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Simple Farmhouse Life
257. Answering sourdough questions: discard recipes, baking schedule, favorite tools, and more!
00:37:18
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Well, you can't learn if you don't start. So I would just try. There's always something you can do with the mess ups. I've never had some. Well, never, I guess maybe like less than five times. So less than a handful of times have I ever just said, okay, I'm gonna literally throw this away to the chickens. Very, very rare. I've been baking sourdough for 13 years and even when you mess up, there's always something that you can do with the mess ups. Whether you're making sourdough breadcrumbs for French toast croutons. My name is Lisa, mother of eight and creator of the blog and YouTube channel Farmhouse on Boone. Join me as I share with you my love for creating a handmade home from scratch cooking and a little mom and entrepreneur life along the way. Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. Today I'm going to be doing part two of the Sourdough Q and A. I'm noticing that my microphone is in need of a new cover. So if you're watching on YouTube and you're thinking, what on earth is going on with her microphone? Well, I have had this microphone now for what I've been doing YouTube videos for seven years now and I do cooking. So there's probably like sourdough starter on this. It's been through the wringer and I've never replaced my microphone in all of these years. So if you're watching on YouTube and you're thinking, what on earth? That's the reason for it, I should do that right after I get off of here. Okay. So in my last Q and A solo episode, I talked about sourdough. I answered some of your most commonly frequently asked questions and I got through Flavor storage, refrigeration, starter questions, gluten free, fitting it into your schedule. I believe we are going to go down to recipes, general advice, proofing and timing, flour and troubleshooting, and then after this episode, I'll be back to my regularly scheduled Q and A episodes I'm doing throughout this whole year. Every third episode, a solo episode, and answering some of your other questions. So if you're not interested in sourdough, don't worry, we'll get back to that. But a lot of you are. I keep thinking sourdough is going to wane in popularity at some point because it's been going Strong ever since 2020. I started mine back when my oldest, or no, my second was a baby in 2010. But someh it all just hit 10 years later and it's still going strong and a lot of you are still brand new on your sourdough journey, so I would love to help you with that. If you aren't familiar with my podcast, if you're brand new and you stumbled across this episode, I do have a blog called Farmhouse on Boone where I share just about every recipe you could ever imagine pertaining to sourdough. So if there's something you want to try sourdough, head over to farmhouse onboone.com I also do have a YouTube channel where I show it more in action. So I'll be doing like A Day in the Life or a homemaker style video and I will show you just how I'm doing sourdough. So on my blog I kind of explain it very step by step. This is how many cups I'm doing. This is the type of flour. But then on YouTube I'm kind of more feeling it like how I really use sourdough in my everyday life, which isn't so rigid. So by the book. So that's kind of where you'll get both types of content. So let's go into a few of these questions and if you didn't hear the last episode on this, make sure to catch up on all the other sourdough FAQs. Okay, the first one is how do you adapt any recipe to make it sourdough? Still struggling to get the ratios right. So I have a blog post on this and I talk about taking out a third a cup of the liquid from the recipe, a third a cup of the flour. Because if you add to a bowl 1/3 cup flour and 1/3 cup water and you stir it up and you put it into a measuring cup, you will see that that equals half a cup of starter. So if you're adding a half a cup of starter for your yeast, you are essentially adding a third a cup of flour and a third a cup of water so you can subtract those from the flour and liquid of the original recipe. Now with all that being said, I do not do that. So again, my blog is where I spell it out for you if you want like very specific instructions. I've thought it through on how if you're brand new, you're going to want to do something. But if you are someone who likes to wing it more in your kitchen, which is me all the time. Which is why it was hard to be a blogger and recipe tester. Because when I first started blogging I kind of just like told people how I was doing it and I got so many questions all the time. People wanted by the letter, specific stuff. So I've adapted and I've learned that. But in real life, how I adapt a recipe to sourdough is if it calls for yeast, I just replace that yeast with a half a cup of starter. I figure what's a little extra water and a little extra flour, they kind of make up for each other when they're added to a recipe. Works fabulously. So you can do it that real specific way or you can just add the starter as your yeast. One other adjustment you're going to need to do is it'll need to rise a little bit longer because if the recipe says for the first rise, rise until double or about an hour. An instant yeast will rise in about an hour in a warm spot, whereas a