Is Your Partner’s ‘Work Wife’ Crossing Boundaries? Plus: Are You Becoming Your Parents?

Summary

Since You Asked with Lori Gottlieb and Gretchen Rubin

Episode: Is Your Partner’s ‘Work Wife’ Crossing Boundaries? Plus: Are You Becoming Your Parents?
Date: March 10, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Lori Gottlieb (psychotherapist, author, and advice columnist) and Gretchen Rubin (happiness researcher and author) answer listeners’ questions on two central themes: boundaries in relationships—especially concerning a partner’s close friendship with a “work spouse”—and the degree to which we become like our parents as adults. The hosts analyze real listener dilemmas, offer nuanced advice, share insights from their own lives and from their engaged listener community, and tackle the big questions that shape personal happiness and everyday life.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

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1. Listener Updates and Feedback

[03:28-11:14]

• Self-Forgiveness & Medication (from Episode 13)

  • A listener update from Susie reframes self-forgiveness, reminding us:

    “I am imperfect and lovable.” (Susie, reading Gretchen, 03:28)

  • She shares how starting antidepressants helped her move on from rumination, even when specific medication wasn’t a permanent solution.
  • Hosts’ Take: It’s normal to struggle with self-forgiveness, and both therapy and, sometimes, medication can be helpful.
    • “It is interesting we didn't talk about medication for Johnny’s rumination before, but it might be something that he might consider…” (Lori, 05:04)
    • “Two things can be true at the same time. You can be imperfect and lovable. Sometimes our imperfections make us lovable.” (Gretchen, 05:25)

• AI in Relationships (from Episode 15)

  • Listeners share mixed views on a husband using AI during arguments.
    • Aaron, whose family is neurodiverse, uses AI for communication support.
    • Joyce asks CHAT for conversation scripts, but Lori cautions:

      “We don’t necessarily want to give you the script… we want you to learn how to write your own script.” (Lori, 06:39)

    • One listener asks Gemini AI, who says:

      “You cannot optimize a marriage... Relationships are not code to be debugged.” (Gemini/Naomi, 08:13)

    • Lori highlights that it’s important to “learn to do this based on the feedback that it’s giving you.”
  • Main Takeaway: Technology can be a tool but shouldn’t replace authentic connection.

• Candy Dish Update: The Power of Small Environmental Changes

  • Recent research confirms that simply moving snacks farther away at work dramatically reduces snacking. Gretchen connects this to her book’s concepts of convenience/inconvenience as tools for habit change:

    “It is bananas how much more likely we are to do something if it’s even slightly more convenient... If there’s something you don’t want yourself to do, if you add even the smallest amount of inconvenience, you’re going to be less likely to do it.” (Gretchen, 10:04)

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2. Main Question: Is the 'Work Wife' Crossing Boundaries?

[11:14-23:10]

• Listener Letter Recap

  • Jessica feels uncomfortable with her boyfriend’s “work wife”—the closeness, physical contact, and sexually charged banter between them, including a text joking about colleagues thinking they’re sleeping together.
  • Her boyfriend downplays concerns, dismisses her feelings, but has also mischaracterized the situation (e.g., implied the colleague was older, omitted key facts).

• Hosts’ Reactions

  • Lori:

    “No, no, you’re underthinking it.” (Lori, 13:12)

  • Both highlight not only the inappropriateness of the other woman’s workplace conduct but the boyfriend’s active participation and lack of transparency.

• What’s Going On Here?

  • Lori asks: What purpose does this dynamic serve for the boyfriend? Is it about self-esteem, avoiding intimacy, or a need to be needed?

    “Often these dynamics aren’t so much about attraction... Are they about his identity?” (Lori, 13:27)

  • Gretchen points out that some people struggle to set boundaries at work but that it’s concerning the boyfriend minimizes Jessica’s concerns and misleads her.

• The Conversation the Couple Needs

  • Both agree Jessica and her boyfriend need a candid conversation focused on:
    • Understanding why the boyfriend maintains this blurred relationship.
    • Addressing honesty and accurate depiction of outside friendships.
    • Clarifying boundaries and expectations for external relationships and behavior.
    • Establishing what “safety” means for each in the relationship.

• Key Points & Advice

  • Jessica can’t set her boyfriend’s boundaries for him but can communicate what makes her uncomfortable and seek shared agreement.
  • It’s not about giving an ultimatum, but exploring values and compatibility.

    “You’re not asking him to end the friendship. You’re asking him to be mindful of the parts of it that make you uncomfortable.” (Lori, 20:43)

  • “How would you feel if the roles were reversed?” is less useful—focus on her genuine feelings, not hypotheticals.

    “The point is it bothers her. So it’s not, how would you feel if this happened? It’s, I feel this way.” (Lori, 21:09)

• What Happens Next?

  • The boyfriend’s response—whether he listens and adjusts or dismisses her again—will signal compatibility and long-term potential.

    “His response will tell her a lot about his values, his behavior, and are they compatible...” (Gretchen, 22:23)

  • Lori reminds: It’s not about who is “right” or “wrong”; differing values might mean the relationship isn’t a fit.

