The Sallie House: Kansas, 1993

Summary

Sightings Podcast Summary: "The Sallie House: Kansas, 1993"

Episode Release Date: June 2, 2025
Host: McLeod Andrews & Brian Sigley
Presented by: REVERB | QCODE

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Introduction

In this chilling episode of Sightings, hosts McLeod Andrews and Brian Sigley delve into one of Kansas's most notorious haunted locations: The Sallie House in Atchison, Kansas. As part of their "June gloom" series, they explore spine-tingling ghost stories, starting with the unsettling experiences of the Sallie House family in 1993.

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The Sallie House Story

Tony Pickman, the protagonist, recounts his harrowing experiences after moving into the Sallie House with his wife, Deborah, and their newborn son, Taylor. Initially, the family settles into what appears to be their ideal home—a freshly renovated two-story brick house from the 1800s.

However, unusual occurrences begin almost immediately:

• Electrical Anomalies: Tony notices the overhead light dimming and flaring unpredictably ([02:15] McLeod Andrews).

• Oven Malfunctions: The oven timer behaves erratically, setting itself to far longer or shorter times than intended ([02:15] McLeod Andrews).

• Cold Spots: Deborah experiences sudden drops in temperature on the second floor despite the absence of air conditioning ([02:15] McLeod Andrews).

• Animated Toys: The teddy bear mobile in the nursery starts playing music on its own ([02:15] McLeod Andrews).

Despite Tony's skepticism, Deborah becomes increasingly fascinated with the paranormal, believing the disturbances are caused by the spirit of a little girl named Sally.

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Escalation of Paranormal Activity

As months pass, the haunting intensifies:

• Stuffed Animals: One eerie night, all stuffed animals in the nursery are found arranged in a perfect circle, as if having a meeting ([03:30] Brian Sigley).

• Physical Manifestations: Tony discovers three bloody scratch marks on his back after fleeing the house in terror ([03:30] Brian Sigley).

• Psychic Intervention: A psychic confirms the presence of Sally, describing her as a curious and playful spirit. She advises setting ground rules to coexist peacefully ([03:30] Brian Sigley).

Despite initial calm, further incidents occur:

• Fire Incidents: Sally's teddy bear bursts into flames spontaneously, only to extinguish moments later ([04:41] McLeod Andrews).

• Disrupted Rest: Tony starts having painful bites and vivid, terrifying dreams, including feeling physically pulled from his bed ([05:08] McLeod Andrews).

• Personal Strain: The escalating events strain Tony and Deborah's marriage, highlighting their differing beliefs and responses to the haunting ([05:08] McLeod Andrews).

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Climactic Confrontation and Departure

The haunting reaches its peak on Halloween night:

• Visible Apparition: Tony witnesses Sally manifesting physically in the kitchen, only for her to vanish moments later ([14:58] McLeod Andrews).

• Historic Backstory: Deborah uncovers Sally's tragic history—Sally died young during an unsuccessful appendectomy performed by the original homeowner, a man who presumably caused her intense trauma ([16:12] McLeod Andrews).

• Violent Escalation: The presence becomes malevolent, with objects violently moving and familial bonds strained to the breaking point ([22:30] McLeod Andrews).

• Final Incident: A terrifying event in the nursery forces Tony and Deborah to flee the house, marked by physical assaults that leave Tony with permanent injuries ([23:14] McLeod Andrews).

Tony declares:
"Sally wasn't just a ghost. And now she was done playing nice."
(Timestamp: 14:58)

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Analysis and Discussion

After recounting the harrowing tale, McLeod and Brian engage in a deep discussion analyzing the events:

• Historical Verification: They note the lack of historical records confirming Sally's existence, raising questions about the story's authenticity ([25:32] McLeod Andrews).

• Psychological Perspectives: Brian offers a psychological analysis, suggesting that Sally's behavior mirrors that of a traumatized child struggling to communicate, which complicates the interpretation of her actions as purely malevolent ([32:17] Brian Sigley).

  Brian Sigley states:
  "If there is a ghost girl in this house, all of the behavior actually tracks consistently with who that ghost girl would be."
  (Timestamp: 34:08)

• Skeptical Viewpoints: They discuss Electronic Voice Phenomena (EVP) recordings and the possibility of psychological effects exaggerating paranormal experiences ([30:13] McLeod Andrews).

• Cultural Impact: The hosts ponder the enduring allure of haunted house stories and their impact on those who experience them, questioning whether common explanations like attention-seeking or environmental factors could play a role ([34:23] McLeod Andrews).

