired man. And I didn't totally want to watch the episode, if I'm honest. I was like, oh, I got to watch it. And that hasn't happened so much. So I wanted to be honest about that going in. Opening statement. Not 100% into it, but then I see Rick Maraghi wrote it. That made me more excited because we love the man. This is his second episode. His first episode. This season was one of our favorites. So I'm excited to see that. And then I'm also excited to see what Felix does, because I'm very curious, as we know, of seeing what these new directors do and the different style they bring to it. So that's how I was remaining positive going in.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But I also wanted to be honest that Dad's tired.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Dad's tired.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Dad's tired.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's fair.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So right in the first few frames of this episode, I was so excited because it just feels like Rowan would be happy. There's some great pace right out of the gate. We've got that. Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, I forgot. Yes. Who's keeping the pace?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Is that a deep cut to go back to Ro and saying that she really likes the pace.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The pacing is good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And there's something kind of really, I don't wanna say simple in, like, a diminutive way. There's just something so, like, pure about this episode out of the gate, because it is one case that we can get our head around pretty quickly. It's very clear. We've got, like, a winning plaintiff. Yeah, we've got a winning plaintiff. I've done that so many times. Plaintiff. Got a winning plaintiff. And the case itself has a lot of heart. Jessica's gonna trust her best closer to it. So we've got, like, these archetypical things happening. Right. That we're familiar with that gives us that familiarity. Harvey takes on a formidable foe, which is new and fun and exciting. Rachel is in peril. And listener. Wait for it. Because this episode closes with possibly one of the most satisfying Rachel scenes ever. And I'm excited to talk to you about it. And I did talk to Rick Maraghi about it a little bit. We meet Benjamin. Benjamin, who has a very special place in my heart. And Lewis is Louising. And also I realized Eric close looks like he could be my brother, doesn't he?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I was, like, watching him, I was like, why have I never played his sister in anything on all those great TV shows he was on? Gosh, so many.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So many. I think what you're right and what you're hitting on is how many new people we get to meet in this episode that go on to be fundamental and important to our show. So. And I have a couple of points. Maybe Rick mentioned it to you, but something I learned about that. But let's get to that when we get to it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

All right, so we're in the teaser. We open on Rachel and Mike flirting in the hallway at Pearson Hartman.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right off the bat, a shocking line.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Which apparently is not in the script. Is not in the script. Yeah. We have this crazy line where Rachel says that she's not wearing any underwear. And upon further inspection, not in the script. But I'd be dying to know how it came about. And it doesn't seem like something that Megan would have improvised.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Didn't feel like that to me. For some reason that doesn't work. So I don't know if maybe they came up with it in the moment, like, everybody decided to do it, or maybe we did it. Sometimes you'll do things as a joke, not filming. And then people will be like, that was really funny. And then you film it. So I don't know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Or you do it on the last take. Cause they've already got it. So you're just going to do the thing that you're like, they'll never use this.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And then they use it, and then they use it, and they use it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And then they use it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But it's nice to see these two flirting and. And Right off the bat, I went to a potential contender for our Gina Torres award. I. I mean, and this might be fashion police stuff. Like, am I totally wrong? But I thought this outfit was really cool. Is it like. Yes. I'm asking. I'm asking. I'm asking a woman's opinion because I have no fashion sense. Was this. Was this a cool outfit? Is this good or is this it? I understand. I'm also putting you in a position where you have to talk about another person's clothing in a suit.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, yeah. Well, okay. I have no problem with that because much of the time, we're gonna be talking about Rachel and Jessica, and they always look amazing. Those women can't. They can't look bad. They could wear a paper bag. It is a great dress. It is a very cool dress. It has, like, this cool ruching situation and this, like, belted thing, but it has, like, this khaki tone that gives it kind of this casualness in that environment. But I have notes about the outfit. I do.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What? What? What?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's ill fitting. They didn't tailor it. It's not ill fitting on her. Her.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I get it. Nothing we're saying is that anyone doesn't look right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I get that there's a bunchiness that wasn't managed. And I know in later seasons that would have thick or no. Right. Right on the front.

[Patrick J. Adams]

God. All right, let me just see. Oh, I see what you mean. Like, it just. God, I'm such a fashion neophyte. I see what you mean.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a cool dress.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a beautiful dress. She looks amazing. But you could gather material differently.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The first dress that I'm wearing is also ill fitting. And I think this was a budget issue that they. We didn't have time with the tailor that, like, 1, 2, and 3. Maybe had time with the tailor and the rest of us didn't yet. Because I do remember sometimes at this point, Jolie would say, let's pick the dress that fits the best right now. Because we can't. We've already used up the tailor.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Literally say that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We didn't have, like, an on staff tailor at this point, but we probably.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Had a limited amount of hours that we could use.

[Patrick J. Adams]

This is all interesting stuff to hopefully talk at the. At the end of our season wrap up. I think we're gonna get a chance to hopefully talk with Aaron, and it'd actually be interesting to talk budget and how the bind of a whole television season works, how the later episodes that we're getting into now are different than the first episodes. I'd be curious to hear that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, so while Rachel and Mike corral the plaintiffs in the library, Travis Tanner walks in. So tell me about Eric Close.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Eric Close appeared in six episodes as Travis Tanner. He was so great. And you can see in this episode, I mean, it's the first time we're really getting a good foil for Harvey. And I think they do a very good job in the sequence, this whole sequence in the teaser of making him. There's a real fox in the hen house type vibe with him. Right. The music's changing. He's really charming. Mike's charmed by him. Oh, who's this nice guy? He's dressed a little differently. He's dressed down. There's this great piece of.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Cause he's from Boston.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He's from Boston. How does he like them apples? There's that piece of music that drops in when he walks into the conference room in the scene just after this. I don't know how to describe it, because I don't speak music, but it's layered in underneath, like a almost Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails, Social Network soundtrack kind of a thing. Deep cut, but it's cool. They just do a very good job of setting him up as a great foil for Harvey. And you can see in Gabriel's performance, I think, in this whole sequence, he seems really rattled by him.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And there is. In this whole episode, I can think of a couple other places that are coming up where the music comes in. And it does tip the hat to how you're supposed to feel in a really fun way. And also, you said that you really loved Eric's approach to acting or to being on set. Like, there was something about him that really resonated with you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I just remember him being, like, the nicest guy and really charming. And, you know, it's hard when you're coming in and playing the villain. But I think part of his. What makes his Travis Tanner so compelling is he's not playing a villain. Yeah. He's doing it really with a smile. He's not out. He's not mustache twirling and Lonnie.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, not at all. Janet.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Harvey. Yeah, he's really. He's. He's enjoying it. He's enjoying the. The fun of it. And he seems very confident, and I think that's probably why we brought him back. Is that a. He's terrific and we're so lucky to have him, but you want to see him go up against Harvey over and over again.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. And then he tricks Donna.

