291. The Long View of Faithful Motherhood: Teens, Toddlers & Trusting God | Abbie Halberstadt of M is for Mama

Summary

Podcast Summary: Simple Farmhouse Life Episode 291 Title: The Long View of Faithful Motherhood: Teens, Toddlers & Trusting God | Abby Halberstadt of M is for Mama
Host: Lisa Bass
Guest: Abby Halberstadt
Release Date: May 27, 2025

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1. Introduction to Abby Halberstadt

In this heartfelt episode of Simple Farmhouse Life, host Lisa Bass welcomes back Abby Halberstadt from her popular podcast, M is for Mama. Abby, a devoted mother of ten, brings a wealth of wisdom drawn from her extensive experience in homeschooling, parenting both teenagers and toddlers, and navigating the complexities of faith-based motherhood.

2. Current Life and Upcoming Trip

Abby shares insights into her bustling household as they approach a busy season marked by homeschooling, household chores, and increased authoring and speaking engagements. A significant highlight is Abby’s upcoming family trip to Hawaii, a rare adventure for her large family.

Abby [03:51]: “So we're entering busy season... we're heading to Hawaii.”

Abby candidly discusses the challenges of traveling with young children, recalling past trips where managing restless toddlers on long flights proved stressful. Despite these hurdles, the family cherishes their Hawaiian excursions, hoping to create lasting memories.

3. Discussing Her New Book: "You Bet Your Stretch Marks"

A focal point of the conversation is Abby’s forthcoming book, You Bet Your Stretch Marks, the third installment in her motherhood trilogy. This book delves into finding worth and beauty in the physical and emotional marks of motherhood, emphasizing that these signs are a testament to the transformative journey of raising children.

Abby [09:44]: “...finding worth and beauty in the ways that motherhood marks our bodies and our souls.”

She explains that the book features contributions from seasoned mothers who have navigated their children into adulthood, offering encouragement and real-life testimonies of growth and perseverance.

4. Cultural Narratives and Faith in Motherhood

Abby addresses the pervasive cultural narrative that motherhood is excessively burdensome and often portrayed negatively. She critiques content like a viral reel by pop star Chapel Roan, which suggests that parenting diminishes one's joy and light.

Abby [01:24]: “If somebody just thinks motherhood is hard, you're totally doing it wrong. That's not realistic. It's not honest.”

Abby counters this narrative by asserting that while motherhood undeniably has its struggles, it is also filled with profound hope and divine purpose. She emphasizes the importance of grounding one’s experience in faith rather than succumbing to societal pressures that seek to undermine the sanctity and joy of raising children.

5. Navigating Online Criticism and Staying True

The discussion delves into the challenges of facing online criticism, especially when sharing faith-based parenting perspectives. Abby recounts experiences with backlash when expressing beliefs rooted in Scripture, such as affirming children who identify as homosexual without endorsing their choices.

Abby [38:52]: “If you persevere in doing good and being faithful and consistent... you respond with kindness and civility, regardless.”

Abby advocates for setting clear boundaries online, choosing when to engage thoughtfully and when to protect oneself from toxic interactions. She highlights that consistency in one’s beliefs reduces unexpected pushback, as people become acquainted with her stance over time.

6. Practical Parenting Tips for Managing Teens and Toddlers

Abby shares invaluable strategies for maintaining harmony in a household with both teenagers and young children. Key recommendations include:

• Prioritizing Sleep: Establishing consistent sleep schedules to ensure the household remains well-rested and functional.

  Abby [48:08]: “Prioritize sleep as much as you can so you don't feel like a crazy zombie.”

• Establishing Rhythms: Creating daily rhythms or anchor points helps ground the family amidst the chaos of varied schedules and responsibilities.

  Abby [52:58]: “Some like anchor points throughout the day.”

• Intentionality and Flexibility: Being intentional in planning while remaining flexible allows for spontaneous moments of connection without feeling bound by rigid routines.

  Abby [53:01]: “Intentionality slash flexibility... helps you stay grounded.”

Abby also discusses the importance of allowing teenagers some autonomy, recognizing when it's appropriate to step back and letting them handle responsibilities can foster independence and reduce parental exhaustion.

7. Conclusion and Resources

As the episode concludes, Abby provides listeners with various resources to further explore her teachings and support her community. She directs audiences to her social media platforms, website, and upcoming book pre-orders.

Abby [65:12]: “You can find me on Instagram @m is for mama... and you can find any of my books anywhere that books are sold.”

Listeners are encouraged to engage with Abby through her blog, Ms.4Mama.net, and follow her on Instagram for continued inspiration and practical parenting advice.

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Notable Quotes:

• Abby [01:24]: “If somebody just thinks motherhood is hard, you're totally doing it wrong. That's not realistic. It's not honest.”

• Abby [09:44]: “...finding worth and beauty in the ways that motherhood marks our bodies and our souls.”

• Abby [38:52]: “If you persevere in doing good and being faithful and consistent... you respond with kindness and civility, regardless.”

• Abby [48:08]: “Prioritize sleep as much as you can so you don't feel like a crazy zombie.”

• Abby [53:01]: “Intentionality slash flexibility... helps you stay grounded.”

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Resources Mentioned:

• Abby’s Instagram: @m is for mama
• Website: Ms.4Mama.net
• Books:
  • Emma's for Mama
  • Heart is Not the Same Thing as Bad
  • You Bet Your Stretch Marks (Pre-order available)

Listeners are encouraged to explore Abby’s extensive resources for deeper insights into faith-based parenting and effective household management.

Transcript

[Lisa]

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[Abby]

So much more of is people acknowledging the hard. Like if somebody is just like, listen, if you think motherhood is hard, you're totally doing it wrong. That's not what anybody needs to hear. That's not realistic. It's not honest. What we need more of is people saying, absolutely, you will encounter struggle, but here's a ray of hope because there's so much more hope than there is misery and sadness and sorrow and devastation like the world is trying to tell us there is.

[Unknown]

My name is Lisa, mother of eight and creator of the blog and YouTube channel Farmhouse on Boone. On this podcast I like to talk about simplifying your life so you can live out your priorities. I help you learn how to cook from scratch and decorate on a budget through this podcast and my courses Simple Sourdough in the Simple Sewing series. I also help people reach their goals from home through my business course YouTube Success Academy. I will leave links to these resources in the show notes in description box below. Now let's get into the show. Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. Today we are having on Abby from M Is for Mama. I believe this is her third third time on this podcast. Always so encouraging to hear from her. I listen to her podcast M Is for Mama Pretty much every single week. So I'm always getting her advice and her wisdom. She's a mom of 10, and she has so much wisdom to offer, so much that I learned from when listening to her. And I know many of you already know her, even if you didn't hear the last couple podcast episodes with her. So without further ado, let's jump into the interview. Abby, welcome back on. I know a lot of the listeners are very excited to hear you back on, as am I. It's been a while since you've been on. So tell us what's new for those, I guess, who don't know you, which I'm. I'll do an intro in the beginning. So I think most people in. In this listener base know you, but what's new in your world? What is going on currently?

[Abby]

Oh, man. So we're entering. We're entering busy season. I feel like we've had a little bit of a lull. My spring and fall are the ones where, between homeschooling and, you know, scrubbing toilets and doing laundry and putting meals on the table, just like regular mom life, I have the most, like, author podcasting, speaking responsibilities. And so I really have had a huge lull in that since end of November. Ish. Which has been nice. We've just been.

