← Simple Farmhouse Life
Simple Farmhouse Life
293. Cooking from Scratch for Modern Life: Kitchen Rhythms, Real Ingredients & Homestead Tips | Melissa K. Norris
01:00:49
Learn the simple habits, ingredient swaps, and freezer tips that make from-scratch cooking doable—and discover just how powerful it can be for your family’s health
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- [00:00]
Melissa K. Norris
Once you know what it feels like to be in a better state, health wise, it's really hard to go back. You're just not willing. And as more and more people get to experience that, because I feel like for a lot of Americans, because our food system has been so junky for so long, I don't think people even realize that it's not normal to feel that way. And so I think once they get to experience the difference they're like, oh goodness. And so I think it's just going to continue to grow.
- [00:24]
Lisa
My name is Lisa, mother of eight and creator of the blog and YouTube channel Farmhouse on Boom. On this podcast I like to talk about simplifying your life so you can live out your priorities. I help you learn how to cook from scratch and decorate on a budget through this podcast and my courses Simple Sourdough and the Simple Sewing Series. I also help people reach their goals from home through my business course YouTube Success Academy. I will leave links to these resources in the show notes in description box below. Now let's get into the show. Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. Here, in keeping with the theme of 2025, we are having back on a guest that has been on before. If you hang around all things Handmade Homemade in the homesteading community, you probably have heard of Melissa K. Norris. She has many books out on those subjects of making things from scratch, canning, preserving. She talks about gardening over on her YouTube channel on her website and she just is an encouraging voice in the space. She also is is hosting the Modern Homesteading Conference which is at the end of this month in Idaho. I will be there speaking. So if you are anywhere in that nearby vicinity make sure to head over or just put into Google. We'll also leave it down in the show notes below. But Modern Homesteading Conference, it's the end of this month and I will look forward to seeing you there. Without further ado, let's jump in and just chat about these things with Melissa Norris. Get her perspective on on homemade and handmade things. Melissa, welcome back on the show. We're super excited to have you back on and talk about all things handmade, homemade. All of those skills that it seems like people are really starting to gravitate toward or they have been for a while and I thought that this would all dwindle down like as soon as Covid was over people would go back to not really caring about old fashioned skills. But that has not been the case. So for those who don't know, you give an introduction, tell us about Your new book and then why you think people are interested in these old fashioned skills and traditions these days.
- [02:30]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. Well, thanks for having me back, Lisa. I always look forward to getting to chat with you. And you're right, I think that we are still seeing an upward trend, which is really exciting, of folks still coming back to wanting to have things from scratch. I think it's on. I think there's multiple facets to it. And yes, for those whom I've not had the pleasure of getting to meet before, I'm so happy you're listening to this episode. And my name is K. Norris. I'm a fifth generation homesteader, which kind of sounds funny because I come from a long line of people who have just cooked from scratch because they didn't have the means otherwise, have provided their own food. And so I didn't really even know the term homesteading quite honestly until about 15 years ago in the modern context. Right. And I'm like, oh, like goodness. Well, we've been doing a lot of that for a really long time. And so it was really awesome though to find a group of folks in today's time that that kind of could be a term that you could gravitate towards and be like, oh, other people who are doing that have. We have a lot in common and are interested in these same things. So I've been sharing since like 2011 homesteading on my website and my podcast since like 2014. So it's really fun being able to see the online part from that, you know, so now going on, oh gosh, if I can do math in my head, about 14 years, a long time to see the, the breadth and how many more people are continuing to gravitate towards this way of life. To your point, and Covid was a really interesting, like it was this huge spike, but it was already growing before that.
- [04:08]
Lisa
Oh yeah.
- [04:09]
Melissa K. Norris
You know, and so, but it just, I feel like it really accelerated things. And to your point, I kind of thought the same thing. I'm like, once life quote unquote, goes back to normal for a lot of people who will stick with this. And it's been really fun to see that a lot of people have seen the value in it. And I think not just see the value in it, but they've experienced the value in it. And so they're holding onto those things. And as, just as human beings, when we feel things impact us in a positive way, we like to share about that. You know, we get excited about it and we want other people to have that experience as well. And so I think what we're seeing in a lot of ways is you had Covid and then you had a lot of people that, because of that, were able to experience, and it pushed them towards doing some of the things that were already on their mind to do. And then they could share with other people. Like, oh, my goodness, like, this has actually been so great for us or for our family. And so they've stuck with it and that then it's grown because they're sharing with other people, and it's like, oh, well, maybe. Maybe I will try that if you got those results. Or it was like that for you. Maybe I'll give it a go. So I think there's a lot of things that are contributing to people still wanting to do a lot of these lifestyle things. Yeah.
- [05:26]
Lisa
And what I think is cool is it doesn't have to be all in for you to really experience the benefits of it. Like, right now, currently my family is living in town because we're building a house on a farm. And so currently, you know, I can't do milking a dairy cow. We don't have tons of acreage to put in this huge garden. Not that you need tons of acreage for that, but we don't have space at all for a garden, really, except a very small one. But still sourcing food from local farms, still baking bread, still fermenting vegetables. There's all these things that, you know, you don't have to be all in. Like, we raise all of our food completely independently on our farm or nothing. And I think people have started to realize that as well.
- [06:08]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. Oh, I'm with you. I mean, and really, when you think about it, the kitchen is like the great equalizer because everybody has to eat.
- [06:13]
Lisa
Yep. If you have a kitchen and everybody, even.
- [06:16]
Melissa K. Norris
Even if you're in a little small apartment, I have to say, even when I've been traveling, usually the hotel room will have some type of. Even a tiny kitchen. Now, obviously, some more than others, but a lot of them, even you can, you know, get. And they'll have like. Even if it's just like, maybe a little cooktop or that type of thing. So really, almost no matter where you are, you have some type of kitchen access, and you can start implementing things there and seeing, like, really big results from just your cooking habits and changing those.
