Bumps In The Night

Summary

---

Episode Summary: "Bumps In The Night"

Podcast: Sightings (REVERB | QCODE)
Episode Date: October 13, 2025
Hosts: McLeod Andrews & Brian Sigley

---

Overview

This haunting episode of Sightings delves into the terrifying phenomenon of sleep paralysis and the global folklore surrounding "sleep entities," focusing specifically on the ominous figure known as the "Hat Man." Inspired by real accounts and internet lore, the show blends a chilling dramatized story with a thoughtful, research-driven discussion on the intersection of supernatural myth and neurological reality. Prepare for an in-depth journey from folklore to the science of nightmares—and the unnerving question: Are the shadowy figures we see at night just our brains' creations, or something else entirely?

---

Key Episode Segments & Discussion Points

1. Dramatic Story: "Marcus and the Hat Man"

[04:31–27:22]

• Protagonist: Marcus, a recently single musician who just moved to the city, begins documenting his disturbing experiences via voice memos.
• Key Experiences:
  • Sleep Paralysis: Marcus wakes unable to move, feeling watched ([04:36]). He describes "an overwhelming feeling I was being watched...pressure in the air."

    “It wasn't just fear... it was like dread. Pure dread. Like it had been injected straight into my veins.” — Marcus ([06:05])

  • The Shuffling and the Shadow: Auditory and visual hallucinations escalate—shuffling noises, peripheral shadows, and eventually, a tall, impossibly dark figure appearing in his doorway and moving closer each night.
  • Physical Sensations: Marcus reports chest pressure, a humming sensation, smells of dust and decay, and a sense of suffocation, all classic symptoms of sleep paralysis with hallucinations.
  • Online Research & Paranoia: He discovers similar stories online—many referencing a "Hat Man" who wears a brimmed hat and sometimes appears with shadowy companions.

    “A number of people who encounter these things also recall the same kind of smell... like this dusty, sweaty odor.” — Brian Sigley ([33:10])

  • Descent into Panic: Exhaustion drives him to flee his apartment and attempt to livestream or record proof. The encounters culminate in a motel bathroom, with the entity attempting to break in.

    “My phone's at 4%... these walls must be concrete, or whatever's out there doesn't want me to call for help. That's crazy, isn't it? I sound crazy and I know it. Maybe I am crazy. I don't know. But I just need some help right now.” — Marcus ([25:24])

• Climactic Confrontation: Marcus prepares to open the door to capture footage:

  “I’m gonna open the door, I’m gonna point my camera at whatever’s out there, and then I’m just gonna run...” — Marcus ([26:39–27:18])

• Cliffhanger Ending: The whispers stop, Marcus opens the door, the entity is “right there, looking right at” him.

---

2. Discussion: Sleep Entities, Science, and Folklore

[28:36–44:17]

Personal Accounts

• McLeod: Recounts a single childhood episode of sleep paralysis without entity sighting.
• Brian: Describes once waking up and seeing a being at the foot of his bed, emphasizing the real fear and trauma such events can cause.

Origins and Science

• Historical Records:
  • Oldest written references: 10th-century Persia; "Incubus" in 1664 Holland ([31:19]).
  • "Maras" (Norse), "Jinn" (Middle Eastern), "Old Hag" (Newfoundland)—different cultures, same recurring themes.
• Scientific Explanation:
  • REM Sleep Paralysis: Body disables movement to prevent acting out dreams; the mind can wake before the body “unlocks” ([31:33]).
  • Hallucinations: Half-waking state may cause vivid sensory experiences, including the feeling of a malignant presence.

    “During that time, our body naturally paralyzes itself so that we don't act out what's happening in our dreams. But... people can wake up... their body just didn't get the memo...” — Brian ([31:32])

Universality and Cultural Projection

• The ubiquity of shadowy sleep entities across time and cultures prompts the question:

  “If it's so universal and multiple cultures have variations on this, it's possible that indicates it's just a natural, biological human phenomenon that gets described... through the lens of different cultures.” — McLeod ([36:21])

The "Hat Man" Phenomenon

• Modern Internet Lore:
  • Hat Man sightings skyrocketed in the 2000s, popularized by radio shows like Coast to Coast AM and the spread of personal accounts online ([34:50]).
  • Some analogues to older legends, such as the jinn which is “often described as wearing a hat.” ([35:10])
  • Possible influence of pop culture, especially the Nightmare on Elm Street series with its iconic Freddy Krueger character.

    “Honestly, I have to admit, I don't think I've ever seen any of these movies. But... one of the most distincting features of Freddy Krueger is the fedora that he wears. So the fedora is the Hat Man.” — Brian ([40:45])

The Mysterious Southeast Asian Syndrome

• 1980s: Over a hundred healthy Hmong men in the U.S. died in their sleep, with folklore attributing the deaths to an evil "night spirit." CDC found some had heart abnormalities, but no clear cause for the mass deaths ([37:32]).

  “Supernatural explanations aside, that's terrifying.” — McLeod ([38:31])

Open Questions and Community Engagement

• Are these shared hallucinations purely biological, or is there something more?