[Unknown]

Now you're picking back up again.

[Abby]

Yeah, yeah. It's about. Well, and our family is actually going on a big trip.

[Unknown]

I saw that on Instagram.

[Abby]

Yeah. So we're heading to Hawaii.

[Unknown]

We've actually. We haven't traveled much with our family, but we have actually been there, which is rare for me to say.

[Abby]

Have you been to Kauai, specifically?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Abby]

Kauai. Y. How'd you like it?

[Unknown]

Yeah, we went. We liked it. I. You don't have any, like, little. Little ones right now. So our biggest issue was. And I know you have traveled far distances with little ones, but my son, who was one and a half, like, wanted to jump out of the plane and there was nowhere to go. Like, it was. It was terrible because it's such a long flight, but that. And then. So, yeah, we love Kauai, but the time change with the really young ones and. Which I'm not telling you anything. You've been to Europe with all your kids and I think your twins.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So you'll be fine. It's great. I was definitely surprised at how hard the time change and the flight was.

[Abby]

Yeah, we. I felt like the flight to Europe was good after the first 30 minutes. The first 30 minutes with one of Our twin boys was sketchy. And then he finally quit fighting his tiredness and conked out for almost the entire flight. And we did like night flights, which. This one I believe is a night flight, if I remember correctly. I know the one back is. I can't remember on the way there, but you're right. When there aren't teeny tinies who just cannot even be reasoned with to, to like prepare them. Like telling an 18 month old or a 2 month, 2 year old like, hey, we're gonna go on this and we're gonna do this and, and it just, that doesn't help if they decide.

[Unknown]

They'Re not gonna do it. Like my son, I mean, I think he screamed like the entire six hours. It was stressful so bad. The, the stewardess, they let, they let us stand in the back where you're not supposed to stand because they're like.

[Abby]

I, I can't like kick 100% have done that before. Not quite six hours, praise God. But it was. We've definitely done like the two hour, two hour range where it's just, we're just taking turns with a child who is just losing his ever loving mind, usually probably because of tiredness, but also because maybe their ears are, you know, pressure changes.

[Unknown]

Yeah, maybe so.

[Abby]

So I do feel a lot more relaxed as far as the travel situation. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Two years later, five and up.

[Abby]

Are.

[Unknown]

Aren't your, your sons around? No, they're four and a half.

[Abby]

But they still, I feel like are.

[Unknown]

Gonna do so much that that same child, he's three and a half now, and he would be like, I'm totally confident that we could fly and be no problem. It'd be the next one down.

[Abby]

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Like I said, the, the fact that we can tell Titus and Toby in two weeks, which means nothing to them, but like in a little while, this many sleeps or whatever, we're gonna go on a plane and we're gonna get fun snacks and you'll get to watch a movie and they're, they're gonna be like, sweet. Let's do. We'll see. I could eat my words in a couple of weeks. But I really, that that part doesn't, I mean, going to Europe, it was like, whoa.

[Unknown]

Yeah. If mine were four and a half and up, I wouldn't be remotely worried. It's always that toddler that knows you for sure. But we did do the overnight flight on the way back and he slept the whole way. And so I was like, okay, this is the only way to Jesus. Because on the Way there. He didn't sleep at all. Like he went the whole day. We woke up at like 4 in the morning. We got there at who knows what time central. And he did not. He decided he wasn't going to do it, but overnight he did. And so it was like a whole different deal.

[Abby]

Yeah. So Sean has had to do installs. He's a software developer that does installs for 911 dispatch centers and so different counties across the contiguous United States, but also Hawaii. Oh, well. And some other countries as well. But he's had to do several installs in Hawaii. So we went to Kauai when this wasn't actually for his work, but when my third, who is now 14, was two months old. So she doesn't remember it.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Abby]

And then. Right. Honor our number seven, who is now eight, got to go when he was like nine months old. And we went to Honolulu and it was a work trip slash my 35th birthday. And you know, we just kind of made it work.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Abby]

So I've had a couple that have been there as babies who don't remember anything, but the rest of them have never been there at all. And they are out of their minds, excited.

[Unknown]

Oh, they're gonna, they're gonna love it. And I think they're going for a little longer. Right. Like two or three weeks or something.

[Abby]

When, when it's a big commitment, like on plane tickets now we, we used a lot of points and we found really good prices, but when it's like that, we would rather stay for a chunk if we can. And so we typically don't do spring break trips like ever. I say typically. I don't think we've ever done a spring break trip. If we do any trips, which there, there isn't always one to do. Like this would be. Be our second big one of our kids lives other than Europe. We usually plan them for right after school is out. So in this case it's literally the day after our homeschool co op gets done. So we. Okay. So the next day.

[Unknown]

Okay, so that's an exciting thing going on in your household. Are you, I believe, working on another book?

[Abby]

Yes. So it's all done and dusted, turned in. We have the study guide prepared simultaneously. They're sending me the proofs on that. It gets sent off this month, so that's super exciting. And I actually am doing my book title and cover reveal while we're in Hawaii. So that's coming up.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Abby]

That'll be preview order day probably like right at the end of April. And then it officially comes out. I think the Release date is September 2nd. So it's at that stage of book writing where, like, all the really, really hard work is done until you have to start all the promoting of it, which is a whole other animal.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So we're a little bit ahead on recording. So it is available for pre order at the time you're listening to this. So. And I can't say the name of it. Well, actually, you could say name it if you want, because they're not going to hear this, but that's up to you.

[Abby]

That's true. Yeah. It's called. It's called you Bet your Stretch marks.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Abby]

Yeah. So it's. It's essentially the third book in the Emma's for Mama kind of motherhood trilogy, which we didn't have that plan from the very beginning, but it became very clear that Emma's for Mama needed to be followed up by Heart is not Same Thing as Bad. And then that we needed kind of one more. So I would say Emma's for Mama is which the subtitles are Rebellion Against Mediocre Motherhood. And it's kind of that laying the foundation biblically for why culture is lying to you about, you know, not that motherhood is hard, that's the truth. But that, like, you can't handle it, it's too much, and you have to find all of your solace elsewhere.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby]

And Hard is not the same thing as bad as taking it to a practical level of like, what do we then do with that with the toddler stage, with the teenage stage, with kind of our own wrong or poor choices, foolish choices, you know, either by doing too much or too little. And then you bet your stretch mark. So my husband Sean contributed to Heart is not the Same Thing as Bad at the end of each chapter. And people loved it. And I've had a lot of dads read it because it had a dad contributing to the end. You bet your Stretch Marks has all of these wonderful, like Titus 2 gone before women who have multiple adult children, grandchildren. They have launched so many kids and they are there at the end of each chapter to say, like, this is what I've learned. Keep going. It's worth it. That's the theme of the book. Finding worth and beauty in the ways that motherhood marks our bodies and our souls. Because the world is going to tell you like this. This really maybe wasn't even worth it. I regret it. It's only you. It's only to your detriment. It's depleting you, it's taking away from you. And yet we have this whole paradigm in Scripture where it's like, I must decrease in Christ, must increase. And motherhood is one of the most obvious ways that that can happen.

[Unknown]

It's a forced way.

