What Happens When a Grandparent Won't Say No? Plus: Friends Who Are Difficult Diners

Summary

Podcast Summary: “What Happens When a Grandparent Won't Say No? Plus: Friends Who Are Difficult Diners”

Since You Asked with Lori Gottlieb and Gretchen Rubin | Lemonada Media
Date: November 18, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode of "Since You Asked" with Gretchen Rubin and Lori Gottlieb tackles dilemmas involving overindulgent grandparents and the challenges of dealing with difficult diner friends. The hosts address real listener questions, discuss group dynamics in recreational teams, and share community responses to tricky social scenarios, blending practical wisdom and humor.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener Follow-Ups on Previous Advice

• Husband’s Family Lodging Preferences (02:26–04:29):
  A listener updates the hosts on how previous podcast advice helped her understand her husband's need for privacy during parental visits. This led to better communication and compromise in her marriage.
  • “One of the main things for my husband is that he wanted to feel understood... Although he does love my family, the comments from Mandy [Patinkin] resonated with both him and I…” – Listener Hannah (02:48)
• Handling Snappiness in Relationships (04:52–05:42):
  Another listener suggests using “memento mori” (awareness of mortality) as a tool to curb impatience and snappiness with loved ones.

Notable Quote:
“How would I be treating this person if today was our last day on Earth together?... It almost instantly makes me shift my behavior.”
— Listener Hannah (04:52)

---

2. Navigating Group Dynamics: Sports Team Scheduling Conflict

Main Listener Question (06:27–13:14)

A listener co-founded a recreational sports team. Her co-founder now wants the group to change their practice night to accommodate her kids’ schedules, potentially at the group's expense. Should one person’s preferences (even a co-founder) dictate the group’s activities?

Hosts’ Advice:

• Acknowledge Unreasonableness: It's not reasonable for one member to expect the entire group to adjust for her situation (08:08–08:28).
• Friendship vs. Policy: Friendship complicates impartial decision-making, but group needs come first (08:28–09:23).
• Set Clear Policies: Suggest stating openly: “This is the night that works for the team and coach. If individual circumstances change, you're welcome to rejoin when able” (11:24–12:12).
• Don’t “Do Her Bidding”: The co-founder can pose her request directly to the group instead of making the caller act as mediator (09:51–10:26).

Notable Quote:
“Groups really do best when the expectations and policies are clear, even in casual groups like this.”
— Lori Gottlieb (11:24)

Memorable Moment:
Gretchen notes that many people "kind of want somebody else to do all the work" of schedule wrangling, and how such burden often falls to organizers (09:23).

---

3. Wisdom of Crowds: Difficult Friends at Restaurants (13:35–19:14)

Poll Results:

• Leave a huge tip to compensate: 46%
• Gently try to get your friend to chill: 28%
• Ignore: 19%
• Apologize to the server in front of friend: 7% (14:04)

Listener Opinions:

• Some have accepted their friends’ quirks, as long as they remain polite (Amanda's story of "extra hot lattes and 20 lemon slices" – 14:27).
• Teasing or humorous approaches can ease tension but risk sounding passive-aggressive (Jenny Bell’s “not too French” fries joke – 15:00).
• Awareness and empathy are crucial; food allergies and legitimate dietary needs should always be taken seriously (Aaron’s experience as a diabetic – 15:55–16:42).
• Impatient, rude, or excessive behavior, however, may signal deeper underlying issues, per both hosts and some listeners (18:04–19:14).

Notable Quote:
“How a person treats service professionals tells you everything you need to know about them as a person.”
— Listener Kelly (15:42)

Host Reflection:
“If they’re doing it every single time, then clearly it isn’t the food. This is the person’s pattern of behavior.”
— Gretchen Rubin (19:11)

---

4. Main Segment: Overindulgent Grandma – Where’s the Line? (23:24–32:53)

Listener Tanya’s Dilemma (23:34–25:36)

Tanya describes her mother-in-law as loving but unable to say "no" to the grandkids, leading them to exploit her generosity—skipping chores, repeatedly getting replacement toys, and even pitting grandmother against parents.

Discussion Highlights

• “Grandparent Boundaries”:

  • Grandparents have a unique and cherished role, and some flexibility is healthy; "kids do understand different rules at different houses" (26:07–26:38).
  • True manipulation or long-term harm is unlikely if parents maintain structure at home (26:38–27:05).

• Dealing With Grandparent Overindulgence:

  • Draw the line where the grandparent’s actions directly affect your own household or undermine your authority (28:04, 32:07).
  • Assign “special” activities to each household: e.g., “Miniature golf is our thing—please leave that for us” (28:04–28:16).
  • If children run to grandma for “rescue,” reinforce with both child and grandma that parental decisions are final. Repetition of this response trains both parties (27:05–28:04).

• Perspective & Research:

  • Highlight the fleeting nature of this stage and the positive, buffer-like impact of grandparent relationships on children's mental health (28:37–28:58).

