278. Don’t Overcomplicate Sourdough: Simple, Attainable Strategies for Delicious Bread Every Day | Anja of Our Gabled Home

Summary

Podcast Summary: Simple Farmhouse Life Episode: 278. Don’t Overcomplicate Sourdough: Simple, Attainable Strategies for Delicious Bread Every Day | Anja of Our Gabled Home
Release Date: February 25, 2025
Host: Lisa Bass
Guest: Anja from Our Gabled Home

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Introduction

In episode 278 of the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast, host Lisa Bass welcomes back Anja from Our Gabled Home to discuss making sourdough baking accessible and straightforward. Anja brings her unique, laid-back approach to sourdough, drawing from her German heritage and over a decade of baking experience. This episode delves into simplifying sourdough techniques, incorporating whole grains, and overcoming common baking challenges.

Simplifying Sourdough

Anja emphasizes the importance of hands-on experience in mastering sourdough. She believes that experimentation and embracing failures are crucial for developing an intuitive feel for the dough.

Anja [00:00]: "Unless you actually get out there and do it and experiment, you don't get that feel for it. And you have to have a certain amount of failures so that you understand what it's supposed to feel like."

Anja introduces her family’s traditional German method for creating a sourdough starter, which simplifies the process by eliminating precise measurements and discards.

Anja [02:57]: "It's really simple. So you don't measure anything, you don't weigh anything, you don't have to follow any timelines. Most of all, you don't discard anything and you don't have to feed anything. So it's really uncomplicated, it's super no fuzz."

Whole Grain Sourdough Recipes

The conversation shifts to Anja’s favorite whole grain sourdough recipes. She shares her love for using a variety of ancient grains, which add complexity and nutrition to her bread.

Anja [08:30]: "I love these days. Emmer spelt einkorn. Sometimes I add a little rye because rye gives it a little bit more complexity... And this is the beauty about this bread recipe. You can pretty much put anything in there that you want."

Anja's current project is a no-fuss whole grain sourdough loaf prepared in a loaf pan, making the process hassle-free and suitable for everyday baking.

Transitioning to Whole Grains

Lisa and Anja discuss the benefits and challenges of converting traditional white flour recipes to whole grains. Anja advises starting slow, gradually increasing the proportion of whole grains to adjust to new flavors and textures.

Anja [21:14]: "Start slow, you know, make small incremental changes... It just adds nutrition and flavor and color."

They highlight that whole grain breads will inherently be denser and more flavorful than their white flour counterparts, encouraging bakers to embrace these differences rather than striving for identical outcomes.

Anja [37:09]: "A whole grain baked product will never taste like a white flour product... The texture is not going to be the same."

Dealing with Baking Challenges

The discussion addresses common sourdough challenges, such as managing fermentation times in varying climates and handling failed loaves without losing confidence.

Anja [23:41]: "If the bread didn't come out the way I wanted... it's a learning opportunity."

Lisa shares her personal experiences with adjusting baking schedules based on seasonal temperature changes, ensuring successful loaves year-round.

Lisa [31:10]: "During winter, I can start bread in the morning and bake it that night without over-fermenting."

Storage of Grains

Proper storage is crucial to prevent pantry pests like moths. Anja explains her method of using flour sacks turned into fabric bags and keeping grains in insulated drawers.

Anja [47:07]: "I keep the bags in a bottom drawer because we don't have a heat source in the kitchen... So far, no bugs, nothing."

She recommends using food-grade buckets with tight lids for larger quantities to ensure grains remain pest-free.

Anja [48:38]: "If you have bigger quantities... use food-grade buckets with really tight lids."

Grain Mills

Anja and Lisa discuss their preferred grain mills, emphasizing the importance of grind quality in bread texture. Anja details her transition from a KitchenAid attachment to a standalone Mockmill for better performance.

Anja [51:07]: "The Mockmill KitchenAid attachment has ceramic grindstones that don't heat the flour... I absolutely love the Lino 200, the nice one with a wooden housing."

Lisa echoes the value of investing in a quality grain mill, highlighting long-term savings and superior bread quality.

Lisa [56:27]: "If you're sourcing quality bread... it's a good investment."

Community and Resources

Anja shares updates from her Our Gabled Home YouTube channel, where she explores new sourdough recipes and answers common baking questions. She encourages listeners to follow her work for more tips and traditional German recipes.

Anja [58:15]: "I'm experimenting more with other sourdough recipes... converting them to sourdough."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Lisa and Anja reinforcing the message that sourdough baking can be simple and rewarding without the need for perfection. They encourage listeners to find techniques that work for them, embrace experimentation, and enjoy the process of baking nutritious, homemade bread.

Lisa [63:27]: "Always great to have you on Anya."

Listeners are directed to Anja’s website and YouTube channel for additional resources and recipes, ensuring continued support in their sourdough journey.

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Key Takeaways:

• Simplify Sourdough: Remove the need for precise measurements and discards to make sourdough accessible.
• Embrace Whole Grains: Gradually incorporate whole grains to enhance flavor and nutrition without striving for white flour consistency.
• Manage Challenges: Adapt baking schedules to climate and view failures as learning opportunities.
• Proper Storage: Use fabric sacks or food-grade buckets to store grains and prevent pest infestations.
• Invest in Quality Mills: High-quality grain mills like Mockmill produce better flour, enhancing bread texture and taste.
• Community Support: Utilize online resources and communities for tips, recipes, and troubleshooting.

Notable Quotes:

• Anja [00:00]: "Unless you actually get out there and do it and experiment, you don't get that feel for it."
• Anja [21:14]: "Start slow, you know, make small incremental changes."
• Anja [37:09]: "A whole grain baked product will never taste like a white flour product."
• Anja [47:07]: "I keep the bags in a bottom drawer... So far, no bugs, nothing."
• Lisa [56:27]: "If you're sourcing quality bread... it's a good investment."

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For more details on Anja’s methods and recipes, visit Our Gabled Home YouTube Channel and Our Gabled Home Website.

Transcript

[Anya]

Unless you actually get out there and do it and experiment, you don't get that feel for it. And you have to have a certain amount of failures so that you understand what it's supposed to feel like. And if you're starting from zero, you've never baked sourdough before. You don't know what you're looking for. The more often you do it, the more comfortable you get with it. And you read your sourdough, you read the air and you know, you become more comfortable and you, you take some liberties.

