Podcast Summary

Since You Asked with Lori Gottlieb and Gretchen Rubin

Episode: How to Manage a Dramatic Family Member? Plus: Separating Twice & Staying Together with Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody
Date: November 4, 2025
Host: Lemonada Media

Episode Overview

This episode features the iconic couple—actor/singer Mandy Patinkin and actress/writer Kathryn Grody—joining hosts Gretchen Rubin and Lori Gottlieb to offer advice on two listener dilemmas: managing a dramatic family member at gatherings, and setting boundaries with visiting parents. The candid, deeply personal conversation draws on Mandy and Kathryn's 40+ years of marriage, their therapy experiences, and their celebrated roles as advice-givers on their own podcast, Don't Listen to Us. Central themes include the reality of messy relationships, the challenge and necessity of change, reframing difficulties, and the unvarnished humor that sustains long-term love.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Mandy and Kathryn: On Giving & Receiving Advice

• Podcasting Together: Mandy and Kathryn reveal that their son Gideon inspired them to start podcasting:

  “I tend to say yes to anything that Gideon is interested in doing.” – Kathryn (05:00)

• Imposter Syndrome About Advice:

  “Discomfort with advice. Who are we to dispense advice? I’m not an analyst, a therapist…” – Kathryn (05:32)
  Both describe a hesitance to be ‘advice givers’ but acknowledge the universal human curiosity about other people’s experiences.

• Advice as Connection:

  “It is both your show and maybe ours, an antidote to feeling isolated.” – Kathryn (05:52)

Notable Quotes:

• “Absolutely not for me, I don’t give advice to my friends.” – Mandy (06:04)
• “When your sons start to parent you…it’s a real switch.” – Kathryn (07:24)
• “I refer to myself as volcanic because I don’t see it coming.” – Mandy (06:30)

2. Change and Personal Growth in Long-Term Marriage

• Therapy and Self-Reflection: Mandy recalls a pivotal therapy moment recognizing not everyone processes emotions the same way, and how listening—learned in part through acting on Homeland—changed him (08:38–09:32).
• Pandemic Effects: They agree the pandemic brought increased kindness and compassion into their marriage (08:27–08:38).
• Learning Not to Fix Everything: Their therapists repeatedly encouraged "stay with the discomfort" and not to reflexively fix each other (16:54).
• Humor and Reframing: Laughter is highlighted as their marital glue, dissolving everyday tensions (29:24).

Notable Quotes:

• “Stop trying to fix everything. The Buddhist idea of stay with the discomfort…that part of your brain that’s primitive will get bored with it and move on.” – Mandy (16:54)
• “We’re messy. It’s not a frightening thing to be messy. Chaos is different. Abuse is different. Character assassination is different.” – Kathryn (34:04)

3. Advice Segment: Handling a Dramatic Family Member at Gatherings ([10:07–14:55])

• Listener Dilemma (Paraphrased): A woman hosts family parties; a niece repeatedly cries in the kitchen, undermining celebrations. The behavior isn’t substance-fueled and seems immature and disruptive. The host wants strategies to prevent future “maudlin scenes.”
• Kathryn’s Approach: Sympathy for the host. Advocate honesty: talk to the niece privately at a non-event time, offer genuine support, and set boundaries for future gatherings (11:16–12:13).

  “Say, ‘I’m so sorry you’re feeling badly. I’d be glad to listen and help when we’re all not together, being joyful.’” – Kathryn (12:00)

• Mandy’s Twist: After a second occurrence, he suggests a tactic of “flooding with misery” so the niece experiences the effect of her behavior, but underscores the importance of kindness—especially on the first occasion (12:17–13:00).

  “Kindness, I think, is the number one quality that all human beings all over the globe need to practice, practice, practice.” – Mandy (13:00)

• Hosts’ Takeaway: Affirm the importance of “time and place,” suggest assigning a relative as a “listener” to move the niece to a private space and minimize disruption (14:18–14:30).

Memorable Exchanges:

• “Or she’s seducing you with her misery.” – Lori (13:49)
• “I love that. I’m going to use that.” – Kathryn (13:52)

4. Marriage Challenges: Separation, Being ‘Unfixable’ & Staying Together ([15:08–34:04])

• Worst Advice Ever Received: A therapist once recommended they divorce and handed out her own sister’s divorce lawyer card, prompting laughter and shock (15:08–15:54).
• Separation Stories: Two separations, each ultimately brief, led to the realization that, in Mandy’s words, “we were separation failures” (25:29). Acceptance—not exhaustive self- or partner-improvement—was the “healing ointment.”

