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Simple Farmhouse Life
279. Cultivating a Life Well Lived in Every Season of Motherhood | Sally Clarkson
01:01:28
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- [00:00]
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- [00:38]
Lisa
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- [00:43]
Sally Clarkson
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- [00:45]
Happy Mammoth Representative
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- [01:35]
Sally Clarkson
One time one of my kids said to me, you know mom, the house becomes a wreck and then we clean it up and then it's a wreck again and then we clean it up. It's just a cycle. But when you're happy, everything goes better. And when you're not happy, we all feel guilty. So chill mom, and just enjoy life. He was right. The nature of having all these children in your home is that it's going to be clean and dirty, clean and dirty. You know, dirty dishes, clean dishes. There's a part of each of us that needs to accept we are limited, we are not perfect, we need to take care of ourselves because this is A marathon. It's not a short distance run.
- [02:06]
Lisa
My name is Lisa, mother of eight and creator of the blog and YouTube channel Farmhouse on Boom. On this podcast I like to talk about simplifying your life so you can live out your priorities. I help you learn how to cook from scratch and decorate on a budget through this podcast and my courses, Simple Sourdough and the Simple Sewing Series. I also help people reach their goals from home through my business courses, Create your blog Dream and YouTube Success Academy. I will leave links to these resources in the show notes in description box below. Now let's get into the show. Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life Podcast. I mentioned in an earlier episode that this is the year of the repeat guest. A lot of the guests that we've had on in years past that you all were very encouraged by or just in some way very much enjoyed. Whether that's entertained by, encouraged by. Well, today I'm having on one of those guests and one that seems to be a favorite of yours, Sally Clarkson. Now, if you read books, you've probably at some point encountered Sally Clarkson's work. She has written a lot of them. She is someone who is on the other side of parenting in a lot of ways. I mean, obviously she's still a parent, but her kids are grown and she's moved into more of that mentor role, the friendship role, and she has a lot of wisdom to share. And I think that you're going to really enjoy this episode. All right, Sally, it is so great to have you back on the podcast. You are a favorite guest. A lot of people have put in many requests to have you on again. We're going to talk about so many things, eternal legacies. Your new book, well Lived. If you could start by introducing yourself for those who don't know you, and then also introduce your new book. You're always writing something new. It seems like I'm about to quit.
- [03:54]
Sally Clarkson
I think I'm about to quit. I am a mother of four adult children, three of whom live in the uk and all four of my grandchildren are there. So I do go back and forth in Oxford and in London. And I love education. I love discipleship with my children. I love tea time, long walks, international ministry, and our whole family are hobbits. We just love to eat and talk.
- [04:23]
Lisa
Perfect.
- [04:24]
Sally Clarkson
So that's a little bit about us.
- [04:27]
Lisa
Yeah, yeah. And your new book, well Lived. It's about living and leaving a lifelong legacy. Can you tell us a bit about that and the purpose behind that book?
- [04:41]
Sally Clarkson
Well, it's a long story. And I'll try to make it short, but I think I read my children too many Tolkien and Lewis books when they were younger because they all ended up going to school in England, in the UK and in Scotland because they took all those books to heart.
- [04:57]
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- [06:00]
Lisa
Want more?
- [06:01]
Shopify Representative
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- [07:16]
Sally Clarkson
So a few years ago, one of my children was. Had gotten a scholarship for her master's degree in theology there. And she said, mom, you've got to come take care of the baby. Well, I finished this degree. And so my husband got us a house, got me and my other daughter, who was finishing her Ph.D. a house in Oxford. And it ended up because I worked in correlation with a couple of different churches there over the next four and a half years that I got to spend almost five years in Oxford. And when I was there, I turned 70 and I thought, you know, I was just reflecting on my life and I thought, I have had such a blessed life. And yet it has been intentional. The things that God graciously put in our heart to do from really cultivating a discipleship environment, an organic view of faith in our home where the kids could feel like Christ was almost palpable and knowing that we were supposed to worship God with our minds. So we filled our home with books, literature, and we needed them to learn how to work because there was always a lot of work to do. So that. And just learning how to walk in grace because it's a very chaotic, difficult world. And I thought, I need to write a book that while I'm living in Oxford because I had many hours to walk. And I taught two Bible studies with people from 40 different women from eight different countries. And I was really pondering what matters. And people need to build their foundations on things that last for eternity. And so a publisher came to me and said they wanted me to write a new book. And so I thought, I want to write about leaving a legacy of gratitude and grace to try to live well. And so that's where this book came from. But the fun thing was the publisher sent a team of photographers, editors, and several women came for a week. And they followed me around Oxford and took a picture of every place I used to go. Coffee shops and place I got my flowers and my grocery store and my grandchildren. And it was so much fun. So there are hundreds of pictures in this book, but hopefully a lot of encouragement if women find themselves in the middle of the difficulties of life in this chaotic culture and time. And I was wanting it to be an encouragement to them to know how to live well and how to leave a legacy of gratitude and of grace that their grandchildren and children could follow for many years to come. That's a long answer. That's the longest answer I'll give.
- [10:04]
Lisa
No, that's totally fine. I think that's really important. We have. I think when moms are young, it's not just young, but they have young kids. It's easy to lose sight of the bigger picture just because there's so many things that are going on. There's. There's activities, there's to do lists. And how did you set up these eternal goals and recognize their importance and then live them out even amongst all of the things that you had to get done without getting distracted? And I don't know if it's. It's definitely, probably a more challenging time today, but that's not saying, like, well, that just means it's not possible. Like, you can't just do that, right?