sourdough will take a lot longer. Plus, you're looking for the gut healthy benefits of it to do a long fermentation. Now, if the only reason you're doing it sourdough is to get the gut health benefits. So there's no yeast in the recipe. It's maybe a quick recipe like baking soda or baking powder as the leavener and you're just wanting to ferment the grains. Again, I would add about a cup of starter with the liquid portion of the recipe and the flour portion of the recipe, allow that to sit overnight to do its work on the grains and then the next day add in the leaveners like the baking powder, the baking soda. Now, what you'll add the day before really is up to your preference. So if the recipe calls for milk and eggs and you're uncomfortable letting that sit out to ferment with your grains, going to have a hard time hydrating the flour because you're taking a lot of that liquid out, hoping to add it the next day so it won't sit out at room temperature. I personally am comfortable adding in the eggs and the milk and the honey and the water and. Or the milk or milk or water, whatever it has with the flour in order to let it do its long fermentation with the starter. If you did not hear the episode I did. I believe it was around last Christmas with Ashley Turner from Turner Farm. She talked about the science behind that and how actually the action that the starter is doing with the fermentation process makes it less risky with the eggs and the milk. I know that if you're just now switching over to a more whole food from scratch kitchen, it can feel a bit uncomfortable to leave things like that out that you've been told to always put away in the fridge. I completely understand that. When I first started with sourdough, I just assumed you couldn't leave those things out, and so I never did that. If a recipe had milk in it, I would just replace it with water. So I would do water starter. The flour. If it had honey, that was really good because that was another liquid as opposed to sugar, you could replace the sugar with honey. The goal is you need to allow the grains and the starter to sit together in order for the starter to have that work on the grains to make them more digestible. But you have to hydrate the flour in order to do that. You can't just stir together, you know, the starter and the flour. It'll be a big ball of, you know, just something very dry. So if you, you can learn a few tricks like replace the sugar with honey. That'll hydrate it more. Add the oil in, Add in water instead of milk if you're not comfortable with milk sitting out. If there's eggs for me, that'll even further help it to hydrate. Hopefully that all makes sense. If you're brand new to sourdough, you might have to go back and learn why you're even doing this and why you would want starter to sit with flour for long periods of time. But recipes are very adaptable. And when you with sourdough starter, especially if you're kind of doing like equal parts flour and water, you are adding a little liquid, but you're also adding a little bit of flour. And such a small amount doesn't seem to really matter.
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With good reason.
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That is not long fermented, the only benefit a slightly sour taste or are there more benefits? Honestly, there's not and I did not understand sourdough discard recipes up until recently at all because for so many years I'd had a well established sourdough starter and the reason I was doing sourdough was to make the grains more digestible. So it never made any sense sense to me to add a half a cup of sourdough discard to a regular recipe and then call it sourdough and honestly just completely honest. This is where you get like the just the real raw behind the scenes. I still don't quite understand why you would do that. But what I learned with blogging is a lot of people are searching for that. They're literally just wanting a way to use up a little bit of their sourdough discard while they are starting a starter. So once your starter is established, it doesn't really make sense to do discard recipes anymore. That's just my personal opinion on it. Yes, a small portion of the flour in that recipe is fermented. So if you're adding a half a cup of starter to a cookie recipe then, and you're baking them right away, then a half a cup. So a third of a cup of that flour is very fermented, the rest of it is not. So unless you pop those cookie dough, let cookie dough into the fridge and let it sit in there for three days and let the flour kind of interact with the starter and do some of that gut healthy work on the grain, you're really getting no benefit at all. Except for that a third of a cup of flour and the whole recipe is fermented. So to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't if, if sourdough, if you're doing it in order to have a healthier gut and to make grains more digestible, they really don't make sense. It's just a way maybe while you're actually starting your starter. So for that week long process of starting your starter, you are able to use that discard in something instead of just having to throw it away. For me, things like pancakes that use all discard is a better way to do it. But a lot of recipes essentially, yeah, people just will add a half a cup or a cup of starter to a regular recipe and call it sourdough. It's still a conundrum to me. I think that if you do that, you should