  “We have all these people... in various points in history who all kind of have the same basic story or experience. What do you make of that?” — Brian ([35:21])

• Listeners are encouraged to share their own "Bumps in the Night" stories via Instagram or Spotify comments.

---

3. Light-Hearted Finale: Halloween and Candy

[42:31–44:17]

• McLeod reflects on Halloween as a community holiday, emphasizing its unique role in bringing neighbors together.

  “Halloween is like the one holiday where you go out and you share with strangers, where you go and meet your neighbors and you experience generosity from all your neighbors.” — McLeod ([43:03])

• The hosts confess their love for Halloween candy, especially Reese’s ([43:34]).

• Next Episode Tease: The investigation will turn to a “small town in New York” for the ultimate Halloween story.

---

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Nothing is scarier than waking up in the middle of the night unable to move and realizing you're not alone in your bedroom.”
  — Brian ([02:11])

• “That feeling, though, it wasn't just fear... this was like dread. Pure dread. Like it had been injected straight into my veins.”
  — Marcus ([06:05])

• “First night... the figure was at the foot of my bed... Second night, beside the bed... and tonight it was right next to me... and I felt this pressure on my chest, like real physical pressure...”
  — Marcus ([10:47])

• “The Hat Man himself is a pretty modern entity... kind of popped up in the 2000s... whether or not that's Internet lore, we might know. But... the Djinn... is often described as wearing a hat.”
  — Brian ([34:52–35:10])

• “If it’s so universal and multiple cultures have variations on this, it’s possible that indicates it’s just a natural, biological human phenomenon that gets described... through different cultural lenses.”
  — McLeod ([36:21])

• “But chew on this for a moment... in the 1980s... a bunch of healthy men who just started dying in their sleep... there was a disproportionate number of them that had some kind of syndrome that caused abnormal heart rhythms. But... no explanation for why dozens and dozens... were just dying at night... all she heard were stories about an entity... something called a dachau, which apparently in Hmong means night spirit.”
  — Brian ([37:31])

---

Tone & Delivery

• The episode deftly balances immersive, chilling storytelling (dramatized first-person account) with scientific context, folklore analysis, and good-natured hosts’ banter.
• While informative, the tone remains unsettling, reflective, and occasionally playful—especially in moments of comic relief and nostalgic talk about Halloween traditions.

---

Episode Takeaways

• Sleep paralysis is a widespread, well-documented neurophysiological phenomenon, but its overlap with vivid, consistent hallucinations and frightening folklore across cultures keeps it firmly in the realm of supernatural intrigue.
• The "Hat Man" is a particularly modern manifestation—possibly Internet-fueled, possibly evolving from far older archetypes.
• Whether understood scientifically or as a genuine encounter with darkness, the experience is terrifyingly real for those who suffer it.
• Audience engagement is encouraged: Do you have a sleep entity story? Share it with the hosts for possible discussion.

---

Next Week

Look forward to Sightings’ “ultimate Halloween episode”—a deep dive into the lore of a “small town in New York” with a mysterious and historic story, perfect for the season.

---

Transcript

[Brian Sigley]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

[McLeod Andrews]

When did making plans get this complicated?

[Brian Sigley]

It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the.

[McLeod Andrews]

Secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send.

[Brian Sigley]

Event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by Netflix. Everyone is telling her she dreamt it.

[McLeod Andrews]

But in the woman in cabin 10.

[Brian Sigley]

Lo Blacklock is determined to uncover the truth in the gripping new thriller coming to Netflix October 10th. Keira Knightley plays a journalist aboard a.

[McLeod Andrews]

Luxury yacht who witnesses a crime she can't unsee.

[Brian Sigley]

Adapted from Ruth Ware's best selling novel, directed by Simon Stone. Watch the woman in cabin 10 now only on Netflix.

[McLeod Andrews]

When we close our eyes at night, we expect rest, safety, the comfort of slipping into dreams. But what happens when those dreams bleed into reality? What if in the vulnerable space between sleep and waking, something else is waiting? Something ancient, patient, and watching from the shadows right at the edge of your bed. Welcome to Sightings, the series that takes you inside the world's most mysterious supernatural events. Each episode brings you a thrilling story that puts you at the center of the action, followed by a discussion that dives into the accounts that inspired the story and our takes on them. I'm McLeod.

[Brian Sigley]

And I'm Brian. And we are in the heart of spooky seasons. So I wanted to find one of the scariest stories I possibly could for this episode. And McLeod, what is scarier than waking up in the middle of the night unable to move and realizing you're not alone in your bedroom? Nothing. I'm out.

[McLeod Andrews]

I'm not doing this episode. Sorry.

[Brian Sigley]

If you just stay awake, McCloud, I guarantee you'll be fine.

[McLeod Andrews]

Okay, but listeners, if you're braver than me, can you survive a night full of terrors? Find out on this episode of Sightings.

[Brian Sigley]

All right, skeptical geckos, before we dive into the story, we wanted to talk about our favorite pants company.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, and I'm so excited.

