Can a Marriage Survive When a Partner Won’t Change? Plus: Mel Robbins Wants Our Advice!

Summary

Since You Asked with Lori Gottlieb and Gretchen Rubin

Episode: Can a Marriage Survive When a Partner Won’t Change? Plus: Mel Robbins Wants Our Advice!
Date: October 7, 2025
Production: Lemonada Media

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Overview

This episode dives into thorny dilemmas about loyalty, forgiveness, accepting (or not) the quirks and flaws of loved ones, and balancing self-care with social obligations. Lori and Gretchen respond to listener questions and comments about messy romantic entanglements, the eternal struggle of dishwasher etiquette, and what to do when a long-term partner just can’t (or won’t) change a frustrating trait. Special guest Mel Robbins turns the tables by asking the hosts for advice about her own work-life-rest dilemmas.

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Key Discussion Points

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1. Lessons on Loyalty: When “Speaking Up” is Not Your Place

• Listener Response (01:16-02:15):
  • A follow-up to a previous episode: A listener nearly told her friend to break up with a partner she deemed a bad match, based on her own failed relationship.
  • She resisted and later realized everyone’s relationships are different:

    "Just because that was my experience or my view, it does not apply to everyone. That was a valuable lesson for me on many fronts." (01:31)

  • Hosts' take:
    • “It’s a great reminder for all of us. We’re different and we want different things and we don’t always know how things are going to turn out for other people.” – Lori (02:05)
    • “We debate this so much because we don’t know what the outcome’s going to be.” – Gretchen (02:15)

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2. Handling Friendship Imbalance and Setting Realistic Expectations

• Listener Nick’s Update (03:02-04:11):
  • Nick previously struggled with a friend who always canceled plans, leaving Nick to make all the effort.
  • After taking the hosts’ advice, Nick realized the friend’s behavior wasn't a reflection of the friendship’s value and decided the friendship was worth putting in extra effort.
  • “It’s not necessarily a reflection on our relationship or his feelings about me...I have to work with that and set the right expectations.” – Nick (03:29)
  • “This comes up for a lot of people.” – Lori (04:04)

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3. Main Dilemma: Messy Cheating, Friend Group Fallout, and Moral Boundaries

Listener Question from Raya (04:34-06:06)

• Complicated scenario involving her boyfriend’s roommate (Jack) cheating on her (Raya’s) roommate, resulting in intense fallout and shifting loyalties.
• Jack and the other woman have not apologized; the boyfriend urges forgiveness.
• Raya’s struggle: How to reduce relational strain without betraying her values.

Lori & Gretchen’s Analysis (06:06-13:08)

• Layers of Conflict:
  • Cheating + lack of apology = loyalty crisis.
  • Intense “found family” dynamics in roommate years.
  • Ongoing group tension, especially since Jack/Carly socialize in shared spaces.
• Key Insights & Quotes:
  • “If she becomes friends with Jack and Carly or accepts them, she’s saying ‘I forgive you or it’s okay.’ And that goes to her values and her loyalty...” – Gretchen (06:10)
  • “Your roommates are like family to you. And so these actions are having very significant ripple effects.” – Lori (06:39)
  • “Maybe Jack isn’t saying anything because he doesn’t know how or he doesn’t know what he would say...It’s cowardly. But people are human.” – Gretchen (10:01)
  • Raya’s boyfriend’s stance needs examining: “Does he feel cheating isn’t a big deal? Or is he just loyal to his roommate?” – Gretchen (08:02)
  • “Have a serious, calm, reflective conversation and talk...about how this has affected your relationship.” – Gretchen (07:04)
• Concrete Advice:
  1. Talk with your boyfriend to clarify values and understand each other’s perspectives on fidelity and loyalty. (11:37)
  2. Communicate honestly with your hurt roommate: spending time in group settings is not betrayal. (09:35, 12:02)
  3. Draw boundaries around involvement and being “the messenger” between others. (12:26)
  4. Reframe group interaction as “civil coexistence” rather than forcing closeness. (12:14)
  • “Raya should not be punished for the actions of Jack and Carly.” – Lori (10:01)

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4. Wisdom of Crowds: Dishwasher Disputes (13:29-18:56)

• Survey Results: 42% argue about dishwasher etiquette; 58% do not. (13:29)
• Listener Anecdotes: Range from total harmony to silent rearrangement and tongue-in-cheek resignation.
  • “If someone else is loading the dishes beside me, I’m not complaining about how it’s done. I think that’s a good attitude.” – Valerie (14:51)
  • “I just silently rearrange. Constantly.” – Kelly (15:10)
  • “If you’re very critical of the way somebody does a task, you may be stuck doing it.” – Gretchen (16:44)
• Expert-backed dishwasher loading tips: (17:09)
  • Plates/pans on bottom, glasses/plastic on top, silverware handles down—knives blade down.
  • “Don’t use this list to tell your partner they’re doing things wrong...If it works, let them do it their way.” – Lori (18:20)

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5. Accepting Unchanging Traits in a Long Marriage

Listener Question from Andrea (22:23-23:33)

• After 25 years, Andrea wonders if her husband should just accept her “snappy” demeanor, or if she should work harder to change.