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Conclusion

"The Sallie House: Kansas, 1993" episode of Sightings meticulously weaves a narrative of supernatural encounters, personal trauma, and psychological tension. Through firsthand accounts and thoughtful analysis, McLeod Andrews and Brian Sigley present a compelling exploration of haunted lore, leaving listeners to ponder the thin line between reality and the supernatural.

McLeod Andrews invites listeners:
"If you have been to the Sallie House, let us know. Or if you have any thoughts about ghost children, if you've encountered ghost children of your own, please let us know."
(Timestamp: 35:16)

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Notable Quotes

• McLeod Andrews:
  "Now more than ever, Lowes knows you don't just want a low price, you want the lowest price."
  (Timestamp: 00:24) – [Note: This is an advertisement segment and would typically be excluded from a content-focused summary.]

• Brian Sigley:
  "The trouble with evil is that it doesn't always announce itself with fairness."
  (Timestamp: 01:29)

• Tony Pickman:
  "So I told her we were leaving for good. And she didn't argue. Some might call us cowards for running."
  (Timestamp: 22:30)

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Final Thoughts

This episode stands out for its intricate storytelling and the hosts' ability to balance narrative with critical analysis. By incorporating firsthand experiences, historical context, and psychological insights, Sightings offers a holistic view of the Sallie House haunting, making it a must-listen for enthusiasts of the supernatural and paranormal investigations.

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For more episodes and detailed sources, visit sightingspodcast.com. Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform to stay updated with the latest chilling tales every week.

Transcript

[McLeod Andrews]

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[Brian Sigley]

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[Brian Sigley]

The trouble with evil is that it doesn't always announce itself with fairness. Fangs and fire. Sometimes it arrives wearing the face of innocence. A child's laughter, a playful giggle, the patter of tiny feet in an empty hallway. But beneath that youthful mask lies something far more sinister. Something that's been waiting for the perfect family to call its own. Welcome to Sightings, the series that takes you inside the world's most mysterious supernatural events. Each episode brings you a thrilling story that puts you at the center of the action, followed by a discussion that dives into the accounts that inspired the story and our takes on them. I'm McLeod.

[McLeod Andrews]

And I'm Brian. And before we dive into today's story, I want to let you know that there's a brand new way to listen to Sightings. The ad free version.

[Brian Sigley]

That's right, we're part of Q Code plus, an awesome subscription that brings you episodes of Sightings completely ad free. No breaks, no distractions, the way Brian and I meant for the show to be heard.

[McLeod Andrews]

That is right. And Q Code plus listeners will also get access to bonus content like the bonus Listener Story episode we have planned for later this month. And McLeod, we know how much you love.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh no, how much I love a listener story. But I am happy to do it for y' all because I'm a level with you. The revenue from these subscriptions, if you listen to our show, really does go to supporting our show so that we can keep on doing these episodes for you, which we really do genuinely love doing so much. And plus, you get all this cool stuff.

[McLeod Andrews]

Absolutely. And best of all, though, you can try out Q Code plus with a free trial right now. Check out Q code plus on Apple Podcasts or head to qcodemedia.com for more information.

[Brian Sigley]

I'm super excited about this.

[McLeod Andrews]

Well, I hope you're also excited about today's story, though.

[Brian Sigley]

Of course I am.

[McLeod Andrews]

It is our first June gloom episode.

[Brian Sigley]

Ooh, the skies are getting gray.

[McLeod Andrews]

That's right. This month we're gonna bring you the most chilling ghost stories we could find, starting with today's the Sallie house in Atchison, Kansas.

[Brian Sigley]

Mm. Let me tell you, Dorothy's gonna wish she never came home.

[McLeod Andrews]

Kansas jokes, Here we go.

[Brian Sigley]

Kansas jokes, here we come. When one family moves into a new home, they themselves sharing it with the spirit of a little girl. But is she willing to play nice? Find out on this episode of Sightings.

[McLeod Andrews]

This episode is brought to you by Neon's new film, the Life of Chuck, which is coming to theaters.

[Brian Sigley]

Brian, stop talking. I'm too excited. I'm sorry. I'm gonna cut you off. When I found out we were doing a promo for this film, I lost my business. Because one, it is an adaptation of a Stephen King short story, the Master, and it's directed by Mike Flanagan, who is a living legend of typically horror movies, but has always a heart and emotionality to his horror films. And so this one, it was all heart.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah. What I loved about it was how it blends fantasy and a haunted house story, and even this giant, incredible dance sequence right in the middle of the movie into one awesome narrative. And not to mention, the cast is off the charts. Bunkers.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, my goodness. You've got Tom Hiddleston, Mark Hamill, Matthew Lillard, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Karen Gillan. The entire spot we're doing right now could just be us listing the incredible cast.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh, yeah. But best of all, it is coming to theaters later this year. This week.