[Abby]

Yeah, exactly. You have this built in sanctifying factor. So people like September McCarthy, Heidi St. John, Sally Clarkson, my own mom, Jennifer Flanders. So many other names people will recognize as godly, gone before women who are raising children. Well, writing books about it, like just standing firm against culture, which I love.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Recently there was a reel that went viral and I don't think I ever actually saw the reel, but I saw responses to it. Like, I saw yours, I saw somebody else mention something about it. And so I'm like, okay, I know this. There was a reel that everybody saw that was kind of what you're talking about here.

[Abby]

Right.

[Unknown]

Just like the epitome of what culture tells us about motherhood.

[Abby]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

So you watched the reel. It was basically saying like, yeah, okay, yeah.

[Abby]

So it's this woman named Chapel Roan. It's not a real name. She's, you know, it's a stage name. She's a pop star. She's gotten really popular in the last, I think, year or so. I've heard a couple of clips just like on Instagram or out at a restaurant, but I don't.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Actively listen to her music.

[Unknown]

It's hard to miss this something that gets that big.

[Abby]

Right. It's just, especially with social media because it just becomes like so ubiquitous. You feel like you're being like bombarded with it. So she essentially, in some interview, I don't even know what the interview was or who's. Whose podcast she saw and what all they talked about. But she essentially, in this one little clip, says, all of my friends my age that are parents are in hell. That's how she puts it as a result of being parents, is what she's saying.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby]

All the light has gone from their eyes. I don't know anybody that enjoys it. Which is what's getting the response from all of the people that are like, pick me, I enjoy it.

[Unknown]

Like, Right.

[Abby]

Maybe not. Maybe not. When your kid's screaming at you for six hours on the way to Hawaii, that would be masochism. Like if you enjoyed that. Right. But, but in general, to say that it has no value and the, the people that have chosen to be parents are the ones who have no light in their eyes is obviously a pretty skewed perspective. And coming from someone that isn't married and doesn't have children of her own. So I feel like the responses have ranged from like, how dare you? Which is not my response. I don't really expect any differently from someone who is not a believer, isn't a mom, has pursued a completely different lifestyle, and obviously children would be a great impediment to the way she wants.

[Unknown]

To live her life, to live that lifestyle. It'd be literally impossible.

[Abby]

And also our culture very strongly tells us that to make those kind of sacrifices is disingenuous. To not pursue to the max what you want to do is kind of a lesser, less true version of yourself. Again, that's not what God's word says, but that's what culture says. And so it makes sense that if Chapel Roan is being kind of marinated in that culture and even perpetuating it, that this would be her viewpoint. For sure, it makes sense. But then the other. I feel like the good pendulum swing of the response has been like, we get why you would think this, and maybe even your friends really do feel this way without being equipped to be good parents or being in the really, really hard stage of only little kids or something like that. But it's not the whole story at all.

[Unknown]

Yeah, Yeah, I would say it's probably more common. I don't know the statistics on it. Well, I know it would be more common that people would be. Who would see that are not necessarily someone who has no kids, who isn't married, but maybe they're in that place where they have two little kids and it's new and it's hard, and they haven't quite figured out what they're doing, and they're like, maybe you're right. Like, you know, yeah, there's like a big. Not a big difference, but there's like a. There's where you. Where you start, and then there's you who's, you know, had children for 10 years or 10 years, 10 kids for almost 20 years. A very different perspective. And to see. To read something like that and to, you know, your child just threw a massive fit or they, you know, blew out their diaper, or just insert all the things that can happen when you have two children that are small, I would say that those are the ones who could be impacted by that kind of cultural narrative.

[Abby]

Right. Well, I just did a post the other day that went mildly viral. I mean, it wasn't anything like this Chapel Roan podcast, but it just kept getting shared. Because I think what we need so much more of is people acknowledging the Hard. Like if somebody is just like, listen, if you think motherhood is hard, you're totally doing it wrong. That's not what anybody needs to hear. Like, that's, that's not realistic, it's not honest. And so what we need more of is people saying, absolutely, you will encounter struggle, but here's a ray of hope because there's so much more hope than there is just, you know, misery and sadness and sorrow and devastation. Like the world is trying to tell us there is. So it was this post about my daughter Nola, well, my twin girls, but specifically my daughter Nola, who was one of my harder toddlers. And she was such a ringleader for Evie, her twin sister, who probably on her own would not have been as prone to some of the harder behaviors in toddlerhood. But between the two of them, they were just play off each other and feed off each other's kind of constantly elevating emotions. But Nola was for sure the one just leading the charge. And so, so many car rides involve so, so much screaming to the point that I remember at one time thinking, I Wonder if my 6 month old, who is between them is going to have hearing damage because there was nowhere else to put him in the car, right? That was like the safe place to put a backwards facing car seat. And yet his sisters were so loud. And so here I am thinking like, okay, Lord, I kind of thought I had some tools in my belt. These are my numbers, 4 and 5. Evie and Nola, I thought, thought I.

[Unknown]

Knew what I was doing here.

[Abby]

I don't even know that I thought I knew what I was doing, but at least I thought like, here's the principles and here's the thing that I've discovered. I still think here's the principles. I just have no longer fallen into the trap of here's the principles. And I'm going to apply them for three weeks and then we're going to have this wonderful product at the end of it, you know, which I already, I already knew my first really struggle with potty training and he struggled for like a full year. I had a full year of a child who was happy once every eight days. And so I had already dealt with a hard toddler, but two of them at the same time, man, that was, that was next level for sure. And so in this post, I was talking about the fact that if you had asked me to look way into my future and say, what are Evie and Nola going to be like, I probably wouldn't have known how to answer you it would have felt too all consuming for my now to inform my future. And I didn't really want to think about that. Right. I loved them. They were wonderful. They had so many good charact characteristics. They were enjoyable much of the time, but a pretty decent amount of time. They weren't that enjoyable. And I think I can say that without being a bad mom like it. Their behavior was not fun and so we had to work on it. We had to teach them coping mechanisms. We had to pray for them like crazy. We had to persevere. We had to grit our teeth and make it through these car rides. And yes, we started to see improvement. But fast forward eight years past four and a half when they kind of finally started to come out of it. I was talking about how Nola has become Evie as well, but Noah being the highest contrast because she was the ringleader. Someone who while she still has this fun personality, is very outgoing, has a lot of emotions, is also very responsible, is happy to help. Got up at 5:30 in the morning on our co op morning with no prompting from me. Someone was really upset in the comments. They were like, what in the parentification of preteens is this? How dare you make her do this for you. I was like, I didn't do that. I didn't ask her to get up. She was, I, I said what have you been doing since 5:30? And she was like packing people's lunches and it just made her happy to do. I couldn't have predicted that when I was three and a half.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby]

I also am really, really careful not to imply even, and certainly not state outright that this is the result you will get if you do X, Y and Z.

[Unknown]

Right? Yes. Because we've seen a lot of things come out in the last couple years with like, like that was a very prevalent parenting culture about 15ish 20 years.

[Abby]

Ago, I feel like, or even 30.

[Unknown]

My first child kind of on the cusp of that. Like there was a lot of that still going on. She's 16 and. But it was kind of like people were starting. I had a, an older mom at my church at that time who she had 11 kids and she had really experienced all of that and she was like, stay away, stay away, stay away from this book. Stay away from this book. This book. And so, but it was kind of like on the cusp of being over and this very much like if you do X, Y, Z, you will get this result. And we're not dealing with robots here, right?

