← Simon Dixon Hard Talk
Simon Dixon Hard Talk
How Iran is Using Bitcoin to Bypass SWIFT & Lloyd's of London | Simon Dixon
00:40:07
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- [00:01]
A
Appreciate you guys joining in. Huge news today. Iran has now added more information about their control of the Strait of Hormuz. They've now already recharging at all. They already had control over the Strait of Ramus. They created a body that governs the Strait of Hormuz today. In addition to that, they'd already applied legislation and as per how they were going to administer movement pertaining to the Strait of Ramuz. And today they've basically said that they're going to be providing insurance for the Strait of Her Moose, the insurance that will replace the city of London, Lloyds of London, UK British insurance companies, and you can pay that insurance via bitcoin. People are saying this could amount to billions of dollars of revenue. We've got the OG bitcoin expert coming onto the show, Simon Dixon, who's going to speak about this, who's going to break this down for us. He's going to tell us his thoughts, what all of this means, what the ramifications of this is, how this is going to impact bitcoin, one of the major travel corridors, charging bitcoin. That is shocking. There is going to be question marks about some of the things we discussed earlier, which is how is this going to be administered if someone peers in bitcoin, does that bitcoin now become dark money? Will it become banned? These are all of the questions that we're going to be asking Simon Dixon. Just want to welcome Simon onto the show. Simon is a bitcoin OG A Appreciate him taking his time out. How are you, Sam?
- [01:47]
B
Can you hear me okay? I can hear you well. Can you hear me okay?
- [01:51]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, you look tired. Sorry I've kept you up this late.
- [01:55]
B
No worries. Yeah, I'm on, I'm on the move, but it's 2am here and I'm in a little hotel setup. But the show must go on.
- [02:03]
A
The show must go on, Simon. As soon as this went in, I thought there's no one going to be more excited than Simon Dixon about this. So. So I've already explained to the people what's happening. It's the straight of a moose insurance, bitcoin being charged. What's your overarching thoughts on it and this impact of insurance and bitcoin?
- [02:26]
B
Yeah, so there's a couple of things that are happening here. So firstly, they launched a website and with on that website you're able to, if you want to get a shipment through and you want to get a cargo through, then you register all your details. Now, I'm speculating a Little bit here on what it is going to be, but we'll find out as the details come out. But so then you can apply to Iran in order to get your, your shipment through. Now historically there's two choke points, you know, outside of just the Strait of Hamus. One is that you need to get insurance. No one is able to take on the risk of that cargo shipment not getting through. And so the number one by far maritime insurance groups is Lloyd's of London. And Lloyds of London still dominates the insurance market. I mean, it's one of the earliest market where wealthy oligarchs would, you know, get together and they would take on and assume the risk, but they would receive insurance premium. And it's one of the oldest financial products that exists in the world. And still to this day Lloyds, Lloyds of London dominates. So if you want to get a shipment through, you need to get insurance. And the other thing you need to do is you need to pay. And so you pay for that insurance and you pay a premium. You don't get that insurance back. It's just a contract. You factor into the cost and, and then you need to, in, you know, you need to make some kind of transfer into either the dollar system or the pound system. And that creates demand for pounds. And in the case of Lloyds of London, and so people need to buy pounds in order to get that insurance. And so that creates demand for the currency. Then what they do is they invest that money in the financial markets and it provides a source of, you know, well, a source of investment, passive investment into the stock market, the bond market, the financial markets as well. And, and then there's a reinsurance market where some people take that insurance and then sell it to someone else. And they, and that all happens via Barbados and various other British colonies and things that have emerged and gone independent over time. So that's the insurance side. The swift side is what allows sanctions to exist. So if you're making payments, then you go, you know, you go through payment rails and they sit on top of the, the banking system and the banking system sits on top of the Federal Reserve System. And the Federal Reserve system through dollar dominance is able to exert sanctions. And so any bank that wants to settle in dollars has to be a member of the Federal Reserve or go via a member of the Federal Reserve via an intermediary bank. And so if a country says, I want to trade with Iran, I don't recognize your sanctions. They have to have significant leverage like India does it, China does it, Russia does it? But in order to do that, you risk losing clearing to your federal, the Fed and dollars. And so India has enough of a trade relationship to say I'm going to ignore your sanctions and China has enough leverage to say I'm not going to ignore your sanctions. You can sanction the payment, but we're going to find another route around whether it's