300. Reframing Birth: Pain, Preparation, and Letting Go of Fear | Lana of Girl, Teach Me

Summary

Simple Farmhouse Life Podcast Episode 300: Reframing Birth with Lana Sullivan of Girl, Teach Me

Release Date: July 29, 2025
Host: Lisa Bass
Guest: Lana Sullivan

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Introduction

In the milestone 300th episode of the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast, host Lisa Bass delves into the profound topic of childbirth, focusing on natural and home births. As Lisa anticipates her ninth child and plans for a home birth, she welcomes Lana Sullivan from Girl, Teach Me to share her extensive experiences and insights on birth, pain management, and overcoming fear.

Guest Introduction

Lana Sullivan introduces herself as a homeschooling mother of five who stumbled into the world of natural birth through an elective class during her master's program. Her passion ignited, Lana founded Girl, Teach Me, a platform dedicated to educating and mentoring women, especially new moms, on various aspects of motherhood, including birth.

[00:32] Lana Sullivan: "When you look at the stats, worldwide, 95% of births are natural and normal and need no intervention."

The Naturalness and Normalcy of Birth

Lana emphasizes the fundamental nature of childbirth, highlighting that the vast majority of births occur naturally without medical interventions. She stresses the importance of understanding that both the mother and the baby are biologically equipped for birth, which can significantly alter a woman's perception of pain and fear.

[08:06] Lana Sullivan: "Your brain decides a hundred percent of the time whether you feel pain or not... your brain is trying to make the decision."

Redefining Pain in Birth

A central theme of the discussion revolves around reframing pain during childbirth. Both Lisa and Lana advocate for viewing contractions as "working pains" rather than purely uncomfortable sensations. This mental shift can transform the birth experience, making it feel more purposeful and less daunting.

[28:23] Lana Sullivan: "Your body's working hard to do what it knows how to do... it's working hard to birth a baby."

Personal Birth Experiences and Lessons Learned

Lana shares her journey through multiple births, each providing unique lessons that shaped her current approach. She reflects on her initial misconceptions, such as the need to remain overly comfortable and minimize any discomfort, which hindered her ability to effectively manage labor pains. Over time, she learned to partner with her body and baby, allowing for a more fluid and empowered birth experience.

[32:13] Lana Sullivan: "Once you gain that knowledge... you welcome it instead of resisting."

Importance of a Supportive Birth Team

Both hosts agree on the critical role of a supportive and knowledgeable birth team. Lana underscores the necessity of choosing the right midwife—someone who aligns with the family's birth goals and can provide both emotional and practical support during labor.

[14:00] Lana Sullivan: "Having really educated midwives... it's just nice to have the right person on board."

Preparing for Birth: Education, Classes, and Mental Readiness

Preparation is key to a successful natural birth. Lana recommends educating oneself through reputable resources such as the Bradley Method, Ina May's teachings, and positive birth stories. Additionally, mental readiness involves overcoming fears and setting realistic expectations about the intensity and unpredictability of labor.

[32:22] Lana Sullivan: "Taking classes and reading books and getting the right team on board... flow with it."

Navigating Hospital Interventions and Transfers

The conversation touches on the realities of hospital births and the frequency of interventions. Lisa shares her personal experiences of unexpected inductions and the challenges of trusting medical advice. Lana points out that while transfers to hospitals are sometimes necessary, they often result from calm, informed discussions rather than emergencies.

[40:49] Lana Sullivan: "It's usually a conversation... it's a calm conversation."

Postpartum Recovery and Pain Management

Postpartum recovery, particularly pain management, is another critical topic. Lisa discusses the intense cramps she experiences after birth, noting that natural birth often leads to quicker physical recovery compared to surgical births like C-sections. Lana shares her methods for managing postpartum pain, including the use of herbal remedies and over-the-counter medications, acknowledging that experiences vary widely among mothers.

[45:37] Lisa: "My afterbirth cramps... are so bad."

Audience Questions

Postpartum Supplies

Lisa and Lana address audience inquiries about essential postpartum supplies. Lana mentions After Ease, an herbal remedy for easing postpartum cramps, while Lisa shares her personal challenges in managing pain with over-the-counter medications, highlighting the variability in postpartum experiences.

[44:51] Lana Sullivan: "I feel like it helped me a fair amount."

Free Birth Perspectives

The discussion moves to the controversial topic of free birth, where women choose to give birth without medical assistance. Both hosts agree that while it requires extensive preparation and knowledge, it can be a viable option for those confident in their ability to manage unforeseen complications.

[52:37] Lana Sullivan: "I just want to have the freedom... I want to feel taken care of."

Including Children in the Birth Process

Lisa asks whether Lana includes her children in the birth process. Lana shares her experience of having her older children present during the birth of her youngest, aiming to normalize the experience for them and reduce any fears they might have.

[56:45] Lana Sullivan: "This time I included them... they were basically all there."

Conclusion and Resources

In closing, Lisa and Lana reiterate the importance of being well-prepared, both mentally and practically, for childbirth. They encourage listeners to seek out trusted resources, educate themselves, and choose supportive birth teams to ensure empowering and positive birth experiences.

Resources Mentioned:

• Lana Sullivan's Platforms:

  • YouTube Channel: Girl, Teach Me
  • Blog: GirlTeachMe.com
  • Courses: Labor Without Fear

• Lisa Bass's Platforms:

  • Blog: Farmhouse.com
  • Courses: Simple Sourdough, YouTube Success Academy

Listeners are encouraged to explore these resources for further information and support on natural living, handmade crafts, from-scratch cooking, and entrepreneurship from home.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements and non-content segments to focus solely on the informative and conversational aspects of the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Lana Sullivan]

When you look at the stats, worldwide, 95% of births are natural and normal and need no intervention. So I think the first thing is I wish more women just knew how natural and normal birth is. That doesn't mean it's not scary. That doesn't mean there won't be discomfort. But just to know that your body has been made to know what to do. Your baby's been made to know what to do. Now granted, there is like a 5%. Like sometimes birth is wild and right. You cannot control that. And that's why every single time it's a faith walk. It's a portal of growth that you have to go through because there are no promises.

[Lisa]

My name is Lisa, mother of eight and creator of the blog and YouTube channel Farmhouse on Boone. On this podcast I like to talk about simplifying your life so you can live out your priorities. I help you learn how to cook from scratch and decorate on a budget through this podcast and my courses Simple Sourdough in the Simple Sewing series. I also help people reach their goals from home through my business course, YouTube Success Academy. I will leave links to these resources in the show notes in description box below. Now let's get into the show.

[Lana Sullivan]

Let's foreign.

[Lisa]

Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. Today we are going to talk about a topic that is becoming more and more relevant to me by the day as I am approaching our due date. And when this comes out, probably five or six weeks from now, we'll be having baby number nine and planning a home birth like we've planned for baby the last six before this one. And so talking about birth and home birth and natural birth is something that is near and dear to my heart. And I'm joined today with Lana Sullivan of Girl Teach Me. She talks about birth on her channel. She also talks about other things that moms, especially young moms, can really learn from. But of all ages, there is something to learn when it comes to birth. And we were both talking about how we learn something each time that we have another baby. There's just so much to unpack here. I think you'll really enjoy this interview whether you're about to have a baby or maybe you're just here for entertainment value. I think that there's a lot to learn. So join Lana and myself to talk about birth. Lana, thank you so much for joining me. We're going to talk about a topic that is close to me right now. I know you help women in this world all the time whether you are pregnant or not. I feel Like, I'm kind of into it when it's coming up close and then it's something that I don't think a ton about in between time. But there's always someone in the audience who is expecting or maybe they're going to be, or they had a birth that they wish could have been different. And they need education. So let's start first with introductions. Tell us about yourself and what you help people, people with and what you teach people.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. So my name is Lana. I am a homeschooling mom of five and I feel like I just fell into this natural birth world. I took a class when I was getting my master's that was like a last minute elective and it was maternal childhood nutrition. And basically in that class she was like, you know, just telling us all about raw milk and breastfeeding and natural birth. And so I've just. Since that moment, it just sparked a love in my heart. And then just going through it myself. Yeah, I feel like there's just so many women that need help with it. And so I've just fallen into helping women at church, helping women online get ready for birth. And so I started Girl Teach Me. Just an extension of my heart to like, I used to coach college softball. So I was like, okay, I'm not doing that anymore. I'm homeschooling kids. So how can I still mentor other women? How can I still be a help? So that's when I started the YouTube channel and the blog, Girl Teach Me. So it feels like I kind of get to like, online mentor beyond birth.