Notable Quotes:

• “Be grateful that the grandchildren want to spend this time with their grandmother… Even if it feels a little exploitative, it’s wonderful to have these close ties.”
  — Gretchen Rubin (28:16)
• “Kids feel safe with structure and limits and consequences. You guys aren’t the bad guys. They crave this sense of containment.”
  — Lori Gottlieb (31:10)

• Enabling vs. Overindulgence:
  • Lori clarifies: "Enabling" is supporting genuinely destructive behavior; this scenario is best categorized as “overindulgence” (29:38–30:49).
  • Overindulgence from a grandparent is generally harmless, provided kids are learning boundaries elsewhere.

Actionable Advice (31:01–32:35)

• Stay focused on maintaining clear expectations at home.
• Request that grandma not intervene in parent-child disputes or certain family traditions.
• Don’t overreact; cherish this special intergenerational connection.

Host Wisdom:
“For the things that she loves doing and she wants to do, even if you think they’re excessive, why intervene if she wants to?”
— Gretchen Rubin (32:07)

---

5. Bonus Listener Segment: “Post-Event Blues” (36:46–39:53)

• A listener’s question about post-wedding depression leads to a group reflection on the “crash” after big accomplishments—marathons, holidays, sending kids to college.
• Listeners emphasize this is normal and share tips for planning something new to avoid the “letdown.”

Notable Quote:
“There is so much anticipation… You think not only is it going to be positive when it happens, but the positivity is going to last.”
— Lori Gottlieb (39:33)

---

Most Memorable Quotes

• “Groups really do best when the expectations and policies are clear, even in casual groups like this.” — Lori Gottlieb (11:24)
• “How a person treats service professionals tells you everything you need to know about them as a person.” — Listener Kelly (15:42)
• “Be grateful that the grandchildren want to spend this time with their grandmother. Even if it feels a little exploitative, it’s wonderful to have these close ties.” — Gretchen Rubin (28:16)
• “Kids feel safe with structure and limits and consequences.... They crave this sense of containment.” — Lori Gottlieb (31:10)

---

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 02:26: Family lodging boundary discussion (Listener follow-up)
• 06:27: Navigating co-founder scheduling conflicts in groups
• 13:35: Survey and listener input—difficult diners at restaurants
• 23:34: Overindulgent grandparent dilemma and advice
• 36:46: “Post-wedding blues” and post-event letdown stories

---

Tone & Style

Lori and Gretchen maintain an empathetic, conversational tone throughout—balancing humor, research-based insights, and personal experience. They encourage listeners to reflect with compassion on both themselves and others, and to seek happy mediums in everyday dilemmas.

---

Next Episode Teaser

The hosts invite discussion on a delicate issue:
How do you tell a friend their Botox/fillers are getting out of hand (or do you stay silent)?

---

This episode is rich in real-life dilemmas, practical frameworks, and compassionate advice—an engaging listen for anyone navigating family, friendship, and group dynamics.

Transcript

[Gretchen Rubin]

There is one thing that every person on Earth has in common. We all move through the world in a human body.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Our bodies ache, they bleed, they desire, they hold the stories of our lives.

[Gretchen Rubin]

International Planned Parenthood Federation or IPPF is sharing some of those stories from around the world.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Read them [e-mail] everybody.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Hey everybody, it's Hoda Kotb and I would love for you to join me for new episodes of my podcast Making Space. Each week I'm having conversations with authors, actors, speakers and dear friends of mine, folks who are seeking the truth, compassion and self discovery. I promise you will lead these talks stronger and inspired to make space in your own life for growth and change. To start listening, just search Making Space wherever you get your podcasts and follow for new episodes every Wednesday.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Lemonader.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I have a question regarding an enabling mother in law. I often see her going overboard with my kids and nieces and nephews. Is there a happy medium without knocking the parents down or emitting responsibility?

[Lori Gottlieb]

You and I, Gretchen, have talked a lot about the value of grandparents, but there still are some boundaries that need to be in place. But the question is, how permeable are those boundaries?

[Gretchen Rubin]

This is a fleeting time. Be grateful that the grandchildren want to spend this time with their grandmother, even if it feels a little exploitative.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Hey Lori, Hi there Gretchen.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And hello listeners. This is the since youe Asked podcast where we take your questions about big matters and small and suggest our best advice. Plus, we share advice and observations from you, our since you Asked listeners, and who always have a lot to add. I'm Gretchen Rubin, a writer who studies happiness and human nature, among other things. I write the five Things Making Me Happy newsletter. You can sign up if you want.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And I'm Lori Gottlieb. I'm a psychotherapist and the author of maybe youe Should Talk to Someone. I also write the Ask the Therapist column for the New York Times. And before we jump into new questions for today, we have some interesting follow up responses to previous episodes that we want to share with you.

[Gretchen Rubin]

First, we got an update from the anonymous listener whose question we discussed in both episode seven and eight about her husband's preference that her parents stay in a hotel instead of their guest room when they visit for several days. In episode seven, our guests Mandy Patinkin and Katherine Grody weighed in with their thoughts and here's what the listener had to say.