[Patrick J. Adams]

How dare he tricks Donna. We don't like to see Donna get someone. Get the best of her. But again, it makes Tanner look even cooler. Does, like, just gets her right away.

[Sarah Rafferty]

When he plays that moment with you in the library when you're like. And then you go up here and you turn and then you see Donna and he's like, oh, yeah, Donn Donna. And he pretends that he's like, buds with Donna. It's like, so believable.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, yeah. And then, you know, we get to see Tanner and Harvey together in the office. And I think it's just, like I said before, such a great setup for these two characters. The foil. You can really tell. Oh, Harvey's kind of meta match here. No, you never like to see somebody go after. After our main man, but you can tell they're both going to enjoy. Enjoy the battle. And so it makes us excited for the rest of the episode. They do this weird thing in this episode with the whip panning. Do you remember that? Like, Travis Tanner's talking and it whip pans to the plaintiff and then whip pants to Travis Tanner. How'd you feel about that?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I thought it was interesting, but I also found it took me out of it. Cause I was like, that's hard for the actor. Cause they're just like, hey, say that line. And then we're gonna move the camera. Like, say it. It's not grounded in being in the midst of a scene.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, it felt very static. Felt like there was a version of it that might work, but we didn't pull it off properly or something. It just. I didn't feel like we were catching someone in the middle of a scene. Like you just said, it felt like one person saying a line and then it going away.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It felt like. Can you say it again? Wait, it felt like it was about the camera.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I know what happens to me when I'm like, oh, shoot, I've gotta get this. I gotta feel when this camera's here. And then I've gotta do it in a certain amount of time. And then you're just thinking about the technical.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Totally. But you know what? I.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But it was a cool trial.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm so happy to see things being tried, so.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So we do. We have learned about our case of the week. 200 members of a small community school are suing a big oil company who failed to properly seal off an oil well. And now the community, unfortunately, is riddled with cancer. And Harvey is fighting to get Them the money that they deserve.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Little Aaron Brockovich episode. Let's go. All right, we're into act one. Jessica's reassuring plaintiff, Kenny, when Harvey enters, and right when I think somebody's about to maybe take the Gina Torres Award.

[Sarah Rafferty]

For the week, she takes it for herself.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Gina walks in and just snatches it. My God. Again, I don't know the first thing about fashion, but here it is. She's unstoppable. So that is a great outfit.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a great outfit. It is a great woman inside. A very good outfit. Gina makes that outfit great. But it's the proportions of that outfit that works so well. You see the waist. You see the length of her. You understand. Understand the length of her legs. It's just perfectly perfect.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you understand the length of my legs?

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, but look at it. In the wide shot, you can really see that it's perfect for the proportions of her body, which means it was tailored.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And then I love that when she sits, it's like she puts her foot up. Yeah. It's just like a casual sit.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She can be wearing that and yet seem like it's a Saturday morning and it's chill. That's how. That's how easily she wears that outfit.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I also think that fabric gives you that, too, because it looks like. It's like a jersey. Moves in a way that is really comfortable.

[Patrick J. Adams]

A jersey. When you say jersey. Jersey, I think like a sports jersey.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You can think whatever you like best.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Fashion. What is jersey?

[Sarah Rafferty]

The ladies who are listening know what I'm saying?

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, but I want to know. Explain it to me. I want to know what you're talking.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm just giving you a hard time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Jersey. What is that?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Jersey is like a fabric that moves and stretches and drapes really nicely. A lot of the things that you've liked her in have been that jersey. Like a Diane von Furstenberg dress. Like a wrap dress. What did you just say to me, Diane? Gesundheit.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What did you call me?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wow. Really?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I do know. I know that name.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I know that name. Good Lord. I don't have to explain that. I do not know where to start. So anyway. But that is when Tanner interrupts Donna at her desk. Can you pop that up real quick?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm gonna play this little game with you for a second.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, I love it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Patrick.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. See that dress?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Just look at it for a second.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I totally see what you are talking about.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Thank you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

100%. Now I can't fit now I can't unsee yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That dress does not fit.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That is not fitting properly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No. No, it is not. And that that camera angle is doing nobody any favors.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But that's so interesting.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So see the bunchy bunches?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Shouldn't be there.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And there was bunchy bunches on.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Bunchy. Bunchy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Bunches of oats on Rachel's honey. Bunches of oats on Rachel's dress, too. But it is not what is going on with Gina's dress. You just are like, what is happening?

[Patrick J. Adams]

It fits perfectly.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So tailoring is on full display in this. So the tailors on suits, because our wardrobe got better and better and better through the season, we have more time with them, of course, and it was their gifts that brought it. Like I had. I remember once I had a Valentino jumpsuit and it was the wrong size, and so all they did was right in front of me take scissors and cut it in half. And you think, oh, my God, this is a Valentina piece of Valentina. But no, that's exactly what you do. They just redid it for exactly my proportions, which is what was going on with that dress with Gina. It is a knockout.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Got it. All right. It's all in the tailoring, guys. 2025, get a tailor. This episode. This episode brought to you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Bye. 1-800-Taylor Foreign.

[C]

Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of their national red tag sales event going on right now through January 19th. Stop by any of their participating communities and find select red tag homes at incredible pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the red tag sales event going on right now. Discover the Dr. Horton [e-mail] that's Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal housing opportunity builder.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, it's 2025. It's the new year. We just spent the holidays giving gifts to everybody we love. But you know what? You know what this year, know what it's about now?

[Sarah Rafferty]

What?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Getting gifts for yourself, maybe.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Have you ordered anything from Quince?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm very excited. I have some Luxury towels come in.

