302. Building a Profitable Business from Home as a Mom: Lessons from a Micro Bakery | Lily of Flour Barn Bakery

Summary

Episode 302: Building a Profitable Business from Home as a Mom: Lessons from a Micro Bakery | Lily of Flour Barn Bakery

Simple Farmhouse Life
Host: Lisa Bass
Guest: Lillian Hutchins, Co-owner of Flower Barn Bakery
Release Date: August 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of Simple Farmhouse Life, host Lisa Bass welcomes Lillian Hutchins, the co-owner of Flower Barn Bakery, to discuss the intricacies of building and maintaining a profitable home-based business while balancing motherhood. Drawing from over five years of experience, Lillian shares invaluable lessons on entrepreneurship, work-life balance, and the operational dynamics of running a micro bakery.

Starting a Micro Bakery with Purpose

Lillian Hutchins introduces herself and her bakery, Flower Barn Bakery, located near Columbus, Ohio. She emphasizes that their primary goal was never to amass wealth but to create a harmonious life where they could be present mothers while contributing financially to their families.

Lillian [01:09]: "From the beginning our goal was never to get rich. You know, it was to create this peaceful life where we could be mothers, present mothers and also make some money for our families."

Partnering with her sister and father, Lillian highlights the importance of finding joy in tasks and processes, ensuring that busyness stems from passion rather than obligation. This foundational mindset has been pivotal in shaping the bakery's growth and sustainability.

Balancing Business and Parenthood

One of the core themes of the episode is the delicate balance between running a business and managing a household. Lillian discusses how they established rhythms and boundaries to prevent burnout and maintain quality in both personal and professional spheres.

Lillian [09:13]: "So really just finding tasks and processes that bring you joy because it's not necessarily a bad thing to be busy if you're getting joy from it, but it's just finding, like, where's the line?"

She acknowledges that the early stages of their business demanded significant time investment, often blurring the lines between work and family. However, as the business became more established, they were able to implement a more structured schedule, allowing for greater flexibility and presence at home.

Operational Strategies and Growth

Lillian delves into the operational aspects of Flower Barn Bakery, detailing how they manage various channels such as their physical store, blog, YouTube channel, and social media. She underscores the importance of setting clear boundaries to ensure that work does not encroach excessively on personal life.

Lillian [11:00]: "Even I think what really stresses people out, like with bulk baking for their micro bakery is just figuring out a process that makes things simple. Like, that's been the hardest part."

A significant breakthrough for Flower Barn Bakery was transitioning from hand-rolling dough to using a sheeter, which streamlined their production process and increased efficiency. This shift not only optimized their workflow but also allowed them to scale their operations without compromising quality.

Cost Analysis and Profit Optimization

Lillian emphasizes the critical role of cost analysis in running a profitable micro bakery. She shares how involvement from her father was instrumental in implementing cost-cutting measures and optimizing processes to enhance profit margins.

Lillian [13:05]: "If we just change this one thing or if it takes us 10 minutes less to do this rollout, we'll be at a much better place profit wise."

Forrest, the co-host, agrees, highlighting a common pitfall among entrepreneurs who often prefer to work harder rather than smarter. Lillian's approach demonstrates the value of strategic planning and process optimization in building a sustainable business.

Menu Development and Pre-order System

Flower Barn Bakery's menu is thoughtfully curated to balance high-demand items with the capacity to produce them efficiently. Lillian discusses their reliance on a pre-order system to gauge demand, which helps them prepare adequately for busy days, especially during holidays.

Lillian [33:46]: "So our pre order system is what we use to kind of gauge what kind of, what kind of amount of people we're going to get."

This system proved invaluable during high-demand periods, such as the Fourth of July, where pre-orders allowed them to manage large crowds effectively. Lillian also shares insights on menu diversification, highlighting how adding items like cream-filled croissants and breakfast sandwiches not only cater to varied tastes but also improve overall profitability.

Embracing Whole Grain Baking

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around integrating whole grains into their baking process. Lillian offers practical tips for home bakers looking to substitute fresh milled flour into traditional recipes without compromising quality.

Lillian [50:10]: "If you're wanting a crunchy artisan loaf and you're having trouble with maybe a sourdough one, that sometimes just doing a yeasted artisan loaf with whole grains can be an easier option."

She advises on understanding gluten development and adjusting recipes accordingly to maintain the desired texture and structure in baked goods. This knowledge not only enhances the quality of their products but also deepens Lillian's appreciation and expertise in baking.

Sustainable Business Practices

Flower Barn Bakery operates primarily on Fridays and Saturdays, strategically choosing days that align with higher customer traffic and profitability. Lillian explains how this limited schedule aids in maintaining work-life balance while ensuring that operational demands are met without overextension.

Lillian [18:26]: "We wanted to provide high quality and high quantity products as moms, but now it's really, just really worked out for us in ways we didn't expect."

By concentrating their efforts on peak days, they maximize their productivity and reduce the strain of constant operation. This approach also fosters a sense of exclusivity and anticipation among their customers, reinforcing their brand presence in the community.

Advice for Aspiring Micro Bakery Owners

Lillian offers heartfelt advice to listeners considering starting their own micro bakeries. She encourages entrepreneurs to focus on high-quality products, leverage community support, and remain open to learning and adapting.

Lillian [41:15]: "But like every bakery started from a home baker. Like croissants in the beginning were made by loving people who wanted to create this beautiful, flaky pastry for their community."

She emphasizes the importance of starting with popular items, such as cinnamon rolls, which consistently draw customers and provide a reliable revenue stream. Additionally, she highlights the significance of passion and love for baking as foundational elements for long-term business success.

Leveraging Digital Platforms

Flower Barn Bakery's active presence on digital platforms, including their blog and YouTube channel, plays a crucial role in their business strategy. Lillian shares how creating "Week in the Life" videos has not only engaged their audience but also provided deeper insights into their operations.

Lillian [24:25]: "I've started doing these week in the Life videos... it just gets overwhelming to do it every week. So I've been doing one every two weeks for the past couple weeks."

These digital endeavors help in building a community around their brand, offering transparency, and sharing valuable content that inspires and educates other home-based entrepreneurs and bakers.

Conclusion

In this episode, Lillian Hutchins provides a comprehensive overview of building and sustaining a profitable micro bakery from home. Her experiences underscore the importance of strategic planning, process optimization, and maintaining a passionate and balanced approach to entrepreneurship. Listeners are left with actionable insights and encouragement to pursue their own home-based business ventures with confidence and purpose.

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Notable Quotes:

• Lillian [01:09]: "From the beginning our goal was never to get rich. You know, it was to create this peaceful life where we could be mothers, present mothers and also make some money for our families."

• Lillian [09:13]: "So really just finding tasks and processes that bring you joy because it's not necessarily a bad thing to be busy if you're getting joy from it, but it's just finding, like, where's the line?"

• Lillian [13:05]: "If we just change this one thing or if it takes us 10 minutes less to do this rollout, we'll be at a much better place profit wise."

• Lillian [33:46]: "So our pre order system is what we use to kind of gauge what kind of, what kind of amount of people we're going to get."

• Lillian [41:15]: "But like every bakery started from a home baker. Like croissants in the beginning were made by loving people who wanted to create this beautiful, flaky pastry for their community."

• Lillian [50:10]: "If you're wanting a crunchy artisan loaf and you're having trouble with maybe a sourdough one, that sometimes just doing a yeasted artisan loaf with whole grains can be an easier option."

• Lillian [18:26]: "We wanted to provide high quality and high quantity products as moms, but now it's really, just really worked out for us in ways we didn't expect."