[Lisa]

Yes, motherhood.

[Lana Sullivan]

But birth is always something that continues to come up.

[Lisa]

It does. It comes up. And you talk about other motherhood topics as a mom of five and I forget what your oldest kid is, but you've been at this a little while and there's things that you've learned and then, you know, you've added three kids and four kids and five kids. And so there's a lot of wisdom you've gained over the years.

[Lana Sullivan]

Well, I mean, I feel like, right. Like you're about to have your ninth. Like, we're just learning as we go and we're figuring it out as we go and people are like, how do you do five? And you're like, well, I did one first. And you know.

[Lisa]

Yeah, yep. It's just one at a time and more of the same. That's what I like. All the, the parts about newborn and postpartum and sleep training, you know, or however you approach that, but nursing and then getting them to try to sleep at some point. It's. It's tough when you go through it, but it's. It's just more of that. Not all at the same time. I think people always picture, like, all of that at one time, but it's just all of that but for a much longer phase of life. And not as condensed, maybe, and I've.

[Lana Sullivan]

Heard you say it on, like, Q and A's, but people will ask you about a phase that you're not currently in, and it's like you forget almost, and you're like, okay, how did I do that again? Like, how did I ever get them, you know, independent, just a little bit out of my bed because we co. Slept for so long. So. Yeah. Yeah, it's.

[Lisa]

That's always really the challenge. People will ask me questions when I'm in a certain season, and then they'll ask me the same question when I'm not in a certain season. And it's not that I fully forget. Like, I know it was challenging, but when you're not in it, in it, it doesn't feel like that big of a deal. That's another thing that I. I really try to remember, and sometimes I struggle with. People will have one, or they'll be pregnant with their second or about to add their third, and I'm like, I'm pretty sure that was, like, pretty easy. Like, it's just been a long time ago. And so I think that's what it is, is I. I just honestly. And we always say, like, old people forget. Like, they're like, oh, you know, just wait till this. Because that part's easy.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

And. And there are certain things that definitely are just, you know, it's just. It's just hard when you're not in a certain phase, like, if you're not in your first trimester of pregnancy. Like, I get this all the time, because recently I was in my first trimester of pregnancy, and I don't get super sick, but I get. I just, you know, I don't. I'm not motivated. I'm tired. I feel nauseous. I don't throw up, but I feel really, you know, nauseated the whole time, and it feels like a huge trial. But then afterwards, I'm like, yeah, I think you just, you know, you eat, you try not to get too hungry, and you just try to, like, clear your plate a little bit, but, you know, forget just how hard it felt.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, I feel like the Lord is gracious to help us forget some of the extra hard parts you know?

[Lisa]

Yeah, yeah, you remember, like, I'm like, yeah, first trimester isn't fun. I don't like that. But I'm not in it to where I realize how life altering it is. And that's, I think, all the different phases of motherhood and we're all on a different path and we've all, we've been at this a certain number of years and, you know, there's, there's lots of wisdom I can learn even from young moms. They'll say things and I'm like, oh, I forgot about that. That's something I forgot about a long time ago.

[Lana Sullivan]

Absolutely. I even love being around college girls. Like, it's so invigorating to be around, like, younger women because I'm like, oh, I forgot what it was like to be cramming for that test and be all stressed. And so I, I love being around younger women. I feel like, yeah, there's always something to learn. So absolutely. That's how I feel.

[Lisa]

Yes. Okay. So with birth, this is something coming up soon for me. And I think people assume that when you've been through it a certain amount of times, you know exactly what to expect, exactly when to call the midwife. You aren't. There's zero fear, zero. You're not nervous because you know exactly how it's going to go, which isn't true because each birth is a different scenario. So what is one thing, just to start right off the bat here, that you wish more women knew about natural birth and then particularly pain, because that's what I think what most people think about.

[Lana Sullivan]

Sure. Yeah. Oh, man, there's so much. I. I'll keep it concise. I mean, when you look at the stats, worldwide, 95 of births are natural and normal and need no intervention. So I think the first thing is I wish more women just knew how natural and normal birth is. That doesn't mean it's not scary. That doesn't mean that there won't be discomfort, but just to know that your body has been made to know what to do. Your baby's been made to know what to do. Now, granted, there is like a 5%. Like, sometimes birth is wild and right. You cannot control that. And that's why every single time, it's a faith walk, it's a portal of growth that you have to go through because there are no promises that just because it's gone well before, it'll go well again. I mean, that's how I felt before my fifth birth was I kind of had to, like, Recommit my trust to the Lord that like, I trust you through this birthing process. And so every time I have to like recommit that trust. But I wish more women knew that when you see birth as natural and normal, it changes things in your brain. And your brain decides a hundred percent of the time whether you feel pain or not, because your brain is trying to make the decision, okay, I'm feeling this sensation. Is this a working pain, kind of like working out, or is this a hurting pain, like an emergency? Should I admit more pain or should I like register this as like, this is working pain? And when you see that, when you see birth as like, my body is working hard to do what it knows how to do, I think it starts to change your whole experience of birth. If you feel like this is a natural, normal thing to go through.

[Lisa]

Yes, I 100% agree with that. I was some, someone on social media was really talking about home birth and how, you know, all the classic things that people who maybe sometimes I feel like just aren't super educated on it will say. And I thought, okay, you know, that's their opinion, that's valid. And then I realized that they've never experienced normal natural birth. And I'm like, well then that would shape how you feel about it because they've never even gone into labor without some kind of intervention. And so to them this is not something that unfolds in a natural way and they've never seen it unfold like that. And that is going to shape your perception of it being dangerous and out of, out of the norm. And I think we get a lot of voices like that, that we don't qualify, that we hear them say something like that, like, oh, I could never, because, you know, I know that birth is this, this, this and this. And then you come to find out they've only ever experienced whether it's with others that they've encountered or if they, they work in, you know, they work as a nurse or something like that. Their large majority of their experiences are always bad. There's always some kind of intervention that has to happen. Have you found that to be the case as well?

[Lana Sullivan]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, when I listen to birth stories from, let's just say like some women at church and they're hard burst stories because maybe there's been lots of interventions. Like I have so much compassion for that because. Right. They've, they haven't seen how the other side of how it can be. And so, you know, I'm, I'M patient with that. But, you know, I had a dear friend, she was in her 20s, and she came to my fourth birth, and she was just so scared. But then afterwards she was like, lana, that was so incredible. And forevermore, that's going to change the way she sees birth. And I'm excited for her one day that she'll at least register that experience. And I think that we just don't have the same opportunity that maybe people had hundreds of years ago to be a part of a natural, normal birth in your family or in your village. And so, yeah, I think. I think when all you've heard is from culture is scary stories and you've heard that perpetuated at baby showers and with your family, it's like that negativity starts to affect you a little bit if you're not, like, vigilant to, you know, kind of guard your. Your heart and your mind.

[Lisa]

Yeah, yeah. I think it's. It's an interesting thing because without overcoming some of that fear, how are you ever going to experience it in that other way? And so it kind of further reinforces that it always turns out like this. I had my first two babies in the hospital, and the first experience, I thought it was some kind of, like, special story, everything that happened with her. And then after talking to women for the Next, you know, 17 years now, I realized, oh, no, no, this is just the story. This is literally just how it goes. And I thought it was like my child almost died because, you know, xyz. And I don't know if you feel like that way, but I feel like I've heard the same exact story just hundreds of times.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yes, yes, yes. And that's why it's so hard to hear, because you hear the story and you think what I hear coming through with some of those stories, and I'm not saying this was with yours, but when I hear some of them, the way they're talking is that they had to be saved. Like, the doctor. The doctor swept in at the last minute and they literally told me that. Yeah, like, so the doctor's the hero in the story. Yeah. And we're kind of the victim of birth. And, you know, and that's the way I think a lot of women are told is like, birth is just something that, like, you need to be saved from. And actually, I have found it to be an incredibly empowering experience of trusting the Lord more. And it's like this huge portal of growth that we don't need. I mean, like I said, there's that 5% of the time. Yeah, absolutely.