then follow the instructions in the recipe for the long fermentation. But I include both because I found out that people were looking for both. But that's kind of the my thought process behind it. Okay. How can I adjust your recipes for high altitude baking? So I honestly just don't know. I've lived in Missouri my entire life, so I do not have much experience with that. Okay. Another question kind of about the discard thing. It seems like sourdough recipes call for starter and a lot of fresh flour. I'm wanting to try to break down the gluten, but then I see recipes that add fresh flour in immediately before baking. Yeah, if you're doing this for the health benefits, which I Am I would say follow the long fermentation instructions which I always do include in the blog post and avoid the recipes that are just like quick recipes that use discard and then you instantly bake those. Really there's no benefit except for that third of a cup of flour if it's a half a cup. So most recipes you can mix them all up and then stash them in the fridge for three days and that will give it more time to sour. So yeah, if you add fresh flour to a discard recipe and then bake it right away, there's no benefit happening to the flour. Okay, general advice. I feel intimidated to start. Any encouragement. Well, you can't learn if you don't start, so I would just try. There's always something you can do with the mess ups. I've never had some, well, never, I guess maybe like less than five times. So less than a handful of times have I ever just said, okay, I'm going to literally throw this away to the chickens. But very, very rare. I've been baking sourdough for 13 years and even when you mess up, there's always something that you can do with the mess ups, whether you're making sourdough breadcrumbs, French toast, croutons, even a fry bread. So several years ago I showed on my YouTube channel where I had over fermented some a boule recipe which can really make it just a sloppy mess. You can't even really bake it. So I took that over fermented disaster that had no structure and took little parts of it, just pulled off a little bit, little bit by bit, added it to some oil in a skillet and then fried it on both sides and made a little sour but delicious fry bread side for our meal. So if you're intimidated to start, think what's the reason I'm intimidated? Is that. Is it that I'm afraid I'm going to waste something? Well, get creative and do not waste it. So I've had so many people who will write a comment, this didn't work and I had to throw it away. You don't really have to throw it away. There's almost always something you can do with it. Very, very rarely should you throw it away. So if it's waste you're worried about, don't throw anything away. You can always bake it in some capacity if you're afraid of failure. There are just so many things in life that you can't really figure out until you actually do them. So you're just going to have to start trying. Okay, do you give your babies sourdough? Or when do you start giving grains to your children? Think technically the recommendation is that you shouldn't give them anything until they're two. I think that's the gut, healthy response. I totally do give it to mine, though. Victor is 13 months, 14 months, and yeah, I've been giving him sourdough since he could pick up little bits. And I don't give him, like, that's not the cornerstone of his diet. I try to give him things like eggs and raw cheese and things like that. But he, of course, when we're eating, he wants some too. And I'll just, you know, it's not something I spoon feed him or anything, but he can, you know, whatever he can pick up and put in his mouth, he gets sourdough. Okay. Proofing and timing. How to tell when my bulk ferment is done. So the dough should still be springy. It should still have structure. You can just feel it if it's lost all of its structure, if it feels gluey and soupy with something that once felt like it was stretchy and all the gluten was developed, and all of a sudden it's like a soupy mess. That's when you know it's gone too far. It kind of takes just observing that process a lot in order for you to know. And it'll change with the seasons. So in the wintertime, I can stash my bread dough in the pantry where it's a little bit cool. There's no vents in there, so the heat doesn't really get in there. I don't know what temperature it is, but I can stash it for 24 hours. Whereas in the summer, if I put something in a really warm spot in my kitchen, three or four hours might cause it to be not really over fermented. But any, any more than that could be over fermented. So it just takes feeling it. How to adjust recipes based on the temperature of your home. So that'll just depend on how long you let it go. So how long you're going to let it ferment based on the temperature of your home. Other than that, you don't really have to adjust the recipes more just the timing. Okay. Detailed timing, like what time do you start it, stretch and fold, bake, et cetera. I never seem to be able to get at a time where I wouldn't have to get up in the middle of the night for at least one part. Okay. So sourdough is really so Very flexible. I sometimes will start it at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. I sometimes will start it at 9:00 at night. It does take knowing the temperature of your kitchen. So I'm more confident starting bread at say, 7pm in the cooler months than I am in the