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for moms and home-based entrepreneurs aspiring to build successful businesses without compromising their personal lives. Lillian's journey with Flower Barn Bakery exemplifies how passion, strategic planning, and community engagement can culminate in a thriving micro enterprise.

Transcript

[Lisa]

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[Lillian]

With the Bakery I have found a good rhythm for my life. From the beginning our goal was never to get rich. You know, it was to create this peaceful life where we could be mothers, present mothers and also make some money for our families. So really just finding tasks and processes that bring you joy because it's not necessarily a bad thing to be busy if you're getting joy from it, but it's just finding like where's the line?

[Lisa]

My name is Lisa, mother of eight and creator of the blog and YouTube channel Farmhouse on Boone. On this podcast I like to talk about simplifying your life so you can live out your priorities.

[Forrest]

I help you learn how to cook.

[Lisa]

From scratch and decorate on a budget through this podcast and my courses Simple Sourdough and the Simple Sewing Series. I also help people reach their goals from home through my business course YouTube Success Academy. I will leave links to these resources in the show notes in Description box below. Now let's get into the show.

[Lillian]

Foreign.

[Lisa]

Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life Podcast as we try to live.

[Forrest]

A simple life for some of us that is doing a business or industry at home. And I had on last year at some point Lillian Hutchins of the Flower Barn Bakery and she shared her experience with starting a successful micro bakery in her small town and she's had it for five years now alongside her sister and many other members of the family have now joined in this business. And I think she has so much wisdom to share as an entrepreneur and doing that in a smart way, but also in a balanced way that is different from what you see today in hustle culture where it's always like more and more, go, go. I think, I mean, a lot of us, I think have been kind of exposed to the lies of that over the last couple years, but still wanting to start a business and being faced with a lot of after some success is built up opportunity and figuring out how to navigate that, but still leading a simple home based life. She has a lot of wisdom to share on that in her experience for the last five years. So even if you're not interested in starting a microbakery or a business, it's a fun conversation and we're going to talk about some really great tips when.

[Lisa]

It comes to baking with whole grains.

[Forrest]

And converting regular recipes to whole grains. She has some tips that I hadn't thought of before that I think are excellent.

[Lisa]

So join us now for the interview.

[Forrest]

All right, well, Lillian, welcome back on. We had you on maybe a year ago, I don't know, I'm just making that up, something like that, to talk about your micro bakery. And today I thought we'll talk more about work, life balance and how you handle having a lot of opportunities but also having a home and children. I think that's something that everybody to some degree has to wrestle with. Even if you don't have some kind of business you're doing, the opportunity to have a business is there for literally everyone just because of the Internet. Like whether or not you are wanting to start some kind of content business like I have, or you're going to physically bake bread and sell it like you have, there's a way for everyone to market something these days and I think that can be exciting and a lot of opportunity but also overwhelming, especially if you're trying to live a simple, intentional life. So let's start first, just introduce yourself and then we can dive in.

[Lillian]

Yeah. So I'm Lily. I'm the co owner of the Flower Barn Bakery. It's a little bakery on a barn on our family farm. It's near kind of Columbus, Ohio area. And we have open hours on Fridays and Saturdays, 8 to 11. And then on top of that, every week we teach a class. So that varies from cooking classes, baking classes, to homesteading classes. And then to kind of coincide with our classes, we have also started a blog and a YouTube channel and then we're active on social media, so we've kind of tried to dip our feet into every aspect of the micro bakery world. But yeah, I do this with my sister who was with me last time. She's actually as far along as you are, pregnancy wise. She gets so out of breath.

[Forrest]

Yes, I know. Forrest has to constantly edit that out. When I'm doing my solo episodes, I'm always like, hold on a second. Because I talk too much and so I can't get an opportunity to breathe. Whereas when I'm talking to you, you give me opportunities to breathe when you talk. And so all my solo episodes are constantly. I'm like, hold on a second.

[Lillian]

She said, yeah. She's like, I had to explain to my son that I'm sighing because of pregnancy, not because I'm like upset with him all the time. She's like, I'm sighing because I'm trying to catch my breath. I'm not just like walking around sighing all day.

[Forrest]

But yeah, yeah, it's a thing.

[Lillian]

So, yeah. But I, I run this business with my sister and my dad and then we now have two full time employees, which is actually one of my other sisters and my cousin. So, yeah, a lot.

[Forrest]

Family business.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

Yes.

[Lillian]

Yep. Yeah, it's been five years, so. So lots. Yeah. Has grown.

[Forrest]

Okay, so you are in all the things, like you have a physical store that you stock and then you have a YouTube channel, you have a blog and you're on social media. So everyone wants to know how you balance all of that and still have a home life where there's just simple days where, you know, like, I have, I have days where I bake bagels and I don't film it. You know, like, that happens most days. It's a luxury.

[Lillian]

You're like, yeah, I'm gonna go crazy and not film this.

[Forrest]

Well, and it's so funny too, because once you break into that and you have that as part of your life, which it's such a great opportunity and it, it does mean that you can earn money without leaving your home. And it fits very seamlessly. But it's funny because once you are used to that, anytime that you're not filming it, like, you're like, when did I think just this was hard?

[Lillian]

You know, and you feel like filming it. Am I wasting this? Am I wasting making bagels if I'm not filming it? You know, like, well, yeah, that's a struggle.

[Forrest]

I feel like before I had some, like, defined goals and boundaries. So, like, I have a certain number of YouTube videos I do a week, and I have a certain number of podcasts I do. And. And beyond that, it's like, well, I already did my work. Like, I can just, you know, spend time, just. And that's most of the time. Like, I'm not filming most the things I do because ultimately on the Internet ends up 20 minutes curated of my life throughout a week, and then one hour of just me sitting here talking. And so it ends up that most of the time, I'm doing things without filming it. But, yeah, setting up those boundaries. And I'm sure you had a time. I think we talked about this on the last episode that you did with me. But, like, at first, maybe you push too hard.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

And. And then that maybe is why you set up some boundaries.

[Lillian]

Yeah. And I'm definitely still learning with, like, YouTube and all of that. That's very new to me. So I think I'm still trying to find my boundaries there. But definitely with the bakery, I have found a good rhythm for my life. From the beginning, our goal was never to get rich. You know, it was to create this peaceful life where we could be mothers, present mothers, and also make some money for our families. So really just finding tasks and processes that bring you joy, because it's not necessarily a bad thing to be busy if you're getting joy from it, but it's just finding, like, where's the line?

[Forrest]

Right.

[Lillian]

It's. It's hard to say because everyone's business can look so different. But, like, in the beginning, we were really giving all of our free time to the business to help it to grow. Whereas once we became more established, you're able to kind of create more of a. More of a schedule. Yes.

[Forrest]

Yeah. So I agree with you that in the beginning of starting a business, I think there's going to be some level of not having balance. Like, unless you come in with tons of money, you can right away hire a staff, which really, even if you did, your brain has to go into orchestrating that so that it actually stays successful. You can't just be like, just make me something cool. Just everybody get busy. So there's going to be a time like that. And I agree with you that you get to a point in your business where if you are clear about what the goal was and you don't just take every opportunity that comes your way, because the more success you have, the more opportunities do come your way, and that can be hard at first to really navigate. So have you had opportunities even when you know that they'd be profitable? That you've had to turn away. And how do you decide which ones to do?

[Lillian]

I am such a, like a feelings based person. So, like, I feel like when I start to get like a little overwhelmed, even if I'm excited about something, but I'm like, that seems like it's gonna take my mind completely if I devote myself to that. And that's really what I care about is like, physical labor is not as stressful to me as like when something is always.