Lori & Gretchen’s Perspectives (23:33-29:56)

• Challenge: Differentiating between accepting core traits and continuing to make growth efforts.
  • “We all have traits that the other person is going to find less than ideal...Is she making a good faith effort to address the issue?” – Lori (23:33)
  • “On the one hand, we want to accept ourselves, but we also want to expect more from ourselves.” – Gretchen (24:15)
  • “If you’re doing it, it may not seem like a big deal...But for other people, it can create this atmosphere of walking on eggshells...there’s emotional contagion.” – Gretchen (26:05)
• Research: Married people often treat each other with less consideration than friends or strangers. (26:05)
• Practical Suggestions:
  • Identify triggers (hunger, tiredness, time pressure) and proactively manage them. (25:25, 27:43)
  • Enlist spouse’s help; create light-hearted reminders.
  • Don’t take close relationships for granted; use the same strategies you’d use with others to avoid snapping. (28:27)
  • Use gratitude to counteract irritation.
  • “Even a tiny improvement would show him that you care.” – Lori (27:43)
• Summary Advice (27:43, 29:05):
  • Make an honest effort; show your partner you are trying.
  • Use humor and gratitude as tools.
  • Remember, everyone adapts to some degree, but respect each other’s boundaries.

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6. Even Celebrities Need Advice: Mel Robbins’ Dilemma (30:17-39:25)

Mel’s Struggle: Rest Without Guilt

• Mel’s question: Despite her mega-success, Mel finds it hard to allow herself rest and “doing nothing” without guilt tugging at her.
  • “There’s always this nagging sense I should call my friends, I should be more social, I should do something. I just can’t allow myself to rest. I feel like I should be doing something other than just allowing myself to be.” – Mel Robbins (31:10)
  • “On those days where...I just want to be in sweatpants and no underwear and a t-shirt and no bra laying on my couch with the two dogs...I’m still constantly thinking, I haven’t gotten back to that friend...” – Mel Robbins (31:53)
• Hosts’ Response:
  • Balancing obligations vs. genuine downtime is a universal struggle.
  • Social connection is self-care. Set purposeful intentions for both socialization and rest. (32:35, 33:35)
  • “How does this guilt serve me? Because it’s not going to make me go do the other thing...We shouldn’t weigh them as one more valuable than the other.” – Lori (34:13)
  • Schedule downtime on your calendar, and treat it as non-negotiable as any work meeting or social plan. (34:54, 36:19)
  • Anticipate your own rhythms and transitions—don’t expect yourself to switch instantly from high intensity to deep rest. (37:41)
  • “Don’t feel guilty while you’re doing it. It’s on the calendar...this time has been set aside for the chillaxing.” – Gretchen (38:20)
  • Use Mel’s own “5-4-3-2-1 rule”:

    “When it’s time on your calendar to have some downtime for yourself, do your 5-4-3-2-1 rule...Time to relax. No thinking back. No guilt. Just do it.” – Lori (38:54)

• Invitation to Audience: Listeners are encouraged to share their own advice for Mel.

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7. Sneak Peek at Next Episode: Telling the Truth About Egg Donation

• Listener Dilemma: Should a parent tell her teenage daughter she was conceived via egg donation?
• The hosts ask for audience input and highlight the topic's sensitivity and importance. (39:57-40:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sometimes we have to, in life, be around people when they have past actions that we don’t approve of. And so it’s...how do you find a way to navigate that?” – Lori (09:35)
• “Married people treat each other with less consideration than they do friends or strangers. So really, they get the worst.” – Gretchen (26:05)
• “If you’re very critical of the way somebody does a task, you may be stuck doing it.” – Gretchen (16:44)
• “If it works, let them do it their way. That is our advice.” – Lori (18:20)
• “No thinking back. No guilt. Just do it.” – Lori (38:54, referencing Mel’s 5-4-3-2-1 rule)
• “Whether this podcast changes your life or just makes you laugh, we’re glad you’re here.” – Gretchen (42:15)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:16 – Listener response: Should you warn a friend about their partner?
• 03:02 – Nick’s friendship update and takeaways on effort & expectation.
• 04:34 – RAYA’s letter: Cheating, group fallout, and values.
• 06:06 – Hosts analyze Raya’s dilemma.
• 13:29 – Wisdom of Crowds: Dishwasher disputes.
• 17:09 – Expert dishwasher tips (and why not to weaponize them).
• 22:23 – Andrea: “Can you just accept this after 25 years?”
• 23:33 – Hosts on acceptance vs. effort in marriage.
• 30:17 – Mel Robbins’ advice request about rest, obligations, and guilt.
• 34:54 – Scheduling downtime as an act of self-care.
• 39:57 – Sneak peek: The ethics of telling a child about their biological origins.

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The Hosts’ Advice Themes

• Be honest and reflective in relationships: Communicate directly (but kindly) about values, pain, and boundaries.
• Don’t over-personalize someone else's behavior: Learn when to accept, when to address, and when to step back.
• Accept complexity: Sometimes you can’t resolve everything; aim for “civil coexistence” rather than perfection.
• Balance acceptance and growth: Love partners (and yourself) for who they are, but don’t use that as an excuse to avoid growth.
• Prioritize self-care and social connection: Both are valid and necessary; schedule each with intention.
• Lighten up on the small stuff: If it matters more to you (e.g., dishwasher loading), own the task without resentment; don’t get stuck on trivial disputes.

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Final Thought

This episode underscores that the business of living well—especially in relationships—is nuanced and imperfect. Sometimes you forgive. Sometimes you set boundaries. Sometimes you schedule a nap like it’s a job. Whether the problems are profound or laughably everyday, honest examination and open-hearted communication go a long way.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Poynter, Chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in New York City. I'll be talking to top researchers and clinicians and bringing vital information about midlife women's health directly to you.

[B]

100% of women go through menopause. Even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it?

[A]

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Poynter wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

Lemonada Today we're going to hear a question from our friend Mel Robbins about.

[B]

An issue she struggles with.

[D]

I just want to be in sweatpants and no underwear and a T shirt and no bra, laying on my couch with the two dogs. So what is your advice?

[B]

Hey Lori.

[C]

Hey Gretchen.

