#SistersInLaw - Episode 226: The Best Kind Of Nerd
Host/Authors: Joyce Vance, Jill Wine-Banks, Kimberly Atkins Stohr
Release Date: March 8, 2025

Introduction & Personal Stories (00:13 - 04:43)

The episode opens with Jill Wine-Banks welcoming listeners back to #SistersInLaw, noting the absence of Barb McQuade for the week. The hosts share personal anecdotes about their puppies, creating a warm and relatable atmosphere before delving into the week’s heavy political and legal discussions.

Jill Wine-Banks (00:13):

"We keep selling out of our resistance T-shirts. You get that it's resis, as in Sisters in Law tents, resistance T-shirts."

Joyce Vance (01:42):

"She's so cute. Her name is Elsa. She's nine weeks old. And y'all, she's the alpha dog, man."

Kimberly Atkins Stohr (02:35):

"Like I was like, learn how to play, kid."

Laughter and camaraderie set the stage, with each host sharing stories about their pets, highlighting the challenges and joys of puppyhood.

Court Decisions and Implications (07:26 - 18:15)

The discussion shifts to significant legal developments, focusing on recent Supreme Court rulings and their impact on government funding and presidential authority.

Supreme Court Ruling on USAID Funding:

• Joyce Vance (07:26):
  The Supreme Court ruled 5-4 against the Trump administration regarding the continuation of USAID funding during ongoing litigation. This decision temporarily allows the release of approximately $2 billion in USA funding, pending further directives from lower courts.

Kimberly Atkins Stohr (07:55):

"Justice Samuel Alito... tore apart [the district court judge] for having, quote, unquote, hubris."

Impact on Democracy and Rule of Law:

• Joyce Vance (12:10):
  Expresses deep concern about the potential for a president to defy court orders, emphasizing the importance of upholding the rule of law to prevent democratic erosion.

"There are a lot of people doing that. Some Republican senators have done that... we will have to make a stand for democracy."

Attorney General Pam Bondi’s DOJ Purge (31:08 - 44:45)

A critical segment examines Attorney General Pam Bondi’s attempts to purge the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the FBI of officials perceived as disloyal to Donald Trump.

Pam Bondi’s Statements:

• Kimberly Atkins Stohr (32:07): Highlights Bondi's assertion of eliminating DOJ and FBI employees who "despise Donald Trump."

"Pam Bondi said that there would be no revenge lists at the Justice Department. She was lying."

Impact on DOJ Employees:

• Joyce Vance (32:07): Describes recent firings within the DOJ, including career professionals involved in high-profile cases like the Eric Adams investigation.

"We got rid of Jack Smith gone... two more employees in the Southern District of New York have been put on leave."

Legal and Ethical Concerns:

• Kimberly Atkins Stohr (40:42): Criticizes Bondi’s letter to Georgetown Law, which demanded the removal of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) programs as a condition for hiring, labeling it as unconstitutional.

“She specifically named the lawyer who has been representing him. So it's a really terrible thing with significant consequences for the legal profession.”

Responses and Counteractions:

• Jill Wine-Banks (54:40): Applauds the American Bar Association (ABA) for defending law firms like Covington & Burling against retaliatory government actions.

"The ABA is defending them... Lawyers must be free to represent clients and perform their ethical duty without fear of retribution."

Executive Orders Targeting Law Firms (53:08 - 60:05)

The hosts delve into recent executive orders aiming to punish law firms representing Trump’s perceived opponents.

Targeted Law Firms:

• Kimberly Atkins Stohr (55:28): Discusses Executive Order targeting firms like Perkins Coie, accusing them of election interference and discriminatory hiring practices.

"This is extraordinary... a presidential executive action... it's a really prominent firm in D.C."

Legal Community’s Reaction:

• Joyce Vance (58:06):
  Emphasizes the unconstitutional nature of these orders and calls for collective action from law firms to resist governmental overreach.

"Citizens, you could be the next one who doesn't get a lawyer of your choice because the law firm you want can't represent you because they did something that Donald Trump doesn't like."