[Forrest]

Absolutely. Yeah. Physical labor in some ways is like the easy work.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

I think we all know that deep down.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

Because that like, like I have tasks in my business that are like the ones I always want to do, and it's always. Because there's less brain.

[Lillian]

Exactly.

[Forrest]

You know, and then there's the ones that like, really move the needle and they're the ones that are sitting here like you're just sitting. But their brain.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

Right.

[Lillian]

Even I think what really stresses people out, like with bulk baking for their micro bakery is just figuring out a process that makes things simple. Like, that's been the hardest part. Doing the actual steps to create all our cinnamon rolls is not the hard part. But getting to the point where we established those actual processes was definitely the part that took a lot of thought and took a lot of, you know, bad days to. To figure out. Like, that definitely didn't work. You know, like, we need to, we need to figure out a better way to do this. Like we used to, we'd have these 107 ounce balls of dough, and me and Ellen would both get a rolling pin and we would like roll our roll outs together, like the two of us. And then we would make our cinnamon rolls. And then we would like, hand roll the cinnamon rolls together. Like before the sheeter, before the cheater. And now, now we have a sheeter. And like, it literally, you know, just changed your process. But even knowing, like, you don't need two people to. To roll out a rollout like you, it was definitely better off to do that. But yeah, just figuring out those things, even though it does take thought and.

[Forrest]

Well, I think so many people, and I've witnessed this in real life businesses, when you really come down to it, it probably took you like a couple of days or hours to really think through it. But so many times, because that is the hard work. Businesses will operate for 30 years doing things the hard way just to avoid two or three days of stopping and thinking and strategizing. Yeah, I've seen it. And it's just interesting because you'll work double hard physically just to avoid having to strategize.

[Lillian]

Well, even like, specifically cost analysis. Like, if, if my dad wasn't involved in the business, I think I would have avoided analyzing any of our products ever.

[Forrest]

Oh, yeah, it sounds like me. Yep.

[Lillian]

Yeah, yeah. But then he gets involved and he's like, we have to do this. And once you do it, he was like, if we just change this one thing or if it takes us 10 minutes less to do this rollout, like, we will. We'll be at a much better place profit wise. And that, you know, can make a huge difference.

[Forrest]

So, yeah, I'm so guilty of this. There's. There's so many things in the business, I'm like, I'd rather just work double hard than have to stop and think about anything. Because also it's. It's the kind of work, when you get done with it, you don't feel really satisfied. Like, that's my problem is I have these work blocks in my day and I really like to, when those are done, have like, okay, I filmed this video, I took this thumbnail image, I recorded this podcast, I wrote this blog post. I like those metrics. When I look back and think, I thought I sat there and I thought, like, I don't, I don't like that feeling afterwards. Even though when I really look back at the last 10 years of having a business, those are the times when the most profit ended up being made.

[Lillian]

But, yeah, the best changes happened.

[Forrest]

Yes.

[Lillian]

I think it's what's really exciting, though, because we can talk about, like, you know, cost analysis and not being stressful, but the truth is it's a great time for micro bakers. Like, there are stressful parts to it that you have to think through. But I really think that people are so, like, hungry, literally.

[Forrest]

And hungry.

[Lillian]

Hungry. They're hungry to make a connection with the local baker. They're looking for local bakers. So even if you just get started with a good product and good intentions for your community, you know, the, the world is yours. Yeah, there's just so many opportunities for people who love to bake right now. And so I don't want it to sound like, you know, there's, there's too stressful. But once you start to grow and you see that exciting growth, you know, you do want to step back and be like, am I doing everything to make the most profit? Am I doing the smart things? Am I pricing my products correctly? But in through our blog and our videos, I try to give people the things I'VE had to learn the hard way, the things I've had to think about and sort through. I try to give them those, like a blueprint. It's the. Yeah, but sometimes I don't even know, like, what. What did change things so much. Sometimes you're. You're not even sure. It just continues to grow.

[Forrest]

But yeah, and it can vary based on a lot of factors. So I think that sometimes people have to carve their own way. And I do think people get that analysis paralysis where if they hear this, they think, okay, so don't start until I've got it all figured out. No, no, I think you probably start and then analyze it a little bit later.

[Lillian]

Yeah, yeah. My sister was just saying, she's like, you know what Lisa always says it was like, stop consuming and start producing. Do you say that?

[Forrest]

I think a lot of people say it, but I agree with it. So I've probably spouted it off too.

[Lillian]

And in terms of, like, content online, you can get a lot of ideas, and they switch from being ideas to almost being like, if I don't do it that way, then I'm not doing it the right way. So, like, while it's nice to have social media to be like, oh, that's such a good idea, this is so smart, it can also paralyze you in thinking that if I don't have all the things that person does, if I don't have the life that person does, then it's not possible for me to have the profits that that person does. But, like, I would definitely say, like, be happy to. To grab ideas from other people. But then you also have to look at your life and think what works best for my life and how do I make this business an enjoyable one for me and one that I can keep enjoying for years and years to come.

[Forrest]

Yes.

[Lillian]

Sustainable, successful business. Yeah, it'll be around for a while and you want to love it. And I personally love my business. Like, I find new things each year that I love about it. And even as we continue to grow, like, I've just found, like, new parts of myself. Like, I used to never, I would have thought, like, talking to new people was very stressful. I was very, like, shy in high school. Like, talking to lots of people would make me nervous. And now, like, every Saturday, I'm so excited for our customers to come in and, like, get to see new customers and talk with the regulars. And, like, I'm not even just trying to be cheesy and advertise. Like, I truly enjoy that kind of stuff.

[Forrest]

Yeah. Enjoy it.

[Lillian]

So, I don't know, it's just interesting.

[Forrest]

Yeah, well, and we were talking earlier, like you were saying that when you have a YouTube channel, at least at first, having that thought of, oh, am I wasting something if I'm not filming it for Instagram or YouTube. But you mentioned having a business that you'll love for years to come. And that sustainability aspect aspect of it is why you don't film everything. Because if you do, you will burn out and you will just quit. And so let's talk a little bit about that. Creating a sustainable business. You are only open two days a week, so I'm sure that there's a reason for that. You want this family life balance. And I'm sure you could make a lot more money because I'm sure you're selling out so you could make more money if you were open more days, but you've chosen not to. So tell us a little bit about that.

[Lillian]

Yeah, so in the beginning, the reason we actually used to just be open on Saturday, so we weren't even open on Friday in the beginning. And that was really because this was created to be our mom job. We wanted to have a flexible schedule during the week where we could put all of that effort in to creating the baked goods. We wanted high quality, from scratch baked goods. We wanted to make all of our butter blocks, all of our doughs from scratch, all of our fillings. But all of that takes a lot of time. Everything takes time. Glazes make time, filling, you know, little things that you're like, I'll just whip that up later. They all take time. So if you have a flexible schedule during the week to take time out when you have the time to prep, then by the time Saturday comes, you can bake everything fresh and have high quality stuff to glaze it with, to fill it with. And so that's why in the beginning we were just open on Saturday. Because as moms, it just was what worked for us. It's what we could do. It's what we knew we could sustain. So that's why we did it. And then doing it, in doing it, we found that actually it was very profitable for us. Our community saw it as like an event each weekend, and that's kind of how we're preparing for it. You know, like we're catering this event that our community gets to come to. But you know, regular bakeries, their most profitable days are on the weekends. So being open just for that profitable day has really been a really great thing for us. And then also, yeah, I think when, let's say you have a local bakery in your town and you keep thinking, oh, I want to go there someday, I want to go there someday. Well, if they're only open on Saturday and Saturday comes, you're kind of like, well, I'm either going to go today or I'm not going to be able to go for the rest of the week. So I do think scarcity. Yeah, I do think it helps you be like, oh, yeah, they're only open, so I should put that in my calendar for Saturday. So in the beginning, it was just so that we could provide high quality and high quantity products as moms, but now it's really, just really worked out for us in ways we didn't expect.

