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Simple Farmhouse Life
308. Parenting Boys in Today’s Culture: Eight Essentials for Moms | Molly DeFrank
00:55:42
What every boy needs from his mom in the formative years
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- [00:00]
Molly
Moms get to identify where our boy's strengths and weaknesses are or even if we perceive it to be a weakness. He sees two siblings fighting and he needs to go and try and regulate it on a bad day, that's a meddler and that's annoying. This is our job as moms. We get to look at that and say, you know what? You actually have a really clear sense of right and wrong. It's great for us to be on the lookout because no one knows our kids like we do. Mothers have incredible insight. We can see the way their hearts and minds are even from when they're very tiny. It's our job to kind of see, steer them to where, hey, I see this trait in you. Do you know where that trait really shines over here.
- [00:34]
Lisa
My name is Lisa, mother of eight and creator of the blog and YouTube channel Farmhouse on Boone. On this podcast, I like to talk about simplifying your life so you can live out your priorities. I help you learn how to cook from scratch and decorate on a budget through this podcast and my courses Simple Sourdough and the Simple Sewing Series. I also help people reach their goals from home through my business course, YouTube Success Academy. I will leave links to these resources in the show notes and description box below. Now let's get into the show.
- [01:05]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Welcome back to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. Today we're going to be talking about raising boys, something that's very applicable to me as a mom with six young boys. About to say 12, but I was going to say six young boys 12 and under, not 12 young boys six and under, cuz that would be what? Double quadruple is crazy. I guess because of the ages anyways. No, not quite that crazy. But still, life can be full with a lot of boys and there are a lot of cultural misconceptions and expectations placed on boys that can make it a challenging world for them. It's a whole different world and my guest is very knowledgeable in this as well. She has three boys and she's written a book on mothering boys. So let's jump into this interview. Molly, thank you so much for joining us here on the podcast again. And this time you have a new book. When did this book come out? Actually this is pretty new, correct?
- [02:07]
Molly
Yeah, it just came out in April. So it's just a couple months old. It's a little baby.
- [02:11]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yes, all about mothering boys and eight things your son needs from you before he turns 10. I have a lot of little boys, actually. I have six boys 12 and under. So Quite a few little boys. So this book felt very relevant to me and I can relate to a lot of the things that you talked about in the book. So let's start with introductions and tell us about your new book.
- [02:35]
Molly
Yes. Well, thanks so much for having me on. It's such a treat to talk with you again, Lisa. Yeah, I wrote this book Mothering Boys because, you know, there are a couple things going on I've noticed in our culture, and one is that boys are really struggling. I. I noticed that boys are twice as likely to drop out of high school. They account for twice as many kids that are getting expelled. They also are half as likely to go to graduate school or college. So it's actually really troubling some of this data. Two thirds of young men say no one really knows me, and our boys are just really struggling. I think a lot of that truly is a result of a couple things. One is they're spending so much time on digital entertainment, they're not having that back and forth conversation like how people have historically grown up. But another thing is that that's what's influencing our kids. So rather than instilling this worldview in our kids and this sense of belonging side by side, they're growing up without relationship and they're growing up without a worldview formation, and they're feeling really lost and it's very sad. So I also noticed there was a Barna study out that said a child's worldview is primarily formed by the time he's 13 years old. And I thought, man, what an opportunity for moms to roll up our sleeves and do everything we can for our boys, to really best position them to succeed and to use their masculinity and their gifts to bless the world rather than feeling really beat down by the world that's telling them masculinity is toxic and the future is female. And all of these narratives that are so negative towards men who are a gift to, to good, flourishing societies. So that's my heart behind the book.
- [04:18]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah, I think it's very important and I think we have to look at where the mindset has gotten us in as a culture in the last many, many years. I think that it wouldn't be hard to see that a lot of things are falling apart. So, as a Christian, how has your faith shaped the way that you parent, and what biblical principles do you think are most important in raising boys today?
- [04:41]
Molly
Yeah, well, I think the most important thing for me is to. Well, first there's the encouragement as a mom, which is Just to know where my responsibility starts and ends. My calling as a mom is to be faithful, to teach my kids and my boys, especially for the sake of this book, but to teach them about God. I think about Deuteronomy 6, that where Moses is, is sharing with the people. He's saying, listen, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and teach your kids about God and talk about God when you walk down the road and when you get up and when you lay down and when you're hanging out at your house. And so that's really a timeless piece of parenting advice for me. Also, I have this piece that I wish I could go back and tell my younger mom self. It's taken a long time for me to grow. My oldest is almost 16, my youngest is 8. And so I have kind of come into a stride here on being at peace with the things that are outside of my control, but wanting to also be faithful to how God has called me to parent my kids. So that's where I think the faith component is really important and so comforting for moms, but also really exhorting us to, to parent our kids.
- [05:53]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Well, yeah, I was just talking to someone today about the risks that boys take. She and I both have a lot of boys and, and I think in general, boys have more risk taking tendencies than in general with girls. But there are definitely ones that seem to have more awareness of what could happen and ones that don't. And I have my oldest, he definitely isn't as much of a risk taker, which I like, because he'll be driving before those other two that are below him. And when we go out to our build site, he's not the one climbing up all of the barn framing and going ridiculously high. And when he's on his dirt bike, he, he rides at a very respectable speed with his helmet on. But then what do you do about the next two? They don't seem to have a single part of their brain that tells them that this is risky. And you talk about in your book boys needing to get comfortable with their world by taking risks. And I don't. You don't have to make them do it. It's not. It comes pretty darn naturally to them.