- [10:45]
Sally Clarkson
But, well, long story short, I have all these long stories. Though I had gone to church when I was a young girl, I really prayed that if there was a God in the universe, he would make Himself known to me. When I was a freshman in college and this woman came to my dorm room, 10th floor dorm room, in the middle of an afternoon and basically helped me to understand the life of Christ and what his purpose was for me and that he loved me. And so from that moment on, I began pondering, if God came to the earth, what did he do? He chose to pour his life into real life, people and real relationships. He taught, he loved them. He made them meals on the beach. He healed their family and friends. He affirmed them with his words. And so I really began studying Christ as my model of influence for my own children. And it continuously throughout my whole life led me to the right goals. And, you know, I realized if I wanted my teenagers to believe that God loved them, that I needed to start out loving them when they were babies, that I was going to be the picture of Christ that they would eventually believe. So it was really just staying close to pondering the life of Christ, his values, his admonitions, as a radical way of living life in ministry. And so that's kind of a nutshell, what we did. I wrote a lot about it in different books, but it was not being distracted. I think one thing I've realized as an older woman, too, is it can seem so busy when you have all these kids around, but you really only get about 20% of their lives in your home. What you do when they're little and when they're teenagers, eventually they're going to live 75% of their life away from you making adult decisions. And so part of what we did, too, is we started out with a long view in mind. Like, what do we need to give them in such a way that when they're adults and they confront difficulties and they have to pay their bills and they have to have relationships in marriage and with children, what. What can we give to them in such a way that we're preparing them to flourish as adults with their own vision for how they can play their role, their story in the life of Christ in their time. And so we kind of had long term focuses that were beyond just curriculum or activities. It was about reaching their hearts, giving them a vision, inspiring them for a long term flourishing life, if that makes sense.
- [13:31]
Lisa
It does. It makes sense. And I'm so curious on a practical level, which I know in your book Life Giving Home, you talk pretty in a practical sense about what this looked like. What kind of things did you have to say no to for your priorities to line up with your life? Because we can fill the schedules just to the point where it's like impossible to actually not lose sight of the eternal vision for all of this. Was there a lot that you had to say no to along the way?
- [14:03]
Sally Clarkson
Yeah, I can remember when they were really little, we were living in a small Texas town. We signed them all up for basketball and we quit that really quickly because for one thing, they all got chickenpox and then encephalitis and then pneumonia. Oh, boy. They kept going to the little classes and getting sick. But also I began to realize I can't have all of them. And it ended up that it was six nights a week between all the games and stuff. So we asked the kids at one point we said, you know, we travel and speak a lot or we can stay home and do sports and activities. And we explained what it would mean and where we would go, what we would do. And we gave them a choice to have an influence on the schedule. And all of them, all four of them, said, I would rather do the conferences and travel and have friends and do all the fun things that we do as a family. So we said no. That's just a tiny example. It wasn't. We aren't against sports. I have brothers. I only had brothers. But we did have to say no to a lot. We allowed each child one activity outside the home because we did a lot of things as our family. And we traveled and we had conferences. So each of them got their one activity and ended up that several of them picked the same ones or groups or whatever. And then as they got older, we had them enrolled in support groups and classes and stuff, choirs, stuff like that. It's different at different stages.
- [15:30]
Lisa
Yeah, it is. I know, it's really like you ask questions very broadly. People like, well, what about this? It's like, well, if you're in one stage, you're going to say one thing. If you're in another stage, you're going to say completely another thing. And so, yeah, it's kind of hard to generalize what that looked like over the years, but I know how quick, just like the everyday stuff, just like keeping the home and making food and like any of the activities can swallow up all of your brain space to where you're not even thinking about any vision beyond today or tomorrow. And I'm curious how you and your husband sat down or did you sit down and like, think this through? Or was it just like you kind of came into marriage with this vision and you were able to stay on it through all of the different years and seasons?
- [16:17]
Sally Clarkson
We, we definitely didn't come into marriage with a vision. I had never changed a diaper in my life.
- [16:23]
Lisa
Yeah, me neither. And maybe one of my sisters, but I think my, one of my other sisters was more like the one that would have grabbed the baby and done that. So I don't know that I really did either.
- [16:32]
Sally Clarkson
But we're both kind of, we're both intuitive on, you know, if you say Myers Briggs, and we both kind of intuit ideas, we like to organize life, we like to be goal oriented. And so we continually simplified our lives. You know, we, we did do all the meals at home. I mean, we ate meals almost every night together. And my kids were in there helping us. You know, they learned from the time they were very little. I think that developing rhythms and routines is such a friend to families because our kids kind of grew up knowing what to do. Who was going to set the table every day? You didn't get to, we didn't change chores. We gave them the same chore for eternity.
- [17:09]
Lisa
Okay, that makes it simple. Yeah.
- [17:11]
Sally Clarkson
So, you know, one child would load the dishwasher at night after dinner, the other one unload it the next morning. And then somebody was always setting the table or that's just an example. Every afternoon at 5:00 I would put on really interesting music and we would set a timer and we would pick up the house for 20 minutes and go back into boxes and, you know, into Ziploc bags. We had puzzles that went into those and we had a rhythm that before we all had dinner at night, that's what we did. And so we had a bedtime blessing routine. We had times when we had Devotions every morning. And I think the more you can have a rhythm and your children know what to expect, then the more you can get those specific tasks done. I only really cleaned house once a week. You know, we would take an hour. And in other words, if the floor wasn't vacuumed the rest of the week. Oh, well, we knew it was coming. You know, they would eventually. Right. And I cooked a lot of meals ahead. Probably, like, a lot of what you do, you know, as a bread maker, I. I cooked a lot of meals and froze them. Like, I would always have bags of chicken meat and. And turkey meat and the ground turkey, which we use instead of. We sometimes we use ground beef, but we. We got into turkey, so we would have bags of those in the freezer so that at any moment, I could use them in simple recipes. But I think you kind of have a grace when you're younger to do all of this, because now that I have. Now that I'm. I'm almost 72, I don't have quite the same grace as I used to. In other words, when the kids and the grandkids and the spouses are all here, I think, how did we feed all these people Thousands of years, but now everybody else cooks too, so it's fine.