[Forrest]

Yeah, well, I think that sometimes happens too, because I've had these thoughts with my business throughout the year. Like, man, if I spent more time working on this, like, I'm sure it would be double, triple, profitable. But then over the long haul, it seems like just the consistent, even though not like fast paced effort has actually paid off in ways that I didn't even expect.

[Lillian]

Yeah, because we're not, we're not paying employees to, you know, run the case during the week. Like we have employees in there, but we're not, you know, paying someone to just stand at the cash register for maybe a few customers.

[Forrest]

Right.

[Lillian]

Not wasting product because I wouldn't want to be open on Wednesday and then only make like five muffins. And then let's say all these people come, like, so you always have to make enough in case you're busy. So there's definitely benefits. But you know, in the beginning it was just, we wanted it to feel like a Parisian bakery where you get to go in and the case is packed full of really good stuff. And the only way we could handle doing that was if we devoted our whole week to prepping. So I think a lot of people think like, oh, you, you only work Friday and Saturday. I'm like, no, there's so much being done. There's so much being done. It's just happening behind the scenes.

[Lisa]

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[Forrest]

Yeah, I think last time we talked a little bit about your schedule and how you fit it in throughout the week as a mom.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

But now you have more employees I believe than last time.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

So how does it look just on a weekly basis now that you are where you are? I know you've had your micro bakery for several years now.

[Lillian]

It's been five years.

[Forrest]

Yeah, five years. So yeah, so yeah, we're going to talk about people getting started and how they could do something similar to you. But also you have to remember that you're five years in so you have some things established that you're not going to have right away way. But what does it look like now in your current season?

[Lillian]

Yeah, so I've started doing these week in the Life videos which you probably feel this way when you look at your videos. I'm always like wow, so much happened like during this week. Like I never thought about all that happened in a week Until I started filming. And I'm like, man, this is a lot of stuff.

[Forrest]

I know. Yeah, I. I do that. Like, I'll do like a day in the life homemaking video. And I don't film half the stuff because I'm like, they're gonna. You know, people will say, do you ever count it down? I'm like, well, this is only a 20 minute video. And I. I do, but I also. Yes, it's a lot of work. Like, it truly is. So I just, like, don't even film half of it. Like, if I. If I do the dishes four times, I just film it once, you know? But yeah, it's.

[Lillian]

Yeah, it's too. I don't film everything either because I'm like, that's just gonna get. Also a lot of stuff is repetitive. I'm like, people watch me 100 rolls of cinnamon rolls.

[Forrest]

Yeah, right, right. Like, you can show yourself doing a couple. Then that's. It's kind of. Well, we got it. We got it.

[Lillian]

Yeah. So Sunday, you know, obviously we don't work. We're going to church and stuff. And then Monday, I always kind of treat it like a Saturday because we don't really get our Saturdays. So, like, Sunday, Monday is kind of like our weekend. Okay. But my dad does go to a bulk restaurant store and he gets, like, bulk supplies, so he'll go there. So on Mondays is kind of like grocery day for him.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

And then every Tuesday evening is our classes. So depending on the week, depends who's teaching it, but me, Ellen and my mom are the primary teachers. So last week was artisan sourdough. So we had our artisan sourdough class Tuesday night. Sometimes it's the art of brioche, which is our cinnamon roll class where we make cinnamon rolls and brioche bread. And then we actually just did a milling your own grains class for the first time, which was so fun.

[Forrest]

So much interest in that right now. Just way more than there was a year ago.

[Lillian]

I know. Which my mom always milled grains. And so I didn't like, think of it as like, that strange of a thing. And then it really blew up. And now I'm like, oh, wow. People really care about milling grains now.

[Forrest]

Yeah.

[Lillian]

So, yeah, it's kind of. Kind of a fun thing that we had our foot in the door a little bit, you know?

[Forrest]

Yeah.

[Lillian]

But so that's Tuesdays, and then Wednesday is like dough day. So focaccia dough, brioche dough, sourdough and croissant dough is all made on Wednesday.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

Which is really crazy to watch you.

[Forrest]

And your sister both, like, in your own homes or.

[Lillian]

No, so we. So in our barn is the commercial kitchen.

[Forrest]

That's right. We talked about this last time. Yes. Okay.

[Lillian]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I think some people get that a little confused. Yeah, that is a little different. Yeah. So we have a barn, and in it is where we bake everything, where we prep everything, where we teach everything, and where we open. It just gets rearranged for whatever we're doing at the moment. So on dough day, two people are usually there. So whether it's me and Lizzy, which is my cousin, or Paige and Lizzie, we have two people in the bakery on Wednesdays and they're prepping dough.

[Forrest]

Okay. Are you bringing kids with you or is that like your big work day? Like, it sounds like that's probably the big. The biggest day of the week.

[Lillian]

No, no, I would say the next day is the biggest. Which is the day that usually I work is Thursdays. But if I do come in on Wednesday, it's usually for like a two hour period just to help out with stuff. And I'll drop my kids off even either at my sister's house, Ellen, who lives on the property, or my mom's house, who also lives on the property. So I mentioned that they just built. So now there's two places on the property, which makes it nice that our kids can go to one of those places.

[Lisa]

That is nice.

[Lillian]

So, yeah, Wednesday, all the dough. And then on Thursday, which is usually the day I work, I take my kids and they stay at my mom's house, and we laminate all of our croissants and danishes, which means, you know, that's when you get the butter block, you encase it with dough, you run it through the sheeter, and you make all those folds of butter. So like, similar to puff pastry, but croissant is yeasted and danishes are yeasted dough. So they're like, you know, puffy and flaky.

[Forrest]

I still want that cheater. I'm like, still, I was sold on it last time and I never did get it. And I'm like, I still want that cheater.

[Lillian]

Well, so I've been really trying to find a at home sheeter because I get a lot of people asking me, people who bake at home, like, you know, how do you. Where'd you get your sheeter? And you can't really have a commercial sheeter if you are in the home.

[Forrest]

Right, okay.

[Lillian]

But I've been trying to find some home sheeters. I don't want to recommend any yet because I haven't really gotten my hands on them and they are quite an investment. But I did talk to a home baker yesterday. I actually reached out to her because she does really good lamination. It's homemade period by period. Kate.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

And she does great pan of chocolate. And she told me she does a laminating method where you don't have a butter block. You instead put butter directly on and do the folds like that.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

But she really, her croissants look amazing. So if you're a home baker wanting to laminate, I would look into that method and I'll try to find it and.

[Forrest]

Okay. Yeah, if you do, we'll link it below.

[Lillian]

Yeah, I should have had that. I just forgot. But that's a really great way to get into laminating. And she's this baker that I talked to, Kate. She's had great success with offering laminated goods because that's really something you can't. Lots of people don't want to make at home.

[Forrest]

Oh, yeah. It's the one thing, like, I love it, but like, I can, I can get like bread and bagels on the table, like no problem. But like croissants and danishes, I love them. Like, we go to the farmer's market, there's a sourdough booth there. And I always get something laminated because it's just so much harder to make at home.

[Lillian]

Yeah, you gotta come. You gotta come to our bakery.

[Forrest]

I know. I do need to come to your bakery.