[Lisa]

I'm.

[Lana Sullivan]

I always say, you know, but yeah, I'm.

[Lisa]

Yeah, I feel like it'd be scary to be pregnant 200 years ago. I'm so glad that, like, should something go wrong, we're good.

[Lana Sullivan]

We're living in the best of both. Yeah, we are. Yeah.

[Lisa]

Yes.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yes. If you have the right team. And like, that's one thing I try to stress is like one of the first best decisions you can make is like, get a really good team on board. And I know some people are really like pro free birth. But for me, I want to have, you know, having really educated midwives. When I go sit down at their appointments, we talk for like an hour. I'm picking their brain, I'm learning all I can. And when they come to my birth, it's almost like being at your wedding and you don't have to think about all the details, like when you have, you know, and so it's just nice to have that right person on board who's like coming in and they're thinking about all this stuff. So I can just focus on birth. So I don't, I don't know how I got on that. But like, I just feel like it's so important.

[Lisa]

Well, it's really important because what I see happen so often is someone who doesn't already have a lot of the knowledge on birth. And I do think if you did, you could almost be like, okay, I already, I already know, like, I can be my own advocate.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

But if you're, if you're new or, you know, you've only had certain types of births, you will defer to the expert because they're the one that is telling you whether or not your child will be safe. And if you go against them, then you are deciding that you are smarter than the expert, which is a scary place to be that nobody wants to be in. So you have to choose your expert carefully because when times get in, which honestly they kind of always, there's almost always something, right? There's something that makes you a high risk candidate or something. And the expert will tell you xyz. And if it's not from a natural perspective, why would you argue with them like they're telling you from their vantage point, which is one that has seen a lot of babies be born, that you are making a risky decision. If you start from the beginning by choosing someone who you trust to the point where if they do tell you that, you know, great, let's go to the hospital, you know, they have Your best interest at heart. And they also are aligned with what you are. Your goals are for the birth 100%.

[Lana Sullivan]

Like, if my midwife told me, lana, I know that you want to be at home and I know you want to have it this way, but like, this is what I'm seeing, it would be game over for me because I.

[Lisa]

Trust her that much.

[Lana Sullivan]

And I interviewed her and vetted her to the point where I know that she's, you know, in my area. She has seen literally like, you know, over a thousand births. And yeah, I know. She's so knowledgeable and that's just really important to me. I don't think enough women when they're pregnant realize, like, it's a business in a way and you've got to go and interview that person and to get the job. Not just anybody gets the job just because they're the quote unquote expert. And yeah, because, like, I don't want to go through power moves when I'm trying to birth a baby. I don't want to know.

[Lisa]

Or even leading up to it. Yeah, because that's what happens too is this whole time, you know, we're good, we're good, we're good. Then all of a sudden you're 38 weeks. Like, oh, but you're, it's too late. Like you're at this point. Because that's what happened with my second. I was like, fine. I didn't like how that first one went. I mean, we did every. Looking back, we did everything wrong. Like everything. We, we just started it from the beginning wrong and then we just continued to make the wrong decision the whole way. And so I know why it went the way that it did. So my second one, I'm like, not doing that. I'm going to have a natural birthday in the hospital, which I was able to have a non epidural birth in the hospital, but there wasn't much natural about it because it was around 38 weeks that they told me, oh, they had a lot of things wrong. First she was breach, then she flipped. But then she had iugr, which I know IUGR is an absolutely real thing, but looking back and with her weight and with the way that my body measures, I always measure behind, even though the babies are always large, it wasn't. She was totally fine. And so, you know, the induction, the whole thing. But at that point, like, I already was like really educated on birth. I read Ina May, I read the Bradley method, but still my doctor was like, yeah, you could do that. But she'll likely die. And like, well, then I guess we're gonna go into.

[Lana Sullivan]

Oh, man. It's like once somebody says that to you.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Lana Sullivan]

You know, like, I've been a doula before, and I've watched the doctor pull the power move, like, what's your number one goal for birth? And it's like, well, absolutely, I want a healthy baby. Well, we're going to have to go about this a different way, you know, so it's just even the way. And I don't think that that doctor's intent was bad. I just. I just was like sitting back going, oh, these are power moves. And that's so hard to navigate in her time of need.

[Lisa]

So another thing, and I don't know if doctors even believe it themselves when they say it or if it's a power move. What is with doctors telling women when they're going to go into labor? I thought it was just a thing that happened a long time ago, and now people just know that, like, they can't actually predict that. No, no, it is still said. And I could be very in controversial waters right now, but I still see people saying, oh, well, my doctor said, because I am this efface and this dilated, it'll be long or, you know, several weeks, or it's going to be this week. And I'm just like, do they believe this or is it just.

[Lana Sullivan]

It's so interesting. I mean, I'm sure, you know, like, good midwives can see patterns, but I actually had a friend when I lived in Tennessee. She was an endocrinologist. And I was talking to her shortly before I had a baby, and she said, do you want to hear something fascinating? I was like, what? She was like, as much as we know about hormones, we still don't know fully the concoction of hormones that has to come together for a woman to go into labor. She's like, that's how much of a mystery it's a mystery even is to an endocrinologist. Like, I was like, wow, that's so cool.

[Lisa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so maybe I'm come off a little strong on that. But it always frustrates me when I hear someone say that because they're already getting into their head. They're already like, well, I'm not gonna have this baby for weeks. They said that to me with my first. And I was like, okay, well, so in my head, induction was on the table because I was zero and not a face at 40 weeks. And with what I know now, that's doesn't tell you if you're in labor. That just tells you. Yeah, I don't even know what it tells you.

[Lana Sullivan]

I feel like it's a. I feel like for a lot of women sometimes we struggle with control and I feel like a lot of this towards the end is like a woman sometimes just grasping for control. She wants to know, she wants to plan. But I think one of the amazing things about birth is like it's like a birthing month and you really don't know when it's coming. And like if more women could just embrace the mystery that like God knows the baby knows. And I'm gonna roll with that a little bit and I'm not gonna try to like manipulate or control this process. Like yes, I'm uncomfortable, but sometimes you have to get to the point where you're so uncomfortable that you would rather walk through birth than you would stay pregnant one more second. And so I just feel like if, I just feel like if we could just like let go a little bit and, and stop trying to predict it. I don't, I don't know it. I've just noticed that like this control.

[Lisa]

Thing, it's such an interesting thing cuz you can't predict it. And I think everybody want signs. Like my sister and I, we always talk about at the, at the end of pregnancy every time. Like how are they not hard and fast signs? Because they're not like if you lose your mucus plug, it could be this afternoon or it could be two weeks from now. There's never. Unless your water breaks. Okay. That's more of a sign that. That's never. I've never had water break before labor has begun. So it's not a sign that happens very often.

[Lana Sullivan]

It never does that for me.

[Lisa]

If you're dilated, that means you could have a baby today or two weeks from now.

[Lana Sullivan]

Right. Like your last one was prodromal labor. Right. So I mean you were like going through that for. Yes.

[Lisa]

And so like you really like everybody even asks you every time when you're pregnant. Any labor signs? Well, I don't know that there are any except labor. So the calendar, that's what I always say. Well, the calendar is my best labor sign. Like I'm due, so. Yes. But other than that we want there to be. Yeah. Some kind of way that we can predict what's going to happen. And there's just a very wide range of opening parts of labor that you can't predict and they don't necessarily tell you anything for sure. So I think That's a. It's an interesting thing to me that it almost like we still ask the doctor, like, when am I going to go into labor? As if they can. People that will do like this, too. My baby's measuring big, so I'll probably have them early. And I'm like, no, no, no, I don't know. No, that's nothing. Oh, yeah.