[Patrick J. Adams]

My good call towels.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Wrap myself up in some cozy towels in the cozy weather.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, for the pool. Like poolside Quince towels.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think they're for my shower or my hot tub. I think it's for my bath time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

I love my bath time. So I'm gonna love my new tow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

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[Sarah Rafferty]

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[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, next scene. Then we see Harvey and Mike at the coffee cart talking strategy, doing their thing, calling Michael Jordan. Great scene. Love to see these where, yes, we move a little plot around, but really it's just about our boys being silly boys.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. And you having a panic attack when Michael Jordan answers the phone, which was not in the script. It was the ringing that made you hang up. But what you chose to do was actually play like, oh my God.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Also, I don't think I'm going to ask him about baseball is in the script.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, it's not in the script.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Which I'm proud of myself for because I'm not a sports. I mean, look, I know Michael Jordan, but like, I'm not the guy that wants to go riffing on joke. Like sport jokes. That's always gonna go badly. Exactly. And so the fact that I had a little improv that has anything to do with the the sporting world proud of me hat tip first. One last one.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Nice. So then Jessica and Lewis gather the associates. Case information has been leaked from inside the firm. No, Lewis is determined to get to the bottom of it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Of course he is. We got lots going on in this scene.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Marching all the associates into Everybody's marched in.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But we meet Pooch. We meet Jimmy, played by Pooch hall, who came back for three more episodes after this we see more Max Toplin. He's speaking now. I know we've heard him speak before, but he's got. Now we've got a little bit in here, which is very funny.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. He wants a tattoo and he's overpaying on his apartment, which is some good information.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That was really funny.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Later we hear he may have been discussing a dermatological problem.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So it's.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's just proof that our writers love Max and are writing for Harold.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. You can see it starting to happen. And that Rick specifically, I think Rick Maraghi gets it. Gets how to write it. I love this scene. I thought this was a great scene. But I think this episode does what other episodes have tried to do, which is like, perfects the vibe in the bullpen. There's a real guys trying to outmatch each other vibe. And by introducing pooch here. You're gonna see a bunch of scenes in this episode, I think, where you feel the bullpen is like what we wanted it to be, sort of a locker room vibe, where as soon as the adults leave the room, we're all kind of like one upping each other and trying to get the best of one another.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. But this is the episode especially. And we'll talk about it when we get to the scene. This is the episode where Mike's character kind of takes the reins in there and becomes the leader. Like the self appointed leader.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, he's not afraid to kind of step up in this one.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, he's grown into that role. So Mike and Harvey discuss Travis Tanner. Donna walks in to connect a call and Travis Tanner is on the line.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's another Mike Harvey scene. I always feel like these are becoming little ports in the storm. Like, we just need to check back into them. Whether it's Mike and Harvey or Mike or Donna and Harvey or. We just need. We're learning now in the pace of the show. We need to. Every five scenes, you have to just drop in a piece of silliness and fun back and forth.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And also, I think I speak for the entire planet when I say Donna should wear blue a lot because you look smoking hot. It might not fit, though. I might be totally wrong. I'm just saying, color wise, it looks great. Am I wrong?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a good dress.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You don't like. You don't like blue.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a really good dress.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You don't like blue.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I love. I love blue. Blue is my favorite color to wear.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm getting the look. What happened? What happened?

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're getting the look that, like, thanks, friend.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, okay, good. You're getting the fashion fool.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is me trying to be, like, cute, like. Oh, okay, good.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm just making sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No fashion fool there. I loved that dress. This is the scene where Donna says, officially, you know, I listen.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, love that. Yeah, it's a great line.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And in the last episode, this is the first time. This is the first time where she's completely just says straight up, like, I'm.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Listening to everything you say.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know, I listen because he looks at her like, wait, how do you know? Cause I come in and I say, that tennis playing douchebag. He's on the phone. But you guys only just talked about it. You just talked about that he went to Yale and that he's a tennis player, which of course really cracked me up because Santu went to Yale and played on the tennis team. So Gabriel and I thought it was funny.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wait, what school did he go to?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, okay, but. But I'm telling you from behind the scenes, Gabriel and I thought it was fun because my husband, a hundred percent, is that guy. So that was really fun. But one of the points that I want to make about having Donna come in and say, you know, I listen is important a little bit to the evolution of Donna and something that Donna was made fun of a lot on social media about. But in the previous episode. We didn't talk about this in the previous pod, but there's two places where Donna's lurking outside the room in the previous episode, Identity Crisis, where she's just there to get the information so that we know that she has it. And it's a little bit weird that she's kind of creeping. And what I felt was that that was really starting to diminish her power that she had to be sort of on the outskirts of a room listening in, instead of being somebody who is so intimately linked to Harvey that they share enough that she's totally up to speed. She's also in charge of all of his calls and emails and that sort of thing. But she's also has a real intuition about what's going on, and she listens in on the calls.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So they.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Which is not abnormal, right? I don't know. Like, when I talk to my agents, for example, when I call my reps, their assistants are listening on the call.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That's not a phone call. But she was listening to your. Right. Like she's put on an intercom.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like she just bugged the room, basically.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But she's got to, because she's Got to stay ahead of it because. So when he goes, ah, Donna, all right, we need you to. You've already got it done.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes, exactly. So, anyway, what I think's interesting about that is that Donna and Harvey have that degree of intimacy. They have zero secrets. They obviously spend lots of time together, and she's considered equal status. So that's what we're, like, locking in right now.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And we don't have to bring you, the actor, in for scenes to stand outside the office.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Patrick J. Adams]

All right. Mike enters the bullpen to find Jimmy accusing Harold of being the mole. Mike tells everyone to get back to work. Yeah, from what we were talking about before, I'm starting to really love being in the bullpen in this episode. I think it has a lot to do with Pooch Hall. He's great. We were so lucky to have him. He was doing Ray Donovan as well at the time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think he hadn't done it yet. So I called Bonnie last night, Bonnie's Notebook. And she said Hooch had auditioned for her for many things, and she was always looking for something for him. And this was it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Got it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Because remember how she said. I asked her when we were interviewing her, I said, you get so invested. Like, when you go through a testing process and you've got three actors and only one gets it, how do you feel? What do you do about the other two? And she had the simplest answer, which was so sweet. She was like, I just immediately think of what I owe them. And I think, that's Pooch. Here is that. And then she said. And then immediately it got really complicated to schedule him because he got Ray Donphin.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Which was, I think, his first big.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Big, big, big fact with heavy hitters.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. And then we kept getting him, you know, while he was doing Ray, Donna. But it was always cool to have him come in and tell great stories from that set and how much fun he was having. The Mike Herald Pooch combo is a really fun team to watch in here. And now that there's, like, a genuine crisis, a mystery that these guys are trying to crack, it makes the bullpen a place I want to, like, hang out more. It's like a Top Gun locker room or something.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And it's the place where Mike gets to finally be king, I think.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Where he's learning to stand up for himself. For sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So Harvey meets Tanner at the school. And then after some back and forth, Tanner says his client is looking to settle. Harvey senses that something is afoot. What happens in Act 2?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh. So in Act 2, Mike and Harvey check in on Kenny. It's clear that Tanner is breaking the rules and fighting dirty.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Filthy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Then back at Pearson Hardman, the associates are starting to turn on each other.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Benedict Arnold, nice reference. You helping your high school girlfriend with her homework again? Nailed it. Great line.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And then he's like, she's of age.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Like, so good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I love this.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I love these. I love these scenes. Lewis pulls Mike into his office to congratulate him. Mike inadvertently has reported the mole when handing some documents to Lewis. Everything points to Rachel, who is suspended.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That was a really funny moment to have Lewis behind you with his hands on your shoulders. We get to have that shot of the two of you and see how terribly uncomfortable you are. Yeah, that was funny. That was great.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I also find it funny that Mike takes a $10,000 check. I mean, he obviously is upset and he's gonna go try and fix this situation, but he doesn't give back that $10,000 check.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Cause he's human.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You know, Maybe I'll hold on to this.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I mean, see what happens.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm not judging. So then Mike follows Rachel outside. She is livid. She has cause to be.