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3. Wisdom of Crowds: Have You Become Your Parents?

[27:31-34:53]

• Listener Poll Results:

  • Less like parents: 45%
  • More like parents: 55%

• A Selection of Listener Voices

  • Less Like Parents:

    • Jennifer: “I have outgrown my parents’ value system... If I met my parents as strangers on the street, I would not expect to have anything in common.” (Jennifer, 28:33)
    • Zoe: “My childhood home was so noisy... My house is now like a library.” (Zoe, 28:56)
    • Brendan: “My parents were…spenders. Absolute chaos with money. I went the other way hard. I’m probably too rigid…” (Brendan, 29:29)
    • Jenny: Rich travel life, avoids deferring happiness as her dad did.
    • Vanessa: From emotionally closed family to expressive and open: “I cry at movies, tell my friends I love them, go to therapy every week... I don’t want to pass that on to my daughter.” (Vanessa, 30:14)

  • More Like Parents:

    • Joyce: Strong alignment on values and routines, cherishes proximity and nightly visits with elderly mother.
    • Carla: “More like them, with routines… but less with money. They were so frugal. It was painful. Never spent on anything fun.” (Carla, 31:05)
    • Clementine: Living the creative life her mother postponed out of necessity.
    • Betty: “I spent 20 years judging my parents for being boring homebodies... Now that I’m 50 I get it. My knees hurt and everything is too loud. Staying home with tea doesn’t feel boring anymore. It feels like a relief. I owe them an apology.” (Betty, 31:53)
    • Sonia: Habits carry her father’s memory; what once felt confining now feels comforting.
    • Peggy: “I looked down at my hands on the steering wheel...I thought they belonged to my Nana. We are just Russian nesting dolls of the people who came before us. It’s comforting and terrifying all at once.” (Peggy, 32:47)

• Hosts Reflect

  • Lori: “I would say in some ways more like my dad. Definitely less like my mom... parenting can bring up our history with our own parents and ... figure out what from the past we want to keep... and what to discard.” (Lori, 33:17)
  • Gretchen: Shares habits (napping, kitchen counter minimalism) she inherited from her parents, often without realizing.
    • “I sometimes will do something, and I do feel like I’m channeling a parent, like, so directly...” (Gretchen, 33:53)
  • Both agree adulthood involves sorting what to preserve and what to change from one's upbringing:

    “That’s part of the work of adulthood, is figuring that out.” (Lori, 33:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Self-Forgiveness:

  "You can be imperfect and lovable. Sometimes our imperfections make us lovable."
  — Gretchen Rubin, 05:25

• On AI & Relationships:

  "You cannot optimize a marriage... Relationships are not code to be debugged."
  — Gemini AI (via Naomi), 08:13

• On Convenience and Habit:

  "...if you add even the smallest amount of inconvenience, you're going to be less likely to do it."
  — Gretchen Rubin, 10:04

• On the “Work Wife” Dilemma:

  "No, no, you’re underthinking it."
  — Lori Gottlieb, 13:12
  "What purpose is he serving for her? How does that give him self-esteem?"
  — Lori Gottlieb, 13:27
  "Jessica cannot set the boundaries for her boyfriend, but they could talk about what are the boundaries that they both agree would be acceptable..."
  — Gretchen Rubin, 17:38
  "If your partner brings a concern to you ... you do have to take it seriously. And so when you minimize or dismiss, that feels like an issue..."
  — Lori Gottlieb, 19:08

• On Becoming Our Parents:

  "We are just Russian nesting dolls of the people who came before us."
  — Peggy, 32:47
  "I don’t know if I’m becoming them. I think I just finally understand them."
  — Betty, 31:53

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Listener Updates (self-forgiveness, AI in relationships, habits): 03:28–11:14
• Main Dilemma: The 'Work Wife' (reading, analysis, advice): 11:14–23:10
• Wisdom of Crowds: Becoming Your Parents: 27:31–34:53

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Closing & Next Week’s Teaser

[41:11-end]

The episode closes with a preview of next week’s dilemma: balancing financial support for an elderly parent who struggles with boundaries around money.

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Conclusion

This episode is a robust blend of practical relationship advice, relatable everyday dilemmas, and a big-hearted community conversation about intergenerational habits and personal change. With their signature warmth and insight, Lori and Gretchen offer both concrete strategies and food for thought for listeners navigating the messiness of modern life.

Transcript

[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Lori Gottlieb]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Lori Gottlieb]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

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[Lori Gottlieb]

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[Gretchen Rubin]

last week, we left you with this question about a boyfriend's questionable friendship with a colleague. Here's what she wrote. I just met my boyfriend's work wife and I feel off about it. Recently, I saw a text from her joking that everyone at work thinks they're sleeping together. Am I being insecure, or is it fair to want boundaries here?

[Lori Gottlieb]

We've got this boundary blurring behavior going on, she says.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Am I overthinking this?

