You Don't Know Amityville: New York, 1975

Summary

Sightings Podcast Episode Summary: "You Don't Know Amityville: New York, 1975"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Sightings
• Hosts: McLeod Andrews & Brian Sigley
• Episode: You Don't Know Amityville: New York, 1975
• Release Date: April 14, 2025
• Description: Each week, Sightings delves into the world's most mysterious supernatural events, presenting thrilling stories followed by in-depth discussions that explore the boundaries between reality and the paranormal.

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1. Introduction to the Amityville Haunting

The episode begins with McLeod Andrews setting the stage for one of the most infamous supernatural tales: the Amityville Haunting. He introduces the story of the Lutz family, who moved into their dream home at 112 Ocean Avenue in Amityville, only to encounter terrifying paranormal activities.

Notable Quote:

"Need to know what’s real and what’s impossible? Find out on this episode of Sightings."
— McLeod Andrews [02:22]

2. The Lutz Family's Experience

George Lutz recounts the family's move into the Amityville house shortly after the tragic murders committed by Ronald DeFeo Jr. The initial impression of the house was positive, despite its unsettling history.

Key Points:

• Purchase of the House: The Lutzes bought the house for $80,000, significantly below market value, raising suspicions.
• Initial Signs: Oddities began soon after moving in, including nightly awakenings at exactly 3:15 AM, unexplained cold spots, aggressive behavior from their dog, and inexplicable swarms of flies.

Notable Quote:

"All of the newspaper stories said it happened at 3:15 in the morning. The same time I'd been waking up every single night."
— George Lutz [09:40]

3. Escalation of Paranormal Activities

As days passed, the supernatural events intensified. The family experienced tangible manifestations, such as a demonic figure appearing in the fireplace and physical harm inflicted upon their children.

Key Events:

• Demonic Figure: George and Kathy witnessed a hooded, horned figure emerging from the fireplace, marking a turning point from mere disturbances to active malevolence.
• Physical Injuries: Their son Danny suffered severe hand injuries when a window slammed shut, only for the injuries to vanish once outside, though the pain remained.
• Final Straw: The culmination of events forced the Lutzes to flee the house after just 28 days, convinced that they were being pursued by an evil presence.

Notable Quote:

"The moment we crossed the threshold, Danny stopped screaming. He looked down at his hand, and so did I."
— George Lutz [12:50]

4. The DeFeo Family Murders

The episode delves into the background of the house's dark history. In 1974, Ronald DeFeo Jr. murdered his entire family in this very residence, an act that set the stage for the subsequent haunting claims.

Key Points:

• Murders Details: On November 13, 1974, Ronald DeFeo Jr. shot six members of his family in their beds.
• Legal Outcome: DeFeo eventually confessed, despite initially claiming someone else committed the murders. He was convicted and remains incarcerated.
• Impact on the House: The horrific murders left the house vacant for 13 months before the Lutzes moved in.

Notable Quote:

"He ended up confessing that he did indeed do it. It's worth noting, though, that he was a drug addict, and the DeFeo family seemed to be pretty messed up."
— Brian Sigley [27:08]

5. Hosts' Discussion: Real Haunting or Hoax?

After recounting the Lutz family's narrative, McLeod Andrews and Brian Sigley engage in a critical discussion analyzing the authenticity of the haunting versus the possibility of it being a fabricated story.

Discussion Highlights:

• Financial Motivation: The hosts explore whether the Lutzes exaggerated or fabricated their experiences for financial gain, noting the substantial earnings from books and multiple film adaptations.

  "It really does sound like most people believe that maybe something could have happened in the house, but there was a very clear effort to commercialize it."
  — Brian Sigley [38:04]

• Polygraph Tests: Both Lutzes reportedly passed polygraph tests, lending some credibility to their claims.

• Contradictory Evidence: Instances such as claiming to see hoofprints during a period when no snow fell in Long Island raise doubts about the veracity of their story.

Notable Quote:

"If money is what it takes to get her back, we're gonna pay it."
— Brian Sigley [12:25]

6. Theories on the Supernatural Elements

The hosts explore various theories that attempt to explain the paranormal activities reported at 112 Ocean Avenue.

Main Theories Discussed:

1. Actual Haunting: Suggesting a genuine malevolent presence inhabiting the house, possibly influencing events leading to the DeFeo murders.
2. Hoax for Profit: Proposing that the Lutz family and associated parties fabricated the haunting narrative to capitalize financially.
3. Misinterpretation: Considering that natural phenomena or psychological factors might have been misconstrued as supernatural occurrences.
4. Demonic Infestation: Speculating about a demonic entity tied to the house's history, potentially linked to Native American burial grounds discovered on the property.

Notable Quote:

"Anyways, there's a couple theories here. One, this is actually a haunting. Two, this is a hoax or just a story made up to make a buck."
— Brian Sigley [31:45]

7. Historical and Occult Connections

Further investigation into the house's history reveals that the land may have been built over a Native American burial ground, adding another layer to the supernatural claims.