[Lisa]

My name is Lisa, mother of eight and creator of the blog and YouTube channel Farmhouse on Boom. On this podcast I like to talk about simplifying your life so you can live out your prior. I help you learn how to cook from scratch and decorate on a budget through this podcast and my courses, Simple Sourdough and the Simple Sewing Series. I also help people reach their goals from home through my business courses, Create youe blog Dream and YouTube Success Academy. I will leave links to these resources in the show notes in description box below. Now let's get into the show. Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. Today we going to be chatting sourdough again with Anya from our gabled home. It's been a while since she's been on the show, but I love her unique, very laid back approach to sourdough. And then she also has quite a bit of experience with whole grains and many different varieties of whole grains, which a lot of you seem to be really interested in learning how to incorporate that, tips and tricks for that and what your expectations should be when switching to whole grains. So I think this conversation, whether you've started sourdough, you're well in the middle of it or you're an expert, I think will be interesting to you. Anya, welcome back on the podcast. I'm so excited to have you on. Last time you were on, I'm sure we talked about sourdough. I don't really remember, but I'm sure that's what it was. I think you and I both try to make sourdough a bit more approachable for people and toss out a lot of the rules and a lot of the uncertainty and like, oh yeah, things might say this, but you don't necessarily have to do that. So, yeah, welcome to the show. Tell us a bit about your website, your YouTube channel and what are you currently baking right now in your kitchen or not like necessarily right now, but around this time of year?

[Anya]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, great. Yeah, I'm super happy to be back I always, I mean, I can talk about sourdough all day long and what do I have? Baking? I actually do have my absolute like no fuzz whole grain sourdough loaf in the kitchen that's waiting to be transferred into a loaf pan. That makes it really easy. And so yeah, my website and my YouTube channel is a lot about sourdough recipes and my really unique method. It's my generations old family method from Germany. And then a lot of German recipes and German culture and lifestyle and so forth. And then I have some other content too, but those are the main two content types that I have going.

[Lisa]

Yes. So remind us just briefly what your method is that's a little bit different from how people are used to seeing it other places on the Internet.

[Anya]

Okay. So first of all, I mean, all I do is I want to make it really easy for people and I want to lower the bar to entry. Because sourdough can be, if you want to produce bakery type results or Instagram perfect results, you have to be pretty accurate and you know, follow certain measurements and timelines and whatnot. But I think there's a way to get started with sourdough that you don't have to do all of that. And so first of all, making a sourdough starter, I mean I, I think we talked about this before, but until about maybe six years ago or so, I didn't know that there was another method from the method that we're using that my family's been using for generations and that I grew up on. And that is we mix essentially buttermilk and flour and then we start maybe every day, if we forget every other day. And then in the summer, after five days, in the winter, maybe after 10 days or so, you have a sourdough starter. It's really simple. So you don't measure anything, you don't weigh anything, you don't have to follow any timelines. Most of all, you don't discard anything and you don't have to feed anything. So it's really uncomplicated, it's super no fuzz. And from there you can bake bread. My mom's always a little bit like skeptical, like, wait, what? You can make cake with sourdough starter? I thought that's only for bread. That's typical skeptical German. And then what we have done in the past is so you bake your bread and we actually dump the entire sourdough starter that we have in the loaf in the dough and then we let it rise and then, you know, let's Say we start in the morning, and then midday, we're ready to transfer the dough into the loaf pan. And this is, like, the super easiest recipe. No shaping, no, you know, making sure it. It doesn't flatten out like a pancake. We take a little bit of the dough out and put that in the jar, add a ton of flour to it. And I have a video in which I'm showing it, and people are joking, like, oh, my gosh, he's going to break the fork because it's so stiff. And then some more flour on top. And then that jar gets a lid on, goes in the refrigerator, and you can leave it there for months, and you don't have to touch it. So essentially, what this method does is it separates out the flour feeding and the water feeding, because then people are like, okay, so how do you bake bread then? Or how do you use it then? So the only real difference here is that the night before you want to bake, we take it out of the refrigerator and we add water to it to recreate that consistency that we're going for. And then the next morning, we have an active sourdough starter.

[Lisa]

Okay.

[Anya]

And then the cycle repeats from there. Yeah. Super simple.

[Lisa]

Yeah. I think I do it really, really similar. I don't do mine as, like, less hydrated as you. Cause I don't measure either. I just pour it all in. But, you know, like, it can stay in the fridge in that state for as long as I need it to. And I. I'm with you. I never discard. And so it's always so interesting to me. And, you know, of course, as. As bloggers, you know, you create website. You have website content as well. You have the things that people are googling. And so you're trying to, like, okay, yes, here is a discard pancake recipe, or here's a discard scone recipe. But that's really only when you're first starting a sour disorder, which is something I did well over a decade ago. And so discard isn't a part of my life. I think it's something that we just kind of. We call it discard, but at the same. But, like, it's never discarded, you know, unless you're literally starting it. And there's no yeast content in there. And so I do think it's interesting. I try to debunk the myth all the time that there's any waste with sourdough, because there absolutely is never waste. And I usually, like you, I'll reduce my starter down to next to Nothing before feeding it because I'll just keep using it until it's almost gone, then I'll feed it again, then use it till it's almost gone. Whether I'm putting that in, like today I was making bagels, bread, some muffins. But I think the thing in our kitchens is we all get really familiar and comfortable with something and then it becomes easy. So we'll say like, well, this is so easy. It is easy. It's so super easy because we've done it a million times. And so there's, you're like, it's seriously so complicated or not complicated. I'm trying to, like, always, like, bring people along and like, trust me, it's not hard at all. Like, you're over complicating it. And I think that you get a method that really works for you. And, you know, whether or not other people are doing it exactly like that I think is irrelevant because you can turn out really great results. And you have your, your go to recipes that you use all the time. So tell us like the bread recipe that you're talking about right now, that's a whole grain recipe. What is that? Like, like, what is that? It's on your website, I assume.

[Anya]

It's on my website. It's, it's really, I mean, like, and to what you were saying just before, before I talk about the recipe in a second, I think there's a few things. First of all, I mean, I grew up with sourdough, so for me, I never had to officially learn it. Like, sit down. Like, okay, now I'm going to learn about sourdough. So I, yeah, I organically grew up. I was peeking over my mom's shoulder. She would eventually involve me in the process and ask me to do maybe transferring the dough from the bowl to the loaf pan or something. I naturally got a feel for what the dough should feel like. Yes.

[Lisa]

Which is so important.

[Anya]

Right. And then the next thing again is that, that unless you actually get out there and do it and experiment, you don't get that feel for it. And you have to have a certain, I mean, you have to have a certain amount of failures so that you understand, you know, what it's supposed to feel like. And if you're starting from zero, you've never baked with sourdough before. You don't know what, what you're looking for. Right. And there's only so many ways you can teach somebody. I mean, in words, it's harder. In a video, it's a little easier because you can show people the consistency. The more often you do it, the more comfortable you get with it. And you read your sourdough, you read the air, and, you know, you become more comfortable and you. You take some liberties. And that means that maybe 1 out of 50 breads is not really a winner. And I'm like, okay.

[Lisa]

But, yeah, it's near.

[Anya]

Once I got overconfident and maybe I just, you know, pushed the envelope a little bit too far.

[Lisa]

Yeah, that happens sometimes.