[Brian Sigley]

If you're a longtime listener to the show, you know how much we Love the perfect gene. And believe me when I say they are perfect for fall. You know you're crouching at the pumpkin patch. So much crouching, you're eating those Thanksgiving meals. You need jeans that don't suffocate your waistline.

[McLeod Andrews]

I love my perfect jeans. They fit great. Plus they have four way stretch.

[Brian Sigley]

And with a ton of fits, they can be your perfect pair too. Trust me, I didn't think jeans could be perfect, but these are. They really are. I wear mine pretty much every day.

[McLeod Andrews]

So, guys, I am under contract to tell you that it's time to stop crushing your balls in uncomfortable jeans by going to the PerfectGene NYC. And right now, Sightings listeners get 15% off your first order, plus free shipping, free returns, and free exchanges. When you use code SIGHTINGS15 at checkout, that's 15% off for new customers at ThePerfectGene NYC with promo code SIGHTINGS15.

[Brian Sigley]

And after your purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show. Tell them that we sent you sightings. Sent you.

[McLeod Andrews]

So forget your khakis and get the perfect gene today. Do it.

[Brian Sigley]

And now onto the story.

[McLeod Andrews]

Okay, I've never used this voice memo app on my phone, but the little wavy forms are moving, so looks good. Cool. I feel like I'm doing like a dating profile. Hi, I'm Marcus. I'm 32, a musician, recently single, new to the city, poor as dirt. And yeah, I just sunk about everything I had into the deposit in first month's rent on this apartment. A real catch. I don't usually talk to my phone at. Oh gosh, what is it? 3:47am but something weird happened just now and I don't know if it's a medical thing or a sleep thing or a screwed up dream thing or what, but my buddy Jake said that he had some issues a while back kind of like this, and he kept voice memos to track patterns or to process or whatever. And yeah, I. I definitely need to process. So I Woke up maybe 10 minutes ago, just boom, wide awake. But the thing was, I couldn't move, like, at all. Not a finger, not a toe, Nothing except my eyes. And I'm lying there and my room has these big old windows and the moon's almost full, so I mean, I could see everything perfectly. But again, I couldn't move, which was weird. So as I'm lying there trying to will my body to do something, I got this. I don't know, I got this overwhelming feeling I was being watched. It's hard to describe, I guess you could say it was like this pressure in the air or something. But a definite feeling that I was very much not alone. And I mean, I tried to rationalize it. Maybe I was just dreaming or something. But then there was this sound and it. Well, it was this shuffling sound, almost soft, light fabric dragging on the floor, maybe like somebody in some bunny slippers creeping around my room. And my eyes were mo. They were still the only things that I could move. But I mean, there was nothing there. Nothing I could see anyway. But then. And this is where it all gets really messed up. I caught something in my peripheral vision. It was by the doorway to the bedroom. Like a super dark shadow, I think. But when I moved my eyes to look at it, there was just an empty door. Kind of like floaters in your eyes. You try and look at them, but they just keep dancing away as you try to catch them. That feeling, though, it wasn't just fear. I mean, I've been scared before, but this was like dread. Pure dread. Like it had been injected straight into my veins. And then all of a sudden, there it was. I could move again. I sat up gasping and I ran to the door. Checked the apartment. Nothing. Everything was locked. Everything was fine. But I still have that feeling. And yeah, I know it doesn't make any sense. Maybe it was just sleep paralysis. I've heard of that. I guess. Jake mentioned it once. He heard about it on some podcast. He said it's where your body's still in sleep mode, but your brain wakes up and you hallucinate. It's never happened to me before, but I guess there's a first time for everything. Hopefully the last. I don't know, maybe just stress from the move or sleeping alone after years with someone next to me. That's right, ladies. I'm a sad sack who just got dumped. I bet that's it. It's. Wait, there's something. There it is. That's shuffling. I don't know.

[Brian Sigley]

Nothing.

[McLeod Andrews]