Key Points:

• Native American Burial Ground: An 1885 newspaper article mentions the discovery of Iroquois tribe members' remains on the property.
• Paranormal Investigators: Renowned figures like Ed and Lorraine Warren conducted investigations, describing the sewing room as "as close to hell as she'd ever get."

Notable Quote:

"There was a newspaper article from 1885 that says that the remains of Iroquois tribe members were found buried on the very land that the Amityville house stood."
— Brian Sigley [36:02]

8. Final Analysis and Hosts' Stance

Concluding the discussion, the hosts express skepticism regarding the authenticity of the haunting, highlighting inconsistencies and potential financial motives behind the Amityville story's proliferation.

Hosts' Opinions:

• Skeptical Geckos: Both McLeod and Brian align themselves with skepticism, suggesting that the story might have been exaggerated or exploited for monetary benefits.

  "Sound like you're in the skeptical gecko camp. I am, too."
  — McLeod Andrews [37:08]

• Cultural Impact: Acknowledging the story's significant impact on pop culture, they recognize its enduring fascination despite doubts about its truthfulness.

• Personal Reflections: Both hosts admit to feeling unsettled by the narrative, emphasizing the chilling nature of the events regardless of their authenticity.

Notable Quote:

"But great story nonetheless, which is why I was so excited to do it on here."
— Brian Sigley [38:50]

9. Teaser for the Next Episode

The episode wraps up with a preview of the next installment, promising an exploration of Canada's best-documented UFO sighting, enticing listeners with the promise of photographic evidence and thrilling content.

Notable Quote:

"Next week, we are going to head to the best documented UFO sighting in Canadian history. It's pretty cool. It's pretty awesome."
— McLeod Andrews & Brian Sigley [39:38]

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Conclusion

This episode of Sightings meticulously examines the legendary Amityville Haunting, presenting both the Lutz family's harrowing experiences and a balanced discussion on the story's credibility. Through detailed narration and critical analysis, the hosts encourage listeners to ponder the thin line between paranormal phenomena and human fabrication, all while maintaining an engaging and thought-provoking narrative.

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For More Information:

• Website: sightingspodcast.com
• Social Media: Instagram handle @sightingspodcast

Subscribe: Ensure you don't miss future episodes by subscribing on your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[McLeod Andrews]

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[Brian Sigley]

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[McLeod Andrews]

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[Brian Sigley]

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[McLeod Andrews]

Things the right way, you're free to discover your way.

[Brian Sigley]

And that's what running's all about. Run your [e-mail] Running hey, everyone, it's Bryan. And since you're a fan of Sightings, I know you love great creepy stories, so I want to recommend True Scary Story, a podcast that brings you real horror stories told directly by the people who lived them. Get ready for ghostly encounters, paranormal activity, and terrifying moments that'll haunt you. So if you love true horror, you need to check out True Scary Story. You can find it on Spotify, Apple podcasts, and everywhere you listen.

[McLeod Andrews]

Every house has its secrets. Whispers of the varied lives lived between its walls. But what happens when those whispers turn to screams? Turning a dream home into an absolute nightmare? Because if houses have memories, what happens when they hold a grudge? Welcome to Sightings, the series that takes you inside the world's most mysterious supernatural events. Each episode, we bring you a thrilling story that puts you at the center of the action, followed by a discussion that dives into the accounts that inspired this story and our takes on them. I'm McLeod.

[Brian Sigley]

And I'm Brian. And today we are tackling one of the most infamous ghost stories ever. The Amityville Haunting.

[McLeod Andrews]