[Brian Sigley]

That's right. And I'm so excited for you all to have the chance to see this movie. Watch the Life of Chuck in select theaters on June 6th and everywhere on June 13th. The Life of Chuck in select theaters on June 6th and everywhere On June 13th. My name's Tony Pickman And I'm not the kind of guy who believed in the supernatural. Never have been. I was raised Catholic, said my prayers and never thought twice about ghost stories. To me they were just that, stories. And I was never one for stories that couldn't be explained with logic or reason. But that was before we moved into that house in Atchison. It was New Year's eve, few years back. 92. Deborah and I were just starting out. She was four months pregnant with our first and we needed a place to call our own. And this place, even though it wasn't much to look at from the outside, was perfect for us. It was a two story brick number from the 1800s, but had been freshly renovated inside. Three bedrooms, a basement, the kind of place you could raise a family in. So we eagerly unpacked, settled in and started preparing the nursery. Deborah had all these plans. Pale yellow walls, white trim, a rocking chair by the window. And I was just happy to see her smile. It all felt right, you know. Well, for the first month it did. Looking back, I think the house was testing us at first. Seeing how we'd react to little things before it started showing its true nature. Because it really did start with little things. I'd noticed the overhead light slowly dimming before flaring back to full brightness. The oven timer started going haywire too. You'd set it for 10 minutes, look away for a second, and suddenly it'd read six. Look again, 20. Then Deborah started noticing the cold spots. Parts of the second floor would feel like ice even though we didn't have ac. And more than once I'd see the teddy bear mobile above the crib start playing on its own. Just music out of nowhere. But I kept telling myself there had to be explanations. Old house, faulty wiring, drafty windows. All things that made complete sense if you didn't believe in ghosts. And I definitely didn't want to believe in ghosts. By June, our son Taylor was born. And for a while everything felt normal again. We were too busy being new parents and learning to function on minimal sleep to worry about the little things anymore. But all of that changed one night in early autumn. We'd been at my parents house for dinner and came home after dark. I carried Taylor upstairs, but the moment we stepped into the nursery, I froze. All the stuffed animals, every single one, had been arranged in a perfect circle on the floor and I swear it, they'd all been on shelves or chairs that afternoon and now it looked like they were having a meeting. We found out later that my sister in law had stopped by to Drop off a high chair while we'd been gone. But when we called her, she swore everything had been normal when she was there. Or almost everything, because she mentioned this overwhelming feeling of unease in our house. So much so that she left as quickly as possible. Deborah and I put the stuffed animals back where they belonged, turned out the light and went downstairs. But we soon heard Taylor whimpering, and I went back up to find the nursery light on again. And now one of the teddy bears, this little beanbag one, was lying face up in the middle of the floor. We searched the whole house, thinking someone must have been playing a trick on us. But we found no one hiding anywhere. No sign that anyone other than my sister in law had been there at all that day. But 20 minutes later, Deborah went up to use the bathroom and called down to me to come upstairs now. And sure enough, that bear was back on the floor. Same position, same spot. The next day, my mother made a strange connection. She knew someone whose daughter had lived in the house before us. And after talking to her, she learned there had been issues. Their son's toys would end up scattered everywhere, but he'd insist he wasn't the one doing it. Instead, it was an invisible entity, the boy called Sally. Then my brother connected us with a friend who claimed to be a psychic. I wasn't expecting much from the call, of course, but without even visiting our house or hearing about what had happened so far, she told us there was a spirit here. A girl between 5 and 13 years old. A girl named Sally. But the psychic insisted she wasn't harmful. Instead, she was curious and playful. So if we wanted to keep order in our house, we would be wise to set down some ground rules. This is where Deborah and I started seeing things differently. She'd always been fascinated by the paranormal and even admitted that she'd secretly wanted to see a ghost. So to her, all of this Sally stuff was pretty exciting, even comforting in a way. Better a playful ghost than an intruder, she said. Me, I wanted nothing to do with it. Spirits, if they existed at all, weren't cute or friendly. And they certainly weren't something you invited into your home. So I started spending more time at church. Not just Sundays, but weekday mornings, too. Sitting in the pews, trying to make sense of what was happening in my house. But Deborah embraced the whole thing. I'd catch her talking to Sally, telling her not to touch this thing or that. One night, I found her in the nursery rocking chair, telling stories to what she said was a cold spot next to her. And the more she reached out to whatever was in our house. The more I pulled away. And eventually, it really started putting a strain on our marriage. But right then, I didn't know how to bridge the gap. How do you compromise when one of you sees a friendly ghost and the other sees something much darker? But I tried to compromise. I sat down with Debra and we talked to the empty rooms, laying down ground rules for Sally. She'd have to put her toys away, leave the baby alone, and always play nice. Remarkably, things got quiet again after that. Normal, almost. And since the baby was healthy and Deborah was happy, I was content. Maybe I'd been wrong about this house the whole time. Maybe my Catholic upbringing had just made me paranoid. So I tried to loosen up. And when my brother came over to visit the baby, I did something really, really stupid. We were sitting in the living room, and that teddy bear, the one that kept ending up on the floor in the nursery, was now sitting on a shelf above the couch and trying to show off how relaxed I was trying to be about the whole thing. I picked up my camera, pointed it at the bear, and said the words, I'll regret for the rest of my life, Sally, if you're here, say cheese. And the moment I snapped the picture, my brother started yelling because that bear had completely turned around a full 180 degrees right in front of our eyes. That was it for me. I bolted for the stairs, ready to get out of there. And my brother tried to get up, but he said something was physically pushing him backwards. Something icy cold that literally froze his body in place before suddenly releasing him. And I could tell from the look in his eyes, this wild, primal fear I'd never seen before, that whatever was happening here was more than just innocent play. Whatever was in our house was powerful enough to physically restrain a grown man. And if it could do that, what else could it do? So I called for Deborah, grabbed the baby, and ran for the car. I remember my hands shaking so badly I could barely get the keys in the lock. Deborah, meanwhile, was outright confused. But as I buckled Taylor into his car seat, I felt this sudden, searing pain rip across my back, like someone had taken a razor to my face skin. I didn't stop to check what it was, though. I wanted out of there so bad. So we piled into the car and drove away. It wasn't until we were safely at my brother's place that Deborah lifted my shirt to see what had caused the pain. And there, running down my back, were three long, bloody scratch marks. And that's when I knew, for Certain that my instincts had been right all along. Sally wasn't just a ghost. And now she was done playing nice.