[Abby]

No. Or vending machines.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

You don't just put in the right amount of change and get the, you know, D3 or C7, you know, that you asked for. How so? So it's that that constant balance of recognizing and I think what I said in the post was the Lord is sovereign and brings the harvest, but our work still matters. Like it's not like this happens randomly. I absolutely invested like crazy in Nola, but I couldn't have determined the outcome. And when you start seeing what the Lord is doing in your kid's life, it gives you a lot of joy and a lot of relief but a lot of humility to be like, I didn't. I don't even get up at 5:30 and pack all my kids stuff. Clearly that's not coming from me. That's just a gift that the Lord gave her that I was not able to see in the midst of my really, really hard season of six kids seven and under, you know. Yeah, but, but I think people need to see that there is hope that that kids don't remain three and a half and their behavior or one and a half or wherever hard stage you're in that your now is not your forever.

[Lisa]

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[Unknown]

Stay hard past that? Like, you know, yeah, there's, there's kids that despite all of your efforts, stay hard, you know, well past those toddler preschool years.

[Abby]

I talk about this in you bet your stretch marks all the time because one of the people that well throughout it, I don't know that it's every chapter, but I, but I emphasize this concept that, that in the same way that we're not trying to get vending machine kids by putting in something and expecting a result and then being disappointed by it. When we are at that point where we have said this is not my goal, but nothing's changing. We are really, really encouraged by scripture to turn around and look at our own situation, our own growth, our own maturity or lack thereof, our own hearts and say, lord, see if there be any wicked way in me, not see if there be any wicked way in my child. Because the answer is going to be yes, we are all sinners. We have all fallen short of the glory of God and there is going to be a wicked way in our child and a wicked way in us. And if we can be Faithful to say, lord, this is worth it. And the Galatians 6, 9, you know, produce a harvest if you do not give up, don't grow weary of doing good. If we're faithful to say, Lord, show me how I need to grow. Then it frees us from feeling completely responsible for the outcome with our children, from feeling like we have to grip it with fingers of absolute intense anxiety and control. And so the woman that I included at the end of that chapter where I specifically talk about this has a couple of adult children who, despite the fact that she has invested in them, faithfully taught them God's word, memorized God's word with them, been kind to them, provided them with wholesome friends, wholesome learning opportunities like, she. She is a wonderful mom. She is really someone that I look up to and would love to emulate. So this is not one of those things where we try to go, okay, let me nitpick and find the failures.

[Unknown]

Wrong.

[Abby]

Exactly. Exactly. What. What did she do so I can avoid it? And then. Then I won't have her outcome. And yet her. A couple of her adult children are still really struggling, and one of them is someone that she's struggling to have. She's. She's willing and ready to have a relationship with them, but they're struggling in life right now. And so she doesn't know the ultimate outcome. That's the thing is we keep deciding at every hard stage, this is it forever. And that robs God's power from our kid's life. You may have a kid that truly remains resistant to and in rebellion against God till they're a dying breath. That's a possibility for sure. You also may have a kid that slowly, over time, until he's 50 years old, you know, softens and softens and has an experience with the Lord. It is about the entire time that we're on this earth in persevering and doing good. And so I just love that my friend is like, I would never have chosen this. This is not what I wanted. It's not what I currently want. And yet I can say, blessed be the name of the Lord. He gives and he takes away. And I have seen so much growth, both in my own character, but also my relationship and closeness with God. I saw. I think it was a Charles Spurgeon quote, but it was like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna mangle it. But it was something to the effect of the amount of times that people have said, wow, I grew so much in this really easy circumstances. About zero, huh?

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Abby]

Implying obviously that, that crucible, that pressing down, that being, what does it talk about? Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna mess up the, the reference to this. But we are, are pressed down. We are crushed, but we're not destroyed. Yeah. You know, and so I, I don't ever want to sell someone, gee, I sure hope your child strays and is estranged from you. But I will say that if it happens, look to Jesus rather than to your child's behavior, because he is the author and finisher of your faith, not that child.

[Unknown]

Right. And I like what you said about like looking to, not looking at your child always and feeling like, oh, this is necessary. It's kind of like going back to when you're a young mom and they won't sleep or they won't potty train and it's just an all consuming thing because you can't ever see the other side of it. But then at the same time you get to a certain point and you're like, oh, I have a teenager like this. But you haven't yet had adults. Somehow I don't think that that really applies. Like, you think, think. Okay, no, now I'm in control. Like now I'm gonna do something about this.

[Abby]

And they're a reasonable human being and they can, we can have conversations. So I should be able to get through to them.

[Unknown]

Exactly, exactly. It doesn't feel the same. Like, I can, I can now because I've been through seven children now who are potty trained who sleep through the night. I can now be like, no big deal, like literally, like it's, it's, it can't even phase me because I'm just like, eh, you're on the other side of that in no time. Even though when my first and second and third we're going through that, this all consuming thing and it felt so long, so long.

[Abby]

And then you see that you such.

[Unknown]

A mountain to cross. I was talking to my sister yesterday and she has someone close to her whose baby wouldn't crawl. And she's eight months and she said, how do you teach your baby to crawl? I've been trying to show her. I'm putting her hands like this and I'm, you know, that's funny when you've already had several kids who've crawled because you don't have to teach them to crawl. But when you're, you think everything's up to you. Like I have the power to teach and shape you with everything and I must show you how to do everything all on my own. And somehow that's easy to see now for me with, like, babies. But then it's not as easy to see with older kids.

[Abby]

Right, right. And. And you do want it to be that if you can have that reasonable interaction, that surely, surely they'll listen to you. One of the reasons why I wanted to have all of those moms that have the adult children, not all of whom are walking how they would want them, but all of whom they still love and are invested in and are happy that they have, like, this is not this. Oh, parental regret. I would. I would give that one back because he didn't, you know, he got. He came out a little burnt, you know, kind of thing. Yeah. These are these moms that are absolutely still championing the goodness and the sanctification and the worthiness of this calling of motherhood. And I so appreciate that, regardless of where they are with their kids, quote, unquote, outcomes. But I wanted to have these moms in there that can speak to that adult experience, because I understand why there would be pushback against someone like me who has one legal adult. By the time this book comes out, there will be another legal adult. But they're still really young and they're still really malleable. They haven't had to get married, have kids yet, do all that stuff that really pushes you and stretches you. And so I. I've had a little bit of a response from some moms that are like 10 years ahead of me. Kind of like, you don't really get it still. I realize you have a lot of kids and. And I'm like, you're right. Right. I would be so arrogant to say that I did.

[Unknown]

I could definitely say, like, as you know, me personally, you're right. Like, I agree with that.

[Abby]

But I think. I think that where we need to land is God's word and his principles are still good. Right. And true. Even if I haven't walked through the exact same stage as you have yet. It's where we start because we see this on the Internet all the time. How dare you speak into this if you haven't personally experienced it?

[Unknown]

You can't. You can't talk about that. Oh, that's just like the most common thing on the Internet. And, and I'm so aware of it too, because I've been on the Internet long enough that I'm like, oh, if I say this, the person with this situation is going to say this, because how dare you say you can do this when you have this? It's like, this is just how else could I speak of my experience except for it? You know, this is.

[Abby]

Right. And it is interesting how it is both a simultaneous devalidating or invalidating of your ability to speak into your experience because your circumstances are different than theirs, and also an absolute validation that their experience must be the universal one. I mean, isn't that weird? It's like, you know, your experience is really specific, so you shouldn't talk.