[Patrick J. Adams]

She's angry. She got. She got let go. I always love it. I mean, we've talked about it before, but it's fun to see Rachel start to get these pieces to play, you know, being angry, something. There's just more to it than being helpful to Mike. Figure out a problem. She's now has a serious problem of her own that Mike needs help with. And I think she's great in these scenes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Mike has to help with it, but she's not asking for his help.

[Patrick J. Adams]

No.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Which is really.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, yeah, that's a good point.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, she is her own. Well, I'm not going to actually. Not going to spoil the end of it. Well, no, but it's a good point.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. She's like, I'm going to go deal with this myself.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Can I tell you that I got triggered at the end of the scene?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Tell me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Because she's driving away and you're like, you're overreacting. And I was like, yeah, I was like, you're not over it and say that to a woman.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, it's.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Don't tell me how to react.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Well, so you're not overreacting. You just got fired for something you didn't do that would, like, affect your whole career. That's. That's a good proportion reaction. Yeah, good point. I have something about this scene that brought up which was a behind the scenes drama a bit. This is not something to dwell on. But it is, I want to be honest, when things come up that were also uncomfortable or maybe don't make me not look that good. I remember while we were building the show, we would often improvise lines and we would come up with lines and they were some of our favorite moments. Right. And we've talked about this. When Aaron was there, it was great because he could just say, yeah, do that. It's great. When Aaron wasn't there, it was harder to do because you'd have to do what was scripted. And I was young and I don't remember the context within this scene or whatever, but I just have a memory of us shooting a scene. And that's why I think it's this one. It's Rachel and I on the street. And something wasn't working about the scene. We couldn't quite get it to work the way that we thought it could. And so we started kind of riffing. Not on camera, but before we went to camera. What if you say this? What if I say this? What if I do this? You do this. Which is. It's a kind of a. No, no. Sometimes. Because you have a writer who wrote a script. I don't remember if Rick was there. That would change it if Rick Maraghi was there. But it just made me want to talk about this moment where I think I overstepped that boundary as an actor. And I. And I maybe made too many suggestions or I really overthought my own ability. But I remember I got really in there, like more than an actor, especially a young new actor should probably get in there. And Sean Jablonski, our showrunner, took real offense to it. Not in the moment, but it was something that I got a phone call about later on. And I remember just being mortified by it. It was like the first real kind of talking to I got on the show. And as a young actor, it was sort of terrifying.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, yeah. That would make me so scared.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. You know, but I also got defensive because I was like. Cause I was like, legitimately, like the scene wasn't working. And, you know, I was used to. If Aaron was here, he would. We'd work it out. I had no doubt that Eren and I were always sympathic and on the same page. But I think I overestimated how much that sense of connection between Eren and I and how much faith I had in that we would be on the same page about things. Sort of did not Take the appropriate route. Which now would be. I mean, some showrunners are just like, do not change a word. That's it. This is the script. It's not up for conversation. That was not how this show evolved. There was like, let's try it. Let's make it funnier. As I think a lot of comedies are or shows that have comedic elements have to have. But I think I overstepped it. I didn't check before. These are all conversations you should have before you get to set.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I did not. If in a perfect world and it was something that I didn't do and it was in the moment and I think I overstepped. And I remember getting a phone call and getting into a very heated back and forth with Sean Jablonski, who I didn't ultimately know very well. You know, he was an important part of the show, but he wasn't. I knew Aaron better.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Do you know what he said? Do you remember any?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Just like, that's. You're out of line, basically. You know, in not as nice words as that. It was yelling. There was yelling back and forth. Totally fine. Now, Sean is an incredible guy and we totally buried it. And I apologize profusely, as did he.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Look, it happens towards the ends of seasons when also they were probably breaking the finale, you know, at the same time where if you think about the number we're on, like the different kinds of pressures that are going on, plus the edits of all these things while we're on the air. We're on the air. So they gotta get. Deliver things. But I think that there's always this moment where there's a really difficult, elusive and scary line between being collaborative and then the conflict. Like, there's a moment where sometimes where you know that you are supposed to stand down and that can get very hard because it's your mug up there.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Playing the scene. And you can feel a moment that maybe feels like it's not working to you in a scene. I noticed in this scene there was a start stop kind of. Rachel goes to sort of hail a cab, but she's not quite at the curb yet. There was something that I was like.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Might have been that I don't even.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's funny. I don't remember anything. It was a great scene, but it wasn't quite. There was this one little not in gear moment. Blocking wise.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

But I think it's interesting that you bring it up because I do think it's an important thing to talk about on this podcast as we Move forward. Because there were conflicts and 100%. And conflict is healthy. And usually on the other side of conflict, when there is actually repair, is a kind of growth. Totally, totally. And the collaboration gets better and stronger, but it can be a longer process.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. And you know, and you have two very different jobs. You're writing it, I'm performing it. But there's so much crossover. And to figure out how to navigate that relationship with respect. Just like I respect you've written it. I also respect that maybe the things that make me uncomfortable as an actor that I, like, don't want to do might actually be the best thing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right, right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

How many times have we had that experience? So many times on this. Yeah. Like. Like, I can be sure that this is not right. And then we do it and it's like, oh, my God, it was. Right. I was just scared to do it, or I thought I couldn't do it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right. And look, I was a very young actor at this time, and, you know, I was filled with a lot of. I think I know everything. Energy after shooting nine episodes of television. I was young. I was young, and I think I got a bit cockier and had a few wins, had a few good lines that I made up that were good and funny. And so that makes you a little cocky. And I think maybe this was a moment where I overstepped that. And sadly, probably not the last one.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think from the Sean Jablonski side of it, I think what's interesting in these conflicts and when collaboration turns into conflict, we bring every one of those conflicts from every other show collaborative endeavor we had, we bring to that one totally. So in sometimes what I experience and sometimes what I feel like I'm on the side of is I can feel when that side. The sort of more in charge side, it's the worst feeling in the world where you feel like what I call, in the most kind of awful way, like, shut up and look pretty.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Just. We gotta. This is a business. We gotta. We gotta make our day.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's not about you today.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's not. No. And that's fine. And it's true. But sometimes it hurts in that ugly way of shut up and look pretty. And that's ego, too. And sometimes. I'm sorry, as a woman, sometimes it's true, that is a part of the patriarchy that exists. But sometimes it's just. Yeah, it's tough. So I'm glad you brought it up. And let's see if they. How it comes up for us in the future.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. I want to be honest about conflict. It happens. Comes along.