- [07:00]
Molly
Yeah, that's so true. I love that you said that because I think for any mom listening to, they know that if you've got more than a handful of kids, you're constantly scratching your head going, they're raised in the same home. Like, we're doing the same stuff. And yet look at how different these kids are. And even like, you can't put all boys in a box too. I completely agree. And I have three boys and three girls. Yeah, but, yeah, it is too. And there's probably a lot of birth order in there too. My oldest is a girl, but she's very similar to that. Like her ducks are in a row getting broken into the teen years super easily with that one. But, but my boys, yeah, same.
- [07:33]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
My oldest is a girl. I just met my oldest son. She's also like so easy. She's, she drives now and she's careful. Like. Yeah, I think there is some birth order stuff there too, for sure.
- [07:46]
Molly
And it's fun because you see how differently wired these kids are. You know, they're created in such different ways. And I talk about this a lot in the book how, um, some of these traits that look scary or that are stressing us out, where these kids, I got, I got one boy that, that kid would climb up anything and jump off anything and run into any, you know, moving cars or vehicles or whatever, and it was scary. And another one that's a little more cautious. But I talk about this in the book about how moms get to identify where our boys strengths and weaknesses are or even if we perceive it to be a weakness. Like, gosh, this kid is so impulsive. They're just, they don't think before they do. Or gosh, this kid meddles in people's business. Like he sees two siblings fighting and he needs to go and try and regulate it. And you know, on a, on a bad day, that, that, that's a meddler and that's annoying. But on a good day, and this is our job as moms, we get to look at that and say, you know what, you actually have a really clear sense of right and wrong. And you know what, you actually maybe have a really good capacity to, to kind of, you know, moderate for these guys. I don't know, maybe you're going to go into law enforcement or maybe you're going to be an attorney. But it's great for us to be on the lookout because no one knows our kids like we do. Parents, we know our kids the best. And I believe that mothers have really incredible insight to just, we can see that. We can see the way their hearts and minds are even from when they're very tiny. And so it's our job to kind of, not necessarily squash those really active boys, but kind of steer them to where, hey, I see this trait in you. Do you know where that Trait really shines over here. Like, look at this. And here's some nonfiction books about really incredible, you know, detectives or police officers, things you can do in the future where you can use this gift God gave you for. For good. And there are lots of good examples of that in society. But also in scripture, we can find examples all over the map of people, you know, just different wiring, different personality traits. And I go into this in the book, too, for moms to kind of say, well, gosh, how does my kid. Where do they fall in this? Like, who are they? Like, and just giving them some positive encouragement for how to steer that back to use for good.
- [10:01]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah, because I think there's a tendency with parenting when you see how different. You have multiple children. I have multiple children, and we have children that are past a certain age, and you just see how different they are. Completely wired that you had zero control over. And there's a tendency to say, well, I have no control, clearly, but it's taking the person that they are because they are someone. And you can't make everybody be the same person, no matter what you do. But then steering it in a direction that's positive because it's just so clear to see these. These children are so different. They have different strengths and different weaknesses and figuring out how that could actually be a benefit. I saw there was a part in your book where you talked about, you know, we call it. There's a whole list of things, like, we call it this, but what if we looked at it like this? Like you were just saying with the. The meddler. Where is that section?
- [10:58]
Molly
Do you know what I'm talking about right here?
- [11:00]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
I don't know how recently you read your book.
- [11:01]
Molly
Yeah, Negative trade.
- [11:02]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
I get people that ask about mine. They're like, do you have this in that book? And I'm like, I don't remember.
- [11:06]
Lisa
I'm sorry.
- [11:09]
Molly
No, it's so true. Yeah, I've got it right here. In fact, I was thinking of one example. Like, a negative trait would be stubborn. Someone who's stubborn. But as a positive, you could see that as someone who's really firm in their convictions. And one example of that is Moses. And you know, when God called him to lead, God himself literally came and told him to go lead the Israelites. And he's like, wait, who, me? What? No, no, I'm not qualified. Like, hey, Moses, like, literally, God told.
- [11:37]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Right?
- [11:37]
Molly
So I don't think that he's wrong. And. But that same quality later was used for good when he actually really stood up to Pharaoh. And then he. He led all of those people, 2 million Israelites out of Egypt. And so, you know, that takes a unique kind of personality and a really good leader to be able to do that. So. And there's all kinds of examples like that, you know, people who are overly chatty. I got one. One nice thing about having so many kids is when I talk to people, I feel like I can leave these stories a little anonymous since there's so.
- [12:07]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Many of my kids does this. Right, exactly.
- [12:11]
Molly
But even one of these is like overly, overly chatty kids. You're like, okay, little. A little exhausted from listening to these stories or, you know, just super overly chatty. And you think about in scripture, I'm thinking of Joseph who, like, didn't know when to zip it sometimes. And Joseph was a great guy, but you're like, Joseph, if you could have just zipped it and not bragged in front of your brothers about this dream you had of you ruling them. And like, oh, look what dad gave me. Oh, he didn't give you this robe like Joseph, maybe like, be quiet. You're yourself sold into slavery. Which he did.
- [12:46]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Right.