via the gold markets, the oil markets or these different markets that were set up and America allows it because there's a bit of strategic ambiguity. And so these different markets have been set up and that's where you get vast demand for gold to fiat currency and more recently gold to bitcoin in certain centers. One of those is Hong Kong, the other is uae. And so these centers of gold for bitcoin and then bitcoin to trade and then Shanghai wanting gold. And that's really one of the only ways of getting Chinese yuan. And then with Chinese Yuan you're able to buy imports outside of the dollar system. You get this whole market that exists and whenever there's sanctions, there's discounts on all of those services. And then there's countries that say it's worth it for me to get discounted oil because of that. So what this does is it breaks all of that in one fell swoop. And so what Iran is effectively saying is we will in, we will guarantee the shipment. And the way that we'll guarantee it is not by traditional insurance and reinsurance. We're going to set up a bitcoin payment and within that bitcoin payment it will actually embed cryptographically the insurance contract. So the payment becomes the insurance. And not only that, so you would get cryptographic proof via the bitcoin blockchain that you paid and that acts as your insurance. And then it's set up what it looks like. This is a bit of speculation, but I think this is what they're getting at. It becomes a multi signature transaction. So this is something you can't do with a traditional fiat currency. You could do it with any cryptocurrency, but prior to this we saw that stablecoins have a centralized issuer. So if you want to freeze a stable coin, you call up tether, you say you're breaking the law, please freeze. If you do it with any other cryptocurrency other than bitcoin, we had it like for Arbitrum for example, a bunch of hacking happened and there was a bunch of cryptocurrency that needed to be seized. And the foundation that was VC funded connected to the token because all other tokens come from some human or some foundation decided to freeze the tokens. And this happened with Arbitrum recently during some defi hacks recently. Bitcoin's the only one where you can't do that because there's no issuer, there's no foundation, there's no company, there's no VC that funded it, there's no door to knock on. It's backed by the largest distributed supercomputer in the world. It's open source code. And in fact, Iran is one of the largest sovereign bitcoin miners in the world as a nation state on their own balance sheet. So what this, what this does is it creates a multi signature transaction. So if you would like to get through the straight of a moose right now, I do want to give a quick disclaimer. I'm not advising anyone, neither of us are advising anyone on how to avoid sanctions. If you avoid sanctions, it is a serious legal consequences. You know, this is, this is just for educational purposes to try and understand what's happening here. So what, what, you know, what is you, you, you basically can have this multi signature transaction and the way that people right now, for example, if you want to buy bitcoin in a decentralized way, you have to go to a decentralized exchange and you can have a multi signature transaction, which means that three parties need to sign in order to transfer the coins. Or two of three parties. And so you on one side can say, I would like to send this bitcoin into a multi sig transaction. The other recipient can receive it, but the coins cannot be transferred until a third party says this was received. And so the third party can act as a decentralized mediator. What this does is it kind of turns insurance upside down because it's saying until we can take the risk, we can guarantee it. We want to have safe passage as a sovereign state, we guarantee that. But the transaction doesn't settle and the funds are not received until you've received your shipment. And we can embed the insurance contract into the payment and anyone can do that. Now if you want to do that, then you have to take your currency. And at the nation state level they can print their own currency. They can then do it from within their country and buy some bitcoin at an, at an exchange. The largest exchanges that would be most relevant for this, there are ones in Iran, there are ones in uae, there are ones in Hong Kong. And these are deeply liquid markets for local fiat currencies. As well as into gold and as well as being connected to the China payment routes. And so what this does is it circumvents SWIFT to weaponize the payment. It circumvents sanctions for anyone that's willing to take on the legal risk and the consequences for doing such a thing. Again, not advice. This is just what's happening. And it circumvents Lloyds of London. So you've taken out Europe, London and America from the transaction and you've built a next generation insurance and payment contract based upon a globally neutral currency that has no centralized issuer or central bank in order to weaponize the transaction.
- [13:01]
A
Okay, so a few questions on this. So I understand what you're saying. Now the question mark here is first of all, a few elements to it. Can they do this without, for example, Lloyds of London? Because imagine the first ship you goes through, I don't know, it gets hit, you're not going to have the revenue to be able to pay for it. You need to have this established over time before you get to an extreme profit making situation. Right.
