← Simple Farmhouse Life
Simple Farmhouse Life
305. Turn Land Into Home: Design Outdoor Spaces You Actually Want to Be In | Tessa Pinner
01:17:59
What we’ve learned from designing raw land that works in any outdoor space
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A
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B
Farmhouse but I think somewhere to sit and somewhere to eat are probably the two things of like what are you going to want to go do outside, somewhere to sit and somewhere to eat. Because if you can sit and watch your kids play, that's a win. I don't know how you are, but I rarely just like sit to sit. But I will sit to eat and I will sit sometimes to watch my kids. I think if, if you don't know where to start with, okay, what do I want to focus on? First? I would say sitting and eating. Maybe especially eating because to do that.
- [01:37]
A
My name is Lisa, mother of eight and creator of the blog and YouTube channel Farmhouse on Boone. On this podcast I like to talk about simplifying your life so you can live out your priorities. I help you learn how to cook from scratch and decorate on a budget through this podcast and my courses Simple Sourdough and the Simple Sewing Series. I also help people reach their goals from home through my business course YouTube Success Academy. I will leave links to these resources in the show notes in description box below. Now let's get into the show.
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B
Foreign.
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A
Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. As many of you know, we are currently in the process of building our new home on a farm we purchased a little over, well, probably about a year and a half ago now. And with that comes a lot of decisions now, not just paint colors and cabinet colors, but the very infrastructure of buying raw land, where we put the driveway and how the house was oriented and the garage and all of these things and pieces. And we're thinking through gardens and how to make this raw land that has no, you know, modern history associated with it, have a sense of place and time with the outdoor spaces. And I couldn't think of a better guest to bring on to talk about creating that story with your home, not only if you bought raw land in your building, but also if you just have a home in a suburban lot or maybe a historic home that doesn't have a lot of the original outside details left, then Tessa Pinner from Garden Studio with Tessa pinner over on YouTube. She also has the Garden Gab podcast. She does client work where she actually works with people to figure out how to lay out their gardens and create moments on properties where you can actually enjoy them and use them. But she also teaches people via her YouTube channel and her podcast. We had a really fun chat that I want to invite you to listen to. All right, editing Lisa, coming here from the future, I want to really quick tell you all about a giveaway that we're starting today. So I had to jump on this episode and just tell you because it starts today, it runs for a week. So it runs until next Tuesday, September 9th. I have a recipe on my website, so if you go to farmhouseonboone.com the very top recipe is my beginner sourdough bread recipe and I am running a giveaway. So if you leave a five star review, we're keeping a spreadsheet with all the people who leave a five star review. And real quick, if you left a five star review when I asked for one on Instagram a few weeks back, you're going to get entered in it as well. Because I did that and then decided to run this giveaway. So I didn't want to leave you all out. So if you already left a review because you saw it on my Instagram, great. But but if you haven't yet and you want to enter the giveaway for a $500Amazon gift card, which I was thinking you could put that towards a grain mill if you already have one, maybe some other baking supplies or just whatever you want. But that's a suggestion because you might be wanting to get into bread baking, but if I've helped you at all learn how to make sourdough bread or sourdough in general, heading over to that beginner recipe, leaving a five star review with your name and email will enter you into the giveaway. We'll randomly select a winner next Tuesday, September 9th. Either way, it would be so helpful. I'd really appreciate it even if you don't win the giveaway, just to have that review and feedback on that. That main sourdough recipe that I use all the time that many of you love in your own kitchen. I put that out on Instagram a few weeks back and I was so grateful for how many of you went right over, left a comment, a five star review and wanted to fill you all in on this giveaway. If you're a podcast listener only and you didn't hear about it anywhere else, make sure to head over to farmhouse on boone.com click on that beginner sourdough bread recipe, leave a review and you'll be entered to win. Well, it's nice to finally chat with you, Tessa. I was going to say in real life, but this is more about as real life as we can do right now. Mostly we've been communicating through email and we thought, you and I both thought this would make a really fascinating podcast episode. Basically taking raw land and giving it a sense of history in place by landscape design. Because this is obviously a very relevant current concern for me because we did buy basically just like a wide open field that we needed to put structures on, put a lot of infrastructure. As far as all of the landscaping, you have a presence over on YouTube where you talk about a lot of this stuff and gardening. And so the two, the two of us have put our heads together a bit when in regards to my property. But I also want to just talk about properties in general and just because if you're not building and you're not in a wide open field, there's still a lot of brainstorming to be done. So I'm thinking about my last place where we really didn't inherit any landscaping. There wasn't like a beautiful garden with a picket fence or any things that come back year after year. And so still it was just like a house on a hill. There wasn't, you know, there wasn't this whole like I, I like when there's moments throughout the yard like there's okay, there's this little place where maybe people will gather. And it's interesting to me how, but much differently you use a space when it's been designed. So it's not just aesthetics, it's. It's actually how you use and enjoy the space. So anyways, long rambly intro. But let's start with you introducing yourself and your channel and what you help people do.
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B
Yeah. So I'm Tessa Pinner. I'm based in upstate South Carolina. So a little bit different of a zone than Lisa, but some similarities, for sure. And I do garden design consulting. And then as Lisa said, I have a YouTube channel, Garden Studio with Tessa Pinner. Just my name, if you search for that. And I did that just to basically reach a few more people with some of the things that I've learned in my professional work. And I feel like a lot of us, you know, can't maybe hire a designer. But there are a lot of principles and things to be shared and learned and even overarching ideas. Like this one is sort of a big idea. How do you design something that has a sense of place and really makes you feel something? And that applies to anywhere, you know, not just somebody right in my area that I could be meeting with and helping. So I sort of like that double pronged approach of getting to meet with clients and doing direct work with design. And then also, of course, course, working in my own garden, which is like a laboratory, because sometimes I'll say, do this, not that, only because I've done it, you know, and so there are certain things, you know, know it to grow it or grow it to know it. That's the way it goes. Grow it to know it. So it's. It's kind of a multi pronged thing for me.
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A
Yeah, well. And I think so many people think of landscaping as impractical and growing vegetables and fruits and, you know, food as practical. And sometimes I find this too, with home design. There's a disconnect there to where it's almost seen as such a frivolous thing. Like, why do you even care? Like, I've seen certain people say things like, well, but I already, you know, if I have it like this, well, there's no sense to change it. And I push back on that because to me, beauty and form is very practical because it literally makes you enjoy your life better. And I think there's. I think that I always say, well, I'm, you know, very motivated by aesthetics, but I think everybody probably is. It is just maybe don't realize it.
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B
Yes.
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A
Because they don't necessarily have an eye for it or, you know, it's not something they've really noticed over the years. But then when they're somewhere where it has it, it's like, wow, I love being here and what's the reason for this? Yeah, right.
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B
Yeah. It's how a Space affects you. And I think there are so many similarities with interiors and designing everything that you're doing and all that mental sweat that you're putting into the house and how you're going to use those spaces. There is a lot of similarities with how you think about your outdoor spaces. There's kind of this idea of, you know, you have garden rooms, or it doesn't necessarily mean they have walls. I mean, they could have walls, they could have hedges, they could have brick walls. But more. More often than not, the idea of a garden room is like the thing you do in this space. So it could be like you're dining outdoors or your edible kitchen garden outdoors, or the fire pit, that place that you gather and, you know, you have big gatherings with church or your youth group or your family, and providing places to live outside and venues for experience. I think those are, you know, you. You have a phenomenal view, and what are you going to do? You're going to either go on a walk around, or you're going to sit on your porch and look at it. But like, to pull you out into the garden to give you things to do. I think that is the role of designing these specific spaces with intention, because then you open up a chance for yourself to live and enjoy those that you wouldn't have had otherwise.