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[Brian Sigley]

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[McLeod Andrews]

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[Brian Sigley]

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[McLeod Andrews]

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[Brian Sigley]

Namaste.

[McLeod Andrews]

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[Brian Sigley]

Those scratches on my back changed everything. Or at least they did for me. But Deborah wasn't ready to give up on Sally. She invited that psychic to our house and was eager to get confirmation that everything was, in fact, fine. And of course, the psychic told her exactly what she wanted to hear. She said she could see little Sally and that she was an adorable, innocent little girl who just wanted to be part of our family. When I asked about the scratches on my back, the psychic didn't flinch. Sally had just been excited. She said she worried about the baby since my brother and I were moving so fast and in such an emotional state. The psychic then suggested we talk to Sally just like we would a real child. Set boundaries, give her toys, make her feel welcome. And Deborah, she went all in. She bought a special toy box just for Sally and filled it with dolls and things. She'd tell Sally how happy she was to have her in our family. She even left out a crayon and paper for Sally to draw on and wrote questions for Sally to reply to. One day I went upstairs and noticed something written on the pad. It was a note from my wife in her flowery cursive. Hello Sally, how old are you? And in shaky green crayon was a child's reply. 7. I called for Deborah and she was ecstatic. And though she'd only left a red crayon out, somehow Sally had found a green one. It was like she was telling us it was her favorite color, and I didn't find that endearing in the least. Things got much stranger after that. Objects started moving right in front of us. And not just stuffed animals, but larger objects. Then my brother was over one afternoon when he noticed the smell of something burning. We ran to the living room to find Sally's favorite teddy bear was on fire with a 6 inch flame shooting straight up from its head. I grabbed it to put it out, but by the time I reached the sink, the flames had vanished. Deborah didn't seem worried. She told Sally that lighting fires was dangerous and that she must never do that again. She even bought a new doll for Sally, wrapped it in bright paper and left it in the corner of the nursery for her. I expected nothing good to come of it. And sure enough, Deborah was changing Taylor when she saw the new doll lying in the middle of Taylor's crib. Yet the box it had been in was still on the floor, perfectly wrapped. To Deborah, it was just confirmation that Sally was real and wanted to be part of our family. To me, it was terrifying. Around that time, things took an even darker turn. I began hearing voices at night. Faint at first, just murmurs from inside the walls. But they grew louder over time. And though I couldn't understand the words, I could tell they felt angry. Then I started feeling something biting my toes and feet at night. It wasn't painful exactly, just persistent, like a puppy trying to get attention. Then one night when Deborah was in the shower, I felt a sharp pain in my thigh and yelled out. When Deborah came running. I showed her the Marks. Perfect little teeth impressions. Like a child had bitten me. I thought that might finally convince Deborah that things weren't right with Sally. But she just set more boundaries with the ghost. Then on Halloween night, I saw Sally for myself. I was in the kitchen getting some orange juice when I turned around to find a little girl standing in the middle of the kitchen. She had big blue eyes, curly brown hair with a bow and ribbon on top, and an old fashioned white dress with lace trim. I was so shocked. I dropped my glass, and when I looked back up, she was gone. I ran upstairs to tell Debra what I'd seen. And for the first time, I admitted something I hadn't expected. The ghost didn't look frightening or evil. She looked like a normal little girl. It was then that Debra admitted that she'd done some research and learned more about Sally. And her tragic backstory was the reason she was so warm towards the ghostly child. Apparently, our house had been built in 1871 