[Lana Sullivan]

Oh, man. Oh, man. And the whole measuring bigs, sometimes they just get that really wrong. I had a friend when we lived in California, and they were like, yeah, my husband's big. They said this, and they get in.

[Lisa]

Their beat about it.

[Lana Sullivan]

And so they induced her. And the baby was barely sick. I mean, they. They really got it wrong, you know, and she was induced for that very reason. I'm like, yeah, just. Well.

[Lisa]

And I don't know, I guess I have so much context now because like we said earlier, forgetting things, you forget what. How serious something feels before you have more context. And so with my third, after my second was induced for iugr, we took it real seriously. We went and got growth scans. I was measuring really small again, so he had to have several ultrasounds. He came out 8, 7. And then all the ones after that, I just measure small. And now I know that because I've had so many kids that when they put the little tape on, it's like, yeah, I don't know why, but I just measure small. I don't know where they go, but it never lines up. And so I have a lot of context to where I just brush it off and don't take any of it seriously. But for that second and third, that was a really serious thing. My, you know, we have iugr. It's a thing that I have. I'm somehow broken. And obviously there are real things like that, and people lose babies from iugr. But just the fear that I had going into that third pregnancy after thinking that with the second context kind of gives me a little bit more to go off of.

[Lana Sullivan]

It's. Yeah. I think it's so interesting, too, because, like, if you had stopped after three babies, you would think, you think about those three experiences. That would be like, what you think about.

[Lisa]

That's so true.

[Lana Sullivan]

To have many more experiences. And we, you know, you think about, like, what you've learned for each one. I know I've got a nugget from every single birth that like, oh, yeah, I learned that. I learned that.

[Lisa]

So, yes. Yeah, I have two. And really with the context of the other five, I've had the first three I realized were all normal. Like all of the things that happened with them. I can see why they did and I can see that nothing actually was wrong at all. And so really my perception of those three would have been like, okay, this is chaotic. Things go wrong, they don't grow right. But now after the other ones, I'm like, I really didn't ever have IUGR with any of them and my first one only turned out how it did because of how we started everything and then continued to intervene throughout it. So context has even sort of redeemed those. And that happens with people with birth too. You could have a couple of bad experiences and then there can be that one that changes how you view it all. Time for some life talk. Life insurance talk, that is. You probably have it. But do you know how much you're paying for it? And for how much are you being covered? Odds are you pay too much for too little. And did you know if you receive life insurance through your job and you're unexpectedly laid off, you could suddenly be covered for nothing. Scary to think about, but simple to get right. Thanks to Selectquote where I'm headed to sort out my life insurance policy today. For over 40 years, select quote has been one of the most trusted brokers in insurance, helping More than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. Their mission is simple to find you the right insurance policy for your unique needs. They shop, you save. Unlike other one size fits all life insurance companies. Select Quotes license agents who work for you. In as little as 15 minutes they'll compare policies from top rated carriers to find you the best fit for your health in your budget. And they work for you for free. No medical exam. No problem. They partner with providers offering same day coverage up to $2 million without needing to visit your doctor. Have high blood pressure, diabetes or heart disease. Select Quotas partners with policies designed for many pre existing health conditions so you get the protection you deserve. Get the right life insurance for you for less and and save more than [e-mail] farmhouse save more than 50% on term life [e-mail] farmhouse today to get started. That's SelectQuote.com farmhouse with summer in full swing, I feel that familiar urge to refresh my closet. But I'm trying not to waste money on pieces I'll only wear once or for just one season. I want things that are classic, long lasting staple pieces that make me feel put together relatively easily. That's where Quint comes in. Their clothes are Timeless feel, luxurious look elevated, and the quality is way beyond what you'd expect for the price. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that just clicks. Think 100% European linen top starting at $30. Washable silk dresses and skirts. Versatile warm weather pieces you'll reach for again and again. I already picked up a few things this summer that fit the bill from quints, like the 100% European linen smocked midi dress in a stripe. It's classic. It'll work right now since I'm having a baby later this summer, but it'll also work next summer. It's cool and comfortable, well made. I also grabbed some basic T shirts that are just a bit elevated. Truly a wardrobe essential. The best part, everything with Quint is half the cost of similar brands. By working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middleman, Quint gives you luxury without the markup. And Quint only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium medium fabrics and finishes. I love shopping quints and I think that you should too. Give your summer closet and upgrade with quints. Go to quince.comfarmhouse for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com farmhouse to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com farmhouse yeah, so let's talk a little bit about pain because that's, I think what people really want to know. What has helped the most for you after having five experiences with pain management in birth?

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. So I think when, when I think about my births and how I've kind of learned from each one, I think my perception of. I know this isn't exactly what you asked me, but I'm going to tie it back into birth is like the first time I really thought and I had taken like hypno babies. And I'm not, not knocking that. But like, I guess my perception was like I needed to stay as comfortable as the whole time in order to have a baby. And like, I'm not talking about like relaxing. I'm talking about like I literally thought that I'm not. There's not really going to ever be a time where I have to walk through a moment of discomfort. Like I, I guess I was thinking to win at natural birth. This sounds crazy, but I just needed to stay super, super comfortable. So what that looked like is I was just like huddling in the birth tub. I was unwilling to get in any positions that well and I had a posterior baby. So I needed to help him turn and things like that. And so what. What I started to learn is that you have far less pain if you realize that your body is working hard to birth a baby. Your baby's working hard to be born. If you can just partner with your body and your baby and realize this is a working pain, very much like the last couple of miles of a marathon, you know, like, your legs are hurting, but you're probably not breaking bones or anything, you know, and. Right. Yeah. Just switching that in my mind to, like. Instead of, like, I need to be as comfortable the whole time to. Okay, this is, like, going to be a really hard workout. This is going to be a challenge, but I'm doing this for a purpose. And when you birth, because you know that you're going to get that baby in your arms, like, much like you're running a marathon, because you know you're going to cross the finish line, you're not just running to keep running, to keep running, you know, when you keep it in the forefront of your mind. I'm working hard for my baby. I'm working hard to. I don't want to resist what's going on. I want to partner with my baby. I think that whatever discomfort you might be feeling, it's reworked in your brain as this is like, a good and helpful thing. I'm going to flow with it. Instead of, like. I think my first and my second birth, I was running from the pain, and I was resisting the working contractions that needed to take place. I was resisting. And I think of. Flowing allows your brain to. To flow more oxytocin, which is way more strong, like, stronger than morphine. It's stronger than the. It's. And that's so kind that the Lord would give us that oxytocin. But you have to flow, and it's a love hormone, so you can't be tense, you can't be, you know, tight, and. And like the Bradley Method, like, the relaxation is allowing you to just flow with it. And I think it would change a whole lot of women's entire birth experience if they would see it that way. That's a working pain, not a hurting pain.

[Lisa]

Yes. Yeah, I agree. They show that in the Bradley method, or at least one of the books I have that teaches how to do the Bradley Method. They show the diagram of the muscles, and that always helped me because I literally just picture what's happening, and it's not this scary foreign thing. I'm, like, literally just trying to pull these really strong muscles open. To allow the baby out helps me realize it's not like leg breaking type of pain. This is not a pain that's bad and unnecessary. It literally has to happen.

[Lana Sullivan]

Sure, yeah. I think those visuals in that book are really, really helpful because once you understand, and I think this was a lot of things, once you gain that knowledge, once you prepare and you read books and you know, you, you do that prep work and you understand what's happening in birth, then you're like, oh, like, yeah, it's having to kind of work down so that my cervix can open. Like, this is good. I welcome this instead of like resisting. And that was like just the swap I had. And that's when birth got far less painful, is when I stopped resisting what was happening.

[Lisa]

So as a first time mom, what were some of the ways that you prepped yourself? Or I guess what I should say is, now what would you recommend to prepare?