- [19:01]
Lisa
Well, we come over to my parents once a week, and I have eight kids. My sister has seven. One of my other two sisters. One has two. One has one. And we bring our spouses, and we come in there, and she cooks for all of us once a week.
- [19:15]
Sally Clarkson
If my kids lived anywhere near me.
- [19:18]
Lisa
Yeah, yeah, I know. I. I like, I. I imagine that I'm really gonna love that when I'm that age, but maybe it's overwhelming when you've been out of it for a while. But she never really got out of it because we kept coming, you know, forever. Like, that's always been this way. But, yeah, it's. It's funny. Like, there's. It's just such a huge gathering at this point. Yeah. I like the simplicity of establishing these chores. I think a lot of times we overthink that. We come up with all of these different chore charts.
- [19:50]
Sally Clarkson
Were my enemy.
- [19:52]
Lisa
Same. Yeah. I'm like, we don't do that. A lot of times moms will ask me, like, what about seasons where they feel really unmotivated, very overwhelmed with just, like, the basic everyday stuff, you know, just, like, keeping the house, making the food. And, of course, this could come from somebody who's in maybe a season of, like, three kids under four or something. Like that. But what do you, what do you say to those moms who feel like I don't even have the motivation to even establish something like that? Like I'm.
- [20:23]
Sally Clarkson
Well, I think that's such a good question because a lot of what I write about is when they get a little bit older, because I think sometimes you do have survival. My children were all ear infected asthmatics, and they were in and out of the hospital, and I didn't sleep for so many 20 years that I thought I was actually dying. And people were going to feel sorry for me when they found out.
- [20:49]
Lisa
When you were dead.
- [20:50]
Sally Clarkson
They're gonna be like, somebody will appreciate me then. But I think I was a little bit older when I had my first children or when I got married. And so I was almost 31 when I had my first child, 42. And I had my last one dream. And so I was kind of. I just fell in love with them. I was surprised at how much I thought, oh, my goodness, I get to have this real human being in my life. So I, at least it was a time when I was looking forward to having them. And we moved 24 times, nine times internationally. So it felt like a lot of my children's lives went to that. But I think that sometimes women need to remember that they're human beings, that they have physical needs. They need to sleep, they need to eat healthy, they need to exercise, they have emotional needs, they need to have somebody who validates them because none of us have perfect children. And they're all in process. So it helps to have a friend or support group who has your values that, that can love you. And I remember one time I was quite depressed and felt like I'm not accomplishing anything and life had many difficulties in it. And one of my friends said, I don't know what to do to help you, but I bought you a massage and it's the, you know, it's $100, the big one. And so I went to this massage and, you know, this, this whole group of people took care of me for a day and all. Well, when I got home, I wasn't depressed anymore. I mean, I think sometimes we forget that we are human beings with needs. And also people worry too much.
- [22:39]
Lisa
Oh, yes, I wrote about that in.
- [22:41]
Sally Clarkson
My book and well lived because, you know, you need to celebrate life and you need to see the beauty and you need to enjoy the little, little ones and kiss them on their heads. It makes them smarter. You know, that's, that's physiologically they've tested that. You need to love your children well and take time to listen to them and take time to play. Because I think that teenagers and young adults feel safe with people they trust. Feel safe with people who have loved them well, who have affirmed them. I love who you are. You're going to have a great story to tell. I've made mistakes too. I mean, it's just like us. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is my favorite parenting verse. Because I want people to forgive me when I make mistakes. I want them to talk with me and ask me questions and be interested in my life. And I really never reject a hot cup of tea that somebody actually thought to give to me that I didn't have to make myself. In other words.
- [23:41]
Lisa
Right. So simple, really.
- [23:43]
Sally Clarkson
Yeah, we just, we need to build into our life. I remember when I was 45, I was exhausted and had all sorts of things happening. And I went to a physician and he said, well, you can die early if you want to.
- [23:59]
Lisa
You got a three year old at this point, so not too early.
- [24:02]
Sally Clarkson
Exactly. And depressed teenagers and books to write. And so that's when I really kind of changed my schedule. And it included Saturday morning breakfast out at this little French cafe with a long walk amongst these Victorian houses. Because I love.
- [24:21]
Lisa
With the four kids.
- [24:22]
Sally Clarkson
Nope. Oh, okay.
- [24:24]
Lisa
I'm like, did the kids go on this breakfast? That sounds fine.
- [24:27]
Sally Clarkson
But I, I, I would take, I took my oldest daughter for years, and then I began taking the other kids. But the other thing I did is once, like twice a month probably, I took each of my boys by themselves out for an early breakfast. And one of them was the low fat, build your muscles sort of guy. And the other one was, I want all the high fat. I want to eat bacon and gravy and fry things that I can. But I just, I would do it twice a month. And they knew which day because then I could say, how are you doing? And what's going on? It's when they had driver's licenses and they would go from zero to 70 in two seconds. But, you know, I, I knew that as I watched the life of Christ, relationships were the key for passing on faith to them. He loved them, he served them. He was the disciple. He was the God who washed 120 dirty men toes. And, you know, they trusted him. He said, you're the rock and you're the man in whom there's no guile. And he used words of affirmation. And so when my kids were older, you don't worry as much if they're eating broccoli and spinach and whatever. You know, you kind of go, all I want you to do is be virtuous. You know, in other words, you change to adult ways. And I want to say this, I hope this is okay. A lot of people say to me, how do you control your adult children? And I think it was never my goal to control my adult children, that you do your best to build into their lives, to love them well, to give them a foundation of truth and the word and knowledge and virtue. And you're interacting with them for years in preparation for them, still holding fast to those treasures that you gave them when they were little. And then I stay close to my kids. I love them. I bribe them. You know, I'll send them a gift card for coffee or I'll call them at certain times, or I try to build into their lives still because they're living in a chaotic world. But I think they need encouragement and support now more than ever because they're all living really idealistic lives in a very chaotic world. So I think that you train, train, train with the vision towards sending them into the world to live a story for Christ. But then when they begin going, you trust them and you accept their limitations and you allow them to grow slowly, as you did as a young adult. But it's not about control. It's about loving them and inspiring them and believing in them. Does that make sense?