by an Irish immigrant. His son inherited the house, and he became a doctor who practiced here at the turn of the century. According to legend, a little girl named Sally was brought here late one night. She was in terrible pain, and the doctor suspected appendicitis. He needed to operate immediately and tried to give her anesthesia, but it didn't work. So when he began to cut her, she woke up screaming before dying right there on the table. I asked if that was why Sally was so afraid of men. And right then, something seemed to switch for my wife. Instead of excitement, I saw a glimmer of fear. And for the first time, she seemed to be questioning whether having a traumatized ghost child in our house was actually a good thing. Unsurprisingly, things continued to escalate. I began having vivid dreams. And one night, I woke up feeling I was being pulled out of bed by my wrists. When I looked, I found small blisters on both my arms in the perfect shape of a child's fingers. And then came the night that finally broke us both. It was a quiet evening, just the three of us at home. Taylor was in his crib sleeping, and Deborah and I were watching TV downstairs when a horrible screeching noise started blaring from the baby monitor. We ran upstairs and found the culprit. A toy that could record a baby's voice and play it back. But this thing it was playing, that was no human sound we'd ever heard. Then, all of a sudden, everything in the nursery began to shake. The crib, the dresser, even the floor beneath our feet. It was like an earthquake concentrated in only that room. It shook so hard that the door slammed shut. I immediately grabbed Taylor, and Deborah tried to open the door, but it wouldn't budge. So I handed Taylor to her and tried to pry the door open myself. And as I did, I could feel something cold pressing against me, pushing me into the door until I couldn't even breathe. Then, just as suddenly as it started, everything went quiet and the door swung open as if it had never been locked at all. I took Taylor back, and we ran into the hallway. But as I approached the stairs, something shoved me from behind, and I felt myself pitching forward towards the staircase, my balance completely gone. And if Deborah hadn't grabbed my shirt at the last second, I would have tumbled down with Taylor in my arms. As it was, I crashed into the banister, breaking three rails before catching myself. And I turned to Deborah, and I'll never forget the expression, expression on her face. Pure terror mixed with absolute clarity. She finally understood what I'd been trying to tell her all along. That whatever was in this house was no friend at all. It wanted us dead. So I told her we were leaving for good. And she didn't argue. Some might call us cowards for running, but they weren't there. They didn't feel that presence in the dark or hear those voices, or feel that power. And they don't know what it was like to realize that the sweet little ghost girl we thought we were dealing with was just a mask for something much, much worse. Something they had been playing with us all along.

[McLeod Andrews]

Sightings will be back. Back just after this. Hey, listeners. Bryan here. I already know how you love each episode of Sightings, diving into your favorite creepy, spooky, and eerie legends. And maybe you wish there was a show that explored the stories behind your favorite sci fi, horror and fantasy. Books, movies, video games, all of it. Well, guess what? That show exists. It's called Imaginary Worlds. And in each episode, host Eric Malinsky does a deep dive into your favorite genre stories to figure out what they tell us about ourselves. Honestly, it's pretty much what I imagine it would be like if NPR went to Comic Con and just lived there permanently. That's Imaginary Worlds. I just listened to an episode about the final girls of horror movies. You know, like the ones who survive at the end, like Sidney from Scream and Ripley from Alien. And it made me look at those movies in a whole new way. So if you want to dive deeper into the meaning behind movies, TV shows, and books you only thought you knew, check out Imaginary Worlds right now on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Oh, such a clutch pickup, Dave. I was worried we'd bring back the same team. I meant those Blackout motorized shades. Blinds.com made it crazy affordable to replace our old blinds. Hard to install.

