Podcast Summary: #SistersInLaw – Episode 213: Pardon Me

Release Date: December 7, 2024
Hosts: Joyce Vance, Barb McQuaid, Kimberly Atkins Stohr
Guest: Jill Wine-Banks (absent this episode)

1. Introduction

In this episode of #SistersInLaw, hosts Joyce Vance, Barb McQuaid, and Kimberly Atkins Stohr delve into pressing political and legal issues. Despite the absence of Jill Wine-Banks, the trio engages in a robust discussion covering President Joe Biden's recent pardon of his son Hunter Biden, the Department of Justice's investigation into the Memphis Police Department, and a pivotal Supreme Court case challenging Tennessee's ban on gender-affirming care for transgender youths.

2. President Biden’s Pardon of Hunter Biden

Overview: The episode opens with a deep dive into President Joe Biden's controversial pardon of his son, Hunter Biden. The hosts analyze the legal and ethical implications of this move, addressing whether the pardon was appropriate and its potential impact on the rule of law.

Key Discussions:

• Legality and Appropriateness:

  • Barb McQuaid ([09:45]) articulates her stance, stating, "I do not think Hunter Biden would have been charged with these crimes if his name was John Smith." She emphasizes that the charges against Hunter were unusual and likely influenced by his high-profile status.

  • Kimberly Atkins Stohr ([12:04]) shares her professional perspective as a former prosecutor: "In my 20 years as a prosecutor, I recall using that charge exactly one time, and it was against someone we believe was very dangerous."

• Selective Prosecution Concerns:

  • Barb McQuaid ([15:09]) argues that Hunter Biden's prosecution was not solely based on his actions but was influenced by political motivations. She highlights the lack of similar prosecutions for others, suggesting a bias rooted in his family’s political standing.

• Presidential Clemency Power:

  • Joyce Vance ([16:38]) reflects on the broad scope of the pardon, expressing concern that while Hunter Biden is now absolved, it muddles the principle that laws should apply equally to all citizens: "I just don't know that the President took enough time to explain clearly to the American people his reasoning for it."

  • Barb McQuaid ([19:49]) clarifies that President Biden was within his constitutional rights to issue the pardon: "The Constitution expressly gives him the ability to pardon people. Whether or not we think it was a good exercise of that power, he was well within his power."

Notable Quotes:

• Barb McQuaid ([16:11]): "I think where I sort of settled is that Hunter Biden is now taken care of. What I would love to see from the President is him using his clemency power for good in other ways."
• Joyce Vance ([22:51]): "I totally agree, which is why I wish he explained it more. I think explanation would have gone so much farther."

3. DOJ’s Investigation into the Memphis Police Department

Overview: The hosts discuss the Department of Justice's recent report uncovering systemic issues within the Memphis Police Department. This follows the tragic death of Tyre Nichols during a traffic stop, highlighting broader concerns about excessive force and racial discrimination in law enforcement.

Key Discussions:

• Tyre Nichols Case Recap:

  • Kimberly Atkins Stohr ([36:00]) provides a summary: "Tyre Nichols was stopped in a traffic stop, and the situation escalated unnecessarily with excessive force, leading to his death three days later."

• DOJ Findings:

  • The DOJ report reveals that the Memphis Police Department employed excessive force at a disproportionately high rate against Black individuals, beyond the Nichols case.

• Scorpion Unit’s Role:

  • Barb McQuaid ([37:25]) criticizes specialized task forces like the Scorpion Unit, comparing them to historical units that fostered an "us versus them" mentality: "We're just about trying to beat up the bad guys, and it's such a bad incentive."

• Consent Decrees and Enforcement:

  • Barb McQuaid ([39:23]) expresses concern over potential changes in DOJ's enforcement of consent decrees under new administration leadership, warning that reductions could leave discriminatory practices unchecked.

  • Joyce Vance ([43:49]) clarifies the role of consent decrees as reformative rather than punitive measures, emphasizing their importance in addressing systemic discrimination.

Notable Quotes:

• Barb McQuaid ([43:16]): "This is the exact same thing [as miscegenation laws]. It was meant to protect the people who are not trans kids so that they feel better about themselves."
• Joyce Vance ([44:24]): "It's a reminder to everybody, hey, we're here. And we may not have the resources to do this in every police department across the country, but you'd best watch yourself."