- [27:08]
Lisa
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. One just very minor example that stuck out is you have this one kid who wants to be bodybuilder and eat low fat, and the other one that wants to go, you know, eat like all the pancakes and bacon and eggs. And, you know, you kind of just like, let them have their own path with that. Like, when we're young moms, we control everything. And there's this process of, like, even down to the food, like, we control literally everything.
- [27:33]
Sally Clarkson
I know. Yeah. Your little club, okay, we're going to Sam's. Everybody is going to be quiet, and we're, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah.
- [27:39]
Lisa
And you can only get away with that for so long. It happens as a process. It's not like, well, you're 18. Like, it happens, you know, where my. My oldest is 16 and of usually sleeps a little past a lot of us. And so she makes her own breakfast. And I'm not like, did you get your protein? Your carbs? Like, she just eats what she eats. Like, she makes ice cream before bed. I don't know. Like, there's stuff in the sink. When I wake up, like, you know, it's not like I'm, you know, you just slowly they. And they, they read their own things, they have their own opinions. And of course you, you can give your opinion, but at some point you just kind of support what they're learning. And, you know, there's that process.
- [28:14]
Sally Clarkson
I love that you said that, because I think if you haven't built most of your ideals into their lives by the age of 14 or 15, we could kind of tell that our kids were through with mommy at that point, not with me, but they didn't want to be mommied anymore. They had developed a lot of their opinions and character and this and that. And I agree with you. You have to very slowly kind of pray about it and let them. If they're ever going to be leaders or responsible in their world, we have to validate their choices, their personality. The other book that just came out with us is called Uniquely youy. And it's basically about the fact that not one of us has the same fingerprints or DNA, and that if we don't recognize the individuality of each child, of each person, and motivate them according to their personality, we're going to lose the ability to influence them as much because each of us responds differently. I never knew how different my children would be.
- [29:18]
Lisa
Oh, man. I was gonna ask you that. Cause that was a question I got on a recent Q and A was how do you deal with so many. Or first they asked, do you deal with a lot of different personalities under your roof? And I'm like, oh boy. And then like, how. How do you, like, do certain ones hang out with other ones more? Like they mesh more? And then are there certain things that, you know, kind of personalities that rub each other the wrong way under your roof? You know, and of course there is. So how did, how did you know? And that's a very loaded question, but how did you deal with that in your home? It's so apparent that kids are so different.
- [29:51]
Sally Clarkson
Oh, it is. It's so different. And I think that one of the. This is a two part answer. We wrote this curriculum called the 24 Family Ways, which was basically 24 biblical principles that we wanted them to live by. This is who the Clarksons are. We treat one another with love and respect. We honor our Lord Jesus Christ. So we kind of would had that as a training basis. Like we could always go back to it. Is that the best way that you could have used your words? Is there anything you can do to serve your brother? Is There any. So they all had the same virtue, heart.
- [30:26]
Lisa
Right.
- [30:28]
Sally Clarkson
We talked about that. But we had two introverts, very introverted, and two extroverts that couldn't be more different.
- [30:36]
Lisa
Yeah.
- [30:37]
Sally Clarkson
And on Myers Briggs, you can use whatever thing you want, but Clay just used that in counseling with a lot of people. But our kids were all extremely different personalities. But oddly, so Clarkson. Most of us measured. Like, if you charted out Americans, almost all of us were 1 percenters, which means that 99% of the rest of America didn't have our personality.
- [31:00]
Lisa
Okay.
- [31:01]
Sally Clarkson
One of my children, he would come in and say, when are we going to have lunch? At 3:00 in the afternoon? I'd say, well, all of us ate three hours ago. He was so. Yeah, he was so. He's an artist and he's a composer, and he would be so into his worlds that.
- [31:20]
Lisa
Yes. In your own world. Yep, I have a few like that. I was like that. My mom would always say, like, just where are you? Hello?
- [31:28]
Sally Clarkson
Hello. I've called you four times. Yeah, and now he's a composer in London. And so I think that instead of criticizing personality, you look at them and say, okay, God, give me wisdom. There are certain things that everybody had to do. Chores and work at conferences and, you know, we all had devotions together and we all had other things. But then I tried to give them freedom to cultivate who they were. And if you expect them to all behave the same, like, if you're a real controlling parenting philosophy, it will not work. If kids feel that you don't trust them, love them for who they are, validate them for who they are. They will not trust you or open up to you when they're adults. I've seen it over and over again that a lot of times. And that's why I made time for them, you know, the two breakfasts out the Saturday morning, long walk. But my kids by that time were my good friends. But I made independent time for them so that they could not a lot, you know, like, I had these cookie dough balls in my freezer, and if I felt like somebody was falling apart or needed some attention, I would say, let's go have some time. In my. In my. My bedroom was my office. In my, my. My couch. In my bedroom was my office. I said, let's go have, you know, something. Like, I would. I had these chocolate chip cookies and I'd say, let's go have a cookie time. And then I would take them in for 15 minutes and I'd say, how are you Doing what's going on. I really appre. How you did this today, or are you struggling with that? It's just 15 minutes every, you know, fairly regularly. But I began to see. And of course, all my friends say, how did you get your children, you know, to be in these academic schools and all that? And was that your goal? Absolutely not. I was just trying to make it, you know, and. But I. We did develop our own philosophy of education, which is I knew that I couldn't do curriculum with all my children. I thought it would kill me. And so we only did very simple language arts and one year of math a piece for each child. But everything else we did together. We read the best books, the best history, the best science. We went to museums and talked. We had this we call a life giving table. Every night was a discussion, what books do you like? What heroes do you have? What did you think about what went on the news today? And I think that most of our education of our children happened by mentoring them over the dinner table. You know, I figured that you're going to have thousands of meals with your children, and so we thought, let's use it to be a place of interest. Would bring movies to the table and ideas and books and controversial things. And it was exercising their mental muscle. And the main goal that we had was not to cover every single thing in the world, because no one can.