[Brian Sigley]

No, it's easy.

[McLeod Andrews]

I installed these and then got some from my mom, too. She talked to a design consultant for free and scheduled a professional measure and install hall of fame, son. They're the number one online retailer of custom window coverings in the world. Blinds.com is the goat.

[Brian Sigley]

The goat. Save up to 50% with minimum purchase at blinds.com Rules and restrictions may apply. June gloom is upon us, listeners. And in this story for me, the skies sure are looking overcast. So I'm going to skip right to the end and say, brian, tell me it isn't true, because I don't like this one bit.

[McLeod Andrews]

If anything, I had to cut some of the true events out because there was just so much going on.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay, well, let's just dig in and get it over with.

[McLeod Andrews]

I know how much you love these haunted house stories.

[Brian Sigley]

I know. And it's always, there's kids.

[McLeod Andrews]

And, like, I remember that listener story we had at the beginning of the year with the teddy bear that was possessed.

[Brian Sigley]

Right. I thought of that one, too.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yep.

[Brian Sigley]

It was Jamie's story.

[McLeod Andrews]

Gosh, you remember the name.

[Brian Sigley]

And I'm sorry, Jamie. I said I called skeptical gecko on your head. Spinning teddy bear. But here we are, and I owe you an apology.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah. So let's dig into the Sallie house here. Real house built in the 1800s in Kansas.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay.

[McLeod Andrews]

Everything that happened in the story happened to this. This family.

[Brian Sigley]

Allegedly.

[McLeod Andrews]

Allegedly. Yes. There were little things at first, you know, the lights, the electronics, the stuffed animals showing up in a circle, having a little powwow on the floor, which would freak me out.

[Brian Sigley]

You know, it's like all this stuff is. Yes. Frightening. Like, anything that is a ghost actually demonstrably doing stuff right in front. It's pretty terrifying. It's the character behind it that really makes it chilling and uncomfortable for me.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah. Because you have a ghost who's terrifying, but then it's this adorable little girl. Theoretically.

[Brian Sigley]

Right. Or just a little girl. Like, it doesn't have to be like, children are children. Whether they're, I don't know, unruly children or pleasant children. They're just kids. Like, they can't sort of be malevolent. Malevolent. Yeah, they're not. At least I don't think they're inherently malevolent.

[McLeod Andrews]

Well, Sally might be a special case a little bit.

[Brian Sigley]

So, Sally. Is there any historical record of a girl named Sally in the area?

[McLeod Andrews]

Not a historical record. There's a lot of legend surrounding it, though.

[Brian Sigley]

Right.

[McLeod Andrews]

As we mentioned in the story, you know the house was built in 1871.

[Brian Sigley]

Right.

[McLeod Andrews]

Apparently, at least three family members of the person who built the house died in that house between 1871 and 1918.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay.

[McLeod Andrews]

So a lot of people died in the house. The son of the original owner was, as we heard in the story, a doctor who practiced in the house. But the legend of Sally itself, as I presented in the story, is the legend of what allegedly happened to Sally.

[Brian Sigley]

An emergency appendectomy.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, the emergency of appendectomy, where the anesthesia doesn't work. She wakes up absolutely screaming as he's operating on her, which must have been traumatizing. And unfortunately, she died on the table in that house. That's how the legend goes. And that Sally is the Sally that lives in the house and does not like men, presumably because the last man she interacted with killed her. Not just killed her. It was a particularly excruciating death.

[Brian Sigley]

Right.

[McLeod Andrews]

That said, there is no record of a girl named Sally dying in Atchison, Kansas, around that time.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay.

[McLeod Andrews]

Now, if this was right around the turn of the century, is it plausible that there aren't records that have existed until this point? Maybe. But beyond that, we don't have a ton to go on in terms of corroborating evidence for this particular story. A lot of it's based on what Deborah and Tony have said happened.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay.

[McLeod Andrews]

Like I mentioned, there's a lot that happened in this house that didn't show up in the story.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay.