I didn't see anything. Just this whole building settling, I guess. I hope this is stupid. Just a one time thing. I just need to sleep, that's all. Okay, so it wasn't a one time thing. It's. Sorry. Just need to catch my breath. It's 4:17am A couple nights since my last voice memo. And it happened again tonight. Same thing. Woke up paralyzed with that same feeling of being watched. But this time, when I heard that shuffling and I heard it, I know I did try to really listen instead of. Look, it wasn't footsteps. It Wasn't. Mice were settling. Honestly, it was like I was like nothing I could possibly identify with something else. And I was lying there, trying to will my body to move again when I saw that same shadow out of the corner of my eye. But this time, this time when I looked to the doorway, there was something there. A figure. Tall. Standing right in my doorway. Like, had to be like 7ft tall, 8ft tall. I don't know. And it was dark. Not like shadows are dark. This was darker than that. Like the shape of a person made out of nothing. And even though I couldn't make anything out other than the just pure black, I knew it was watching me. Didn't see any eyes, but I just knew. I felt it watching me. And I tried to scream. I tried so hard to scream, to move, to do anything. But I had to just lay there while this thing stood there watching. And then it took one big step forward toward my bed. And then, thank the ever loving whatever, it just vanished. And like snapping out of a trance, I could suddenly move again. And I sat up so fast I almost fell out of bed. I've been trying to find a way to explain this. I know sleep paralysis can cause hallucinations. I looked it up. But who? Boy, this felt so real. And that thing, that shadow thing, it was so clear, like, so defined. Not like a dream at all. I've had dreams all my life. This was not that. I don't know, maybe I should just start sleeping with the lights on. Or maybe I should find somewhere else to stay. But I just moved here. I have no friends, no money. Holler at me, girls. Shit. Oh, I'm being ridiculous. There's nothing in my apartment. Or, shit, what if there is? What up? It's your boy Marcus. It's still happening. Three more nights now. Same thing every time I wake up. Paralyzed. But that figure. It's getting closer. First night after my last memo, I woke up and it was at the foot of my bed. Just standing there. That same crazy, impossible darkness. Same feeling of dread. The second night, it was beside the bed, halfway between the head and foot. And I could smell was something so strange, like dust or opening a room that's been closed for decades. And tonight it was right next to me. Like, right there. Right by my head, looming over me. And even though I was right next to it, I still couldn't make out any details at all. Not one. And then it leaned closer to me, like it was examining me or like it wanted to whisper something in my ear. And I felt this pressure on My chest, like real physical pressure, like something, it just sat on me. And I felt this weird, like, low frequency hum that rattled through me and made my teeth ache. And I just. I couldn't breathe. And I seriously thought I was going to die. And then just all of a sudden, it stopped. The thing vanished. I could move again, and I gasped for air like I'd been drowning. So, yeah, great. New life in the city. Oh. I set up my recording mics to see if I could catch any sounds in the night, but nothing. None of that shuffling that I hear or footsteps or anything. Just silence or, I mean, you know, normal city sounds. And then my panicked breathing. When I wake up, I know how this will sound to anybody who ever listens to this. Hopefully no one ever. But I found others online who have been experiencing something similar. Mostly Reddit people. But I mean it when I say their stories line up almost exactly with mine. Shadow figure getting closer. Except most of them say they can see the shape of a hat on the thing's head. I don't know, it's weirdly spooky. A hat. Such a weird detail. That must be why they all took to calling it the Hat Man. I don't. I don't think mine has a hat, though. I mean, I hope mine doesn't. I don't know why that makes it so much scarier, because, I mean, these people who have had these encounters, they start. They start off confused and scared, just like me, but then they get more desperate, fragmented, and then. And then they just stop posting. Like, like they vanished or died or. I don't know. Oh, what the hell? That sounded like it came from under my bed, but nope, I'm not looking. I'm not looking. I'm not freaking looking. I'm counting to three and then I'm running and I don't know if I'm ever coming back and I don't care. So. 1, 2, 3. Bye, limu emu and Doug. Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Brian Sigley]

Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[McLeod Andrews]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company Excludes Massachusetts.

[Brian Sigley]

The holidays have arrived at the Home.

[McLeod Andrews]

Depot and we're here to help bring the excitement with decor for every part of your home.

[Brian Sigley]

Check out our wide assortment of easy.

[McLeod Andrews]

To assemble pre lit trees so you.

[Brian Sigley]

Can spend less time setting up and more time celebrating. And bring your holiday spirit outdoors with.

[McLeod Andrews]

Unique decor, like one of our Santa inflatables.

[Brian Sigley]

Whatever your style, find the right pieces at the right prices this holiday season.

[McLeod Andrews]

At the Home Depot. @blinds.com it's not just about window treatments. It's about you.

[Brian Sigley]

Your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the.

[McLeod Andrews]

Confidence of knowing it's done right. From free expert design help to our.

[Brian Sigley]

100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows. [e-mail], the only thing we treat better.

[McLeod Andrews]

Than windows is is you.

[Brian Sigley]

Visit blinds.com now for up to 45% off with minimum purchase plus a professional measure at no cost.

[McLeod Andrews]