[B]

And hey, since you asked, we are underway with this podcast and we are getting so many thoughtful and interesting questions and responses. We read everything that comes in and we appreciate the engagement so much.

[C]

I know people have so many insights to share and I love this because we're all learning from each other and.

[B]

We love this response. In a previous episode, we talked about the question of whether you should speak up to a friend if you don't think that their partner is a good match for them. No red flags. You just don't think it's a good match. And we got a comment from somebody who wants to be anonymous but interesting response.

[C]

Here's what they said. Just that I would share that I came very close to doing this with my coworkers who were engaged in a relationship I had just gotten out of 15 years of marriage. She was very gregarious and outgoing. He was very solid and quiet and rigid. I debated about whether I should tell her and save her, possibly the 15 years that it took me to recognize my failed relationship. In the end, I did not do it. And their relationship is an incredibly beautiful, strong, and amazing one. It certainly taught me that just because that was my experience or my view, it does not apply to everyone. That was a valuable lesson for me on many fronts.

[B]

It's a great reminder for all of us. We're different and we want different things and we don't always know how things are going to turn out for other people. It's so nice that it has such a happy ending.

[C]

I know. It really is. I think we debate this so much because we don't know what the outcome's going to be. But I really love her experience and I think we can all learn from that.

[B]

Yeah. Well, we are back today for another round of advice. So, Lori, what are we talking about today?

[C]

Well, as always, we have some very interesting letters this week. We will talk about a messy cheating situation, dishwasher loading disputes, and whether to just accept certain annoying traits in a partner after you've been with them for a while. And we have a special treat. Our friend Mel Robbins asks our advice about a dilemma she's struggling with right now.

[B]

But before we jump in, here is a quick update from our listener, Nick. In the previous episode, we talked about his question about how he view this situation where he was spending time with a friend who wanted to see him but wasn't putting in as much effort into making plans.

[C]

And it goes like this.

[E]

Hi, Gretchen and Lori, thank you so much for your advice about my friend who tends to cancel and be hard to schedule with, where I always have to take the initiative when it comes to getting together. I found your advice super helpful and super insightful. The main takeaway for me was that it's not necessarily a reflection on our relationship or his feelings about me. And I found that super relieving. I think that was my main concern. It doesn't really bother me to be the one to make the effort to schedule. And I think the friendship is valuable enough for me to make that extra effort and I should continue to try to schedule, even if it does mean some missed plans. And I think that's what I'm going to do going forward. Like you said, just try to realize that this is how this person is. I can't change them. And I have to work with that and set the right expectations. So I still have to decide whether or not I'm going to talk to my friend about this. Like you said, it may or may not change how he behaves in the future. So as long as he's still committed to the friendship, I think I'll just go about scheduling and maybe have a backup plan just in case. Thank you again.

[B]

It's great to hear that Nick found the conversation helpful. It's something that comes up in a lot of different situations for a lot of different people.

[C]

Yeah. And I hope people apply it to other situations in their lives. And it's always great to hear back. Thank you, Nick, for letting us know how it went for you. We're so glad it was helpful.

[B]

Now, let's jump into this week's advice. Last week we gave you the question to think about. It's a question from Raya. And so since you asked Raya, let's jump into your question.

[F]

I've been Having more of a moral dilemma recently in my relationship, and I would love for your advice on the situation. So for context, I've been dating my boyfriend for a little over four months now. In the very early stages of him and I, his roommate and best friend, let's call him Jack, was seeing my roommate. About one week into my boyfriend and I officially dating, Jack cheated on my roommate. It was a very messy breakup, as most cheating related breakups are, because my roommate found texts between Jack and the girl, let's call her Carly, in which it was very clear that Carly knew my roommate was in the picture, yet proceeded anyway. Aside from being absolutely devastating to my friend and roommate, the impact of Jack and Carly's actions completely changed the dynamic of our friendships, made my living situation uncomfortable, and to this day has been a strain on my relationship with my boyfriend. After things happened, Jack and Carly kept seeing each other in secret. But recently they've become more serious and have started to hang out with our friends and are always at the house whenever I go to see my boyfriend. Jack has yet to own up to his actions or apologize for the impact it had on me. But Carly recently reached out, trying to make amends. She has expressed interest in taking responsibility for her actions, but also said that she would like to get to know me when I am ready to. I have no interest whatsoever in making amends or getting to know her, but my boyfriend has been pushing me to forgive and forget. My question is, how do I reduce the strain that this has on my relationship without feeling like I am compromising on my moral values?

[C]

Wow, Raya, that seems like a very complicated situation.

[B]

Messy.

[C]

Messy, yes. And I think what it comes down to is that it sounds like she believes that she's condoning the behavior that she's opposed to because it hurts someone close to her. And if she becomes friends with Jack and Carly or accepts them, that somehow she's saying, I forgive you or it's okay. And that goes to her values and her loyalty, and she's really struggling with that.

[B]

When you're in that stage, when you're living with roommates and everybody's hanging out together, your roommates are like a family to you.

[F]

And.

[B]

And you have all of these connections and all these different loyalties running in different ways. And so these actions are having very significant ripple effects. It's affecting Rhea as well as Jack and her roommate. And one of the issues that she's having is that Jacques hasn't acknowledged or apologized for the situation, even though it's creating all of these Complications for all of them in this group.

[C]

Yeah. And her boyfriend wants her to. She said forgive and forget, but I think what she really needs is that acknowledgement. Have a serious, calm, reflective conversation and talk to each other about how this has affected your relationship. Because it didn't just affect the relationship with the roommate. It affected the relationship between Raya and her boyfriend. So I think they haven't really discussed how has this affected us. Because you're friends with your roommate. I'm friends with my roommate. This thing happened between them. But as you said, these things have ripple effects.