[Unknown]

And here's my specific experience.

[Abby]

Yeah, but they're filtering it through and I think we're all prone to that. I am so aware of it that I can recognize it and talk myself down from it, usually. So if I find myself nettled by someone's post, I can usually find at this point, having seen it happen to me and two other people on the Internet I've been on. I've blogged for 14 years, so.

[Unknown]

Right, yep, you've been around.

[Abby]

Been on here for a minute. Um, having. Having received it so many times and seen other people that I know and admire receive it, especially when they do it well, I'm like, okay, so how do we walk through this? And then when I feel my hackles rising. So, for example, the chapel room thing, I don't usually do the trends.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Almost by principle. But I was like, this is a really great opportunity to speak into what parenthood is from someone who is a parent, as opposed to just letting us be spoken for by someone who isn't like, that's, that's, that's a great reminder. But I'm not gonna go on full on attack. I'm gonna say, okay, what parts of this are constructive and what parts of this are just personally offensive? Because I'm a mom and how dare you say this? You know, And I feel like, yeah, when we can step back. And this is true in quote unquote. Real life, too. I know social media is real life, as in there's real people involved, but obviously it's able to be curated much more closely. And so I think this encouragement is good for moms in general. When we walk into a situation at church or homeschool co op or school pickup line or whatever, and something about this person's life choices that are not immoral, they're a freedom in Christ type of things. They're just different than we do it. And you feel yourself starting to resent this person because they, like, for example, I don't make sourdough bread, Lisa. I don't. And I would love to. And I just cannot quite seem to get myself there. And yet you don't threaten me because you are the sourdough queen. I can stand back and say, if she were starting to threaten me, that would be on me, not on her, for doing something God has called her to do. And it would.

[Unknown]

And I feel the same way with things. Like you said, you're at church, you have certain convictions, other people don't have them. And you think, yeah, like, because a lot of times the thing that you're feeling insecure about, it's because it took a lot of sacrifice for you to do that thing. So therefore, you want to make sure that other people also find value in whatever that.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And.

[Abby]

And we have to recognize that we can't police people's experiences or their thoughts. We can only present people with truth. And I don't. You know, when you say something like that, you end up sounding a little bit like holier than thou. I mean, like the incontrovertible truth of God's word. I don't mean like, let me teach you how the world works. But just say, like, you know, we're supposed to be content in our circumstances. What are you going to get fired back with on the Internet, if you say you're supposed to be. Easy for you to say, easy for you to say.

[Unknown]

You have a nice house, you have a husband who loves you, you, you.

[Abby]

Loves you, you don't.

[Unknown]

You haven't struggled with just whatever you. There's just like a whole list of things.

[Abby]

Exactly. And I can do the same thing to others, but it's. It's what we do with our self awareness and with that pricking of the Holy Spirit. I've said this, like, on the last four podcasts I've been on. So this must be like the, this must be the drama beating at the moment. But condemnation is from Satan. Conviction is from the Holy Spirit. And if we're in Christ and we ignore conviction, we will be the worse for it. But if we wallow in condemnation, we will probably despair there. And so learning to recognize those moments when the Holy Spirit is like, hey, this really isn't about her. This is about you and your need to be content or not be prideful or, or work on your anger issues or take it to your husband first instead of your Facebook group or your girlfriends or, you know, like this. This is a moment for growth.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby]

We don't really like those moments very much, but if we're honest enough to receive them, I think those are kind of the pivotal points where we actually get over the hump of something we've been Struggling with.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. How do you deal with. You seem to deal with it very well, but like with the Internet and that constant pushback that happens with the Internet.

[Abby]

So what's. I just talked about this to somebody the other day. I can't remember who it was. Oh, it was a friend of mine that is. Is she's a really conscientious consumer of the Internet. She doesn't do any content producing, but like, she's really savvy and I think wise about who she follows and really, really like shrewd about seeing through some of the nonsense. And so sometimes I'll talk through Internet stuff with her. And even though she's not a quote unquote content creator, she understands like what's happening there. She gets it and she sees it happening. The, the kind of. The themes happening over and over again. She's. And of course, what's the response? I don't know how y' all would do y' all deal with this. Like, how does anybody. Well, you have to set boundaries. There are certain people I respond to and certain people I won't. If it seems like someone could be reasoned with, I might try once. Not going to keep going, you know, I'm not going to beat my head against something. Vast majority of things that are just snarky and rude, I'm not even going to respond to. This person wasn't looking for a conversation. They were looking for a chance to vent some anger or some frustration and they found a online punching bag. Right? Yeah, that's okay. I can be someone's online punching bag. That doesn't really affect me that much personally, but it's when. So what I said to her was one thing that I've done is, is weirdly enough, the more I've grown, the less pushback I get. Because once you have been open about who you are, what you believe. I believe God's word is inerrant and true. I believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. I believe that God assigns your gender. I believe that taking an innocent life in the womb is always wrong. I believe that we are called to obey our authorities until they ask us to sin, and then we are allowed to disobey. You know, like if you, if you, you establish, establish yourself pretty clearly from the get go. I had way more nastiness in 2020 than I do in 2025, because people kind of know what they're going to get at this point. So, for example, on what do you want to know? Wednesday I remember back in. I think it was 2020 or 2021, someone asked me, what would you do if your child declared themselves to be a homosexual? And I said, I would not affirm their sin, but I would not reject them as my child. I would, of course, continue to have relationship with them, but that it is loving to affirm someone in something that leads them to destruction. And I had so many responses to that. If I were to. Both good and bad, or both negative and positive.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby]

If I were to say that today, I doubt I would get even a quarter of the responses, even with eight times as many people following me, because at this point, it's kind of like we. We know that this is happening. So I think as you persevere in doing good and being faithful and consistent. Not that I do this perfectly, but being consistent to who you said you were all along and refuse to sway in the winds of culture. There are people that hate you just as much, if not more, for sure. And there are whole forums of them on the Internet. And I know they exist, but I'm also not going to go over there and consume it. It's poison. And I'm not going to have anything to do do with the evil deeds of darkness. And we know that gossip and slander and unkind speech and hatefulness are the evil deeds of darkness. So you stay the course. You continue being who God has called you to be. You respond with kindness and civility, regardless. This includes in your private DMs, it includes in your public comments. It includes in your posts and how you word them. And when you mess up, you repent and, you know, turn away from it and do better the next time. Right? Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, there's. There's boundaries that have to be put in place. I. I sometimes feel like I just, like, ignore everything and then, you know, you want to get into the community, and so you inevitably will have to take in the good with the bad. And I don't know, I think. I think YouTube's a little bit more of a negative place to be.

[Abby]

Yeah, I don't actually. Unless there's. Unless there is a. A notification on my phone telling me what the actual comment is. And I can see it in full on my phone, as in the comment is short enough that I can see the whole thing. Very rarely do I even click over. Now. I don't do YouTube like you do. I have a tiny, tiny following on YouTube because I've never even tried to grow it. It's just a video platform that if someone wants to watch my podcast and video.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Abby]

You know, were it to. Were I to put effort into take off, I'd probably have to police some things just to be. Be careful about, you know, dangerous stuff or whatever. Because I, I do know that people say awful things over there.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

It's almost like they dehumanize you more on that platform. It's like, oh, I just found a video to consume and I can say whatever.