[Lori Gottlieb]

No, no, you're underthinking it. Foreign. Hi Gretchen, Hey Laurie, and hey listeners. Welcome to since youe Asked, a podcast where Gretchen and I give our best advice to listeners who are struggling with a dilemma. Whether big or small. We give our perspectives and of course we also include responses from you. Our since you asked listeners, I'm Lori Gottlieb. I'm a psychotherapist and author of the book maybe youe Should Talk To Someone. I also write the Ask the Therapist advice column for the New York Times.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness, good habits, and human nature. I have written many books and if you are in the mood for some spring cleaning, you might enjoy my book Outer Order Inner Calm.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And we have a great show today. We're going to be giving advice on how to deal with a boyfriend whose work wife seems a bit too intimate with him. We'll be talking about whether you've turned into your parents or gone in the other direction, and we have updates from you on letters we've discussed on recent episodes. As always, if you have a question to ask us, ask [e-mail] and we might feature it in an upcoming episode.

[Gretchen Rubin]

First up, we have some updates from you. In episode 13, our listener Johnny wrote in about a situation in which he made an unfortunate remark to a new person in their social group, gave genuine apologies, but the person never forgave him. That was two years ago and he's been having trouble letting go of the guilt he felt for what he knew was a terrible mistake, and listeners had a lot to say. Susie said this in regards to the person in episode 13 who was seeking recommendations on how to forgive himself. The phrase that helps me is I am imperfect and lovable. This reminds me that perfection is impossible and I am still worthy of love. Everyone makes mistakes. I shouldn't be holding myself to an impossible, perfect standard that no one can achieve. Also, medication has been a game changer. I prioritize and work hard on my mental health with the support of a fantastic therapist. In the middle of the pandemic, I went on a new to me antidepressant to cope with overwhelming work stress. All of a sudden, the things that I had been struggling with, such as self forgiveness, were so much easier. I still made mistakes, but I was able to move past them quickly. I couldn't stay on that particular medication long term due to side effects, but the experience helped me realize that some things are simply easier with medication. I still struggle somewhat with self forgiveness, but now I don't have the added burden of judging myself for not being able to forgive myself. Nothing is wrong with me, I'm simply wired differently. Interesting.

[Lori Gottlieb]

It is interesting we didn't talk about medication for Johnny's rumination before, but it might be something that he might consider getting a consult with a psychiatrist to determine whether medication for that level of rumination might be helpful for him in addition to maybe working it through with a therapist.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I also liked Susie's point that two things can be true at the same time. You can be imperfect and lovable. Sometimes our imperfections make us lovable. Two things can be true, absolutely.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I think our imperfections do make us lovable. It's very hard to love a person who seems perfect because there's no such thing. I do hope that this helps people have more self compassion even as they hold themselves accountable the way Johnny was doing.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And we also have some updates from the question in episode 15 about the husband who consults AI in the middle of this couple's arguments. And his wife was not a fan of this. Aaron pointed out, I'd like to offer a perspective of someone doing the same as a parent of and spouse of autistic people. My life has a lot more admin than most and my executive functioning resources are stretched very thin. Perhaps with his job or even in an effort to connect better with you. He is using AI to help himself get a better understanding of the situation. Maybe this is him working on deepening your connection. And I think we talked about that, that this was a tool that he was trying to use but they needed to find a way so that he could use it so that she didn't find it off putting even as he was finding it useful.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah, it was clear he wanted more connection. The question was how can they use AI in a way that feels connecting to them and not mid conversation. And Joyce said, I have started using CHAT for lots of relationship reasons. I asked CHAT to help me figure out how to tell my aging mom something or how to soften a message I need to relay to my adult children. CHAT will basically write you a script and make adjustments along the way. It plays the role of a counselor and a friend. It's interesting, I should say as a therapist we don't necessarily want to give you the script. We might suggest how you can think about it differently, but we want you to learn how to write your own script. I understand why AI is valuable in that way, but I hope that what people can do is use the AI and then say, oh, I'm learning how to craft these conversations myself.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's that idea that it can feel like it has the right answer because it has this authority. But we have to make an answer the right answer. We have to find that answer. It's false to think that it somehow knows the situation best or can get it right. It does feel so authoritative when it just pushes out an answer.

[Lori Gottlieb]

It's nice to get that feedback. And at the same time, can you learn to do this based on the feedback that it's giving you? Can you then learn how to make those conversations work by yourself?

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. People love a script though. I know that. Naomi says my husband also uses AI very frequently, and although it has not caused any issues for us, I can absolutely understand this listener's frustrations and concerns. Here's what Gemini said. She is quoting from AI.

[Lori Gottlieb]

She asked AI what to do in this situation.

[Gretchen Rubin]

You are entirely justified in your discomfort, and your intuition is spot on. You cannot optimize a marriage. As an AI, I am designed to process information, identify patterns, and generate the most statistically probable correct or helpful response. That makes me an excellent tool for writing emails, debugging code, or organizing a schedule. But it makes me a terrible substitute for a partner in a relationship. Here is what I would want you, and ideally your husband, to understand about why his reliance on AI is damaging your connection and how you might address it. Relationships are not code to be debugged. And then she says, it went on for quite a while, but that's the gist. The irony is there.