[Lillian]

I want you to, because I. That's my favorite. Like, before we started, I dreamed of being able to make croissants. And I thought it'll never happen. And now every weekend I go in and there's like fresh meat croissants. This is my dream life. I know I'm getting distracted. I'm trying to think of what our question.

[Forrest]

Okay. You were talking about Thursday is your like big work day. So, like you're on.

[Lillian]

Yes.

[Forrest]

Mom duty. Pretty much. Monday, Tuesday, when or Sunday? Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Work Thursday. And then that's the day that you.

[Lillian]

Do all of your lamination and then rolling. We do, we do a lot of cinnamon rolls. Probably like 15 pans.

[Forrest]

And there's that your most popular thing?

[Lillian]

Yes, it's one of our most popular things. I'd say our most popular items are jumbo cinnamon rolls, cream filled croissants, danishes, and then focaccia. Breakfast sandwiches are a really big one. Yeah. So we make focaccia and then we cut it up and split it in half and then fill it with like an egg souffle, bacon, cheese, and an aioli. And then we have another one that's like a sugared sweet focaccia filled with egg souffle, sausage and a maple butter.

[Forrest]

Oh, my word. So do people buy this cold and then they heat it? No.

[Lillian]

Yeah, so that's, that's what we like the most about them is we have a proofer, a commercial proofer. Do you know what that is?

[Forrest]

Like, yeah, I can imagine. It keeps it at like, what, around 100 degrees or something?

[Lillian]

It keeps it warm and humid. There's like a humidifier in there too. And then we actually can switch it to heating setting. So we proof all our baked goods. In the morning, we bake them and then we switch it to heating setting, which doesn't have any of the humidity. And then we wrap all of our sandwiches in tin foil and we stick them in the heater. And so when you get it, it's like melty and it's already warm.

[Forrest]

Oh, okay. So I think last time we talked about your model for figuring out how much to bring, because as you're talking about this, like, well, how many breakfast.

[Lillian]

Sandwiches do you bring?

[Forrest]

Because some people might have family in town and want to get several and sometimes maybe none. And so I'm curious how that works.

[Lillian]

Yeah, so we have a pre order system. And I know a lot of home bakers operate only on a pre order system because maybe you don't have a brick and mortar shop. You want people to come to your porch and pick up or your farm stand. So pre ordering is great. And I know there's a service called hot plate that a lot of home bakers use. I know Kate, that I mentioned before, she said she really likes it. I use square. We are on a bigger scale. Like, I have a checkout line every week. So square does provide me with like a modem for checking out and all that. So that's why we use square. But I know for smaller micro bakeries or home bakeries, they say hot plate is great. So if you wanted to check that out. But our pre order system is what we use to kind of gauge what kind of, what kind of amount of people we're going to get.

[Forrest]

Like demand you'll have.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

And it changes week to week. I mean, I'm sure it does a little bit, but pretty consistent, I'd say.

[Lillian]

Yeah, like for holidays especially. So now we kind of have an idea how many people. But definitely in the beginning like, if we got a lot of cinnamon rolls, like, let's say we got, you know, 50 orders for cinnamon rolls, and that's for a box. So 50 orders of a four pack of cinnamon rolls. We knew that 50 people would be going through our line no matter what, even if no one else came. So you want to make product that could, you know, fill 50 people's boxes. Now, we have a pretty consistent amount, but, like, Fourth of July this year, we were getting a ton of pre orders, so we suspected we were going to have a big day, and we ended up just having a huge crowd.

[Forrest]

Okay, what do people get on Fourth of July? Like, I'm trying to think of why people would get more baked goods on Fourth of July.

[Lillian]

That's the thing. You're always trying to be like, oh, for Easter.

[Forrest]

Trying to figure it all out.

[Lillian]

But the truth is, on holidays, it doesn't matter what holiday. If families coming in or if people are getting together, they just want to have something to bring, like, to the potluck or, you know, like, they'll get a dozen cookies or.

[Forrest]

Yeah. I mean, I went to two Fourth of July parties, so I guess you need something to bring for those. Yes.

[Lillian]

Or.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

Or you don't want to cook, like, because it's a holiday and you want to treat yourself, so you just go and you get breakfast for your family.

[Forrest]

Right.

[Lillian]

You know?

[Forrest]

Yeah.

[Lillian]

So it's just stuff like that. So it's not.

[Forrest]

And it actually fell on a day you were open. Like, it was actual 4th of July on a Friday, which probably makes a big difference. Yeah.

[Lillian]

No, that's exactly why. Because Fridays are new hours for us. We've had them for about, I don't know, maybe a year. We just added them because we're there anyway prepping. So we just kind of opened our doors and said, oh, we'll make coffee and put out what is already ready. Like, we bake some cinnamon rolls for that day, bake some Danish and then brownies and stuff like that. But then that Friday was just crazy. Which luckily we had prepared for it because our pre orders told us, like, you're probably going to have a busier day. So we made a lot, but we still ended up selling out. We ended up having to pull from items for Saturday and then remake everything that day for Saturday. So that was a specifically crazy holiday.

[Forrest]

Wow. Yeah, that was. So do you always make more than the pre orders, assuming you'll have lots of people who don't pre order?

[Lillian]

No.

[Forrest]

Okay. Double.

[Lillian]

At least more than double.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

Like, we know, probably 20% of people are going to pre order. You know, like, we might have 10 boxes of cinnamon rolls, but we'll make. Oh, I don't even know. I know everything by pans. And I'm like, I don't know if I count them.

[Forrest]

Oh, how many pans?

[Lillian]

Yeah, I know we do, like, 15 pans of rolls, and there's like 36 rolls per pan, so I'm not gonna get into math, but it's a lot of rules.

[Forrest]

It's a lot of rules.

[Lillian]

Yeah. Like, we do a lot of product on for those days.

[Forrest]

I bet you do. And what's the. Like, how far do people come? Like, if somebody wanted to and they think, okay, I live in a small town, which I know you don't really. You live close to a large city. Like, how far are you from actual Columbus?

[Lillian]

Like, 45 minutes. Oh, but then we also live. We live near. I would consider it like a small town. Like, small town America sort of small town.

[Forrest]

Yeah.

[Lillian]

It's, like, growing. There's people that live there, there's other businesses there, but it's not a city.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

So we're lucky in that we live by a pretty big community. And also it's growing pretty quickly.

[Forrest]

Yeah. It'd be interesting to know, like, if I could find, like, what would be comparable here to gauge where you are, but that's basically impossible.

[Lillian]

Yeah, but we get a lot of, like. Like, there's Columbus and then there's little cities like Dublin, Hilliard. Those areas are near it. And we get a lot of people from there, too. So people drive. I'd say most of our customers drive.

[Forrest]

Do they?

[Lillian]

Half an hour.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

Or more. But, like, people who live in the. We also get a lot of people from, like, rural areas around us, too. So it's a good combination of, like, locals who live within 10 minutes and then also people who are coming out for, like, a special trip.

[Forrest]

Yes. You know, so when you started this, did you fear that living in a small town, you weren't going to have enough orders, or did you figure that people would come from all over to get your stuff?

[Lillian]

No, definitely. Definitely didn't think that. I think if someone was like. Like, if I went to an investor in the beginning and said, like, I'm gonna open a bakery in a barn on my family farm outside of town, they'd be like, like, that's really cute. No, I think they'd be like, nobody's gonna come out to a barn to buy baked goods. But. Yeah, but it's. I mean, One, it's not like a barn. You know, animals never lived in there. Like when it was built, it was created to have a commercial kitchen in it.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

But we were worried definitely that we weren't going to get people who wanted to drive out to us. And so in the beginning it was really just pre order. So we just offered cinnamon rolls and we kind of just thought of it as like a porch pickup where people could come, right?