middle of summer. So if your kitchen is 80 degrees and you mix up your bread at 7pm, you do a few stretch and folds throughout the evening. Maybe you go put the kids to bed, then you stretch and fold and then you go wash your face, read a book, then you come, stretch and fold and then you watch a show and you come, stretch and fold. Then say it's 10 o'clock, you put a little tea towel over it, damp one, so it doesn't get dry. You let it sit out all night long and you don't get up till say, say that's 9:00 or 10:00 when you do that and you're not getting up till, say, seven. In a lot of months of the year, that's going to be perfectly fine. If your kitchen is 80 degrees, it's definitely going to be a soupy mess by morning. So timing is kind of informed by what your kitchen temperature currently is. So in our, in our current house, the way our kitchen sits, it can get quite warm in the summertime, but in the wintertime it can also be quite cool. And so I will confidently start sourdough at any time of the day because if, say, I start it at 6pM I stretch and fold throughout the evening. It's 9 o'clock when I put the tea towel over it. Say I sleep in, like for some reason all the kids slept in. It's 8am before I even get up. That's fine because it can go a lot longer in the cooler months. Now, if it's a really, really hot time of year, I would probably try to start it in the morning so that I could have it all done and stashed in the fridge overnight. Now, one thing you could also do is you can kind of meet in the middle. So say you started at 4:00pm at 10:00 at night, throw it in the fridge and then in the morning get it back out again to ferment a little bit longer. You can always pause it in the refrigerator. I never really ever start sourdough thinking through the steps and when I'll be awake and what time this will happen and what time that will happen. I kind of just start it and then I see where we're at whenever I need to go to bed. So if it's a really hot summer day and for whatever reason, I decided to pull my starter out of the fridge. Because yes, you can use a mature starter right out of the fridge. The yeast will take a little longer to wake up, so maybe it'll have to proof a little bit longer, but you can just watch it. I pull my start I lost track what I was saying there because I was telling you that I would start something no matter what. But say I pull my starter out of the fridge, it's a hot summer day and it's 6pm I mix up some dough, stretch and fold it throughout the evening and let's just say it's 80 degrees in my kitchen, probably before bed at 10pm, I would take that bowl and put it in the refrigerator. I haven't shaped it. It still needs to proof a little bit longer, but I would just pause it and then pull it back out in the morning for maybe a couple hours, divide it, shape it, maybe stash one back in the fridge until tomorrow. The other one I'd probably leave out for an hour or two and then just bake it right that day so you can, you can just play around with it. Don't get too worried about the timing because you can always work with that timing. If you use a starter that's less active right out of the fridge, probably going to need to let it ferment a little bit longer. If you start it at say 2 in the afternoon, where it's kind of like, well, should I put it in the fridge? Should I not? When in doubt, just throw it in the fridge and then tomorrow pull it back out and let it keep doing its thing. But I really do try to encourage people, instead of really getting worried about the timing, to just start it when you think of it anytime and use the fridge or a cooler place in your home to your advantage. Okay, Flour Lots of questions about making sourdough bread slash products with freshly milled flour. So we did talk about this in a previous episode. I will leave that linked in the show notes below or the description box depending on if you're watching on YouTube or listening on a podcast app. But one thing I do want to say about working with freshly milled flour is to set your expectations so you will not end up with a fluffy light loaf with the design all skirted and beautiful with the big ear like you see on Instagram. With freshly milled flour, it will be a different product entirely. It will be delicious, it will be nutritious and filling and all of that good stuff, but it does take a bit of manipulation. And even still, when you do it perfectly, it just will not be the same as something made with all purpose flour that doesn't have bran and germ intact. So my little happy medium, I end up making almost all of my recipes with half freshly milled, half all purpose. That's a nice little compromise where it's like half as tall, half as fluffy, but then also half of that, you know, freshly milled healthy flour in there. That's typically what I do. But some, some tips to consider. You'll need to let it sit the flour and the water a bit longer together to really hydrate it, because it takes a little longer for it to get into all of the bran and the germ and to really hydrate it. So that initial part where you let the water and the dough and the flour all kind of come together and sit before performing stretch and folds, I let that happen a little bit longer. That will make it a little bit more workable. The dough will not stretch as high, it won't be as elastic, but pretty much it'll be the same process, just ultimately it'll be a more rustic result. Do you use unbleached