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, my midwife was great in California. She was really great. But what I didn't recognize or realize at that point is some midwives are the kind of midwives that'll be your doulas too, which means they're, they're there for your emotional support too. And some midwives are just literally there to keep you safe and keep baby safe. And that's great too. What I had was a non, dual and midwife and so she kind of just left me alone. Like I really could have benefited that first time from having my, well, one, my husband have more education, which I think Bradley is. The Bradley method's great for helping husbands learn how they can really coach and help their wives and support their wives. He did his best. He, he was there by my side. He didn't leave my side. But I just was not prepared. I took hypno, like I said, I took hypnobirthing, which was offered at the birth center. But it just made me feel like I needed to be like hypnotized through birth. And that's not, that was not helpful actually. And so I would say, like you said, Ina May, you know the Bradley method, like Susan McCutcheon's, her book, those are great books, but also like hearing a lot of really positive birth stories. Once you realize that women have been birthing for forever and as you're birthing, you know, thousands of women, millions of women around the world, they're birthing too. Like, it just starts to normalize it in your brain. But the first time, I mean, you're. It's a challenge. I mean, Some midwives literally won't take first time moms because they know it might take a while and they don't want to be there that long. They're not that patient. A lot of doctors. Yeah.

[Lisa]

And first time moms maybe don't know when to call either.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. You know, true.

[Lisa]

I feel like sometimes I don't know when to call, to be honest with you. But they call too soon on average, right?

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. So they sent me home, like in LA. I drove 45 minutes to the birth center. I labored there. And then they sent me back home and told me to take some Tylenol pm. Like, you think just because, okay, you get excited, this thing's happening. Okay. So I need to go wherever I need to go. That is kind of the benefit of home birth is you're not going anywhere. There's no hurry. You know, you can continue to make bread or biscuits and do your thing and then the midwife will come when she thinks that that's like, I think the benefit of home birth, there's nowhere that you have to get to in a certain amount of time. So.

[Lisa]

Yes. Do you feel like on your first one you weren't. Well, I think maybe a lot of times you don't. Just, just don't know how intense. And I don't want to say painful because also I feel like I now have learned how to work with the intensity of it. But I think you're. You are a little surprised at the intensity level that ends up happening to the point where when it first starts, you think this is probably what we're waiting for, right?

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is one of those things that I think birth educators, midwives, everybody tiptoes around the first time.

[Lisa]

Mom.

[Lana Sullivan]

Because you don't want to give them the perception, you don't want to scare them. But it is probably going to be the most intense thing you've ever walked through in your life. I mean, you're, you know, your pubic bones, everything has to move, everything has to shift. It's. It's going to be intense. But I don't think it's not going to be bad. I mean, it's just. It doesn't have to be bad. It's like it's a portal of growth. And I think, you know, taking classes and reading books and getting the right team on board and maybe getting a doula. If your husband, if he's, if it makes him nervous, like getting all the support and then it just buckle up. It may take a while. It may. I know there's first time moms. It doesn't take, you know, normally though.

[Lisa]

Normally.

[Lana Sullivan]

Normally.

[Lisa]

Ever hear anybody that I was on.

[Lana Sullivan]

And off in birth for two days, I mean.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Lana Sullivan]

And then never again. They say you never birth your first baby twice. Never again taken near that.

[Lisa]

Nope. I know. I told that to my. One of my sisters. Had her second baby in the last year and I was like, just. It just always. Okay. I shouldn't say always, but it almost always goes so much faster and I don't really know exactly why that is, but it just, it just does.

[Lana Sullivan]

It just does. And I don't want to discourage first time moms. You know, it's. Yeah, like get a midwife who is willing to be there for the long haul or at least not come until you really need them. And I don't know, it's. It just might take a while. And that's not a bad thing. You know, I think you need to hydrate, you need to rest as much as you can because it might be a while and not get too excited too fast. So.

[Lisa]

Yeah. And even for most first time moments isn't always the case. It's long, but the intense part of labor is about the same. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like it's just that first stage that really stretches out that can get exhausting because you can't necessarily sleep through those contractions. But they're not all going to be like the thing you picture on TV where a woman's, you know, just so upset and crazy and crying. That that very intense part, at least in my experience, is always towards the end. I think there are probably some first time moms who are like, no, no, no, no, no. It happened to me and I actually was in that phase for a really long time. But for the most part what I hear is it's just a really long part of like even effacing can take contractions on your first.

[Lana Sullivan]

Just can take a while. Yeah. And through that whole time, if you can be like, you know what, this may take a while, it may not, but I'm just gonna buckle up and I'm gonna stay hydrated, I'm gonna rest as much as I can and my body is working. Every single contraction is bringing the baby closer to me, even if it takes a little while. And you know, just not despairing, get, you know, if your doula wants you to get in a certain position to help baby spin or move, like getting the right help, but then just knowing like the Lord knows when the baby's gonna Come and I can just again, like flowing with it. Like, I think having electrolytes, I literally cannot imagine in, in certain situations in the hospital, like when they won't let you have water or things like that.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Lana Sullivan]

It would be like running a huge marathon and never having those drink stations or, you know, those snacks. Like, no wonder your uterus is going to get tired because it's a muscle, it needs help. You know, I just think about that sometimes.

[Lisa]

Yes. So did you have all five of yours, you had all five of yours at home or no. You had one at the birthing center?

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, I had one at the birthing center. So my husband was in physical therapy school, so home birth was a bit of a stretch for him. The first time he was like, landed.

[Lisa]

Yeah, it usually is. That's common.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

But once he got there, like wrap your brains around that.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah. But when he got there, he realized essentially the birth center was like an Airbnb. Like, it was like, yeah. You know, and it had all the same equipment that she.

[Lisa]

We always say it's a home birth. You drive to like, literally what it is.

[Lana Sullivan]

Absolutely. I'm like, oh, or I could do the same thing, stay home, climb into my fresh bed and go right to sleep.

[Lisa]

Yeah. I think it takes like one birth center birth to realize, oh, wait, we just drove to a home birth. Like, what?

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That was the step he needed to feel more comfortable. So, yes.

[Lisa]

So many people have. I agree. That's a really common thing because. Well, also we live in a more rural area and so we're actually really far from the hospital. So the one thing that's great about a birth center birth, at least the birth centers where we are is, yes, it's just a home birth you drive to, but it's closer to the hospital if there needs to be a transfer. And that's something you're thinking about, which, you know, I think that's a lot of people's concern if they live an hour plus from the hospital, something they're thinking about.

[Lana Sullivan]

Right. And that's. Those are questions that typically, like concerned family members are going to ask. Right. Is like, how close are you the hospital, how quickly can you get there? And you don't blame them. But yeah, I definitely think it is a stretch sometimes for first time moms to do the home birth.

[Lisa]

Yeah. And I will say just on that note, most of the things that happen during a birth that require a hospital transfer aren't actually that big of an emergency. Like, they're, they're usually Something that. It's like, yeah, I think we should go. But. And there are some things. I don't want to deny that there are some things that could be quite emergent, but there are. I don't know what percent. Most of them are like a casual hospital transfer.

[Lana Sullivan]

Sure. I talked to my midwife about this a fair amount, because, like I said, she's a wealth of wisdom. Every time I go, I'm like, this is my chance to ask you about every little situation. And she told me about one time where they were trying to feel for where the baby was position, things like that. And they're like, I think we're feeling a butt. Like we're trying to figure out what we're feeling. And even in that moment, she got to talk with the husband, wife and be like, y' all think about it. You know, you've gotta. You've got like, 10 minutes to kind of like, think through what you guys want to do. We can stay home, but this. These are the conditions or transfer. You know what I mean? So it seems like a lot. Not like. I'm not saying always. It sounds like for her, it's usually a conversation. It's usually pretty calm, and it's like, okay, this is what we need to do. And a good. I think a good, seasoned midwife will get you out of her career the moment she knows that this is no longer where you need to be. And that's. That's kind of like what you're interviewing for at the beginning is, you know, when you say go, I. I think you have good reason. You're not just giving up and wanting to go home on this birth because you're tired, you know, so.