[C]

Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of their national red tag sales event going on right now through January 19th. Stop by any of their participating communities and find select red tag homes at incredible pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the red tag sales event going on right now. Discover the Dr. Horton [e-mail] that's Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton America's builder and equal housing opportunity builder.

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[Sarah Rafferty]

Harvey meets with Vanessa, the private eye at the newsstand, and she reveals that Tanner has rented a conference room at the Waldorf for the next day.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Great to have her back. Wait, one weird thing. Newsstands at night. Was it weird to you? Why are we at a newsstand?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, that's where they liaised. That's where they could just be like, two people standing next to each other not having a conversation.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right, but is this like a thing in New York just like midnight, like, late night newsstanding? I don't know. Just was.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think it is up on different time. Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

There were newsstands that have multiple, like, library shelf type things. Like, it was a very.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, yeah, they were going out quickly at that point.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'd be curious to know if the newsstands were in the, like, initial script or if it was a. Like, we need to come up with another place for them to be.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, well, I think what's important about it is that they can be two people who look like they're. They're. They could be back to back and, you know, somebody could slip somebody something else. You know, it could look illicit, like, it could look like a drug dealer. You know, I'm just leaving this over here for you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You pick it up, no one will ever galore. Lines. Octopussy lines. In this episode, in this Where'd you land? Where'd that land for you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, right on my pussy counter.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. How did you feel about not one, but two pussies?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I forgot to put them on the counter.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Get them on the counter. I mean, these were. This was a one, two count.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How did you feel about it? I didn't even think about it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Really?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Did you?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I mean, I guess I want the word to be reclaimed, but it did jump out at me. I was like, oh, okay. All right. Go, Go, Harvey. I guess. I don't know.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I appreciate that. I appreciate that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Felt a little forced. Yeah. I don't know why I'm uncomfortable with this word. I don't know. I gotta examine that for myself. You wanna talk it through? Check my bumps.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my God. Moving on.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Act three. Donna explains to Mike how employee codes, the evidence being used against Rachel, how they work at Pearson Hard.

[Sarah Rafferty]

We got a scene together.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This is a scene for us to do.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We get to work together, which we love. What's the thing you say to me right at the beginning of it that I thought was hilarious? Donna, can you tell me about these confidential employee codes that Lewis says Rachel used to fax the witness list over to Wakefield?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Katie, I have a thousand things to do before lunch. Hold Mike's hand while he crosses the street. Not one of them.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Donna, this one's for Rachel. I love that line.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You need.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I know we use the billing codes to charge the clients, but what do we use the employee codes for?

[Sarah Rafferty]

There's special codes for when you need to use the firm's resources for personal.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Great line. Coming up. So do you have a personal code?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I have two.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Boom. You look amazing in blue. What's going on with your hair in this episode too? It has a very sort of beautiful, disheveled vibe, especially in these later scenes in the episode. What's going on?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I appreciate that you see it that way.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I know that it probably has.

[Sarah Rafferty]

No, I can't judge cuz you liked it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I like it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And I was like, what did I ever do to those people in the hairdresser?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, no, I know this. But, like, you know, this is one of those. I'm enjoying a thing where it looks a little less perfect.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And it looks. It doesn't look messy at all. It just looks a little less perfect. And everything on the show is so perfect all the time. It had, I don't know, some texture that I really liked.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It had some movement. I like that you like that. And I'm gonna embrace it. See, again, this is why we can't judge things for ourselves. So I want to talk about something in this scene with the two of us. First of all, I was really excited that we had this beat together. I just want to play a game with you real quick.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Go.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How well do you know your friend Sarah?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I think pretty well. Go.

[Sarah Rafferty]

How well did I know this movie reference?

[Patrick J. Adams]

We have an IT department.

[Sarah Rafferty]

The computers don't run themselves. At least until Skynet goes active.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Sarah Connor. No, no.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Really bad. Did I know it at all?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Not well at all. You've never seen Terminator 2?

[Sarah Rafferty]

How well do you know your friend's.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You've never seen Terminator. You've never seen either Terminator. You've never seen a single Terminator.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Have I seen an Arnold Schwarzenegger?

[Patrick J. Adams]

You've seen an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe twins. I don't know.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I literally almost said twins. I knew if there was one, it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Was gonna be a show. I actually haven't seen that. I do think my kids watched it with not too recently, but.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wait, wait. You've never seen a Terminator movie?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Nope. I watched the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary on Netflix. I thought it was very good. Yeah, I know, but. So when I was talking about Taxi Driver, when I was talking about Godfather, now we're here we are with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Do you think I see these movies?

[Patrick J. Adams]

No, I get that you haven't.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So I spent so much time trying to figure out this reference.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What do you mean?

[Sarah Rafferty]

That I think I downloaded Terminator and tried to watch it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And how far did you get?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Not far. Yeah, I just was like, not far. You not far.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's not far.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You not far. Not far. You not far.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Not for you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So I didn't get the joke. But it didn't matter. I figured it out. And also, I legitimately felt badly because you did the Sarah Connor thing and then you did this cool gun thing. And I personally, Sarah, think that you were good. So when we both. When I go, no, and I turn away from you and I say, that's bad. I legitimately remember this day on set. I felt bad putting you down because it was, like, very bro y, like, giving you shit. Like, yeah, that sucked, but it was so not me. And I legitimately was, like, that nice young actor, Patrick, who I like so much, just did that really well, that's.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Kind of you to say. Yeah, this is an interesting thing. I have seen Terminator. I'm not an impressions guy. Like, I don't. I'm not comfortable.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, that's hard to Do I mean, Schwarzenegger's hard.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, well, I mean, but I think a lot of people have a Schwarzenegger in the chamber. You know, they throw it down and it's like a fun one for people to do. I'm like, not the guy that jumps in to do that ever. What I do like about this one is that it's not good.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Is that he's supposed to be bad.