When one family moves into their dream home, they quickly realize that something else lurks within its walls. But is this the most terrifying haunting of all time? Or the most notorious hoax? Find out on this episode of Sight. My name is George Lutz. I'm 32 years old, father of three, and until tonight, the owner of 112 Ocean Avenue in Amityville. I suppose that legally, technically, I still own the place. But I'm never going back there. Not for my furniture, my clothes, none of it. Because that house, it's evil. Pure, unfiltered evil. You'd never know from the looks of it, of course. A beautiful Dutch colonial sitting right on the water. Complete with a boathouse and swimming pool. Three stories, six bedrooms, three and a half baths, and a finished basement. The kind of place most families can only dream about. I remember the moment Kathy and I first stepped inside. We'd been married only a couple months and been house hunting nearly as long since Kathy had three kids from her previous marriage. We were desperate to find something big enough for our blended family and this place. Well, right there in the foyer, I saw Kathy's face light up and I could tell she was mentally arranging furniture, planning where the Christmas tree would go, imagining our life here. This was it. This was home. Of course, the price seemed too good to be true. $80,000 for a house that should have cost at least 125,000. And since I've always been a bit more than practical, I'd learned long ago that when something's being sold below market value, there's usually a reason. So I asked, and that's when our realtor told us. I noticed then that she'd been uncomfortable the whole time she'd been in the house, shifting her weight from one foot to the other, fidgeting with her keys, clearing her throat. But after I asked her about the price, she took a deep breath, forced a brave smile, and explained that 13 months earlier, a young man named Ronald DeFeo Jr. Had shot and killed his entire family in this house while they slept. Six people, his parents and four younger siblings, all murdered in their beds right in that very house. And I suppose that's not what anyone wants to hear about the home of their dreams. So Kathy and I took a long walk alone around the property. And as we talked it all through, I noticed the distinctive quarter moon windows on the third floor. To me, they looked like eyes watching over the property, and I found that incredibly unnerving. But at the same time, that made me realize how silly I felt. It was just a house, after all. Besides, a tragedy from the past had nothing to do with us. So we bought 112 Ocean Avenue right then and there. We could handle a house with a dark history. But it turns out we were wrong about that. So, so wrong. The day of our move, a friend suggested having the house blessed, and it seemed like a good precaution given the history. So I called a priest. I knew Father Ralph, and he set out to do his thing, but when he came back outside, he was shaken and said we shouldn't use one of the upstairs rooms as a bedroom, but wouldn't say why. I at least pressed him for which room it was, and he said it was the smallest one. And I honestly breathed a sigh of relief because we didn't plan on using that as a bedroom at all but a sewing room for Kathy. Superstitious crisis averted, we settled in. The kids were all thrilled to have their own room and I was ready to settle into this next chapter of my life. I fell asleep before my head even hit the pillow. But at 3:15am Exactly, I bolted up in bed. There was no nightmare or noise that I could recall. I just felt this nagging need to check the house. So I got up, careful not to wake Kathy, and walked through each room checking on the kids, making sure all the doors and windows were locked. And wouldn't you know it, everything was absolutely fine. But the next night the same thing happened. Wide awake at 3:15 on the dot, I got up again and this time noticed the side door to the boathouse was open, which was strange because I distinctly remembered locking it before bed. I secured it again and went back to sleep, though not easily. By the end of our first week in the house, I'd woken up at exactly 3:15 every single night. And there were other odd things too. Things we tried to write off as new house jitters and nothing more. But our dog Harry, normally the most even tempered Labrador you'd ever meet, refused to enter certain parts of the house and would stand at the foot of the stairs barking at nothing. We'd find random cold spots throughout the house, areas where the temperature would drop 20 degrees for no apparent reason, even with the heating running full blast. And then there were the flies. Even in the dead of winter, swarms of black flies would appear in the sewing room, seemingly out of nowhere. I'd kill dozens of them, only to find more when I came back a few hours later. Kathy started leading me in transcendental meditation to deal with the stress and lack of sleep. But one night while we were meditating in the living room, she suddenly gasped, said she felt someone touch her hand. Not being threatening, she said, but definitely there. Definitely real. As if that's not enough, our youngest, five year old Missy, soon developed an imaginary friend she called Jody. She said sometimes Jody was a little boy and sometimes Jody was a pig. A very large pig with glowing red eyes. Of course, kids have imaginary friends all the time, so we didn't think much of it. At least until I glanced up at her window one night and saw an adult sized figure moving around in her room. I rushed inside to check on her, but found her alone and sound asleep. I told Kathy what I'd seen and she tried to brush it all off as the stress of moving into a new home and trying to blend our Family. Perhaps I was gaining a protective fatherly instinct. Besides, we didn't have time to indulge in ghost stories. But the incidents kept piling up. Kathy would feel invisible hands touching her when she was alone in the kitchen. Black stains would appear in the toilets overnight. Stains that no amount of cleaning could remove. We'd catch footsteps overhead even when everyone was downstairs and heard doors slam when no one was nearby. And those flies. God, the flies kept up all right. And let me tell you, flies don't swarm like that in December. And they don't reappear after being killed. But these did. I tried to keep my head down, telling myself I was being hyperbolic, hysterical even. But the thought that something odd was happening here kept nagging at me. And I kept thinking about those Defeo murders. Surely they couldn't be linked to this. So I went to the library and pulled small newspaper articles. And I don't think I'll ever quite be able to shake what I found. The Defeo family, it seemed, had been killed in the middle of the night. All shot while sleeping in their beds. And all of the newspaper stories said it happened at 3:15 in the morning. The same time I'd been waking up every single night. And sitting there in the library, I had a terrifying thought. That the house itself seemed to remember the trauma of those murders. And now it wanted us to remember, too. But that was ridiculous. Hyperbole. Hysteria. It was a quirky old house. Everything was explainable. Tricks of the eyes, odd creaks in the night. So I decided not to bother telling Kathy what I'd found. Instead, I went home, cooked a nice dinner and sat down to enjoy evening coffee with Kathy once the kids went to bed. The hearth was my favorite place in the house. This majestic fireplace in the living room that cut the winter cold. And just as the logs were crackling, I settled into my chair and thought about how good we actually had it there. But as I lifted my cup to take a sip, I noticed Kathy had gone completely still, her eyes fixed on the hearth. So I followed her gaze toward the flames and smoke. And there it was. A figure. Not just shadow patterns, but an actual figure. A hooded head with demonic horns rising towards the chimney. And as the embers swirled around it, I could swear the faceless thing was staring right at me. Then Kathy screamed, snapping me from my gaze, and I grabbed her hand and we ran from the room. And it was right then, standing in the dark cold, that I knew this wasn't hysteria. We weren't just jumpy new homeowners scared of shadows and creeks. Something real was in this house with us. And it turns out it was just getting started. The missing child is Lucia Blix, 9 years old.