[Lisa]

Right. Yeah. Yep. I have. One of my sisters was having. Supposed to have a home birth, and she did have to transfer. And it was. It was definitely a conversation. It was not something that was an emergency. It was just. Yeah, I think. And, you know, I trust her midwife, and I think it really was a good reason to switch or to transfer, but it wasn't this urgent thing. Like, there are a few things like that could happen, like cord prolapse or certain prolapses where you gotta go asap, but those are quite rare. What's more common is it's a discussion. And I mean, one thing to consider when you're far from the hospital is you're likely pretty far into labor, and so you have to drive an hour at that point, which is rough. But as far as the safety, that's usually not the issue with the hospital. Well, eventually it would be, but not quickly.

[Lana Sullivan]

Sure, sure. I mean that, that's a lot of what I've heard too. I mean that completely lines up. And you know, I transferred with a friend when she was in, you know, in labor and kind of got to see how it was all handled. So that was like a good learning experience for me. But yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't think, I think a lot of times it is a cat, you know, it's a calm conversation. But I don't know, it's just that 5% of time that we just have to hold space for. And that's why birth is not like blanket statements. That's why, you know, it's not one size fits all. And that's why sometimes it is nerve wracking and it's a faith walk. I mean, it's just, it's just the way it is. You know, I think, yes, I've seen.

[Lisa]

People who have multiple children and then on the 8th or the 9th or the 10th, something happens that never happened before. And you know, that's when you do hold space for that and you don't just, you know, we're staying home no matter what. I think that's a good place to be open minded about it.

[Lana Sullivan]

I mean, it always keeps me humble too. Like talking about birth, I feel like that was one of the things. Like one reason I didn't want to share about birth is I didn't want to put myself out there. Like, oh, look at me, I've had five natural births and I take the credit for that. It's like, no, I mean, yeah, like I, I'm really grateful. I feel like the Lord aligned certain things, you know, certain people to help me and you know, even taking that class in my masters just opened my eyes to normalize birth. But yeah, it's, it's, it is some of those things we can't take all the credit for and yet we can prepare as best we can. That's what we can control, right? Is our preparation. How, how many birth stories we listen to, limiting the negativity. Like we can do so much and at the end of the day, birth is just wild and that is the way it is. So I don't, it's, it's just like an interesting thing you have to hold loosely.

[Lisa]

Yeah, well, we have a few audience questions that we can address. I'm looking through them to think, okay, which ones have we kind of already covered in a lot of ways? What are some of your favorite postpartum supplies for moms.

[Lana Sullivan]

Okay. I. Have you ever used after ease?

[Lisa]

Yes, I used that last time. That's the one that's supposed to help with the cramps, right?

[Lana Sullivan]

I don't know. What was your experience? Did you have a good experience with that?

[Lisa]

Here's the thing. My after birth cramps, I don't know what this says about me, are so bad.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

So like, it does not touch it because an herb's not going to touch what I'm experiencing after labor.

[Lana Sullivan]

It's supposed to get worse the more you have. Right. Like that's what they say, the more babies you have.

[Lisa]

And it's something that I don't even think about. Because all you think about is the intensity of labor.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yes.

[Lisa]

And then you don't really think about the after. And I mean, again, I'm not going through it right now, but theoretically, I know it's literally worse because of how strong mine are. So, yeah, I tried it. I'll probably try it again. I mean, why not?

[Lana Sullivan]

But I, I feel like it helped me a fair amount. But I still like, though I'm not somebody who's popping Tylenol and ibuprofen all the time. Like those, those are times where I will take some. I just tried it.

[Lisa]

It just didn't even touch it.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. That's so interesting.

[Lisa]

I was like, so why take it?

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. I mean, my midwife was like, you should try this. I was like, yeah, I didn't have high hopes. It did help me. So maybe if somebody's like on their second, third, fourth.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Lana Sullivan]

But I have heard like, I mean, right. It's getting your uterus back in place. So it's doing something. But.

[Lisa]

And I do think mine shrinks down faster. Like I've seen a lot of people sharing online where they'll show themselves like a week after. And on my first and probably second, honestly, all the way through my sixth, I was wearing like regular jeans, you know, like a week later. Now that's not the case. I hold on to the weight, but my, my uterus doesn't look like people look pregnant. That's common and normal to look pregnant a week later, two weeks later. I don't. And so I think my body's like, we're gonna go back right now. Which I would take the belly. Trust me. It is awful. It is.

[Lana Sullivan]

Oh, man. Your body's working overtime just trying to get things back where they go.

[Lisa]

Maybe that's it. I don't know.

[Lana Sullivan]

But it is so hard. It's so hard because you don't have the expectation. I mean, like you said, you're. You're anticipating, you know, pushing the head out, all those things, you know, and then you're like, what?

[Lisa]

Labor's not done for, like, three straight days after.

[Lana Sullivan]

Oh, man. But I will say, though, like, natural birth, I mean, you can just bounce back so much quicker. Like, I think about my friends who've had C sections and things like that, and I'm like, oh, like, that pain, you know, of every time holding your baby and things like that. It's like, I know that we would totally take that kind of pain versus.

[Lisa]

But, yes, it's absolutely true. Yeah. And I don't even dread it. Like, I don't look. I don't think, like, oh, this is going to be so terrible.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

But I just. I do know that it. It's strong. Those absolute cramps. Yeah. And like you said, they get worse with the more kids you have. So if you're not planning to have nine children, maybe you won't have to worry about this.

[Lana Sullivan]

Oh, man. Yeah. Like, oh, I'm so excited for you, Lisa. Though, like, every time. Every time. It's like, I. I do have to trust the Lord in any way. It's a portal of growth every time. And have to get my mind right every time. It's just. Yeah.

[Lisa]

Yep. Yeah. It's a. It's a. It's a whole discussion each time. I mean, I guess not really, like, for us, but as. As you're leading up to, you're like, oh, boy, here we go. It's not like. It's just. I don't know. In some ways, I think. You think, oh, you know, what's one more. But we notice. Trust me, we know.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. Yeah. For me. For me. I, like, lay it, you know, I'm. I'm like, I'm pregnant with my six, actually. I think I'm like 15 or 16 weeks.

[Lisa]

Oh, I don't think I realized that.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, for me, when I get kind of big and I wake up in the middle of the night, I'll have a thought. I have to get this baby out of me, and I'll just get bigger.

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. As they get bigger, and I'll kind of have a moment of sheer panic, and then I have to talk myself through that. You know, I have to kind of, like, take my thoughts captive. But every time, I'll have a moment where I'm like, oh, I have to.

[Lisa]

Birth this baby, you know, towards the end of pregnancy. Or do you feel like you already start to Think of it because I never think, like right now it hasn't even crossed my mind. I. I'm 32 weeks.

[Lana Sullivan]

Okay.

[Lisa]

But I think in like probably about six weeks from now, when I realize I'm gonna go into labor, like, you know, soonish, I'll. I'll be like, oh, you know, that's when it'll. It'll start to creep up on me.

[Lana Sullivan]

Totally. Totally. Yeah. I mean, until that time, I'm enjoying the nesty energy I'm getting. I'm trying to get projects done around the house. I'm trying to prep for after baby comes. And then it's like when you get kind of tired and you start slowing down, you're like, oh. Like it's when you feel like that there's nothing on the calendar after that.

[Lisa]

Because you kind of planned. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lana Sullivan]

That it kind of gets real. Or if there's somebody else who's pregnant with me and I know they're probably going to go ahead of me and then they have their baby, I'm like, oh, it's game time, right?

[Lisa]

Yes. You know those people do around you. You're like, people always ask me, like, getting close to the birth, like, are you all ready? I mean, I'm always like, I don't remember what you're supposed to do. Just right. Like just some newborn diapers. Is there anything else?

[Lana Sullivan]

Right, Right. Yeah.