[Anya]

Yeah. And I also feel like the sourdough starter, I don't know if that sounds weird, but it kind of adapts to you if you let it. And it works with you and works with your methods, your timings, your schedule, your treatments, whatever. And so anyhow, so my bread recipe, I. I have a drawer where I keep all my grains. And that's the beauty is when you're baking with whole grains, you can just keep the grains in there forever in a dry, cool spot. They'll last for thousands of years. I mean, they have actually survived in the desert for thousands of years. So if you're keeping them in the right spot, they'll last forever. And then, you know, I have my grain mill in the morning. I take out a little bowl and I scoop, you know, kind of eyeball it a little bit, scoop the grains in there. And I absolutely love these days. Emmer spelt einkorn. Sometimes I add a little rye because rye gives it a little bit more complexity. Then I've played with putting some buckwheat in it and just whatever I feel like. Oftentimes I put flaxseed in because it's so healthy and it's full of fiber and good omega 3 fatty acids. And. And this is the beauty about this bread recipe. You can pretty much put anything in there that you want. And then I mill the grains, I mill it into a. Not super fine flour, actually, for this bread, because like I said, I'm not shaping it and I'm not doing anything with it. I mix up the dough. I, you know, I add some. I add my sourdough starter, some salt, enough water, and it's like. And. And then here's the little thing that's like, okay, so with fresh milled whole grain flour, it absorbs water like crazy. And so I tend to not put a lot of water in there in the beginning because I've had doughs that were a little too runny. And then the bread gets really wet. So I tend to not put too much water in it at first. And then, you know, Actually, an hour ago I went. And they're like, wow, this is really stiff. So I just. A little bit more water, A little bit more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then after we're done with this interview, this podcast, I'm going to go in there and just take the dough. Now, I actually, I did not stay exactly true to my family's method. I just kept some sourdough starter in the jar that I had and put that back with the flour in the refrigerator. Actually, I might have just put it in there like that because I might be using it now. I will be using it tomorrow, so there's no need for me to do anything with it right now. And then I'm going to put the rest of the, I mean, the dough from the bowl in my loaf pan. Either I use parchment paper or I grease it and flour it a little bit. And then I set the loaf pan out and let it rise. And here's where I give people a ballpark. Usually it's like at least four hours, but sometimes on a cool day, it doesn't rise quite as much. So I look at it and when it starts getting a little bit dome shaped on top, I'm like, okay, time to bake it. And that could be 4 o'clock on a really warm day, or it could be seven, eight o'clock on a cool winter day. And I'm just really flexible if I know I'm around. And on my bread baking day, all I need to do is be sure that I have time to do this in the morning, first thing, and then something happens midday, and then whenever in the evening, I bake. So, yeah, there's some planning around it. I mean, you can't walk away and then decide, oh, we're going to go to a restaurant and you know, I'll be home at like 10 o'clock because then I won't be able to bake it. Okay, that's super simple. And then it is a dense loaf because it's fully whole grain and it is pretty dark, but it's like that typical European dense bread.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

But I love it.

[Lisa]

I'm so are you measuring the flour by gram since you're doing, you know, you're throwing in like all different kinds of grains. You have ancient grains that don't have the same gluten structure as modern grains. You're having rye in there. How are you measuring are, is there salt, oil or just the water? Salt starter, that kind of thing?

[Anya]

Yep, yep. Just, I mean, for this bread. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I eyeball, I Eyeball the salt.

[Lisa]

Okay.

[Anya]

So. And for me, it's really about everyday bread. I'm not trying to win a contest, I'm not trying to press anyone.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

I'm not trying to. Like I said, I mean, it sounds a little bit Judge Randall, but I'm not trying to be Instagram perfect so I can afford.

[Lisa]

You need to use all purpose flour. If you're going to try to do that, if you're going to try to like show this beautiful bread that everybody's going to be impressed with and you're gonna get like millions of real views or whatever. It's gonna. This is just not that bread. And I'm with you. That's the bread I make in my kitchen most of the time too.

[Anya]

Yeah, yeah. And for me to just throw things together and you know, I have a measuring cup. So I know for my. It also depends on the size of loaf pan you have. And for the loaf pan that I have, I know about how much grains or flour I need in there. So basically I scoop out the grains and I have, I use a measuring cup and depending on how many different types of grains I use, I in there. And I have this idea in my head how much I need. And so some breads are a little shorter or, you know, shallower, and other breads are a little bit. But then again, you know, some birds rise more than than others, but they're all fantastic. I mean, you know, you pull out of the oven and fresh baked bread is just a little bit of butter and salt. It's like, oh, my gosh. You know, I don't need anything else in life.

[Lisa]

Yep.

[Anya]

If I bake around bread, I am much more accurate with my measurements because I feel like the margin of error is a lot smaller than it's not.

[Lisa]

Contained by the loaf pan. You know, with a loaf pan, you have that parameter and it's kind of like you'll bake something like whether or not it's gonna be perfect, something will have a nice little shape to it and it'll come out.

[Anya]

Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. So when I bake a round loaf, which I typically bake for my family because they like that a little bit better than this dense bread that I love so much. And pretty much I'm the only one eating it. So if I bake a round bread, I do have measurements that I kind of stick to and I don't eyeball it quite as much, I might be a little bit more lenient as to timings and stretching and folds. And, you know, I look down. But the ingredients I measure out pretty much for that.

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[Lisa]

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[Anya]

So since I do make it for my family, they love like a 50%. 5050 white 50%.

[Lisa]

That's exactly the the ratio. I feel like if I'm making anything besides a round boule, I can get away with all whole grain. I mean literally anything. Pizza dough, scones, muffins. Like those are fresh in my mind because I was just making those like even bagels, loaves of bread, all of that. But the round one. Yes you can. It'll look pretty.

[Anya]

You can.

[Lisa]

It's just not that great. It just to have like the cast iron Dutch oven, like the it gets like toasty and it doesn't have that same crustiness with the chewy interior. But at 50 50, I agree with you. It's almost indistinguishable from. Not indistinguishable. You get the same exact result as you do with 100% all purpose, but you still have some of the whole grain. But any lower percent. Yeah, I'm with you. It's the one place I'm like you just people will be like, yes, you can, you can, you can. It'll look pretty.

[Anya]

Of course you can. You can do anything you want.

[Lisa]

It's just not that good.

[Anya]

No. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So yeah, if it's more like for a sandwich, you know, like a lighter sandwich style bread, then then that's what I use. And I have a few different recipes but you know, I do take some liberties. But I start with the right measurements and I have a ratio and yeah, yeah.

[Lisa]

So for something like that, do you ever throw in an ancient grain? Are you doing like 50 all purpose with like a 50% modern hard wheat or what are you doing with that lately?

[Anya]

So I do have a bread flour that we get at Costco because that's just a really. I Don't think it's bread flour. I think it's all purpose. But that's my, my white flour. And lately I've been playing with white spelt flour just because spelt is a little easier to digest and it has, it's, it's closest to regular wheat all purpose flour in terms of how it behaves and the gluten structure and so forth. So I use that and whatever the mood of the day is, if Emmer looks really good to me on that day, hey, I'll throw in some Emmer. If I want something a little bit more rustic tasting and like a denser, not denser taste, but like a more complex, I use some rye. Sometimes I mix a little rye with some spelt or, you know, einkorn. I know that Einkorn is a little tricky, but if I just mix it in a little bit, it just adds nutrition and flavor and color. But it doesn't dominate and it's not quite as finicky.