[Patrick J. Adams]

At it, that it's bad that it doesn't work and that we embrace it. And then the joke of it is that you're like, like, yeah, that's not good. And I'm like, yeah, that's not good. And that's the funny of it. Like. And they were only going to get away with that once, you know, So I think happy to have have it happen here.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So Mike meets Benjamin, who runs the IT department and is in charge of the employee codes and oh my gosh, this is just. Oh God, this scene is so good. Tell me about this scene. Do you remember shooting it?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I remember shooting it. I remember the set being. Because it was like a whole set that I don't think we ever revisit. But they built this whole set for him, for his. He's amazing. He's so funny. He was on the show for 12 episodes. Fun fact, I just shot with him this summer.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Say more. Say more.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I did an episode of a show called the Accused for Fox in Toronto where I was playing a tech bro.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Uh huh.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, and I had a scene with my lawyer. In walks David Rial playing my lawyer.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh my gosh. No way.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, he's fantastic. He is such a pro. He's so funny. And he is, he's a big reason why I think this character showed up for 12 episodes. He's so funny. I also want to say what this is bringing up is Rick has invented some really key characters in this episode. We have Travis Tanner, we have Jimmy and Benjamin. Three characters who come back a bunch. There is something that happens when you're a writer that creates characters that then end up coming back.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What is it?

[Patrick J. Adams]

You get paid more. Like every time that character shows up you get a little bump as a writer. Yeah. So it was always like a competition. It's. I think in most writers rooms it's like competition, like who can create the character that comes back the most because you are forever attached to that character to some degree. I don't know what the amount is and you know, I don't know that it's like a life changing amount, but I think it's a real W on the board when you have characters that keep coming back.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, my gosh. That's so interesting. I love that. I'm sure they've done away with that in the recent years. Years.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. No, I don't. I'm sure we've somehow found a way to lose that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Also, fun fact, we make a reference to Battlestar Galactica in this scene, which I know you've watched every episode of. Anyway, Felix Alcala directed, I think, a couple of episodes of the reboot, and he is our director here, so I don't know if that's why it ended up being in this episode. But that's just the kind of behind the scenes stuff you're going to get here at Sidebar. You know what I'm saying? You're going to get this stuff. And then Mike calls Rachel to say that he knows who the real mole is, but she sends him to voicemail. She's currently interviewing at a rival firm.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Whoa. And then Mike and Harvey head to the Waldorf and they run into Tanner, who seemingly outmaneuvers Harvey. What did you think about this?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Love to see the Royal York again. I know we're both fans of that hotel. There is a weird phone call moment.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Did you notice?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I did.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He writes his number on the board. Harvey goes out and he walks away. Harvey goes after him, tells Mike to erase. Erase the number. So the number's on the board for mere seconds. And then Travis Sanders walking away. And then as he's walking away, his phone rings. He picks it up and says, I'm sure someone's calling me now for the settlement, picks it to his ear, and then Harvey lifts his phone to his ear and it's Harvey calling.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So what happened? Harvey either has Travis Tanner's number in his phone, programmed, and without looking at his phone, dialed it, or in the two seconds it was on the board, he put it into his phone and then kept it by his side. Or he just straight up knew his phone number already and dialed it. Either way, I have questions.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I think it's a fair and just quibble.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a nitpick.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's a fair and just quibble.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm quibbling.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. I have a third possible answer for you.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Give it to me.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Don't.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Donna. Put it into his phone before the meeting. But then he would still need to know that it was in his phone. Exactly. Like he would still need to look at it to call it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He might be ready. Who knows? He has speed dials like Jordan's speed dial 28.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yes.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Or whatever. True.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We did establish that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So maybe now that we know that the tennis playing douchebag is a formidable foe, Donna was quick enough to be like, he's number two on your phone. Like, she just anticipated his need.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Anticipated there would be a moment where he would need to call Travis Tanner.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Who knows? I'm just saying. Here's what I think really happened. I looked at the script. This scene was supposed to happen in the lobby. It was gonna be in a different location. So there would have been a moment for them to go down the elevator. So they go down the elevator, and they come out, and they're in the lobby, and this moment happened. So in that time, we would have had time to get the number into Harvey's phone. But probably on the day, they didn't have time to set up in a whole new location. So they just had them kind of walk away from the crowd and shoot it over there. But they kept that moment in also when he is writing it on the board. I went back and looked. You know, Harvey's out of the shot, so presumably. But he has a flip phone, so that would be very hard to do. Is a flip phone. No, no.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It looks like a little BlackBerry or something.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's not like a little clam. It's not a little clam. Nope. Anyway, but hey, let's just could listen.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I mean, look, I'm not. I don't want it to ruin the episode. It's just like, I got a quibble. A quibbles. Got a quibble. You know what I'm saying?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Let the quibbles quibble.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You got to get. Haven't been a bunch. You got to give me 1. Act 4. Harvey updates Jessica in her office about the case. He wants her help, but she says no, he needs to find another way. Great Line alert. You can have my faith, but you're not getting my money. I say that all the time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, I say that to you all the time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I say to Torian constantly. Like, once a day, Mike finds Rachel, tries to convince her to fight for her job at Pearson Hardman. She says, no, I like this scene. I like seeing anybody in this show in their casual wears.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I do.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And I like this outfit for me. And I don't say that a lot.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, you had, like, a weathered tee.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. It was weather. And I had a collar that popped up.

[Sarah Rafferty]

What?

[Patrick J. Adams]

My collar was popped immediately.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Not cool. I don't remember this.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm out. She's In a yoga outfit. Outfit?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, on the street.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. Yeah, she's into yoga. She's coming.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I don't know.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Looks like she might be going to yoga because she doesn't look very post yoga.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, she's got a nice glow.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay, so Harvey and Vanessa meet again at the newsstand. And she's tapped Tanner's phones and recorded an incriminating piece of evidence. But if he uses it, that would require Harvey to lie, which is something that he doesn't do. He says he will not perjure himself. What do you think about this vibe that Gabriel's playing in this scene?

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, he's got. What's going on with it?

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's really intriguing, right? It's really good. What do you think it is?