[B]

Yes. And an important aspect of that is she clearly is having a very strong reaction from her values. And if he doesn't have the same response or if they have a serious conflict over those values, they should figure that out. Now, that's a really important conversation to have, because if they're just fundamentally seeing this in a different way, a really useful thing to know in their own relationship as they go forward as a couple.

[C]

Right. Does Ray's boyfriend feel that it wasn't a big deal? Does he feel cheating isn't a big deal? Does he feel there were certain circumstances here that made it okay, or does he feel, well, it wasn't okay, but this is my roommate and I'm still friends with him.

[B]

Right.

[C]

We don't know how the boyfriend feels about it, but I think it can bring up a really important conversation between them about fidelity and what that means to each of them and how they view it.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly. And then there's the question of dealing with your friend as well, your roommate who's feeling very hurt. Is there a way to think about your relationship with your boyfriend? And when you're with that household, is there a way to be civil? Coexistence? Maybe these people aren't going to be your really, really good friends, but is there a way that you can see it as kind of neutral ground or you can be pleasant there so that it's not always you don't want to talk to them or you want to leave the room when they're there.

[C]

Yeah. And the other part of it is I think she feels like she's betraying her friend by hanging out with them. That if I hang out with them, then I'm betraying my loyalty to you or condoning it. Yes, exactly. And I wonder if that's a conversation she's had with the roommate where she can say to her roommate, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I know how painful this has been for you. I don't like what happened to you? I don't approve of what happened to you. And in order for me to hang out with my boyfriend, they happen to live there, too, and I'm going to end up seeing them. And because this is my boyfriend's friend, I'm going to end up socializing with. But that doesn't change how I feel about what happened to you.

[B]

Yes. So much of it is about communication and being straightforward and having open discussions about your values. I value your friendship. It is true that sometimes people change, especially early in our lives. You're in a situation where a lot's in motion. And sometimes we have to, in life, be around people when they have past actions that we don't approve of. And so it's. How do you find a way to navigate that?

[C]

Yeah. I also think about maybe Jack isn't saying anything because he doesn't know how or he doesn't know what he would say because he knows how angry Rhea is with him. You know how sometimes when you know that you did something wrong and the other person's really, really angry about it, that you avoid bringing it up because you just don't want to open that can of worms. It's cowardly. It's not the right thing to do. But people are human, and that tends to be sometimes what they do. I know I did this bad thing. I don't know how to apologize for it because you're gonna scream at me or be mad at me anyway, no matter how much remorse I show. And then on the other side of this, I think that Raya needs to, when she is talking to her roommate, help her roommate to understand that Rha didn't do this. So Rha should not be punished for the actions of Jack and Carly. You don't want Raya's relationship to be threatened because she's saying, I won't go to your house. Which makes it really hard to be in a relationship. If she'll never go over to the boyfriend's house, or I won't hang out with you and your friends, that can really cause a rift in their relationship.

[B]

Or also, she's being judgmental for him for hanging out with his own roommate.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Because she's so disapproving of it.

[C]

I love what you said, Gretchen, about this is really an opportunity for Raya and her boyfriend to talk about. What does it mean to be monogamous? Are we monogamous? What does it mean to cheat? How do you feel about that? How do you feel about what happened with Jack and Carly? Just to learn more about how they view the situation and to learn more about each other and each other's values as well, which they need to know in their own relationship.

[B]

So what is our advice? Number one is talk to your boyfriend about how you view the situation and about your deeper values because this could reveal a very important difference in how you go through the world. And it's good to find that out sooner rather than later. And it also might help you navigate this tricky situation in the present if you talk about exactly why you're feeling the way you're feeling and how he might feel caught in the middle as well.

[C]

And then have a conversation with your roommate about separating. The idea that being with Jack and Carly in the context of spending time with your boyfriend does not mean that you condone the pain that Jack and Carly caused her.

[B]

And maybe it would help to reframe it as civil coexistence rather than best friends hanging out and find a way to manage the reality of it in a way that feels more comfortable going forward.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think the last thing is you want to be honest with your roommate if she is wondering, did you hang out with Jack and Carly? Hopefully she's not asking you that every time you're there. And I think you can set some boundaries around that as well. When you ask me that, I don't know how this really helps because I know you're in pain around that. And it's makes me think that you're upset with me for hanging out with my boyfriend who happens to be living with these people.

[B]

Which to your point, then that's putting her in the middle of something that she didn't do.

[C]

And so be honest. Answer the question. But you can also set some boundaries so that you aren't always asked, what's going on? Are Jack and Carly still dating? What's happening between them? You don't want to be in the middle of that.

[B]

Well, tell us what you think. This is a very challenging situation, Raya. Good luck. But we want to hear from all of you. Since you ask hers, what have we missed? What insights do you bring? And so if you want to know how to weigh in or submit your own question, go to the since you askpodcast.com.

[C]

And now on a lighter note, we did ask you to weigh in. In our next segment, which we call Wisdom of Crowds, we asked you the following question. Do you argue with your sweetheart, roommate or coworkers about how to load a dishwasher? Now, this might sound like a completely trivial question, but there's so much conflict that people have written in about in terms of dishwasher loading and unloading. So we asked the question and the results were this. 42% of you said yes, you do argue. 58% of you said no.

[B]

So there are some people who are genuinely harmonious on this. Diane said, nope, My husband is a master dishwasher loader. He studies it like it's a puzzle. I've never seen anyone load a dishwasher with so many dishes where they all come out clean and unscathed. I bow down to his mastery. I help unload.