- [10:58]
A
Yeah, I think I learned this on a very, very small scale. At our last place, we had this door that just. It went out from basically the mudroom to the garage. And that's pretty much all we do is just go out that door and then, you know, come in that door. It was kind of our main door, even though it was the back door. And then one time, Luke and I decided, okay, let's make a little gravel patio area. And then we put some string lights out there, and we put some seating and a few little. Just plants. It was no big deal. But all of a sudden, we were in that space constantly. And so I think it's interesting because we mostly neglect that. Like, we think about the house, we think about the rooms, we think about the layout and how we'll use it. I think pretty much everybody does that when they think about a house, but then the outside is just a completely neglected area. And it doesn't have to even be like a big farm or some place with a view with mountains or a lake.
- [11:58]
B
Most of us don't have that.
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A
Yeah, no, no. Most people don't have that to feel really useful. And I'm thinking about some places that I've been where we've Enjoyed the outside time there so much, and it really just was because it was set up for it. So you're actually reclaiming something that you didn't have before with space you already have. And it doesn't have to be a costly or, you know, a very fancy thing either.
- [12:25]
B
Yeah, no, I agree with you. I think people think about, well, I have to have curb appeal, you know, because when I go to sell this house, that's what's. That's the role of landscaping. And I think that is a impoverished view as far as. Well, maybe some people really don't enjoy being outside, but if you are a person who likes to be outside, I actually think your own enjoyment. And like you said, it transformed a pretty simple change. Transformed a space that you would just walk through. Like a throwaway space.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yes. And, you know, if you think of, like, a Charleston garden or a Charleston house, super tall, skinny, these teeny, teeny little garden strips on either side, and those are some of the most delightful space. It's, like, not about the space, I guess, is what I'm saying. It's not about the size. It doesn't need to be just this enormous thing.
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A
No.
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B
To be really useful.
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A
Harder. I think, the more enormous it is. You have to create some boundaries. Like, how can we get a wall here? Is it going to be because there's another structure? Is it going to be because you put, like you said, a hedge or some kind of raised bed when it's just a wide open field? It's actually significantly harder to create these cozy little outdoor areas.
- [13:37]
B
That is so true. There's probably. You've heard this as far as the theories of architecture, but you have enclosure and then opening, and I might not be saying that right. But this idea of, like, you want to be held in a space, and then you want it to open.
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A
So.
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B
So you have the cozy nook that, like, maybe is the place you want to go read. And then you have the front porch, which is the place. Or the big open kitchen, you know, the place that you want to have more spaciousness in the house, and those have different feelings and different functions. But, yes, I think if you sometimes. And this comes into the conversation with the raw land, like, the more nothingness you have, the. The harder it can be because you don't have those things to bump against and say, well, you know, there's a house right there, so what are we going to do? It's like, well, you could do anything, and then where do you start?
- [14:26]
A
And you need to do a lot, like the bigger the space, the more you have everything because you actually need a lot of pieces to make that cozy, you know?
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B
Yes.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yes, for sure.
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A
With our last place, it was smaller and it was up on a hill. So like even though it was seven acres, kind of the top of the hill before it would start to go down, probably was only like two or three. And there was a barn, a cottage, the farmhouse. And so we just added. And I don't feel at all like we did it perfectly, but we added like kind of areas in the bigger spots. But it wasn't hard to fill it out as much as if you're like sometimes they, they have lots, like just a wide open lot around here. At least they do. That's like six acres. And it's just a flat. Six acres. And I've seen people just put a house there and take like an aerial view to sell it and I'm like, ugh, sorry, but it just looks so bad. Like you gotta put some, I don't know what, like some kind of structure.
- [15:27]
B
I know. It's like you've done the monopoly thing where you've just like, you know, plopped your little puzzle piece down on this flat. They actually do that here too. And I think it's. I think they do it everywhere because maybe, maybe it's the people spend all the effort on the house or they just don't think when they are approaching a piece of land like, well, it needs to be cleared, so let's clear it. Well, you don't necessarily need six clear acres if you're not doing full scale farming. So if you have a wooded site, and I saw a question kind of about this a little bit in the, in the questions, but if you have woods and trees and things existing, you, you want to protect those a lot of times if you can, because you can't get it back once you've, you know, not really in your lifetime, not.
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A
Not to the extent you want it to be.
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B
Sure, yeah, exactly.
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A
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- [20:21]
B
Yes, that, that's true. I mean and it's kind of like that same if you're building a house, you get to just set it all versus if you come into a renovation and you go well we have to work around this and the chimney's already here and there's this weird other thing that would be too expensive to move. So there's definitely that same thing with landscape. But it can make your job easier because one of the overwhelming things when you can do anything is just knowing, you know, where are we starting? And so the constraints help you, they really can help you.
- [20:55]
A
Yeah, it's definitely a less overwhelming thing. I've learned because of basically like the last three houses we've lived in have all been 100 year old houses that have mature trees that already have some form of landscaping or buildings and structure and then going to something that's just wide open and I'm like ah, how do we even decide this stuff?
- [21:15]
B
Yeah, I mean I think you've done a lot of the hard work already in the. Where does the house go on the site? I know you thought hard about that. And then what's the relationship between these big permanent things like the, the barn structure, a garage structure, a pool structure, the house. These kind of make this. They have A conversation, you know, with each other and how you're going to live between those. And then automatically you have a footprint with like these things on it. And then everything between there is automatically your, your, your most zone of use. So I think one thing that's helpful to think about is this is actually a permaculture concept where you have these zones close to your house and as it radiates outward, you get less and less picky or interventionist, you know, with what you're doing. So anything that's between, let's say it is a suburban lot. Like, I've got a connected garage, but then I have like a little garden building. And then I have another bigger garage sort of barn structure that's separate. So I think, okay, what are, you know, these spaces in between here? Maybe that's the zone. One of things that it's. It's. You've got this defined footprint. And then a little further out it's a little more relaxed and a little further out it's a little more relaxed till maybe it becomes wood woods. Or maybe one of those zones is pasture where it's like managed, you know, in your case, animals, bush hogging, whatever it is you do to manage it. But it's certainly not something you're touching all the time. So there's these, like, you do the most amount of work close to your house and then let it relax from there.
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A
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
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B
Which is true. Really, wherever you are, like even in the smallest property, that's. That's still true.
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A
Yeah. So in a real small property, what kind of things would be examples of the further out things? Maybe like fruit trees or stuff like that.
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B
Yeah, yeah, for sure. One thing that actually got me interested in gardening about 10 years ago, I was not really raised as a gardener with a whole lot of generational knowledge, you know, like our, maybe our grandmothers, great grandmothers. And in certain parts of the country there's more of that. I didn't have a lot of that, but it took moving to a property with fruit trees and I, you know, in the fall went. I think those are, are those apples? I think those are apples. And then, you know, I had to learn what is this that I'm dealing with and you know, try to prune them the right way. But they were just beautiful landscape trees. And yes, it could certainly be like, you know, an edible thing or it could just be you've got a more wild area or you leave it woods. If it's woods or it's, you know, you're not trying to plant a bunch of picky stuff. Maybe it is grass. You know that all you're doing is mowing. You know, it. It really does depend on the situation, which is why it's funny to see those Pinterest things come up, you know.
- [24:14]
A
Like, yeah, like, this would work, like, very few scenarios, but it's really pretty. And they're usually like an artistic rendition. You know, they're like, you know, when everybody was doing that, was it Beatrix Pot? Like, they were all like, it kind of looked like that. With a property, it's like, ooh. But then you walk outside and you're like, okay, we don't have this at all.