[Forrest]

Yes.

[Lillian]

And honestly that's a great business model, people. I mean if you sell 30 boxes of cinnamon rolls, that's a good profit. Like if each week you just sold 30 boxes, that'd be great. But when we did our first pop up sale, which was when we made extra product and offered it to the public and advertised it, we were just shocked by how many people came.

[Forrest]

And yes, and we talked about this a ton last time. But people are looking for something to do. We have a, like a couple things that I can think of. Kind of cutesy. And when I say in my area, I mean like within like 45 minute radius. Like, I don't mean like down the street and the crowds there because they'll do like a, like a Christmas market and then they'll do like a spring. I don't know, they do these little things and like when they announce something like that, you just realize how many ladies specifically are just looking for like a cute little place to go and get a coffee and like some big baked goods. Like they're all. We're at that point in history where that is like something we need and there's just really not many available.

[Lillian]

I think a lot of bakers, like, there's obviously people who are doing the porch pickups and starting those businesses. But I think a lot of people are intimidated by starting something. You know, especially with like high end bake goods. I think they're like, oh, people are gonna judge me. They're gonna think I'm trying to, you know, make these fancy pastries. And yeah, I'm just a baker from home. Like how could I ever make bakery worthy baked goods? But like every bakery started from a home baker. Like croissants in the beginning were made by loving people who wanted to create this beautiful, flaky pastry for their community. But now it almost has this connotation of being kind of like a pretentious baked good. Like it's too fancy for the common baker to make. Like just, I guess be willing to just try things and make things that excite your community and don't be worried that people are gonna be like, well, what do you know about baked goods? Like, if you have the good intentions of, like, I want to create something special that tastes amazing for my community, I just think you're in the right path, you're going in the right direction and to not be afraid of, like, just because the most famous bakers make it doesn't mean you can't also make it in your own home.

[Forrest]

Yeah. And then you mentioned something about, like, people thinking, I don't know if you, if you meant this, but, like, it's a premium product, right? Like, it's not like a loaf of bread from the store, like bunny bread or whatever. I don't, I think when I say bunny bread, people are always like, what's that? So I think it must be regional. But anyways, just like a dollar, you know, sliced bread from the store. And were you at all self conscious in the beginning about saying, okay, this is $10 for a, a boul. I don't really know what you charge, but I, I just, I've seen sourdough bread in my area. And it's, you know, with the work that goes into all these logistics, any business owner, like, one of the main things I see new business owners doing is not valuing their time appropriately and just being like, I just want to make money. And then you're like, no, you're really not making money. You could have got a job for.

[Lillian]

Better than that, Especially with sourdough. You know, I, I have a, I talk a lot about items that are good to sell because obviously my business is selling certain product. And a lot of people who do sourdough, I think, focus a lot on these sourdough loaves, which even selling sourdough for $10 a loaf, that's one product. That's $10. That's one. Maybe cast iron. Maybe that's three cast iron in the oven. You know, when you make, when you cinnamon rolls, you Maybe can fit 36 in one oven and sell them for $5 a cinnamon roll. Like, you gotta sell oven loads. And so even if you're pricing your sourdough accordingly, which, yes, is around $10 a loaf, which to me, I'm like, yeah, that's, that's a good amount. But you want, you want your profit margins to be like, profit margins don't just include what ingredients, they also include your time. And for a lot of sour bakers, doing it in bulk, even though it's easy maybe to do sourdough and work it into your home life, to do it in bulk, it's very time sensitive. Like you have to be able to not overproof it. You got to have space for the bowls to sit in the fridge. It's just right. I recommend to anyone who's wanting to do a sourdough based bakery, definitely do your sourdough loaves, but make sure to have other products for your customers like cinnamon rolls, cookies, brownies, items that you can make easily in bulk and that maybe make a little bit more per item. And that's really going to be what gets gives you good profit. So people are looking for sourdough bread right now. It's almost a marketing tool to offer sourdough bread. People see sourdough bread and they'll come to your bakery. So definitely offer the sourdough bread, but make sure you have plenty of other product because once they come to you, they're probably going to buy something else. So make sure that you have good, high quality other items and that's really what's going to make you a good amount of money and, and make your business sustainable.

[Forrest]

Yeah, that makes sense. I hadn't thought about like your oven capacity and just thinking, okay, this makes $60 out of my oven. This makes $30 out of my oven.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

So with all that in mind, how did you come up with the menu that you have today? I'm sure there's lots of things you put on it. Then you're like, nope, that worth it?

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

And then there's things that you've added that have been like, oh, well, that was the way to go.

[Lillian]

Yeah. Yeah. One I always talk about is like cookies. So cookies maybe don't sell great. Just a plain cookie or even a jumbo sized cookie, they sell. Okay. But as soon as we put buttercream in between two cookies and sold it, like all of a sudden it goes from being something you can make at home to being like a decadent bakery item or even taking like a standard size muffin and going from standard size to jumbo. You've taken an item that looks maybe pretty typical you can get from the grocery and turned it into something decadent.

[Forrest]

So, yes.

[Lillian]

And then other things like cinnamon rolls, they just were received really well from the community. And so we went with it. You know, people love our c. People love cinnamon rolls.

[Forrest]

They do, yeah.

[Lillian]

And why are we surprised? Like, I always see people on Facebook groups like, like, people are crazily buying my cinnamon rolls. I'm like, yeah, people love cinnamon rolls. This is, this is.

[Forrest]

Yeah, it's a tried and true method. If you're gonna Start, just start with cinnamon rolls because everybody apparently.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

Loves them.

[Lillian]

Hey, but there's a lot to them. You know, you gotta, you gotta look to, you wanna, you wanna make sure you're selling high quality products. You know, I don't suggest just like going with the first recipe. Try, definitely like, try different methods, try different icings, and make sure that you should always be trying to make the best cinnamon roll anyone's ever had. That's what I would suggest. And true.

[Forrest]

Yeah. It's got to be good.

[Lillian]

Yeah. Because, you know, I think there's enough business out there, like to not be, don't be afraid if another baker enters your community. I think there's enough people who are looking for baked goods. But the real way that you'll thrive is if you're really trying to be the best baker you can be and put out the best product. And I don't know, I get a lot of joy from. No, like, I really enjoy eating all of our items. And when people come through the line and pick something, I'm always just like, oh, I think they're gonna enjoy that so much. And that's like what I look forward to. And I try to feel that way about or I do feel that way about each item. So I never want to put an item out there that I don't feel confident is the best item.

[Forrest]

Yeah. And I'm sure you've made adjustments over the years, like you had it one way and then you're like, oh, I tried this at home and I made it a little bit better. So I'll try incorporating that.

[Lillian]

Yeah. And it's really transformed my home baking life too. Just learning, like working with so much dough and understanding, like, what makes or break dough, it's made me understand home baking a lot more, which has just made it enjoyable to like go home and have a more relaxing place to bake.

[Lisa]

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[Forrest]

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[Forrest]

Not that I'm ever full glam, but.

[Lisa]

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[Forrest]

Farmhouse so have you started incorporating whole grains in the items you sell or do you just reserve that mostly for your home baking now?