[Brian Sigley]

Please let her come back home safely. April 16th. The kidnappers plumbed it meticulously.

[McLeod Andrews]

If money is what it takes to get her back, we're gonna pay it.

[Brian Sigley]

The secrets they hide. You can't talk about this.

[McLeod Andrews]

You can't write about it.

[Brian Sigley]

Are the clues.

[McLeod Andrews]

The mother's hiding something.

[Brian Sigley]

I know it. To find her, tell me where she is. The Stolen girl series premiere April 16 on Freeform and stream on Hulu. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today. This episode is brought to you by Pluto tv. Are you looking for your next case? Pluto TV has all your favorite crime.

[McLeod Andrews]

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[Brian Sigley]

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[McLeod Andrews]

That demonic figure in the fireplace changed everything. Before that moment, we'd been rationalizing away the unexplainable. But seeing that hooded form materialize from the flames, well, there was no explaining that away. Both Kathy and I had seen it, and it scared the hell out of us. Worse, the activity escalated after that night. Those black stains now consumed every toilet in our house. Then came the slime. We'd find puddles of it, a thick, gelatinous substance in random places throughout the house. At first, we blamed the kids, thinking they must have spilled something. But then we found it. Appearing even when they were at school. It would materialize on windowsills, doorknobs, banisters, anywhere you might need to touch. The substance had no source we could find and no explanation we could fathom. Sometimes it would appear right before our eyes, oozing out of seemingly solid surfaces. The cold spots in the house grew more intense and more frequent. Rooms would drop 20 or 30 degrees in moments, even with the heating running full blast. We'd walk through patches of air so frigid it felt like stepping into a freezer. And these weren't static. They'd move, following us from room to room as if something unseen was trailing in our wake. Soon the dog refused to go upstairs at all anymore. And I'd catch him outside, seemingly looking up at those eye like quarter moon windows on the third floor. And now, when I looked up at them, all I could see was cold, calculating hunger. And worst of all, it began affecting the kids. They began having nightmares, terrible ones that left them screaming in the dark. Danny, the oldest, told Kathy that something with red eyes watched him sleep. Christopher swore that his bed would shake violently, like someone was trying to tip him onto the floor. And Missy. She continued her conversations with her imaginary friend Jody, which became increasingly disturbing. One evening, I overheard her telling Jody that Mommy and daddy will stay here forever. When Kathy asked her about it, Missy said that Jody knew everything that would happen to us. I should have just cut and run right then and there, but where would we go? We'd sunk everything into this place. So I hoped, prayed that we could wait it out, that it would just go away like a bad dream, fading after you wake up screaming. But it didn't go away. Instead, it got violent. Two days after the fireplace incident, Kathy was alone in the kitchen when she felt something touch her from behind. She described it as if invisible arms were wrapping around her waist, and at first she thought it was me playing the joke. But the embrace quickly turned sinister, squeezing her so hard she couldn't breathe. She struggled against nothing at all, gasping for air, until just as suddenly as it began, the pressure released. Then Danny said he smelled something horrible in the playroom upstairs and went to open the window. But before he could step back, the heavy wood frame came slamming down on his hands, trapping his fingers. The sound of his scream sent Kathy and me running up those stairs three at a time. And we found him hysterical, tears streaming down his face. And I tried to free him, to lift the window back up, but it was like someone was holding it down with tremendous force. It took everything Kathy and I had to finally raise it enough to free his hand. His fingers were a mess, purple, clearly broken, maybe worse. Kathy rushed him to the kitchen for ice while I dealt with the window, which now moved up and down as easy as it ever had. No resistance at all, like it was mocking me. I was heading back downstairs when I heard news screams from the kitchen, different than before. I ran in to find Danny pointing at the kitchen table, shrieking in terror and saying someone was sitting there, staring at him. I couldn't see a damn thing. But the way that boy was looking at that empty chair, the absolute conviction in his eyes, I knew he was seeing something real, something that had deliberately hurt him. So I scooped him up, injured hand and all, and carried him outside to the yard. And the strangest thing happened. The moment we crossed the threshold, Danny stopped screaming. He looked down at his hand, and so did I. The swelling was gone. The purple color had vanished. His fingers, which had been bent at unnatural angles just moments before, were completely normal, like the injury had never happened at all. But I'd seen those broken fingers, and Danny remembered the pain, even if his body no longer showed evidence of it. That was the final straw. Clearly, whatever was in the house wasn't content with just scaring us anymore. And next time, maybe the injuries wouldn't magically disappear. So I told Kathy we were leaving. No discussion, no debate. We'd pack up tomorrow and figure the rest out later. Turns out we didn't even make it that long. 28 days. That's how long we lasted at 112 Ocean Avenue. And I think I'm only alive to tell this story because we ran when we did. It's well past midnight now. Things came to a head about three hours ago. We were all sleeping in the master bedroom, the kids on the floor mattress, Kathy and me in our bed. And though everyone else had managed to drift off, sleep felt impossible for me. So I lay there, watching over my family, listening to every creak and groan of that damned house. Then, all of a sudden, Kathy sat up next to me. Her movements were strange, mechanical. Almost without a word, she swung her legs over the side of the bed and walked to the dresser mirror, not wanting to wake the kids. I whispered to ask what she was doing, but she didn't respond. Didn't even seem to hear me. She just stood there, staring at her reflection, completely motionless. So I got up and went to her, set my hand on her shoulder. But when I caught a glimpse of that mirror, I realized it wasn't her reflection staring back. It was that thing from the fireplace, that hooded horned figure. And even though it had no visible face, I somehow knew it was staring right at me. Through me. I yanked Kathy away from the mirror, and she came to with a gasp, like someone surfacing from deep underwater. She had no memory of even getting out of bed. But before we could even process what had happened, there was a tremendous crash from downstairs, like every piece of furniture in our living room was being thrown around at once. The noise was deafening, but somehow the kids didn't stir. They slept through it all. So Kathy and I crept down the stairs, holding onto each other, dreading what we might find. But when we reached the Living room. Everything was exactly where it should be. Not a chair out of place, not a picture crooked on the wall. And then we heard the screams coming from upstairs. All three kids at once, liked they'd woken simultaneously from the same nightmare. So we turned to run back up, but I froze halfway up the staircase. Because there, at the top of the stairs was that hooded figure. Not a reflection this time. This was a solid, dark and very real shape that was blocking the path to our children. I charged up after it, protective instinct overriding my fear. But by the time I reached the landing, it was gone. In the bedroom, all three kids were huddled together in the corner, as far from the bed as they could get. They were babbling over each other, but I caught enough to understand. Each of them had felt something crawl onto their mattress with them. Something heavy. Something that breathed on their faces. I looked at my wife, at these three terrified children, and knew right then and there that we weren't spending another minute minute in this house. Not one second longer. So I scooped up the kids and we ran like hell, still in our pajamas, down the stairs and out the front door. I hustled everyone into the car, fumbling with the keys, desperate to get away for good. But just before I got into the driver's seat, I couldn't help taking one last look back at the house. And there, in one of those quarter moon windows, stood that hooded figure. It raised a long, thin arm and pointed directly at me. At us. I drove us to Kathy's mother's house in a daze. She made up beds, settled the kids, and eventually they all fell asleep. All except me. So here I am, lying awake in bed, trying to make sense of what happened. Trying to figure out what we do now, where we go from here. All I know for certain is that I'm never setting foot in 112 Ocean Avenue again. Never. Whatever possessions we left behind, they can stay there. They're not worth our lives. I'm just glad we were able to escape when we did. But wait. Something's wrong. The sheets around Kathy, they're. They're moving. Lifting. And so is she. She's not even touching the mattress at all. And that's impossible. But I'm trying to grab her. And I feel my own body lifting up, moving off the bed against my will. And I realize now, with absolute clarity, that though we may have left the house, we haven't escaped a thing.