[Lori Gottlieb]

So AI is saying quite clearly, I am not a substitute for your real relationship.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I think that's very telling. And to another question, remember the candy dish question? This is where a listener asked whether she could ask her coworker not to leave out a candy dish because it was so tempting. So we came across a study from researchers at Yale and St. Joseph's University, and it was related to this issue of workplace snacking. The researchers observed employees at a Google office, and they compared what happened when snacks were placed close to the drink stations or farther away. And they found, not surprisingly, that when the snacks were placed near the drinks, people were much more likely to grab a snack. But just moving the snacks a bit farther away significantly reduced snacking without removing the snacks or upsetting employees. So the bottom line is it's true that small environmental changes like the placement of the food can help people snack less without needing the willpower to avoid temptations. And that's what the listener was writing in about. She's saying the candy is right there and it's very hard for me not to grab it because I see it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, this research does not surprise me at all. In my book Better than Before, I write about the 21 strategies we can use to make or break our habits. And 21 sounds like a lot, and it is a lot, because some work really well for some people, but not for others. Some strategies, we can use it sometimes, but not at other times. But the two of the most ubiquitously effective, effective strategies are the twin strategies of convenience and inconvenience. It is bananas how much more likely we are to do something if it's even slightly more convenient and how much less likely we are to do something if it's even slightly more inconvenient. And so if there's something you don't want yourself to do, if you add even the smallest amount of inconvenience, you're going to be less likely to do it. I've talked to people who sleep in their workout clothes because they're like, I'm so much more likely to work out if I'm already in my workout clothes. Or if you don't want to go on your phone, put it on a high shelf in a closet in another room. Don't keep it in the back pocket of your jeans. This research is a long line of research showing that if you want to resist something, just put it further out of reach. That is a big help.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Right? And it makes that listener's question very understandable about her dilemma with the candy dish.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. Because the way she described it, at least I was picturing it, like, right in the middle of the office pod, sitting on the ledge. So you're seeing it every time you walk to the elevator. And now let's get into today's advice. Last week, we left you with this question about a boyfriend's questionable friendship with a colleague. It's from Jessica, and here's what she wrote. I just met my boyfriend's work wife and I feel off about it. He's talked about her for years, always made it sound like harmless work stuff. Recently, I saw a text from her joking that everyone at work thinks they're sleeping together. He said it was nothing and invited me to meet her. She's not older like he implied. She's closer to our age and very touchy with him. Arm touching, leaning on him, kissed his cheek. At one point, she started crying about being lonely, and he comforted her like it was normal. She also openly talked about sleeping with coworkers and sending nudes to get favors at work, which made me feel worse, not better. He says, I'm overthinking and that's just how she is. They work together, so I can't ask for no contact. Am I being insecure or is it fair to want boundaries here? What would those even be? Okay.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Wow. Yeah. So much to say here. And I want to start by saying it sounds like this couple has been dating, she says, for years. And he's been talking about the colleague, so he hasn't been hiding her. But it's surprising to me that if they're that close, the work wife and the boyfriend, that she hasn't met her already. We meet people who are in our partners lives, so that is interesting to me.

[Gretchen Rubin]

They were texting. Jessica wasn't surprised that they were texting each other. It was the content of the text. It's odd because over so much time, it seems like they would have met each other sooner. She says, am I overthinking this?

[Lori Gottlieb]

No, no, you're underthinking it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. There is a lot going on here. What about the fact that she's joking about everyone at work thinks they're sleeping together? Well, what are those co workers seeing? They're seeing something.

[Lori Gottlieb]

They're seeing behaviors that might be similar to what Jessica saw. The touchiness, the kiss on the cheek, the kind of him comforting her. That's not what goes on between most coworkers. So I think that they're observing that. But then it's not just that they think that these two are sleeping together, but that she's saying that she's sleeping with other coworkers. She's sending nude pictures of herself to them. This is not professional behavior in any way, and it's so inappropriate. So we've got this boundary blurring behavior going on. And I wonder why the boyfriend is going along with isn't just coming from her. He's accepting it and participating in it. And so I'm a little bit curious about what does he get from being needed by her in this way. Because often these dynamics aren't so much about attraction. They're about what purpose is he serving for her. How does that give him self esteem? Is he avoiding something in his own relationship with Jessica? Are they about his identity? So. So understanding why this setup exists in the first place, why is he participating in it, is gonna be very important.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Also, it could be that he just doesn't know how to handle it. There are people where they're surrounding you with all kinds of conversation and behavior and you don't know how to stop it, and so you put up with it. But then he's dismissing it and saying it's no big deal instead of saying, I don't know what to do about it. This is an issue for me, too, because sometimes if you're not a very confrontational person, that could be hard. But then why is he saying to Jessica, this is no big deal? And also, he did imply that their relationship was different. He implied that she was older. He implied that this was harmless. Whatever he's getting out of it. He wasn't accurately depicting what was going on.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah. He was omitting the fact that this is a person who is having sex with multiple people in the office and sending nude pictures of herself to other people, which he must have known about. I don't think that that was news to him, even though it was news to Jessica. And the way that she interacts with him, that's omission. He's not saying, I'm uncomfortable with this, and I'm not sure how to deal with it because I don't want to make waves at work.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Lori Gottlieb]

He's saying, you're overreacting to this.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes. And if he'd been saying, I don't know how to handle it, then that would be a different situation. So what is her advice? I think we're going to say you need to have a conversation with your boyfriend.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Right. But let's talk about what that conversation looks like. Like.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, yeah. What do they need to cover?