[Patrick J. Adams]

I wish he was here. I'm excited to maybe talk to him one day about the relationship with her because it feels like he's trying to. Like he says in the first scene to spy, I wouldn't be able to pretend. And he seems to really be leaning into it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And he says, moneypenny. And she says, don't call me that. And he says, why not? And she says, because she had a thing for him. And this is the other way around. And I loved that opener to it. I loved that that's who she was. So I have something to say about what I think the vibe is that he's playing. It's a different side of Harvey that we haven't seen. And I think it's because her job in his life over the years has been to protect him. Right? To get him the information that ultimately does protect him. She's just for him, and. And he's usually the person doing the protecting. That's his love language. That's the purpose of his job. But now he's on the receiving end of that protection. And it opens up a kind of vulnerability in him to receive the love language that he's usually giving. It softens him in a way that is intriguing to us. And I would have liked to have seen more of Julianne because she's amazing, because I think she can get lots of the Torres Awards.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, sure.

[Sarah Rafferty]

And she plays it so simply but so deeply.

[Patrick J. Adams]

What do we remember from when she was on the. I don't remember which episode. Again, no short term memory.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She was in the pilot.

[Patrick J. Adams]

The pilot. That was the only other one. I don't know why, but I felt like there was a moment of longing a little bit from her in the pilot. Like a. Like a longing moment, or just. Maybe it was just In a look that said she wanted it to, but she won't. Like, she knows better or something. Like, it's not totally without her. She's interested, but she also knows I'm not going to be that person for you anyway. All right, where were we?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, it says here Mike talks to Donna and shares his theory that Lewis leaked the documents. And Donna tells him he's wrong. Lewis is way too loyal for that. But there was another moment in here that you feel like you need.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You called me a prince. You called me a prince among men. Because I brought you a little coffee treat.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Oh, you are a prince among men.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I just want you to look at me like that all the time. Like, look at this hair. It's got a, like, sort of sexy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Like, post coital look.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That's the post. Is a post coital hair.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, it really is.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm into it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You know what? I was worried that it just looked messy and weird, but it's kind of great.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's a vibe.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's kind of early. 2000s tens. That's good. It's the girl.

[Patrick J. Adams]

It's the girl.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's the girl.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, my God, it's the girl.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So. So I have a question here. It seems like, where are we with Rachel? Like, is she suspended or is she fired at this point? Because it feels like Donna would be way more upset about the Rachel situation than she is, necessarily. But I think that we haven't established that Rachel and Donna are best friends yet.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, you're not really connected yet. I mean, you are. I'm sure you are, and we've seen, but it's not. You're right. Not the way you are going to be like.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah, well, in the previous scene when you come up and you say it's about Rachel, she suddenly gives you your help. Oh, what is it? Like, you need help about Rachel? I'm in, of course. But here she's like, man, I think I was missing that work on the Rachel of it all because I was still sort of saying, no. Louis is a great. Is great. He loves the firm. I mean, she's an expert on personality. She understands what makes people tick. So she's like, he wouldn't do this. Maybe it's just like, keep trying, but it doesn't feel sticky.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Seems. Seems like you're not suddenly care as much about getting to the solution.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Yeah, let's go back and reshoot that real quick.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So in Harvey's office, Harvey's trying to figure out his next step. Mike suggests considering what Harvey Wouldn't do. And that gives Harvey an aha moment.

[Patrick J. Adams]

So jackets are off. You know that. You know that we're getting down to business. Anytime you see these guys without their jackets on, it's go time.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It's go time.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Benjamin visits Mike in the bullpen. On his way out, he calls Jimmy Lewis. Mike realizes who the mole really was. I love this scene. We learn a lot about Jimmy. And I think, again, to your point, I like seeing Mike take control of the bullpen. And this is the kind of the. This is the moment where that comes to a head. So I just really enjoyed this scene. I thought the writing was fantastic. Harvey and Mike meet with. Harvey threatens to use the recording to put Tanner in prison. Tanner admits defeat and signs the settlement agreement. Harvey wins.

[Sarah Rafferty]

This scene was really good visually, to me. I noticed that it was different. Obviously, we both talked about how it comes in from behind the record albums, which must have been such a pain for them to figure out, honestly, to set that up. But then there's this framing of Travis Tanner in profile with you kind of a little out of focus in the center of the frame. But it's all about Travis Tanner, which I think is really interesting. It sets up this tension.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, this scene is beautifully shot. You're right. You've got Tanner in profile. You've got Mike sitting next to him. You've got Harvey looking at him. So you have all these dynamics at play. It's like we've spent this entire episode being outsmarted by him. And finally we get into a scene where just by doing something very simple, putting Mike in one place and Harvey in another, you can tell visually the story of Tanner suddenly being encircled and not being in control of the situation anymore, which I think is fascinating when you can do that just by where you put the people in the room and how you shoot it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. Amazing. So I think we're about to get to one of my favorite scenes.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Lewis offers Rachel her job back, but Rachel isn't satisfied until she receives a raise, the promise to pay for law school, and an apology. Rachel wins. Tell me what you thought of this.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Okay. This was the scene of the episode for me.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Oh, cool.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Tell me if you think this is right. Do you feel like Rachel is kind of embodying this, like, revenge fantasy moment that so many of us can relate to? Like, in terms of being, like, not at the top of the food chain in a job situation, in a corporate situation. And Meghan's performance is so dropped in, and it is so grounded and so not angry. It's righteous.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And what you just said about her not being angry is a really good point. It could. There's a version of this scene that's just vindictive and angry and putting him in his place in that way. And this is just like being strong. Strong versus angry.

[Sarah Rafferty]

She's right.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, she's just right. She doesn't need to be angry because she's so right. And he is so just a great counterpoint to that because he plays when you corner Lewis Litt. He plays that so perfectly. Like he doesn't know. Like, he can just play. If you gave me, as an actor, the beats in this scene to play, which is on one sentence. You are the most confident person in the entire world. Don't you? What does he say? Don't you threaten me. He's so vicious. Like, he's so sure he's the most powerful person in this room. And then literally on the next line, he's completely deflated and he's saying sorry, and he's like, just eating crow. If you gave me those two extremes to play as an actor, it would be a mess I wouldn't be able to do. I would probably try to find something in the middle for both. Right. So it didn't feel too big or. Or too crazy that I'd make that turn. She's such a consistent, brilliant, righteous force. She's on her way to becoming a lawyer. She's struggled thus far, Rachel, like, she hasn't quite had what it takes. It feels like, by virtue of what's happened here, she's more prepared than ever to go be a lawyer.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yes. And that is why, when we get to the next, where we find that Mike is waiting for her. Mike is waiting in the dark for her to be done. He is not in any way, shape or form sucking any air out of the room. This is her moment. She is going in there to save herself righteously. She does not need a hero. She's coming back in. She needs a friend to just help.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Her put the let me help you.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Out room back together. Yeah, right. There was something really feminist about this. For me, it felt like Aaron and Rick and Megan and Rick Hoffman, and you were flying a flag that I really, really appreciated.