- [13:28]
B
Yeah. So I mean, you know, Iran's taking on the risk here. What they're going to do with that risk is another question. We don't, we don't have the details yet, but Iran is saying we can get you through the straight of Horus and if you pay our fee, we'll factor into the toll fee. And then what would typically happen with that is you could take all those toll fees, you could put it into a fund, you could hold it in Bitcoin, you could do, you know, and, and you could manage, you know, as an actuary would, how much of that do we need to, you know, do we need to have on reserves in case one of these shipments goes wrong? And so they will have a whole insurance team assuming for managing such risks. Then the real question becomes are they happy to manage that? Because do they believe that America will enforce the blockade? And that really tests the next phase of the world order, which is that historically the Dutch, British and European and American empires have ensured free trade and free passage. And over time we have seen the countries carve out a little canal and then they either nationalize it or they try and privatize it. And the most famous example is the fights that have happened over the Panama Canal and the Suez Canal. And both of those are coming into question right now, right at the same time as we're questioning the straight of Hormuz. And, and so if they can ensure safe passage and there isn't anything that America can do about it, then you've also disrupted that side of the world order. And we are in a completely different world order.
- [15:29]
A
So another question I've got for you is in terms of the insurance, my understanding is that to ensure a vessel, the cost of having a vessel insured in the straight arm rules can be anything from, I don't know, like $500,000 to even 5 to $7 million, depending on the, if it's, if there's high tension situation, which it is now. So if this was to work out, that would be a significant amount of accumulation of wealth for Iran, first part. And the second part is they're doing it through Bitcoin. This is accumulating bitcoin, right? It is creating a bitcoin fund. If they were to just use that in bitcoin, create a fund, they would almost be creating like a bitcoin style wealth fund, right?
- [16:16]
B
Yeah. Well, here's where it gets quite interesting. Because Iran under sanctions is under pretty severe financial distress and so, you know, ends up in a, in a, you know, in a trade deficit. It doesn't bring in enough tax. Now it doesn't run significant debt because, you know, debt is a prohibited activity, but it does have some debt. And so if they were able to bring 2 to 4 million barrels of oil on, per day, which is the capacity, and that would obviously that would have to be negotiated with opec because they're part of opec. And if they were no longer selling it at a discount and they were to develop a new financial system based upon bitcoin, they're already the largest sovereign bitcoin miner and they've already got, if they are allowed that one so far in the negotiation, allegedly there's one nuclear civilian power plant allowed, whatever that may be, they could use that for bitcoin mining, which would undercut many of the American miners, which would be having to mine at double the cost, especially at these energy prices compared to what Iran could mine in nuclear with nuclear energy mining. They would be, you know, they would be significant. They would have a significant advantage in terms of bitcoin mining. They would create a new insurance industry that's based upon a neutral currency that can't be weaponized. And they could take a percentage of that bitcoin and put it into a sovereign wealth fund. And once you're a sovereign wealth fund, you're able to use your Bitcoin in order to build out an entirely new financial system. And so, you know that, that, you know, this could lead to a Series of steps. And remember, if you want to. If you need to, if you're Taiwan and you need to get your oil and you want to get it, you know, if you. If we're in a. A different situation where China and Taiwan putting, you know, diplomatic ties together, America is becoming chip independent, and Taiwan wants to integrate into a new order, then they have to take their currency, they have to buy Bitcoin, and that creates a structural demand for Bitcoin in this new financial system. So, yeah, it could be very beneficial. And then if they're holding their value in hard money, which historically has outperformed inflation over the long term, then they could be building up their national security by utilizing Bitcoin and building their Bitcoin strategic reserves.
- [19:12]
A
Okay, and essentially how big is this for Bitcoin? Because would this be one of the first huge moves where Bitcoin is being used as a form of major insurance through a huge trade route?
- [19:27]
B
Yeah, this would be a first. If this, if this beta were to turn into something and this is how they innovate, and then it continues on, then, yeah, this is not factored into the bitcoin price yet as a success story. So this could be a. Yeah, this could be a big deal if this is how it goes. And. And it also provides leverage in your negotiations, because if you can prove that, right, we have the central bank digital currency route, which many countries are developing, we have the integration into SIPs, and we have the Bitcoin route, and we have the historical legacy gold trade routes, then, yeah, the dollar weaponization is already useless in terms of Iran can function without dollars, and they've already built the alternative rails. But now it's just a question of the growth that could be achieved if they can negotiate a settlement that leads to the lifting of sanctions. And ironically, the bond market's blowing out. Taco Tuesday is upon us, and the tools are getting more and more desperate. And the tool that was just announced is that they're looking at taking the sanctioned oil that is on the sea again from both Iran and Russia. And Scott percent just announced it officially for Russia, and then there was press announcements that they're going to be doing the same for Iran. So, again, not legal advice as it currently stands. If there is an exemption for the next 30 days on Iranian oil, then people can pay with Bitcoin, and that's all fair game to do this beta test for the next 30 days.