- [24:33]
B
Right. Or the expense to dig that pond for those.
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A
Yeah, there's a pond.
- [24:38]
B
Yeah. Is going to be pretty steep. So. Yeah, I think. I do think it's. It's site specific. But it's so fun to make a. To make a list. Like, I think if you're. If you're approaching a project, whether it's, you know, a house you're moving into or a house you're in or. Or raw land, kind of going at it from a vision standpoint and a practical standpoint. And there's stuff in each one of those, like the vision of. Of course. Make the wish list. You know, what is it that you want? All of the things. One thing that I encourage my clients to do is say, what are all the things you want to do outside? Because then you reverse engineer it and make spaces for those. Back to the idea of, like the garden rooms. So, like, if you want to cook outside, okay, how do you want to do that? Is it something very intensely resourced, like an outdoor kitchen? I usually say, most people don't need that. Put a grill, but make it a nice spot. Is it under a pavilion? You want shade. If it's five o' clock and you're grilling, you're gonna not grow because you're gonna be scorched. Right?
- [25:48]
A
Yeah.
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B
So there's. Just make the wish list. If you are really approaching from zero and I'd be curious to hear, like, what kind of path you guys took. But thinking about, like, what's the topography of the site is probably. And like the natural raw features. If there's a hill, you can't. You can't ignore the hill. If there's water, if there's a certain kind of soil, if there's a big forest that you either have to keep or clear, you know, it's all those things that you take. You take account of and then maybe you would want to survey. Depending if it's an open field and there's nothing there. You know, you don't need a survey to tell you. I mean you might depending on where exactly the property boundaries are and you need to be marked on site. But for you and thinking about it, you don't necessarily need a survey. But one, one thing to think about is, you know, where the house goes and how the approach to the house. And I just watched your video where the drone followed the driveway. That's lovely. Did you choose that or was that kind of how the.
- [26:56]
A
Well, I totally chose it. You chose it.
- [26:57]
B
There was good job.
- [26:58]
A
Four or five different viable options. And we did also have. Do you know Brent Hall? That does.
- [27:07]
B
I do now because you're talking about him. I went and watched a bunch of his stuff.
- [27:12]
A
So he actually did do a site visit for us before we started anything. Like when it was like you had to get back there on a side by side, you know. And he proposed something and we ended up having to go a little bit further up. But like it was basically what he had said. So he. We kind of had a lot of eyes on it. Like my dad put his input on it, Luke had his input. We had people who are actually going to do the work on it put their input.
- [27:40]
B
So that's so smart.
- [27:42]
A
There was tons of options. But yeah, I think we love what we chose. Like, we feel like it was a really, like it really suits the place. Brent's whole thing was instead of like. Because I think sometimes people might be tempted to just go straight up the middle of the field because it, you know, right up to the house. Well, one, I don't wanna do that because I want actual pasture with cattle in it. But two, he said you want like peaks and glimpses like as you're coming up so that you never see the whole thing until you're like there. And I liked that.
- [28:15]
B
Oh yeah, yeah. Well, that sense of reveal and you go through the trees and then it opens up. You have the closed and then the open. Uh huh. Yeah, it's that. It's that same thing. No, I think he, he advised you well and I think you did exactly the right thing because I, I saw that.
- [28:33]
A
Yay. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny with raw land like even that like I don't like. I'm glad you appreciate it, but I don't think people even realize how big of a decision that is.
- [28:42]
B
Sure.
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A
Okay, raw land. Now which way to the house? Like this Right, Totally. Well, if you were in suburbia, the.
- [28:53]
B
The driveway would really just go straight through it because there's no. No cows in the field, you know, so these winding drives, there was a purpose to them too, of like, they didn't have as much earth works equipment, you know, 100 years ago as they do now. It would have been much more expensive to say just like tunnel, you know, if it didn't make sense with the lay of the land.
- [29:13]
A
Yeah. You kind of have to just.
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B
You have to follow it. You have to use the land as your guide. And I think they were better at doing that a hundred years ago and more because they had to. A little bit more. Yes.
- [29:27]
A
Right. Yeah.
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B
The.
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A
Yeah, because now it's. It's easy. You can kind of cut a path wherever without being mindful of. Of the place and the land that you have. So. Yeah, and there were some challenges. Like, we had to put in a low water crossing for a spot that we didn't even really realize was a creek. It's not like the creek, but it's another. It becomes a creek really often. We've learned in the last year and a half that we've owned the place. But yeah, it's. But even that's charming, like, where it is and then it fills with water a lot of times, and it's just.
- [30:00]
B
That sounds fun, actually. Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's those kind of things that makes the experience again, like you said, 9 out of 10 people may not ever be able to pinpoint what it is. It'll just be, oh, wow, I feel a certain way. I can sense myself relaxing and I love going there.
- [30:19]
A
Yes.
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B
That's how most people will just feel based on what you've done.
- [30:24]
A
Well, and earlier you were saying, you know, some people aren't outside people, and I've always thought that too. Like, some people just aren't. And there are definitely people who are more outside people than other people. But I wonder if it is the amount like we're talking about creating these garden spaces and rooms, like you said, Is it more just like not being comfortable out there and making it to where you are comfortable? Everybody really would do well with some outside time. No matter what you say about yourself.
- [30:54]
B
I'm not an outside person. If you're comfortable, it's good for you. Yeah, no, I think that's a good point. And I think about the ideas of generosity and. And comfort, like you said in that aren't necessarily like wild nature. It's not. You know, you go on a hike, you don't expect to be made comfortable.
- [31:16]
A
Right, Exactly.
- [31:17]
B
You know. Yeah. It's kind of like, well, something's going to scratch you. Something's probably going to bite you. It'll be a great experience. You're going to get that benefit from being in nature. But it's not like necessarily a hospitable place.
- [31:30]
A
No.
- [31:31]
B
So how are we applying like a hospitable spirit to our outdoor spaces so that. Yet, like you said, maybe someone who's like, oh, I'm not going to go on a hike because, you know, that doesn't appeal to me. But will I sit by the fire? Will I sit at an outdoor table and hear the birds and the trees and get that benefit from being outside? Yes. I do think more people, if they put the work and kind of had the opportunity to experience a place like that, would want to be in it.
- [32:03]
A
Yeah. Because I can think of places where I would rather be outside. And I'm thinking this as somebody who has a lot of children, too, so I'm also obviously like, is it more fun to be with the kids inside or outside? And there are certain places where, you know, there's enough going on outside that it's just infinitely better to be outside with them. Then there's some places where it's like, well, let's just hunker down inside and it. Creating that space so that, that is your life where you can spend more time outside. I think it's important and it's, it's worth the effort and it doesn't mean you have to live rurally. Like, right now, we live right in town and there's still lots of outside time. Like, it took us a little bit to kind of figure that all out, and we did have to put some pieces in place as well. But there's, you know, it's a small lot in town and there's still ample time where you want to be outside.
- [33:02]
B
Yeah. I think a practical application of that that we've gotten away from a lot of times in the way we landscape is fences in the front yard or some kind of barrier in the front yard. Oh, yeah. Like I remember, containment is everything. Yes. So I have three children, so nowhere near but the number that you have.
- [33:23]
A
But they're little, very small children, which is like the main ones I'm thinking about because, like, the older ones, they can, they can play outside literally anywhere. They're not going to go the street. It's fine. But the little ones are the ones I'm considering when I'm saying all this.