Rules and restrictions apply. Testing, testing. One, two, three. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. It's 3:33am and I'm in my car, just sitting in the dark in some convenience store parking lot. And I. God, I don't even. I don't even know how many days it's been. Three, four times. All just mushed together, blurred, you know what I mean? Like when you've just been up for so dang, dang, dang, dang long. I've been awake this whole time. I think, oh, my eyes are burning and they're crusty and. Oh, right. What happened? I left the apartment that night last time I talked to this, my phone and you, whoever, and I just drove around the city until the sun came up. And then I drove some more and as the sun started going down again, I thought about a hotel, but I can't. I've got like $47 in my checking account until my next gig Friday, if I can even play. I mean, my hands keep shaking. So I went back to the apartment. I mean, and I went back because where else am I gonna go? But I didn't let myself sleep. So I've just been pounding coffee and energy drinks and I started watching Friends from the very, very beginning. And I'm on season eight now, so that' three days, right? Four. Yeah, four. Whoa. Point is, Rachel is pregnant now and everything else is blurring. But I was awake, dammit, I was awake. And I know I was awake because it happened again. And I wasn't even sleeping. I was on the couch, lights on, TV going. And I saw it. Movement in the kitchen, just this shape. My old friend standing there between the fridge and counter, standing there, watching me. And I tried to get up and run, but I couldn't move. I mean, I couldn't move even though I was awake. And. Yeah, so I guess this wasn't sleep paralysis because I was awake and Ross was saying something about dinosaurs and I knew I was there, but my body just stopped, like it had been switched off. And then the thing stepped out of the kitchen all slow and stuff. And this time with the lights on, I could see its outline better. Like the shape of it, you know? And there was definitely this ridge around the head, like. Like a brim. Yeah. A hat. He was wearing a hat. And it made it so much worse. I'm serious. Why the hat? Why does it make it so much worse? I've been awake too long and. Yeah, so this thing, he just kept moving until it was right next to the couch, right next to me. And I could smell that stupid same dust smell, but like, worse. Like rotten or old sweat, just gross, gross, gross. And then it reached out and its arm was so long, like impossible. And it pointed at me. And all that dread I've been feeling, that wasn't just a feeling anymore. It was like a message, like a warning. And even though it wasn't in words, I knew what it was saying. And it was saying, buddy, this is going to get worse. And then it was gone. And I could suddenly move again. And I ran. I ran right to my car. And I've been here since. Afraid to go back, afraid to even close my eyes. Because, you know, what if. I mean, what if it can find me? What if running doesn't matter? I. Oh, God. I just keep thinking about those Reddit posts. The people who just stopped posting, stopped everything. Maybe.

[Brian Sigley]

Shit.

[McLeod Andrews]

My phone's starting to run low on battery and I would go home and charge it, but I can't. And the dude in the convenience store doesn't have the right dongle or whatever to fit my phone, so. Well, I'm not going back. Maybe I'll just sleep in the car, just for a few hours, just until the sun comes up. Because I should not drive like this. Oh, my God. What if it doesn't matter? What if daylight doesn't mean anything to it? What if it's already too late? It's. God, I don't even know what time it is. I don't think it matters. My phone says 3:55am but time isn't. Whatever, it's not working right anymore. I'm in a motel bathroom. Starlight inn off Route 9 or 72. I don't know, I don't care. But, yeah, I caved. The room's $42 a night. Which means I have not a lot left. But after my last recording, I sat in the parking lot until security knocked on my window. And even though I know I was awake, I didn't see them coming. So I drove to another lot, then another. But the exhaustion, it was just. Let's just say I wasn't in tip top shape. So I came here, went to an atm, pulled it all, figuring a terrible motel bed was better than my car. So, so wrong. I must have passed out the second I hit the mattress. Slept for what, hours? It was light when I went down, but it's dark now, so of course I woke up to find it standing over me. Not across the room or at the foot of my bed, but right there. Right over me. Its face, or. I don't know, that void where a face should be, was literally inches from mine. It was so close, I could feel the cold radiating off of it like an open freezer. But this time, I wasn't paralyzed. I don't know why. Maybe its powers were stronger in the apartment. But whatever the reason, I rolled sideways, fell off the bed and ran like hell towards the nearest door. And I knew the thing was following me faster than I'd seen it move before. But I made it through the door and slammed it shut. And I realized I hadn't gone through the main door. I'd gone through a bathroom door. Stupid bathroom. And I was stuck. And I am stuck. And bang. It was pounding in the door, rattling the handle. Bang. Just bang, bang, bang. Too many to count. Like it was trying to break through until nothing. That was 20 minutes ago. Maybe. Maybe 30. But I can still hear it out there, that shuffling sound. I hear you. It's moving around the room and just touching all my stuff, I guess. And there's something else now. Whispers like it brought a buddy along, but I can't make out the words. Maybe it's just. Maybe it's just the sound my brain makes. I don't know. My phone was luckily in my pocket when I ran, but its battery is at 4% and I've got no signal. These walls must be concrete. Or whatever's out there doesn't want me to call for help. That's crazy, isn't it? I sound crazy and I know it. Maybe I am crazy. I don't know. But I just need some help right now. I know what I saw. I just need proof. Yeah, proof. Otherwise, I'm just an insane dude laying in the bathtub talking to his phone at 4 in the morning. So I've been on video. Because if I can record this thing, then I know it's not in my head. So I need a plan. A plan. The plan. Okay. Okay. I'm.

[Brian Sigley]

I'm.

[McLeod Andrews]

I'm gonna open the door, I'm gonna point my camera at whatever's out there, and then I'm just gonna run. And depending on what the camera gets, determines what. What. What. What happens next. I don't know. Whoa, wait. The whisper stopped. It's. Is that a bad thing? Okay, I'm getting up. Here's the doorknob. Oh, God.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, God.

[McLeod Andrews]

It's right there. It's looking right at.

[Brian Sigley]

Sightings will be back just after this. Hello, everyone. I am EM Schultz. And I'm Christine Schieber. And we are the host of the Scariest Podcast. It's called. And that's why we drink. Because it's all about the many reasons the world gives us to drink. I handle all of the paranormal and all the spooky and all the aliens and all the cryptids, and Cristine handles everything that's real and scary. There's a little something for everybody on our podcast, but in case you like us even more than just wanting to listen to us, you can read books that we have written. We wrote two whole books. If you like ghosts, if you like true crime, if you like comedy, if you like drinking, and if you like other people doing all those things as well, you can listen to us blab on forever. Yeah, we'll never leave you. We'll always find you. So don't worry, you'll never really escape our grasp. Hey, that was scarier than I meant it to be. Anyway, find us on your favorite podcast listening platform, wherever you listen to podcasts, and you can see any of the spooky and also probably troubling things we're doing on Instagram and Facebook, Facebook, etc, at atwwdpodcast.