Public and Institutional Backlash:

• Jill Wine-Banks (53:08):
  Notes the ABA’s strong condemnation of these actions, highlighting the jeopardy they place on the legal profession and access to justice.

"These government actions deny citizens access to justice and betray our fundamental values."

Listener Questions and Legal Insights (67:45 - 73:49)

In the latter part of the episode, the hosts address questions from listeners, providing insightful legal explanations and fostering engagement with their audience.

Question on Judicial Practice Across Jurisdictions:

• James (68:37): "Does a judge in a jurisdiction ever practice as an attorney in another jurisdiction?"

• Joyce Vance (68:37): Explains that federal judges rarely practice law in other jurisdictions to avoid conflicts of interest, though some municipal judges might.

Question on Presidential Immunity:

• Vicki (70:22): "How is presidential immunity consistent with a democratic form of government? Is it possible for Congress to pass legislation that overturns this ruling or clearly specifies what actions are not subject to that immunity?"

• Kimberly Atkins Stohr (70:25): Clarifies that presidential immunity, as ruled by the Supreme Court, is limited and cannot be altered by Congress without a constitutional amendment.

"The power of the presidency, including the limits of his immunity, is established by the Constitution."

Engagement with Symbolism:

• Suzanne’s Question (73:07): "What do you think of wearing my American flag pin upside down?"

• Jill Wine-Banks (71:16): Advocates for using the upside-down flag as a distress signal reflecting the current state of democracy.

"Wearing a flag upside down or hanging, you know, flying a flag upside down is a sign of distress and I'm distressed. I think democracy is distressed, girl."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts (75:07 - End)

The episode wraps up with light-hearted banter among the hosts, maintaining the balance between serious legal discussions and personal interactions. They encourage listeners to engage with the podcast through questions and to support sponsors that make the show possible.

Notable Quotes

1. Joyce Vance (07:26):

   "At least for now, the Supreme Court said yes, that could change pretty quickly."

2. Kimberly Atkins Stohr (07:55):

   "He just didn't want to continue the fight... he was being true to the rule of law."

3. Joyce Vance (12:10):

   "We are, in essence, a three branches system of government, because that means that no one branch of government can become too powerful."

4. Kimberly Atkins Stohr (55:28):

   "This is extraordinary... a presidential executive action... it's a really prominent firm in D.C."

5. Jill Wine-Banks (54:40):

   "The ABA is defending them... Lawyers must be free to represent clients and perform their ethical duty without fear of retribution."

6. Kimberly Atkins Stohr (73:23):

   "It's a clear sign of dictatorship, of the worst thing that could happen to a democracy is this complete takeover."

7. Jill Wine-Banks (71:16):

   "That's exactly right. What we need is this kind of pushback."

Key Takeaways

• Supreme Court Rulings: Recent decisions have significant implications for government funding and the balance of power between branches.

• DOJ and FBI Purge: Attorney General Pam Bondi's actions raise concerns about loyalty-based purges threatening the integrity of the DOJ and FBI.

• Executive Orders Against Law Firms: Targeted orders against prominent law firms could undermine the legal profession and access to justice, prompting strong backlash from the ABA.

• Presidential Immunity: Clarification that presidential immunity is limited and protected by constitutional safeguards, not easily overridden by Congress.

• Listener Engagement: The hosts foster a community by addressing listener questions, blending legal expertise with relatable discussions.

Final Thoughts

#SistersInLaw Episode 226 offers a comprehensive exploration of pressing legal and political issues, juxtaposed with personal stories that humanize the hosts. Through insightful discussions, notable quotes, and thoughtful analysis, Joyce Vance, Jill Wine-Banks, and Kimberly Atkins Stohr provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the challenges facing modern democracy and the legal system.

For those seeking an engaging and informative deep dive into the intersection of law, politics, and culture, this episode serves as an essential listen.

Note: Timestamps are approximate and correspond to segments within the provided transcript.