[Brian Sigley]

Sightings will be back just after this. Hey, skeptical geckos. Since you're fans of sightings, I know you like Juicy audio storytelling. So I want to tell you about one of my favorite fiction, Ominous Thrill. Ominous Thrill is a multi award winning audio fiction anthology of horror thrillers and suspense brought to life with great actors and vivid sound design. And I mean it. The sound design is like blockbuster movie level sound design. Each monthly episode of Ominous Thrill delivers a thrilling new character driven story where obsession, love, rage and revenge clash in the murky worlds of the supernatural and paranormal. Which, as you know, is right up our alley. So it's basically like Black Mirror meets American Horror Story where the monster's always close to home. And I really encourage you to listen to this at night so you can get maximally creeped out. So pop on some headphones or earbuds and listen to Ominous Thrill wherever you get your podcasts. They were heavy footsteps, like it sounded like someone wearing a big pair of boots going bump, bump, bump up the stairs. And I'm thinking, oh God, it's gonna come in my room. And this is where I made the biggest mistake. I said, what are you doing here? Well, you can come out. We won't hurt you. And it ran straight through me and my friend. True stories, true terror. You can see me in the dark, hosted by Nate Reisman and Melissa Sweezy. Around like 2am I feel like something kind of standing over me and it's her. I looked down the street and there was a woman in a white nightgown, barefoot, just walking down the middle of the street. And it stopped me in my tracks and I just felt this fear just come over my whole body. You can see me in the dark.