[C]

Play to your strengths.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Lorraine said, I've heard every household has a person who loads the dishwasher like a Swiss architect that's like Diane's husband and another who loads it like a rabid raccoon. He is architect all the way through. I start out architect and end up raccoon. No arguing, though, so that's good. And Valerie says, no, they don't argue. If someone else is loading the dishes beside me, I'm not complaining about how it's done. I think that's a good attitude.

[C]

I'm absolutely in Valerie's camp on that. But then we had people who were openly argumentative. Barb told us, if by argue you mean bicker, then yes, the loader needs to empty to see the garbage they created. And Allison said, yup, he always thinks he can put more in there than I can.

[B]

And then there are the people who are conflict avoidant, where they're not talking it through, but they're having their own silent feelings. Kelly said, I don't argue. I just silently rearrange. Constantly. I monitor for water flow and whether things are going to be blocked from the water. I even rearrange my own loading as dishes get added to maximize efficiency and quantity. I'm the one who cares. It's pointless to correct or teach, so I just quietly fix it over and over. For some reason, seeing the usual effective arrangement never clicks with the other person. This is a good example of if one person really just deeply cares more than the other person, it's probably good for them to have that job.

[C]

Yeah. Who does it matter more to?

[B]

And to accept that that's your job because you just really, really care.

[C]

Yeah. You know what's interesting about this is so many people think, oh, we're arguing about the dishes, or we're arguing about the dishwasher or whatever the issue might be. But really, when you read these responses, you can tell this is an underlying pat. Probably do this with other things. Too. So it's really good to look at something that seems kind of lighter, like the dishwasher to say, do we do this in other areas of our lives? And so for all of you listening, think about it as you're listening to these responses when you say, oh, I'm like this person or I'm like that person, think, do I do this around other issues in my life?

[B]

Right. Right. Along the same lines, Christine said, we don't argue. We just move the dishes around on each other.

[C]

And then there are other people who took a more strategic or negotiated tactic. Diana said, we don't argue about it. He always thinks I do it wrong, so I don't do it anymore and he does it. Problem solved.

[B]

Mm.

[C]

That's actually a good reminder that if you're very critical of the way somebody does a task, you may be stuck doing it.

[B]

Well, this is the point that Valerie made. If somebody else is doing it, I'm not criticizing.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Laura says, yes, I do my best to follow his many rules, but I told him I no longer want to be reminded about it. He is welcome to rearrange as needed as long as I don't have to hear about it. So again, it's not my issue. Go to it.

[C]

Okay. Now, Gretchen, you did a little research on this?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Often on this podcast we say, well, there's no one right way. But here, according to experts, it turns out there actually is a best way to load a dishwasher. What did you find?

[B]

So this is what they say. Place large flat items like plates and pans on the bottom rack angled toward the center. That's where they get more water. Glasses, mugs and plastic items should be angled downwards on the top rack because the water pressure and temperature are lower on the top rack and that helps prevent damage to the plastic and reduces water spotting on the glasses. You should scrape large food scraps off dishes, but pre rinsing isn't usually necessary.

[C]

See, I didn't know that. I pre rinse.

[B]

Most of us pre rinse way more than we need to. Silverware, put them handles down to clean better. But knives, you want to put blade down for safety because you don't want to cut yourself. And you want to mix them up to prevent nesting because if spoons or forks nest together, then they don't get as clean. Here's something that's surprising. It turns out that with an energy efficient dishwasher, it's actually more efficient to run a dishwasher that's not full than to hand wash. And so the person who feels like, oh, you can't run a dishwasher until it's crammed full. It's actually better than saying, oh, I'll just hand wash these few things right.

[C]

But don't use this list to tell your partner that they're doing things wrong. Because the main takeaway here is that if somebody is doing it their way, if it works, let them do it their way. That is our advice.

[B]

Absolutely. And we love to hear your thoughts. We will be sharing more questions like this on social media to hear what you have to say. Want to hear you weigh in. So look on our social media accounts and we will be highlighting responses on future episodes. Coming up, we'll answer a question about whether you should just accept a less than ideal personality quirk in a long term relationship rather than keep trying to change it.

[C]

That's hard.

[B]

Interesting. But first, this Brick Lori what I like about JLab is that no matter what your mood, there's a JLab headphone for everyone.

[C]

Exactly. Whether I'm working out to music, listening to podcasts, or just trying to unwind, there's a JLab that fits and they deliver superior sound, smart design and real value.

[B]

The JBuds pods are a great example. Sleep Sleek stem design, 56 hours of playtime and powerful noise canceling. What I appreciate is not having to think about charging them all the time. They just keep going.

[C]

The JBuds Lux are another favorite. They've got 70 hours of playtime, hybrid active noise canceling and cloud foam cushions. I love how lightweight and comfortable they are, especially if you're listening all day.

[B]

And if you want to go beyond headphones, JLab even has the JBuds party speaker with up to 12 hours of playtime and customers customizable LED lights to set the mood anywhere.

[C]

For every move, for every mood, for every you express your true self with JLab.

[B]

Look for the blue box at retailers everywhere or shop jlab.com and use code since you asked for 15% off your order today.

[G]

Julia well hi everybody. It's Julia Louis Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast. And I'm not going to talk about food waste this time. I I'm going to talk about food resources. All that uneaten food rotting in the landfill. It could be enriching our soil or feeding our chickens. Because it's still food. And the easiest and frankly way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is with the Mill food Recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can. But it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true, I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone. Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and raps and eyes about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep filling it for weeks. But the clincher is is that you can depend on it for years. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand in North America and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[H]

Hello, I'm James Corden and on my new show, this Life of Mine, I sit down each week with some of the most fascinating people on planet Earth. From Dr. Dre to Julianne Moore to David Beckham to Cynthia Erivo to Martin Scorsese to Jeremy Renner to Denzel Washington to Kim Kardashian, we talk about the people, places, possessions, music and memories that made them who they are. These are intimate conversations full of stories that you've never heard before. This Life of Mine premieres October 21st, wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

And we're back with a question from Andrea about whether her husband should stop asking her to change a behavior that she's had all along.