all purpose or bread flour in your sourdough bread? So I use a bit of both. I would say most the time I'm just using unbleached and I skip the bread flour altogether just because we don't have it. So most the time I'm doing a half freshly milled, half unbleached in most of my recipes. Okay. I hesitate to make sourdough because my family and I use whole wheat flour and I've heard that using that flour without any other flour makes dense hard bread. I'd love to learn if using whole wheat exclusively is an option. Okay, so what I would say to you is I would use the recipe that you are currently using to make your family's whole wheat bread so that that particular bread might have honey in it, it might have oil or butter, and do that sourdough. So just take the yeast out, add in a half a cup of starter, let it rise longer, but do the same kneading that you do, the same rising, shaping rise again longer on those times as you're doing with your yeast bread. There's no reason why you can't just simply swap out the yeast that is sourdough for or the yeast that's currently in your bread with yeast that is in sourdough. That's how I made bread for so long. So when I started my starter back in 2010 or 2011, I can't remember exactly when it was. I only was just taking my tried and true whole wheat recipe, kind of probably what you're doing right now, and just making it sourdough. So I didn't do stretch and folds. I didn't do a boule in a cast iron Dutch oven. I just took the recipe that I was doing in stainless steel loaf pans with the honey, with some butter, with freshly mild flour, and doing it exactly like that, but with sourdough. So I think we think of sourdough as this something other, like something entirely different from regular bread, when really, yes, you can do things like that, but you can do that with yeast, too. Like, you can make a rustic boule with a design scored in the top with yeast. Sourdough is just yeast. So just take what you're doing, the process you're doing, and just use a different yeast. I hope that makes sense. But I do want people to understand that it doesn't have to be this entirely different thing, which it's so funny because I never thought of it as a different thing because of how I originally learned it. And I didn't realize, like, you had to measure it in grams. I just did it exactly how I made bread before with cups and all of that. And I just swapped out the yeast. And I Learned somewhere in 2020 that, oh, no, sourdough is different. We have to measure everything really precisely. We gotta get our scale out. We gotta get different tools. You need a banneton. I never had any of that stuff. I just made my regular recipe. I hope that you could do that with the recipe that you're currently using. How to incorporate Einkorn without sacrificing texture. So, again, there's just no way to change what things are. You will not get the same structure, the same texture with Einkorn as you do with all purpose, because the gluten structure is entirely different. It's a gluten that will rise quickly and nicely, but it will not stretch. And when you're tasting that crusty bread that almost, I don't know, like, when you pull it apart, it kind of sticks together and then it stretches even after it's baked. You will not get that with Einkorn. So you just have to take your priorities and be okay with having something that doesn't look beautiful or, you know, it'll still look very beautiful, and it's something you made, and when you cut it and, you know, put butter all over it. It's delicious. It's totally fine. But it's not going to have that bakery artisan sourdough classic, like crusty on the outside, real soft, and, you know, on the inside with einkorn or with whole grain. But that's the beauty of making things in your home for your own family that you can be proud of, that you can feel good about. It doesn't have to look like that. Okay, what to do if you added the correct amount of flour, but your dough is getting stickier while kneading. So I will say that for so long, I use my mixer for absolutely everything. And I found that eventually it'll come together the longer you need something really hydrated, like rolled dough, for example, or brioche dough. Well, recently I've decided I'm going to start just stretching and folding everything, because when you do the autolyse process, the autolyse, I need to learn how to say that, because every time I say it both ways, just in case you find that it becomes really stretchy and easy to work if you don't skip that process. So if you find that it just keeps getting stickier and stickier, try instead to. You can do it by hand or you can do it the mixer either way. But try to add the ingredients together, mix them up, let them sit for 30 minutes or so, then do the kneading. And you might find it comes together a lot faster or the stretch and fold. So the other day I made rolled dough and I decided to skip the mixer altogether because when I do the mixer, I have to let it, you know, really work for 30 minutes or so before it gets really stretchy. And it does. But I instead just mixed the dough up in a just a regular bowl, let it sit for 30 minutes, and then did like four stretch and folds throughout. Just what I thought of it. And it was just as good of a roll dough as ever. So I think really like doing that hydration process in the beginning is so important. Struggling with scoring bread well, it seems too soft or sticky to cut. So