- [34:31]
Lisa
Right.
- [34:33]
Sally Clarkson
It was just to give them a love for learning.
- [34:35]
Shopify Representative
Yeah.
- [34:36]
Lisa
That'll carry them through the rest of their lives, which you can learn so much more if you're gonna keep doing it.
- [34:42]
Sally Clarkson
Yeah. And if you love it, if you're validated in it, and that's so interesting. Well, tell me more. Or, you know, if they learn to love learning, then they can teach themselves anything they need to know. But that love for learning is what motivates them to be lifelong, you know, pursuers of knowledge.
- [35:00]
Lisa
Yeah. And they can take that in the direction that their personality leads them, which is going to be very different for each one. I think that's where a lot of moms get worried and overwhelmed, especially homeschool moms, because they feel like they have to. Everything their child's going to learn, they have to put into their brain. That would be very overwhelming if everything that they had to actually learn, like you had to tell them at some point. That's not actually true. Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns Early. Acorns early is a smart money app and debit card for kids that helps them learn the value of money. Acorns Early's Chore Tracker teaches kids that hard work pays off. Just set up chores in the app, set a payment amount and tick the choreography chore off when it's done. Acorns early lets parents pay allowances automatically. No more rummaging around for cash. Automatically send a weekly allowance to your kids account. With just a few taps, kids can spend what they earn with their very own debit card. They'll love the new sense of independence and getting to choose from 35 plus customizable card designs. Plus, parents can keep track of where and when their kids are spending with real time. Spend notifications, kids spending limits and instantly block lost or stolen cards. This helps your kids turn savings into a habit. Kids can use their app to set savings goals. They can even choose their own target dates and turn on the optional auto save feature to help them get there. Grow your kids money skills with bite sized financial lessons. The Acorns early app has tons of fun interactive courses that help kids learn about all things money. Ready to help your kids learn the value of of money? Just head to acorns early.com farmhouse or download the Acorns early app to get started. Sign up now and your first month is on U.S. terms and conditions apply. Monthly subscription fee starting from $5 per month unless canceled.
- [36:51]
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- [38:02]
Lisa
Code farmhouse what other things do you feel like as an older mom? Now things You've seen. Do you think that young moms worry.
- [38:11]
Sally Clarkson
Way too much about one thing is just be easy on the babies. You know, I had this sweet mom recently who wrote me a letter and said, I think she had a two and a half, an 18 month and a baby. And she said, they just don't clean up the house like I want them to.
- [38:28]
Lisa
Oh. And I. I chuckle, but like, with some perspective. That is funny. But I understand because I was that mom for. For sure. Like, I was 100% that mom.
- [38:38]
Sally Clarkson
Yeah. And I think, you know, I was talking to my daughter Sarah, who had four children in five years, and she said, no, no, you take them in your hands and you're going with them. We're going to pick up the toys and you're going to help me. I just so appreciate this. And turn the music on and you're training, training, training all the time. But you don't need to worry so much. Just kiss them a lot and love them a lot and talk to them all the time and give them routines that make them feel secure. I don't know if you feel like that or not, but, you know, I just. It was so fun to. I spent a lot of time with my kids in Oxford, and it's like deja vu. I mean, my daughter realized that while my children were grandchildren were eating, they were. They would listen. And so she started reading to them all of these incredible books that she has stored up from the time they were babies. And they all sit at the table and they all, you know, are eating slowly and listening and interacting and everything. It was a double use of time because everybody has to eat. And. And she wanted everybody to listen. And so that was just a rhythm that she did. But the thing is, it probably took you and me years to figure out our philosophy. Years to get all the rhythms going. And one time one of my kids said to me, you know, mom, the house becomes a wreck, and then we clean it up, and then it's a wreck again. And then we clean it up. And they said, it's just a cycle, but when you're happy, everything goes better. And when you're not happy, we all feel guilty. So chill, mom, and just enjoy life. I realized that he was right. You know, the nature of having all these children in your home is that it's going to be clean and dirty, clean and dirty. You know, dirty dishes clean, dishes dirty.
- [40:28]
Lisa
Right? Yes.
- [40:29]
Sally Clarkson
I think that there's a part of each of us that needs to accept we are limited, we are not perfect, we need to take care of ourselves, because this is a marathon. It's not a short distance run, and we need to learn. And just don't try to do what you're telling them. And I'm telling them when they're nine weeks old.
- [40:51]
Lisa
Right? Yeah.
- [40:53]
Sally Clarkson
Give children time to grow, to fuss, to, you know, just get those rhythms and those vision that you want to have for what you want to do with them. But they do grow out of stages and they do grow up. All children mature. It's just built into their little lives to mature. Don't expect too much of babies. Love them, kiss them, train them, give them routines, and then you'll see that your life will get easier in some ways and more challenging in others. But I think the golden years are when they're old enough, they're potty trained and they can read, but they're not teenage hormones yet.
- [41:36]
Lisa
Well, you were mentioning too, like giving them routines when they're two and a half, three. And I did great with that with some of my kids. And then with some of my kids, totally dropped the ball like I did. You know, the first two, like we did, we did all that. Then there was like a couple where it's like, eh, I didn't really make you do anything till you were like six. But I do want to say, if you miss the boat on that, it's not too late. Like, my kids, who I dropped the ball on, they do their chores now. Like, I didn't do a good job when they were two, being like, all right, little buddy, let's go do this and that. Like, I, I had too many kids in too many years. But now, like that third one, he's 11, he does so many chores and he doesn't argue about it. And I didn't teach him when he was 3, 4, or 5 like that. I miss that.