[McLeod Andrews]

Welcome back to Sightings, everybody.

[Brian Sigley]

Have you not slept?

[McLeod Andrews]

I am exhausted, Brian. Just the idea of this has terrified me and exhausted me. I don't even know where to begin. There's so much because this is a thing, sleep entities, sleep paralysis, that I think most of us are probably aware of or have heard something about this before. And I know there's, like, ancient examples of demons who haunt people's sleep, but also just. I think a lot of us have probably experienced something in the vein of this. All of us sleep, all of us dream, all of us have questioned whether we're fully awake and kind of awoken into a dream. I know, I've had an experience only once of sleep paralysis.

[Brian Sigley]

Did anything happen during it?

[McLeod Andrews]

No, I was just. I was like on a road trip. I was in middle school. I think I was like 13 or something. And we were on a road trip and stopped at a rest stop for, I don't know, to rest. And I did. I could hear everybody returning to the car and I knew that it was time to wake up and, like, I could hear everybody, but I just couldn't move. I couldn't do it. I couldn't, like, I couldn't control my body. Like, I just.

[Brian Sigley]

And I'm sure that's terrifying.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, it wasn't great. How about you? Have you. Have you ever had a sleep paralysis experience?

[Brian Sigley]

I've not had sleep paralysis, but I did wake up one night and there was something sitting at the foot of my bed.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh, wow. But you could move. What did you do?

[Brian Sigley]

I freaked out and tried to scream and I couldn't really scream. And then, you know, I think I looked away and I looked back and it wasn't there anymore. So it might have been like a residual dream kind of scape happening. Right. But it was definitely a little bit traumatizing. And I, you know, I had a nightlight for a while.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, I don't blame you. Oh, so this. Is this a real account or is it based on somebody's specific account?

[Brian Sigley]

No, I kind of amalgamated a whole bunch of different accounts of people who have experienced sleep paralysis, experienced the hat man, which we're going to talk about, and also experienced just other sleep entities, because there's a whole crowd of them out there, basically, who allegedly appear when you're asleep.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah.

[Brian Sigley]

And, you know, I really wanted to make it really visceral and raw for this particular story.

[McLeod Andrews]

Well, you definitely accomplished that.

[Brian Sigley]

So, yeah, as you mentioned already, like, sleep paralysis and these sleep entities in general are not a new thing. It's very real. And it was first written about, at least that we've discovered in the 10th century in Persia. And then again, it was the next mention of it that we found is in 1664 by this Dutch physician who. He didn't call it sleep paralysis. That didn't become a thing until like the 20th century. But he called it incubus.

[McLeod Andrews]

Okay.

[Brian Sigley]

Which I guess means the nightmare, not.

[McLeod Andrews]

The band, which is not the band.

[Brian Sigley]

Yes. But moving to the modern day, you know, modern day science, you know, when they first realized this was kind of a thing, they thought it might be the side effect of narcolepsy.

[McLeod Andrews]

Right.

[Brian Sigley]

But studies suggest that some 30% of people suffer from sleep paralysis at least once during their lives.

[McLeod Andrews]

I'm in that. I'm in that, I guess.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah, yeah. I'm not, but I. I'm in the other percent that experiences an entity sleeping, sitting on their bed. Yeah, but. But scientifically, I guess, or sleep wise, what's happening is this. So during sleep, we go through a bunch of different stages, and one of those is REM sleep, which is rapid eye movement sleep. And that's the sleep where our brain is most active in producing dreams, basically. And during that time, our body naturally paralyzes itself so that we don't act out what's happening in our dreams, basically. But every once in a while, people can wake up and even though they're conscious, their body just didn't get the memo and they get stuck in this paralysis mode, basically. Alternately, I guess you can kind of wake up and be halfway between sleep and waking and have these wild hallucinations.

[McLeod Andrews]

Sure.

[Brian Sigley]

Which might explain what we're dealing with here. It might not. We'll see. But this is where it gets really weird. So we've established that this happens to a lot of people, but for at least a handful of them, they see shadowy figures while they're frozen in bed. And usually these figures take on, no matter the culture, no matter the time period, they take on the same basic gist. They're usually pitch black, shadowy, almost kind of fuzzy. You can't make out the details on them. And a number of people who encounter these things also recall the same kind of smell, which is like this dusty, sweaty odor. And this experience of seeing this thing either in the corner of their vision, or it's moving closer to them, or it's sitting at the foot of their bed, or it's looming right over them. This goes on until they're able to move their body in some way, and then all of it suddenly vanishes. So whatever this thing is, it seems to be global, it seems to be ancient, and it has a whole lot of names.

[McLeod Andrews]

When did the fedora come into play?