[I]

Hi, my name is Andrea and I've been with my husband for 25 years. Married 20 next year. We're very committed to each other and our family and we're generally a pretty happy couple. My question is about this though. I'm wondering if there is a way for someone to accept a behavior about someone that just won't change. For example, try as I might, I am a snappy person. I'm aware of my behavior and so is my husband. But sometimes it seems like he's just over it and will explain that it's not sustainable to manage. And I don't think he'll activate on a decision and leave. But I also wonder if he will ever resign to accepting that this is who I am and try and be better. But sometimes it gets the best of me. And I certainly have accepted less than ideal behaviors from him. But I'm wondering if some people just can't get to acceptance. I'm quiet when he goes on about how snappy I am when truly I just Want to snap? Well, it's been 25 years and it's not changing. So either accept it and move on or don't. Again, we've been together so long and we're generally a happy and content couple in our marriage. And I just wish he would resign to accepting this trait. Thank you.

[C]

What's so interesting about this letter is that she's right that we all have traits that the other person is going to find less than ideal. And sometimes it can be really hard for us to change them. But I also think she needs to ask herself this question of whether she's making a good faith effort to address the issue. Is she just saying, well, we've been doing this for 25 years and this is how I am? And she says she tries to do something about it, but I'd want to know how much effort she's actually putting into it. Is she learning? What can I do when I'm about to snap? Can I try some breathing? Can I say, let's talk about this in 15 minutes? There are lots of things you can do so that you don't snap. And I'm wondering how much effort she's putting into that.

[B]

One of the things that I often remind myself and I think is very useful is that on the one hand we want to accept ourselves, but we also want to expect more from ourselves. And we want to have self compassion and we don't want to get caught up in a fantasy self. And there are certain things where that's how you're wired. But then on the other hand, as you say, there are often many, many things that we can do to address our behaviors and our actions if we expect more from ourself. And I have to say I really identify with this. Cause I'm a very, very snappy person myself and I spend so much effort managing that. So I'm really careful to get enough sleep and not let myself get too hungry and not let myself get too cold, not let myself get too pressed for time. That's when I'm snappy, is when a lot of things are happening and I'm feeling rushed. Don't talk to me now because I've got to concentrate and I get really, really snappy. And so I think about in advance this is gonna bring out my worst side or I think treat myself like a toddler. You know, you gotta treat that toddler right or they're gonna lose it. I have to do the same thing with myself. To your point, are you making a good faith effort to do what you can to manage the snappishness, if that is part of what you bring into the world.

[C]

And to your point about how you know that there's a way that you can control it when you really put your mind to it, I think we assume that the people closest to us will accept behaviors that we would actually make a greater effort to change in front of other people. So I think if she were to ask herself, do I snap in front of other people? I think she probably wouldn't have a lot of friends if she does that regularly. So I'm guessing that she found a way to not snap so much in front of other people. But again, we kind of feel well at home. I can let it all out and be who I am. But we have to remember that the people that we love the most, we should make sure that we are treating as well as the people out there in the world.

[B]

Yeah. There's research that shows that married people treat each other with less consideration and than they do friends or strangers. So really, they get the worst. And I will say, and again, I say this as somebody who snaps myself, if you're doing it, it may not seem like a big deal. It may seem like, okay, I just lost it for a minute and I'm going on. But I do think that for other people, it can create this atmosphere of we always have to be walking on eggshells or something's gonna set this person off. Or there's also emotional contagion, which is when we catch emotions from other people. And if you're suddenly escalating in anger and, well, then that starts to make other people feel frustrated or angry or resentful. And so that the negative emotion that's creating consequences for him. It sounds like he's telling you, this is really a problem. I'm really finding this hard to take. So for you, it might be like, oh, this is just how I do. But he's telling you that that's not how he's feeling about it.

[C]

Right. He's really trying to get her to hear him and to take it seriously. He's saying it's not sustainable to. Are the words she used.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

She's saying, I don't think he's gonna leave, but you don't want the choice to be, he's either gonna leave or he's gonna be really unhappy if he stays. I think you wanna show him that you do hear him and that you understand why this is so bothersome to him and that you care about the impact that you're having on him. And you wanna show him that you're trying. So even if you're not perfect, you're still gonna snap. Sometimes it sounds like that's something that's challenging for her to do. But if he sees that you're trying, even a tiny improvement would show him that you care, that you really are taking what he's saying seriously.

[B]

So what is our advice? I would say first thing is the snappiness. If you do feel you want to try to make that good faith effort, I do feel it's really, really helpful to think about what is it that you need to do to manage yourself so you're not on the edge of losing your temper. Get enough sleep, give yourself enough time. Don't let yourself get too hungry. Think about things that might set you off in advance. For me, again, margins of time make a big difference. But you should think about what your own list is and try to bring that about. Show that you're making an effort, that you're taking seriously what he is saying and you're changing your behavior in an attempt to improve.

[C]

And in that spirit, you can enlist him to help. And sometimes it's about making a joke. Like, Gretchen, we lovingly call you a happiness bully. And you lovingly call yourself that.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

It's a trait that some people might say, wow, you're really coming on strong with this happiness stuff. But when we make a joke of it, it feels different. And I think it's a reminder to you that, okay, maybe I'm gonna tone this down a little bit here, even though I still wanna get my point across. And so for her, it might be that she enlists her husband. Can you help me by doing X when I start to get snappy? Can we lighten the mood? Can you help me slow down? And I think the other point that we were making about don't take the people closest to you for granted. Whatever strategies you're using with other people so that you don't see snap at them and alienate them, try to use those with your husband.