I'm assuming you're skipping the refrigerator rice, because if you put it in the refrigerator, that won't happen. If you are going straight from a shaping and then letting it rise at room temperature before baking, it will be hard to score. I oftentimes do it just because I want bread right away. Like, I might, you know, have started the bread that morning and won it by dinner time. So of course, skip the fridge rise. But it won't score as nicely if you Put it in the fridge. It will. I don't know for sure if that's what you're saying, but I assume because when the bread has time to stiffen up in the fridge, you can just almost cut anything into that bread. I recently heard you say that cold pancake batter doesn't get as fizzy when baking soda is added. But my pancakes still come out super flat. I've tried discard fully active and bubbly right out of the fridge. All the things. Hmm. Don't know. They're definitely more fluffy when you use active starter from the countertop from room temperature as opposed to discard from the fridge. I do both, but I find they're fluffy. Way fluffy if it's active. So I'm not sure what's happening there. Okay, what is the best knife to cut a good loaf of. No need, sourdough. We struggle to get a good cut to make a sandwich. Well, one thing I will say again, I'm sharing all on here, sharing all the behind the scenes. Those pretty bow knives. I hate those things. I do not understand. I do. I do have one and I've used it on occasion. But you probably notice I don't use it very much because I don't find that I have the control because the blade is offset from where my hand is controlling and I just don't like it. My best tip for cutting sourdough bread and I just use a regular bread knife. I. I do have it linked on a blog post. So there's a blog post. If you go on farmhousonmoon.com and search how to cut sourdough. I do have a link for the knife that I have, but it's essentially just a regular, very wide tooth, if that's what you'd call it, knife. So they're very far apart. But first I take my bread and I cut it right down the middle. Then I take both halves and I put them on the counter so they can sit flat. You cut it down the middle, set them flat, and then I can cut really nice slices. And I find that those are the right size too because if you try to cut all the way across, that's too big for a sandwich anyways. So that to me helps me to have more control to really create those nice sandwich slices as opposed to trying to cut like all the way through the whole thing. So, yeah, straight down the middle, then cutting the slices once they're flat. I think this is why a lot of people gravitate towards sandwich bread. And from my analytics on My blog People love sandwich bread. Guys, if you're scared to try a bowl and it's only because like your whole life you had sandwich bread and sandwich bread is just what you use for sandwiches, you do not know what you're missing. Once you get used to like the artisan style bowl, sandwich bread just doesn't cut it. Now I know some of you are probably like, nope, nope, I disagree. But that is our very strong hot take opinion here in our family. Sourdough sandwich bread is just, it's like I told, I told the last lady, make your same bread. But I'm telling you once you get and this is only if you're using all purpose, I think sandwich bread does a lot better. If you're trying to do all whole grain, I think sandwich bread is better for that. But if we're going strictly off taste alone, an all purpose no need bowl that only has flour, water, salt and starter, you cannot beat it for taste. I'm just telling you you can't. So gotta try it. But I think a lot of people lean towards the sandwich bread because they're not able to get those sandwich slices with the artisan boules. But I think you'll be happy if you try cutting it down the center for first. All right, well I think that I answered between this episode and the last one. Most of your frequently asked sourdough questions. Make sure to head over to the other episode catch up to see if there was something that I missed in this episode and as usual, submit your questions over at bit all lowercase ly/ capital S, capital F capital L that stands for simple simple farmhouse life and then lowercase questions. And I'll answer some other questions in my next episode that I do solo. We'll be off the sourdough topic and on to other things. Well, as always, thank you so much for listening and I will see you in the next episode of the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast.
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Black Friday is coming. And for the adults in your life who love the coolest toys, well, there's something for them this year too. Bartisian is the premier craft cocktail maker that automatically makes more than 60 seasonal and classic cocktails each in under 30 seconds at the push of a button. And right now Bartisian is having a huge site wide sale. You can get $100 off any cocktail maker or cocktail maker bundle when you spend $400 or more. So if the cocktail lover in your life has been good this year or the right kind of bad, get them Bartesian at the push of a button make bar quality, Cosmopolitan, smart martinis, Manhattans and more all in just 30 seconds. All for 100 off amazing toys aren't just for kids. Get 100 off a cocktail maker when you spend 400 through Cyber Monday, visit bartesian.com cocktail that's B A R T E S I A N dot com cocktail.