- [06:43]
Lisa
Yeah, that's where 99% of it happens. Like, obviously outside is where you find the sourcing. So if you're in town, you can have a dairy cow partnering with a local farm. If you have the ability to have a dairy cow, you know, that's obviously bringing tons of quality dairy into your home that you can process. But most of it just happens right in your kitchen, no matter where you live. I mean, I was doing this stuff when we lived in town before we moved to our homestead. Now in our in between house in town, it honestly doesn't even feel that much different. I just can't go out back and gather a bunch of eggs. But like, other than that, it's kind of the exact same thing. And learning those skills. I think you were talking about how Covid was kind of the catalyst for people who were already thinking about it. I think we are forced to make some things from home because one, for a while there couldn't really get out and two, the shelves were bare. And so we were forced to learn things that were like, oh, that wasn't actually that hard. Like I, I built this up in my head. I thought this was going to be something really complicated. And now I have a little bit more confidence and I can try other things and it's just a whole snowball effect.
- [07:47]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, I agree. And I have to say, I don't know about you, but I. So I grew up and my mom cooked from scratch a lot. And now looking back at the time, I didn't know it's because we didn't have money to buy a lot of, a lot of things. But it was just, that's, you know, that's just how our, what our food system was like. And that's what my mom did. But what's been really interesting is then as an adult, as a working mom, working outside the home for 18 years as a pharmacy tech and having, you know, two kids and then a full time homestead. What's been so funny is there's certain things like for example, condensed cream of soups. Even though my mom cooked a ton from scratch, there was some things like that that she bought. So she would make casseroles and it would be, you know, a can of condensed cream, usually cream of chicken soup, most like often because she wasn't a big, huge fan of mushrooms. But the funny thing is, is I remember very distinctly when I was going through my health journey and that was really my like catalyst and I was like, okay, I cannot use these cans of condensed cream of soup anymore. Because they had at that time, time, I'm assuming they still do. There was, you know, genetically modified ingredients were in there. And just a lot of the things that were on the list of ingredients that I was taking out of my diet for health reasons. And so I'm like, okay, well, I still want to make some of my recipes, but I had to revamp them. And I remember the first time I made a homemade condensed cream of soup replacement, which is basically just a basic roux and white sauce. It took me four minutes from start to finish.
- [09:16]
Lisa
You're like, wait.
- [09:17]
Melissa K. Norris
I was astounded.
- [09:18]
Lisa
I'm like, why did we open a key and scrape it out? I know.
- [09:23]
Melissa K. Norris
I was like, why on earth is this something that we've been conditioned to buy? But, I mean, I was one of them. Like, I had no idea how easy and how fast it was. And honestly, it tasted like, way better because I was using real bone broth and, like real butter and so, like, flavor and everything was there and there was actual nutrition. But it was like. Like, what a lie. Like, it's. It's not even a hard thing to do. It doesn't take a lot of time. And so I'm like, okay, how many other things have we been conditioned to think are so hard? Yeah. Yeah.
- [09:49]
Lisa
Like, I'm really gonna save myself all this time if I do it this way. Yeah, there. There are so many things like that in the kitchen. Just over the years, building up confidence and realizing, like, oh, why would I even leave my. Like, if you're out of something and you're like, well, we could run to the store or we could just make this. It's literally easier just to stay here and make this, you know, enter whatever thing it is. There are so many things like that. And then you said, also the economic side of it, if you were to buy those quality foods that you want in your home and not make them, like, think about, like, one of the ones that we splurge on is granola. The cost to make granola and the cost to buy a high quality granola that has all the ingredients in it that you want. It just does not make sense economically at all. And then also, if you were to find, like, a local baker who will bake your sourdough bread, the comparison of that, if you. If you want those things in your home, it's going to take you making them unless you have the budget to buy them. And a lot of times it's harder to even find those sources. And the simplicity of the ingredients, it just makes more sense.
- [10:55]
Melissa K. Norris
Agreed. Well, I. Especially with sourdough, like, it's actually really, really hard, even a bake bakery, to find a true long ferment sourdough. A lot of times they'll use sourdough starter, but they're going to be using commercial yeast with it. I mean, there's some out there, but it is, that actually is a really hard one to source, I think.
- [11:13]
Lisa
Yeah, well, I'm sure it is. I don't even know where I could get one local to me. Yes. If I wanted to. Yeah. But I think a lot of places, a lot of micro bakeries have sprung up and so there's people in their home making authentic sourdough. But to be, you know, compensated fairly for their time, it's pricey because, you know, like them taking that out of their schedule to bake these large amounts, whereas somebody in their own home, their own family, just making the bread that you need. It fits in pretty seamlessly with your schedule once you get the hang of it. And that's what, that's what I have found over the years. But for someone who's brand new to from scratch cooking, where would you recommend that they start? Because I know you've been at this for decades now and you grew up like this, so maybe people might say, well, it's kind of simple for you because you know what you're doing.
- [12:01]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. Well, it's really funny though, because my mom was a stay at home mom and so she, she, you know, she was at home and so she could make everything for us. You know, she had, you know, all, I would say all day. I mean, yes, she was also cleaning. I mean there's a lot to being a stay at home mom. I don't want to minimize that.
- [12:18]
Lisa
No, but you can like revisit like making food is what I spend a lot of my time doing because I am home, you know, I'm here to do that.
- [12:25]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. And so even though I had grown up with a mom who cooked a lot from scratch, you know, at 18, I had a full time job. I was starting in pharmacy. And so I would get home at about 7 o' clock at night. And when you get home at 7 o' clock at night, if you want to go to bed at a decent time, like it's almost like you need dinner either in the slow cooker, like ready or it has to be something that's super fast. And so I found myself over the years relying more and more on those convenience type things because time, time was something that I didn't have at home. And and then I had a really big health issue issue where I ended up having my esophagus and upper stomach biopsied for cancer. When my youngest, my daughter was just a couple years Old. And so with the results of that, I had cellular change, but I didn't have cancer, but I had significant erosion and cellular change on those areas. And so part of the process was getting off of the medications I was on because they weren't doing anything, hence I was in that position. And then figuring out by the food that I was eating to control the stomach acid that was creating the ulcers and all of this erosion. And so I really had to take a hard. What I was actually cooking with. And I'm like, I had really fallen into a lot of those convenience things, you know, grabbing a packet of, seasoning this, canned, you know, condense this and that, and they're, they. I don't know if they make them anymore, it's been so long. But they even used to make like you basically were buying a casserole in a box and they just like combined like three different cans and packets of things and then you just assembled and cooked them. So I was, I was quote, unquote cooking, but it was more assembling things and not really being paying any attention to the ingredients and them at that time. And so when I started and then started looking at the ingredients and then basically threw out probably over half my pantry, quite honestly. And for me, it was cheaper than paying off the medical bills that I was currently paying. I know groceries can get expensive and sometimes people can't throw out their entire pantry and then restock it with whole better ingredients. But that was what I did at that time. And so I had to figure out ways to do all of that in the margins of not being home. And so I share that because I do understand what it's like to have to figure that out, especially when you're not home and you're, you know, you're super busy to be able to cook from scratch. And so a lot of what I've done has just been from having to figure figure that out myself. So in the very beginning, what I did is I looked at the foods that we were eating on a very regular basis because that has the biggest impact on your budget, your health, like all the things. And so I'm like, okay, is there a store bought counterpart to this that is actually a better version, like reading ingredient labels and going through those things. And at that time, you know, we're going back like 14 years now, bread, for that example, to find a loaf of bread that didn't have any of the stuff that I didn't want in it. At that time, it was like $6 a loaf.