[Brian Sigley]

We'll get there. That's a distinctly modern phenomena. But. But heading back, way back in time, we've got ancient stories of the Succubus and the Incubus. Those are nocturnal spirits that do things to men and women that we won't go into on this show. Oh, sure, because we're a family podcast. But the old Norse spoke of a demon called the Mara, which was said to ride on people's chests in the night and cause bad dreams. And interestingly the Mara is half of the old German word nachtmar, which means nightmare. In other kind of more Middle Eastern cultures, it's a jinn.

[McLeod Andrews]

Right.

[Brian Sigley]

There's also a relatively more modern famous one from Newfoundland, Canada, which is called the Old Hag. It attacks people in their sleep, and it tries to smother them, usually by, like, people experiencing this intense pressure on their chest. They can't breathe, or they can feel hands, like, clasping around their necks.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yikes.

[Brian Sigley]

And then, of course, we have the more modern accounts, like the Hat man, which you just asked about. And if one hatman isn't scary enough, oftentimes it is flanked by two shadow companions.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh, good. Oh, good.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah. So the Hat man himself is a pretty modern entity. It seems like he kind of popped up in the 2000s, kind of. So whether or not that's kind of Internet lore, we might know. But it is interesting to note that the Djinn that I mentioned is often described as wearing a hat.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh.

[Brian Sigley]

And apparently, if you can eventually move and snatch the hat away from him, you win a reward.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh, I like the game show aspect of this horrifying tale. That's much nicer. I like this version.

[Brian Sigley]

They make it fun. Yes. Yes, let's. So I guess the point is, like, these things are everywhere in human history, and generally speaking, they have a lot of similarities. Kind of dark, shadowy figures, generally, like, sitting on your chest, a feeling of dread suffocating you. Things like that. Which, for me, raises a pretty big question, which is, like, we have all these people isolated from one another in various points in history who all kind of have the same basic story or experience. What do you make of that?

[McLeod Andrews]

Well, I suppose one possible thing that comes to mind is if it's so universal and multiple cultures have variations on this, it's possible that indicates it's a just natural, biological human phenomenon that gets described in different. Through the lens of different cultures.

[Brian Sigley]

Yes.

[McLeod Andrews]

That, like, for one, it's a succubus. For one, it's a hag. For one, it's a hat Man. But it all kind of gets pushed through specific cultural lenses that, like, reinforce the experience.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah. Valid. Or to play devil's advocate here, please.

[McLeod Andrews]

It is the season.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, yes. There is an entity that is global, is. You know, it's like Santa, but for your dreams.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah. And the reason it manifests differently across cultures is that there's some core of this entity that is beyond our sort of sensory ability to understand.

[Brian Sigley]

I'm inclined to side with your version of this, which is that there's some biological process. I mean, everyone sleeps. Everyone has nightmares. Everyone has weird sleep experiences. And I think it's kind of natural that in the dark, you see dark, shadowy things.

[McLeod Andrews]

Especially our minds are incredibly powerful at storytelling, like, at filling in the gaps. When something is wrong, your brain just starts filling in the gaps, saying, like, okay, there must be a cause for the fact that you can't move. And then it, you know, paints a picture.

[Brian Sigley]

But chew on this for a moment, if you will.

[McLeod Andrews]

Sure.

[Brian Sigley]

So in the 1980s, there was this community of Southeast Asian refugees here in America. There was a bunch of healthy men who just started dying in their sleep. And doctors had no idea what was going on, could find no common denominator among these people. What they did find was that there was a disproportionate number of them that had some kind of syndrome that caused abnormal heart rhythms.

[McLeod Andrews]

Okay.

[Brian Sigley]

But still, it had no explanation for why dozens and dozens and dozens of these men were just dying at night for no apparent reason. But there was this one UCLA researcher who heard about this and is like, I want to get to the bottom of this. She started talking to the surviving ref refugees, and all she heard were stories about an entity that was apparently killing the men, which was something called a dachau, which apparently in Hmong means night spirit. And ultimately, the CDC determined that 117 men died in the night during this one or two year period in the 1980s from completely unexplained causes.

[McLeod Andrews]

Supernatural explanations aside, that's terrifying.

[Brian Sigley]

It is indeed. But. But let's come back to our supernatural explanations here, and our hat men and our old hags and things like that. Is there.

[McLeod Andrews]

I mean, I would love to hear a more kind of in depth, nuanced theory.

[Brian Sigley]

I don't have any real supernatural ones that are like, this is what people posit. It is. Other than it is the hat man or it is the old hag or something like that. But there are some kind of cultural things that I think could be explaining what some of this. How some of this might have taken hold, at least in a modern sense. So remember how I said that the hat man is kind of a modern phenomenon? It kind of first popped up in the late 2000s. So is this a modern Internet phenomena? I'm not sure. But it is worth noting that even though there have been reports of shadow entities and sleep paralysis and these kind of creepy bumps in the night forever and ever, basically, it really kind of blew up, at least on the Internet, in starting in 2001, when there was a Show on the radio called coast to coast am, which was hosted by Art Bell, which explored everything from Bigfoot to aliens to things like that. And they started doing a whole bunch of episodes about shadow people in 2001 and asked people to submit their drawings of what these things look like. And I think based on all of that, it kind of took hold in public consciousness in a way that it hadn't quite as much before. And did that give birth to the Hat Man? I don't know. But the one thing about the Hat man that gives me pause is, like I mentioned earlier, that old Middle Eastern lore about it having a hat and stealing it, you know, is kind of compelling to me. But I think there is one kind of shadow looming over this whole lore.

