Sightings Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Sightings (REVERB | QCODE)
Episode: What Hides Beneath The Mesa?
Date: November 3, 2025

Episode Overview

This electrifying episode dives deep into one of America’s most persistent conspiracy legends: the alleged underground battle between military forces and extraterrestrials beneath Dulce Base, New Mexico. Hosted by McLeod Andrews and Brian Sigley, the show immerses listeners in a dramatized account inspired by Phil Schneider’s infamous claims, followed by an in-depth, skeptical, yet playful discussion of the origins, credibility, and cultural impact of the Dulce Base story. Through narrative storytelling, critical analysis, and banter, the hosts interrogate how wild tales like these become enduring fixtures in the world of the supernatural.

Dramatic Narrative: The Battle at Dulce Base

[04:34–23:10]

Key Points & Story Segment Breakdown

• Introduction by James McKenna, “Retired Master Sergeant” ([04:34])

  • James, on the run and paranoid, frames his account as urgent testimony meant for those who already know about Dulce Base.
  • “If you're listening to this, that means either I got this out in time or I'm already dead...This will not end with me. They already got Phil Schneider. Now they're onto me.” (James McKenna, 04:36)

• Background to the Dulce Assignment ([04:55])

  • In summer 1979, James's special forces unit is deployed under mysterious orders to guard an underground construction project at Archuleta Mesa.
  • Local residents mention cattle being surgically mutilated and unusual lights in the sky.

• Descent & Discovery ([06:34])

  • Accompanying Phil Schneider, the duo descends nearly 1,000 feet underground and finds a massive, smooth-walled cavern “not natural, shone like glass.”
  • “Phil just wouldn't shut up...he started giving lectures, showed off his scars, told the story of that mesa, the base and the battle, and now it's all public...someone's cleaning house.” (James McKenna, 04:48)

• First Encounter ([07:35])

  • James describes being stalked by a tall, gray-skinned, black-eyed humanoid holding a weapon; gunfire proves ineffective.
  • “They weren't falling the way they should have...They folded and then reassembled...then one of them raised its weapon, and the chamber exploded in blue light.” (James McKenna, 08:30)
  • Schneider is wounded by the alien “pulse,” losing fingers to apparent vaporization.

• Militarized Response ([10:30])

  • A full-scale armed team descends, discovering more signs of non-human technology and rooms with human and animal biological samples.
  • “There were exam tables...containment units of some kind. Tissue samples or, I don't know, biological parts in containers. Stuff from cows and stuff from people. One guy bent over to vomit.” (James McKenna, 12:50)

• Climactic Battle & Escape ([12:25–15:35])

  • A “swarm” of aliens attacks, leading to a firefight with blue-energy pulse weapons that instantly vaporize soldiers.
  • A satchel charge is used to collapse a stairwell, barely allowing survivors to retreat.
  • “Less than two dozen of us made it back to the surface. Out of more than 80 that went down.” (James McKenna, 15:48)

• Aftermath & Secrecy ([16:15])

  • Survivors are dismissed, sworn to secrecy, and quickly reassigned. James later learns Phil Schneider survived, started speaking publicly, and died under mysterious circumstances.
  • “They were cleaning house the way they always do.” (James McKenna, 19:20)
  • James, lost in paranoia, questions if it was all to protect the public—or something else.

Panel Discussion: Fact, Legend, or Disinformation?

[23:22–38:48]

Who Was Phil Schneider? ([23:47])

• Phil as a Source
  • McLeod: "Phil Schneider was a real guy...the source of this story to an extent. There have been other people who have kind of corroborated..."
• Brian probes the real-world facts: Was Schneider actually missing fingers?
  • McLeod: “There are videos of him showing off his hand, which has no fingers. But the question is, where did he lose the fingers if not at Dulce Base?” ([26:26])
  • FBI records indicate self-mutilation due to mental illness (schizophrenia) before the alleged events at Dulce.
  • “This report was written before the events at Dulce Base theoretically happened.” (McLeod, 27:19)

Evaluating Veracity ([28:28])

• Skeptical Analysis

  • McLeod: "Phil never produced any documentation. There are no photos, no files, no affidavits from other witnesses that say that this happened."
  • No records of Schneider’s military, engineering, or government employment—only blue-collar jobs.
  • “He is a thoroughly discreditable source.” (Brian, 29:25)

• Phil’s Mysterious Death

  • Six to eight months after his lecture circuit, Schneider is found dead by suicide. His materials and lecture notes are missing.
  • McLeod: “The timing does seem at least a little more suspect than not...” (30:13)

Government Disinformation & the Dulce Mythos ([30:30])

• Brian’s Notion: UFO stories sometimes cover for government secrets.

