Since You Asked with Lori Gottlieb and Gretchen Rubin

Episode: Can a Marriage Survive When a Partner Won’t Change? Plus: Mel Robbins Wants Our Advice!
Date: October 7, 2025
Production: Lemonada Media

Overview

This episode dives into thorny dilemmas about loyalty, forgiveness, accepting (or not) the quirks and flaws of loved ones, and balancing self-care with social obligations. Lori and Gretchen respond to listener questions and comments about messy romantic entanglements, the eternal struggle of dishwasher etiquette, and what to do when a long-term partner just can’t (or won’t) change a frustrating trait. Special guest Mel Robbins turns the tables by asking the hosts for advice about her own work-life-rest dilemmas.

Key Discussion Points

1. Lessons on Loyalty: When “Speaking Up” is Not Your Place

• Listener Response (01:16-02:15):
  • A follow-up to a previous episode: A listener nearly told her friend to break up with a partner she deemed a bad match, based on her own failed relationship.
  • She resisted and later realized everyone’s relationships are different:

    "Just because that was my experience or my view, it does not apply to everyone. That was a valuable lesson for me on many fronts." (01:31)

  • Hosts' take:
    • “It’s a great reminder for all of us. We’re different and we want different things and we don’t always know how things are going to turn out for other people.” – Lori (02:05)
    • “We debate this so much because we don’t know what the outcome’s going to be.” – Gretchen (02:15)

2. Handling Friendship Imbalance and Setting Realistic Expectations

• Listener Nick’s Update (03:02-04:11):
  • Nick previously struggled with a friend who always canceled plans, leaving Nick to make all the effort.
  • After taking the hosts’ advice, Nick realized the friend’s behavior wasn't a reflection of the friendship’s value and decided the friendship was worth putting in extra effort.
  • “It’s not necessarily a reflection on our relationship or his feelings about me...I have to work with that and set the right expectations.” – Nick (03:29)
  • “This comes up for a lot of people.” – Lori (04:04)

3. Main Dilemma: Messy Cheating, Friend Group Fallout, and Moral Boundaries

Listener Question from Raya (04:34-06:06)

• Complicated scenario involving her boyfriend’s roommate (Jack) cheating on her (Raya’s) roommate, resulting in intense fallout and shifting loyalties.
• Jack and the other woman have not apologized; the boyfriend urges forgiveness.
• Raya’s struggle: How to reduce relational strain without betraying her values.

Lori & Gretchen’s Analysis (06:06-13:08)

• Layers of Conflict:
  • Cheating + lack of apology = loyalty crisis.
  • Intense “found family” dynamics in roommate years.
  • Ongoing group tension, especially since Jack/Carly socialize in shared spaces.
• Key Insights & Quotes:
  • “If she becomes friends with Jack and Carly or accepts them, she’s saying ‘I forgive you or it’s okay.’ And that goes to her values and her loyalty...” – Gretchen (06:10)
  • “Your roommates are like family to you. And so these actions are having very significant ripple effects.” – Lori (06:39)
  • “Maybe Jack isn’t saying anything because he doesn’t know how or he doesn’t know what he would say...It’s cowardly. But people are human.” – Gretchen (10:01)
  • Raya’s boyfriend’s stance needs examining: “Does he feel cheating isn’t a big deal? Or is he just loyal to his roommate?” – Gretchen (08:02)
  • “Have a serious, calm, reflective conversation and talk...about how this has affected your relationship.” – Gretchen (07:04)
• Concrete Advice:
  1. Talk with your boyfriend to clarify values and understand each other’s perspectives on fidelity and loyalty. (11:37)
  2. Communicate honestly with your hurt roommate: spending time in group settings is not betrayal. (09:35, 12:02)
  3. Draw boundaries around involvement and being “the messenger” between others. (12:26)
  4. Reframe group interaction as “civil coexistence” rather than forcing closeness. (12:14)
  • “Raya should not be punished for the actions of Jack and Carly.” – Lori (10:01)

4. Wisdom of Crowds: Dishwasher Disputes (13:29-18:56)

• Survey Results: 42% argue about dishwasher etiquette; 58% do not. (13:29)
• Listener Anecdotes: Range from total harmony to silent rearrangement and tongue-in-cheek resignation.
  • “If someone else is loading the dishes beside me, I’m not complaining about how it’s done. I think that’s a good attitude.” – Valerie (14:51)
  • “I just silently rearrange. Constantly.” – Kelly (15:10)
  • “If you’re very critical of the way somebody does a task, you may be stuck doing it.” – Gretchen (16:44)
• Expert-backed dishwasher loading tips: (17:09)
  • Plates/pans on bottom, glasses/plastic on top, silverware handles down—knives blade down.
  • “Don’t use this list to tell your partner they’re doing things wrong...If it works, let them do it their way.” – Lori (18:20)

5. Accepting Unchanging Traits in a Long Marriage

Listener Question from Andrea (22:23-23:33)

• After 25 years, Andrea wonders if her husband should just accept her “snappy” demeanor, or if she should work harder to change.