- [12:48]
Molly
But as moms, we get to encourage our boys, even like an overly talky, chatty boy. Hey, I love hearing your stories, but sometimes if you exhaust your listener, then I'm not available to listen and pay attention when you've got something really great to say, you know, and that's a loving thing to tell an overly chatty boy, because as they get older and they make friends or even girlfriends later or whatever in the workplace, people aren't going to care enough about our kids to tell them that they're just going to peace out and it's going to harm them in the future. So we really just have this incredible opportunity as moms to just minister to our boys and also encourage them for where they are gifted and show them that they're loved unconditionally, even when sometimes they're extra, you know, but we all are, and that's okay.
- [13:36]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah, yeah. We. We have one that's. He's. We feel like the traits that he has are really going to serve him well later, but it's. It's hard in a group. Do you know, I don't know if you have one or if every family has one that's like, you don't function well in a group.
- [13:54]
Lisa
You're kind of.
- [13:55]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
You always have your own ideas, your own thing, and you're probably a leader. It's probably what it is. But you still live here, you know, like, that's. That's a. That's a challenge when they have very strong ideas, very ambitious, like, not stopping at anything to make this happen. But also, like, we have plans today, and I'm sorry we didn't consult you on that. Do you know what I mean? Totally. So that can be a dynamic with a lot of boys, too. What do you feel like are some challenges that boys face in today's culture and some of the misconceptions, the worldly misconceptions about boys that we see?
- [14:37]
Molly
I think there's a lot. And, you know, it doesn't really surprise me. You see, we're living in this age of gender confusion, and sometimes you look back and you're like, gosh, how did this even begin? And you notice, gosh, boys and boyhood and masculinity is really getting pummeled. And if you're telling little boys as they get older that that's toxic and that, you know, the future is female, and if they don't have a positive worldview or positive messaging about being a boy, it's almost not surprising that so many of them are, you know, in conjunction with these social media contagions that are going on, it's. It's almost not surprising that they're looking for a way out, which is so tragic and sad. But, yeah, all of these. These voices saying masculinity is toxic. Can you imagine if people wore shirts around that said the future is male? Like, everyone would lose it. But I can't, you know, I. Yeah.
- [15:35]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
There'S a lot of things women can say that men can't, which I. I've thought a lot about. Just there's certain, like, rants that people will go on. On social media. And you're like, if a man said that. But what is interesting, just kind of going back to the whole gender thing. It's interesting that it's usually the other way around in today's culture. Like, it's more that the females. I think the social contagion that I've read about is more in the other direction. And I wonder what culturally is causing that to happen too. There's a lot of confusion in our world today.
- [16:10]
Molly
Yeah, it's so interesting. Yeah, it does go the other way, too, for sure. And it's, you know, it just makes you wonder if these kids had a positive community, like a robust community life, and their family was that center for them. They always belong in their family, and their parents are teaching them, you know, a good worldview, then the data really shows that they're way less likely to kind of fall into that, especially if they're not spending all that time on there. So, yeah, it's really interesting. I do think it's going be one of those kind of trends that we look back at in a couple years and everyone's like, how did, how did we get there? But anyway.
- [16:53]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah, well, you talk about in your book and talking about belonging to a family, that one of the most positive indicators. There's huge data on sitting down to a family dinner, which sounds very simple. And I think sometimes too it can be challenging, especially when you have a wide age range like ours. Isn't this peaceful moment or this peaceful 30 minutes or an hour? We have eight children from 16 down to age 2. And so there's always something spilled. There's always possibly someone throwing a fit. There's somebody getting up from their, you know, there's, there's like, there's things. But it, it's still a habit that we've always had. We've, we've carved out that time to where I would say six nights out of seven, maybe more, we are sitting down together as a family. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of that?
- [17:49]
Molly
Absolutely, yeah. It's so huge and something that is so simple that people often overlook it. But there's a Harvard therapist who actually said, you know, I would be out of a job if more families sat down to regular family dinners. Because most of what we accomplished in therapy actually just happened naturally over the course of family dinners. And I thought that was just so powerful. Having family dinners together creates more resilient kids with higher self esteem. And despite lots of research that supports the powerful impact of family dinners, 60% of families don't do it. They don't have regular.
- [18:28]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
That is a surprising stat I take for granted because I grew up with family dinners. At least not, definitely not seven nights out of the week because we had a lot of sports and there's things going on. But I'd say two or three nights a week there was a family dinner. And probably for many years there was more than that. You know how it is when you remember back, you're probably thinking of like one year, I know we sat down to family dinners and we sit down and my sisters all sit down with their families. So I'm like, who really? Six of 10 families aren't sitting down for family dinner? That's, that's very surprising.
- [19:00]
Molly
I know. I think part of it too is maybe the community you're in, but I know there are a Lot of families, like in larger cities where there's a lot of traffic and then a lot of after school activities or people having different work schedules where they're like, gosh, I would love that. But you know, I work nights or you know, kids have different sports and so what I encourage people to do is just, it doesn't have to be fancy. First of all, it doesn't have to even be dinner. Like if you want to make it breakfast, if everyone's home at breakfast time, wake up a little early or you know, if after school you want to do lay out a blanket on the lawn or just sit around the table and have popsicles and make some popcorn or whatever. It's just getting your family around the.
- [19:41]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Table is a daily gathering. It doesn't matter the time. Because I do know families that the husband works late and so the kids are in bed before the husband gets home. Well, likely if that's the case, he goes, also goes to work late and they instead do a family breakfast. Which is the same. Yeah, the same thing, you know, it's same, same benefits. I agree with you. So yeah, I can understand when there's not always. And I do want to say too, because I, I know some young moms who in order to have like a peaceful dinner, put the, the one year old or the two year old to bed and then, then they have dinner together, honestly. And you might disagree with me, but I say do that because you have so many years where that won't be the case right now you can get away with it. They're not going to even remember. I think you get a little pass for a few years and then when they're a little older and they can remember then do family dinner. But I don't think, I think there was some mom who was just like, oh no, we put our two year old to bed and then we have dinner. No, like that's, that's going to be okay.