  “I just went, I can’t change this person and she can’t change me.” – Mandy (25:41)

• Living with ‘Unfixable’ Traits: Kathryn shares her surrender to Mandy’s habit of leaving social gatherings without saying goodbye; Mandy defends his “introvert exit” (17:46–18:28).

  “I just like to disappear. And I do, and I’m happy to do it.” – Mandy (18:20)

• Laughter and Absurdity: Episodes like the “urgent strawberries” on a car ride show how small annoyances are inevitable but the couple defuses tension with humor (26:18–29:24).
• Reframing and Growth Through Struggle:

  “When everything goes great…nothing happens. When you struggle, when you’re having a difficult time, that’s when you grow.” – Mandy (33:06)

5. Setting Boundaries with Parents Who Visit ([38:16–42:45])

• Listener Voice Note: A newlywed seeks advice on politely asking her own parents, who visit a few times a year, to stay in a hotel rather than their guest room, since her husband finds long visits overwhelming. She feels guilty asking this, wanting to maximize time with her parents as a recent empty-nester child.
• Kathryn’s Take: Expresses empathy; would find it difficult to ask visiting parents to stay elsewhere (“it would be pretty hard for me to say, please stay in a hotel” – 40:14), especially as husband’s parents live nearby and visit frequently.
• Mandy’s Take: Prioritizes honesty and personal boundaries, explaining that for some people, space is non-negotiable:

  “I’d say, honey, listen, I love your parents, but I need my own space…Help me please keep my privacy.” – Mandy (41:37)

• Joint Compromise: Kathryn offers that usually there’s a practical way to design space so everyone’s needs are met—sometimes friends or relatives stay, sometimes they don’t.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “I refer to myself as volcanic…before I know it, I’ve sort of exploded or fallen into tears.” – Mandy (06:30)
• “Stop trying to fix everything…It’s the greatest thing as a therapist, as a human being, as anybody on this planet. You will love this.” – Mandy, referencing the Bob Newhart sketch (16:54–17:22)
• “It’s very difficult to write about tedium without being tedious.” – Stephen Sondheim’s advice to Kathryn (19:09)
• “I think…be present. Appreciate what you have in front of you. Let go of some of the things that just aren’t going to change.” – Lori, summing up the marriage lessons (32:05)
• “Life is a messy thing…Those difficult moments…those are your gifts.” – Mandy (33:06)
• “It is not a frightening thing to be messy.” – Kathryn (34:04)
• Humorous moment: “You can look at me and talk to me in such a mean way. I’ve never seen her speak to any other human on the planet the way she talks to me…we are laughing hysterically.” – Mandy (28:45–29:24)

Important Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------|-------------| | Meet Mandy & Kathryn, Advice Philosophy | 04:22–07:24 | | Therapy & Changing in Marriage | 08:18–09:32 | | Listener Letter: Dramatic Niece | 10:07–14:55 | | Worst Advice Ever / Separations | 15:08–17:39 | | What Have You Stopped Trying to Fix | 17:39–21:01 | | Breaking Down Long Marriage Struggles | 24:59–34:04 | | Listener Dilemma: Parents Visiting | 38:16–42:45 | | Final Reflections & Takeaways | 32:05, 33:06, 34:04 |

Recurring Themes & Tone

• Radical Honesty: Both couples and hosts repeatedly model and recommend clear, compassionate directness.
• Acceptance and Surrender: Long-term relationships require letting go of certain expectations for change.
• The Value of Therapy—When Good, When Bad: Not all therapists are helpful, but the right match (with boundaries or without) can be transformative.
• Humor as Survival Tool: Even the strangest marital annoyances can dissolve in shared laughter.
• Reframing Messiness: Both as individuals and as a couple, finding growth, humor, and connection in imperfection, not in ‘solving’ everything.

Summary

This episode offers a rich, vulnerable master class in both the art and the limits of advice. Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody—through stories of marital friction, therapy gone wrong and right, and the unvarnished absurdity of daily life—demonstrate that long-term partnership is an ongoing, messy conversation. Real change is incremental (or sometimes impossible), humor is a better solvent than perfectionism, and direct, kind communication is the best answer to even the trickiest family dilemmas. For listeners navigating difficult relatives, rocky marriages, or the politics of visiting parents, their advice is clear: be honest, accept what can’t be changed, always be kind—and when in doubt, reframe the messy moment with laughter.