[McLeod Andrews]

Wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back, everybody. I hope you aren't too freaked out. As you know, this story is unique because it's like wham o way up there. It's a pop culture phenomenon. Ryan Reynolds took a swing at it. So right away I'm wondering if this is all a bunch of Hollywood smoke and mirrors to sell books and movies or did something really happen in this house?

[Brian Sigley]

Well, what we do know comes from the Lutzes, who I guess we got to kind of take them at their word, knowing that they made a ton of money off of this.

[McLeod Andrews]

Did they really?

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, yeah, yeah. They sold. They made the book. They made hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars and there's been, what, 10 or 20 movies?

[McLeod Andrews]

So is that what Ryan Reynolds? Is he the Lutz?

[Brian Sigley]

I'm gonna make a confession. I have never seen an Amityville haunting movie.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh, wow. You know what? I haven't seen one of the original Ones I've only seen the Ryan Reynolds one.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay.

[McLeod Andrews]

Which is probably not the best one.

[Brian Sigley]

I figure he has to be a Lutz if it was a remake. Unless, you know, he's one of the 10,000th families that move into this house and keep experiencing weird things. But in this case, though, the events in the story that you read were the events as the Lutz said. They happened. I didn't make any. So, you know, they moved in, crazy stuff happened, and then they run in the night.

[McLeod Andrews]

Okay, so that was a admittedly horrifying and creepy chilling experience that he claims his family went through. But what about the murders? Is that a real thing?

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah, the DeFeo family murders that happened. Oh, yeah. November 13th, 1974. Ronald DeFeo Jr. Slaughtered his family in the house. Two parents, four siblings, all shot point blank with a rifle while they were sleeping. The next day, he claimed that someone else did it. Then he ended up confessing that he did indeed do it. It's worth noting, though, that he was a drug addict, and the DeFeo family seemed to be pretty messed up, to say the least. His legal team ended up mounting an insanity defense, but ultimately, he was found guilty for these murders.

[McLeod Andrews]

Well, that's dark, but, you know, it begs the question, was there actually, like, something in the house, a demonic presence that, like, possessed him during the murders, or did it spring from his horrible actions?

[Brian Sigley]

Possession's definitely a theory. He did not ever claim that he was possessed, though. But after that, he ends up in jail, the house is empty because everyone's dead, and it sits on the market for, I guess, 13 months until the Lutz family moves in.

[McLeod Andrews]

Just like, for the record, I gotta go and. Because I know this is a fun podcast, but that's a deeply upsetting story.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, absolutely. Very upsetting, absolutely. We try to avoid true crime on this show or upsetting things, but I think this case, it's a little bit integral to the story.

[McLeod Andrews]

No, of course, I'm not saying we should avoid it, because to me. Well, you know, I won't go to jump to our skeptical gecko ness yet. But anyway, eventually, the Lutz family moves in, which apparently, big mistake.

[Brian Sigley]

There was stuff in the book and in their account that I had to leave out of the story because there was just so much happening.

[McLeod Andrews]

Right.

[Brian Sigley]

When they moved in, for instance. This is insane. When they moved in, they were offered some of the DeFeo family's furniture for $400.

[McLeod Andrews]

No.

[Brian Sigley]

Including the bedroom sets.

[McLeod Andrews]

No.

[Brian Sigley]

That they were murdered in, and they took them.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh, well, see, now I'm like, they must have known what they were doing. Like, they must have been looking at it as an investment. Like, why do you. No sane person would be like, yeah, you know, like, even to save a buck, you wouldn't be like, yeah, I'll take the bed that someone got shot in.

[Brian Sigley]

Well, it wasn't the mattresses anymore. It was some of the other stuff.

[McLeod Andrews]

Well, sure. But still, that makes me suspicious.

[Brian Sigley]

I think a lot of people are suspicious. But let's lay it all on the table first before we jump to any conclusions.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yes. So. So after this story, like, what happened, they. They go on a. They go on a media tour.

[Brian Sigley]

It seems to have taken a little bit before, you know, the book came out and then all this stuff. But relatively soon after they moved out, they seem to have wanted to know what might have been going on in the house, even though they didn't seem to step foot in the house again. I'd have to look at if that's actually true, if they never stepped foot in the house again. Because eventually a bunch of experts descended on the house, like psychics Ed and Lorraine Warren, like, the conjuring people. They came into the house. They hosted a seance there, apparently. Of course, though, Channel 5 News was there too.

[McLeod Andrews]

Right.

[Brian Sigley]

So that makes me question a little bit of things. But during that whole experience, Lorraine Warren said that the sewing room, which was the room that the priest went in, and said, like, this room is messed up, and a bunch of stuff was kind of happening there. She said that that room was as close to hell as she'd ever get.

[McLeod Andrews]

Right, right. Right.

[Brian Sigley]

And this is the conjuring woman. So, okay, I have to assume that it was bad. But that aside, eventually they ended up pairing up with a writer named Jay Anson, who produced the book the Amityville Horror, which was an instant bestseller blockbuster movie.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yay.