- [33:35]
B
Yes, no, it's true. And my husband and I talk about one of the biggest regrets that we have with when we put all our fence infrastructure in. And now it's. Some of it's aged. And so to add it's like, oh, we could, but then it would look new. And then you have new and old. And we just haven't wanted to. To do it since was just not fencing the front yard because we realize we would use it so much more. And the feeling of safety again. Back to that, the hospitableness, like, I'm not going to have someone else's kids say, go out play in the front yard with my children. I'll keep all the children in the front yard. Like that would never happen.
- [34:13]
A
Right.
- [34:14]
B
Because I wouldn't feel safe about it. Right. So now I'm with you. We host a lot outside and built a pavilion just for that. Because the inside space, once you get more than two kids yelling at each other at the same time, it's like nobody can hear themselves. But if they can go run outside, suddenly a small house becomes still a place nine months out of the year that you can host generously.
- [34:41]
A
Yes. Well, yeah, there's no house big enough for a certain number of guests, you know, and certain number of guests with children, you know, like my sister and I, between the two of us, there's 15 kids, then I have two more sisters and between all of us there's like 20 kids. There's not a house large enough that that's just going to feel okay.
- [35:00]
B
No, you're still going to send them outside. Go.
- [35:02]
A
Yeah, they have to go outside. Like there is just no way. So that has been one of our main goals with our new property is somebody and my parents are these people right now, which is great. But it'd be, it'd be good to have like more than one option because we go crash their place. Like literally, I've already been over there two or three times this week. They're not even home, they're on vacation. But just to swim in their creek, you know, like in the. They have a really good swimming hole and then they also have a little tank pool and they have like little ride on toys and the kids have their dirt bikes there. And so I want to have another place, another house where like just my immediate family can come and not overwhelm, you know, people in public. Like if we go to a park, we're too much.
- [35:48]
B
Right? Right. Yes.
- [35:51]
A
And just overwhelm anybody's house. Like we. I can't have everybody over here we're. There's not enough.
- [35:57]
B
It's.
- [35:57]
A
The infrastructure is just not there. And so I think with hosting in mind, I can think of some places I've been actually one is Katie Metka down in actually Metkas and the Craigies. They Both are on YouTube, but they both have really tiny houses for their large families. But they have like outdoor pizza ovens and pavilions and they can host like, like a hundred people. They're not even scared of who shows up because of how the outside is set up.
- [36:28]
B
Yeah. And that goes back to that kind of generosity which again isn't going to be necessarily look like a hundred people for everybody, but it just might look like your family is comfortable or your children are comfortable. You know what, what does it take to make children comfortable outside? Well, not, not a whole lot. But they need to be safe and they need to have some, some stuff to explore and you give them those things. And I mean safety within reason. Like you could go crazy and say never have any play equipment and never have any. You know.
- [36:58]
A
Yes, kids are going to get hurt, but I mean the moms can mostly relax knowing nothing bad.
- [37:04]
B
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I, I think that all that all plays into it. I thought some of your guests asks or your response it responses to your questions were really good people. The questions people asked one that I, I wanted to talk about. Here, let me. Yeah.
- [37:24]
A
Are there any that stick out to you? I'll. I'll. We'll reverse this how we usually do it. Which ones were you excited to answer?
- [37:30]
B
Well, some of them. It's like, whoa, those are such big like specific questions.
- [37:36]
A
Right.
- [37:36]
B
Like we should definitely tie the question about, you know, just general giving a sense of place in history. I think tying. That's. That was one of my questions which feels like cheating because I wanted to go look at other people's questions. But I think this one is a, is a place to start.
- [37:56]
A
That's okay. I wanted to get to that as well.
- [38:01]
B
It starts with house. I think you know it. You choose the land obviously. Or if you're, if you're designing, you. You choose the design of the house based on what is going to make sense for this land and for you. You know, there are probably house styles that you liked that just wouldn't have made sense on the land that you bought. Then every. Everything starts with that. Oh, absolutely. That kind of historical adapted farmhouse dictates I think everything else about what you put outside from the style and the materials you choose to how the construction methods are done. Because We've all seen, you know, an old, beautiful old house where they come in with something that's extremely modern and it just. It just is jarring, you know, or it looks like, okay, well, that is on trend right now, but, you know, the same. It's not going to be on trend in, you know, five years or 10 years. And I think there is a certain amount of cost, like when you are doing anything to your house that you want to spend your money wisely. And the more timeless it is, it may cost a little bit more, but it's also going to last and work for longer. And stuff outside, like an example might be how what kind of wood you use or the kind of stone works that's done. And are you doing the work to excavate and put in your infrastructure of, you know, sub layers before you do a pea gravel? Are you just throwing down the weed fabric, which is going to make you crazy a year from now? Oh, you know, you're right that you did okay. So you can. We did that for this. It makes you. I have literally never talked to anyone because people want a historical look, but you, you can't necessarily cut corners to get there. It would be better, you know, to do a little bit at a time, knowing you're going to prioritize the quality of, of the materials. So, but, but one thing I think about, like, it is the, the things that you can cue are the materials and the, the construction methods. The way we use spaces now is a little different than someone who had actually lived in a farmhouse a hundred years ago would be doing. They. They're not going to have your pool. You know, they wouldn't have had. There are things like that where it's.
- [40:31]
A
Like, well, obviously they don't have free time. We do.
- [40:34]
B
No, they probably would have had an absolutely enormous functional garden because it had to feed them like the whole year.
- [40:41]
A
Right, exactly.
- [40:42]
B
And these, these more recreational things would not have been present. So how can we reference that story of. This has been here a long time. This, these materials feel like they fit the house and fit the place. Okay. So the layout's not going to be, you know, anything like necessarily what it would have been, but we can cue with the style. Okay. What would have been local to this area. And then, you know, anything that is geographically appropriate as far as the stone that's quarried locally, the kind of timber that's cut locally, if there's anything that's hardwood that would even, you know, be. Be appropriate for outside, if you're doing bitches or things like that that feels like it belongs to the place. But I do think it can be. It can be tempting to think, well, to. To look at Pinterest a lot, which is really helpful, but to know, like, you're trying to match up anything you do in. In the landscape to the style of the house, which is being matched to the style of the land or the use of the land, you know, so it kind of. It does come back to the land, but usually, like, it's via the house, and then that translates into the landscape, because you could have done probably a few slightly different things that would be appropriate for your land. Like, if you had wanted. If you were a totally different person with a different aesthetic and wanted, like, an incredibly modern house, that also could have been very interesting. The landscape is going to be like nothing. You know, nothing like that. So you could have taken that same land and, you know, not tried to be historical with it. But I think because you. You did, everything goes back to, okay, what would look like it belongs with this house. And the more sort of. The more honest the materials are, the more they're going to look like they go like, yeah, you know, less. Less concrete, more stone. Okay. Stone is more expensive. Maybe you go, like, a little bit at a time with your stone or have accents of it rather than, you know, tons and tons of stone or prioritize where it goes, those kind of things.
- [42:59]
A
Yeah. Well, one thing I was thinking when you were talking about the pool, because, you know, I completely agree, if it wasn't for having so many kids, I wouldn't even want the aesthetics of a pool at all. Like. Like, you know, but one thing Brent talks about is, like, creating a story over time. So at some point in history, they did this. You know, history could have been, like, five years ago.
- [43:21]
B
Yeah.
- [43:21]
A
But I've been thinking about, like, the. The decking around the pool or whatever you call it. And you know, of course, concrete's ugly, but then also, practically, we're going to have so many kids in this pool. You know what I mean? So, like, can't get away with no grass. Can't get away with. Probably with Even stone. Would be difficult with kids running. And so there is.