4. Supreme Court Case: Tennessee’s Ban on Gender-Affirming Care for Trans Youths

Overview: The episode covers the Supreme Court's recent oral arguments in a case challenging Tennessee's law banning gender-affirming medical treatments and surgeries for transgender minors, even with parental consent.

Key Discussions:

• Case Details:

  • Joyce Vance ([53:25]) explains that the lawsuit targets the prohibition of hormone treatments, puberty blockers, and gender reassignment surgeries for minors, arguing it violates the Equal Protection Clause by discriminating based on sex.

• Legal Nuances:

  • The challengers differentiate between medical treatments accessible to cisgender youths and those restricted for transgender individuals, asserting that denying such care to trans youths constitutes unconstitutional discrimination.

• Supreme Court Dynamics:

  • Joyce Vance ([56:16]) predicts the Court will uphold the Tennessee law, anticipating a decision along the lines of "6 to 3" or "5 to 4," with justices like Amy Coney Barrett likely siding against the challengers.

  • Barb McQuaid ([61:03]) emphasizes the importance of equal protection, relating the case to historical precedents like Loving v. Virginia, which struck down laws banning interracial marriage.

Notable Quotes:

• Joyce Vance ([61:03]): "She very poignantly pointed out that there is not a lot of difference between this and the miscegenation laws that were in place before Loving v. Virginia."
• Barb McQuaid ([61:23]): "We are having this conversation because Donald Trump has made it clear that he intends to pervert the criminal justice system and use it as a tool against his political enemies."

5. Audience Questions

a. Can Biden Pardon the Undocumented to Protect Them from Deportation?

• Kimberly Atkins Stohr ([70:55]) responds: "No, because the pardon power is about pardoning somebody for a crime against the United States. When it comes to deportation, those are typically handled as administrative matters."

b. Does the President Have the Ability to Overturn or Pardon a Civil Action from the Federal Court?

• Barb McQuaid ([71:16]) clarifies: "The Constitution gives the president the right to grant pardons in criminal cases. It does not apply to civil cases."

c. Do Revenue Bills Originate in the House Include Tariffs?

• Kimberly Atkins Stohr ([72:15]) explains: "Yes, revenue bills include tariffs. However, existing laws have delegated authority to the executive branch through the Treasury Department to levy tariffs without necessitating new action by Congress."

6. Conclusion

The episode concludes with the hosts reiterating the importance of understanding the breadth and limits of presidential powers, the need for accountability in law enforcement, and the ongoing battles within the Supreme Court that shape the landscape of civil rights in the United States.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Barb McQuaid ([09:45]): "I do not think Hunter Biden would have been charged with these crimes if his name was John Smith."

• Kimberly Atkins Stohr ([12:04]): "In my 20 years as a prosecutor, I recall using that charge exactly one time, and it was against someone we believe was very dangerous."

• Barb McQuaid ([15:09]): "Selective prosecution means I treated you differently from other people who are similarly situated."

• Joyce Vance ([16:38]): "This makes it harder for me and us to sit here and talk about how important the rule of law is."

• Barb McQuaid ([19:49]): "Whether or not we think it was a good exercise of that power, he was well within his power."

• Barb McQuaid ([37:25]): "Instead of being part of the community to protect public safety, it's all about, you know, we're gonna beat up the bad guys."

• Kimberly Atkins Stohr ([36:00]): "Tyre Nichols was stopped in a traffic stop, and the situation escalated unnecessarily with excessive force, leading to his death three days later."

• Joyce Vance ([56:16]): "Neil Gorsuch did not say a single word during the entire argument... that isn't where his head is at."

• Joyce Vance ([61:03]): "She very poignantly pointed out that there is not a lot of difference between this and the miscegenation laws that were in place before Loving v. Virginia."

• Barb McQuaid ([72:15]): "If your question is really, can Trump put these tariffs on Mexico and China and Canada without a new action by Congress, the answer is yes."

Note: This summary captures the core discussions and insights from Episode 213: "Pardon Me" of #SistersInLaw, highlighting the legal and political analyses provided by the hosts. For a comprehensive understanding, listeners are encouraged to tune into the full episode available on Apple Podcasts or other platforms.