- [20:43]
Molly
Okay. Yeah, you're going to be okay. It's so funny because, you know, when I, I think before I had kids I had envisioned, you know, the dinner table looking a little different. I wanted, I knew I wanted a ton of kids. I knew I wanted great dinners. I didn't realize how chaotic that dinner time could be just to get the food on the table and get the kids in their seats, especially when they're real little like that. So yeah, take the break where you need to. It's wearing it for the long game. I just remember there was a season when we would get everyone around the table. And I'd finally get the food on the table, and, you know, one of the kids immediately had to go to the bathroom.
- [21:18]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
That happens every. Every time. Or you forget. You forget somebody's water cup and they're.
- [21:22]
Molly
Thirsty or someone spills milk and you're.
- [21:24]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Like, happened today because we have lunch and dinner together, and at lunch today, the milk is always spilled. There's no chance you're not spilling at least one. I mean, you have 10 people. One in 10, 10% of the time, there's going to be. The cup is going to spill. Just account for that when you order your milk.
- [21:43]
Molly
That's so good. Yeah, that makes sense, actually, like, statistically.
- [21:47]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
But also statistically, you're going to sp. Cup of milk. I remember when I was a kid, my grandpa would say, all right, just get it over with. Who's gonna just pour their cup out so we can just get it over?
- [21:55]
Molly
It's so true. Well, and there's something really powerful about the realness of that, like, for our kids to see, like, oh, I spilled the milk again. Oh, Mom's mad. And you're like, gosh, guys, come on. You know, if you slip up and you kind of get upset about it and then you wipe it up, I always do.
- [22:10]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
I'm like, why?
- [22:11]
Molly
Why? And then you smooth it over, and if you, you know, if you really blew it and you're like, I'm sorry. Sorry about that. Glad everything's cleaned up. We're good. That interaction, that repairing and showing them that, yeah, we all make mistakes and it stinks for a second, and you clean it up and we're good. That's beautiful. That's a little bit.
- [22:31]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
That's all part of the function of the family dinner.
- [22:33]
Molly
Exactly. It all works together. And my husband and I, after dinner, we got six kids here, and some of the dinners are a little chaotic. And we will. Oftentimes at the end, we're like, hey, let's. Let's go sit out front. Let's go sit in the front yard in our chairs. And, you know, when. When we're done. And then the kids will take care of the dishes. But sometimes we just need a breather after because it does get a little bit hectic. So I hope this encourages you. If you're listening or watching, just. You're not alone. If it feels hectic, like it's. There are going to be hectic parts. But for. For every eight hectic moments or eight hectic dinners, you're going to get two little golden nuggets that are just making core memories for your kids.
- [23:12]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yes, absolutely. And back to the toddler and the baby thing. There are times where we don't get to dinner until 7 o' clock and the baby only napped till 2 and literally just last night I had to put the baby to bed before we ate dinner. Like he had eaten stuff already because the other kids got home late with my husband and so we all sit down together. But if the baby's tired, taking him out of the situation is also going to make it to the other kids that are making the core memories are able to enjoy it a little bit more. Taking out the screaming child. That's not a hill I'm going to die on.
- [23:51]
Molly
No. That's so good. Yeah, good word.
- [23:54]
Lisa
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- [24:49]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
My kids always like it when there's.
- [24:50]
Lisa
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Lisa
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- [26:57]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
That's SelectQuote.com farmhouse yes okay, in the book you highlight eight critical things boys need. Can you discuss a few of these topics?
- [27:08]
Molly
Yes. The first one I started with was belonging. Our kids need to know that they belong, that their family, they will always belong in their family. They are unconditionally loved. They are fully known here. And really that's a reflection of how God is towards us. That's how he feels about us. So that's really what we get to reflect in our young boys and giving them that foundation. That's why I wanted to start the book there. Just because everything really comes through that lens of just knowing our kids, they always have a place no matter how much they blow it. The second thing is relationships and I kind of break that down into eye contact, conversation, conflict, self forgetfulness, how to walk our boys through these things in the day to day mess, in the difficult moments, in the spilled milk, in the forgotten shoes or the laundry piles. And I think if I could go back and tell my younger mom self one thing. I would say stop stressing out and trust God, because he's doing a work. In those messy little moments, he's doing a work. When you're in your PJs and your kids spit up again and you can't get out the door, like, he's doing a work and you're doing these things. If you're a little intentional, you have to do the things anyway, right? You got to do the laundry, you got to do the. The pickup and drop off and all of these things. The dishes. And this book is really about cranking up the intentionality in those moments in really simple ways that don't add a lot of work. It's just. Just being a little thoughtful. And in that we can give our kids these things. But anyway, skipping a rock through some of those other things. Authority. Teaching our boys to respect authority. Tim Keller said that respect for a mother and father is the foundation of your respect for every other kind of authority. And if you ask teachers today, they'll tell you, like, gosh, I don't know what has happened, but these kids are not respecting teachers. Like, they used to like what is going on. And I think that kids are just not. It's not being instilled in kids the way it used to be. You know, we used to have this, like, collective set of values in our world, and they were reflected on tv, they were reflected in sitcoms. And right now you can get any sort of content anywhere, and we're not really getting that shared sense of culture. So how do we teach our boys to respect authority? Because that's going to serve them the rest of their life. And it's not all dry because it's also one of the other eight things is fun. How do we teach our boys to have a good sense of humor? The kind of humor that you don't need to just save for the bathroom. And a lot of little boys, like, love that potty humor. But I'm like, we can educate good humor in our boys, and that's okay. Bravery, tenderness and creativity. And then the last thing is emotional durability.