- [42:15]
Sally Clarkson
Yeah, no, I totally agree. And then there's the children that you'll say, okay, it's time for us to clean up. And they go, they fall flat on the floor dead and say, I'm just so tired.
- [42:25]
Lisa
Right. My legs hurt. That's one of the things my kids say, like, your legs always hurt when we're about to clean a little kid.
- [42:33]
Sally Clarkson
I think you have to have a sense of humor. I mean, you know, maybe the person whose house I was in where their child did that, didn't laugh. I was, I just laughed hysterically because they were such a drama person. And, you know, just, they'll, they will catch it, they will grow. I think it's kind of Establishing a positive peer pressure. Don't you feel like with having so many kids, with me having four kids, they kind of became this little. Oh, this is just what we do every day. And yes.
- [43:02]
Lisa
Yeah. Like, if you do do a good job with maybe the first couple, like, it kind of rubs off on the ones below them. Right.
- [43:08]
Sally Clarkson
Like, some kids are just going to be more organized and neater by personality.
- [43:13]
Lisa
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
- [43:14]
Sally Clarkson
And some are gonna have their car keys in their hand and say, I can't find the car keys.
- [43:20]
Lisa
See? And I'm like that. And so that's why I have all these children that are kind of like that, too. And so I. I put that into perspective when I compare myself to somebody like my sister who was cleaning up after me, even though she's my younger sister from the time, you know, we were little kids. And so her kids are all clean. Well, yes. It wasn't all teaching. It was literally natural.
- [43:43]
Sally Clarkson
No, it's personality. No, I'm the same. I am not a detailed person. I'm a visionary. You know, I'm an encourager. I'm a lover. And I think that what every mom of children needs is somebody who cleans their house on a regular basis. In other words, we had to do it. But I wasn't as natural. Is like, yes, my husband safety pins his socks together so that they'll all be the same age. So when he washes his laundry.
- [44:11]
Lisa
Oh, wow.
- [44:14]
Sally Clarkson
I, however, don't safety pin my socks together.
- [44:18]
Lisa
I buy all black socks. So that way we can lose several and not have to worry about. Yeah, that's the kind of level we're at here. So. And I. We all. We have. We buy two sizes, and the little kids wear this size. And then myself down through about the fourth kid wear this size.
- [44:35]
Sally Clarkson
That's a great idea. Yeah.
- [44:37]
Lisa
Yeah. It's all in a big bin. And that's where I even get my socks, because that's the. The level that. That I care about that. But you're talking about your friend or somebody that you were in their house and then their little boy threw himself on the ground. And maybe it was funny to you, to. To her. The one thing I feel like, like, that made earlier motherhood really hard is that episode alone isn't really that annoying. Like, for an outsider, it's kind of funny. But I think it's the sheer, like, terror that you're messing that child up that actually makes that so hard and stressful and overwhelming. The things that moms are carrying and having the perspective of when they do. If they do that when they're five, but you keep, you know, like, instilling this routine, they will grow out of it. Like, they will eventually not do that.
- [45:25]
Sally Clarkson
Well. And I think, too, women, I mean, make your house a place of enjoyment. Don't make it a house of anger or performance. You have no guarantees. I think I might have mentioned earlier I had three friends that died last week.
- [45:40]
Lisa
Oh, wow. No, you didn't.
- [45:42]
Sally Clarkson
And I feel like we knew that if love wasn't the foundation and grace, because Clay and I made a lot of mistakes. So we believed in the grace of God and to be patient with them and to love them for who they were and be gracious to yourself. I mean, it's amazing that all these women have these ideals and that we have to learn as we go. But the environment, that's going to work. I think that anger tires you out. I think that.
- [46:12]
Lisa
And worry and stress and fear.
- [46:15]
Sally Clarkson
Yeah, it tires you out. And I would say if there's anything that you can do to try to put your anger or your fear or your worries in the file door of heaven. And that's what part of my book, well Lived was about, too. I talked about the fact that if you don't make delight a part of your life, like, we had a lot of devastating years, and I learned that those circumstances would eventually change one way or the other, but that if I cultivated joy and looked for beauty and loved in the midst of it, that we all did better. We all lived well through the difficulties of life. And that's a habit of your heart that you have to learn how to develop and learn how to practice to say, God, it doesn't look like you're in control, but I'm gonna trust you with this situation. And meanwhile, I'm gonna go make some. You know, I don't always make cookies, but make some cookies or we're going to go outside and go on a hike, because I don't feel like teaching today. You know, there you. Your home needs to be filled with grace and with goodness and with memories and with fun, because your children are going to go into a darkest, darkish world. It's. God has trusted us with these difficult times. It's kind of like, you know, we've been born for such a time as this, and how are we going to pass on hope and how are we going to pass on peace and how are we going to pass on faith during this time in such a way? One of my kids recently said to me, you know, you thought it was all the birthday breakfasts and all those wonderful things that we did that impacted us. But he said, I think the thing that was most impactful was we watched you walk through hard times. And we had a pattern for how to walk through hard times in our adult life now. And knowing that you were choosing to trust, choosing to forgive, choosing to love, shaped our lives more than you knew because we were watching you to see how to handle life. And I just think it's so important to not. Don't compare yourself to people. Don't have expectations like you said, that nobody can ever teach. There's not a list of these are the only right books. There isn't a list that doesn't exist. There is no way that if we're really paying attention to their hearts and to our family and to life and all the things that happen, there's no way that we can check off every single box from the goals that we have. But I don't think that God ever required that of us. That's what we wrote about in Uniquely youy. But I think what he wants us to do is to cultivate peace, to cultivate faith, to live by grace with ourselves and with our children and really to enjoy the small times that we've been given until they leave. And now I miss my kids every day.