  • “Sometimes the UFO explanation...serves the government's interests in keeping up plausible deniability for other stuff that's less supernatural.” (Brian, 30:30)

• McLeod elaborates: Documented history of cattle mutilations, strange lights, and a local businessman intercepting odd radio signals around Dulce in the ’70s contributed to myth formation.

  • "There was a giant misinformation campaign...if we get this guy to believe there are aliens flying around, then what we're actually doing here in the Southwest is safe." ([33:28])

• Military misdirection involved staged evidence (vents in the ground, helicopter tours) to fuel alien rumors and shield secret technological experiments.

• Secondary “corroborations”

  • “Thomas Costello” emerged after Schneider, claiming to be a Dulce security officer who witnessed human–alien co-experiments and firefights—likely a “pile-on” rather than objective witness.

Laying It Out: What Do the Hosts Believe? ([34:53–37:10])

• Brian: “I stand on this is an awesome story. Like this is a very fun piece of fiction. I think I'm pretty hard skeptical Gecko on it.”
• McLeod: Also doubts authenticity, noting the absence of evidence for Schneider’s credentials or the alleged events, but loves the story’s artistry.
• The “Skeptical Gecko” (doubtful) and “Believer Beaver” (open-minded credulity) are running show mascots, framing their takes.

Analysis: Why Do Such Stories Stick? ([36:22])

• Dulce is a perfect “poster child” for folklore building: cattle mutilations, lights, rumors, mysterious signals, fertile imaginations, and official secrecy all snowball into an enduring legend, regardless of veracity.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On fallout from Phil Schneider’s story:
  "They already got Phil Schneider. Now they're onto me. And there are countless others, too, I'm sure." (James McKenna, 04:47)
• On the aliens:
  "They weren't falling the way they should have. Instead, they folded and then reassembled." (James McKenna, 08:30)
• On missing evidence:
  “Phil never produced any documentation. There are no photos, no files, no affidavits from other witnesses that say that this happened.” (McLeod, 28:28)
• On UFO rumors as national-security cover:
  "Sometimes the UFO explanation...serves the government's interests in keeping up plausible deniability for other stuff that's less supernatural." (Brian, 30:30)
• On belief vs. skepticism:
  "If you are a die-hard, I believe there were aliens under this space, great, you're a believer beaver. If you're like, I need a little more information, then, you know, you're a skeptical gecko." (McLeod, 27:59)
• On the power of a good story:
  “This show isn’t about debunking or validating these stories. The show is about enjoying these stories and figuring out why they're cool…” (McLeod, 36:22)

Important Discussion Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:34 | Start of James McKenna's narrative (“If you're listening to this...”)| | 07:35 | First alien encounter described | | 12:50 | Discovery of biological samples, escalating horror | | 15:48 | Aftermath: only 24 survivors out of 80 | | 23:22 | Panel discussion begins: verifying story/Phil Schneider | | 26:26 | Verification of Phil’s missing fingers and mental health history | | 28:28 | Discussion of missing evidence, doubts about Phil's claims | | 30:30 | Government disinformation, UFOs as cover for classified operations | | 33:28 | Misinformation tactics and the evolution of the Dulce legend | | 36:22 | Meta-discussion: Why these stories endure |

Episode Tone & Language

• Dramatic, immersive, and suspenseful during the narrative segment, illustrated through first-person military storytelling with a conspiratorial edge.
• Conversational, humorous, and self-aware in the panel segment—hosts embrace skepticism while reveling in the entertainment value and myth-making of paranormal legends.
• Consistently respectful toward listeners on both sides of the belief/skeptic spectrum, inviting discussion.

Conclusion / Listener Engagement

• The hosts leave the story open-ended, inviting believers and skeptics alike to share thoughts and interpretations via social media and podcast comments.
• Teaser for next episode: An exploration of one of the most documented poltergeist stories—the “return to paranormal land” and ghostly phenomena.

Takeaway

This episode masterfully blends atmospheric, first-person storytelling with a nuanced critical analysis. While the legend of Dulce Base and its “alien war” remains (almost certainly) fiction, the Sightings team explores why such stories capture imaginations and persist, providing insights into how conspiracy culture, official secrecy, and pop folklore intermingle in the American supernatural landscape.