[B]

Well, another thing along those lines is to think about gratitude. Because when we have feelings of gratitude and think about all the things that we appreciate about a person, it can make you feel less snappy because it drives up those feelings of anger and resentment and annoyance because it's not that the situation is any different, but it might help you reframe how you feel about the situation in a way that would make you feel less snappy.

[C]

Right. So if you're snapping about something that he's doing, you might think about, but I also appreciate all these other things about him. And it might bring down your level of irritation and therefore your level of snappiness.

[B]

You're thinking, why do you always load the dishwasher in this rabid raccoon way and make me bonkers? And we've gone over this a million times and instead think, oh, how nice it is to have somebody to load the dishwasher. I'm just going to walk away quietly and let the dishes get cleaned or not and just see what happens.

[C]

Exactly. Exactly.

[B]

Coming up, we have a question from our friend Mel Robbins about an issue she struggles with and wanted us to weigh in. But first, this break.

[C]

And now we're. We're back with a segment that we are calling even celebrities need advice. Because everybody does.

[B]

They're just like us.

[C]

Celebrities are just like us. Today we're going to hear a question from our friend Mel Robbins. Since you asked, Mel, we're going to tackle your question. Here it is. So, Mel Robbins, you have sold 7 million copies of the Let Them Theory. This book is an absolute blockbuster. People come to you for advice all the time. They have so many questions, and you have given so much good advice in your book. Now we're wondering, do you have an advice question for us?

[G]

I do.

[D]

And okay, this is gonna sound really dumb because I feel intellectually I shouldn't be struggling with this, and yet I still do. I have a hard time allowing myself to just rest and relax. And one of the reasons why is, first of all, I love what I do for a living. But when I get home, I really want to just collapse on the couch, spend time with my husband, putter around the garden, take the dogs for a walk. But there's always this nagging sense I should call my friends, I should be more social, I should do something. And I don't know if it's like this incessant old habit of it's just never enough or I'm not good enough, but I can always find something that I think I should be doing other than taking care of myself. I just can't allow myself to rest. I feel like I should be doing something other than just allowing myself to be. My dad is 81. How many holidays do I have left with him? And so I feel all of these competing demands pulling at me, things that I really care about, and there's just not enough hours in the day. And so on those days where I'm not on a plane or I'm not in social plans and I just wanna be in Sweatpants and no underwear and a T shirt and no bra. Laying on my couch with the two dogs. Right. I'm still constantly thinking, I haven't gotten back to that friend. I haven't done that thing. And I don't know how to stop that nagging sense. Cause I know I'm doing enough. So why can't I relax? Why can't I do that without guilt? So what is your advice?

[B]

Yes, Mel, we get it.

[C]

We do.

[B]

This is such a common issue where there's all these things that you want to do and you know you should do and you know would make you happier. And yet you also just want to kick back and putter and do nothing. And you have the desire to do all these things. But then also, if you're just running around doing things all the time, do you have any time to yourself? But there was one thing that really struck me, which is there's all these things that I think that I should be doing other than taking care of myself. But making time for friends and making time for family is taking care of ourselves. And those are really important for our happiness. And so I think it's wise to be aware of the fact that as you're thinking about how to use your precious time and energy, that you do want to make sure that you're maintaining your friendships and staying close to your family, as well as creating that time for puttering. And so it's a matter of how do you think about balancing all of those very worthy aims?

[C]

Right. And I think balance is the key word here, because you're not gonna be able to do both a hundred percent. So you have to know that you're going to have to make some choices and some things are gonna fall through the cracks. And that's okay. The question you asked is, why can't I do that without guilt? We all feel so guilty when we're not doing all the things that we think we should be doing. And also the things, as Gretchen said, that we want to do, we want to maintain our relationships. But at the same time, we also want to kick back in our sweatpants and no underwear and the T shirt with no bra and that description. I was like, yep, she's been in my house.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I think that we have to say, how does this guilt serve me? Because it's not going to make me go do the other thing. Or if it does make me go do the other thing, then I'm going to feel ripped off because I wasn't taking care of myself in this other way. That is equally important. So we shouldn't weigh them as one is more valuable than the other. The whole sweatpants on the couch is just as valuable as seeing your father, who's 81, and calling those friends and hanging out with your husband. All of those things matter. So I think we need to say right now, I'm doing exactly what I need to be doing, and just listen to yourself about what you need in that moment instead of casting judgment on what you're doing, because then you're not even enjoying that moment.

[B]

You have this nagging sense that at every minute, perhaps you should be doing something else with your time. It can be very helpful to make a plan for, well, how much do I want to spend on maintaining my friendships? How much do I want to see my family? And do I want to set aside time for just the hangout time? It can be really helpful to put that on the calendar, because if it's on the calendar, it's going to get done. So maybe she needs to put aside Saturday afternoon and just say doing nothing, and treat it like a conference call where it's something where there is time specifically set aside for that. And then also, one of the things that can be helpful when you're thinking about something like seeing friends and family is instead of thinking, well, what should I be doing right now? What should I be doing today? It's to step back and think about the whole year and say, okay, I really want to see my father over the course of the year. When might I do that? And then when you have a plan, then you're not feeling frantically pressed all the time, that you're not doing enough because you're like, oh, I have a plan to make sure that I am serving this value. Or with friends, I'm a big fan of joining or starting a group, because then you see a bunch of friends all at once. It sounds funny to talk about efficiency and friendship, but it can be a really great way for somebody who doesn't have a lot of time to get a lot of friend time in. So there's things that you can do when you're very purposeful about. I want the balance. I want to have time for it for these things. And yet I don't want to be racing around all the time feeling like everything is just something on a checklist and not have that downtime. That is so precious.