- [49:17]
Lisa
Yeah. Yeah. We talk so much about enjoying just the everyday mundane life because that's where we find ourselves most. I think we look forward to big things like, oh, we have a vacation coming up or you know, like right now we're building a house, like when the house is done and on the farm and there's all these things like. But there's so many mundane. Like today it's five degrees out.
- [49:40]
Sally Clarkson
Oh yes.
- [49:40]
Lisa
Just, you know, kind of like blah days. Like what are some of your tips for taking those days and finding little ways to just like make your home that joyful place where just the everyday things are the beautiful things.
- [49:58]
Sally Clarkson
We made time every day for pleasure. I learned that when I was 45 and the guy said I was going to die early. I didn't want to die early. People do tease me and they say is all you sit around and do is drink tea. Yeah, pretty much. No.
- [50:15]
Lisa
Wonderful. Yeah. On a day like today. That sounds great.
- [50:17]
Sally Clarkson
I know. But we every day, no matter what, at 3:30 or 4:00 and tea can be. It can be water, orange juice, hot chocolate, coffee. It can be whatever you want it to be. But every day we all sat down and it's funny because two of my or my Son and wife were here for several months with us this summer because it's just a long story. And every day at 4:00 in the afternoon, Clay and those two went out on our deck in their backyard and we had tea time and talk. I mean, it was just so much fun. We have never quit doing it. We made time to do fun stuff every day a break, everybody got a treat. I can't even think of all the things we did. But long story short, I don't know what time we are on, but I learned this when I lived in communist countries because there was a time when this is way before the Internet and my friend and I were living very desperately in the country and we were having a very difficult time with the language and with the secret police with all the different people. And so we decided to take a really quick trip to England where we knew some other people. And while we were there, she, we, both, between the two of us, we only had cash because they didn't have credit cards even. And we had $700, $725 worth of cash between the two of us. And she got a toothache and had to have a dentist work on her. And it ended up costing something like $648. And we only had, we had like two and a half weeks left because we were going to a staff training. We had no money, but we knew that we would be fed at the conference. And so. But it was my birthday during this time and she, she said we're going to go out for your birthday. I said we don't have any money. She said I have enough for us to split one piece of treacle tart. So we went to this little cafe and all of a sudden this little alarm went off and I went, everybody in the cafe looked around. Well, she had set her little as a calculator in those days. She had set her calculator for five times to go off while we were at the cafe. And every time it went off, she gave me a little gift and she had wrapped them all and you know, one of them was earrings and other was a little box to put them in and stuff. And I said, we don't have any money. How did you do this? And she said I planned for delight ahead of time. And she said for six months I've been looking for tiny little gifts knowing that we were going to come to this place. And she said because I plan for delight, I always have something to give. And so she gave me these five little gifts. Well, then we ended up Doing it later on with some of my other kids. You know, they just love the little bbbb. But the point is, and the point of the chapter and point of it in life is I wanted to become a person of joy. I take Joy was the name of my first blog. I thought, you know, it's something you determine to do. You cultivate it, you pass it on to people. It's a Persona that I thought Christ wanted me to be in my life. We had been in terrible situations in communist countries. I think whatever your personality is, name five fun things that you can do as a family. We're hikers and walkers. We go miles out in the snow and with our dogs and, you know, they're just things that we particularly love doing.
- [53:54]
Lisa
Right.
- [53:55]
Sally Clarkson
But if you don't include pleasure and humor and, you know, movies that are. That are delightful or what. If you don't include pleasure in your life, you will become a grump and you'll be exhausted. I think most of motherhood is pretty exhausting. But you. If you don't take care of yourself, and if you don't, whatever you sow is going to reap. I mean, whatever you plant is going to grow. So if you want to be a joyful person, it has to be planned and it has to be practiced. And I don't know if that helps or not, but we included a lot of humor. I have a couple of children who are on the spectrum, and you have to live with grace and you have to live with fun for you to make it through all of the different things that they're going to experience in their lifetime.
- [54:45]
Lisa
Well, it's. It's interesting because it does take being intentional to have these little things to look forward to. And I think a lot of times we're just kind of waiting for somebody else to maybe bring it, bring it up, you know, like, just for an example, yesterday morning, my sister texted our family group, and she was like, what do you guys think if we all go to. Like, we never do this. I mean, we do, but not. Like, it's not something that happens every week. I mean, it happens probably ends up averaging once a month, really. It's not like a set time, but she's like, what if we go to dinner tonight and go to the thrift shop? The girls want to find, you know, this or that. And it's funny how many times when you do that, you find that people have nothing going on. Like, sure, like, what were you gonna do? And it's funny because, like, the same thing happened with recently Some of my daughters wanted to start a little sewing club. And I'm like, just ask some people from church. And there they show up. It's just funny because you think people are so busy they have no time in their schedules. And then you're just like, hey, will you come over on Tuesday nights at 4? And they're like, sure, we'll be there. It's like, well, what were you doing before? Like, you just can.
- [55:46]
Sally Clarkson
I think taking initiative is so important. I've had to start almost every group that we've ever had in my home.
- [55:51]
Lisa
Yeah, you talked about that on the last episode quite a bit that you were on for here. And I think that was just such an eye opener because I think we all think, well, other people have stuff going on and I don't have stuff going on. It's like, well, maybe you just have to literally just. Just ask around and people will be like, oh, yeah, I had nothing going on either. Like, you just didn't know.
- [56:09]
Sally Clarkson
Right. Everybody's not confident, you know, for you to have a bunch of people in your house. So a lot of people don't invite, you know.
- [56:15]
Lisa
Well, in my current house, it's not like that could be a legit excuse because it's quite cramped, but still people show up and still there's enough room to get out a couple sewing machines. It's not like a sewing room, but yeah, like you're. We. We come up with these excuses or we also aren't confident enough to think that people will want to. Or they already are too busy. Oh, they probably got stuff going on. But then when ask. Like yesterday my sister asked three of the four sisters and my mom showed up.