[Lisa]

Yeah, I feel like that 50% all purpose can really carry whatever you throw in the other 50% pretty well. That's what I've found too.

[Anya]

Yeah. Yeah. And I tell people, because I get a lot of questions like, you know, how do I get started and how do I transition? And I tell people, just start really slow, you know, make, make small incremental changes. And I mean, I don't do this, but I tell people, take some notes. You know, take some notes. I like what your recipe was and how you like to result. And then, you know, start with maybe 10% whole grain and then 20% whole grain. And then move your way up and see how you like it. Because some people just don't really like that or they're not used to it. And ultimately, I think as long as you love it and you enjoy the bread and your family enjoys it, I don't think, I think you can do whatever you want. Yeah. So I, I always tell people, just experiment, you know, the worst that can happen is you end up with a bunch of croutons.

[Lisa]

I always say that because really get worked up about waste. And I'm like, listen, I do not waste. We do breadcrumbs, we do croutons, we do French toast casserole. There's no reason you should be throwing anything away. Even if it's this big, if it's this much.

[Anya]

Yeah, yeah. There's something you can do with it.

[Lisa]

Yes, yes. And you say you don't take notes, but you're probably like me. You're not. You don't physically take notes, but the number of loaves that you've made. There's notes. Like, there's a lot that you've gathered that you are applying to future, you know, and as long as you're not scared of wasting, really, what else is there to lose? People, I think, worry about wasting their time, but in this case, this is like an education you're providing for yourself. So time is not something you're wasting, even if it's a failure.

[Anya]

Yeah. I mean, there's always, I think, that failures or learning opportunities. And if you reframe it that way, instead of like, oh, the bread didn't come out the way I wanted, then you can ask yourself, so why was that happening and what do I need to change? And I think the. The worst thing that can happen is when people have one loaf that didn't come out the way they want it, and then they get discouraged and don't try again. No, no, no. This is. This is the moment where you need to push through and you need to do it again because you're already there. But without failures, you won't have success. And you need to experiment. And don't ever let one or two loaves that didn't come because eventually you'll get it. But you have to. You have to get over that hump and trust yourself. Yeah, yeah.

[Lisa]

It might be a weird time to be learning. Like, it's not. It's a great time to learn sourdough, but it's a very different time in history than when I learned sourdough. When you learned sourdough. Because everybody's making sourdough, and it's all very beautiful, and it's all very much on social media. When I first made it, I had like this little. Probably Vince, like, just loaf pan, and I was so proud of it, and there was nobody to tell me otherwise. They're like, you made bread like that? When I started making bread, it was really weird to make bread. Whereas now, I mean, everybody has a bakery in their own kitchen. It's very, very normal. And I think that can also be intimidating for people because it's like, well, there's, you know, there's a lot of comparison that happens. And.

[Anya]

Yeah, yeah. And that's why I try to tell people, just, you know, don't worry about it, as long as you enjoy the taste. Because they're like, how is the crumb and how is this? And they're like, hey, yes, if it tastes good, who cares?

[Lisa]

The Internet. I know what that means.

[Anya]

Honestly, I actually I am not the biggest fan of the loaves with these big holes because they're just not practical. They're great for dipping in soups. But I spread stuff on it and it disappears in the holes. Whatever you spread on it, I don't actually find it very practical. And it's funny because when you go to Europe, okay, so France, maybe some baguettes will have the big holds. But let's say you go to Germany, you don't find bread like that at all in the bakeries. And Germany has what, 86 different types of bread. I don't know who counted, but, you.

[Lisa]

Know, so 86, that's very precise.

[Anya]

That's very German. Right? It's not 85, it's 86. And I don't know because there are so many different variations and. But you go to a store and you'll be overwhelmed by all the choices you have. But all of the breads have a fairly tight crumble. None of the breads have big holes in them because people use them for open sandwiches or, you know, like regular sandwiches, and they spread stuff on it and it's just not practical to have big holes in it. And. And so, yeah, so again, I feel like just, you know, do whatever works for you and get comfortable and get away from the comparison. And then if at some point you feel like you want to upgrade and you want to manipulate the texture and the, you know, the cold proofing and you want to start affecting maybe the sourness of the bread, like, I like it really sour or I don't like it so sour, then you can still do that, but just get a functional bread that you enjoy, like an everyday.

[Lisa]

Type of bread, and then you can.

[Anya]

You can always upgrade from there.

[Lisa]

Yeah, and everybody has different preferences. There are people who, you know, they have no use for the round loaves. For me, that's my favorite. I wish that I could make them with all whole grain and they still would be really delicious because I prefer those. But I don't make them that much because I can't make them with a hundred percent whole grain. Those are my favorite, though. But everybody will have the loaf that works best, whether that's just a simple whole grain sandwich loaf. And I always tell people, find one, master it. And then until you feel 100% comfortable with that, to where you're like, you know, like you. Where every. I don't know how often you bake, but once a week or whatever, you go in there, you make it. It's just like very straightforward. There's no Questioning yourself. You could do it in your sleep. Yeah, it's, you know, there's no reading.

[Anya]

A recipe and you have to. Unless you grow up with it, you have to. There's no shortcut to the experience you have to gain in your own kitchen and by having to, you know, just try it out and bake it until you're really comfortable with it. But once you are, like you said, you can totally do it in your sleep. You don't have to think about it. It's totally in your rhythm. You can. Yeah, you can. It's not even something you need to consciously do.

[Lisa]

Yes, simplicity. Just find something, master it, and then if you never move on from that ever, that's totally fine. We're looking for sustenance in our home, food for our family that we feel good about. And that can actually be fairly simple to achieve. I think people get really overwhelmed with sourdough, but I think that's just because of how many different methods there are and how many different options and recipes and people talking about crumb. And you insert all these different things that we hear about that are on.

[Anya]

Like very precise baking channels.

[Lisa]

Which is kind of interesting, but also kind of not me at all. I just am like, yeah, that's interesting, but I don't even know what that means. And I'm still baking every day, you know.

[Anya]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, go on Facebook and there are these sourdough groups and some of them, I mean, I'm in there.

[Lisa]

Me too. People ask questions and I'm like, I don't even know the answer to that.

[Anya]

And then they show off their breads. I'm like, wow, that's pretty cool.

[Lisa]

I mean, I'm usually like, that looks kind of like my bread. I don't know. Like, I'm sure it's somehow special and better, but it doesn't look, you know, seem like a little over complicated, but.

[Anya]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

[Lisa]

Yes. Okay. So I was also wondering, with your recipe, you talk about starting it in the morning and you're baking it at night. So a lot of times people associate sourdough with, with multi day processes. I'm kind of to the point where usually mine's like a start one day, bake the next. But how have you gotten to the point where you're doing this all in one day?

[Anya]

That's how we've always done it. That was always our rhythm. And yeah, and I have played with. Well, then I need to like totally upset my whole routine and it sort of goes against my grain and it.

[Lisa]

Doesn'T yeah, here we go again. Like, you have your thing. You do. You're like, this is what I do. Okay.