- [21:25]
A
Interesting. And that brings me to the next questions, because I know you answered it in terms of the Iranian oil not being Sanctioned. But in terms of sanctions, we were having this discussion, you weren't there, which was about bitcoin in a situation where it's sanctioned. And what I mean by that is if one was to trade bitcoin with Iran when it's sanctioned, basically Gary was saying that then that basically bitcoin would be marked and you would not be able to use it. Is that the case? And if that's the case, like isn't that serious limits on bitcoin
- [22:02]
B
Iran? I, I'm going to be very careful with my language here again because this is all common knowledge. I'm just sharing things that are very well understood. But there is a case where somebody in, was advising North Korea on how to, how bitcoin works and, and that person ended up in prison. So I'm, I'm just being very careful with my words here because that's not the goal of this.
- [22:29]
A
But yeah, we're just trying.
- [22:32]
B
This is how bitcoin works. There is technology called coinjoin and a coinjoin is a type of wallet where once you send it to a Coin join, transactions get mixed with millions of other transactions and people can't trace it from there. And so that's what a lot of people use as privacy tools. And so whenever I want to keep my transactions private, I use a, I use a coinjoin. And this is built, you know, this is very old technology.
- [23:09]
A
Is it legal to use coinjoin?
- [23:10]
B
It's completely legal to use it, yeah. Not legal advice. Check with your, your country. But there has been precedent and part of the, you know, the, the act, a part of the debate around Genius act, which is legislation that passed around stablecoin was to ensure that people could have their Bitcoin in self custody. And Bitcoin has been classified not as, you know, it's more clarity. Act is trying to define it as a commodity right now it's currently property. But that, that means that it's not regulated by the SEC or the CFTC and it's more treated as property. And the reason it's treated as property is because they want to tax on, on the gains. And so yeah, and using a Coin join is completely legal. You are allowed private, you are allowed privacy. If you are a financial institution, then you have to ensure that all transactions follow the bank secrecy act and the travel rule and the new regulations that are going through. But as it currently stands, there's not any law that I'm aware of that prevents people using a coinjoin.
- [24:33]
A
Okay. Now another question I had for you was, from my understanding, again, we were talking about this earlier in the space, was that you can have a situation where a country, let's say United States of America, can decide, you know what, for example, let's say I was a US Citizen. I said, oh, guess what, Solomon? We're now going to be taking all your bitcoin and they can then blacklist your bitcoin or they can freeze your bitcoin. Now, is that true? And if it is, like, how is that any different to traditional fiat?
- [25:02]
B
No, they can't. Okay, so there's two things there. Firstly, can a government say holding bitcoin is illegal? Well, yeah, they can do that. And then whether there's constitutional protections in terms of whichever country you're in, whether bitcoin is considered speech. There was a trend and Shavers case, one of the very earliest cases in bitcoin and the classified bitcoin as money and property. And so there's, there's the, there's. There's precedent, you know, for that. So can they say it's illegal to hold bitcoin? If they want to do that, they can. And they've done that in 1933 with gold. They said, it's illegal for you to own gold. Please hand it in. And they could do that with any asset. Why they, why they would single out bitcoin would be beyond me. The difference with gold and bitcoin is that gold. There was actually a gold standard in 1933, and there was a shortage of gold due to the Great Depression and people were converting their dollars to gold. And so they said, we want your gold and we'll give you dollars. Instead. They didn't just seize it. They said, you can get $35 for your gold per. Per ounce. Because they needed the gold, because there was a gold standard. And so they don't need bitcoin. You know, there is no convertibility requirement where you can bring in your dollars, and the government guarantees that it will be converted into bitcoin. That doesn't exist. And so that president is not an exact match. So that's the first aspect of it. But let's say they said you have to hand in your bitcoin. And bitcoin ownership is illegal as an individual. Yeah. As an. Firstly, what can they confiscate? They can confiscate any bitcoin that you hold with a custodian because they're a regulated financial institution. And so they would call up Coinbase and say, give us all the bitcoin. And here's the Dollars you're going to give them and call up the BlackRock, say cancel the BlackRock ETF and here's the dollars you're gonna have to give them and send us the bitcoin. They'd call up strategy and say give us your bitcoin. Because it's a public company, the individuals, they'd have to be required to hand in their bitcoin. And so that would be you deciding you have to follow the law. And you made that decision. You know, enforceability is another thing. You know, drugs are illegal, but enforceability of drugs is complicated. But who wants to break the law? So that would be a decision people make.