[Lori Gottlieb]

So it's not just see her, don't see her, or be this way with her. Don't be this way with her. It's, do you recognize your role in this blurry relationship with your colleague that goes beyond what most people think of as a, quote, work wife? Where can those needs, whatever those needs are, can you figure out what those are, why you're in this in the first place? And can you get those addressed in a healthier way for our relationship, the one that you have with me, let's understand it. So it's not, you can do this or you can't do this. It's, I don't understand what's going on here. Do you understand why you're participating in this? That's part of it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That's part of it. And the other part is this idea of the honesty of it. Can I trust your version of this? He downplayed what was happening between the two of them. He openly called this woman his work wife, but he mischaracterized her. He never shared the kind of behaviors that then Jessica observed when she, for the first time, saw them together. None of that was presented honestly to her.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah. And I think both of those things, the two things that we just talked about, Will lead naturally to the third part of the conversation, which is, what do you expect in terms of relationships with other people? At what point are lines crossed? Every relationship has to negotiate that and understand, here are the lines for me. What are the lines for you? Because people come in with different expectations about what is and is not okay in terms of how they interact with other people. So you don't want it to be so rigid that they can't have friends or they can't be out in the world, but you don't want it to be so loose that it starts to feel like there's something that isn't quite right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

She mentioned boundaries, and boundaries are tricky because what are the boundaries? Jessica cannot set the boundaries for her boyfriend, but they could talk about what are the boundaries that they both agree would be acceptable to make this relationship something that seems less fraught with inappropriate gestures?

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah. I think it comes down to safety. What does it feel like to feel safe for each of us in this relationship? Because even if they have no contact, people say, that will make me feel safe. It won't, because that's not a solution. There's a bigger question, which is, do you have the same values and needs in a relationship? And this is really important for long term compatibility. Do you agree, does he even agree that this behavior is inappropriate or does he not see it that way? So do you align that way? That's so important to understand about each other.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I think that's really worth underscoring because the fact is, you could solve this problem, but it can come up again if her boyfriend is like, look, it's just no big deal if I'm super flirty with the people I work with. He's going to be working with people for the rest of his life. If you don't have a fundamental understanding, you're just getting rid of one example of it, but you haven't reached any kind of deeper alignment in what your values are as a couple.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Right. And the other thing is that he really dismissed her concerns. So whether it's about this or something else, that doesn't feel good to me.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I feel like if your partner brings a concern to you, you don't have to agree with their concern. You don't have to have the same perspective on it, but you do have to take it serious seriously. And so when you minimize or dismiss, that feels like an issue that they also need to start talking about. Maybe this situation is a good opportunity for them to start talking about the things that perhaps they should have been talking about earlier in the relationship, but it's not too late, and it would be a good time for them to do this now.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And what do we think acceptable behavior is? What would those very practical boundaries. People in professional relationships shake hands. They don't lean on each other. They don't kiss. They don't show each other nude photos. They don't joke around about sleeping with each other with their coworkers. They're not touchy feely and smoochy. And even sexual banter is not professional.

[Lori Gottlieb]

She could say something to him like these jokes about sleeping together and who she's sleeping with or sending nude photos to. It makes me uncomfortable. And let's see if he can take that in instead of dismissing her and saying, oh, it's no big deal. If someone says to you in a relationship, it makes me uncomfortable, that merits attention.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And is he listening openly? Is he curious to hear it? Or is he defensive and minimizing Jessica's concerns? Because if someone cares about you, they'll say, like, okay, well, whatever. My take is on this, I see that you're hurt. I see that this is really bothering you. So let's figure this out. Because it's not harmless if you're really

[Lori Gottlieb]

upset about it, right? And you're not asking him to end the friendship. You're asking him to be mindful of the parts of it that make you uncomfortable.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, Lori, So as a therapist, what do you think about somebody asking a classic question that an amateur would say is, how would you feel about it if I had a work husband who was behaving this way?

[Lori Gottlieb]

I don't think that's a useful question.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, interesting. Why not? Because I do think that that's an amateur response. Let's just flip it over and see how you like.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah, I think a lot of people do that. But the problem is we're all different. So he might say, well, that wouldn't bother me at all. And maybe it wouldn't. I don't know. But I think that the point is it bothers her. So it's not, how would you feel if this happened? It's, I feel this way.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right. It's a distraction, actually. And then they can just start arguing about whether he would or wouldn't actually feel that way, which is a hypothetical. So you can argue about that for hours.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Right. So I think that the point is for her to have the conversation. This bothers me. Let me tell you why. How do you think about boundaries in relationships? Here's how I think about them. What do you want to do with the fact that this makes me uncomfortable. And what he does with this conversation is his choice, but it's also useful information. Is he receptive? Is he willing to work together to find a way to maintain his friendship that doesn't feel overly controlled or rigid by her, but also has some lines that you both agree should not be crossed for the benefit of your relationship? And can he see that what's harmless to him bothers her and can he take that into consideration? So his reaction is going to be really useful information for her about what this means for their relationship more generally,