- [15:21]
Lisa
Yeah, and it was frozen. And the. Frozen.
- [15:23]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, I mean, it was just like, oh my goodness, like, you know, into today's prices. That's probably like closer to like $12 for a loaf of bread, you know, with inflation.
- [15:31]
Lisa
Yeah.
- [15:32]
Melissa K. Norris
And so looking at our budget and everything and like, okay, I've got to figure out how, how to make our own bread. This isn't an option that I can buy.
- [15:39]
Lisa
Right.
- [15:39]
Melissa K. Norris
And so a lot of it was out of necessity, was figuring out how to, how to make it ourselves. But I, I say that because I looked at the items that we were eating on a really consistent basis that were our family staples. And for a lot of families, that ends up. But not always. And so I'm like, okay, is there a version of this that I can afford at the store that actually has the ingredients in it that I'm okay with us consuming or not? And for most of the things it was, I couldn't find it or we couldn't afford it. So then I sat out and I'm like, I've got to figure out a way to make this at home and fit it into our schedule. So I started with those things that we were eating the most of. And for me personally, that were like my trigger foods that if I ate them, I got a lot of heartburn and a lot of that activated my gerd. And so I started there. And then once those kind of foundation pieces of our meals, I'd figured out ways to make them at home and better and it was just, it became part of our routine. Then I started layering kind of that next layer. So like what's the things that maybe we eat, say two or three times a week, not even, not daily, and would start adding those in. So it just kind of became this layered until pretty soon we're making most of the things from home. You know, there's still a few things that I'll, you know, that I buy from the store. I don't make everything from scratch for clarity wise, but the majority of our products we do. So that's why I tell everybody to start. Look at the things that you're eating that don't have the ingredients in them that you necessarily want and that you're eating on a really regular basis and then figure out a better version. And that might be something that you're buying from the store. In most cases, it's probably going to be something that you're going to learn how to make at home from scratch.
- [17:12]
Lisa
Yeah, that makes sense. To start with the thing that's going to have the biggest impact. Like, what are you eating the most of? You know, for a lot of families, I think that is bread. And so that's a simple place to start. What were some of the ingredients that you were trying to avoid? If you recall back, like what were some of the main big things that everything had that you were just trying to start getting rid of?
- [17:29]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, honestly, high fructose corn syrup was one of them. A lot of your fully hydrogenated, like a lot of your oils. So for me it was any of the oils that were like, were soy. Now we're with. There's a lot of talk about seed oils. I think people look at oils and fats a lot more now than they did back then. So back then I didn't really.
- [17:47]
Lisa
It's really hard.
- [17:48]
Melissa K. Norris
It is hard. So for that, for me back then it was like, okay, I don't want anything with canola oil in it. That's a really big GMO crop in most cases. I didn't want things to soy in it. I didn't want high fructose corn syrup. Again, that was a large GMO crop. And high fructose corn syrup can have different implications on health. And then food dice, like those were kind of my, my big four and, and then soy. And so those were kind of my big four. And then it was also when I was looking at ingredient labels, those were kind of my big, like big ones that my was really trying to stay away from. And then if it was ingredients that I didn't know what they were, you know, like when you're reading an ingredient label and if I couldn't pronounce it or I didn't actually know what it was until I could go and research what that ingredient was. I just was like, okay, this isn't one that we're, that we're going to bring in until I know more about the ingredients that I can read, you know, down this label. So I just did a ton of that and really was like, you know, I cooked with vegetable oil and Crisco shortening and I'm like, oh. And so it was replacing, you know, real butter. I never did margarine, thankfully. I, I never liked margarine and my mom didn't like margarine. So butter was a splurge. We had butter. So it was using coconut oil instead of Crisco because it's very similar in baking. You know, it's already, you know, texture wise or lard. Lard. And then we started raising our own pigs. So then I had my own lard and now you can find lard a little bit more readily available even in regular grocery stores. If you kind of go to like the natural food section. Yeah. And then it was using like instead of vegetable oil, either melted butter, melted coconut oil, or getting things like avocado oil. Especially like a cold pressed good avocado oil and olive oil. Though in baking, I don't really like the flavor of olive oil and cakes. It tends to come through too much for me. So that's where I'll do like melted butter or those types of things. But so a lot of it was just kind of replacing some of those basic pantry oils and fats with better versions of like. That's an actual pretty easy swap. If that's something that you haven't done yet.
- [19:42]
Lisa
That is such an easy swap. That's one of those things where like you could both like be doing the same amount of effort you and you know, prior you or somebody else and just the quality of the ingredients that you put in it. Like we sometimes I think we take like everything we make at home is better. But it matter matters what you put in it. Like you can make very unhealthy food from scratch at home if you don't know the right ingredients to put in it. Not that it's complicated, but there are some things to stay away from and to be aware of that. I think it takes a little time to kind of understand what that is. And like you said oils like the fat that goes in the food, big deal. What are some other big ones that you feel like, like the sugars. So not using high fructose corn syrup which people aren't using at home and cooking.
- [20:26]
Melissa K. Norris
Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, that, that's another interesting one. So for sugars and sweeteners was one is I really tried to get rid of anything that was. I tried to back it up a processing level. So for example, most people, you know, just buy the white, white table sugar from the store. So instead I would look for the like raw organic sugar. So it still was like one on one replacement for baking. You didn't have a big, you know, curve there. But I'm like, okay, at least it's not quite as processed or GMO or.
- [21:00]
Lisa
GMO sugar can be. Gmo.