[Brian Sigley]

It is worth saying that several families have lived at 112 Ocean since then. None of them have experienced a.

[McLeod Andrews]

Well, I gotta say. Well, first off, I think that's kinda wild. Like, raise this house to the ground.

[Brian Sigley]

It makes sense. Yeah. I would not be brave enough to go and live in this house.

[McLeod Andrews]

But I guess at that point, it's families that are pursuing the kind of story I would think. I wouldn't imagine it's just unsuspecting. Like, oh, what?

[Brian Sigley]

One would clearly think that this might all be a money play.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yep.

[Brian Sigley]

But in terms of the Lutzes, they both took a polygraph test and passed. Also, their son Daniel, who's the one whose fingers got smashed in the Window. He is someone who clearly has no love for his parents. But he does say in an interview in 2012 that the haunting did happen and was real.

[McLeod Andrews]

Okay, well, see, that was actually gonna be. One of my questions is whenever there's, like, kind of these family hauntings or situations, especially if there's been a bunch of money made off of it, I'm like, where do the kids stand on this?

[Brian Sigley]

That's the only one I could really find anything about, but that is something. So those are kind of the facts. There's a little bit more that we can get into, but I want to do them through the lens of theories, kind of. Okay.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, please.

[Brian Sigley]

So let's jump into the. The off your top. Like, I mean, it seems like there's a couple theories here, you know, One, this is actually a haunting.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yep.

[Brian Sigley]

Two, this is a hoax or just a story made up to make a buck. Can you think of anything else? Because I think those are kind of what I've.

[McLeod Andrews]

No, I. Let me. Let me see. I. Well, I guess the. Obviously, the other possibility is, like, misinterpretation.

[Brian Sigley]

Oh, valid.

[McLeod Andrews]

So it's not an. It's not an intentional hoax, But, I mean, this is a lot to misinterpret.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah. Okay, well, let's start by putting on our skeptical gecko hats and take a look at the hoax angle here or the made up story angle here. I got a little juicy tidbits for you to feed the gecko. Okay. On this one. So apparently, after they fled the house relatively quickly after that, they met up with this guy named William Weber, who happened to be the lawyer of the Defeo son who murdered the family.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh.

[Brian Sigley]

And allegedly, they all cooked up the story that this was a haunted house and all that kind of stuff.

[McLeod Andrews]

Okay.

[Brian Sigley]

Webber later admitted this to the Associated Press.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh.

[Brian Sigley]

He could have been bitter, though, because they were gonna write the book with him, apparently. And then they left and went to.

[McLeod Andrews]

This other guy, and he was like, no, no, no. This was all fake.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah. One more little tidbit suggesting this might be a hoax is that the Lutzes insist that when they were in the house, they claim to see hoofprints in the snow. Remember that? They were only in the house for 28 days, and people have looked. And during those 28 days, it never snowed on Long Island. So those are all kind of little pieces that imply that there might be a little more going on here than meets the eye in terms of Scooby doing this a little bit. Sure. But let's put on the believer beaver hat. And take a look at this as either a real haunting or I guess you could really head into demonic infestation territory here. Because this isn't just nice ghosts.

[McLeod Andrews]

No.

[Brian Sigley]

You know, so any thoughts on that before I give you some food for thought?

[McLeod Andrews]

I mean, demonic presences, just straight up. It just has to be what they said it was. If it's believer beaver territory, then it's just straight up like the devil owns this house and drives people mad.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah, no, I think there's something to be said for that because could have driven that guy to kill his family.

[McLeod Andrews]

But so then the question, even within the believer beaver construct, you gotta ask, why only the Lutzes?

[Brian Sigley]

Yes.

[McLeod Andrews]

And maybe the Defeo guy too. Like the Defeo guy and the Lutzes. And then the Lutzes left and what the devil was just like, Ah, nothing. I'm done here.

[Brian Sigley]

Well, it apparently followed them because they started levitating elsewhere.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh, right, right.

[Brian Sigley]

It doesn't sound like they were haunted for the rest of their lives by.

[McLeod Andrews]

Anything other than by money.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah, absolutely. That said, though, there are a lot of the hallmarks of this story match, I guess, what you would consider the infestation stage of possession. So, you know, you've got the footsteps, you got the foul odors, you got the disturbed sleep, like bizarre, impossible things like the slime and the flies. And now related to demonic infestation and the occult. I guess twist here is that Daniel, the son who we mentioned earlier, says that George Lutz, the character you read, was into the occult.

[McLeod Andrews]

Well, this is exactly what I was. My next question was going to be, tell me more about George Lutz and his history and like, his awareness potentially of the kind of story structure behind these types of events.

[Brian Sigley]

Well, I think. I hadn't thought of it that way, but it would seem that if he's into the occult, he would be well versed with all of these things in order to cook up a story like this. Although his son suggests that his father may have invited the evil. That doesn't necessarily make sense to me though, because the evil was clearly in the house when the Defeo guy killed his family.