Lori & Gretchen’s Perspectives (23:33-29:56)

• Challenge: Differentiating between accepting core traits and continuing to make growth efforts.
  • “We all have traits that the other person is going to find less than ideal...Is she making a good faith effort to address the issue?” – Lori (23:33)
  • “On the one hand, we want to accept ourselves, but we also want to expect more from ourselves.” – Gretchen (24:15)
  • “If you’re doing it, it may not seem like a big deal...But for other people, it can create this atmosphere of walking on eggshells...there’s emotional contagion.” – Gretchen (26:05)
• Research: Married people often treat each other with less consideration than friends or strangers. (26:05)
• Practical Suggestions:
  • Identify triggers (hunger, tiredness, time pressure) and proactively manage them. (25:25, 27:43)
  • Enlist spouse’s help; create light-hearted reminders.
  • Don’t take close relationships for granted; use the same strategies you’d use with others to avoid snapping. (28:27)
  • Use gratitude to counteract irritation.
  • “Even a tiny improvement would show him that you care.” – Lori (27:43)
• Summary Advice (27:43, 29:05):
  • Make an honest effort; show your partner you are trying.
  • Use humor and gratitude as tools.
  • Remember, everyone adapts to some degree, but respect each other’s boundaries.

6. Even Celebrities Need Advice: Mel Robbins’ Dilemma (30:17-39:25)

Mel’s Struggle: Rest Without Guilt

• Mel’s question: Despite her mega-success, Mel finds it hard to allow herself rest and “doing nothing” without guilt tugging at her.
  • “There’s always this nagging sense I should call my friends, I should be more social, I should do something. I just can’t allow myself to rest. I feel like I should be doing something other than just allowing myself to be.” – Mel Robbins (31:10)
  • “On those days where...I just want to be in sweatpants and no underwear and a t-shirt and no bra laying on my couch with the two dogs...I’m still constantly thinking, I haven’t gotten back to that friend...” – Mel Robbins (31:53)
• Hosts’ Response:
  • Balancing obligations vs. genuine downtime is a universal struggle.
  • Social connection is self-care. Set purposeful intentions for both socialization and rest. (32:35, 33:35)
  • “How does this guilt serve me? Because it’s not going to make me go do the other thing...We shouldn’t weigh them as one more valuable than the other.” – Lori (34:13)
  • Schedule downtime on your calendar, and treat it as non-negotiable as any work meeting or social plan. (34:54, 36:19)
  • Anticipate your own rhythms and transitions—don’t expect yourself to switch instantly from high intensity to deep rest. (37:41)
  • “Don’t feel guilty while you’re doing it. It’s on the calendar...this time has been set aside for the chillaxing.” – Gretchen (38:20)
  • Use Mel’s own “5-4-3-2-1 rule”:

    “When it’s time on your calendar to have some downtime for yourself, do your 5-4-3-2-1 rule...Time to relax. No thinking back. No guilt. Just do it.” – Lori (38:54)

• Invitation to Audience: Listeners are encouraged to share their own advice for Mel.

7. Sneak Peek at Next Episode: Telling the Truth About Egg Donation

• Listener Dilemma: Should a parent tell her teenage daughter she was conceived via egg donation?
• The hosts ask for audience input and highlight the topic's sensitivity and importance. (39:57-40:48)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sometimes we have to, in life, be around people when they have past actions that we don’t approve of. And so it’s...how do you find a way to navigate that?” – Lori (09:35)
• “Married people treat each other with less consideration than they do friends or strangers. So really, they get the worst.” – Gretchen (26:05)
• “If you’re very critical of the way somebody does a task, you may be stuck doing it.” – Gretchen (16:44)
• “If it works, let them do it their way. That is our advice.” – Lori (18:20)
• “No thinking back. No guilt. Just do it.” – Lori (38:54, referencing Mel’s 5-4-3-2-1 rule)
• “Whether this podcast changes your life or just makes you laugh, we’re glad you’re here.” – Gretchen (42:15)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:16 – Listener response: Should you warn a friend about their partner?
• 03:02 – Nick’s friendship update and takeaways on effort & expectation.
• 04:34 – RAYA’s letter: Cheating, group fallout, and values.
• 06:06 – Hosts analyze Raya’s dilemma.
• 13:29 – Wisdom of Crowds: Dishwasher disputes.
• 17:09 – Expert dishwasher tips (and why not to weaponize them).
• 22:23 – Andrea: “Can you just accept this after 25 years?”
• 23:33 – Hosts on acceptance vs. effort in marriage.
• 30:17 – Mel Robbins’ advice request about rest, obligations, and guilt.
• 34:54 – Scheduling downtime as an act of self-care.
• 39:57 – Sneak peek: The ethics of telling a child about their biological origins.

The Hosts’ Advice Themes

• Be honest and reflective in relationships: Communicate directly (but kindly) about values, pain, and boundaries.
• Don’t over-personalize someone else's behavior: Learn when to accept, when to address, and when to step back.
• Accept complexity: Sometimes you can’t resolve everything; aim for “civil coexistence” rather than perfection.
• Balance acceptance and growth: Love partners (and yourself) for who they are, but don’t use that as an excuse to avoid growth.
• Prioritize self-care and social connection: Both are valid and necessary; schedule each with intention.
• Lighten up on the small stuff: If it matters more to you (e.g., dishwasher loading), own the task without resentment; don’t get stuck on trivial disputes.

Final Thought

This episode underscores that the business of living well—especially in relationships—is nuanced and imperfect. Sometimes you forgive. Sometimes you set boundaries. Sometimes you schedule a nap like it’s a job. Whether the problems are profound or laughably everyday, honest examination and open-hearted communication go a long way.