[Lisa]

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[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, I mean, I think absolutely, like being prepared for all the situations. Right. That's only empowering to, you know, instead of, oh, gosh, I really hope they get here because you know that I think that's going to make us a little anxious and worried too. So it's like if you're in a situation where it might take a while for the midwife to come or you might birth really quickly, like, what's the harm in learning and just being prepared? Right. And so, but as far as free birth, I mean, I can't speak for, you know, everybody. I just know that I want to be out of the front. I don't want to be in the frontal cortex of my brain trying to make analytical decisions when I am trying to birth. I just want to have the freedom and I get that it's kind of a luxury, but I just want to focus on doing what I'm doing and I don't want to have to make decisions. I didn't have a wedding planner at my wedding and it's like one of my greatest regrets. At my wedding, because I was analytically thinking through wedding details, like moments before I'm walking down the aisle. And I don't want to feel that way when I'm in birth. I want to feel taken care of. I want to feel supported. I want to feel like somebody's looking out for all those warning signs, and I can just be present in my body. That's what I want. Granted, I know that you have to pay for a midwife, and I know not every midwife is perfect. I've. I've witnessed that. I've seen midwives that. I'm like, I feel like you should have been. I don't know, you've disappointed me in a way, you know, and so I think sometimes free birthers have had bad experiences with midwives and feel like some. How a midwife has sabotaged a birth, and sometimes that's why they want to do free birth. I mean, the way I feel is like, I could probably squat down in my bathroom and probably have the baby and it would probably be fine. Like, I tell myself that, but I still. When she walks through the door, there is a part of me that feels. I'm talking about my midwife. I do feel like a little bit of, like, oh, like it's okay. That's how I feel. And I like that feeling.

[Lisa]

Yeah, Yeah. I. I think I feel the same way. I. I like to have the midwife very hands off. I definitely don't want, like, a doula midwife. And I. I've actually never felt that way. So I know everybody's very, very different on that. So you have to take your personality and how you view things.

[Lana Sullivan]

I don't want that now. I just want to be okay. But the first time I was like.

[Lisa]

Yeah, I don't even. I don't even know. That was so long ago. I don't know.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lisa]

I forget. But I, Yeah, now, yeah. I'm like, I honestly just want you to walk in right when the baby's being born, just in case something happens. But, like, I can literally grab the baby and do it all myself. And the way all my births have turned out, that would have been fine in hindsight, but, you know, I. I do want somebody there to tell me if something is alarming. I don't want to think about that, so. I agree. I think that that's. That's why I've chosen to always have a midwife as well.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah, I get. I get that it's a personal choice and. But I just think it needs to Come from a place of like, have you done all your research? Have you been. Do you feel really equipped and not like going to let it go? And. And I don't know, hope for the best?

[Lisa]

Because, yeah, the people that I know that do that, do free birth are quite knowledgeable and they know what to do if something arises. And so I think it's important to. To not just think, oh, nothing could ever happen. That would be naive.

[Lana Sullivan]

Right?

[Lisa]

Yeah.

[Lana Sullivan]

And they probably have a kit of things. They probably have.

[Lisa]

Oh, yes.

[Lana Sullivan]

You know, they're.

[Lisa]

They're prepared. Their own midwife.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, they're prepared.

[Lisa]

Yeah. Otherwise, to just hope everything, like, nothing goes wrong. That would be.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, I feel like that's unwise in some way because you're just not. You're, like I said, you're not doing what you can on the free will part of being prepared and just, oh, I hope it'll just go okay. And I'm like, I don't know. I just would like to look back and be like, I did everything I could and this is still how it went. So I can live with that.

[Lisa]

One question we got is, and I get this a lot, do you include your kids in the birth process? And if so, how?

[Lana Sullivan]

I never have. Until this last time. This last time, it was like really my prayer that I would have my baby during the day. I've always had my babies, like, in the middle of the night.

[Lisa]

Oh, I. It's the best if you. But you can't control it. So.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. Yeah, I just was like, had.

[Lisa]

Yeah. Several during the day. And my sister's only had her labors overnight. And it is absolutely the way to do it is to have your baby during the day.

[Lana Sullivan]

It was so nice before. You know, I've had grandparents come and get them so I could focus and. And there was an element of, like, I didn't want somebody to need me when I'm just trying to be totally relaxed and totally focused. I didn't want like a toddler being like, you know, up in my face. That's just what I didn't want the first couple times. But this time I guess I had this vague hope in my heart that my girls. So I have two older boys. They're 10 and nine, almost 11 and nine. And then my girls are seven and five. So I guess it was like 18 months ago. But I wanted my girls to see that birth is normal. And so I kind of had a hope that maybe they would be around enough to just know that mama's working really hard. But mama's okay. And so it turned out that they were basically all there. I mean I'm in water so like my boys couldn't I have a bra so they can't really see anything that's going on under the water. They all wanted to be there, which I was really shocked about. Like my four year old, like had her hand on mine and I think they were nervous, but I hope that they always remember that. I don't know if this next birth will get to be like that, you know, maybe I'll have a baby again at 2am and nobody.

[Lisa]

Yeah, you just never know. And that's the thing too. I think people plan certain things and they really think about them and then when it comes down to it, you know, you don't know what, what time it's going to be.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, I just hold, I just kind of like held it loosely, like, huh, that would be nice to have a baby during the day. Oh, that would be kind of nice if they would know it's okay, you know, like, and I could see it on their faces and I would just between contractions, like, I'm okay. Like, I'm just working really hard. Like, don't let it, don't let it make you nervous. And so I included them this last time. Who knows, they might be like, what'll happen? No, I'm good. I don't want to be. I had enough last time. Maybe that's the way they feel, I don't know.

[Lisa]

But yeah, yeah, yeah. I think my kids have never actually, none of them have actually been in the room. And it's not like I'm like, get out of here. I've never done that. And I've actually had babies during the day. Several. And the last one I had around I think two in the afternoon. And they're all around. Like they're in and out of the house. It was summertime, so they were outside inside. And so I think even though they didn't come in the room when I was actually having him, they're obviously going to know that I think birth's normal and that I'm giving them that example because they know what I was in there doing.

[Lana Sullivan]

Sure, they know.

[Lisa]

And then they just came in and there's a baby.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. What are your big girls like have? Like, what do they think? Because I know they're teenagers now, right?

[Lisa]

So yeah, they're 16 and 14. They'll be close to 15 and 17. They never ask about coming in. That's just never been something they've been remotely been Interested in. So. But. But they also, like, we'll. We'll talk about, you know, when I grow up and when I have kids. And I know they both think they're going to have home births. Just. It's just what it is. Like, that's what they've always seen. So I know that they're not scared of birth and they're just. I don't think that I'm also not a person who's overly interested in birth. I know a lot of people are really interested in birth, and I'm. I'm really not. To me, it's just home birth is the most practical way to do it. It makes the most sense when you look at the stats as far as just the outcomes. It makes the most sense from a family perspective. It's not something I'm, like, super excited about. Like, my sister, she loves it. She watches birth stories. It doesn't matter if she's pregnant or not. Whereas I'm like, I kind of only care if I know the person really well.

[Lana Sullivan]

I'll.

[Lisa]

I'll want to hear your birth story or if I'm needing maybe some kind of encouragement because I'm about to have a baby. And so I think they probably have that same personality about, and they're just kind of like, I don't know. I don't really care.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Lisa]

But they also will likely have home births when that time comes when they, you know, there's. I always say there's no super easy way to get a baby out. Like, it's not like there's a no pain, no fuss, like just no problem way that requires no, you know, you to give nothing. Even if you have an epidural, you have stuff afterwards that you have to deal with. So it's not like you're taking, like, home birth. Is this because some people will say, oh, you don't get a cookie for that. You're not a hero.

[Lana Sullivan]

I'm like, oh, man.

[Lisa]

I realize that there's just. You have to get the baby out somehow. And this one does make the most sense when you really look at all the angles. And so that's.

[Lana Sullivan]

I think those sayings always kill me. Like, what are you trying to prove? Are you trying to prove you're superwoman? You're like, no, I just don't want to have any interventions because I think that it's. I'm like, I don't want it to cascade into something even harder, even more painful.

[Lisa]

It's always, yeah, like, when you choose this thing, then you end up with this on the other end of it. Like, if there was some easy way, but yet the outcomes at the end of it end up the same, I would do that.

[Lana Sullivan]

Right. Choose your heart. Right.