- [21:01]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, yeah. And I prefer the flavor it has a little bit. It's not as strong as like if you're using light brown sugar, dark brown sugar where you get, you know that a little bit different moisture content in your baked goods, but also kind of a little bit more Caramelization, a little bit different flavor depth. I prefer the flavor of a raw organic sugar, personally versus Dwight. I feel like it actually adds a little bit of flavor depth to it. And that's a really easy, easy swap. It's not going to affect any of your baking times. You're not gonna have to really redo your recipes, play with hydration levels. So that one's super easy. And then it was just, you know, honey and real maple syrup. And so incorporating, you know, those into different foods, especially raw honey and things that, like in yogurt. So making homemade yogurt at home, and if we wanted it to be sweetened instead of a lot of your store bought yogurts have a lot of, a lot of added sugar and usually. And a lot of times maybe not the best sugar. So using like raw honey. So at least we were getting some health benefits with the raw honey, you know, with homemade yogurt, those types of things. So looking at your sweeteners. And then next actually was salt. Salt is a big one. I went down that rabbit hole and was like, oh my goodness. So we have not used regular like iodized white table Salt for about 15 years now.
- [22:12]
Lisa
And when you cook from scratch, you use a lot of salt. Like we go through. It's just crazy because I feel like when we were, I was a kid, you had a little thing of salt that just had up in the pantry for years. Maybe it didn't, maybe it was getting swapped out more than I thought it was, but I feel like it was just like a thing that was up there, you know. And now we get a bag. I don't know what the size is, but maybe it's a pound bag of salt like every month, every other month. Like it's just constant that you're running out of salt.
- [22:36]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. So I, I found Redmond's real salt and I love that. I love their salt because I can use it for fermenting, I can use it for canning. I use it for everything. Baking, cooking, making homemade electrolyte stuff. And so I actually get it in 25 pound bags. And then I just have the little salt in the house. Yeah. But what I love is I don't have to stock different salts now. Like, I don't have to have a fermenting salt, I don't have to have a canning salt. It. It fits all of the, the bills and makes a big difference. Like you're getting mineral content in there. It's not been processed and evaporated like a lot of other salts. Are where they're stripping out the minerals to then sell them as a supplement. You're getting it all, all in your, your salt. So. And it's such a basic thing. It's, it's such an easy swap. But I had no idea.
- [23:23]
Lisa
I, I thought, yeah, just one for one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super simple.
- [23:27]
Melissa K. Norris
I didn't even know it existed. Like, I just, I thought white iodized table salt was like the only salt growing up because it's the only salt we ever use.
- [23:34]
Lisa
That's the only salt we really have. Yeah. Like, I think in a lot of ways all of this is so much easier now because the sourcing is not hard. Like, even. And I, I don't. Like, some people are in different states. They're like, no, not here. But I feel like even raw milk, like there's so many, because there's so much awareness and education about it that dairy farms, the demand has popped up. So therefore they've popped up. People realize there's, you know, money to be made or, you know, you can make money from your homestead with it because people are interested. Whereas before people, why would they even start a dairy? Like, there's nobody interested, nobody cares. Like, why are we going to go out of our way to go get milk? Like, that was a fringe when I first got into it. Nobody else did it. And now it's like everybody, you know is like, hey, where'd he get raw milk? Like, it's just such a common thing. And so since there's that demand for it, things like quality salt, quality fats, quality dairy, it's very easy to come by, at least in my state.
- [24:32]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, well, I have to say, even talking about some of your bigger box stores, right, that's your only option. And you're like, okay, I want to do some things now. I got to find maybe some of these other sources, like as local farmers or that type. When I first started, I was using Costco and even now there are so many options, even at Costco of organic options. Or you can get coconut oil there and they have organic sugar in the raw now actually at Costco. So even at the bigger box stores, to your point, as there's more awareness made and more demand, that's where products arise from. I mean, it really is by consumer demand, because if they know people will buy it and there is a market for it. Companies are capitalists. I mean, and they have to be if you can't operate without making a profit. But I've seen that in just the past 15 years, there is so much more available. And I think more and more of it will become available too, as more and more awareness is made. And I think it's kind of like the proof is in the pudding when you switch, or at least for me personally, I was actually able to heal all of my stomach acid and ulcers by just switching these things and cooking from scratch and learning about the quality ingredients. Because, yes, you can use ingredients that you don't realize. I didn't realize they were contributing massively to my health problems. And I had no idea until I made this switch. But I think as more and more people do that and they feel the difference in their bodies, then again that word of mouth thing and the more demand, because once you feel the difference, at least for me, sometimes when I'm traveling, traveling can be harder. I've actually tried to cut back on my travel schedule. Traveling can be harder, but I'll feel the difference. And I'm like, I don't want to feel like this. And so once you know what it feels like to be in a better state, health wise, it's really hard to go back because you're like, no, you're just not willing.
- [26:30]
Lisa
And so I don't have time for this.
- [26:32]
Melissa K. Norris
No. And as more and more people get to experience that, because I feel like for a lot of Americans anyways, I mean, obviously that's where both you and I are at, I think, because our food system has been so junky for so long, I don't think people even realize that it's not normal to feel that way. And so I think once they get to experience the difference, they're like, oh, goodness. And so I think it's just going to continue to grow. I hope it continues to grow.
- [26:57]
Lisa
I mean, people believe now that it matters. Like 15 years ago when I was getting raw milk and there was like one game in town like that you could drive to, it was not something people are like, you know why? Like, it didn't. People didn't have the belief, but now it's very like everybody understands because in some way they've been touched by it, whether it's somebody they know who's like, listen, I tried this. Like, I started making my own bread and we got rid of this and now we're all having, you know, we're not having this symptom anymore or whatever. I think it's just so widespread that we are willing to, for a little inconvenience because it is, it's, it's definitely inconvenient to find a local farm and to have, like a meeting time and you have to drive there, and it's worth it. And once you know that, you will tell people. You go out of your way to do it. More dairy farms will pop up, more micro bakeries. People learn how to make bread from scratch. But I think that, yeah, it's definitely like you said, the proofs in the pudding, and people are talking about it.
- [27:57]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. So it's really fun. And as more and more people get up, like, it's almost easier because now I'm like, oh, hey, I'm going to get raw milk. Do you want me to grab you some? You know, like, you kind of create like your own little. Little pool there as you tell more and more people about it. And then it is actually you have the ability to make it more convenient for everybody when there's more involved.