[McLeod Andrews]

Where things started escalating in a pretty extreme way. I really wanted to root the story in Sally, though, and Tony. At one point, Tony woke up, and the teddy bear was sitting on his chest, staring at him, which would have terrified me.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah.

[McLeod Andrews]

His brother started having things happen to him in his own home and thinks that Sally followed him home.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, what?

[McLeod Andrews]

Tony also allegedly started having some really violent thoughts about hurting members of his family.

[Brian Sigley]

That's creepy.

[McLeod Andrews]

He may have killed his cat. I don't actually know. He claimed later that he didn't. He claimed at one point he maybe did.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, no.

[McLeod Andrews]

But violence seemed to have been festering in this house at that time. Also not showing up in the story. Tony claims that he saw the figure of a woman in the house.

[Brian Sigley]

Ooh.

[McLeod Andrews]

He saw all these specks of dust coalesce into the shape of A woman right in front of him. Like a detailed woman, which would have sent me running for the hills.

[Brian Sigley]

Right.

[McLeod Andrews]

As happened in the story. They ended up leaving the house when things got too overtly violent for them. But they claim things still have happened to them since then. Tony has had knives fly at him. His clothes have caught on fire. So whether Sally followed them or not is a little bit unclear, I should say. Disclaimer. They did write a book, although that book came out in 2010, long after this happened. So it doesn't seem like it was necessarily like a money grab kind of thing. Like, we're gonna make a movie of this and do all this Stu.

[Brian Sigley]

It's not clear whether it's an Amityville situation.

[McLeod Andrews]

It does not seem at all like an Amityville situation.

[Brian Sigley]

And do. So are there records of other people going in there and experiencing a haunting?

[McLeod Andrews]

There are other reports of, oh, I heard this or I saw this. There are a lot of reports of people recording EVP phenomena, which is electronic voice phenomena, you know, like where you. You're picking up electromagnetic signals that sound like voices.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay.

[McLeod Andrews]

And some team went in there and recorded apparently 18 distinct voices in the house. H. Which doesn't necessarily jive with the actual story, but it seems like something is going on in this house. Whether it's a little girl named Sally or whether it's a woman or whether it's more entities than that, it seems a little bit undeniable that this house has some spooky ongoing thing happening.

[Brian Sigley]

I actually. It's funny, I worked with an audio engineer once who was the on set mixer for a paranormal show at one point. I think he just did one episode working it. And he played for me some clips, clips of the recording he took on. Like it was a ship. It was like an army ship that was supposedly haunted by soldiers and such. And he played for me, like, this audio that he had cleaned up kind of to take out the noise or whatever in which he had gone to a corner of the room and asked 10 hut. And like, he cleaned it up. He's like, if you listen closely, you can hear somebody say, you're not the captain. But I listened and I could. Could hear it. I was like, oh, I could hear what he was saying might be that. But it was also. And he copped to this too, that. That he was like, it could just be our brains looking for patterns and trying to make sense of noise.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yes.

[Brian Sigley]

Kind of like seeing faces in clouds, because it was not very clear. So, you know, with all these 18 voices or whatever. It could be an instance of that.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah. Well, maybe if we ever become a ginormous show and have enough money to go to Kansas, we can go spend a night in the Sallie house and do an episode there.

[Brian Sigley]

In the Sally house.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah. But that's kind of what I've got in terms of the history of this house and this family that had these experiences there.

[Brian Sigley]

And so Tony and Deborah and their family are just still living in Kansas and trying to move on.

[McLeod Andrews]

Not sure where they're living now, actually. It sounds like they've moved on, but like I said, you know, stuff is still happening to Tony. So in your mind, what do you think could be going on here?

[Brian Sigley]

I think what's actually what I find most fascinating about this is just the story of Sally and this character and the things that she does. And I think the tension between Deborah and Tony is also just really interesting in that being a father, there's nothing, even the push down the stairs, which is very scary, that strikes me as particularly outside of childish behavior. Let's just forget the ghost part and let's just imagine a traumatized kid who can't talk, who you can't talk with. And kids get really frustrated when you don't understand them, when you can't communicate, when they just have these huge wallops of feeling that your job is to teach them how to process it. They don't know how to process it. They don't know how to deal with these huge feelings. They don't have context for it. They don't understand the consequence of someone falling down the stairs and getting very badly hurt. Or they don't think ahead that far, generally speaking. And then it's your job to be like, so what you just did could lead to this, and we need to not behave that way. And et cetera, et cetera.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah.