- [43:48]
B
It gets slick.
- [43:49]
A
Yeah, well, and you talked about earlier, like, the things further away from the house. I'm like, you know what? Because I agree. I love stone. In our last place, we put in. Darn it. What do you call those pavers that are stone.
- [44:00]
B
Big flagstones.
- [44:01]
A
Flagstone. That was it.
- [44:03]
B
Yep.
- [44:04]
A
And I'm like, it was so beautiful. Because the sidewalks, instead of being concrete, were flagstone. And I'm like, you know what? I think I'm gonna reserve all that kind of stuff for up by the house.
- [44:13]
B
Yeah.
- [44:14]
A
And then I get down to the pool in the barn. Just concrete. Practical. I do think we can. With like the fencing around the pool and some, like, raised beds and things make it to where it's not so, like concrete right there. But yeah. Trying to figure out how to have that balance too. Because, like, you mentioned expense, too, like to put flagstone around like a pool, very pricey. Especially if you want like 10ft so you can, you know, have kids, like running and everything. Probably not gonna happen. But yeah, it's that balance.
- [44:49]
B
I guess it is. It totally is. And I think the whole point of. Okay, this isn't something, you know, like the grill or there are gonna be all these things that, like, they wouldn't have been there. But then. Okay, can you cue, like you said, with the way you do the fencing or the sort of cottagey style of the plants, and maybe there's a winding path to get there, or maybe there's some, you know, some trees that. That soften and then it's a thing that just is very functional that you don't think about. So I just feel like this is. This is always the intersection of design. Right. Like, what. How do we want it to look, what can we afford to do and what is going to work.
- [45:31]
A
Right. Yep. And those are three things. You can't ignore any one of them.
- [45:35]
B
Cannot ignore any one of them. So when it's like, okay, here's a little lightly traveled path that's not too big. Yeah. Do the stone, you know, because it's not too expensive and it's not functionally going to be. And if it's right by the house, then you. You wrap the house in that story. It. It totally is a judgment call, though, on. On all those other things. And you can do tinted concrete. Did you know that?
- [46:01]
A
Well, my sister, just one of my sisters, did that in her house. Because they were. They did like a pole barn style house and they were. Yeah, they did the. They tinted the concrete. But what would you recommend for that? Because I. I am trying to. Like, this is like going to be a thing. We're going to have to decide really soon. We kind of already thought we would have that done by now, but you know how everything takes like 12 times longer than you expect.
- [46:24]
B
It totally does. Yes. That's. I've never seen a building schedule perfect. Perfect yet.
- [46:32]
A
Yeah.
- [46:32]
B
Like in. In all the years that I've been.
- [46:34]
A
Yeah.
- [46:35]
B
Doing this. No, it's never. Exactly. And actually I think you're doing pretty well based on. I think you're clicking along.
- [46:41]
A
Yeah. Oh yeah. It's all clicking along.
- [46:43]
B
It's clicking along.
- [46:45]
A
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- [50:03]
B
So if you have a native stone that you know that you'd want to incorporate for certain things, get a piece of that stone like you cannot replace. Having actual physical like anything else. Like you need to get a piece of the stone of whatever is either quarried near you that you know you want to use or something that's shipped in because you like the color better and like you know it's from a certain vein and there's always just variations in like how gray is it, how blue is it, how orange is it, you know, based on the mineral content of the rocks so that that piece to have. And then you go to your concrete contractor and you say I want to look at all your integral color samples. So all of the companies that provide basically that dye that goes into the, the drum, they color the whole drum and you say I want to see your sheets of all of these and can I please have some to take with me? Thank you. And they should do that for you, give you basically it's almost like a paint chip chart.
- [51:08]
A
Oh, okay. No, I don't realize how many options.
- [51:10]
B
There are there are a lot of options if you've got a good concrete. I mean, just ask for it. And they will. They will figure it out for you if it's not something they already do. Because I think you can cheat in a good way on concrete and make it much more like you just don't see it with your. With your eye when you've already established, okay, here's the stone. And then if this concrete is. Is a very comparable tone, you don't go automatically to that white like suburbia, and then it stay stains with every bit of mud. And if you. You know that what you're describing, that's a kind of a big deal that you want it to get right. They. They could do a sample for you.
- [51:56]
A
Right.
- [51:57]
B
You ask for it. So if you say, I want to be sure that I love this, you'll pay a little bit. But to have them do, okay, here's the color that I think I most want to do, and I want. I want a sample of it. I want to see it. So. And I think asking for that, you can also do finishes, special finishes on your concrete. There's something called a salt finish that it used to be that they would throw actual rock salt, like, into the top of the concrete, and then the concrete would set, and then they'd rinse the salt away. So it gave this interesting kind of like. Like pocked finish now. And it was not like, super. It wasn't like stamping a fake, you know, because it was actually made by something real. That makes sense.
- [52:45]
A
Yeah.
- [52:46]
B
Right.
- [52:46]
A
Yeah.
- [52:48]
B
So I think you could ask. You could just ask, like, okay, what are your options for integral color? And what are your options for any specialty finish? And most of the specialty finish will be horribly tacky. Like, you would not want it in a million years, but. But some things might be like, okay, that actually gives it something that just doesn't look like a suburban driveway.
- [53:10]
A
Right.
- [53:10]
B
You know?
- [53:11]
A
Yeah.
- [53:11]
B
Like, whether it's a brushed finish, sometimes they can do a brushed finish, which just can also kind of help with traction when you have a lot of kids running and things like that. Yes. So I just think if you. If you, like, know that there are options and you dig into it with your concrete provider, then you'll feel like, okay, this is actually the best version of this that I could get. And it'll look good if you kind of follow down that track.
- [53:40]
A
Okay. Okay.
- [53:43]
B
Something else to figure out. I know.
- [53:44]
A
Yes. Something else to think about. Okay.
- [53:49]
B
So with.
- [53:50]
A
With when somebody has raw land, I think it's helpful too. To think about it with a really long vision. Because a lot of this can get overwhelming. Like, okay, we could have this room and this room and you know, we only have so much budget, so much time. How do you recommend somebody casts a large vision but then plugs away at it over many, many, many years?
- [54:13]
B
Yes. So I think probably the number one thing is this is the first thing I told you is plant trees. Because if you have the vision to have, you know, this feeling of history and maturity, a lot of that is from mature trees.
- [54:29]
A
Yeah.
- [54:29]
B
You know, like the old farmhouse with the chestnut tree right there or the oak or something that would have been, you know, just. Actually, a lot of times it's not in a spot that always makes sense. Like if we're drawing a landscape plan like directly in front of this or like this perfect symmetry with, with trees. A lot of times there's this feeling of like, just a little bit of wonkiness with where. With, you know, wherever that is and getting, getting trees planted quickly and not actually necessarily worrying if it's not perfectly in the right place. Because if it evolved, you know, you want to try to make a good, A good choice. Like, what's the angle of the sun? Where might you want to block, you know, a ton of light? Do you really want to make the north side of the house darker? That kind of thing. But if you think, okay, over time, people may not have thought about this too incredibly hard. So then if you plant something and have to respond to it, that'll just sort of add to the character.
- [55:29]
A
Right? Yeah.
- [55:30]
B
Of the place. Because that's. If you inherited a farmhouse with a big tree, you wouldn't be like, ah, needed to go over five feet.
- [55:36]
A
Yeah, well, yeah, because like, when you're saying that to the north, I was picturing my last farmhouse and I'm like, we had a huge tree just outside the north window that probably.
- [55:45]
B
Yeah.