[Listener Hannah]

Thank you guys so much for answering my question. Your advice brought up a couple of conversations that my husband and I got to have. One of the main things for my husband is that he wanted to feel understood, and he wanted me to see how it might be overwhelming for him. Although he does love my family, the comments from Mandy resonated with both him and I about wanting to maintain a level of privacy. And it's something we both feel when we have visitors. Because of discussing that, I was able to put myself in his shoes more and become less defensive about it being my family and instead just agree that there is a level of privacy that we like to have when we have company. We've thought about too. How long is too long? It isn't really something we thought about before. So kind of defining those parameters about, well, is a long weekend too long or is a week too long?

[Listener Tanya]

And.

[Listener Hannah]

And getting on the same page there, I think will be helpful in the future as we have company. So thank you again. We really appreciate it.

[Lori Gottlieb]

What I loved about this question is there were so many different takes on it. Mandy had a take, Catherine had a take. You had a take, I had a take. So I'm glad that she was able to get some good advice that worked for her and her husband to at least start the conversation and start to negotiate with each other.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And also, as is so often the case when you actually sit down and talk about it, not like, I'm right, you're wrong, or I need to win, you need to win. Just what's going on here? What is it that you're seeking? What is it that's bothering you? They were able to reach a place where they were both coming from more similar perspectives and then able to move forward together better. So that's great.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah. I saw that they found more overlap than they initially thought that they had.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And then also they were sort of arguing, in theory, where they hadn't even really gotten into, well, how long is too long? That's a really important question. Next is a response to a question we discussed in episode three from a listener who found herself being very snappy with her husband. And she said, this snappiness is part of my nature. And after so many years, she didn't think he should expect her to change. And our listener, Hannah, responded to this.

[Listener Hannah]

Hi, my name is Hannah, and I wanted to share my perspective about Andrea's situation where she had been getting snappy with her husband. I also struggle with the same thing and can get impatient at times, but in times where I find myself being impatient with anyone, including my husband, I ask myself, how would I be treating this person if today was our last day on Earth together? I know that may be a little bit morbid, but it almost instantly makes me shift my behavior and prevents me from being snappy, which I always regret. So I recommend just reminding yourself that our life is very short and it usually is never worth it to get snappy. So if you have to remind yourself something like that, then I really recommend it because it can prevent you from overreacting.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, this is a memento mori practice, which is an ancient tradition, which is remind yourself that it's all going to come to an end and that can really shift your perspective. This is a really constructive suggestion.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I thought people think that it's really morbid to think about death, but actually thinking about death can help you choose to live your life with more vitality and more in line with what's important to you. So. So I like that she brought that up and I think it might get other people thinking about that too.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Absolutely.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Okay, so let's jump into this week's advice. Last week we gave you this question to think about. It was from a caller who wants to remain anonymous. So since you asked, let's share your question.

[Listener Tanya]

Hey there. I've got a bit of a conundrum and I'm hoping you guys can help. A few years ago, a good friend and I started a recreational sports team. We put together a great group of women who are in similar life stages and everybody gets along fantastically. I think as a group, everybody on the team would love to continue doing this for many, many years to come. At the end of last year, however, my friend let us know that unless we switched the night of our practice, she probably couldn't continue to participate due to the sports schedules of her two children. I kind of thought she would back down, but at one point she actually said something like, well, how are you going to choose between me and them? We did an initial poll of the team to see if a date shift would be possible and the results were kind of mixed. For some was no problem at all and for others it was doable but kind of complicated due to shifting childcare needs or work schedules or spousal work schedules. If we switch days, we'd also likely lose our coach, who's very popular with the group. So that was a concern. I'm kind of at a loss for how to proceed. Do I ask the full group to make all of these accommodations for my friend's kids sports schedules and if so, what happens next year if the kids sports interests change? Right. Something new that has a different night commitment. Are we going to be following Their sports schedules forever. I really don't want my friend to leave the team, but I also want to recognize the busy and complicated schedules of everybody else in the group as well. The question really is more around whether this is reasonable of her to ask, how would you proceed with navigating these schedule conflicts?

[Gretchen Rubin]

I think in just the way that she phrases the question, it's very clear that the caller knows the answer to her question. She knows that she does not think that this is reasonable, just in the way that it's framed. I find is often when people ask a question, it's like, you know the answer to your question. The phrasing of this question makes the answer quite clear.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah, I think she knows the answer too. But I think where she's getting stuck is that these two friends co founded the team together, and I think she feels an extra obligation to the co founder. This team wouldn't exist if the two of us hadn't done this. And so I think she's feeling a little bit guilty. We really wanted to do this, and now the friend is not going to be able to participate.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And at the same time, she knows what she has to do.

[Gretchen Rubin]

But I think it's interesting. Does she have to do anything? Because I think one thing is the friend is looking to the caller like, okay, you figured this out. You negotiate this. And she says, well, I'm at a loss at how to proceed. Well, one of the thing is, you just don't do anything. If the answer is, we should probably just keep things the way they are. And the rule should be we don't move it around. From time to time, we have this coach that we really like. We have many, many people. People's schedules change all the time. We're just gonna keep it on this date.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I think if she can look at this like, if this was not a group of friends, if this was just a group, a recreational sports league, and one person in the league said, hey, can all of you switch your day? Because I have a conflict. Nobody would say it's unreasonable to say no to that. I don't think the person would even ask. But because this is getting mixed in with the friendship element, I think she's feeling she wants me to take her side.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, exactly.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And so she asked the caller to do her bidding. And the caller responded to that instead of what you and I might have suggested to her, that point would be to say, why don't you ask the group? This isn't my scheduling conflict. Why don't you ask the group? And See what they think and at what point does it just become so untenable that the group ends up breaking up and they lose this really nice activity that they do together because they have to keep switching it. So I think when you take out the friendship element and say, is it reasonable for someone on a recreational sports team to ask everybody else to move their schedule? Well, probably not so much.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right?