[McLeod Andrews]

Right.

[Brian Sigley]

So I am no expert in occult things. So I don't know how invitations or summoning or any of that kind of stuff works. I think it's food for thought, though.

[McLeod Andrews]

I don't know. I don't. My, my, My beaver teeth ain't too sharp on this one.

[Brian Sigley]

Okay, well, let me give you one more. There was a renowned paranormal investigator named Hans Holzer who said that the murders and hauntings were caused by a spiritual thing, not necessarily something demonic, but it was a spirit of a Native American chief whose burial ground the house had been built over.

[McLeod Andrews]

Oh, like the poltergeist style.

[Brian Sigley]

Exactly. You know, which to me seems like. Is that a little bit Hollywood? A little Hollywood, exactly. But there's a newspaper article from 1885 that says that the remains of Iroquois tribe members were found buried on the very land that the Amityville house stood.

[McLeod Andrews]

Gotcha. Okay. Not like an official burial ground, but there were buried bodies.

[Brian Sigley]

Native Americans who were. Who were buried and dug up there. So I don't know what to make of it. You know, again, like, I'm not an expert in the occult or in demonic stuff, really. I think the closest we've come to anything demonic, really, has been the Roland Doe exorcism episode. Episode that we did.

[McLeod Andrews]

Right, right, right, right.

[Brian Sigley]

But if I'm wearing my believer beaver hat and this is actually true. It is indeed terrifying.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, It's. It's the worst. I mean, and. And. And to be perfectly clear for you and everybody, even though I. I think listening to the information, I'm pretty. Pretty, you know, firmly planted on my. My geck. I wouldn't. I don't want to go in this house.

[Brian Sigley]

No.

[McLeod Andrews]

Like, again, I have a very strong imagination, and I would never. I would. I don't want to be within 10ft of this place.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah.

[McLeod Andrews]

I don't want to be in the city.

[Brian Sigley]

You know, it reminds me of when we did the Charman episode and talked about urban legends and, like, Bloody Mary. How, Like, I don't think Bloody Mary is a thing. But I am not going to walk into the bathroom.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah.

[Brian Sigley]

And test it to find out.

[McLeod Andrews]

Right. Because we're just a couple of wusses telling lots of scary stories.

[Brian Sigley]

Can that be your new theme song? Nice. Okay, so. Sounds like you're in the skeptical gecko camp. I am, too. And it sounds to me, from all the research I did, it really does sound like most people believe that maybe something could have happened in the house, but there was a very clear effort to commercialize it. Right. And make it bigger and make it bigger and more intense. Because if it was just some creaky floorboards or something like that, you don't get a book and a blockbuster movie out of that.

[McLeod Andrews]

Right. And, you know, I know we're kind of wrapping up here, but, like, I guess I would be willing to entertain something subtler happening. There was a kernel in here that just got, you know, Hyperbolized that was exaggerated, but that there was some kind of creepy event that maybe happened to the son who says he believes in the haunting, but it wasn't this kind of 28 days of insanity phantasmagoria of horrors.

[Brian Sigley]

So that's the Amityville house. Kind of the big boy of haunted house stories, I guess. And, you know, I think the consensus seems to be it might be a hoax.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah.

[Brian Sigley]

But great story nonetheless, which is why I was so excited to do it on here.

[McLeod Andrews]

Yeah, definitely a story that freaks me out because I can really imagine it's houses, man. I can imagine just kind of rattling around a house and kind of like also, like, it's such a. It's like scary in the way dementia is scary. Like, the idea of, like, not being able to trust what you see and what you hear, not being able to trust your is personally a very scary concept. And that that leads you to hurting people you love is very upsetting for me.

[Brian Sigley]

But listeners, if you have any experience in Amityville, if you've been to Amityville, let us know. Hit us up on Instagram, itingspod or try us on Spotify in their comments. We love responding to those.

[McLeod Andrews]

All right, so all that said, Brian, I am ready to flee this haunted house. And it's that time where I gotta know where we're heading.

[Brian Sigley]

Next week we are heading to Canada. Next week, we are going to head to the best documented UFO sighting in Canadian history.

[McLeod Andrews]

Awesome. Best documented.

[Brian Sigley]

I'm not going to say what it is, but it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. There's going to be pictures.

[McLeod Andrews]

Pictures.

[Brian Sigley]

Yeah, it's. It's pretty awesome. So stay tuned for that same time, same place, right here on Sightings. Sightings is hosted by McLeod Andrews and Brian Sigley. Produced by Brian Sigley, chase Kinzer and McLeod Andrews. Written by Brian Sigley. Story music by Jack Staton. Series music by Mitch Bain. Mixing and mastering by Pat Kicklater of Sundial Media. Artwork by Nuno Sarnatos. For a list of this episode's sources, check out our [e-mail] Sightings is presented by Reverb and Q Code. If you like the show, be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you're first to hear new episodes every week. And if you know other Supernatural fans, tell them about us. We'd really appreciate it.