[Anya]

Yeah. I was just trying to think, like, okay, so if I were to move my schedule. Yeah. I mean, I could probably take my sourdough starter out in the morning and let it become active throughout the day, mill my grains, mix the dough, let it rise overnight, and then the next morning. But now I have to think about it. Right. And it doesn't. It doesn't produce better results. So it's not worth it for me. And I have, actually, because I was on a time pressure and my schedule didn't work out. I have tried to put the dough in the loaf pan and then let it rise overnight, but then I can't see what's happening. And I come in the kitchen in the morning, either it's completely flown over because it was rising really well, or it was too cold or something, so I can't really control it. So what I really like to do is just do it during the day, and typically it works out really well. The only time, maybe in the summer. You know, nobody likes to be in a hot kitchen on a hot summer day to preheat their oven. So sometimes I do adjust my baking schedule a little bit to the weather forecast.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

Because where we are, we don't have consistently hot days. We're not like Texas or Arizona, where, you know, like, all summer long, it's going to be hot for us. We typically, where we are, we get maybe three or four hot days, and then it's cools off again. So I. I try to avoid baking on really hot days. Yeah. That's kind of nice. Yeah. That's Northern California. Yeah.

[Lisa]

Yeah. It is so interesting with. With the climate, because I live in a climate that is very cold in the winter, very hot in the summer. So my baking is very distinct between those two times, like, right now and my kitchen in this house, too, unless we keep, like, a heater running in the kitchen, which we do if it's going to be really cold, because that way pipes, you know, anyways.

[Anya]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

Yeah. It's distinctly warmer in my last kitchen, too. Distinctly warmer in the kitchen and distinctly cooler. Or in the summer, in the winter. And like, right now, I can start bread in the morning, it can rise literally, to the next morning, then I can shape it, and unless I put it in a really warm spot, which I do sometimes, just to rush that second rise along, I could let it rise again for an entire day and bake it that night, all without it over fermenting in the summer. I'm a same day processed girl. And there's no. Like, if you go beyond that, it's gonna just, you know, unless you do a fridge rise, which I've done that too, to pause the process. But yeah, very distinct summer and winter. Which is why I tell people like you, you just have to know the process, not really the times.

[Anya]

Yeah. And I think we have become a little bit spoiled in expecting always the same result. And sourdough is alive and it reacts to the temperature, the humidity, I want to say, maybe even my mood, you know, because sometimes my bread is a little. A tiny bit. I mean, it's always good, but maybe not the greatest. Maybe not like 100%. Maybe it's just like 95%, but that's sourdough. And I think with the invention of commercial yeast, we've become so spoiled because that's what bakers really loved. Because all of a sudden with commercial yeast, they had a really reliable process. With sourdough, they had to watch the dough, like you said, right in the window would take longer. And so there was a lot more variables. And then all of a sudden with yeast, they're like, oh, my gosh, two hours later, I have a bread nicely risen and everything. Yep.

[Lisa]

You can really rely on the timing.

[Anya]

Totally makes it really easy for commercial bakers. But I think it also takes something away from the whole process. And so I personally enjoy the process of, you know, being in tune with your dough and your bread and having to adjust a little bit and.

[Lisa]

Well, and it sounds very complicated. If you've never done it, this sounds like, well, how would you ever know? But what's also interesting, because, you know, you mentioned, like, watching it, and really, I know what you mean by watching it, like peeking at it, but it's not at all like an active thing. Like, I could leave for the entire evening and still know, especially in this climate right now, my dough will be fine. I don't have to do anything now. If it was summer before, I would leave tonight. Like, oh, I have plants tonight suddenly that I didn't know I had. I'll pop that all in the fridge. It'll be fine. In the summer, like, there's. It really becomes so easy once you're really familiar with it all. And to the point where yeast spread sounds intimidating to me. People sometimes like, well, why can't I just do yeast? I'm like, I guess you could, but I don't see how that's any easier. To me, that sounds hard Because I'd have to relearn it. And I already know exactly what I'm doing with. With sourdough with wild yeast.

[Anya]

Yeah. I mean, yeast is easy, but I would miss the flavor of the sourdough. And they also spoil faster because of the ph and the sourness of the sourdough. That makes it a little bit more unhospitable for. For the mold bacteria and.

[Lisa]

Right.

[Anya]

I think they're just flat tasting. I. Yeah, I.

[Lisa]

Yes. There's just not the. Yeah, there's, like, no flavor. I agree with you. Once you're used to sourdough, there's just no flavor. And another, I was thinking earlier when you were talking about waking your yeast up, that's another rule I break in my kitchen, because I did it before I knew sourdough rules. I just assumed I had a little jar of yeast, and I didn't. You know, I figured, who cares if it's a little, like, a little slow, a little sleepy, or if it's alive and awake? And so, like, today I did a big baking day, and I just. My yeast had been. Or my sourdough had been in the fridge for the weekend, two. Two days or so, and I just use it cold, and it wakes up throughout the fermentation process. And that's another thing. I think people really get worked up about the timing of sourdough. Like, well, but if I have this this night, then I need to, like, feed my starter at this time. I'm like, just when you think of baking, just get your starter out, no matter where it is, whether it's on the counter, whether it's in the fridge, pour that stuff together, and then based on the temperature, you can either put it in the fridge tonight, if it's summer, you can let it keep going. I think we do get a little worked up about the whole timing thing, Right?

[Anya]

Yeah. And then these really professional sourdough bakers, they put out graphs where you can see between the time and the temperature and at what point the starter is at its peak and when it's losing activity again. And it's almost like, wow, I've never really thought about it that way.

[Lisa]

Yeah, you don't actually have to run that study in order to bake sourdough, but there are always going to be people who take it to the next level, Right?

[Anya]

Yeah. And I feel like, you know, just get started, and if you get to the point where you do want to take it to the county fair and want to win some contests or want to sell it, you know, have A little micro, micro bakery, then great, then you can always upgrade. And then yes, if you're selling it, for example, then yeah, you need to produce more reliable loaves. And in terms of the size and the crumb and the crust and you know, so people have, have certain expectations around it. But if you're not doing that, then I think, yeah, I mean, you just take a really laid back approach.

[Lisa]

Yeah. One thing that people seem to be really interested in more recently because there's been a lot of information about whole grains and the benefits of them is converting recipes to whole grains.

[Anya]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

Do you have a method for that or how are you. If you're taking like a recipe that maybe you found online or something and you want to make it in your own kitchen, but whole grain, do you have a formula or at this point you're so good at baking bread you just kind of throw it together or how, how are you doing that?

[Anya]

Well, I think there's certain things you have to think about and the first one is expectation. A whole grain baked product will never taste like a white flour product.

[Lisa]

Yes, that's what I'm always saying. Because I swear people say that they will, they won't. Like this is the key. I'm like, there's no key. Yeah, there's no key.