[Lisa]

Like if there was no downfall of it, of course I would choose that. Like, sure. I'm not trying to like win an award for having to endure. It's just, it's a process that God made and it has to happen. And we really haven't found any way as man to make it to where it's just nothing. Yes, you can get an epidural and you don't feel certain parts of it, but then there's a lot of side effects from that too. So there's, there's just no easy way out. That's what I. And not to say it's not something like I'm dreading or anything like that, but there's no way. That's just. When people say that about, do you want, are you a hero? Do you want a cookie? They clearly think there's some like, alternative way, that there's no risk, there's no pain and you're just choosing not to do it. I'm like, there's, there's not.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. I could get on two sub boxes. One, like there is a whole, I did like a whole video like pain free birth because I hear that and I have had people in my circle who, they're aiming for the pain free birth and I feel like that's not really the right goal. I mean, great, if you have a pain free birth, if you have that experience, that's wonderful. But I think that that's a goal that leads to sometimes to bad expectations and disappointment. And then also there's this thing in womanhood where if somebody is trying to do something at an excellent level, why, why are we. There's a competitiveness sometimes with women where they're just not cheering for one another. They're. They're not learning from one another and they think just because you're trying to, I don't know, do something at an excellent level, it's, it's saying something about them. And I mean, that grinds my gear so bad because I'm like, oh yeah, why are we all not trying to do the very best we can? The audience of one. And why does it have to say anything bad about your. I don't know, that, that.

[Lisa]

Oh yeah, that's a, that's a whole other thing. Just every choice women make in general.

[Lana Sullivan]

But it comes out in burns because when you share your birth story, somebody Feels like their birth story is less than. It's like, absolutely not. That is zero. What I'm saying here, you know.

[Lisa]

Oh, yeah, it definitely comes out in birth. And that's where those. Do you want a cookie? You're a hero type of mocking things come from is you're putting it back on yourself and thinking, are you saying that I could have done that too? Or, you know, and yeah, women definitely do this. Yeah.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. It's kind of. Yeah, man. It makes. It makes me sad too, because I'm like, no, I don't. I wish that wasn't your first thought because that's. That's not at all. I wish you could just hear it from a place of learning. And. Not that I would ever say anything less than, but. Yeah, that's a whole nother soapbox, Lisa.

[Lisa]

It is. And I do think the kind of content you put out does help. I think most women are open to hearing it and open to hearing an alternative to maybe a very negative birth experience that they've either encountered or that they've heard about. And so tell the listeners about your YouTube channel, your blog, your Instagram, and what you help people with and just point them in the direction of learning more if they're. That's something that they're wanting to learn more about. Because we could talk forever about this.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, it's. I could too. So. Girl, teach me is just basic. I. I narrow down to new moms because I feel like I have the most to give to new moms. I. I still am trying to figure out, you know, 7, 8, 9, 10 year olds, but for a new mom, I remember the pain of feeling like there's so many opinions and I don't know what to do, and this is so hard. I cannot wait for my husband to get home and save me. I have such a heart for new moms because I think also our world doesn't exactly, you know, pat moms on the back and say, way to go. You know, they might say, you have a lot of education. Why are you wasting that on motherhood? And so I have just such a heart for new moms. So I try to think about a lot of pain points, points that new moms have and then speak to that in a way that hopes, hopefully empowers them and encourages them to step into the challenge of motherhood, because it is a challenge, but, wow, is it important? It's so meaningful. So that's what I'm trying to do with my videos from a lot of different angles is like, okay, like one of them was like, we're moms, not martyrs. We don't need to constantly feel sorry for ourselves and all the things. So, you know, just talking about different things like that. So that's my YouTube channel. The blog is kind of a mix of things. I mean, I took your blogging course, I took your YouTube course. And so mixing in like some recipes I'm making, trying to learn food blogging and things like that. And yeah, so that's what the blog is. And then the birthing is just honestly like, I knew I wanted to start a course. I know I'm a teacher at heart. So I kind of started with the thing that I feel like I knew the most about, which is birthday. So I just started there with like labor without fear. So that's kind of, that's kind of all that I'm doing with Girl Teach Me. It's, it's a lot of YouTube. I don't even do Instagram anymore. I just couldn't, I couldn't even show up there and homeschool.

[Lisa]

You kind of can't do both. I, I learned that a long time ago. I, I thought theoretically, if you're doing something and it's valuable on YouTube, then you should just film it for both. It's no problem. But like my brain either is like, I'm thinking about YouTube or, or Instagram and I think a lot of people are that way. I've seen a lot of Instagrammers quit on YouTube and then I'm kind of a YouTuber that quits on Instagram and it's just because you can't keep both.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, you just cannot. I mean, like, you feel like you're an expert at delegating and, and getting the help you need and yeah, maybe one day I can go back to Instagram if I have the help. But I'm like, right now I'm just focusing where I can give my time and efforts. I feel like I can help women the most through YouTube through long form content.

[Lisa]

Yeah, yeah, I feel the same way because you can really organize all of your content and you can demonstrate it in a real life way. Like this is how this goes throughout the week or in, in my pregnancy or in my birth. And you can document it more long form. So I agree with you.

[Lana Sullivan]

I think I'm not good at capturing a world, my thoughts in a 30 second snippet and keep people's attention like.

[Lisa]

Well, you got to be so clever.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, I'm like, I do not.

[Lisa]

Can I just show you what I'm doing?

[Lana Sullivan]

I don't have the bandwidth for that.

[Lisa]

I feel like that, at least with YouTube, the one part where you have to still kind of think of it in a clever way is the demonstration of like the title and the thumbnail. And it would just be so easy if I could just vlog a week and just put it up there. But it's anytime you have to package it, which I feel like Instagram is all packaging. It's all packaging and I just, I'm too busy, you know, at least that's the story I tell you in my own head is like, I can't think about that many things. And so I think that's what I love about YouTube. Even though you do have to still come up with a little tidy package for people to actually want to click on it, which is the one difficult part.

[Lana Sullivan]

I have to text my friends who are in the YouTube world. I'm like, this or this? Tell me. You know, I have to get second opinions sometimes. You're like, definitely this. I'm like, okay, because I'm overthinking it at this point. But you, I know you put all that time into a video and then if you don't have a good package. Yeah.

[Lisa]

So, well, and I've heard people say, well, just, you know, just don't worry about it. I'm like, you say that, but you're not the one who spent 8, 10 hours on a video that if I don't package this right, all of that work is going to just go to waste.

[Lana Sullivan]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Lisa]

Yeah. That's a. Another rabbit trail. But totally true. Because people will accuse creators of having clickbait, you know, because, you know, maybe they're putting the most sensational part of the video in the thumbnail. It's like, listen, you try spending this much time making a video and then nobody thinking they need to watch it. That's a little bit.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah. Or this isn't exactly what I thought I was clicking on. I'm like, I tried to encapsulate it in the title.

[Lisa]

Yeah, it's hard, you know, but you only get this little sentence here and then a little bit of text here. And that's what encourages people to click on this 20 minute video.

[Lana Sullivan]

Yeah. But I, I definitely feel like it's my favorite way to learn is just, just watching. I mean, I love the audience on YouTube because they want to learn. And I feel like with Instagram, it's like maybe I just needed a numb out moment. I just needed like a second. And so I really appreciate the women who are watching the video and leaving the comments because I'm like, you're, you're a sponge. You want wisdom, you want to learn. And like, you're my kind of people. That's like, that's how I want to invest my time.

[Lisa]

Yes. Okay. So over on girl, Teach me. And we'll leave links down in the description box or the show notes below to your course and your content. Thank you so much, Lana, for joining us.

[Lana Sullivan]

Oh, man. So fun. Lisa, it's so good to talk to you. Thank you.

[Lisa]

Thanks, as always, for listening to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. My husband Luke and I and our eight kids work together side by side on our little homestead and use our blog, podcast and YouTube channel to reach other homemakers, home cooks and homesteaders with practical recipes and daily family life. For everyday sourdough recipes, make sure to check out our blog, farmhouse.com and to dig deeper, we do also offer a course called Simple Sourdough over at Bit Ly Farmhouses. That's all one word. Bit Ly Farmhouse Sourdough Course. If you're looking to learn how we earn an income online, check out my YouTube course at Bit Ly Farmhouse. YouTube course all all one word.