- [29:46]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah, all. All such important things. You talked about connection and connecting with, with your sons. I think this is a place where a lot of moms, especially moms of many kids or people who are thinking about having a lot of kids, this is where they struggle and think that it's not going to be possible to connect to multiple children. I know you have a lot of kids. How do you answer that one?
- [30:12]
Molly
It's as you go. And I would say feel encouraged. Look for opportunities that are simple. You know, sometimes if you have just a few kids, you can say, yeah, me and this kid, we do this special day long outing, you know, every month or whatever. And I'm like, that's not really feasible with six kids. So I recommend lots of things in the book that are just simple. Like if, if I'm running to the grocery store and my husband's home, I'll just pick one kid. Sometimes I'll pick the hardest kid right now, the kid that's we're butting heads the most or just a, you know, a few five minute walk. You would just be amazed at how much that fills your little guy's tank for a five minute walk. If you got to take the dog out anyway or if you're doing a chore, it's like, hey, you don't need to help me with this, but you want to come hang out with me. Our kids are 100% invested in their relationships with their parents and with their mom, specifically when they're little. And the sad reality is that as they get older that might not be the case. So we want to take advantage of these years. I think Sally Clarkson says there's like a ten year magic window of influence in our kids hearts and it's between 4 and 14 because they still think we're awesome. So I'm all about capitalizing on that. And really just very simple. I'm folding a basket of laundry. You want to come hang out. And just to encourage the heart of the mom listening. If folding the laundry in your room is your break, like that's okay if you're not into it, but if you can spirit, if you can muster a moment to just push through and invite that one kid in, I promise you're going to be so glad you did. It's just, it's you're making these core memories for your kids and that's what they're going to remember when you're long gone and they're going to want to pour that into their kids. So it's just, it's incredible how simple it can be to just form that connection with our kiddos.
- [32:04]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah. And there's an importance too with sibling relationships and talking about the belonging in a family and having that sense of connection with your family. There's in a larger family that does get split in a lot of ways because they also spend a lot of time connecting with siblings, which I think does create that same sense of belonging. And you Will find. I'm sure you found this with your kids. There are certain ones that need more attention and they hang around you because they need it. And there are certain ones that just don't seem to, you know, they'll be off playing something and in their little world, they're not necessarily needing you to step in as much as one that during different seasons, seems to just always be right there.
- [32:53]
Molly
Yeah, that's so true and relatable.
- [32:55]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yes. We had lots of questions from the audience about just so many, so many boy questions. And you know, of course we, we have things with boys that tend to happen more than with girls. Like, how can we help young boys manage anger and big emotions without yelling, hitting, or shutting down?
- [33:17]
Molly
That is so real. I think the most important thing is just remembering it's a long game. So as much as we want, like the one time correction to result in our kids going like, oh, yeah, I will fix that. I will never do it again. It is over. That's just not gonna happen. It takes a long time and so much training for them to change and to get that and to really instill that in our kids. So I would just say stay the course. Don't give up on your boys. A lot of these boys can be impulsive and angry, and I think that consequences are critically important and really helpful to our kids. So, you know, I'm thinking about when my kids all know that the quickest way to never get what they want is to throw a tantrum about it when they're asking for something. You know, when we'd be in a store or can I please have this? No. And then they flip out. It's like, oh, well, there was, there was no chance. Now, like, you've automatically kind of cut your feet out from under you. So.
- [34:17]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah. It doesn't mean they'll stop throwing the fit though, unfortunately.
- [34:20]
Molly
But then they might remember next time. Yeah. Or after the next 10th time. After you 10 times. Yeah. And that's okay. But stay the course.
- [34:29]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yes. I have one that's especially in that stage right now. And I. I won't give in. But yet still, he's gonna probably do it again next time. But that, I think over the long haul does eventually teach them that.
- [34:43]
Molly
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:44]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
The fit doesn't help. Lots of questions about focus in school and motivation because this seems to be something that boys struggle with more than girls. And I think there is some cultural components here of expectations on just being able to put everybody in the same box. But how can we motivate boys to Engage in schoolwork without constant struggle or resistance.
