Sinica Podcast Summary: Historian Rana Mitter on Ideology in China’s "New Era"

Host: Kaiser Kuo
Guest: Rana Mitter (St. Lee Chair in US Asian Relations at Harvard Kennedy School; historian; author)
Recorded: Live at Salzburg Global Seminar
Air Date: March 14, 2024

Main Theme & Purpose

This live episode explores China’s contemporary ideology in what the leadership calls a "New Era," focusing on the interplay of historical narratives, Marxism, Confucianism, and the question of whether China is a revisionist power in today’s global order. Historiographical debates, Party legitimacy, and intellectual trends are dissected to show how China defines its ideological trajectory, its place in world order, and its future intellectual questions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is China a Revisionist Power? (03:01–10:00)

• Multiplicity of "Orders": Rana begins by referencing Alastair Iain Johnston’s scholarship, emphasizing the pluralism of "orders" rather than a monolithic "world order"—China’s intentions differ across arenas like the UN, WTO, and cyberspace.
  • “Asking the question of, is China a revisionist power? …is not actually subtle enough a question.” – Rana Mitter [03:59]
• Selective Revisionism: Kaiser invokes the idea of China as a "selectively, opportunistically revisionist power"—China may contest some aspects of global order while benefiting from or defending others.
• Metaphors for Order:
  • Sports: Western sports metaphors ("They’re playing a different game") are common but limited.
  • Twister Game: Rana prefers "Twister" as metaphor, encapsulating entanglement and fragility—“If you twist too far, you may bring the entire thing down…people can get hurt.” – Rana Mitter [09:00]
• Consensus: Both agree China is not a wholesale apple-cart-upturning revisionist—it’s selective, pragmatic, with limitations to its ambitions.

2. Teleology, Marxism, and Chinese Historical Narrative (10:12–19:25)

• Teleological Thinking: Kaiser notes that, while the West often uncritically adopts teleological ("Whiggish") historical narratives, China’s ruling party is unapologetically teleological in the Marxist tradition.
• From Class to Contradiction:
  • Jiang Zemin Era: The "three represents" marked a move away from strict class-based analysis; the CCP redefined its role.
  • Contradiction (Mao Dun): Contradiction and its resolution remain central to Party ideology, now untethered to class.
  • “Some sense of teleology, some sense of forward progression in some definition, has been a constant part of the Communist project…” – Rana Mitter [13:49]

3. The "New Era": Origins & Party History Resolutions (17:11–29:04)

• "New Era" Terminology:
  • Began appearing after 19th Party Congress (2017), signaling a shifting global context and China’s changing view of its own historical trajectory.
  • “This particular phrase about events and changes…not seen in 100 years…starts to emerge exactly right in around 2017…” – Rana Mitter [17:52]
• Party History Resolutions:
  • 1945: Legitimates Mao, sanctifies Revolution.
  • 1981: After the Cultural Revolution, offers contrition, acknowledges errors, sets path forward (but avoids explicit "70/30" Mao assessment).
  • 2021: Marks CCP’s centennial, cements Xi Jinping’s place as transformational leader, introduces explicit synthesis of Marxist and pre-modern (Confucian) values; emphasizes contradiction and syncretism.

4. Synthesis of Marxism and Confucianism (29:04–43:47)

• Pop Cultural Reference: Recent Chinese TV show ("When Marx Met Confucius") illustrates Party’s attempts at ideological reconciliation, though often clumsily.
• "Recombination" (二次结合 / Die Arga Tiehe): Party seeks to meld "Western" revolutionary socialism with "Chinese" Confucian tradition.
• C-G-A-T Framework: Mitter’s own shorthand for contemporary China’s ideological DNA: Consumerism, Globalization, Authoritarianism, Technology. [32:29–33:37]
• Limits and Syncretism:
  • Confucianism’s social hierarchy/ethical obligations vs. Marxist egalitarianism/revolutionary change.
  • Mao’s rejection of Confucius; modern CCP reintegrating Confucian values.
  • Party claims to effect social change, but avoids revolutionary violence.
  • “How you mix those two things becomes a very difficult question…” – Rana Mitter [39:28]

5. Joseph Levenson and the Problem of Modernity (40:17–49:47)

• History and Value: Levenson’s framework—modern China’s challenge: reconciling its inherited tradition ("what is mine") with objective truth/modernity ("what is true").
• Has China "Arrived"?: The 2021 resolution suggests the Party now claims China has achieved wealth and power, and has reconciled tradition with modernity.
• Wang Hui’s Alternative: Contemporary intellectuals like Wang Hui challenge the notion of incompatibility between "empire" and "nation-state"—China can inhabit both roles.