- [27:55]
A
But I can't understand what you mean there. But I guess let's say myself, I'm just taking my as a hypothetical. I don't have bitcoin. Right. Well, except for no point, no summer. But anyway, the, what you call it again? Let's say I had a bitcoin wallet which was in self custody. So a self custody bitcoin wallet, can they freeze that self custer custody bitcoin wallet?
- [28:18]
B
That's what I'm asking. Impossible.
- [28:20]
A
Ah, okay.
- [28:21]
B
So that's okay, okay, impossible. They can only go to if you don't have Bitcoin, but you log into your Coinbase account and Coinbase tells you they owe you a bitcoin, then that's not bitcoin. If you have Bitcoin in a hardware wallet, there's nobody in the world that can freeze Bitcoin, Bitcoin. It's impossible. What, what they could do is they could say you withdrew Bitcoin from Coinbase and they could put a court order out to Coinbase and say Coinbase. Can you tell me, can you give me the account data of all the American customers and can you tell me the entire history of wallets that they withdrew to? And then they could say all of these wallet addresses are sanctioned wallet addresses. And what that would mean is that if any financial institution receive Bitcoin from a sanctioned wallet address, they then have to file a suspicious activity report and report that transaction to the authorities. And if they don't do it, they are committing a crime. And so you could blacklist wallet addresses. But as I said, what most people do for privacy reasons, which is completely legal, is they receive their self custody bitcoin into a coin joined wallet, which means that every time you send a transaction it creates a new wallet address and it mixes those transactions with millions of other transactions.
- [30:01]
A
Okay, that makes sense. Now coming back to the conversation we were having about the Bitcoin. If Iran was to do this, in terms of the specific accumulation of bitcoin, what would be the reason why they were making this move towards Bitcoin? Is it because, for example, they've experienced their own currency being crushed and then you don't want to basically go into any other currency and this becomes some kind of safety net? Like, what's the reason why they've moved towards bitcoin in terms of this mode that they're trying to do?
- [30:35]
B
Well, bitcoin, much like gold, was created by God, nature, and it was in the ground and people pulled it out of the ground. No one can create more gold. It's the same with bitcoin. If you want to participate in creating bitcoin, then you need to expand electricity, you need to build a bitcoin mining operation, and you need to have an edge over other. Over other bitcoin miners, like nuclear energy or whatever. It may be cheaper electricity. And so anybody. There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin. And all bitcoin miners compete. There's only another million bitcoin to mine. And once they're all mined, by 2140, there will be no more Bitcoin. So bitcoin acts as hard money with the Iranian currency. They can print it. They have a central bank, and that central bank has the right and authority to print as much of that currency as they want. Now, because it is in an open market, the only country in the world that really protects their currency is China. They're very strict. They have severe capital controls. But historically, whenever the British or American empire wishes to take control of your country and regime change, you, it always begins with a currency war. And so one of the other markets in London that still persists is the FX market, the foreign exchange market. And so whenever you took an IMF loan historically, or whenever the Shah was in charge of Iran, their job would be to open up their market and make their currency freely tradable against all other currencies. And what that means at that stage is that they try and destroy the value of your currency. Just like Scott Bessent admitted to prior to Operation Epic Fury. They will use Lloyds of London, an economic hitman like Scott Besant that used to work for George Soros, who has a track record of doing this, will destroy your currency in order to destroy the savings of the locals so that they are financially impacted. And they try and uprise and they get, you know, more and more distress within their. Within their country. And what they will try to do is they'll try and issue you dollar loans. And if you borrow those dollars, you are now subordinate to the US Empire because they can say you have to pay us this amount of dollars. And then what does the current, what does the local country do? Well, if they're suffering from economic distress, then they take the currency that they can print, which is their local currency, and then they buy dollars with it. And what happens? What's the consequence of that? You destroy the value, debase the value of people's savings and then you can end up in, if you can't find enough dollars