- [35:10]
Molly
Oh, that is so real. We homeschooled. I homeschooled our kids for a hot minute a couple years ago. And this is before COVID And one of My sons was 7 at the time, and he was in second grade. And I just remember feeling so frustrated because that kid could not sit for beans. And I'm like, hey, man, we gotta get through your stuff. And I finally actually talked to a therapist about it, and he's like, okay, well, how long will he sit and, like, pay attention? And I'm like, probably five minutes at a time. He's like, okay, so that's what he can give you right now. So you have five minutes at a time, and that's what he has to give. And I didn't particularly like that answer, to be honest with you, but it was a good reminder. Like, oh, this is where he is, and that's what I'm working with. And God already knew that, and that's fine. And I will tell you that that kiddo who could not sit and could not focus is, like, now a teenager and just doing phenomenally well. Straight. A kid can totally focus at school. That's just what he had to give at that time. And it kind of goes back to what you just said about these expectations we have for all of our kids to have the same amount of attention to pay, and they just don't. They're wired differently, and we're working with what we have. I would also say a really good part of motivating our kids is letting them. Letting them fail. I remember as a kid, no, I was the fourth of four kids, and my parents were. This was like the 90s. They weren't super involved. They were great parents, had an incredible childhood. But it was like, if I didn't do my homework, I remember learning in first or second grade, like, oh, no one's going to ask. I'm just going to get a bad grade. That's not that fun. Better work hard. And so I've kind of done that with my kids. Like, I don't over. I don't keep track of their assignments that's on them. And they're all wholly motivated. I have a last thing I guess I'll say about motivation is that same teenage boy I was talking about earlier had a book he was supposed to read for English class over the summer, and summer's coming to a close, and the other night we were in the car, I was driving him and a buddy, and he's like, man, I think I'm behind in my reading. And the buddy was like, oh, yeah, I actually read it once alone. And then my dad and I went over it to get the deeper meanings. And my son was like, oh man. Okay. I'm like, hey, if you want, you could like, wake up a little. I know you could sleep to 11 if you, if I let you. But if you want to set your alarm, you can wake up and spend some time in the morning. And I kind of just said it on the fly. I didn't require him to do it. It was just an idea. And the next morning he set his alarm, he was up, he was like, can I get the audio version? I want to read it at the same time. And he just, like, he just did it. And so I think there was a couple components there. One was he knew that it was up to him. Two was, you know, giving them ideas but without kind of helicoptering them. And the third one, which I really liked was when those kids spend time with other kids who are, you know, doing great, be selective about who your kids spend time with. They're. They're going to become like the people they spend time with. So I think that, I think those are all really good ways to help instill motivation in your boys.
- [38:13]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah, my parents did the same thing when we were kids. I remember a lot of my peers and friends, they would say things like, oh, oh, if I don't do this, my dad's gonna say this or my mom's gonna say this. And me being like, I don't think my mom even knows I have this assignment. Like, that was, that was just on us. And I was asking my, I've talked to my younger siblings about this and she said same thing. Like she remembers Pierce, the parents, you know, really like knowing everything and then ours kind of just expecting that, you know, and it, it honestly worked. And maybe that wouldn't work. I'm sure that wouldn't work for all kids, but for every, all of us, which my parents have girls and I, I think they could see that we're all fairly self motivated people. But they didn't check in and ask. It just was like, I mean, it's, it's on you if you're not gonna, you know. And maybe that is like more of a, a 90s thing like you said. But then also I, I do know some peers who, it seemed like the only way that they would do anything was if they were prompted by their parents to do it.
- [39:17]
Molly
You know, that's true. And I do wonder for Those kids, like, if they were allowed to fail.
- [39:25]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah, I wonder that too.
- [39:26]
Molly
At some point. Yeah.
- [39:27]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Would they have just done it?
- [39:29]
Molly
I think they would have. I think they would have because I, I will tell you, no one's coming to me for. There's a, you know, I'm not great at everything. I've got strengths and weaknesses here. And my kids aren't perfect. We're all human beings. But my kids, we got a pretty good sample size. They're all over. We got six kids. They're all over the map of, like, what they can do and all that. But they are all motivated to do well in school because that. We celebrate that in our home. Like, we will recognize a kid at the dinner table or in the car ride. Be like, this kid did such a good job. They worked hard. Also. I guess another thing I would add is praising hard work because you can't really control how smart you came out, you know?
- [40:08]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Right. Yeah, exactly. But hard work can account for a lot of.
- [40:13]
Molly
Yeah. And hard work, honestly, it really trumps intelligence any day. Like you give me, I rather have a team of the hardest workers in.
- [40:19]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
The smart city does.
- [40:21]
Molly
So. Yeah. I think that is also really helpful and motivating to kids when you're praising around, just around the house, praising the traits, noticing out in the world and in culture, these people who exhibit traits that you value, you know, hard work, humility, honesty, noticing heroes and people like, people, you know, like kids start to admire those virtues when you're celebrating it.
- [40:46]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah. And at some point, the goal of parenting is to launch kids as adults. And moms aren't going to be calling your children when they're. I don't know what age. This might be different for everybody. But hey, did you turn in your, your property tax? Did you pay your, your, your, you know, just. There's so many things that. Did you, did you get insurance on that new car you bought? Nobody's going to, you know, they're not. If you're a successful parent, at some point, that's not going to be on you anymore. And I guess that's. That's a whole different conversation on how you slowly let that go and at what point. But I do think when they're more responsible for certain things, then they will have to find the motivation or else suffer the consequences.
- [41:35]
Molly
Yeah, absolutely. So. And it's almost a little freeing, too, because it's like, wait, are we saying to do less for our kids? And in that regard, I think, yes, I think.
- [41:44]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Well, there's. Yeah, there's a Lot of conversation on that these days too. When it comes to giving kids independence and what we allow them to do, we live in a very fearful culture and don't allow kids to spread their wings because we're worried. And I mean, I'm balancing that myself. My oldest child has the driver's license now and can go places, you know, all alone, which she already could go places alone, but I would usually drop her off and not have to worry that there's going to be an accident. But that's part of life. Do I think it would be wise to just, you know, lock her up and tell her she can't go anywhere?
- [42:24]
Lisa
No.
- [42:27]
Molly
Yeah, exactly. I know. I've read these accounts of like college administrators complaining that parents will literally call to complain about their kids grades in college and like get involved. Yeah, that's, that's holding on too long, Court man. You know.