[Anya]

They won't. The brand adds its own flavor to it and the germ and it's just not the same and then the texture is not going to be the same. And I mean also for many breads and you know, Germans love these little breakfast rolls. When you buy them from the bakery, even if they're called sourdough and organic or whatever, oftentimes they are allowed to put additional ingredients in there that increase the volume and make them fluffier that, you know, we home bakers just don't have access to.

[Lisa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Anya]

So that's where you need to really adjust your expectations. It won't taste the same and it just will be denser, period. There's no way around it.

[Lisa]

Right.

[Anya]

However, it's a much more nutritious product and if you are ready to expand your taste horizon, if you will, then it actually, it adds a lot more complexity to it and interest. And then the different types of grains, I mean, wheat for me is the most boring because it's been bred to actually perform a certain way. But if you use ancient grains like spelt or einkorn, you get more nutty or you get a more, I don't know, buttery taste. And I mean, it's so fun to play with, with all of those. So you're. Instead of trying to replace something one to one. I think the way I'd like to look at it is I'm just expanding my repertoire and I'm adding some interest to it. And it's kind of like, you know, if you like wine and people say there's no bad wine or good wine, it's just whatever you like. And if you buy like commercial, like a Gallo Cabernet Sauvignon, they figured out this is kind of like, you know, the. What most people like and they will manipulate the wine to the point that it actually tastes like that. Now if yours consistently, consistently every year from vintage to winter, and you know, maybe they add some more sugar to it because they will. Or, you know, they add some other grapes to it or whatever. Right. They. They manipulate the wine until they have that kind of taste. But if you're buying like from a smaller vintage, like, oh yeah, between one year and the other and between, you know, one certain vineyard and the other vineyard and you get all these variances. And so if you're a wine lover, you appreciate those differences in taste and, you know, and everything. So. Yeah. So if you want to convert to whole grain baking, I would say the same thing. Start slow, replacing the white flour with some whole grain flour and just see how you like it. And then maybe next time add a little bit more. Just knowing that it will not be exactly the same, it will be different.

[Lisa]

Yeah, I think that's a very important point to make. And it's also. We're not saying it's not as good, we're just saying it's not the same.

[Anya]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lisa]

Which is. Yeah, like the other night, couple nights ago, I, I actually again, it's winter.

[Anya]

We.

[Lisa]

I got some bread dough going Friday, Saturday, we decided we were going to go out for the day because it's just freezing. And we live in town now and we have eight kids and we were like, we can't stay in this house. So we went, we did a hike, we went and explored a cave. Anyways, I didn't, I forgot because I had started it pretty early on Friday, so it already had done its bulk rise. Well, I didn't divide it, shape it at all. So I got home Saturday night at like 5, turned the oven on, shaped it, put it in its loaf pan and then put it on top of the oven so it would rise really fast for that second rise. By 9pm it was baking. And I went down there and I sliced like the piping hot slice and slathered it with butter and honey and I'm like this is the best and it's been fermenting so long it's sour, but it's also sweet and it's crumbly and it's just so good. It's not the same, but it's different and better in a lot of ways.

[Anya]

Yeah, yeah.

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[Lisa]

I agree with you. So what, what grains do you stock in your kitchen? You've mentioned several do you have buckets? You talked about a drawer or how are you doing this. Where are you getting them from? And what are your favorite ones to stock?

[Anya]

So I'm fortunate enough to live 30 minutes away from a central milling store. And central milling has what, maybe five physical locations and they cater to. Yeah, they cater mostly to professional bakers and restaurants, but they're open to the public. And I can just go in there and I'm like, I mean, I don't need a candy store. Send me into that store. I can spend hours.

[Lisa]

I think most of the listeners feel that way too, to be honest. Like we're all like, yeah, forget the candy store. I wish we had this.

[Anya]

I don't need, I don't need clothes. I can just go there and, you know, and like, oh, this grain and that grain. And so they have a pretty good selection. They don't have everything, but they have a pretty good selection to begin with. So they have a bunch of flowers which I typically don't get, except for the white spelled flower, because I can easily. That one. I feel like I can easily one to one convert from white all purpose wheat flour to the white spelt flour because it behaves pretty much the same. But then I always like to have rye and they have convenient five pound bags, which is perfect for me because we don't have a large family, we don't go through a lot of bread. And then it also has become a little bit of, you know, a space issue. Where do I put all that? Yeah, yeah. And I have, especially if you're going.

[Lisa]

To keep a bunch of them, you know, if you're going to stock several grains to like you said, like a cup of this. Cup of this, you know, you don't want to keep as many of each.

[Anya]

No. And, and so I, So I have rye, I have whole spelt, I have Emmer, which I don't get from Central Moulin because I don't think they carry it. And Einkorn, which they do carry. And then I have the buckwheat and the flaxseed and. Yeah, and that's pretty much it. And then. Oh, and then I have one that I find really fascinating. There's a local company that's been resurrecting an ancient grain, but it's actually a wheat variety, I think. And they found it in the Masada fortress in the sixties. They found little tiny kernels that had survived for. Oh, don't quote me, I want to say whenever the siege was, when the Romans were. So we're talking maybe 3,000 years. Wow. And some researchers went there and they actually took the grains and they grew them and multiplied them. And this is a real variety now you can buy it. And it's the same grain that they used, you know, 3,000 years ago. That's cool. And it, it's super cool. It's, it's super fascinating, the whole history behind it and the story and how it survived in the dry desert climate. And it is a little bit like Einkorn. It, it, it's not quite as finicky, but it's a, a tiny grain instead of the big kernels that the bakers love, the wheat grain. And it has a very distinct taste and it doesn't have the gluten structure that we, you know, more like expect. Yeah, more like Einkorn in that.

[Lisa]

Okay.

[Anya]

But beautiful taste. Absolutely delicious. And. Yeah. And I just, I just find the history of it so cool. I mean, if somebody just gave me the bread and I'm like, yeah, that tastes great. But knowing the history behind it, oh my gosh, that's amazing. Yeah. It's a mental thing, but it works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lisa]

So are you keeping it in like food grade buckets or how are you storing it? Because we had some questions about getting bugs in their grains and, or if you've ever experienced anything like that.

[Anya]

Okay, so don't do as I say. No, don't do as I do.

[Lisa]

Do as you say, as you do.

[Anya]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So here's what I do. But. And then I'm going to say what I'm going to recommend or what I typically recommend. So I made myself from flour. So actually flour sacks, they, they open them up and make towels out of it. And then I buy the towels and make a sack out of it again.

[Lisa]

Okay.

[Anya]

I sew it back together. Put them back. Yeah. And since I don't keep huge quantities, but I do have a little moth trap in there because I do get a little bit worried about pantry moths. And they, it's so easy to get them and it's so hard to get rid of them once you have them.

[Lisa]

I've gotten them in my kitchen before. They go in pretty much everything at that point.