[Listener Tanya]

Right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It is a little different because the person is a co founder. I do think since you are one of the founders of the group, that's worth thinking about. But with so many people and so many complexities, I have noticed, I've been in groups often and there is a kind of person who will often say, oh, well, that date that we agreed on doesn't work for me, so can we move it? Then they expect somebody else to be like, oh, okay, well, what about Thursday at 4pm yes. That's so burdensome. So given the situation, what is our advice? One piece of advice is to say to the group, generally, there's never gonna be a perfect day. That's always gonna work for everyone year after year. And each individual's best days may change year after year. So maybe the policy of our group is that we stick to the same day in part because that way we keep the coach, which is something that we all value. And that way the coach provides the logic of preferring the to keep the date instead of saying, well, why aren't we accommodating to the co founder? So that gives you a logic to point to.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Right. I was really interested in that comment the friend made about, well, what are you gonna choose? Are you gonna choose between me and the group? I think she needs to tell her friend, I'm not choosing between you and the group. And to explain that groups really do best when the expectations and policies are clear, even in casual groups like this. And so now, I think, is a time to say to the whole group, this is the night that we meet. Sometimes schedules will conflict and if someone has to miss some nights or drop out templ temporarily, that's okay. We'll be happy to have you back as soon as you can make it again. We're not kicking you out of the group. You're always welcome here, but this is the time that it meets. And I like what you said, Gretchen, about at some point the coach might not be able to make a date change. So really I think that they've decided on a date. It works for the coach and they should stick with it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And then if you can't come for some period of time, you're always welcome back, come back when it works for you. And by the way, you could go to all these great lengths to try to accommodate her and then in the end it doesn't even work anyway.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And here's a really interesting thing that could happen too, is that when you say we're not changing the date and someone says, well, I absolutely can't come, and she wants to go to 100% of her kids games, she may find that she misses the group so much that maybe sometimes she will miss one of her kids games and that that's not the end of the world because this is really important to her. And also her kids sports schedules are gonna change so they won't always be on that night. They switch all the time. So she'll be back. It's just a question of is she gonna make some kind of sacrifice on her end to come back or is she gonna wait until her kid's sports schedule changes and then she'll come back? But you're not kicking her out. She's absolutely welcome and that's the message that she needs to get right.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It's not that you're less important, it's just that this is what works. It's a really good thing that you're doing for your friends and for your group. So stick with it even though it's causing you this little bit of a headache.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yes, group dynamics can be tricky, but we're trying to make it easier and we'd love to hear what you think. We'd love to hear your responses. So for info about how to weigh in or how to submit your own question, go to the since you ask podcast.com we always love your feedback.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And now for our segment, the Wisdom of Crowds. These are so fun when we post a question on social media and hear what everybody has to say. So we asked if you have a friend who is difficult in restaurants, such as sending food back, customizing multiple orders to impatient. Do you apologize to the server in front of your friend? Gently try to get your friend to chill, Leave a huge tip to compensate, or do you ignore it?

[Lori Gottlieb]

And so here's how you responded. Apologize to the server in front of the friend. 7% of you chose that. Gently try to get your friend to chill. 28% of you said that. Leave a huge tip to compensate. 46% of you said that. And ignore. 19% of you said that. And here were some of your responses.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Amanda said, one of my closest family members is a very high maintenance restaurant goer. Can I have my latte extra hot? Like have it burn me. I need five extra sauces. Please bring me 20 lemon slices. When I was younger, it used to bother me a lot, but now I've accepted that one, this is who she is. Two, as long as she's being polite, there really is no issue. And three, I secretly enjoy being the straightforward customer by comparison. It's a quirk and I guarantee those in the restaurant business have seen worse. Okay, that's funny.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I like that she likes being the good one.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Jenny Bell said, I tend to make a teasing joke about it in front of my friend with the waiter waitress present. For example, after the friend has made their list of changes or complaints, I'll say something like, oh, and also can you make sure the fries are French but not too French? It eases the tension. It kind of works as an apology or announcement of self awareness to the waiter and it gives my friend a teasing heads up that she's going overboard.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So that's used in humor or is that little passive aggressive?