[McLeod Andrews]

I really like what you're doing right now.

[Brian Sigley]

The words just pour forth from me. But that shadow is the movie series, Nightmare on Elm Street.

[McLeod Andrews]

I see the connections.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah. So, you know, that is a movie series about Freddy Krueger.

[McLeod Andrews]

It's pretty scary.

[Brian Sigley]

I honestly, I have to admit, I don't think I've ever seen any of these movies.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, exactly.

[Brian Sigley]

But to my knowledge, he hunts people in their sleep or in their dreams. But it is worth noting that probably aside from the clawed hands and the face, one of the most distincting features of Freddy Krueger is the fedora that he wears. Oh, so the fedora is the Hat Man. Kind of a translation of modern pop culture in that way.

[McLeod Andrews]

Freddy Krueger.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah. And then, of course, the other explanation is this is a real entity. These people are seeing something real. And fear for your lives, everyone you know.

[McLeod Andrews]

So, you know, no matter the origins of this, whether it's natural or supernatural, I think I'm really excited to read the comments on this episode because I imagine probably a lot of our listeners have maybe had their own experiences with stuff like this, or at least know people who have had experiences like this. And again, regardless of whether it's a natural phenomenon or a supernatural phenomenon, it's terrifying.

[Brian Sigley]

Absolutely.

[McLeod Andrews]

Absolutely horrifying.

[Brian Sigley]

I hope to never meet the Hat man myself. But as McCloud mentioned, listeners, if you have seen the Hat man, if you have seen the old hag, if you have seen the Mara or any of these other things sitting on your chest, choking you in the night, standing in the corner of your room, please tell us about them, because we would love to hear about that. Hit us up on Instagram, itingspod, or leave us a comment on Spotify. We have a very large flourishing community of commenters on Spotify who Love chatting about this stuff. So please go there, check it out, and let us know what you think or what you've experienced.

[McLeod Andrews]

All right, without further ado, Brian, where are we going to next in this, our spooky season?

[Brian Sigley]

Well, we are getting closer and closer to Halloween.

[McLeod Andrews]

Can I say something real quick about Halloween and why I love it so much and why I think it's one of our best holidays is unlike. Thanksgiving is also great. You gather your family together and you all hang out, you get each other gifts. But like, Halloween is like the one holiday where you go out and you share with strangers, where you go and meet your neighbors and you experience generosity from all your neighbors all around you and you, you know, reciprocate. And that's why I love it. It's one of the most community based holidays that we have in America anyway.

[Brian Sigley]

That is so endearing and makes my reason that I like Halloween sound horrible.

[McLeod Andrews]

I like candy.

[Brian Sigley]

I like candy.

[McLeod Andrews]

Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait. Brian, what is your. What is your. What is your favorite Halloween candy?

[Brian Sigley]

Well, this is tough. Cause I was allergic to chocolate and peanuts until I was like 12 or 13 or 14.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh, you dear, dear person. I'm so sorry.

[Brian Sigley]

But I'm not gonna lie. I really do like, like Reese's peanut butter.

[McLeod Andrews]

They're so good.

[Brian Sigley]

You know, I like the Reese's Pieces. You know, the ones that were in E.T. they're the best.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, I always just wished I was having an actual Reese's peanut butter cup, though. I was like, I'd be like, okay, this can get me through the night, but I want my peanut butter cup.

[Brian Sigley]

That's valid. I do think those are my favorite candy. But yet the reason I love Halloween is it's scary. You know, like, I love the scary movies. I love the, you know, I love those kind of things. I love, you know, that feeling of apprehension that comes with the season.

[McLeod Andrews]

It makes you feel alive.

[Brian Sigley]

Absolutely. I think that's what it is. But for next week, we are going to tackle one of the most infamous Halloween stories out there. We're heading to a small town in New York.

[McLeod Andrews]

Small town, like a sleepy little village.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, gosh. You didn't hear that, listeners. We're heading somewhere. It's going to be a cool story with a lot of history that hopefully most of you didn't know. But it's the ultimate Halloween episode. I hope you're super excited because I know I am. But see you next week, same time, same place. Right here on Sight Sightings is hosted by McLeod Andrews and Brian Sigley produced by Brian Sigley, Chase Kinzer and McLeod Andrews written by Brian Sigley music by Mitch Bain mixing and mastering by Pat Kleiter of Sundial Media artwork by Nuno Cernatos. For a list of this episode's sources, check out our website website@sightings podcast.com Sightings is presented by Reverb and Q Code. If you like the show, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you're first to hear new episodes every week. And if you know other Supernatural fans, tell them about us. We'd really appreciate it.