6. The Next Big Ideological Question (51:31–55:38)

• The "Civilization State" in a Nation-State World?: Kaiser suggests a core ongoing tension is how China’s civilizational identity fits into, or disrupts, the global nation-state system.
• Bai Tongdong’s "Against Political Equality": Mitter cites Bai’s provocative book questioning whether democracy is always necessary for liberal values; points to a world where liberal values can be endangered in both democracies and autocracies.
  • “The preservation of the liberal space in its own right, that is something much more under threat than the procedure of voting and democracy.” – Rana Mitter [55:21]

7. The "Gravitational Force" of History (56:12–62:59)

• History’s Double-Edged Force: Kaiser asks how history shapes China—even as many individuals seem to transcend it, macro-level expectations are profoundly shaped by an eventful and discontinuous present.
• Comparative Biographies: Mitter contrasts "event horizon" of change in China with gradualist, democratic histories elsewhere; the unpredictability of Chinese life over the past 70+ years shapes a unique sociological psychology.
  • “I think it changes in some ways sociological horizons…” – Rana Mitter [61:26]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On multiplicity of orders:
  “Orders rather than order, I think, is the way that I’d answer your question.”
  – Rana Mitter [05:06]

• On Twister as metaphor:
  “There is an arrangement and a delicacy about this particular game that as long as it’s working fine, works fine. But you, you know, and I know that the danger of any game of Twister is that at the end, if you twist too far, you may bring the entire thing come down and let’s just say people can get hurt if things go, go, go wrong.”
  – Rana Mitter [09:00]

• On the party’s teleological mindset:
  “Some sense of teleology, some sense of forward progression... has been a constant part of the Communist project...”
  – Rana Mitter [13:49]

• On modern Chinese ideology’s syncretic project:
  “How you mix those two things becomes a very difficult question for Mao, in a sense, the answer was simpler. He was someone who actually revered revolutionary violence in his own right.”
  – Rana Mitter [39:28]

• On the unresolved question of liberal values:
  “The preservation of the liberal space in its own right, that is something that’s much more under threat than the procedure of voting and democracy.”
  – Rana Mitter [55:21]

Important Segment Timestamps

• Introduction, guest bio – [00:53–02:11]
• Is China revisionist? Orders vs. order – [03:01–10:00]
• Sports/Twister metaphors – [06:46–09:36]
• Teleology, Marxism, and history – [11:26–17:11]
• "New Era" language and 2021 Resolution – [17:11–29:04]
• Confucian-Marxist synthesis & C-G-A-T – [29:04–33:49]
• Confucianism vs. Marxism – [36:01–40:17]
• Levenson, tradition vs. modernity – [40:17–49:47]
• Civilization state & next big question – [51:31–55:38]
• Gravitational force of history – [56:12–62:59]
• Comparative Chinese biographies & eventfulness – [59:00–62:59]
• Book recommendations & close – [64:46–66:42]

Additional Noteworthy Moments

• Upcoming podcast plug: Rana mentions "Face Off" (2 April 2024) with Jane Perlez, exploring US-China relations and ideology [33:37–34:44].
• Meta-commentary on intellectual reading: Kaiser jokes about struggling with Wang Hui’s dense scholarship [29:23–29:33].

Tone and Language

The conversation is academically sharp, frequently humorous, and littered with inside references from the China studies field, as well as self-deprecating banter and playful metaphorical flights (sports, Twister, DNA). Kaiser’s incisive but informal style brings out Rana’s wit and depth of analysis.

Conclusion

This episode offers a sweeping, nuanced survey of how China’s leadership, and its intellectual class, frame ideology in the "New Era"—balancing selective revisionism, syncretic tradition, and unyielding teleology while grappling with ongoing contradictions at home and abroad. In crafting its own story, the CCP blends Marxism, Confucianism, and pragmatic experiment, shaping not only its present, but also the questions it will need to confront next.

Book Recommendations ([64:46–66:45])

• Rana Mitter: Boy Parts by Eliza Clark – witty, sharp, and “pungent” British fiction.
• Kaiser Kuo: Streams of Gold, Rivers of Blood by Anthony Kaldelis – detailed history of the Byzantine resurgence in the 10th century.

End of Summary