to repay, you end up subordinate to other countries and you can end up in the extremes like Zimbabwe and Argentina where you just print so much that the value of your currency disappears and you end up in a hyperinflation recycle. This has been the number one tool of empire. All wars start with currency wars. And they're currently raging one against Turkey right now to get them to sell their gold. And they did it with Iran recently and they're going to do, they're doing it across Central and South America, you know, with Venezuela, with Argentina, you know, just the list goes on and on and on. And those operations still happen for, you know, via the FX markets in the investment banks of London in cooperation with New York. And so when you use Bitcoin, there isn't an investment bank in the world that can print Bitcoin. And so they can manipulate the short term price of bitcoin, but it's like manipulating the short term price of gold. It's a global neutral currency and gold is physical and this one's digital. And so it opens up interesting new attack vectors. But if you, you know, El Salvador, for example, severe IMF debt, you know, lots of wars, but they're just buying one bitcoin a day into their country's Bitcoin strategic reserves in their sovereign wealth fund. And they're trying to build purchasing power to eventually be able to utilize that to negotiate their way out of imf. Economic hitman, basically.
- [35:28]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. And it seems like what you're suggesting is Iran's strategy, if enacted on properly long term, could end up becoming and putting them and placing them into becoming a major powerhouse.
- [35:42]
B
Right? Yeah. And it could also make the whole region independent when you look at the corridors that have been set up. And so if you think about the gold markets, the Hong Kong markets, the UAE market, the Iran market, that triangle completely circumvents the, you know, that, that the, the system. And so the more that the gcc and Iran can be normalized via the China corridors. And the fact that China is their number one customer for all of these oil purchases and the fact that you can settle some of that in, in, you know, Petro Yuan and Petrodollar and the fact that the new future commodity of the world is semiconductor chips and liquefied natural gas for AI and robotics, you can corner that whole market. And that's where as a region they are incredibly powerful if they can free themselves from the boot of the dollar. Because Qatar has the largest lng, Taiwan has the semiconductor chips. China has the manufacturing base. Iran seems to have the Bitcoin strategy and UAE has the gold corridors and the sanction circumvention routes. And Saudi Arabia has oil that can be produced at 2 to 10 cents. America needs $40 per oil to not go bankrupt for Chevron. And Exxon. Saudi can do it for two to two to ten dollars. You put all of that together and this is why America and the British, Britain always wanted the Middle east destabilized and China subordinate. Because this is, this is, this is, this is what they always tried to prevent.
- [37:58]
A
Yeah. And let's hope it succeeds. Now, one last question. The Iranian stock market, I believe that reopened today. Or was it anyways, today or next week. What's your thoughts on that?
- [38:11]
B
I mean, it's a very internal, you know, it's, it's a very internal market. It's not a market I've studied too much. But my guess is it's similar to Venezuela.
- [38:22]
A
Yeah.
- [38:22]
B
Where Venezuelan stock exchange was kind of dominated internally via like, you know, wealthy families that control much of the, the infrastructure, a few banks and financial institutions and some of the, you know, the, the pension, local pension funds. Because Iran has been a, you know, a market that has, and they protect themselves from external forces because they're sanctioned obviously. So these are all very, very important factors. But I think the fact that Iran I'm interpreting that, that maybe part of the negotiations that we're headed towards is that the, these, you know, these markets are going to be opened up. But if they're integrated into the China rails and the Bitcoin rails and the gold rails, there'll be safeguards to ensure that they can't be abused. Like what's happening in Venezuela immediately. You know, the Venezuelan stock exchange went up like 300% but it was controlled by, you know, a very, very small, it's not like all of the Venezuelan people. I'm not sure what the distribution of stocks within Iran is, but yeah, I, I I'll do a bit of study on that. I haven't studied it.
- [39:46]
A
Interesting. Simon, always appreciate you coming on. Always value you. Where I know people can find you on your show, which is Simon Dixon, 21. And they can also find you on Twitter, which is Salmon Dixon, twit. But appreciate you coming on.
- [40:04]
B
Okay, thanks, someone.
- [40:06]
A
Appreciate it. Thank you so much.