- [55:46]
A
But it's just funny because I didn't really ever think about it because I did have to make the choice.
- [55:51]
B
Right. And there is so much like that that could just get overwhelming. But yes, that's always the first thing I tell people is like, you can't fast track a tree. I mean, you can spend more money and get one that's, that's dug and you have to make sure you really keep it watered and baby it for a year or two. But that is one of the quickest things to do. And then as far as, like, I think it's worth getting a little bit of, of help after you've Done the. As much as you can on your own. Like, as a. Kind of like you did with Brent hall or like you did with. I know you worked with a landscape architect on some of the space layout, because some of the. Some of that, like, it needs to go here, not there, or you want at least this much space for X, Y, and Z aren't necessarily things you might know as a. You know, just as a. As a layperson, like, there'd be a lot about designing. I don't know.
- [56:47]
A
Yeah, they think of things that I'm like, yep. Never would have thought of that.
- [56:51]
B
Right. So I think. I think having a plan that's just a concept, and this is something I do with a lot of people, and it's one of my most favorite things to do is to say, okay, give me the wish list. Let's take a look at as many things as we can about this land and say, if you're here for 50 years, what do you want it to be? And go with a concept that includes maybe blocks for all of those things to where you could add them later. Like, maybe the only thing that happens is you get the driveway in, you get an area right around the house where you can put your outdoor table or you have a spot to do your outdoor cooking, or you do a little kitchen garden. But, you know, someday I want to do a fire pit, and I want an orchard, and I want these other things, like. Okay. Just so you don't have regrets later on. I think it makes sense to work with somebody just a little bit, or if you're kind of a. A visually inclined person, to have an aerial shot. So that could be Google Earth. That could be a drone. That could be a survey, and you draw on it.
- [58:00]
A
Right, Right.
- [58:01]
B
So. Because that can be really fun. And. And I'm not. I'm not trying to say, like, you can't do this if you don't hire somebody. I think some people will need to hire a little bit of help, and some people might not if they had that way to draw on. And did you. With. When you were designing your, you know, your house, before you took your stuff to Brent, did you do, like, scaled drawings based on a ruler and that kind of thing?
- [58:26]
A
Me, personally? No. No, I don't know how to do any of that stuff.
- [58:29]
B
Okay. So. And I think that's where it gets kind of like, you can. You can learn how to do that. Sure. It's possible. You. Everybody's got a ruler lying around somewhere that could tell you, like, you know, for every inch it's this much.
- [58:40]
A
Right.
- [58:41]
B
But it is kind of a, a skill that you have to develop. So I think working with somebody who. That's what they do, even just for like, hey, help me draw this so that the spaces are the right size and make sense. Or take a look at this. I put the garden here and the such and such here and this, this. And they might say, oh, well, you know, you put your garden too close to that very large tree, or it's on the north slope. You're not going to want to put a garden there because it's going to get a lot less sun, just things like that. But I always encourage people to go for the big view.
- [59:17]
A
Right. Like picture. Yeah.
- [59:19]
B
In a way, in an actual drawing. Yes.
- [59:22]
A
You can frame it. Like, you sent me a drawing, and I also did consult with Ecclesia Designs, and he, he gave me a drawing. And I like the idea of like, keeping those maybe even, like framed on the wall. And then over the years, like, okay, this year we're going to put in those trees there.
- [59:40]
B
Yes.
- [59:40]
A
He said, okay, you could, you know, you can. An art or a landscape to come put all this in. I'm like, we're not probably going to do that, but I like having the vision for what it all will be. And then over time, we can diy, you know, plugging away at that. Just putting in this kitchen garden right here and then putting in this table here and there's, you know, just giving the, the vision for it.
- [60:01]
B
Yes.
- [60:01]
A
I could see how in my last house that would have been so helpful because I don't really feel like we necessarily nailed it. Like, we put in a cute little garden area, but it just, it could have been so much more.
- [60:12]
B
Yeah. And it might be that. Okay. Because I feel confident that this is where I want it to go. I'm going to do my raised or I'm going to do my beds, and I'm going to do them in the ground. And then if I, if I love it, I've reserved the space, I could build the raised beds.
- [60:28]
A
Right.
- [60:28]
B
I mean, there are some, like, really? And that's a much more expensive thing than just, you know, having your bed in the ground versus building, going for the trouble of the infrastructure to build it up. Or like you've done with putting your pool in from day one. That's a hard thing to add later. As far as if you had gone ahead and, you know, done more landscape around your house, you would have been like, okay, well, what part of this do you dig up with all the.
- [60:56]
A
Give up for the pool. Yeah. Or you should at least know where it would go. If you do want to do it a few years down the road, like, almost put some, like, stakes in the ground and just. Just don't.
- [61:05]
B
Yeah.
- [61:05]
A
Just pretend it's there. Maybe make your path knowing that it's going to be there.
- [61:10]
B
Yes. Okay. You. I love that you just brought that up, because one of my very favorite things to do is get those little. Either the landscape flags, which are, you know, a little bit ugly, but they come in yellow and white, and just irrigation companies will use them. You'll see them, like, stuck in the ground, or you get, like, a wooden stake that you hammer down in, and then you can do the. But kind of probably what you did with the footprint of your house to figure out where that goes, you can do the exact same thing with your outdoor spaces. Because if you can feel it, if you can walk through it, like, here's how I think I want my outdoor dining to work. Let me outline the footprint of the space and put stakes in. And then let me put stakes in for the size of the table. Let me walk around that. Does that feel comfortable? Like, again, you're. You might read in a book that it should be X, Y, or Z, but, like, does it feel right? You know? Yeah. And you'll get a sense. Even if you're not doing a scale drawing yourself or you don't have somebody to do that for you. If you could go outside and measure and do your. Do your stakes and that feels right. Then. Then you can measure it afterwards and say, what was that? That felt right, you know, and kind of. I like to do both. But you can do. You could do that even if you skip kind of the drawing stage of, like, maybe the topography limits you, and it's like, okay, how much? What I need. And then you can always reverse engineer and measure stuff. But that's a great way. That's a great way to know. Or if you're ordering an outdoor table right. You know, how big does it need to be? Okay, well, go stick it in the ground and see what feels right. Or a pavilion or a terrace or anything like that.
- [63:02]
A
Yes. I think that makes a ton of sense for when you're not doing everything at once, because we're also not doing even close to everything at once because there's a lot of things that we want to add over the years. We are just. We mostly just wanted to get, like, the big pieces in place, and it'll probably look pretty out of place for Several years. But it's taking things out and just having a vision long term for how you can fill the spaces out over the years, little projects you can work on when you have the time and the resources to do it over the years, I think makes it exciting, too, because it gives you something to look. I mean, I don't know. We like having something to change, to look forward to, to add. And what fun would it be to do it all at once? Right. If you could, which I don't know.
- [63:52]
B
Who could do that? Well, I do. Because you work with people. Yes, but it isn't most of us. And I will say, like, there is something about doing the first step and then living with it and then doing the next step and living with it. Sometimes your ideas get better.
- [64:10]
A
That's what I'm always thinking, too. Yeah, they do.
- [64:14]
B
Or you're like, oh, I didn't predict that we would always go out the door this way. Just like that sense of, like, what deer do in a landscape. Like, what do the children do just by themselves? And then you can respond to it and put the play area where they're already going, you know, you can't always know those things.