[Anya]

At that point you just basically have to throw everything out.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

Because once they're in there, it's really, it's also really hard to get rid of them. So having said. Oh. So. Okay. So I keep the bags in a bottom drawer because we don't have a heat source in the kitchen. The drawers are kind of insulated and it doesn't get very hot in there. You know, cold is okay. But it also doesn't get damp in there. And I do check that drawer every so often. And so far, I mean, I've had that drawer for five years or so and so far no bugs, no nothing. What I do recommend though is if you have bigger quantities that you don't go through very quickly, I do recommend those food grade buckets with a really tight lids to make sure that you don't get any insects in there.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

The only challenge is they may not come from your house. They may have been in the grain that you get and.

[Lisa]

Oh yeah. What can you do then?

[Anya]

Nothing really. You just have to trust your sword.

[Lisa]

But at least if they're down in those buckets, they won't probably make it to the other buckets. You know, there's no thing should be safe.

[Anya]

Yeah. There's no cross contamination because if it's, if it's a seal, then they can't get out. I mean, these little pantry moths, you'll be surprised what they actually, what, what spaces they can go through.

[Lisa]

I've been very surprised at what they can do. Yeah, yeah. But they've never made it inside my food grade buckets. They've gone. And it's like, how'd you get in that plastic bag? How'd you make it in that glass? Like if you have. I have glass jars with glass lids. So obviously they're not airtight and that it works, but then sometimes it doesn't. And they, they make it right in. Yeah, they can get in.

[Anya]

They do, yeah. I have these bigger glass containers from Ikea with a snap top and a rubber band.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

And one of them has the ever so slightest nick in the glass and they get through there.

[Lisa]

Okay. Yeah, it seems like they do. Like that seemed sealed. How did that happen? But yeah, I haven't seen them make it into my food grade buckets. And I always tell people to get the gamma lids. You can get them on Amazon or Azure Standard because to have to like rip off the entire thing every time, you probably will just stop making whole grain bread and you'll probably just go reach for the all purpose. But gamma lids, they just unscrew. And so it's, it's very simple. It's not like a. Yeah, yeah. Anytime in your kitchen there's an extra step or anything hard between that and then like dinner on the table.

[Anya]

Extra friction. No.

[Lisa]

You got any friction?

[Anya]

Yes. Yeah. Well, you got to know yourself. I mean, for some people that's fine. They don't mind the extra steps. I have a son who can Spend two hours making something. I'm like, okay, we can. Okay, we really need to, like. And he'll open the book. No, no, we're doing. No, we will. Yeah. So. But for most people, especially if you're trying to get into a habit, into a rhythm and kind of like where you don't have to think about it, you want to remove all these unnecessary steps and. Absolutely. And also. Yeah. If you're getting started and then you get bugs in your. In your flour and your grains, that's a big turn off. And then you're like, oh, I don't know if I want to.

[Lisa]

This doesn't work.

[Anya]

This is. Yeah, yeah.

[Lisa]

Too much hassle. Yeah, yeah. So to set yourself up because, like, you're at this point in. Me too. Like, if that happens to me, I'm already confident enough in my bread baking skills and the health benefits that it provides that I'm like, I can deal with that. But, yeah, I mean, I still don't want it to happen.

[Anya]

I don't like wasting stuff. No.

[Lisa]

I hate when I have to waste something. Thankfully, when you have chickens, they enjoy the extra.

[Anya]

Right?

[Lisa]

Moth.

[Anya]

Yeah. Bites. Yeah. No, it's actually. It makes. Makes it for a better yolk. Sounds weird, but makes for a better yolk.

[Lisa]

I mean, they. They don't seem to mind at all. So with chickens, you don't really waste least even that because they're like, yes, bonus. Thank you for growing these for me. In your kitchen. What kind of grain mill do you have? And have you had it a long time or have any? I think you and I both, actually, now that I'm remembering, I'm pretty sure you also have a video on comparing, like, different grain mills, right?

[Anya]

Yeah, I have the mock mill.

[Lisa]

Okay.

[Anya]

Initially. So when I. When I moved to the US in 28 years ago, I, I think I actually. Because I think we brought some kitchen appliances because I didn't want to have to buy everything right away. And remember, I was still baking and I mean, I was baking in Germany before I came, and so I brought one and then we had a big converter in the kitchen, or transformer, actually. And then we plugged it in and eventually I needed something different, so I got a standalone, and then that one broke. And then I decided, oh, I have a KitchenAid. Why don't I just buy an attachment for my KitchenAid? And I did a KitchenAid, makes their own attachment. And then I, you know, I'm constantly learning and upgrading and, you know, adding more. And then I learned that the KitchenAid attachment. The grain mill attachment has a steel grinding mechanism, and with that being said, it actually heats the flour really hot. And then I thought, you know what? And especially since I'm having the blog and the YouTube channel, maybe I should upgrade to the Mockmill KitchenAid attachment, which is the same idea. You just put it on your KitchenAid. But it has the ceramic grindstones that don't heat the flour. I mean, anytime there is friction and grinding is friction, it produces heat. But the grindstones don't transfer the heat quite as much as steel does, for example. So I did that and then eventually I felt like, okay, so I'm actually baking more and I'm enjoying it. And. And then I got the Lino 200, the nice one with a wooden housing. And oh my gosh, I absolutely love it. It's just, it's. Yeah. So if you have the space and the budget, get it.

[Lisa]

Yep. I, I agree with you. It, it, it's so great. Actually, my sister, I've had the mockmill for a long time. Her nutrimil just went out and she upgraded to the mock mill and she was saying just how like, she feels like her bread. She didn't know what, like why her bread wasn't turning out near as well. And it, the way we have our set, it grinds it so fine that, yeah, it makes it such a soft, fluffier bread. I'm sure you can, you know, you can obviously set it to different amounts based on how you have the grindstones. But her last one, she said, just didn't make it near, you know, near as fluffy as that. So she's loving it too. My mom has a mock mill and she's been making whole grain bread. So we all, we all love it. Like you said, it is a pricier option. And so if that's the thing that's stopping you from making whole grain bread, there are less expensive options, like quite a bit less expensive that will also produce great bread as well.

[Anya]

Well, also they have the, they have different models and people are always asking. And since we're on that topic and I happen to know these things, there is a, there's a Mocma 100 and a 200. And basically that's just a milling speed. So the 200 milliliters quite twice as fast as the one. So I think it's like 100 grams in a certain amount of time. And in the same amount of time the 200 mils. 200 grams. So it's twice as fast. And so obviously the 200 is more expensive than the 100, but they also, I mean, I love the, the wooden housing, but they have the other one that they call the Arbo blend. It looks like plastic, but it's sort of like eco plastic. Right. And so the, the Arbolin 100, the regular Mocvo 100. I feel like if you want a standalone, if you don't want the KitchenAid attachment and you're, you're baking bread pretty often, you're, you're committed to the process and you want to continue doing it, then I feel like it's absolutely worth upgrading from an attachment to a standalone. And the Machma 100 is the most economical option that they have.

[Lisa]

Yeah, that's a good point. You don't have to go right into the 200 with the wood housing that looks beautiful on your counter in order to get great results.