[Lori Gottlieb]

What do you think that's gonna be all in the delivery? That's that fine line that we talk about so much on this podcast about how humor can diffuse a situation. But you have to get the tone right so that it's doesn't feel critical or judgmental or you're talking down to someone.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, yes, it's all in the delivery. Kelly says how a person treats service professionals tells you everything you need to know about them as a person. If it was bad, I would apologize and leave a huge tip and then end the friendship. Whoa.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Wow. Aaron said I'd want to know why they're customizing. Do they have food allergies or intolerance? I have friends with legitimate allergies but have had servers not believe them. That can be upsetting and dangerous. If you calmly explain why, it really helps.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, my sister's a type 1 diabetic. She's like, I need to know this because of insulin. And sometimes people clearly just don't believe her. And it is. It's very upsetting if you're not believed when you have a serious food issue. So I think that's a really good point. Then another Aaron said, this is me. I'm the difficult one. Although I am very patient, I do actually have food restrictions and will ask for a correction or speak up when something goes missing or a mistake makes it inedible for me. I try not to waste food though, so I'm difficult but aware. And I tip 20% or more always.

[Listener Hannah]

Okay.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Self aware.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I like that I'm difficult, but aware. Awareness is always the first step, as we like to say in therapy.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Anna said, being impatient seems to be the only offensive quality here. Sending food back if it comes out wrong. What's wrong with that? Customizes orders, one or multiple. What's wrong with asking for no onions if you don't like onions? Dressing on the side if you don't want it on the salad. What's wrong with sending a medium well steak back if it's too rare? Why is any of that being difficult? I can't imagine judging a friend as difficult if she sent food back that came out wrong or if she asked for a preference about how her food was prepared. Kind of shocked that this is the question.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay. We've not yet responded to that, saying, if none of this registers as difficult, you're probably that friend and have never worked in the service industry. And that comment got hundreds of likes.

[Lori Gottlieb]

There's a distinction.

[Gretchen Rubin]

There's a difference of opinion here. Yes.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And Robert said, my father was like this. I would always get there at least five minutes early and explain that he was very demanding. Sending multiple things back claiming the coffee was stale so they could be prepared. Then I would leave a huge tip. I like that. I like the giving people a heads up so that they know, first of all, you don't want to be embarrassed sitting there, so it's not you. But also it's not the server and they know they're going to get a huge tip and they know that you're aware that this is a difficult table for them.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I think that's a very elegant and thoughtful solution. Ben said, I think life is too short for me personally to be around that sort of behavior very often, which seems to be when people don't feel in control of themselves unless they feel they can control everyone else. But if something was going on for them, it wasn't their usual attitude. I would just leave a big tip. Interesting.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So, Laurie, where would you weigh in on this one?

[Lori Gottlieb]

So I think it depends on the situation. It depends how difficult the friend is being. Otherwise I would just leave a huge tip to compensate. What about you?

[Gretchen Rubin]

I would ignore it too. One of the things I would say is I am often customizing orders because I don't eat sugar and I don't really eat bread or something like French fries. I'm often saying, and I don't want a bun and I don't want the French fries because I hate to see the food go to waste. But I try to say it in a very nice way and I always do leave a proper tip.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And I also think that it's a treat to go out. And so I think that it's reasonable that if you want to order something the way you want it because you're having someone else cook a meal for you, you're paying for that service, that it's okay to do that. It's just a question of degree. And I think that that's where our listener responses were really interesting. What is that line? Where is that line? And then what do you do if that line is crossed and if somebody's.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Doing it every single time, then clearly it isn't the food. This is the person's pattern of behavior.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And I would just say from the therapy angle that if a person is doing that in one setting, they might be doing it in many settings. And that might be something that isn't just about the food at a restaurant.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, this is the comment of Ben, the final comment. It's tapping into some larger behavior. So fascinating. Coming up, we'll answer a question about an overindulgent grandmother and a daughter in law who would like to dial back her behavior. But first, this break.

[Lori Gottlieb]

This episode is sponsored by Squarespace, the all in one platform that helps you build and grow your online presence. Whether you're starting something new or refining what you already do, Squarespace brings it all together in one place.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Our sensuous website is built on Squarespace and it has been such an easy way to keep everything organized.

[Lori Gottlieb]

What stands out is how intuitive it feels. Their AI website builder, Blueprint, can create a custom site for you in minutes. You just tell it what you need and it helps design something that fits your style and goals.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Once you're up and running, everything you need to stay connected is built right in. You can send email, campaigns, review analytics and see what's working, all from the same dashboard.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Head to squarespace.com since you asked for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use code since you asked to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is sponsored by suvi, the smart countertop oven and flexible meal delivery service that makes easy dinner. One less thing to stress about.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It is perfect for busy nights. You can load your meal in the morning and the Sous Vide kitchen robot keeps it refrigerated until it's time to cook. You don't even have to be home to start it.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And with Tap to Cook technology, you just scan the recipe card and Suvi knows exactly how to cook your meal. Chef crafted dinners show up at your door and there are more than 50 options with new ones added every week.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It fits right on your counter with over 15 cooking like air fry, bake, roast, slow cook and sous vide. You can even use your own ingredients.

[Lori Gottlieb]

If you want, so stop spending hours in the kitchen or a fortune on takeout. Sous Vide takes all the stress out of planning dinner and they even offer a hundred day risk free trial.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Go to sous vide.com since youe Asked to Get 16 Free Meals when you order. That's S u v I e.com since you asked. Save time. Eat better with Suvi After a certain age, things may just start to feel off. We may be losing sleep, feeling anxious and moody, gaining weight with no explanation. It may feel like there's nowhere to turn for answers about what's happening to our bodies. But now there's a solution with hers.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I'm so excited. HERS now offers access to perimenopausal care. This expands their online health and wellness platform, trusted by hundreds of thousands of women for more accessible and personalized health healthcare for weight loss, hair regrowth, mental health and more.