[Lillian]

Yeah, so this is a question I have gotten before Because I do have a blog that talks about fresh milled grains, and I teach a class on fresh mold grains. But we don't offer fresh milled grains at our bakery. And I think this can be something that intimidates a lot of people who, who like to use fresh mold grains at home, but also love to bake and maybe want to sell something. The truth is, it's very hard to have good profit margins when you're using freshman flour, especially because to get enough to sell, it's very hard to mill that amount of flour unless you get a large fresh. Yeah. And certain items that we bake, like Danishes and croissants historically, were not made with fresh bone grains. Even back. Yeah, you know, they were being heavily sifted, that flour. So if you're looking, you know, to find a flour to make those and you want it to be high quality, just make sure you're looking for unbleached, unbromated. I think, you know, we're learning those. Those words now, but at home, because I do love to bake and my child is obsessed with bread. Like, all my kids want to eat is bread. I find it very comforting that I can use fresh milled flour and know that they're getting nutrients even though their diet is like 90% bread.

[Forrest]

Right, right.

[Lillian]

I bake with fresh milk flour out of the joy of using it, not the fear of white flour. Like, I'm not afraid of white flour. I. I think it's a part of whole grains. You know, I mean, it's just the sifted version, and I think it has its place in baking, and I think fresh one flour has its place. I love muffins with freshman flour. I think they make better muffins. I think they make better quick breads, pancakes, waffles. I made lemon bars with it. So good. But then there's other items that I just think the addition and the innovation of commercially sifted flour has improved the quality of a baked good.

[Forrest]

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Lillian]

It's undeniable. I want my kids to. To grow up and, and think fondly back on my baking. Like, oh, she made the best whole grain bread, even though I added a cup of white flour to it. You know, I. That's preferable to me than them being like, I can't wait to get out of this house so I can buy white bread.

[Forrest]

Good stuff.

[Lillian]

Like, I want them to be like, I love the whole grain stuff, even if it means I add a little bit of my white flour to it.

[Forrest]

So, yeah, I. I'm I'm kind of in that camp, too, because there. There's like, just today I made some bagels, and I did even six cups of freshly milled flour and only two cups of all purpose. It does just help it so much. And I'm like, I am willing to do that 25% in white flour just to make it so good. Like, those are good bagels. Like, I had a. My lunch today was bagel with cream cheese, with fresh tomato from the garden, avocado, bacon, and, like, that's, like, everything. Seasoning. Yes, exactly. Like, that's a good summer lunch. And they're not just like, yeah, they're good for whole grain. Like, they're legitimately.

[Lillian]

I know. You know, like, if it's. Versus, like, these bagels are okay. Versus these are the best bagels, and they also have fresh milk flour in them. Like, obviously, you want to choose the one where your kids are getting some of the nutrients instead of none of it.

[Forrest]

Yes, absolutely. Because that.

[Lillian]

Yeah. Like, I really do think things that don't require gluten development, which is why, you know, the white flour is. Adding all. The white flour holds most of the gluten. It holds most of the gluten development. So if you take. If you minimize the amount of white flour, you're just not going to get the opportunity to create that gluten development. Whereas if you supplement it with. Some people use vital wheat gluten. I don't know if you. If you've ever used that.

[Forrest]

I have been hearing about this lately. People are like, you need to add vital wheat gluten. Which I haven't looked into it enough to know, like, if there's any downsides to that, rather than just adding, like, 25% white flour instead.

[Lillian]

That's what I've kind of found is, like, it's also a processed item. Vital wheat glue in it.

[Forrest]

Yes. Yeah.

[Lillian]

You can either add the vital wheat gluten.

[Forrest]

You're kind of using that to get what you already intuitively realize that you're getting when you're baking. You're like, this is just not the same. But when I add a little bit, I get this. We figured it out. Like, yes, you need that wheat gluten in there. Whereas, like, you're saying things like cookies and scones and muffins. They're just as good with whole grain. You don't have to add any white flour.

[Lillian]

Yeah, right. Yeah. And I think that's what I've learned through baking so much at the bakery is, like, I think about recipes that I make in the baker. I'm like, I bet this would be so good with the flavors of freshman flour. Or I bet this would be extra crumbly and flaky if I just use freshmen flour. Like, there's definitely things that like pie crusts. I don't know if you make pie crust very often, but like, we eat a lot of quiche for, for dinners and stuff. And that is such an easy recipe to have fresh with fresh milk flour. And we actually on our farm grow soft white wheat berries. And for so long.

[Lisa]

Do you?

[Lillian]

Yeah, for so long we didn't use them because my mom always used hard white because she primarily was making bread, but because I.

[Forrest]

Right. And so then you just use it for everything.

[Lillian]

She just used it for everything. She bought it locally and she would just, just have like a five gallon tub of hard white.

[Forrest]

Yep, that was me in the beginning. Like, just, just hard white wheat. Use it for everything. But soft white, it actually even is so much better.

[Lillian]

I love it. I. I make a lot of biscuits and a lot of biscuits, a lot of pancakes, a lot of waffles and a lot of muffins. And so I was like, I'm gonna give soft wheat a try. And now it's. It's my favorite type to use mostly because that's just what I'm making. I think it's milder.

[Forrest]

Okay. So flavor. Do you have any tips? Because I know that people, people are really interested right now, and I know we're mostly talking about, like, business and micro bakeries, but hey, we're on the subject. So do you have any tips for substituting soft white, freshly milled flour for just an ordinary recipe that isn't designed to be whole grain?

[Lillian]

Yeah. So I think one, understanding gluten development gives you a head start when you're switching over from regular flour to fresh milled. So just know glute development is what creates structure within your baked goods. If you have too much gluten development in a scone, you're going to end up with a chewy, dense scone. If you don't have enough in a bread loaf, it's going to be a crumbly bread loaf that doesn't have any elasticity.

[Forrest]

Okay. Yes.

[Lillian]

So if you're picking the right recipes, like specifically for, let's say I'm making biscuits and you don't want your biscuit to be like bread. You want it to be flaky and kind of crumbly.

[Forrest]

Yes.

[Lillian]

I would gravitate more towards those kinds of recipes and Then also I do use an 120 gram weight. So I weigh my berries.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

And then I grind them. I don't know if you do. Oh, okay, that has changed.

[Forrest]

Well, weighing the berries, I have started. I don't weigh the berries, which, that would be smart because then you know exactly what you're getting because I just feed the starter with the rest of it. But I, I do in the last like several weeks weigh the amount. So if I have a recipe that calls for three cups of flour, I, I actually do 140 just because I don't do spoon and level. So I've just like, I just, that's what's in my head. But so if I have a recipe that calls for three cups of all purpose flour for say cookies, I will take 140 times three and weigh it because I'm sure like you realize, and it took me forever to realize that when you put soft white wheat through a mill, it comes out so fluffy. If you take a cup of it and you weigh it, it's like 80 grams. Like it's, it's like nowhere near a cup.

[Lillian]

Exactly. And that's why with the berries too and you saying you use your extra to just feed your starter. But for me, I just didn't, I didn't like that every time I had to like mill it and then measure it and then put it in there. So I just measure all my berries and then I can mill it right into my recipe.

[Forrest]

Oh, that's smart.

[Lillian]

It has made it like to me for some reason it just clicked and it made it a lot easier to just, you know, do that in my daily life.

[Forrest]

Yeah.

[Lillian]

And I always use the 120 grams. And that has just worked for me so far. And that's probably just coming from the recipes I've always used. I've used a 120 gram cup.

[Forrest]

Yeah, well, and a lot of bloggers are using 120 as their metric because it usually does call for like spoon and level. My blog, I had to be difficult and in the beginning realized that, oh, I don't ever spoon and level. And so I was just like taking a cup and measuring it and realizing that I always come up with 140. So when I'm making a recipe from my own own website, I just will do 140. And I do find that like the cookies, for some reason when I do 120 cup for cup, they're, they always spread out. And so yeah, if I'm using like somebody else's cookie recipe, like I Have some certain cookie I want to use, but. Well, whatever works for you. I think the key is knowing about the weight.