- [28:19]
Lisa
Well, yeah, it has all gotten more convenient over the years because there's been just so many more places to get it. I agree with you. Like, in friends that are also interested. Whereas before it was like, why would you not just go to the grocery store, you know?
- [28:33]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I still have people in my life that don't. That aren't there yet. Right.
- [28:39]
Lisa
And that's really fine, you know, like.
- [28:42]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. And so if that's. If, you know, if you're listening to this, you're like, I don't have anybody yet.
- [28:46]
Lisa
Like, yes. It's just. It's very much on the rise. Like, it's not as weird as it was. It's kind of like homeschool. Homeschool was so weird 15 years ago, and now it's, you know, and I'm obviously in my own little bubble in some ways. But it's way more common now to care about where your food comes from and homeschool.
- [29:06]
Melissa K. Norris
I agree. Yes.
- [29:07]
Lisa
Yes.
- [29:08]
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Lisa
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- [32:24]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, no, it definitely is for me. I, I'm sharing a variation of this because I've always wanted to be, when I grow up, somebody who meal plans and like has all of their ingredient lists and their shopping list and all of their meals, like the three squares a day plus the snacks like done for like a month or even two weeks. I have come to realize that is not how I roll. And, and that's complet. So for those of you that do that, like, oh, I tip my hat too. And if that is working for you, like, that is awesome and amazing. So what I found for me is kind of hybrid. So I found that I like to have dinners planned out for two to three nights ahead. So I just kind of know what I'm going to be making for there. And I can do that for two to three days. And if you're brand new, figure out what you're having tonight and just the next night. So I found that then I can take those dinner leftovers and then those become our lunches for the most part. So then it's just figuring out breakfast. And so for me is I try to pick one day of the week so that there's a consistency factor. I found the more things we can make habitual, the more we stick to them. So typically for us that's going to be, for me it's going to be a Sunday afternoon. We try to not do a whole lot after church. We try not to have like plans, birthday parties or different things like that and just kind of have Sundays be at home. So on Sunday afternoon that's where I will really prep our breakfast is and quite a few things for the week. So I just kind of take this batch opportunity of a couple hours and I will usually do like a bunch of eggs. So I will do hard boiled eggs because I can turn those into deviled eggs if we want to. You can just eat a hard boiled egg as a snack or for breakfast. I can chop it up and add it to a salad. So if we've got just like a little bit of extra, extra protein and you know, then I can make a salad, add that egg to it, then there's extra protein like with a meat source in there or not like you can just do, or I can do egg salad where I'm just going to use some mayonnaise. And so I found like having just those eggs cooked ahead of time, especially at the time of we're recording this. The chickens have started laying again. We have come out of winter, winter season, and they're going gangbusters. So I've got a lot of eggs going on. So for me, that's just like a super simple thing to batch. And I can kind of just do whatever I need to do with it throughout the week, as long as they're already cooked. Then. Second thing I like to do is kind of pick a breakfast item that I can just do a whole week's worth of. So a lot of times lately, going back to kind of what's in season, we've got the eggs is. I just usually do, like, muffin. I use our muffin tins and I make egg cups. So sometimes I'll put like a piece of lunch meat as a liner in there, depending on what we've got. Or if I've got bacon that I can, you know, crumble up and put in them, like, whatever. O. And because vegetables, a lot of times we'll buy vegetables and then they kind of sit. And maybe you don't use all of them or you've got some that are getting there. So whatever. Like extra veggies that I've got that need to be used up, I'll just chop those up and add them in there. So it kind of changes that way you don't get super bored.
- [35:21]
Lisa
Right.
- [35:21]
Melissa K. Norris
It kind of changes the flavor.
- [35:22]
Lisa
Yeah. Whatever you have.
- [35:23]
Melissa K. Norris
Like, whatever you have. But I just put those together and then I just bake them at 350 degrees for about 25 minutes, and then those are set. And then that can be breakfast, it can be snacks, Sometimes it's even lunch. But I've got that for the weeks. And it doesn't really like. I'll have the eggs going in the instant pot for the hard boiled, and then I'm popping the egg cups in so it's all being done at the same time. And then I'm really only messing. I'm dirtying up the kitchen, like once, which is my goal, pulling things out. So I just kind of have this big kind of a batch day. So I usually do that every Sunday. And then typically while that's going on, then I prep to cook for Sunday night dinner. I like to cook a whole thing of meat, so either a whole chicken, for example, or like a roast with a bone in or a ham or something like that. And so we'll make that and have that for that supper. Just roast chicken as is for that example. And then I'll make some sides. And typically, what I do is I will also, if it's going to be sourdough bread or if it's biscuits or whatever it's going to be, then I will double that dough and then I've got that, that I'm going to bake fresh that we'll have that night and throughout the week. And then depending on what it is, I'll either bake it up and freeze it or if it's like biscuits, I just roll cut them and flash freeze them and then I've got them in the freezer and then I can use them later throughout the week. So then I can do them as like a quick pot pie or a casserole top filling or just a side and you only you don't have to thaw them. I am not great at remembering things to take things out to thaw them ahead of time, honestly. So I love things that I can pull out of the freezer and I just pop them in the oven and it just takes about 2 minutes extra bake time. Usually with like for biscuits, for example. Same thing with cookie dough. Like it's just a couple extra minutes.
- [37:05]
Lisa
Yes. I didn't actually think about that, but that makes sense. Yeah. Anything. That's where I get hung up on the freezer is I can't remember to thaw things. So it doesn't help because it's like, oh, I have something quick and easy. Except for that's for tomorrow. Not that that's a problem because I, I can do that. Like, okay. And I'll just put it in the fridge. I'll be like, tomorrow we'll have that. That's fine. We're always needing to cook. But if I need something right now, anything that's something you don't have to thaw is. That's, that's actually like a complete game changer. So I like the idea. I haven't done that with biscuits. Yeah, that's a really good idea.
- [37:38]
Melissa K. Norris
It works really good with biscuits. It also works really good with pie crust. So usually what I'll do with pie crust. Now, I know you like to do a lot of sourdough skillets, but a lot of times I'll just make up extra pie crust and then I roll the bottom crust out, put it in the pie plate that I'm gonna cook, bake it in later in the oven.