[Gretchen Rubin]

The process is simple. Start today by completing a medical intake online and a licensed provider trained in women's health will review your information and create your personalized treatment plan. No long waits, no awkward office visits and no insurance required.

[Lori Gottlieb]

If prescribed, you'll have access to a wide variety of clinically prescribed treatment kits, including pills, patches and creams, all tailored to your unique needs. Plus, you get continuous support throughout the HERS app with guidance for sleep, nutrition and exercise, and unlimited messaging with your care team at no extra cost.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It should be simpler to access healthcare built around you and your unique needs. Whether you want to manage perimenopause or menopause symptoms, lose weight, grow thicker hair, or find relief for anxiety. HERS has women covered.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Visit F O R h e r s.com since you asked to get a personalized perimenopause treatment plan that's right for you. That's F o r h E-R-S.com since you asked.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Not available in all 50 states. Perimenopause and menopause by hers includes hormonal health support, educational resources, digital tools, and prescription oftens if appropriate. Hormone replacement therapies are not FDA approved for the treatment of perimenopause but may be prescribed off label for perimenopausal symptoms at a provider's discretion. See website for full details. Important safety information and restrictions.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And we're back with with a question from Tanya and it's about an issue with her mother in law. She seems to get along well with her except for this one thing Tonya.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Asks I have a question regarding an enabling mother in law. My mother in law is such a kind hearted and nurturing person and I love this about her, but I often see her going overboard with my kids and nieces and nephews, totally omitting any lessons in responsibility and letting them treat her like a servant. I have never heard her say no to any of their requests regardless of how ridiculous. For example, if the kids break a toy no matter the cost, she immediately replaces it without any hesitation or word of caution. Now that the kids are getting older, they seem to be taking advantage of her need to please. For instance, demanding multiple trips per day to fast food restaurants, nephews and nieces tagging along last minute for pre planned out of state trips, driving 200 plus miles to do something the kids want to do that the parents have told them no begging to stay with her for days or weeks so they don't have to participate in family chores at home, et cetera. As soon as the kids are faced with something they don't like, they are on the phone with grandma sometimes going behind our backs or getting grandma to argue for them. I feel like this is teaching the kids to manipulate people and it's turning the parents into bad guys who don't let them have fun rather than teaching kids responsibility and valuable coping skills. We have briefly talked to my mother in law about this and often tried to intercede when we are present, but it is just her nature and she doesn't see anything wrong with it, especially at her own house. She is usually more willing to listen at our houses, but not always. I'm wondering if it is worth having a sit down discussion with her or if the her house her rules mentality is fine for kids to fall back on if they have structure at home. At the same time, I don't want to become a drill sergeant to make up for her lack of discipline or miss out on memories with my kids because she's agreed to an activity five times already. Is there a happy medium where Grandma can be on a pedestal without knocking the parents down or emitting responsibility? Thank you and love the podcast. Well, thank you very much Tanya. That's really nice to hear.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Thank you. We like that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Interesting question.

[Lori Gottlieb]

It is. And you and I, Gretchen, have talked a lot about the value of grandparents, but at the same time there still are some boundaries that need to be in place. But the question is, how permeable are those boundaries? Can we let the grandparents be grandparents and do something different from the parents and have that special relationship with their grandkids? And where do we need to step in as the parents and say, wait a minute, we need to set a limit here?

[Gretchen Rubin]

And it does seem that to a very large degree, children do understand different rules in different houses. And if Tanya's worried that this is a pattern that's teaching her children these dark lessons in manipulation and taking advantage of people and keeping them from learning responsibility, I mean, that seems a little overblown. I think they get this is our super indulgent grandma. It doesn't seem like this is something that's gonna make them these Machiavellian nightmares in everyday life.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Right? Right. I think that they can tell the difference between the boundaries at home and how you act in the broader world. I think that if there are things that the parents don't want the kids to be doing, maybe they don't want them going for fast food five times a day, but occasionally they can do that. That's fine. Or they already said no because there's a safety issue, or they have to be home because they have to get their homework done or chores done. Okay, no means no.

[Listener Tanya]

But.

[Lori Gottlieb]

But I would want them to have as much leeway as possible so that if it's not a safety issue or a logistical issue, that the kids can go and have this special relationship with their grandma. And I would say something too about the manipulation. I feel like Tanya is saying that the kids are learning to manipulate people. I think that the parents are being manipulated here and that the parents are the ones who really need to not fall for the manipulation. Oh, okay. So you can say to grandma, please don't lobby on behalf of the kids. If we say no, that's between us and the kids, and your intervention won't change that. And then if the grandma tries again, you say, oops, sounds like you forgot our conversation. We're not discussing this, but let's catch up another time. And you end the call. And if you do this every time, the grandma is going to stop doing this because she's not getting anywhere with it. And the kids will stop asking her because they'll see that it's futile. Grandma, calling the parents is not going to change anything. So parents, don't let yourself get manipulated.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And if there's an activity you want to do yourself, you could say to your mother in law, we would like to claim that we Would like miniature golf to be our thing. So please don't do that because that's within your purview. But also, this is a fleeting time.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yes.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Be grateful that the grandchildren want to spend this time with their grandmother. Even if you do feel like, okay, they're doing it because they want to run and get fast food all the time. Even if it feels a little exploitative, it's wonderful to have these close ties. These are wonderful experiences for these grandparents and grandchildren to share. And this stage is gonna pass.