[Patrick J. Adams]

If what you're saying is that Mike Ross is a feminist icon, I couldn't agree more. And I think, you know, it's important.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That I do not want to gender these things all the time. But for me, I just see it from that perspective. Of course, from my own we always see things from our own experience.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Right. Tell me what. What Mi had said.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So he said, okay, I just rewatched that scene. I don't 100% remember all the writing of it, but no doubt the final pass was Aaron and me. I do remember we wanted Rachel to get more than just an apology. I had a boss once named Matt Nix who always emphasized that two people in a scene need to each want something. It's writing 101 in some respects, but it's also helpful to remember. So her just getting an apology isn't her wanting something from Lewis. And it felt like she needed to stand up for herself and show him she's not going to get pushed around by him. Aaron, I'm pretty sure, thought of the and all the shit you've pulled line. And this was the second time we, the writers, alluded to something in the past that the audience doesn't know about. That's a big Aaron thing, and I think it's great. And it became a signature part of the show. But back to the scene. I have a memory of Erin and myself doing the final pass and making sure that she didn't budge. It was very satisfying. We always wanted to make sure she was strong and held her ground. Another tiny fun fact, though, was that Rick Hoffman, who is a genius, did one take where he couldn't say I'm sorry. He said, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm sorry. So, okay, so he.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Perfect.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I'm not gonna pretend to try to do it. Like, I'm literally just reading it as it is. This is me just reading what's here in my text. This episode was being edited while Aaron was in Toronto shooting the finale. And because of the tight turnaround, I was helping out in the edit bay alongside Jean Klein. Anyway, we had that take in the cut the first time around, and Aaron wasn't totally sure about it, or that's what I thought. And so we took it out and sent it to the network. And then when Aaron saw we'd taken it out, he was like, wait, where's the take where he can't say it? I said, I thought you wanted it out. And he said, no, he did actually really like it. But then he felt like we couldn't add it back in because we had already gotten to the network with it. So I still mourn that take because it was so genius. It was a miscommunication or Aaron changed his mind. So that is living with him still. Rick Maraghi is thinking about a Rick Hoffman moment that didn't make the cut based on a miscommunication. But. But here's the silver lining. We get the threaten me moment, so let's play that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

And one more thing.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You need to apologize to me right now, or I'm gonna file a lawsuit against you first thing in the morning.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You're right.

[D]

I should have apologized.

[Patrick J. Adams]

But don't you threaten me. I follow procedure to the letter. And you have no basis for a lawsuit. No, I don't.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Not about this. But if you don't think I have a basis for all the shit you've pulled over the years I've been here, think again.

[Patrick J. Adams]

I'm sorry. Okay.

[Sarah Rafferty]

It is informed by that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah, it's still there.

[Sarah Rafferty]

He can't get. It's hard. He's choking.

[Patrick J. Adams]

He's never said the word. He doesn't know how to say it. Yeah, yeah, it's great.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So it is a great take. I'm sure Rick Kaufman doesn't have a bad take, so. Rick Maragi. They're all good. But that is some fun inside baseball to know that you're still feeling it.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You still have it.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Maybe we can see that.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Release the maragi. Cut.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah.

[Patrick J. Adams]

All right. And then. Yeah, and then our final scene was the one you mentioned, where they're together in the dark office unpacking. And I like that the scene's quiet and nothing is said. And there's not any longing looks. No, it's not about them. It's just about. About two people being together.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Because that would really diminish what she just did.

[Patrick J. Adams]

That would make it somehow the relationship has nothing to do with that.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Yeah. This is about her journey in a different way.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Yeah.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Well, there we go. That's the end of the episode.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Wow. Big one. Honorable mentions. You know, I think there's an embarrassment of riches here. We've got Rick Maraghi. We've got some of Felix Alcala's amazing camera work. We have David Rial, we have Pooch Hall. We have Eric close. We got the bullpen boys getting feisty. Rachel Zane's coming in hot. Donna Paulson's playing the blues. Harvey on his heels. Nice, uncomplicated case that I could easily follow because my brain doesn't work properly. But it still took some great twists and turns. So a lot of things to celebrate in Undefeated. What about you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

I agree with everything that you said, and I think there's one unsung hero here, which is Vincent Laresca. He played Kenny and he really got me. I realized that I just totally bought him in that part. And he was so believable that he was in this heinous situation that I didn't ever really watch his acting. I didn't comment on his acting. We know. That's what I do. I love actors. I love watching performances. This is what we're doing, what we're having so much fun doing. And you think about how we were looking at the choices that David Riel made, for example, or this choice that we just talked about with Rick, but with Vincent, I was never watching that. I was just taken. And that was really a beautiful thing.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Good point.

[Sarah Rafferty]

So shout out to him.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Great. What about a goddamn? How many goddamns do we get in this episode? Anything jump out of you?

[Sarah Rafferty]

Zero.

[Patrick J. Adams]

You're going zero. I'll go Zaga zero two.

[Sarah Rafferty]

You're not allowed to.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, I'll go one.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Patrick, you're on a roll. There was one goddamn.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Okay, that's one. What is that? Our grand toe.

[Sarah Rafferty]

I want to say 19. I am the fill in Kristen for today though, so she can confirm that later.

[Patrick J. Adams]

We do want to send our love out to Kristen. She wasn't able to be here today and we feel her absence. Kristen, you're out in the world. Kiki, be well. We'll see you soon. Thank you for filling in, Kimmy.

[Sarah Rafferty]

That was case closed on Undefeated.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Thanks so much for listening guys and we will see you next week.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Bye. As always, we want to hear from all of you. If you have questions, thoughts or ideas, please send your emails to sidebar podcasteriusxm.com and if you want to record an audio clip of the question, go for it. We would love to play it on the show.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Make sure to rate, review and subscribe. It is such a great and important way for you to support the show.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Sidebar is produced by Sarah Rafferty, Patrick J. Adams and SiriusXM Media.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Our senior bridge producer is Kimmy Gregory and our producer and researcher is Kristen Schrader.

[Sarah Rafferty]

Our sound engineer is Alex Gonzalez and our music is by Brendan Burns.

[Patrick J. Adams]

Our executive producers are Cody Fisher and Colin Anderson.

[C]

Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of their national red tag sales event going on right now through January 19th. Stop by any of their participating communities and find select red tag homes at Incredible Pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the red tag sales event going on right now. Discover the Dr. Horton [e-mail] that's Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton America's builder and equal Housing Opportunity Builder.

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