- [37:53]
Lisa
Oh, you're rolling it before throwing it in the freezer.
- [37:57]
Melissa K. Norris
And then I flash freeze it and then as soon as it's frozen solid, just pop it out, put it in a, you know, Sealed up container. I, I have no problem using Ziploc gallon bags on frozen food in the freezer. I don't. They work really well. Slide it in there. And then when you want to make a pot pie, or even if you want to make a pie, whatever you want to do with it, or a quiche, then all I have to do is pull out that crust, put it back in the same pie plate from frozen, and then you just increase your bake time by maybe a couple minutes, if that.
- [38:25]
Lisa
That's a good idea. How do they do they stack well without breaking?
- [38:30]
Melissa K. Norris
Like yeah, you can nest them. Like yeah, you can definitely nest them. Obviously you just want to make sure that when you've put them in the freezer shelf that you're not setting then anything else on top of it. Right. Like so making sure. Like especially if you have kids that get in freezer and rearrange things.
- [38:44]
Lisa
Yes, yes. But I could see doing that if I did like a big day putting them out in the outside freezer where kids don't get in and out.
- [38:52]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah.
- [38:52]
Lisa
And like having a designated spot. I think the more freezers and fridges that a homesteader or a from scratch cook, let's put it that way, collects probably the better. I was talking to Jamerrill Stewart on the podcast and she was like, oh, I have my fridge from this place and this place. Like I just collect them and keep them all. Because you know that that is going to be that infrastructure that helps you to have these big efficient days where you can really save your future self from being stressed and having to not know what you're gonna make.
- [39:22]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, it is really helpful. And I say also, like, I really do rely on a lot on our food preservation. And so we do have, I have two freezers. But that's because when we were butchering, we raise our own meat and butcher it. So I'm doing like 25 whole chickens at a time.
- [39:36]
Lisa
Right.
- [39:37]
Melissa K. Norris
And then when we're doing, you know, your, your cow, we're keeping about a half to a quarter cow. Well, you need a deep freezer volume wise for those.
- [39:44]
Lisa
Yes.
- [39:45]
Melissa K. Norris
But a lot of the stuff I am actually preserving a different manner. So especially with pressure canning. So a lot of, you know, our vegetables or freeze drying. We do have a freeze dryer. I know not as many people have access to freeze dryers. They are an expensive piece of home food preservation equipment. But dehydrating, you can get dehydrators that are very economical. Even really a pressure canner will pay for itself in one Season if you're using it. So I'll take a lot of different, like our cuts of meat. Like, I'm not ever gonna can a rib steak because I want that bad boy grilled.
- [40:14]
Lisa
Oh, yeah. But for the, you know, the cuts.
- [40:16]
Melissa K. Norris
Of meat that aren't, you know, don't matter so much. Like I do our own home meat, home canned chicken. You know, I'll just take out the chicken and can that. So that I do have things that I don't have to thaw that are shelf stable and don't require the freezer. And so that allows me to do the things in the freezer that you can't really do any other form of home food preservation with. Like, for example, like biscuits and pie crust. Right. You know, those types of things. So I try to use kind of both of those to my advantage. But yes, having two freezers is really helpful. And I know a lot of people are like, oh, the cost to rent two freezers. Oh, my goodness. But the cost of gas and travel and time and then your impulse buying every time you run to the store. And I mean, not even counting your health implications, it is way cheaper for me to run two deep freezers than to go without having that second freezer, to be honest.
- [41:06]
Lisa
That makes sense. Yeah, that is something to consider. I hadn't thought about. We have one freezer out in the garage, then we have our regular fridge freezer in the inside of our house. But like you, we get bulk meat. So we just had our half a cow. We do half a cow twice a year. And so we do usually April and October. And if that's. Yeah, I think that's right. And so we just got our new one, and I wouldn't be able to do that without that. And it's a huge staple because all of our meals center around. That's where I kind of start the meal. So for me, it makes a lot of sense to. To do that. And I could fit in some pies stacked up. What are some other things that you make ahead and freeze, like on one of these batch type of days? I really like the pie and biscuits, which I've never done that, but I like that you could pop it out and use it.
- [41:54]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, I do too. Another one is. Is cookies. Honestly, cookie dough, especially, like, chocolate chip cookie dough. I don't know. I think every family probably has, like, their favorite cookie recipes. Well, chocolate chip is like, it's ours. Everybody in the family, right?
- [42:06]
Lisa
Everybody. It's ours too.
- [42:06]
Melissa K. Norris
Love it. And so I. I found if I don't have homemade cookies made, then that's where people will end up stopping, not naming any names. It's not me. People in the household will stop and grab store bought cookies and the price of store bought cookies, the ingredients in store bought cookies. I mean like I'm not claiming that homemade, like let's be real, there's sugar in there. Right. But it's at least it has those cleaner ingredients.
- [42:35]
Lisa
Ingredient list? Yes.
- [42:36]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, it's a simple ingredient list. And so, so I will just, I usually make a double batch of homemade chocolate chip cookies and then I'll bake a couple of sheets, you know, like what I think will take us for a week, you know, do it too. And then I take the other half of the dough and I freeze it in a log. Now I know sometimes people will want to portion it out and put it on cookie sheets, like flash freeze it. And I'm like, I don't have time for that. I, I don't want to deal with that. So I will just form it into a log.
- [42:59]
Lisa
Uh huh.
- [43:00]
Melissa K. Norris
And freeze it. And then when I want to bake it, I just pull that log out, put it on the counter as I'm preheating the oven. And by the time the oven's preheated it, it's thawed just enough that I can just take a sharp knife and then I just slice it, you know, into the rounds and then you just throw that on the cookie sheet. Cook it from frozen. Like I said, bake time's usually increased by only about two minutes. And then you have like the, they actually look like bakery cookies cause they're all the exact uniform size. Cause right, that's true. And you sliced them. But it's for me that's a lot faster than portioning each cookie out and then flash freezing it and then re putting it into something. So I, I prefer that way. And then if we don't, if I, you know, don't even want to use the whole log, well it's fine because it hasn't even thought all the way out, I can just rewrap that back up, put it back in the freezer for another day and just like bake one sheet. If we just want like a small batch or something like that. So I really like to do that with a lot of the baked things and then oftentimes I will do, I take all of like about reducing waste. So one of the reasons I like to cook a whole piece of meat with the bone in is because we go a ton of bone broth I use bone broth for gravies. I use bone broth actually as the base for a lot of my condensed soups. And then we'll just add a little bit of milk or a little bit of cream in. It's much more economical to do that if you're purchasing your dairy. And so anyway, so we. I use broth almost every day of the week in cooking or just drinking, consuming. So I like to take the carcass then from the whole chicken and then I'll make brass. But what I do for the freezer part is, is all the odd and ends. So your onion skins, your garlic skins, the top of carrots, you know, those things that you typically are just going to toss and maybe maybe give to the chickens. My chickens aren't going to eat onions, you know, or the compost pile.