- [64:32]
A
No, you can't. We talked about this actually a lot with our current house, because the one in town that we're living in, we thought we knew where the kids would play, and we even fenced in, like, a whole thing, and it actually wasn't right. And I don't really know why. It must be because of where the door is in the garage and, like, where we put the bikes. Like, it's probably. It could be tweaked, but it's not what we thought at all. And I think that's partially why. I think it's wiser to not do everything at once. Because you can, you know, you can put the stake somewhere else. You can pencil your drawing. Like, make it a little different. Once you discover how, what. What door do you actually go out of? Like, you think, you know, but then you might actually, like, I, you know, I don't ever use garages, even though we've had them. And so I'm gonna pull in the garage, I'm gonna go out this sidewalk and in the back door. Or am I going to literally pull up front of the house literally every time?
- [65:31]
B
Probably.
- [65:31]
A
I don't know. Maybe. And so figuring all of that out.
- [65:35]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [65:36]
A
Over time. Yeah.
- [65:37]
B
Right. And you'll realize, like, oh, actually, the part that I see every day, multiple times, because this is where I end up parking I care more about that, you know, and you can only care hard about a certain amount when you're doing it all yourself, right?
- [65:52]
A
Yes, exactly. Yeah. Okay. Another question we had from the audience is tips for overcoming analysis paralysis when starting a new project.
- [66:05]
B
That's a good one. I think you can throw the net wide with whether it's. I love actual books, and I know you feel the same way.
- [66:14]
A
Yes.
- [66:15]
B
But if you go on, I feel like the Internet is this sort of quagmire. It can just suck you and suck you and suck you. And if you have a book, you are limited to the book, right?
- [66:28]
A
Yes. That's why you probably have analysis problems. The Internet, there's too many choices.
- [66:34]
B
Oh, there's no curation. No. You're curating.
- [66:38]
A
I. I always think that when I start getting on Pinterest, looking up things, I'm like, you know, this doesn't help. Like, you're not gonna walk away with a decision. Actually, you're gonna walk away with 12 more options and yes, a hundred more.
- [66:49]
B
Things on your board that then you're like, I don't know what to do.
- [66:52]
A
Yeah. And then I can't even, like, take action from it. Like, it doesn't move me in the direction of making any decisions. And I. I'm a person who naturally struggles with decisions, especially when it comes to anything design related. And so I agree with you. I think that's probably the first thing is just get off Pinterest.
- [67:11]
B
Get off Pinterest and get some books.
- [67:13]
A
Well, what are some books you recommend?
- [67:16]
B
It depends on if it's the style. Yes. If we're talking, like, laying out the space or if we're talking like plants. But there's one that I thought was really helpful that just came out actually went to my. I have this design book cabinet and I'm like, I gotta have some actual names because I know she's gonna ask this. There's one that came out pretty recently called how to Design a Garden by a British. I know. I appreciate how straightforward. A British designer named Pollyanna Wilkerson. And I think for anybody who's. Who's looking for just a broad brush overview of, like, what might you want to think about if you're trying to. And even if you're going to hire somebody, what questions do you ask? Like, what color is the co. You know, just. There's some specific questions that that would bring up. I think that's helpful. And then I maybe could just give you a list for the, for the notes. But depending on, like, I Saw one question in there about like, how do I make edible landscaping beautiful? There is a. Another designer, Christian Douglas, who just wrote a book called Food Forward Garden where he's basically like, you have to design, you know, the spaces really well. Yeah.
- [68:36]
A
Especially like if space is a concern, making it beautiful and edible and time is a concern.
- [68:42]
B
Right, right. Yeah, it all totally is. I mean there's. I always am very drawn to like the British style of gardening, partly because I think they have a lot more of that historical precedent to go on than we do as much here. I feel like we have, you know, the very agricultural roots in America or like super grand estates that it's like, yes, well, you know, like I love visiting Monticello, but you know, that's not.
- [69:15]
A
Well, even the idea of talking about landscaping automatically sounds like, okay, well you, you must be richer than me. Like.
- [69:21]
B
Right, right. And there is this, this divide I think of like if you're doing anything optional, then it is a luxury.
- [69:31]
A
Absolutely not practical.
- [69:32]
B
Doesn't make sense.
- [69:34]
A
Yes.
- [69:35]
B
So I mean, yes, there is some of that, but like why do we want to eat good food, you know, and beautiful. Why do we want to wear beautiful? It, it's. There is that quotient of like you can't always quantify it, but also you can when it comes to your health and your well being and how much you use a space. But there's those classic like British gardeners that have written about cottage gardening specifically. It'd be like Monty Don. Everybody loves.
- [70:02]
A
Everybody loves Monty Dawn.
- [70:03]
B
Everybody loves Monty Don. And he's. I'm. For good reason. He's really written a lot of really helpful books.
- [70:08]
A
Annie has some YouTube. Like you can. There's also great YouTube content like yours.
- [70:13]
B
There is.
- [70:13]
A
Because when we were saying the Internet, I must say I don't feel that way when I watch YouTube. I come away with actionable things. It's a slower form.
- [70:22]
B
The slow. Yes.
- [70:23]
A
Yeah, it's scrolling Pinterest and Instagram. You come away and you're like, okay, I have no clue what to do. I'm so like, there's a million options. You know what to choose.
- [70:34]
B
Yes. Right. So I think, I do think if you find somebody whose work you like, whether that's a designer or just a person who's living, you know, the way you. The following specific people is. Is a little more. I mean you can, you can find a great things on Pinterest. I don't want to villainize that because I certainly spent time there all the time I use it. But it's a. It's not it like you said, it's not going to make decisions for you.
- [71:03]
A
Right.
- [71:03]
B
So yes, you set your own. It's sort of like, you know, going into chat GPT and like chat GPT is not going to make decisions for you either. It's going to help you certain in certain ways based on the quality of what you feed it. And I think it's the same thing with any kind of search or assisted, you know, design tool. So yeah, I think my, my first tip would be books. And then your house architecture style is going to limit you. So those are the books you choose and the amount of time you have is going to limit you. So that changes your direction too. I think there could be the more built structure often you have in a garden, like let's say paths that are never changing, walls, things that are not alive. The less maintenance a lot of times you're going to have. So I heard one, you know, if you know you have not a huge amount of time, maybe you put your garden energy like you guys did into one terrace that it's like this is the thing that we're going to use a lot. Like rather than doing a little bit here and a little bit there and like a few plants here year sometimes ironically, the thing that will make the most difference is a hardscaping thing, not plants. I guess that's what I'm saying.
- [72:25]
A
Yeah. What kind of. What, what are some examples? Because I want to, I, I feel like that's what we lacked at our last house was I didn't ever figure out like hardscaping stuff that I, I think I see on other gardens and I don't necessarily realize why there's look so much cozier and there's boundaries.
- [72:44]
B
So it is your, your surfaces, your walls and your floor and then you know, what's, what's on the ground. And stone is less maintenance than even grass. So you know, thinking and it makes you be able to put furniture on it. Walls can be hedges, they could be fences. They could even just be like you plant a few trees close together and that gives you the feeling of an enclosure or like we talk about like this, the ceiling space in and out. If you have a tree then you have a ceiling over you and that's part of a thing that makes you feel comfortable. But I think somewhere to sit and somewhere to eat are probably the two things of like if you want to give your. What are you going to want to go do outside? Somewhere to sit and somewhere to eat. Because if you can sit and watch your kids play.
- [73:38]
A
Right.
- [73:38]
B
That's a win. Or if you can, you know, I don't know how you are, but I rarely just, like, sit to sit. Because rarely time.
- [73:46]
A
Yeah.
- [73:47]
B
But I. I will sit to eat, and I will sit sometimes to watch my kids.
- [73:52]
A
Yes, yes.