[Anya]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

And I always like, when I first bought a grain mill, way back in the day, I bought the big Nutra mill that has like the bucket attached to it. We didn't have a huge budget at all. But I thought about what, how many loaves of bread that I bake am I going to actually be equal here? If I'm. It depends on what you're sourcing. Now. If you're sourcing like $1 bread and you're trying to compare it to that, but if you're sourcing quality bread, which is an apples to apples comparison, you're going to come out money ahead. If you bake for years and years all the bread for your family, I think long term it's a good investment.

[Anya]

I think it is and I think it's, it's a really sensible investment because not only will your breads taste better and you have so much more flexibility, but they're also going to be more nutritious and you have 100% control over the ingredients. I mean, in my area, I mean, yes, it's a very expensive area. An artisan loaf of bread you can barely find under $10.

[Lisa]

Yeah. And even still, that's probably just made with all purpose flour. It's minimal ingredients. So it's better like your probably only gonna, you're not gonna have like preservatives and all of that. But my home baked bread, you know, it's freshly milled whole grain, all, you know, honey, salt, oil, like all these ingredients that I have carefully sourced and then the bulk of it is a whole grain that I buy in a 50 pound bag. So really, if you compare the price per cup of flour, it's actually really cheap.

[Anya]

It's very cheap. Yes.

[Lisa]

Yeah, yeah. And when it's such a quality product, you can make it more of a staple of your diet too, and potentially leave out some more expensive things or at least bulk it up with the whole grain bread and reduce down some of the more expensive things that you might be buying. And so all those things to say, I think it's a great investment. I mean, I bought one when it was a significant purchase way back when Luke and I were first married, so.

[Anya]

Yeah, yeah. But I think if you're committed to it and you know that you're not one. Oh, you know, I mean, like, people get these kitchen appliances all the time and then, you know, next thing you know is they're. They end up on some neighborhood network and they're selling because they're not using them. So if you're not sure about it, then, you know, by all means, you know, try something first or, you know, but they, you can get them used.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

Sometimes they have refurbished ones at Machmo. It's always worth it.

[Lisa]

You can find one on Facebook for somebody who didn't stick with it. I've seen that on Facebook.

[Anya]

Yep, yep. And. Or you can make that a Christmas present and have family members pitch in. I mean, there's. If you really want it, I feel like there is ways to make it happen, but it is definitely an absolutely worthwhile purchase.

[Lisa]

Yeah, I completely agree. All right, well, tell us what's going on over on your channel right now. What are you baking, what are you teaching, what are you excited about and where everybody can follow along with you.

[Anya]

Yeah. So I'm experimenting more with other sourdough recipes next to my. So I always have the German content and the German recipes and, you know, homestyle cooking. So none of my recipes are super fancy, sort of like upscale restaurant worthy. They're really more everyday home style food. It's, that's, that's basically. And if you want a little bit more fancy, you can always play with the ingredients for the presentation. But that's not, that's not me, you know, and so I'm expanding more into other baked goods with sourdough. But also people constantly ask me questions about this and, and methods. And what do you do, you know, how do you know if your sourdough starter has gone bad? There are so many different ways in which it might look like your sourdough starter has gone bad just to touch upon it. Like the hooch. You know what they call the hooch? Like when you get that layer of liquid on top has it gone bad? No, it hasn't gone bad. You can, you know, some people say, throw it out. Other people are like, pour it off. Other people say, you can store it back in. I typically store it back in. And I say it typically means that your sourdough starter is hungry.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

And that you just feed it some flour. Somebody recently asked me through my sourdough course. I have a private Facebook group, and somebody sent me pictures and asked me, oh, what is this? And I said, to me, I mean, you know, it's hard to give a definitive remote diagnosis, but to me, this looks like calm yeast, and that's a whole other thing. And calm yeast is not desirable, but it doesn't hurt. You like mold, and it just means an overgrowth of a certain yeast bacteria that you don't want. And usually younger starters are more susceptible to it than older, more robust and mature starters. But then also the whole question around mold, that always. That always comes up. Yep, that always comes up.

[Lisa]

Yes, it does.

[Anya]

And there's a safe answer. And that is just throw it out and start all over again. And then, you know, I have done this the one time that I actually did get mold. And interestingly enough, I was wondering, okay, so why now, after so many decades of baking with sourdough, why did I offset. So what happened was I had my sourdough starter sitting out on the counter next to some fruit. And what I hadn't seen is that the citrus fruit, there was a little mold on the bottom. And mold spores can actually jump over when people are asking, so why do you get mold? Or when that question comes up, this is one of the reasons, if you have something moldy in your kitchen, mold spores can jump over. And this was, I think this was a. I was trying to make a gluten free sourdough starter for the people who try to avoid gluten. And just to see how if my method actually would work for gluten free. And short answer is, yes, it does. So then I got more of them, like, oh, this is interesting. Okay, so now I need to go investigate.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

So, yeah, so there's always that. And people are. I mean, I get so many questions all the time and I try to really wrap them into a video because, as you know, I mean, we only have 24 hours in a day and we can't answer all these questions individually. But I.

[Lisa]

Well, and then you answer them and people don't watch all your content, you know, because they only have 24. And so then they miss the answer. And so then you're like constantly re. Answering it.

[Anya]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

Which is, which is all part of the process. And what's great about YouTube is you show up weekly to explain things like that.

[Anya]

Yeah, yeah. And yeah. So, you know, always playing with recipes and always trying to see how I can use it in creative ways or new ways. And you know, and then there's a bunch of like, like traditional German baked recipes and then seeing, hey, can I convert them to sourdough?

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Anya]

What would they be like if I converted them to sourdough? And for example, I had a regular soft pretzel recipe forever on my blog and I thought, what if I converted it to sourdough? Or maybe people even asked me, can you make this in sourdough? So I thought, let's try it. And yeah. And I have to say, and my entire family agreed that the sourdough pretzel is actually better than the, the yeast based pretzels.

[Lisa]

I bet they were.

[Anya]

Which is very interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

[Lisa]

Yes.

[Anya]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

Awesome. So all of that over on our gabled home on YouTube. Also our gabledhome.com all great places to follow along. Get those German recipes, sourdough recipes, sourdough education, you know, just a wealth of information that's been passed down for generations. So that's, that's a neat perspective that we don't always, always see.

[Anya]

So, yeah, thank you.

[Lisa]

Thanks for sharing and we'll leave links below to your resources so people can continue to follow along. Always great to have you on Anya.

[Anya]

Yeah, thanks so much, Lisa. It's always fun chatting with Saw.

[Lisa]

Thanks as always for listening to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. My husband Luke and I and our eight kids work together side by side on our little homestead and use our blog, podcast and YouTube channel to reach other homes, homemakers, home cooks and home setters with practical recipes and daily family life. For everyday sourdough recipes, make sure to check out our blog, farmassomboon.com and to dig deeper, we do also offer a course called Simple Sourdough over at Bitvit Ly Farmhouses. That's all one word. Bit Ly Farmhouse Sourdough Course. If you're looking to learn how we earn an income online, check out my free blog Success Masterclass at Bit Ly Farmhouse Blogging School and my YouTube course at Bit Ly farmhouseyoutubecourse. All one word Sa.