[Lillian]

Yeah. Cookies. There's so many good tips out there for cookies, specifically, like freezing your cookie dough already before, like, scoop it onto.

[Forrest]

A pan that cs that would help.

[Lillian]

Or even just putting in the fridge for like, an extended period of time. And also.

[Forrest]

Yes, yes. And I even say that on my blog. And then don't do it.

[Lillian]

I know, because sometimes you just want cookies. Like, right now.

[Forrest]

You want them now. Like, I only ever make cookies because we want cookies for dessert, and it's already 5:30.

[Lillian]

Well, you should do with your daughters, though, is like, like make a big batch of cookie dough and scoop it onto a tray, freeze it, and then, like, have a little tub of, like, cookie scoops, and then you can just get it.

[Lisa]

That would be smart.

[Lillian]

That's nice. Oh, but the other thing I was gonna say about cookies is that when you mill your flour, it comes out so warm that sometimes when you mix it with the. The butter and the sugar, it can.

[Forrest]

Kind of melt the butter.

[Lillian]

And you don't really want your butter to be melted in your cookies. You want it to be creamed and still a little bit cold or room temperature. That just helps it to keep its structure.

[Forrest]

Okay. Yeah, that could be the reason. Is just. It all stems back to me wanting to make cookies right this second. Yeah, that's what it all stems back to.

[Lillian]

That's a good tip for pie crust too, is chilling your. Chilling your flour because it is warm.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

Even just in the fridge for like, 15 minutes.

[Forrest]

Yes, that. That helps a ton. I mean, if you're in a huge hurry, do a little extra flour, but if you want a really good product, chill it and do the appropriate amount of flour.

[Lillian]

Yeah.

[Forrest]

Spoken from a baker. She's like, no, no, this is science. Okay.

[Lillian]

It just worked for me getting used to. Trying to get used to the fresh bone greens because my. My son is a big cookie eater. He loves cookies and muffins. So.

[Forrest]

Yeah. Yeah. And you can get away with it. Like the other night with my kids, like, my. My daughter usually is the baker, and she just hadn't been baking in a long time. And I'm like, they wanted dessert. They really wanted dessert. And I was like, okay, I'll make cookies. Because she wasn't even home that night, and nobody said a word. Like, what are these? Some healthy cookies. Like, they still just. They're all whole grain and nobody cares. Like, they can't tell, you know, it's still Just so delicious. And so it's one of those places where if you're intimidated by whole grain baking, don't start with bread. That's. That's the part that's hard. But, like, yeah, yeah.

[Lillian]

Because my sister, anything else, you know, she can make a. She can make a good whole grain loaf. But if you're someone who doesn't spend a lot of time making sourdough, like, even if you make one loaf a week sourdough, the concepts can change week to week. The temperature of your house, the humidity in the air. It just can be difficult to just start right away doing 100% whole week sourdough loaf.

[Forrest]

Like, well, and I feel like I'm fairly good because at baking, because I bake so much and still, like, a sourdough boule that's whole grain 100 is not the same. It's just not.

[Lillian]

She's had, like, one day where it was, like, the most beautiful. But even sometimes, you know, I would never. I would probably never attempt that. Like, I'm not that great with sourdough. But I did do a crusty artisan loaf with whole grains with yeast. And I will say that was definitely easier. It was the same concept of a sourdough. The yeast just kind of. You know, it can really get through kind of the toughness of whole grains. So if you are wanting, like, a crunchy artisan loaf and you're having trouble with maybe a sourdough one, that sometimes just doing a yeasted artisan loaf with whole grains can be an easier option. I know sometimes people forget that, like, you can have a crusty loaf that isn't sourdough.

[Forrest]

I never even remembered that. Yeah, I know. We never have yeast sitting around.

[Lillian]

I know.

[Forrest]

I'm a big yeast proponent.

[Lillian]

I love using instant yeast.

[Forrest]

Well, I think one of the issues that happens with whole grain sourdough bread is that sometimes it takes a long, longer time to ferment, and then it gets a little, like, the flavor can get too sour. And so I always have to accelerate it by putting it somewhere really, really warm. Otherwise, it's just way too sour. Anyways, okay, so on your website and your YouTube channel, which I'm not sure if you had the YouTube channel last time we chatted.

[Lillian]

I really just recently started, like, I. I first wanted to have videos to supplement my blog posts, you know, like, recipe videos. And then I did A Day in the Life, and people seem to really like that. So I'm like, okay, I'll do. And so I've been doing week in the lives just when I can. So so far I do one every two weeks.

[Forrest]

Okay.

[Lillian]

Just because I'm, I'm the one, you know, filming and editing and so it's just overwhelming to me to do it every week. So I've just been doing one every two weeks for the past couple weeks. But people seem to like that. I had one student tell me, she like brought a notepad and I told her, oh, you don't need to take notes during classes because I put everything on the blog. And she said, you say so many things that you don't know about that were helpful. So I, I take notes and I was like, I bet if I filmed things it would remind me like yes.

[Forrest]

It, it gives that, that hands on application that you don't even think about. That happened like while you're doing something.

[Lillian]

Like things I do naturally just out of habit. And so now I just feel like it's given me a better understanding of things that help us in the bakery and tips to give other bakers.

[Forrest]

Yes. So for those who want to start a micro bakery, because I think there's a huge movement, like a local food movement that's been going on for a while, but it's still definitely going strong and it's by no means oversaturated. Like I, I saw a sign out the other day driving where it said sourdough bread. But like I don't know of a place other than like a random little sign, you know, like, I don't, there's like no place that's we could just go to. And so I think that's the case in a lot of small towns. And so I think there's huge opportunity for a stay at home mom to earn a little extra money if that's something that she's needing. And your YouTube channel, especially with like the Week in the Life, really shows the behind the scenes of that. So that could be very helpful. What, what is, is it called the flower Barn then on YouTube?

[Lillian]

Homestead. That's kind of what we call all of our like, like our blog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The, the social is the flower barn though. So Instagram, Facebook. I used to do a flower barn homestead specific Instagram and then I just switched it to being combined with my business just because I felt like they were so intertwined that just made sense to have them both be on there. So if you wanted to follow me on Instagram, it's, it's the flower barn.

[Forrest]

Awesome. Well, we will leave links down below if you're intrigued. 1. Check out our last episode because I think we went more into, like, how your business is actually structured. And then today we're talking more about, well, all kinds of stuff. I was gonna say we talked a ton about work, life balance and all this. Like, we kind of did, but. But we mostly didn't. So check out the other episode and then also check out your YouTube channel, which I think just seeing how it applies on a weekly basis, as a mom having a bakery is very helpful. So yeah, we will leave links to that below. Thank you so much for joining me again.

[Lillian]

Thank you.

[Lisa]

Thanks as always, for listening to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. My husband Luke and I and our.

[Forrest]

Eight kids work together side by side.

[Lisa]

On our little homestead and use our blog, podcast and YouTube channel to reach other homemakers, home cooks and home setters with practical recipes and daily family life. For everyday sourdough recipes, make sure to check out our blog, farmhouse.com and to dig deeper, we do also offer a course called Simple Sourdough over at Bitvit Ly Forward slash Farmhouse Sourdough Course. That's all one word. Bit Ly Farmhouse Sourdough Course.

[Forrest]

If you're looking to learn how we.

[Lisa]

Earn an income online, check out my YouTube course at bit ly farmhouseyoutubecourse.

[Lillian]

All one word. Sam.