3b:I[58016,["/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0abq8zp15pmva.js","/_next/static/chunks/05gz47kazl1ze.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0fg30bidui1gn.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/0bbc2ioe2xmkf.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"ProcessEpisodeButton"] 3d:I[185,["/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0abq8zp15pmva.js","/_next/static/chunks/05gz47kazl1ze.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0fg30bidui1gn.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/0bbc2ioe2xmkf.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"SendEmailButton"] 3e:I[45269,["/_next/static/chunks/0jjo8hz~ewue4.js","/_next/static/chunks/0abq8zp15pmva.js","/_next/static/chunks/05gz47kazl1ze.js","/_next/static/chunks/139o5utivfajl.js","/_next/static/chunks/0a~e7k..h6jfc.js","/_next/static/chunks/0d1e9m2ig9v3v.js","/_next/static/chunks/0fg30bidui1gn.js","/_next/static/chunks/0rizq9ux3s1w3.js","/_next/static/chunks/0bbc2ioe2xmkf.js","/_next/static/chunks/0z7avafhgjcyr.js"],"SignupCTA"] 35:["$","div",null,{"className":"flex flex-col gap-2 text-sm text-muted-foreground","children":[["$","span",null,{"className":"inline-flex items-center gap-2 bg-secondary/50 px-3 py-1 rounded-full","children":[["$","svg",null,{"className":"w-4 h-4","fill":"none","stroke":"currentColor","viewBox":"0 0 24 24","children":["$","path",null,{"strokeLinecap":"round","strokeLinejoin":"round","strokeWidth":2,"d":"M8 7V3m8 4V3m-9 8h10M5 21h14a2 2 0 002-2V7a2 2 0 00-2-2H5a2 2 0 00-2 2v12a2 2 0 002 2z"}]}],["$","time",null,{"dateTime":"2025-04-14T14:01:00.000Z","children":"Mon Apr 14 2025"}]]}],null]}] 3c:T550,

Rory Sutherland, Vice Chairman of Ogilvy UK, and Nicholas Gruen, CEO of Lateral Economics, have both returned to debate the efficacy and limitations of applying systems thinking to complex problems.

Resources and links:

Connect:

This show is produced in collaboration with Wavelength Creative. Visit wavelengthcreative.com for more information.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nicholas Gruen vs Rory Sutherland