[Unknown]

You're a little bit more random in some ways depending on the type of content than. Than like your community on Instagram, which is, yeah, definitely a different, A different.

[Abby]

Thing and an investment of your time. And you have people that stay around because they appreciate that you're offering something that they want, want, you know, that they feel that they find value in. So I do think that even though. And I have people that I interact with that I've gotten to meet in real life and gotten to spend time with and develop genuine relationships with and I don't know, the Internet can. The Internet is what you make of it to some extent. You can't control a whole lot of it, but you are only responsible for yourself.

[Unknown]

Yep, absolutely. Earlier you were talking about some of the older moms who are at the end of your book and their experiences. And I was thinking about how if the only reason that you see value in raising and having kids and raising them is that they turn out exactly how you want them to be later, then it's very scary to have children. That's just something I kept thinking about. Having that perspective is going to be something that's going to just make the entire experience stressful. Scary and stressful the entire way through 100%.

[Abby]

And I have seen that response. And what I usually find is that somewhere around the teen years, which I love teenagers, I think they are wonderful. I think they're an absolute blast. But they also have their own unique challenges, of course. And they, you know, you can sort of go with that. Little people, little problems, big people, big problems, you know, so a little person problem with the potty training feels so all consuming at the time. But five years into the future, you realize maybe wasn't as you can still look back and go, that was not my favorite. But it's not having that hold on you that a child who got consumed by a drug addiction would, you know, Right.

[Unknown]

The same day.

[Abby]

It's not the same thing. So a lot of just a minor.

[Unknown]

Inconvenience versus like, will my child live? Will they?

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Will they, will they be able to function? Will they, will they make it? Yeah. And that, that I know for some of these older moms who have come back and been like, you just don't get it yet. They have gotten to the 22 to 30 range and are seeing their kids make some hard choices that are having long lasting impacts on their lives. And they're like, they just feel so weighed down with that. And I think, I think it would be impossible not to. I don't think that that's like they're taking the weight of the world on their shoulders. They shouldn't have. Of course we are going burdened when our kids are struggling, regardless of what age they are. It's just whether we crumble under the weight of that thinking that it is entirely on us, or whether we can hand it back to the Lord over and over again, which is hard. Way, way harder than I'm making it sound.

[Unknown]

But, yeah, but yes, if, if I.

[Abby]

See parents who I feel like have really bought into the whole, I need to determine the outcome, what I usually see is that when the teen years come along and they require more of you in terms of, of finding that balance of authority still and mentorship, but also being their friend and pulling back some of that so that they can experience some natural consequences of their decisions while still within the framework of safety in your home. If they still live at home, they just kind of check out. That's where I see. It's just like my kids are jerks to each other. I'm putting on my noise canceling headphones and peace out. Like, I put in the work or.

[Unknown]

Some level of that, that even if it's not because I can find myself doing. Not that necessarily, but like a lot of the. There are just certain times where it's like, you can check out a little bit because they can handle themselves. Like, they don't need you to watch them. And like, this is one of the listener questions we have. It's about having teenagers and young children. So, so, you know, you're in that spot, I'm in that spot. And there is that moment where when you're a young mom and you put the kids, all the little kids to bed and you have like a moment to yourself.

[Abby]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And then when you have teenagers, it's like, okay, do I take a moment to myself or do I now go and play a game with the teenagers? Right. Or like watch a movie with the teenagers? And yeah, I think that I, I'm sometimes guilty of being like, like you guys Just get a snack. Like, I've been, you know, I've been doing this all day long, and now I'm just gonna, you know, I think that's fair.

[Abby]

I think. I think that when we have invested so well or as well as we can, I'm, you know, hesitant to be like, look at us. Look how well we're doing.

[Unknown]

But absolutely.

[Abby]

But I think we both are committed moms. I will say that regardless of any flaws, I'm committed. I'm staying in, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Not tapping out. So. And there's some. There's some merit to that, that for every mom that says I'm not tapping out. And so knowing that that's our mindset, I absolutely think that there's a whole lot of grace for. I'm a huge fan of power naps. I haven't needed them as much lately, but, like, just. I'm going to go lie down for 12 minutes. And whether I fall asleep and then wake up in 12 minutes or whether I just rest my eyes, I do need a moment to recharge. And teaching our children that we are not their be all, end all. We are there a whole lot all, but we're not the be all, end all. If we are truly their end and their beginning, then they don't need a savior. And I need my kids to recognize that they need somebody other than me. And so just raising kids that are aware enough that when they are perfectly capable of doing something, they do it rather than coming to you like they did when they're three and they come and find you all soapy in the shower when their dad's downstairs and you're like, what?

[Unknown]

That happens to me all the time.

[Abby]

How in the world did you bypass all the other capable humans, you know, to get to me? And. And I have soap in my eyes. When they're past that stage, we are 100% doing them a disservice. If it's like, I am catering to your every whim, but I think there's a difference between I'm catering to your every whim and listen, I'm out. Like, I'm just out. I'm. I'm sick of it. I'm over.

[Unknown]

If you want to talk to me, I don't really care. I'm.

[Abby]

Yeah, it's like, I still care, but I need a minute. That's totally, totally legit.

[Unknown]

Those are. Yeah, I agree. Those are very different things. So, okay, this question. How do you manage a household with both teenagers and young children? How can you give teenagers enough Time and build strong relationships with them while feeling exhausted by littles.

[Abby]

Yeah. I think one of the things that you do yourself the best service in providing a kind of moment to breathe is trying to get your younger kids kids on some sort of sleep. Sleep schedule as soon as possible. I know sleep training is like a dirty word especially in the more holistic community, which is where I tend.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And I don't. I think they're. It can mean a lot of different things. But prioritizing sleep as much as you possibly can. As much as that sounds like a joke. I am a well rested mother of 10. I sleep seven to eight hours every single night. And I have for a really long time.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby]

There have been hiccups in that of course because some of my kids naturally slept through the night really early. Some others I worked with and people I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get so many messages. How did you do it?

[Unknown]

You have this information somewhere. I know you do.

[Abby]

I do. I do. And, and what's funny is so I, I have a. You can link it if you want. I haven't even read it myself. I think it says a seven time mama. So I. And I wrote it when I had six. Okay.

[Unknown]

So it's, it's. It's on the blog.

[Abby]

10 years old probably it's on my blog. But I talk about how most of my kids have slept through the night pretty early because I have. Have helped them by being consistent with rhythms and honestly if I had another kid now I'd probably like not do any of those things and co. Sleep well.

[Unknown]

That's gonna say. That's actually probably 10 years ago you was probably a more valuable article than current you because I understand how we get more laid back about certain things. So I'm like honestly go read that. Probably more than like hear our current experiences.