[Gretchen Rubin]

because in the end, the choice is hers. Is this a relationship she wants to be in? And his response was, will tell her a lot about his values, his behavior, and are they compatible when it comes to the expectations that they have around the way they behave around their friends and colleagues and how they listen to

[Lori Gottlieb]

each other, it doesn't make either one of them right or wrong. It means they might just be too different. But maybe they're not. And maybe this will open up a really important conversation between the two of them that's not just about this situation, but many situations that they'll encounter as a couple. Where are those lines? When somebody is hurt, how do we react to that? Do we take people's concerns into considerations or do we dismiss them? These are all important things for them to talk about now.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And listeners weigh in because versions of this challenge, like figuring out what to do when lines in relationships get crossed. Where do they get crossed? How do you know what the right line is? How do you work through this? Comes up in so many different contexts and forms. We all come in with our own view and our own experience so we can all learn from each other. Let us know what you think. If you've been on either side of something like this, how it went for you, let us [e-mail] and coming up, we ask the question, have you turned into your parents? We will discuss after the break.

[Lori Gottlieb]

If you're a therapist listening, you know the clinical hour is just one piece of the work we do. There's everything that surrounds it. Scheduling, documentation, billing, insurance, follow ups. The parts that keep a practice running

[Gretchen Rubin]

right, the invisible infrastructure. It takes time and it takes focus.

[Lori Gottlieb]

That's where simple practice comes in. Simple practice is an all in one EHR that is HIPAA compliant, HITRUST certified and built specifically for therapists.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It brings scheduling, billing, insurance and client communication into one place so you're not bouncing between platforms all day.

[Lori Gottlieb]

There are automated appointment reminders to help reduce no shows, and note templates that make documentation faster so the business side of your practice feels more streamlined.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And if you're starting out or expanding, there's a credentialing service that takes the headache out of insurance and enrollment, which honestly can be a huge lift.

[Lori Gottlieb]

If you're ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try simple practice.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Start with a seven day free trial, then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to SimplePractice.com to claim the offer. Again, that's SimplePractice.com cozy really clicked for us because Cozy furniture is designed to make your home comfortable, modern and practical. It's furniture that actually fits real life, not just how a room looks in photos.

[Lori Gottlieb]

What stands out about Cozy is that it's designed to fit your space and your style because it's customized by you. Cozy focuses on smart design, adaptable style and comfort that can change over time, which matters. When life doesn't stay the same.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That flexibility is huge. Cozy believes that you should have your home your way. Their modular furniture lets you chase change layouts, update colors, and adjust how things work without starting over. Plus, Cozy makes furniture shopping easier with free design consultants who help you get the most out of your space.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And emotionally, Cozy really gets it. Life at home is not picture perfect. It's messy and busy and quiet all at once. Cozy furniture is designed to meet you where you are with pieces that shift when you need space, hidden storage that helps with clutter, and washable fabrics that forgive everyday accidents.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Cozy makes furnishing your home easy.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Transform your living space today with cozy. Visit cozy.com spelled C O Z E Y the Home of possibilities made Easy

[Gretchen Rubin]

I've really shifted how I think about getting dressed. I do not want more clothes. I want better clothes. Pieces that feel good, look polished and do not require overthinking. That's honestly why I keep coming back to Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Quince makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, 100% silk, and organic cotton poplin. Their lightweight cotton cashmere sweaters are perfect for the changing seasons, and they have can't miss seasonal colors and prints for spring. These are versatile, well made pieces that make getting dressed simple and they're intentional

[Gretchen Rubin]

about how it's made. Quince works directly with safe, ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen you're not paying for brand markup or fancy retail stores just quality clothing. The linen holds up. The cotton poplin is crisp and keeps its shape. The gauze is soft without feeling flimsy. These are the pieces you reach for again and again. Again.

[Lori Gottlieb]

That quince cotton cashmere sweater has become my go to. It's light enough for layering but still feels luxe. And it didn't cost what I thought quality cashmere would. Their clothing is consistently rated 4.5 to 5 stars by thousands of customers, which makes sense when you actually wear it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Stop waiting to build the wardrobe you

[Lori Gottlieb]

actually wanted right now. Go to quint.com since you asked for free shipping and 300, 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to q U-I-N c e.com since you asked for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com since you asked. And we're back. Back with one of our popular segments, Wisdom of Crowds. And we ask in this segment for your perspective on a thought provoking question. So this week we wanted to know have you become less like or more like your parents as you've gotten older and in which ways? So our poll results were less like your parents 45%. More like your parents 55%.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And here's what people had to say who felt that they were less like their parents. Jennifer said less. I have outgrown my parents value system. We no longer align. If I met my parents as strangers on the street, I would not expect to have anything in common. One of my secrets of adulthood is in families we meet people we would never otherwise meet.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yes, absolutely. Zoe said less specifically regarding noise. My childhood home was so noisy. TV blaring, neighbors walking in shouting over the vacuum. My house is now like a library. It is a sanctuary. If the TV is on, the volume is on 12. If you want to come over, you text first.