[Lori Gottlieb]

It will.

[Gretchen Rubin]

When you're begging to go get fast food with your grandma, that's gonna end. And as you mentioned, the research shows that having a strong tie to grandparents, people really are less likely to have symptoms of depression and anxiety. They have a greater sense of belonging and connectedness. These kinds of ties are a buffer against stress and adversity. It's a different kind of love than you get from parents.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Also, she hasn't said anything about the father in law. So I don't know if her spouse is around, if he's still alive. They're together. And so if she lives alone, she might get great joy from putting so much energy into her grandkids and let her. It's good for her and it's good for them.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Okay, Lori, here's a question for you as therapist. The very first line of Tonya's question is, I have a question regarding an enabling mother in law. And I'm just curious because to me, I would describe this as being overindulgent. What exactly would you mean in the technical sense of being enabling? Is this enabling?

[Lori Gottlieb]

It's not how we would normally use enabling. Enabling generally is used to mean that you're supporting or colluding in another person's destructive behavior. So an example might be, let's say somebody isn't really looking for a job and you keep giving them money so they can keep avoiding the job search.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Ah.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Or you're making excuses for why your partner couldn't come to the kid's baseball game when they were out drinking too much and are hungover again. So the grandmother isn't enabling the grandkids cause she's not trying to cover for a destructive behavior. Right. So the kids might be more apt to ask things of her, but they seem to know how to behave at home and in other settings. I'm not hearing from Tanya that the kids don't know how to behave at home. So I don't see any enabling going on here. I do see overindulgence, but I don't necessarily think that overindulgence is dangerous.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So enabling would be like a kid keeps breaking school equipment and instead of having negative consequences, the grandmother would keep buying the school equipment. So nobody knew that it was getting broken.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Right. Well, she mentioned the toy. When the toys are broken at the grandma's house, grandma gets the kid another toy. But at home they don't get another toy.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Right.

[Lori Gottlieb]

So they understand this is not normal behavior. This is just something that grandma does. That's grandma. But that's not how the world works. And it doesn't sound like the kids are going around saying every time I break something, someone's going to replace it for me.

[Gretchen Rubin]

So what's our advice? The first piece of advice is kids understand your house, your rules, and they understand those are not the rules for everyone. This is grandma's rules.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Right. And I think as long as the kids have structure and rules at home, they'll learn how to deal with not getting what they want all the time and dealing with disappointment when the answer is no. And by the way, kids feel safe with structure and limits and consequences. You guys aren't the bad guys. They crave this sense of containment. So if they didn't have that at home, that would not be good for them. So between the two households, they're kind of getting the best of both worlds. They get the safety that they feel in terms of love from grandma, but they're getting the safety of containment and a different kind of love at home.

[Gretchen Rubin]

I have a great example of that. When my kids were little, a friend of mine was saying her son was doing something that he shouldn't. And so she said, if you do it again, you're gonna get a timeout. So then he did it again, but she was tired and distracted, so she didn't do anything about it. And he said, but mom, you promised me a timeout.

[Lori Gottlieb]

That's exactly it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Slip of a tongue, right?

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yeah. And they don't feel safe without the consequence. They might not like it, but they also don't feel safe without it.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yeah. And I think have a conversation with your mother in law about the aspects of this that affect you directly. You don't want to hear her pleading the kids case you would like to claim certain activities for yourself and your family. You are not going to let your kids figure out a way to skip out on family chores. These are things that affect you. But for the things that she loves doing and she wants to do, even if you think they're excessive, why intervene if she wants to?

[Lori Gottlieb]

And I just think it's important to remember also what we said about this is going to end in the blink of an eye. The kids won't always want to spend this much time with their grandma. Their peer group is going to become much more important. Their lives are going to get much busier. And so these will be memories that you want them to have.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes, absolutely. Well, Tanya, that was a fascinating question. I cannot wait to hear what other listeners say in response. And coming up, we have many listener responses to a different discussion, the discussion of the post Wedding Blues. It turns out that this phenomenon is not limited to weddings. We heard from a lot of listeners who had experienced their own version of this. But first, this break.

[Lori Gottlieb]

This episode is sponsored by Career Fingerprint. When it comes time for a performance review or interview, most people forget half of what they have accomplished. You know you have done great work, but but when you're in the moment, it can be hard to recall the details.

[Gretchen Rubin]

That is exactly the problem Career Fingerprint solves. Once a week, it gives you a simple prompt to record your achievements in your own words. It organizes everything for you so you always have a record of your wins.

[Lori Gottlieb]

When those important meetings come up, you can use your notes to create a cheat sheet, review your accomplishments, and even reference past meetings, job descriptions or agendas all on the same.