[Abby]

True. It's so true. So I, I would probably be so chill. Chill. I can't do what you do such a good job of with the baby wearing like doing everything because I in general my body does really well. But I have nerve pain in my upper right shoulder that gets activated by baby wearing that goes nuts within 45 minutes. As in like debilitating. Yeah, I wish I didn't because I feel like that that would be a really great thing to be able to do. So I've never been a huge baby wearer because of this thing that I guess I ruined from nursing or twins or something. I don't know.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Abby]

Yeah. And that's of part been the last like Six babies, I would say. And so quite a bit you have to. You have to find workarounds. And there's no explicit, specific formula, but I would really, really recommend kind of finding a middle ground between, like, cry it out, make him sleep within two weeks, which is ridiculous, even though some of mine did sleep that early, but that was probably a total fluke. And then the contact napping complete. Like, if you are not attached to your small child at all times, you're a bad parent. Movement, oh, ye. I think, produces a lot of anxiety and a lot of pressure on moms who simply don't have enough of them to go around. So my biggest suggestion for having enough of you to go around is not feeling like, so hyper sleep deprived. And that's another thing Chapel Roan said. She said none of my. None of my friends sleep. And I thought, yeah, yeah, you might feel a little bit like you were in Hades if you never slept.

[Unknown]

Yeah, right, right. Yeah.

[Abby]

So that would be one. One another would be. And of course, I think about it from a large family perspective, but I didn't grow up with a large family. So I think some of these principles I got from my mom and they still apply if they're quote, unquote, only two kids. Because I just have one. One older brother.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And he's four years older. So my mom, compared to you and me, had quite a bit of breathing space for space between children and then not having any more that were immediately coming in that toddler phase. That's really hard. Over and over again. Or the infant phase. It's really hard. And so her experience has been very different than mine. And yet I still. That she did a lot of things really helpful. And so my suggestion beyond kind of, I really would say three main things. One, prioritize sleep as much as you can so you don't feel like a crazy zombie. Because I've been in that stage. My. My second set of twins did not sleep well for 11 months and I woke up 15 times a night, and I still had a whole lot going on in my life. And it was just. It was rough. It was rough.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Yeah. It doesn't stop. And in fact, I was publishing my first book right then, so it definitely wasn't stopping. It was. It was ramping up. Number two is establish rhythms in your home. So when you feel like you've got nothing that you know is coming or all the things are coming, but you don't know in what order when they'll come, like, you're just kind of like, what Day is it? Who am I? Who are you? Why are you here? Like you don't have any rhythms for your day. I think that makes you feel a little bit crazy and it makes you wonder when you're going to fit everything in as opposed to if you have some things that repetitively happen consistently every single day or pretty close to every single day, you start to feel really grounded. Like we're going to do family Bible reading together and we're going to have more or less this kind of interaction.

[Unknown]

Some like anchor points throughout the day.

[Abby]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

That help. You know, like this child or group of children is going to get this kind of attention, this. And then after you've established those rhythms, I would say intentionality slash flexibility. So as you're intentional but willing to flex, flex throughout the day. So that's why I say rhythms instead of routines or schedules. Because if it's like it is this time, we must be doing this. Then when the toddlers want to sit with you and read, you can't because it's not on your schedule. Right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

But you just missed an opportunity for connection that is totally like something that would have filled their love tank and you would have had this moment. 15 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever. 10 minutes of reading on the couch. So I'll give you an example. This morning we had a slower morning than usual because I was up last night perming my second son's hair. It's this thing teenage boys want their hair to look like.

[Unknown]

Heard of this? I've seen it. Yeah.

[Abby]

I actually have permed both of my oldest boy's hair. Hair in the last week and I'm just cracking up. So we stayed up late. We were watching Pirates of the Caribbean, I was perming his hair and some of my older kids were awake with us. And so I didn't go to bed till middle at night. So we didn't get up and do Bible reading at 7:30, which is one of our rhythms like we normally do. We had. It's kind of overcast. We had a slower day. Well, I am putting some clothes away in my room and my little boys, my four year olds get up and they both want to read books. So I'm thinking we're just going to shift everything an hour and you're going to climb in bed with me and we're going to read books. So they have had other points of interacting with me today. But that was such a great like grounding, grounding point to start the day. It's only okay to do that if you didn't say by 7:30 we have to be doing this or else my whole day is gone.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's, it's funny. We do that as, as somebody who's at home, you set your own schedule, but then it turns into this like, as if you have some boss.

[Abby]

You are your own boss. And that is such, like a, a privilege, but also big responsibility. So in the midst of that flexibility, you're being intentional. Intentional. You're saying this doesn't have to happen right now or there are things that have to happen. I'm going to work around those. Like I'm on this podcast with you. We set a specific time. I think your editor force is going to edit out all the squirrely parts. But there have been some squirrely parts because there's, there's kids like, oh, mama, I need to go potty. Oh, this, oh that. Can I ask you this question? Totally fine. But they also know like this, this is an off limits time to have me all to themselves. And then when I'm off of this, I'll go right, right back to reading aloud to them. We're going to do some laundry together. We're going to get dinner ready. You know, it's just, you have to be paying attention and willing to invest. Like for example, I told my son about the perming. He was saying, when could you do this? And I literally went through the whole week and I was like, I can't hear, I can't hear. I could hear. He's like, he's like, I couldn't there because he's a teenager and he has a life too. I couldn't there. I'm at home school, you know, and so I was like, I, I will be home with all of the children. My husband and my older son are out of town right now. So I'm like, I will be home with all of the children at 8 o' clock. We're going to work on getting them to bed by 8:30, which, that's another thing that I tell people is do. No, I don't say do not have. We personally do not have long drawn out bedtime routines. We have been together all day. We've done a ton of stuff together. And by that point I find, find it onerous to go from child to child to child and kind of repeat some of the touch points that I've done. So we do potty, brush your teeth, get some water. Hugs and kisses. We might do a little bit of more reading because we've already done some reading throughout the day. We might Do a little bit more reading with whoever wants to gather around and then they go to bed. So I said everybody needs to be in bed between 8:30 and 8:45. I need you home by 8:45 at the absolute latest. And we're going to start priming. Yeah. And sometimes that goes well, sometimes it doesn't. In this case we're, we did. We started around nine and it took me forever. And I went to bed at like 1140, 45 because I'm by no means a professional hair person, although it turned out really cute, looks really good. So I was intentional. But also, and I had to plan throughout the day. But also we had to be flexible because each one of us couldn't do it at certain times. And it worked out, you know, and my other kids liked that they got to stay up and watch a movie with us. So that was. Even though we weren't talking to each other, they, they felt included. They felt part of the group. That's also connection.

[Unknown]

Yeah. One of the questions I'm sure you get a ton and I get a ton is when do you have me time? You know, and I think this, this should come with the caveat and I'm sure you'll give it of like, do you have to have me time? You know, I could built in times where you're enjoying what you're doing, that's like a whole different thing. Versus do you have a time where you are all alone?

[Abby]

So I would say for the most part I don't have a guaranteed time unless it is. And this has changed through the years because I used to teach fitness. I'm, I'm a fitness instructor, have been for 18 years and have taught various times of day, just whatever worked for our family schedule at the time. So it's been all over the place for a long time. I taught at 5:45am Even when I had nurses babies, I would like get up, nurse them sometimes both of them, as fast as possible, run, teach this class. I was insane. I really am. Like, what was I doing? What was wrong with you? What was I doing? But I did it for a while and I'm so glad I don't do it anymore. Although at the time it made sense because I had the rest of the day at home and my workout was done and I'm just a little chiller about that now. But my schedule has changed a bunch of times. But right now I teach an 8:50 Monday morning class. So my husband's actually doing Bible reading with our kids when I'm Leaving like I'm there for part of it and then I leave. And so my drive to and from the gym is my.

[Unknown]

That's your me time.