- [73:54]
B
You know, or as part of, like, a social thing. Entertaining. That sort of thing. So I think if. If you don't know where to start with. Okay, what do I want to focus on first? And it's. Let's say someone, you know, isn't necessarily a huge edible gardener. If they were, that. That would be the place they start. You know, somebody who really wants a garden is going to get a garden.
- [74:15]
A
Yeah.
- [74:16]
B
You know, it's. Even if it's in pots or whatever for the time being. But if you really don't know what else to prioritize, I would say sitting and eating.
- [74:26]
A
Yes.
- [74:27]
B
Maybe especially eating.
- [74:28]
A
Yes.
- [74:29]
B
Because you have to do that. You have to do it right.
- [74:32]
A
And eating outside is. It's so special. I love eating outside.
- [74:37]
B
It's so special.
- [74:38]
A
And lighting. So, like, string lights create little moments. In our current house that we're living in, it's an old house, and the previous owner, she passed away, but she took, like, she loved this place and she lived here forever. And she has. In one of the yards, a, Like a. What do you even call.
- [75:01]
B
Has a pergola with, like, a lattice.
- [75:04]
A
It's like, it's big. It's probably like it's square. You can go inside of it and it's all grown up with. I. I put it on my picture of this app the other day. Now, I can't remember what it was, but it's various vines. And like, in the. In the fall and winter, we didn't necessarily know that, but it's.
- [75:20]
B
It's.
- [75:20]
A
It's like. And this is just a wide open yard, and in the middle of it, there's this square structure that it's all shaded just because it grows up with vines. In the summertime, I'm like, this is just neat because you could bring a table and chairs out here, put a few string lights in there, and you have a whole thing. And it wasn't. It took time because I don't know how long it takes for vines to get to the level that they are. Like, they're. They're very mature. But over the years, now there's this beautiful little spot.
- [75:54]
B
Yeah, yeah. No, I think that brings up a very good point of. You just have to think about the angle of the sun because no one is going to want to sit and be scorched wherever it is. So sometimes if you have no trees and you're waiting for them to grow, then it does make sense to build a little structure of some kind. It sounds like maybe, you know, there's. There's lattice that is much. Or some kind of trellis system.
- [76:24]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [76:25]
B
You know, that's a lot cheaper to build than, like, a solid building with a roof. And then.
- [76:29]
A
Right.
- [76:30]
B
It. It shouldn't, depending on, you know, where somebody lives and what kind of vines they'd be dealing with. But a year or two, you can get a lot of growth on the right vines if you, you know, keep them watered and put them in good soil. So within a season or two, you could have more shade that way from, like, a pergola. I love that. And then, like you said, it's like a little place to go. And. Yes, the kids do. The kids love it.
- [76:58]
A
You know, I thought they'd play in there more. They really don't. But there is a trampoline nearby and a swing set, so maybe that's why. And there's also a tree that they climb very nearby to it.
- [77:09]
B
They want to be doing stuff. Yeah, yeah.
- [77:11]
A
But I'm like, well, this is neat. And it's kind of in a location where, like, it should be closer to the house, I feel like, because if it was, I think we would use it.
- [77:20]
B
Yeah.
- [77:20]
A
But there's a lot this house has taught me because it was a person that really loved landscaping. Like, the whole back patio is brick, which is beautiful. However, it never stays sunny enough back there. And they're always.
- [77:34]
B
Is it slippery?
- [77:36]
A
It's slippery. It's, like, slimy, like. And I thought, oh, certainly it'll completely dry out in the summer, but because there's so. It has so much tree cover back there that that never happens. And so it's. It's beautiful. Like, having a whole brick patio is so pretty. But I'm like, I don't know if, you know, if you have a wide open. If there's not a lot of shade, that might work great. But, yeah, it's a little.
- [78:00]
B
Yeah. And there are considerations like that with. With, you know, you're going to get growth pretty much on anything if it's in shade like that.
- [78:08]
A
Yes, true. Yeah.
- [78:09]
B
So I know people always want to know, like, what's the least maintenance of whatever? And it's like that. That's not always. Sometimes it's the right question, but it isn't always the right question of like, you don't have a. No maintenance garden, no matter what you do.
- [78:26]
A
No, it's, you know, it's.
- [78:28]
B
It's like I heard an interior. Well, a landscape designer joke. Like you, you go with interiors and you put a couch there and the couch stays. Well, we put, you know, our equivalent of the couch and the couch dies. Right. Or the couch gets a disease or the couch gets fungus, you know, because of the. The shade. So there is a lot that, like, I think having a, having a knowledge of those things. Yeah. You would assume, oh, it's brick. Nothing could. What could possibly affect something that sturdy? Well, turns out, yes, there's always something.
- [79:04]
A
There's always something. And maybe that brings us full circle as to why not everybody focuses on these things. But then I think we've also made a case for why it would be worth it because we do know how valuable it is to spend time outside. So that being said, tell the listeners about your YouTube channel where they can find inspiration on knowing some of these things. Because I think that's one of the top reasons why people don't pursue creating gardens is. It's just. It sounds overwhelming. It seems like I don't have the knowledge and the skill set. Like my couch is going to die. Like, it's easier just to throw a couch in there, you know? So tell them where they can find you and all that you offer. And then you also said you have a podcast coming up. I don't know when that's coming out.
- [79:44]
B
But yes, we've just. It's a friend of mine named Molly Hendry, she's a garden designer as well in Birmingham. So we have kind of a Southern connection going on in our podcast is by the time this comes out, it will be live on itunes. And wherever you get your podcast called Garden Gab, we thought, you know, the whole idea of a garden club, I kind of love it. But also, who has. At least not in my stage of life or your stage of life to go listen to people chit chat about what they're doing in their gardens or share plants or share ideas or anything like that. It's like, that's. That's not my season of life.
- [80:23]
A
Right.
- [80:23]
B
But I would love to hear somebody talking about that and just sharing ideas. And it's like, here's what I'm doing in the garden this week and a lot of little tips and tricks like that. So that's what I'll be doing. That'll be Garden Gab, the podcast. And then I've been doing YouTube actually. Thanks to you for a year and a half now. And that is at Garden Party Studio or Garden Studio with Tessa Pinner. And it's really just me in my garden, which is like my laboratory, talking about some really practical stuff, like, you know, what did I do wrong here? What do you do about invasive plants? Or how can you think about privacy hedges all the way to. Here's a really fun planting I did with a bunch of bulbs, you know, and, and here's what it looks like after a certain amount of time. So fun stuff, practical stuff. And I do have a website, but that's mostly for clients to reach out to me. So I do, I do client work locally, not so much at a distance. Although, you know, if it's just a concept like what we worked together, that can be something that still could be really helpful. And then, and anytime I'm not doing that, I'm definitely chasing my children. So, yeah, that's. That's where we are.
- [81:39]
A
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. And we will leave links to all of that down in the description box or the show notes below, depending on where you're getting this podcast. So thank you so much, Tessa, for joining us.
- [81:49]
B
Thank you, Lisa. It was a pleasure to be on.
- [81:54]
A
Thanks, as always, for listening to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. My husband, Luke was and I and our eight kids work together side by side on our little homestead and use our blog, podcast and YouTube channel to reach other homemakers, home cooks and homesteaders with practical recipes and daily family life. For everyday sourdough recipes, make sure to check out our blog, farmassonboon.com and to dig deeper, we do also offer a course called Simple Sourdough over at Bit Ly Farmhouse. Sourdough Course. That's. That's all one word. Bit Ly Farmhouses. If you're looking to learn how we earn an income online, check out my YouTube course at Bit Ly Farmhouse. YouTube course all one Word.
- [82:49]
B
Sam.