- [56:41]
Sally Clarkson
Yeah.
- [56:42]
Lisa
One of them couldn't. Yeah. And then like the sewing club, several girls could show up. Not all, but several. So it's like maybe people are kind of waiting for you to just come up with some random thing and call it, you know, like tea time or just whatever. Just something random.
- [56:59]
Sally Clarkson
But I think that is so important. What a great story that is. And I envy your family. I want to be one of your sisters. All your stuff. Yeah. When we lived in Oxford, we were there during COVID and so we weren't allowed to have anybody in our house. Only. Only five people at the most. And only one outside or two outside family members. And I wanted to do a Bible study, and it ended up that we had this little house that had a garage. Nobody had a garage. And so I thought, oh, a garage isn't in the house. So I just put out On Facebook. Is there anybody in Oxford who wants to be in a Bible study? And we opened our garage as the place where people met. There was junk everywhere, stuff everywhere. But we put out a little tea tray with the flowers on it and you know, brownies or cookies or something. And we had 15 women that showed up.
- [57:53]
Lisa
Yeah, isn't that funny?
- [57:54]
Sally Clarkson
And it was just, you thought they.
- [57:55]
Lisa
Were all so busy, you know, maybe had no interest, but they're all waiting for you to, to open up your garage that isn't fancy.
- [58:02]
Sally Clarkson
And we had to do it in the garage because it was raining outside. We could have done it in the driveway because the driveway was not inside the house. We weren't breaking the law then either. But you know, our garage, I mean, people loved that we were there, you know.
- [58:18]
Lisa
Yeah, I think it's such an important point to make that the way, you know, we talk. Like one of the questions I was going to ask you was what's the way to reach the hearts of your family, your friends, your co workers with things like hospitality, feasting, giving people a place to belong. And I think that's just kind of the key, like very imperfectly making plans, just reaching out. And it might not be fancy, you know, like it's, you don't have to have the best accommodations for people to want to get together and have something to look forward to.
- [58:51]
Sally Clarkson
Well, I think there's so much isolation and loneliness now. I know I've gone through a lot of time, lonely times from all the moves. And I think that women love to be a part of something and oftentimes they love to help. You know, they don't mind helping you clean up after a really messy Bible study or group of women who are over. They, you know, people just want to be listened to, seen, loved and apart. To feel like they're a part of some. Someone who loves them. And I think that's what a lot of these groups are. You know, whether it's a sewing club or let's meet at the, the secondhand store every Thursday night, you know, whatever it is.
- [59:26]
Lisa
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this I think has been so encouraging. Tell the listeners where they can get your new book. Is it out now? I know it's new. Is it currently for sale or on pre order?
- [59:40]
Sally Clarkson
Well, but we, we did not mean to have these many books come out at the same time, but it just happened. But yes, you can get well lived. It's really a fun and a beautiful book to look at. If you like picture books, it's an adult picture Book. It's anywhere they sell books. And the same with Uniquely you. It just recently came out a few weeks ago. So we. We love messages because they were what shaped our lives, you know, and so I hope that people will be encouraged by them and just. You can find me@sally clarkson.com.
- [60:12]
Lisa
Yep. Every one of your books is so encouraging. So if you're looking for more encouragement like this, then make sure to go where books are sold. Search Sally Clarkson and grab any one of one of her books. So thank you so much for joining us again.
- [60:26]
Sally Clarkson
Oh, it's always so fun to be with you, and I'm so encouraged to know that you have my personality. I just assumed that you were a detailed person who had all your act together, and now you made me feel good.
- [60:37]
Lisa
Yeah, it appears that way. Maybe. I mean, yeah, I maybe do to an extent, but not like in my physical space. Really. That's a challenge. So.
- [60:47]
Sally Clarkson
Yeah. Well, I just mean the fact that you said that you might hold your keys and say, where are they?
- [60:51]
Lisa
Oh, absolutely. I actually, the other day I had my eight kids, plus two neighbor kids. I took them to the pool, an inside pool, ice skating, and then to lunch, and I lost my keys at the buffet, and I. It took an. I had already called a locksmith, but finally somebody found them, and I was like, I'm stuck. I'm stuck here with 10 children. Like, how not even one person can pick us up. Like, we're gonna need multiple vehicles in on this situation. So, yeah, it's. It's definitely a struggle for me.
- [61:26]
Sally Clarkson
You should definitely put that in a book someday.
- [61:30]
Lisa
Well, it's out on the podcast. My. My sister was with me, you know, in her car, kids loaded up. She's like, wait, you can't find your keys? And she was so nice to help me look for it. She called her husband, like, trying to figure out, but like, like, she's probably like, are you kidding me?
- [61:43]
Sally Clarkson
Well, I don't know. I think all the people in my life know to, you know, just take a deep breath when these.
- [61:48]
Lisa
Yep. Yes.
- [61:51]
Sally Clarkson
Awesome.
- [61:52]
Lisa
Well, thank you so much for joining us.
- [61:54]
Sally Clarkson
Oh, it's always a privilege. Thank you for having me.
- [61:58]
Lisa
Thanks as always, for listening to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. My husband Luke and I and our eight kids work together side by side on our little home homestead and use our blog, podcast and YouTube channel to reach other homemakers, home cooks and homesteaders with practical recipes and daily family life. For everyday sourdough recipes, make sure to check out our blog, farmassomboon.com and to dig deeper, we do also offer a course called Simple Sourdough over at Bit Ly Farmhouses. That's all one word. Bit Ly Forward slash Farmhouse Sourdough Course Course. If you're looking to learn how we earn an income online, check out my free blog Success Masterclass at Bit Ly Farmhouse Blogging school and my YouTube course at Bit Ly Farmhouse YouTube course. All one word.
- [62:56]
Sally Clarkson
SA.