[Brian Sigley]

So I see Deborah's point of view. I see Deborah trying to, like, dig in. I also see Tony being like, this is not our kid. It's a ghost, for crying out loud.

[McLeod Andrews]

You're kind of just expanding my like, this is a much more psychologically complex ghost story than I thought it was originally. Because so many of these stories, it's just the ghost is either hell bent on destruction, you know.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah.

[McLeod Andrews]

Or just making these people's lives miserable.

[Brian Sigley]

People often view the behavior of children as manipulative or malicious, but that's because they project adult awareness of the world and their emotions onto children. Preface all this with I'm generally skeptical.

[McLeod Andrews]

Gecko about ghosts, but if there is a Ghost.

[Brian Sigley]

But if there is a ghost, like, this is a kind of consistent with the story.

[McLeod Andrews]

And you gave a really cool psychological pro. You should be a ghost profiler.

[Brian Sigley]

There we go. So it's like if there is a ghost girl in this house, all of the behavior actually tracks consistently with who that ghost girl would be.

[McLeod Andrews]

Interesting. I think my take on it is clearly, I think something is going on in this house because people have stayed in the house since, have reported weird things happening there. I wonder if that's just because the house is known as a haunted house now.

[Brian Sigley]

Yes.

[McLeod Andrews]

I think the thing that does jump with me too, is that there isn't any record of a Sally in the graveyard, in the town books or anywhere really, that that could corroborate this story.

[Brian Sigley]

Right. I'm sorry. Like, I'm. Like I feel a little worn out. Cause it's a genuinely freaky story and, you know, the backstory of Sally pulls at my heartstrings and just imagining this kid makes me upset.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah. And. Well, this is only our first episode.

[Brian Sigley]

Of June gloom month, and I'm feeling gloomy. Oh, no, we've got a rebrand, guys. I'm sorry. We gotta take the gloom out of the June. It's too gloomy, Brian. It's too gloomy.

[McLeod Andrews]

I already wrote the episode, so we're forging ahead.

[Brian Sigley]

All right. Right.

[McLeod Andrews]

But listeners, if you have been to the Sallie house, let us know. Or if you have any thoughts about ghost children, if you've encountered ghost children of your own, please let us know. Hit us up on Instagram, Itingspod or find us on Spotify. Leave us a comment there. We love reading those.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay, I'm gonna try and shake off this gloomy feeling until next week. Brian, where are we going?

[McLeod Andrews]

We're heading back to my neck of the woods. We're heading to Colorado. We're going to the Stanley Hotel. Oh, wait, I'm not supposed to say where we're going.

[Brian Sigley]

No way.

[McLeod Andrews]

You broke. How many episodes have we made it? 35 episodes.

[Brian Sigley]

This is your first slip up where you let it slip.

[McLeod Andrews]

Okay.

[Brian Sigley]

But it's also, I think, holy cow. This is like the mothership of scary ghost haunting stories. I mean, the Shining. Oh, my gosh, Brian.

[McLeod Andrews]

It's old, it's creepy. It's got a lot of. Of fantastic lore, and I'm excited to really dig in with a great story for it.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, my gosh.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, we gotta wait till next week, everyone.

[Brian Sigley]

I'm so excited.

[McLeod Andrews]

Same time, same place, right here on sightings.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay, okay, okay. See you next week, everybody.

[McLeod Andrews]

Sightings is hosted by McLeod Andrews and Brian Sigley. Produced by Brian Sigley, chase Kinzer and McLeod Andrews written by Brian Sigley Story music by Jackson Dayton Series music by Mitch Bain. Mixing and mastering by Pat Kicklater of Sundial Media Artwork by Nuno Sarnatos. For a list of this episode's sources, check out our [e-mail] Sightings is presented by Reverb and Q Code. If you like the show, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you're first to hear new episodes every week. And if you know other Supernatural fans, tell them about us. We'd really appreciate it. I'm Dallas Taylor, host of 20,000 Hz, a lovingly crafted podcast about the amazing world of sound. From music and video games to science and history, the world of sound is full of great stories. The TIE Fighter was made with a car passing by a microphone on wet.

[Brian Sigley]

Pavement, and then layered on top of.

[McLeod Andrews]

That are these elephant growls. You can choose between snares, you can start chopping up the Amen break and rearranging the individual beats into other configurations, and this barely scratches the surface. We've also revealed the hidden stories behind the most iconic sounds to ever be created to unlock your sonic world. Follow 20,000HZ right here in your podcast player.