[C]

Yeah. And I find it so interesting that when you think about what do people have on their calendars? They have all the things that they need to do, but they don't have things like sit on the couch and watch Netflix. They just like, that's not scheduled into your calendar. But it should be, because if it is on your calendar, then you feel like you have permission to do it. You can't just have things on your calendar and think that somehow the other things that are equally important, like relaxing, are going to just fall into place somewhere in there. And then you always feel like you're supposed to be doing something else. But if it's on your calendar, you say, okay, from 7 to 9pm this is what I'm supposed to be doing that's on the calendar.

[B]

And you could think about the rhythms, your own natural rhythms and the rhythm of your day and your weeks and your year as you're doing it. I have a friend who found it really, really hard to start work on Monday morning. And so she just said Monday morning was. She'd come into her office and she'd go through her email and she'd go through the mail, and she just did this very low lift things to ease into her week because she knew she just couldn't hit the ground running on Monday without it just throwing her off. And so again, maybe you're feeling that time. Maybe it's Wednesday and Thursday night because you're feeling overtired from super busy Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays, or whatever it is for your week. And you can think about setting it up so you're putting it on your calendar when you need it.

[C]

And I think that transitioning can be so hard. Like what you were saying about coming into the office on Monday morning. For some people, they love to hit the ground running. Other people need that time to ease into it. And so when you put on your calendar that you're going to relax, you have to remember you probably are not going to want to go from real high intensity to just, okay, now I have to relax. Because then you feel the pressure to relax. It's like I can't relax it because my body is still in the other mode. I haven't switched modes yet. So think about when you schedule. Okay, this is my time, that I'm going to have some downtime. What is a nice transitional way to get to that downtime?

[B]

And don't feel guilty while you're doing it. It's on the calendar. This time has been set aside for the chillaxing. And so don't start thinking, oh, but here I am, I am. I've got two hours free. I should be doing this, I should be doing that. It's all this valuable time that I'm wasting. It's not a waste. It's exactly what you need. And so it's guilt free. But set it up so that you can slide into it and enjoy it and treat it like a dentist appointment or a meeting with your accountant. It's on the schedule and it's happening because that's important. Just like maintaining the friendships and maintaining the family relationships are important.

[C]

And Mel, you actually have the 5, 4, 321 rule where you have to do the countdown and then when you get to one, it's blast off and you have no choice. Maybe for you, you should take your own advice in addition to ours, which is when it's time on your calendar to have some downtime for yourself, do your 5, 4, 321 rule, which everybody knows about. If you follow Mel Robbins, listen to her podcast, watch her clips, you will know what we're talking about. 5, 4, 3, 2 1. Time to relax. No thinking back. No guilt. Just do it.

[B]

So that's advice from us and advice from Mel Robbins to Mel Robbins. Well, we want to hear from you. What advice do you have for Mel? You can read her excellent book, the Let Them Theory and listen to her podcast, the Mel Robbins Podcast. Let us know what you think and what your insights are@thesense you. AskPodcast.com and finally, before we go, this is a question that we will tackle in the next episode and we'd love to hear your thoughts. This is a question that is very topical. Many people these days are dealing with various versions of this issue.

[C]

Yes, this is something we hear about a lot and I'm sure a lot of you have heard about this from people in your own lives. And and this is from a listener who wants to be anonymous. And the letter goes like this. My younger sister trusts my opinion and has asked for my guidance in a dilemma. She conceived her youngest daughter through IVF using an egg donor. Only my brother in law and my other sister know about this. The daughter is now 14 and has asked many questions about why she doesn't resemble her older sister or her mom. My sister knows she needs to tell her the truth at some point but does not want to do this out of fear that it will really upset her daughter and will harm their good relationship. My brother in law will go along with whatever my sister decides. I believe that my niece should be told the truth. The sooner the better. Although it will be devastating. What is the best thing to do in this situation?

[B]

So think about whether you faced a similar situation in your own life and what Would your advice be for someone who is facing this kind of challenge? We will be talking about it in our next episode. That's it for today. Since you asked us, we really want you to weigh in. You are a big part of this show. To get in touch, go to thesenseuspodcast.com and you can follow each of us on our social media accounts or check the show notes.

[C]

And if our discussions today have struck a chord with you, we'd love to hear how it was helpful for you or for someone in your life.

[B]

One last thing. We are a new show. So Lori, what is it that listeners could do that would really help us out?

[C]

Well, it takes about three seconds and all they have to do is rate our show by clicking on the stars in their podcast apps and that will help other people to find our show.

[B]

And if you're there clicking on the stars, if you would give us a review, that is really great. If you follow the show, that is really great. If you follow or subscribe or hit that plus button, whatever it takes in your app, that'll mean that you will not miss an episode. It'll go right into your feed. But anything that you do, rating, reviewing.

[C]

Following, subscribing, sharing with a friend, well.

[B]

That'S the biggest one, right? Because, Lori, how do you ever find podcasts? The way that I find podcasts is because a friend is like, oh, you should really check out this podcast. Word of mouth is the best always. Or looking at the ratings and reviews, those can be really helpful too.

[C]

Yes, and your friends know you best. And so whenever people forward me a podcast to listen to, I always know that it's going to be worth my while.

[B]

Absolutely. And remember, whether this podcast changes your life or just makes you laugh, we're glad you're here.

[E]

Since you asked is for entertainment purposes only and isn't a substitute for professional advice. By sending us your question, you're agreeing. We may use it on the show and edit it for length or clarity.

[B]

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft.

[D]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood.

[B]

Join us as we explore ideas and.

[D]

Hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits.

[B]

Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from lemonada Media.