[Gretchen Rubin]

This sounds like a reaction.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yes, but also a personality difference. That was how they felt at home. And she is a person who really values quiet. And I get that. I'm more like Zoe.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Me too. Brendan wrote my parents were quote, burn the furniture to keep the house warm. Spenders. Absolute chaos with money. I went the other way hard. I'm probably too rigid and I know I annoy my wife with the budgeting, but I just can't go back to that feeling of not knowing if the lights will stay on. So that's definitely someone who's fixing Something from childhood.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah, that's a reaction. And Jenny said, my dad was a businessman for 40 years. He sat at the same desk until he died. He waited his whole life to live and never really got the chance. I've been to 30 countries and I'm only 35. I don't own a house and don't ask me about my retirement fund. But I'm not waiting until I'm 65 to see the ocean. Another reaction.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Vanessa says, less like them every year. They were both super closed off. Never talked about feelings, never hugged. Just get on with it. I'm the opposite now. I cry at movies, tell my friends I love them, go to therapy every week. Looking back, I think they were depressed and didn't know how to handle it. I don't want to pass that on to my daughter.

[Lori Gottlieb]

These responses remind me about how we can learn about what we want from seeing what we don't want. Yeah, and then we have people who are more like their parents. Joyce said, so much like my mother. We have the same values for how to raise kids, marriage and religion. She lives in an apartment beside my home, and every night me and my sister walk from our homes to hers to visit for one hour. She is 83, and I cherish every visit we get with her.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, that sounds lovely.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Carla writes more like them, with routines. I'm up at 6. Coffee, walk the dog. Same as they did every day for 50 years, but less with money. They were so frugal. It was painful. Never spent on anything fun. I save, too, but I also take my family on vacations and buy the good coffee. So she's figuring out what works for her and using what works and letting go of what doesn't work.

[Lori Gottlieb]

A little of both.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Mm.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Clementine said, I think I'm living the life my mom actually wanted. She was really artistic, but she spent her whole life working a factory line to feed us, so she never really had time to paint. Now I work as a graphic designer. It feels good, like I'm finally getting to do the things she missed out on. I think about that a lot. So she's like her mother, because this is what her mother would have done if she had had more freedom to do that well.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And it's very beautiful to think that her mother worked so hard to give Clementine those opportunities. Betty said, I don't know if I'm becoming them. I think I just finally understand them. I spent 20 years judging my parents for being boring, horrible home buddies who never went out. Now that I'm 50 I get it. My knees hurt and everything is too loud. Staying home with tea doesn't feel boring anymore. It feels like a relief. I owe them an apology.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I love that. I don't know if I'm becoming them. I think I finally understand them. I think that does happen. As we get older, we start to understand more about these people who feel like fully fledged humans as opposed to just our parents. And Sonia said, my dad's been gone 10 years, and I still hear him in my head when I'm working in the yard or fixing something around the house. I fought so hard not to be like him when I was younger, but now those little habits feel like he's still here. It's bittersweet.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Oh, that's lovely. And then Peggy said, it's not just about behavior. It's the physical inevitability of it all. I looked down at my hands on the steering wheel the other day, and for a split second, I thought they belonged to my Nana. The veins, the spots. It was just like she was driving the car. We were just Russian nesting dolls of the people who came before us. It's comforting and terrifying all at once. That's profound. How about you, Laurie? Would you say you're more like your parents or less like your parents?

[Lori Gottlieb]

I would say in some ways more like my dad. Definitely less like my mom. But I do remember that when I became a parent, I heard myself one day saying the exact same words that my parents said, even though when I. I swore I would never say that or do that. And so it's interesting how parenting can bring up our history with our own parents and how we have to be so aware sometimes to figure out what from the past we want to keep, because many people gave examples of what they want to keep and then what to discard. When should we be more like or less like our parents as we become adults? And I think that's part of the work of adulthood, is figuring that out.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And I know that feeling that Peggy says she felt like she had her grandmother's hands. I sometimes will do something, and I do feel like I'm channeling a parent, like, so directly for me. I picked up a habit of napping from my father. My father was the most dedicated and enthusiastic napper. And finally, a few years ago, partly because of him and partly because all the research on the benefits of napping, I thought, oh, I should try napping myself. And now every time I lie down, I think of my father, and, like, there's just nothing like a good nap. And then my mother, I realized that I had picked up, I don't know that I would have noticed this so much except that it's something my mother taught and now I've really picked it up, which is having a lot of things on the kitchen counter. My mother's like, it only goes on the kitchen counter if you really use it every day, like a coffee machine. If you've got a standing mixer, you put that thing in a closet. You don't put a lot of stuff on your kitchen counter. And it's such a little thing. But I really notice it strangely important to me to police my kitchen counters.

[Lori Gottlieb]

This reminds me of that question about the messy teens room because I think that as parents we think if we model these habits like we don't leave extraneous things on the counter and we we have neat spaces that our kids will pick that up. And sometimes like you, they do and sometimes they don't.