- [44:46]
Lisa
Right, if you have that.
- [44:47]
Melissa K. Norris
But if not, like if you're living in town or whatnot, just save all of the peelings and all of those odd and bits. And I just fill a Ziploc bag that I just keep in the freezer and I just add to it like the ends of celery, celery leaves, those types of things. And then when I'm ready to make broth, all I have to do is put the carcass in the slow cooker, the instant pot. So then I have that frozen bag of all the different veggie like odd and end stuff that would normally just be tossed out. So it makes broth making super fast. You just throw the bones, the carcass that you've got. I use the instant pot most of the time. Dump that in there, top it off with my water, add a little bit of salt, maybe a little bit of fresh herbs depending on the time of year. And then I've got bone broth and I can like literally get everything in the pot set to make that, that, I mean like maybe two minutes. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [45:35]
Lisa
I always talk about how like so much of what is hard in the kitchen that we really struggle to get to. It's not really that it's time consuming or hard. It's just like a little tiny bit of planning ahead of time. Like having your big roast thought out or your big chicken thought out. Putting it in the instant pot is not like that. To make like a nice soft fall apart meat. If you start it in the morning, you're gonna have that for dinner. It took you five minutes to make that happen, but you had to think about putting it in the fridge the day before. You had to like Think about putting it in the instant pot in the morning. It's not the time so much. It's just like kind of for me, it's not really. I don't plan necessarily, but I'm always in the momentum, the flow of like, I cook all the time so I get more meat out, we start things, we, we have a dough going. Like, I'm not necessarily thinking on the other end of that, oh, what will I use this for? Like, what will I use these pie crust for? We're gonna use them just like keep cooking, keep making, keep getting things out. But like none of it, especially when you make certain things are very time consuming just so much as like just kind of staying on it. You know what I mean?
- [46:40]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, no, exactly. And that's why I said I, like, if you even could just think about the next day and then add another a couple days on. But if you just even think of the next day, like this is what we're gonna have, then you mentally put those steps in for yourself. If we're going to have this, I have to have this pulled out. You know, those little things. Do I need to put it in? And so it's just kind of getting yourself making that part of your normal routine. And then you can add on and be like, okay, well then let's plan ahead for maybe two days ahead. If there's anything I need to do, you know, and it's kind of the same basis that I use in the kitchen of let's replace these mainstays first and then let's add on. So it's kind of always layering so that you're always getting further down that, that path that you want to be on without being that all or nothing. Because most people, if you try to, if you think in that mentality that it has to be all or nothing and all of us fall into it at one time or another, then you end up usually doing nothing or you revert back to nothing because you end up failing at the all because it's not your routine yet. And we need things in this day and age especially, we need the things that are more of like habitual in nature. But it takes a while to create those.
- [47:50]
Lisa
Yeah, yeah, I think it takes a little bit to get things started. But once there's that momentum going, it's like, oh, like when you think of an, a quota, like an easy dinner that we all would just like, like.
- [48:00]
Melissa K. Norris
Just one of your go tos, you just are like, oh man. Like, you don't even have to think about it. You can just make it.
- [48:03]
Lisa
Yeah, well, tonight we're just doing sandwiches and Mac and cheese. Like let's just say that for example, we all know that that would be something we would consider like, oh yeah, that's like something fast and easy that is more time consuming. If you're going to even do like a box Mac and cheese and sandwiches is that is more time consuming than a roast with carrots and potatoes. It's just that for five minutes yesterday you forgot to like have those vegetables in your, like stock them in your drawer in your fridge or whatever and get the roast out. But like that definitely takes more hands on time in the kitchen. So I'm trying to, like, I do want people to, to realize that it's not always this means when you cook from scratch, you're going to be spending your every waking hour. Like we're already spending time thinking about food, getting food. Like, like no matter which direction you take, you're going to spend all that time. It's just a matter of what the quality outcome is of that. And a lot of times in some ways, like it's less time. Like that's the same thing with sourdough bread. I'm like to mix up that dough and then let it sit for a while before I do a stretch and fold. That takes me five minutes. Like I know the recipe. It's, it's not me spending all my time. So yeah, just like a tiny bit of planning, a little bit of momentum. I think that's all really important.
- [49:19]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. And too one of the other things like I love about cooking a large protein which for our, you know, us use like roast or chicken or those types of things is like, we'll have the roast chicken for that night and then I know I'm going to have the carcass in order to make broth later, you know, later. But then the next day you can take that and turn it into a completely different meal with, with such little work. So a lot of times then I'm going to shred it up and maybe we're just going to add some barbecue sauce and then I just have to make some buns and then we can have like barbecue chicken, you know, like on sourdough buns and then just maybe roast some asparagus. Like those are, it's actually really, really quick. Or just like on lettuce wraps. Even if I don't even think, you know, get to making the sourdough buns that I want to have or whatnot. Like, oh, well, we can just do like lettuce wraps, or we can do a bowl. Like, I can just cook some rice in the broth that we've made and we'll just go ahead and make like some type of a bowl. So I like having kind of that bulk thing, because to your point, if I've got this bulk thing of cooked meat, I know that I can turn that into a plethora of different dishes throughout the rest of the week or until we consume it all.
- [50:21]
Lisa
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like you said with like, the sourdough buns, if on that same day, it's kind of in your routine to, like, on the days I make large amounts of chicken or roast, I also get a batch of sourdough buns going. Again, it's not time consuming, but it is going to be the thing that's going to allow you to make those barbecue chicken sandwiches the next day. As simple as it is, if you don't start it the day before, you're not having it. And yes, there are other things you can do with that meat, but I think just like creating these little habits, these routines are super important. Let's talk about your new book, Home and Handmade. Who is it for and what do you hope that people take away from the book?