- [42:44]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah, that's one of the hardest parts of parenting. You know, we talk about things with, with toddlers a lot and little kids and it's just, it's so manageable. It's so manageable, you know, it's so true. You have to just let them go.
- [43:03]
Lisa
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Podcast Host (Lisa)
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Lisa
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- [46:05]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
So okay, and on that same topic, how do we teach boys to notice messes or unfinished tasks instead of just responding to instructions?
- [46:18]
Molly
Oh my gosh, that is so real. I'm living that out right now. And one of the things my kids hear me say a lot, especially my boys, although one of my girls is like this too. They hear me say it will always be more work to not do it right the first time. So like if my boys leave a mess out, like if they made themselves a sandwich and then just left out and kind of peaced out, everything's left, they have to come back, clean that up and then they have to do another chore around the kitchen.
- [46:48]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Okay, so you make it harder.
- [46:49]
Molly
Yeah, yeah, I make it harder. I want to Incentivize them. Like, I want them to think, no, it's going to be so much less work if I just take care of my stuff here. And it, you know, in the. After so much repetition there, they start to pick it up. You know, I got some kids who are picking it up and some kids who aren't picking it up, but they're picking up the load elsewhere when they're taking on an extra chore for leaving their stuff out. I think another really helpful thing in this area is for my boys we've assigned. I think I learned this from Sally Clarkson. Honestly, we. Rather than, like, switching around the chores, we'll have my oldest son. He takes out the trash every day. He takes out the kitchen trash. And that's just his thing. And it doesn't move. And there's no question as to, oh, whose turn is it? And so he knows, and he's trying to. And he's starting to, oh, it's full. I'll take it out. Rather than waiting for, hey, buddy, the trash is full. Can you take it out? So I guess I would just encourage moms, too, that it takes a lot of repetition and a lot of learning, but they will get it if you stick with it. They really will.
- [47:53]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah. And I think, too, someday, when it's their own house, that will be different as well. Like we were saying before, anytime you have ownership of something, it feels very different because I'm a female, and I know this question's about males, but I was not that kid. Like, I. And. And I. I can see this in pretty much all of my kids. They're not ones to notice. They're not super particular kids. Like, they're not noticing a mess. They'll help. They'll do anything, but they literally don't notice it. And I was the same way as a kid, but then when I got my own house, my own space, I cared a lot more. So I think just maybe if. If this never happens and you never feel like they notice, just trust that it might be okay later.
- [48:38]
Molly
That's such a good thing. That. That's such a good reminder, because I'm thinking back to, like, college when I was in college visiting my college boyfriend, now husband visiting his, like, apartment, shared apartment with multiple boys, or, like, fraternity house. That those places were so gross. Like, you would think, yeah, this is probably normal. Health department was gonna, like, condemn those places. You know, I remember these boys leaving, like. Like, dishes for weeks in the sink. Like, so gross. Just playing a game of chicken. Like, who's gonna get grossed out first and wash it.
- [49:11]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
But.
- [49:11]
Molly
So I guess I'm trying to be encouraging to moms. To your point that. Yeah. When they have. Maybe they have to go through that and go, hey, this is kind of sick. I don't like this.
- [49:21]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Right? This is gross.
- [49:21]
Lisa
No girls want to come over here.
- [49:23]
Molly
Yeah, exactly.
- [49:24]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Natural consequences. They all think we're disgusting.
- [49:27]
Molly
There you go. But at least they'll know, like, hey, my mom did teach me how to, like, fold and put away laundry. My mom did teach me how to load a dishwasher. I know how to wipe down the counter. I know how to scrub the toilet. And maybe they'll just kind of tap into those parts once they have flown the coop. I don't know. But you're doing a good deed anyway, Mom.
- [49:46]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah. And I don't give up. I am like you. I'm always giving them chores to do. I'm always reminding them, hey, we don't leave a path. That's one of the things I say to my boys. We don't leave a path. I should not be able to see where you've been, because I can. You know, the drawer's still open. The. The cords are still pulled out. Like, I know exactly where you've been, and we don't do that. And it. It might seem like it's never making any difference, but I. I do think that it can't hurt to try, right? I mean, what else can you do?
- [50:16]
Molly
It is making a difference. It totally is. And, yeah, I tell my kids sometimes, like, pretend like there's a detective that's gonna come in the kitchen when you're done.
- [50:25]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Be so easy to tell.
- [50:26]
Molly
There should be no evidence. There should be no evidence you were.
- [50:29]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
There you go, that's a good idea. Turn it into kind of a fun game. Yeah, this. This question really kind of cracked me up. It says, how much chaos is normal in a house full of boys? And how do we balance structure with their natural energy?
- [50:43]
Molly
Oh, man, a ton.
- [50:45]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
I think it's just normal.
- [50:47]
Molly
It's just normal. Chaos is the name of the game. And I think, you know, I think that's why community. Like, for me, that's local church. But I think that's why community is so important, because even for moms, like, we're in this social media culture where sometimes we look at the beautiful perfect on Instagram, and I actually really appreciate those accounts because they're aspirational. They give you, you know, recipe ideas or homemaking tips or things that are good, helpful things. But sometimes we can see Those and just assume that that's the only. That's the whole story, and that's never the whole story. We're all human beings. We all have sin in our hearts. Moms, dads, kids. And we're trying to get through this thing together. And so I just think that community, where you can share your junk, you can process questions and kind of share with people, realize you're totally normal. And here's a couple tips and some breadcrumbs. These are working for me. And that's really what I hope this book is. I hope that. I hope moms read this in community, and I hope they feel encouraged that they're not alone and they're not crazy and their boys aren't weirdos. They're just normal boys growing up, and we're all just trying to be faithful to our calling to mother them. So, yes, if chaos is the name of the game, welcome to the club. You're normal. You're one of us. Boy moms. And it's beautiful. And I remember babysitting when I was, like, a teenager, babysat for this family. They had three boys, and the mom was, like, cool as a cucumber. And she would leave, go to work, and I would babysit those boys. They were jumping off the roof into the pool.