[Gretchen Rubin]

No. Because as some of the listeners, they go hard the other direction. So yeah, who knows how it's all going to turn out. After the break, we have a very interesting question about how much financial support we should give our parents. But first, this break. I think a lot of us grew up assuming banking just came with fees, overdraft charges, monthly fees, waiting days for your own paycheck. It felt normal even when it was frustrating. Chime is changing the way people bank fee free and smarter banking built for you. Not like old school banks that charge overdraft and monthly fees built for you, not the 1%.

[Lori Gottlieb]

What stands out is that Chime unlocks smart, smarter banking for everyday people. With products like MyPay, you can access up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and get paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Some old banks still don't offer that and you can forget overdraft fees, minimum balance fees and monthly fees.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It also shifts how everyday spending works. Chime turns everyday spending into real rewards and financial progress. You can bank fee free with overdraft coverage you can count on Build credit Credit history stress free. Earn up to 3% APY on savings, which is seven times higher than a traditional bank. And they are rated 5 stars by USA Today for customer service with real humans 24.

[Lori Gottlieb]

7 and the Chime Card is a new way to build credit history with your own money and get rewarded every single day. No annual fees, no interest, no strings attached. When you get qualifying direct deposits, you get 1.5% cash cash back on eligible Chime card purchases. This is exactly what my younger self

[Gretchen Rubin]

needed Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank join the millions who are already banking fee free today.

[Lori Gottlieb]

It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to Chime.com since you asked. That's Chime.com since you asked. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services a secured Chime Visa credit card and my pay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hey, it's Hasan Minhaj here from the Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know podcast. Among other things. And I hate the smell of rotting food almost as much as I hate wasting it in the first place. Thankfully, now I have mill. Mill is a food recycler that is odorless, guiltless and completely effortless. See, I've always wanted to reduce my food waste. It is one of the easiest ways for an individual to make a big impact on the environment. But I just cannot stand the mess of a compost bin in the kitchen. But with mill, all you do is drop in your scraps and you let it go. It works quickly and quietly, turning your food, even small bones, into nutrient rich grounds. Now I take out the trash way less. Yet my kitchen smells way better and I don't have to feel guilty when my zucchini gets moldy. Plus it looks cool. Yeah, this trash can alternative is so fly. People keep asking me where I got the giant Alexa. It's chic and savvy, but you have to live with MIL to really get it. Good thing. You can try it risk free for 90 days right now and get $75 off with code HMDK visit mil.com HMDK that is mill.com HM.

[Gretchen Rubin]

There is one thing that every person on earth has in common. We all move through the world in a human body.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Bodies ache, they bleed, they desire, they hold the stories of our lives.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And when people have power over their bodies, when they can access the care their bodies need, they can begin to write their own stories.

[Lori Gottlieb]

International Planned Parenthood Federation, or ippf, is the world's largest network for sexual and reproductive health rights and justice. They are sharing real stories of people

[Gretchen Rubin]

around the world like Alina in Malawi who walked miles to the nearest clinic to give birth only to deliver her baby along the way.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Everybody holds a story.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Read just a few of them [e-mail] everybody

[Lori Gottlieb]

foreign. So we're back and before we go, we always leave you with the question that we'll be talking through on next week's episode. This question is from Claire and it's about the delicate topic of families and money and here's what she wrote. My elderly mother in law retired at 57 with what I thought would be a substantial inheritance that, if managed appropriately, would keep her retirement comfortable. Instead, she has proceeded to not make appropriate decisions. She volunteers even in the case where she could have gotten paid work and given money to friends and organizations that don't stop asking for more. She moved in 12 years ago after the stock market crash decimated her account and has used the no renter utilities savings to continue spending on vacations and charitable causes to no end. She's not extravagant by any means, but she's not living within her means and is now asking for money to pay ongoing costs like life insurance, cell phone, etc. I'm enraged as she has no accountability to her spending habits but asks for help. We are already helping her as much as I want without it affecting our household priorities. Our son is starting college this year. It's such an unnatural thing for a mother to conscript her own child and continually make bad choices. To watch her own child provide that which she refused to provide for herself feels like a weird generational entitlement. Well yeah, we will get into this one next week. There's a lot to say about this and meanwhile, if you have thoughts you want to share, we would love to hear them at thesince you asked podcast.com

[Gretchen Rubin]

and that's it for today. Remember now you can watch since youe Asked on stage, CNN.com watched or on the CNN app and remember to send us your questions. We love hearing them. Big or small, we want to hear them all. And please rate or review the show. It's a big help.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yes, rating and reviewing the show really helps people to find the show. So if you can take 60 seconds to just click on a quick rating or review, we would so appreciate it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And remember, whether this podcast changes your life or just makes you laugh, we're glad you're here.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Since youe Asked is for entertainment purposes

[Hasan Minhaj]

only and isn't a substitute for professional advice.

[Lori Gottlieb]

By sending us your question, you're agreeing

[Gretchen Rubin]

we may use it on the show

[Hasan Minhaj]

and edit it for length or clarity.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestseller bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.