- [51:01]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah, so Home and Handmade, honestly, is the blueprint that I wish I would have had walking back to 2010 when I was had the biopsy of my stomach and esophagus and was told, like, you've got to figure out by the foods that you eat how to control this. Or next time you come back, it probably will be a cancer diagnosis. And so I was starting from what I felt like was ground zero. And there is a lot more information out there and available today, like as we've shared and even options. But it's really that cookbook that I wish I had had and not that, but just was the guide. So there's over a hundred recipes in it, and a lot of the ones that, like, we've talked about today, and I share those tips, like freeze your cookie dough, the biscuit recipe is in there, like all of those types of things. And then here's how you take this and then you create this into a meal. So there's like the recipes of some of these basic pieces, but then it's that bridge of, like, this is then how you create the meal out of it. So here's the recipe for the meal. Either use the pie crust or you can use the biscuit toppings to kind of show that way of cooking. Like we're talking about where it's more intuitive now, but until you get to that point, you're like, I don't know how to do that. So it's really walking people through those steps and the beginning steps to eating better food. So there's fermenting, there's sourdough, there's regular bread baking for people who are like, I just, I'm not even ready for sourdough yet. You know, like, I just want some basic recipes. There's that, that's in there and then there's also some of the bigger picture. So it is predominantly a cookbook. They said there's over 100 recipes in there, but there's also recipes for skincare and beauty care. There's also recipes for how to clean your home naturally and there's some herbal remedies in there. Because the part about homesteading in your home is the kitchen and our food is such a big part of it and it is so important. But so were those other elements, you know, the things that we put on our skin and we come in contact with the things that we're cleaning our homes with. And when we do come down with something, how are we choosing to treat that and to support our bodies? And I'm not anti pharmaceutical, but I found personally being a pharmacy tech for 18 years and working in there and then actually studying herbalism and diving head into that, that our go tos for my entire family have transitioned and are to the natural remedies and the herbs. And so really giving people kind of that, that framework and a really solid foundation is what the book is. So it is for definitely for if you're brand new, but it is also I got to do it, it's updated. So originally the book was published in 2016 and so this is the updated revised version. So I've got to go back and add, you know, from almost 10 years now.
- [53:56]
Lisa
10 years more of experience, 10 years.
- [53:58]
Melissa K. Norris
More experience to add, to add in there. And what was really funny is fundamentally it was still so many of the recipes I still use today. So that was also kind of exciting because it is kind of timeless.
- [54:08]
Lisa
Still doing this stuff.
- [54:09]
Melissa K. Norris
I'm still doing this. But I have to say, even as like a from scratch cook and all of that, like I love cookbooks that I know it's from scratch ingredients, like it's the way that I want to cook. It's not going to tell me to use a can of condensed, you know, cream of whatnot. I don't. I'm always on the lookout for good cookbooks. Like, I love cookbooks. I even like to sit, read cookbooks. I don't know, maybe I'm weird, but.
- [54:30]
Lisa
You get ideas, inspiration for other people do things. You're like, oh, I hadn't thought of that. Because, you know, you have all these people in their own homes making it work for their own families. And so people come up with things. You know, it's, there's like, there's good ideas to be, to be found and learned from.
- [54:45]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. So I would say for anybody who's wanting to cook from scratch from their family in a more whole food oriented way, it's definitely for them.
- [54:54]
Lisa
Okay. Yeah, that sounds exciting. What's been the most rewarding aspect of living this homemade handmade lifestyle for you over the last decade? Two decades almost.
- [55:05]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. Honest, Honestly, has, has been my own, my own health. I started as I shared that and seeing, knowing what I went through, having the medical bills, having all of the testing, having a specialist sit there and say, you need to figure this out or you're probably going to have cancer at 29. I was 29 when all of that happened and wondering like, am I going to be here when my kids are grown? Right. Yeah. And by making those changes, being able to come off all of the medications, I've never had to go back on any of them. Healing the erosion, healing the stomach acid. I mean, and that's just like the tip of the iceberg, like.
- [55:52]
Lisa
Right.
- [55:53]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah. I am so grateful that I actually had a specialist that told me to look at food because I'd been to several doctors. That was the reason I was on massive prescriptions and not one of them, them told me to look at food.
- [56:06]
Lisa
Right.
- [56:07]
Melissa K. Norris
Yeah.
- [56:07]
Lisa
It's unbelievable.
- [56:08]
Melissa K. Norris
And so I'm grateful for it, honestly. But I wish so many people truly understood our food and how it affects our bodies before they reach that point, before they reach the point where they're feeling debilitated or they've actually got serious damage has been done to their body. But to also know a lot of things can be reversed and knowing that food has a huge, huge, huge part of that, more so than I feel like most people are aware of.
- [56:44]
Lisa
Well, you had to start learning all of this during a health crisis so you're not feeling well and then trying to figure out how to do things that you've never done before, that does seem like a whole new challenge.
- [56:59]
Melissa K. Norris
So I just hope that for anybody that it gives them the tools that I wish I had had and can help them before they reach that point.
- [57:09]
Lisa
Yeah, yeah. That's very, very impactful, encouraging stuff. Tell the listeners where they can follow along with you and where they can find your book, the newly updated Home and Handmade.
- [57:21]
Melissa K. Norris
Well, on my website, Melissa K. Norris, there's the books tab and you'll see Home and Handmade. It's at all major retailers, so of course, course, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, ChristianBooks.com pretty much anywhere you can buy books. You'll be able to find that. And to follow along with the journey Pioneering Today Podcast I am. I love podcasts. They're one of my favorite modes of learning and inspiration. So would love to have you pop over there and yeah, thank you, Lisa, so much for having me on.
- [57:48]
Lisa
Yeah, thanks for coming on again. Really appreciate it. Thanks as always for listening to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. My husband, Luke and I and our eight kids work together side by side on our little homestead and use our blog, podcast and YouTube channel to reach other homemakers, home cooks and home setters with practical recipes and daily family life. For everyday sourdough recipes, make sure to check out our blog, farmassomboon.com and to dig deeper, we do also offer a course called simple sourdough over@bitvit.ly Farmhouse Farmhouse Sourdough Course. That's all one word. Bit ly Farmhouses. If you're looking to learn how we earn an income online, check out my YouTube course at bit ly farmhouse YouTube course all one word. Sam.