[Gretchen Rubin]

It means no more scrambling before interviews or reviews. Career Fingerprint keeps track of your story so you can tell it when it matters most. It is not AI or social media, just a simple way to build confidence in your career.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Confidence is a habit. Get started [e-mail].

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, hi everybody. It's Julia Louis Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast. And I'm not going to talk about food waste this time. I'm going to talk about food resources. All that uneaten food rotting in the landfill. It could be enriching our soil or feeding our chickens because it's still food. And the easiest and frankly, way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is is with the mill food recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can. But it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true. I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone. Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and raps and eyes about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep things filling it for weeks. But the clincher is that you can depend on it for years. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand in North America and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with Mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mil.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[Gretchen Rubin]

There is one thing that every person on earth has in common. We all move through the world in a human body.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Bodies ache, they bleed, they desire, they hold the stories of our lives.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And when people have power over their bodies, when they can access the care their bodies need, they can begin to write their own stories.

[Lori Gottlieb]

International Planned Parenthood Federation or ippf is the world's largest network for sexual and reproductive health rights and justice. They are sharing real stories of people around the world.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Like Alina in Malawi who walked miles to the nearest clinic to give birth only to deliver her baby along the way.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Every body holds a story.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Read just a few of them [e-mail] therapy everybody.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And we're back. In episode five, a listener asked for advice about dealing with post wedding depression. And we heard from so many of you who experienced your own variation of this, but in very different circumstances. Not relating to a wedding, just the circumstance of being surprised by feeling kind of blue and very let down after a big event that was supposed to supposed to be positive or a big accomplishment that you were really excited about.

[Gretchen Rubin]

First came from AJ I had a similar feeling. After training for and running a marathon. You train for months and months, spend hours pounding pavement, then line up at the starting line with Thousands of others. 26.2 miles is grueling, but you take on the challenge. Then after the crowds die down and you are home with your mettle, recovering and probably barely able to walk, there is nothing. You achieved a major goal. But it's the what happens next syndrome. I felt like I lost my will because I had devoted so much of my time and energy to training and then in a blink, it was over. Very similar.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I think that what happens next syndrome is very common.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Exactly.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And Lindsay said, I especially remember what my mom called the holiday blues after Christmas and reality starting to set back in. Even if those high expectations were met, the return to business as usual can be rocky. Yeah.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Sarah says it goes back to birthday parties as a kid in my family growing up, it was called the morning after the night before.

[Lori Gottlieb]

I love that.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Love that.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And Kate said theater kids are familiar with this. I expected it after my wedding because I was familiar with the post show hangover. I've always experienced it after the holidays and most recently after sending my oldest off to college. And that had layers. But it was also the end of a year plus of applying and visiting and planning and packing. I know to anticipate it now and try to plan something new for that post time. Ooh, that's a good strategy.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, I think it's really helpful to realize that this is common and it's shared by many people. And I do think it can be useful to be prepared in advance to think I might not feel great after I run the marathon. I might feel really let down. So that you're not surprised. I remember this when my husband, Jamie and I, we bought our first apartment together, and it was so exciting and overwhelming, and somebody said to me, you're gonna feel terrible. You're gonna feel like you're making the biggest mistake of your life. You're gonna be signing things and you're gonna say, how in the world are we doing this? And it's awful, and it will last a couple days, and then you'll be really glad you did it. And I was so grateful that my friend warned me that because I did not at all anticipate that I would feel terrible and that I was making a huge mistake. And that is exactly how I felt. But I was just like, oh, this is very common. It really was comforting to me.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And I think it's about. There's so much that goes into getting to that place.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Yes.

[Lori Gottlieb]

And you have so much anticipation of what it's gonna be like. And because it's positive, you think, not only is it gonna be positive when it happens, but the positivity is going to last. You have to know that even if the experience is a positive experience, you might experience this. And as some of our listeners said, be prepared.

[Gretchen Rubin]

Well, thank you, everybody, for weighing in. This turned out to be a very, very rich subject. So thanks.

[Lori Gottlieb]

Yes. We love hearing from you. And before we go, are you ready to give us more advice? As you know, we always welcome a mix of questions, big and small. And here's the question that we'll ponder in the next episode that we'd love to hear your thoughts on. This listener wants to remain anonymous, and she asks, how do you tell one of your closest friends that their Botox and fillers are getting out of hand? That they don't look prettier and younger, they just look freakier? Or do you just shut up and let them be? Well, that is a very delicate situation. What do you all think we want to hear? What would you do? Please tell [e-mail] we'd love to include your thoughts in our next episode.

[Gretchen Rubin]

And that is it for today. As a reminder, we are a new show, so rating, reviewing and best of all, word of mouth all really help other people people to discover the show. We would so appreciate it.

[Lori Gottlieb]

So many people have been discovering the show because all of you have been telling your friends about it. So we really appreciate it. Please keep doing that. And remember, whether this podcast changes your life or just makes you laugh, we're glad you're here.

[Listener Tanya]

Since you asked is for entertainment purposes only and isn't a substitute for professional advice, by sending us your question, you're agreeing we may use it on the show and edit it for length or clarity.