- [52:23]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
She was cool as a cucumber. There's things that my boys do now, and anybody. There's people in my life who, when they're around, they're not around enough, and they step in really quick, and I'm like, see, I didn't even see that as a problem yet. But that's because I've just. I've seen that so many times that I'm. I'm unfazed at this point. And. Yeah, that's what happened to that mom. That's why she was cool. Or was she always cool? Yeah. No.
- [52:48]
Molly
I don't know. To be honest, I don't think I stuck around as their babysitter long enough to find out. I'm like, I think I'm good on the pool, jumping from the roof. So I didn't. Yeah, I didn't babysit very much after that. But you don't know.
- [53:01]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Like, is this something that you're allowed to do as a babysitter? But I have. I have had that observation more recently because of the. Just the natural amount of chaos that is having six small or six boys, 12 and under. And then my sister also has six boys, 10 and under. Yes. And so when we're together, there'll be certain people who will be like, oh, hey. And we're like, oh, we don't step in at that point. That's, you know, that's the threshold there. I think that there's a certain level of, you know, just kind of, you see it a lot and you just know, like, okay, we no longer have to.
- [53:45]
Molly
Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking of we. When one of my boys was like four or three, we went to a fancy birthday party and it was like a, it was a one year old's birthday, but it was like it was some neighbors and they were from a different culture. It was like an Indian family, really nice people, best food ever. But I didn't appreciate that everyone was very dressed up, it was like very formal. And so we come in with our like jean shorts. Like, I didn't know it was like a one year old's birthday party and it's in the backyard and everyone's so fancy. So I was already feeling a little, I mean, I had four kids, five and under at this point. It was wild. But my three or four year old son, I remember in the, he was like potty training and it was summer and he was like going in the backyard a lot, just like peeing in the bushes. And I am talking with these moms and all of a sudden I, I, they look like horrified behind me and I turn around and my little son at this nice party is going to the bathroom in the bushes. And I was like, this is so mortifying. Like, I don't know what you even do with this. So anyway, that was like a very embarrassing story that I couldn't even believe. I'm like, this is, this could not get any worse and more mortifying. But all of that to say the chaos, the insanity, the stories that you're like, no one has ever gone through this. This is horrible. That's just part of it. That's just part of the mothering, boys. And welcome to the club. We're in it together.
- [55:19]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Well, I do think you, you talked about finding community and when your community is social media. And I had Ruth Ann Zimmerman on the podcast recently and she talked a lot too. Like the natural village that we used to have where we actually knew people in real life. And so we were able to see their messes and see their chaos has been replaced for a polished version, which is fine if you're still having other community, but if you're not, it gives you a very warped sense of reality to where you're only, you know, I'm. Why would anybody share boy chaos? On social media. But you should share that with your real life friends and you should have real life friends that you can actually talk to and bounce ideas and real things off of and it shouldn't be replaced by something so artificial.
- [56:14]
Molly
Yeah, that is so true. And it's a good point that we're kind of both, maybe the hazards for both moms and kids of displacing real connection with the digital world, which can obviously have an incredible role. You're encouraging so many moms. Your reach is so great and there are a lot of women and mothers that are sharing great resources online. But like you said, it can't displace our entire community. We need each other. We were wired to connect. We were wired to get together over the table with friends, with other moms, with, with older moms, and ask them, am I going to survive this thing? And here's this really kind of sad, stressful thing that happened or chaotic thing, or this son's going through this struggle. What do I do? And that's really where the real life, real living happens.
- [57:06]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yes. So much great encouragement. Can you tell the listeners where to find your new book and where to follow along with you and your encouragement that you bring?
- [57:18]
Molly
Absolutely. You can find the book anywhere books are sold. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, it's all over online. I think you get it at Target and Walmart online. The book is mothering eight things your son needs from you before he turns 10. And you can find me on Instagram, you can find me at my website, molitafrank.com and I'd love to hear from you. So I hope the book blesses you. Grab it, read it with a friend. I hope you feel really encouraged after reading it.
- [57:48]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Yeah. So good. Maybe you could start a little book club with you and all of your boy mom friends. That sounds like a good way to build that community. Thank you so much, Molly.
- [57:56]
Molly
Thanks for having me.
- [57:59]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Thanks as always for listening to the Simple Farmhouse Life podcast. My husband Luke and I and our eight kids work together side by side on our little homestead and use our blog, podcast and YouTube channel to reach other homemakers, home cooks and homesteaders with practical recipes and daily family life. For everyday sourdough recipes, make sure to check out our blog, farmassomboon.com and to dig deeper, we do also offer a course called Simple Sourdough over at bitvit. Ly FarmhouseSourdo course. That's all one word. Bit ly FarmhouseSourdo course. If you're looking to learn how we.
- [58:34]
Lisa
Earn an income online.
- [58:35]
Podcast Host (Lisa)
Check out my YouTube course at Bitcoin Ly Farmhouse. YouTube course? All one word.