[Abby]

Guaranteed a low time of the week.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

And I often spend it voice memoing a friend or listening to my Bible reading if I haven't gotten to it yet or listening to a book. And I don't have office hours, so I don't have guaranteed like Wednesday from 2 to 4. I work. I just work whenever you can. I can work. Yeah. So there's problems. I will get other little pockets. I might run to the grocery store because that's super exciting for moms if I need to. Yeah. I mean usually somebody jumps in the car with me if I'm completely honest.

[Unknown]

Like.

[Abby]

Like it usually ends up being a moment of connection with one or two of my kids that want to come with me and that's totally fine. And there might be another time I'm driving in the car. But as far as like my going away from my house and having guaranteed time alone. No.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby]

And. And that's okay. Well, I have.

[Unknown]

My younger sister, she was talking about how she kind of got a little bit caught up in the like wake up early before your child. So that way you have time all alone. And she realized after doing it for a couple weeks that she was getting stressed about her me time. Like she thought I have to have this time alone where I'm in my Bible and it has to before she wakes up. And then she wakes up and then it ruins it. She's like, this is dumb. Like I was fine before and now all of a sudden it's like a requirement that I have to have me time. And it's stressing me out.

[Abby]

Right. So. And then there's going to be somebody listening to you. Because we know how this works. That's like. But I do that and it's really life giving and it doesn't stre me out.

[Unknown]

Wonderful.

[Abby]

That's awesome. I love that that works for you. But I love that we have so much freedom in Christ.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

To not say if you are not up at 5am for two hours before your children, which I have done that before, then. Then you're not doing it right. Or if you don't do this at this time of day, every single day. Guaranteed. You know, cleaning schedules. My house is not perfectly clean ever. Unless there's like a big old party happening at it or something. And even then you probably find something. Something. Right. Exactly. There's always sections of it. But we also are Very consistent to do the basics a whole lot. So I know that the girls or I are going to clean downstairs bathrooms on Mondays or Tuesdays. Not Tuesdays, because that's homeschool co op day. But Mondays is the day for that. But I don't have a perfect cleaning schedule for the rest of the week. It's more like rhythms. It's like this needs to happen. Now, I will say, because people always ask me about chores, that one thing I was consistently doing on Mondays, three things I was consistently doing on Mondays as much as I was able. And then I was like, oh, my word, I have capable children who want to be paid for things that they do. Why am I doing all this? Cleaning out my fridge, reorganizing my pantry, like, like, you know, pulling all the onion skins out and the smushy bananas and the whatever else needed to be gone through and cleaning out my car. So my three girls, those are their specific paid jobs once a week each Monday. And it's so nice to have that reset. And if you're a young mom listening, that's like my 3 year old can do none of those things. Things. Well, then you do the best you can with what you have until she can. Or, or you, you know, maybe you just really, really thrive on having a. On Monday at this time, we do this. On Tuesday at this time, we do this. And that's like your jam and it's what keeps you sane. Go for it. I think you've said that you don't meal plan a ton. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Not in the, the regular way. I think I do kind of what you do. It seems like, like, like, like it seems like you, you, you kind of get these big ha. At maybe Costco. You, you get what you know that you always will use and then you throw together stuff from what you see. Like in a nutshell.

[Abby]

Yes. Yes. So I have a friend that's like, I could not do that because I would be so stressed. And I'm like, I'm so glad you know that.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby]

Like, I'm so glad that you have recognized that that's the solution for you. Because that's the other thing is I have people in my DMs and on my what do you want to know? Wednesday, constantly being like, how do I do what you do? And I'm like, you don't have to, like, there's no requirement for this. If what the way I do it works for you. And it just so happens that we are like, our stars are aligned and we're the Same personality. Get it? But so my friend's like, I have to, I have to because my husband needs to know what's going on. My kids need to know what's going on.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Abby]

I'm like, so that's why you do it. Whereas I, the other day, day, I'm like you. I have, I have an, an array of meals I could create from the things in my house at all times. And they, none of them take very long or very complicated. And I want them to have a certain nutritional value, more or less, you know. And so the other day I had a package of chicken, which I also have older kids that love to cook. So sometimes I find that I don't have as many ingredients as I thought I did because they've been making themselves stuff. And so I, I just had one like three and a half pound package of chicken, which is usually not enough chicken for our entire family, obviously. And so I'm staring at this chicken and my daughter's cleaning out the fridge and I'm like, jar of pesto. Oh, I got this. We have tomatoes, we have pesto, we have parmesan cheese. I have noodles from Costco. I am going to air fry this chicken and we're going to put this together and it's going to be amazing. And I have bread, you know, and salad. And it was there, there's a meal and my kids loved it and it was nutritious and filling and, and it didn't stress me out to make. And I think it took me like 40 minutes.

[Unknown]

Yeah, for me, like, it would be an extra step to like find a recipe, put it on a thing and then make from it as opposed to just doing what you just did there and like pull the things out and make it. So it is, it's, it's very. And I tell people this all the time. Like, and I know, we know, but like everything is so personality dependent. Like we cannot just, like we can't compare. Like we were saying earlier, oh, well, you have this or this. Well, you also have this personality. Just things aren't not equal. We can learn from each other, we can be encouraged by each other, but it's not all going to look the exact same.

[Abby]

Right. And, and, and it's like you have to find that balance of recognizing your strengths and weaknesses and what your personality plays best to without using it as an excuse.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Abby]

And a reason.

[Unknown]

That's why I kept saying about personality test thing. Like, I am this, this is who I am. I guess this is my lot in life. Like you can't do that either either, right?

[Abby]

Yeah, 100% yes.

[Unknown]

Well I have like a million more questions for you that the listeners submitted and it's already been our hour so I'm going to let you back to your children and your read alouds and your laundry, tell the listeners where they can best find you and find your book that is currently for pre order and we'll leave it all linked below as well.

[Abby]

Great. So I'm most active social media wise on on Instagram @m is for mama. You can find any of my books anywhere that books are sold, but I think that came out right. I podcast over at Ms. For Mama on any platform that you might want to search, including YouTube even though it's small and Spotify and all of those. And yeah, you can find me [e-mail] where I blogged long form for years and have a bunch of backlogged article like the sleeping article and um, some resources like my Penny Reward System ebook which is just a really practical way of helping your kids develop good habits and the Gentleness Challenge which is a 30 day scriptural reset from Mom Rage.

[Unknown]

Awesome. That's a lot of great resources. We will leave them linked down in the description box below. Well, thank you so much Abby again for your your wisdom, your encouragement. We always love to hear from you here.

[Abby]

I always love getting to chat with you. Lisa. Thanks for for having me.

[Unknown]

As always, thank you so much for listening. Make sure to check out the links and resources in the description box below and continue to learn from Abby on her social channels and website and books and I will see you in the next episode of the Simple Farmhouse Life Podcast. Thanks as always for listening to the Simple Farmhouse Life Podcast. My husband Luke and I and our eight kids work together side by side on our little homestead and use our blog, podcast and YouTube channel to reach other homemakers, home cooks and homesteaders with practical recipes and daily family life. For everyday sourdough recipes, make sure to check out our blog, farmassomboon.com and to dig deeper, we do also offer a course called Simple Sourdough over at Bit Ly Farmhouses. That's all one word. Bit Ly Farmhouses. If you're looking looking to learn how we earn an income online, check out my YouTube course at bit ly farmhouseyoutubecourse. All one word.