#SistersInLaw Podcast Episode 228: "Mr. Bright Shiny Thing"

Release Date: March 22, 2025
Hosts: Joyce Vance, Jill Wine-Banks, Barb McQuade
Guest: Kimberly Atkins Stohr (Absent this episode)

Introduction and Spring Travels

[00:43]
Joyce Vance kicks off the episode by welcoming listeners back to Sisters in Law, with Jill Wine-Banks and Barb McQuade joining her as Kimberly Atkins Stohr takes a week off. Joyce addresses the high demand for their Resistance T-shirts, directing listeners to Politicon's merchandise store.

The conversation then shifts to lighter topics amidst a serious week. Joyce asks her co-hosts about their favorite spring break trips, considering the challenges of coordinating family schedules during this season.

[02:11]
Barb McQuade shares her love for adventure and exotic travel, highlighting cherry blossoms in Washington and Japan as ideal spring destinations. She also mentions a fondness for Paris in spring, inspired by the city's portrayal during the Olympics. Barb emphasizes her preference for trips that involve wild animals, hiking, rafting, and other adventurous activities.

[03:04]
Joyce reflects on the beauty of cherry blossoms, noting her personal desire to visit Japan. She and Barb discuss their shared enthusiasm for active and engaging vacations.

[03:37]
Jill Wine-Banks explains her and her husband's preference for active trips, such as ski vacations, which accommodate varying skill levels within the family. She appreciates destinations that offer opportunities to see and learn new things, whether far away or through staycations.

[04:12]
Barb humorously recounts a past skiing experience where her lack of skill led to a near-disastrous descent of a black diamond run, highlighting the unpredictable nature of adventure travel.

Main Discussion: Alien Enemy Act and Trump's Deportations

[08:01]
The hosts transition to the week's pressing issue: President Donald Trump's application of the Alien Enemy Act to deport over 100 men alleged to be members of the Venezuelan gang, Tren de Aragua. This controversial move has sparked legal battles and widespread concern.

[08:13]
Jill Wine-Banks outlines the situation, detailing Trump's executive order and the subsequent lawsuit filed by five men who dispute their association with the gang. A federal judge issued a temporary restraining order (TRO) preventing further deportations until legal issues are clarified. Despite this order, three planes still managed to transport the men to El Salvador, where they were incarcerated in a high-security prison with troubling human rights reports.

[09:23]
Joyce Vance delves into the Alien Enemy Act of 1798, emphasizing its historical context. She asserts, "We are not at war, and we are certainly not, as one of the greatest world powers, at war with a gang from Venezuela" ([09:23]).

Joyce critiques the misuse of the Act, highlighting its original intent during wartime and its problematic history, including the internment of Japanese citizens during World War II. She expresses deep concern over the lack of due process and the pretextual use of tattoos to identify gang members, which she deems unreliable.

[12:33]
The discussion touches on the subjective interpretation of tattoos as gang identifiers. Jill Wine-Banks notes that some individuals claim their tattoos represent benign symbols, such as soccer team logos, questioning the validity of using such markers for deportation ([12:33]).

Barb McQuade adds context by describing the qualifications and background of Judge James Boasberg, who issued the TRO. She underscores his bipartisan appointments and expertise, arguing against the baseless characterizations by Trump and his allies ([13:04]).

[13:34]
Barb McQuade defends Judge Boasberg, highlighting his professional background and bipartisan support. She criticizes Trump's labeling of the judge as a "leftist" and emphasizes that impeachment should only be reserved for proven misconduct, not mere disagreement with judicial decisions ([13:34]).

[15:04]
Joyce emphasizes the premature stage of the legal battle, noting that the TRO is not a final decision but a temporary measure to allow legal arguments to proceed. She expresses frustration over the swift escalation of animosity towards the judiciary ([15:04]).

[16:15]
Jill introduces the concept of the "state secrets privilege," a legal doctrine protecting sensitive national security information from disclosure in civil cases. Joyce outlines its origins and application, questioning its relevance in the current deportation scenario where the government publicly showcases its actions ([16:15]).

The hosts express skepticism about the government's intent to claim state secrets, given the transparency of transporting men to El Salvador, which contradicts the notion of protecting sensitive information.

[19:26]
Barb criticizes the inhumane treatment of deported individuals, describing the transport footage as "pictures of cruelty" and highlighting the lack of transparency regarding the subjects' legal status and actual affiliations. She calls for judicial accountability and opposes the government's exploitative tactics ([19:26]).

Impeachment of Federal Judges

[27:44]
The conversation shifts to President Trump's and Elon Musk's efforts to impeach federal judges who rule against them. Barb McQuaid explains that the motivation behind these attempts is a dissatisfaction with legal outcomes grounded in law and fact, rather than baseless personal grievances ([28:30]).

Barb details how Musk is leveraging his influence and financial resources to support congressional members advocating for impeachment, highlighting the hypocrisy and lack of legitimate grounds for such actions ([28:30]).

[30:15]
Joyce questions the misuse of the impeachment process, stressing that judges should not be impeached merely for their rulings. She draws parallels to other democratic principles, emphasizing the importance of judicial independence ([30:15]).

Jill Wine-Banks elaborates on the gravity of impeaching judges based on disagreeable decisions, underscoring the role of judges in upholding constitutional law and protecting against majority tyranny. She criticizes the attempt to politicize the judiciary, calling it an attack on the foundational separation of powers ([32:09]).

[32:32]
Jill clarifies that the impeachment process is strictly the purview of Congress, not the President. She outlines the procedural steps: the House impeaches, and the Senate convicts, requiring a two-thirds majority for removal from office ([32:32]).

[33:03]
Barb McQuaid enumerates historical reasons for judicial impeachments, such as misconduct, drunkenness on the bench, bribery, and abuse of power. She asserts that no legitimate charges have been brought against Judge Boasberg, reinforcing the frivolous nature of current impeachment calls ([33:03]).

The hosts draw attention to the dangerous precedent set by politicizing judicial accountability, likening it to propaganda tactics used to manipulate public perception ([35:26]).

Erasure of History and DEI Program Elimination

[35:57]
Joyce shifts the discussion to the administration's efforts to erase military history related to black, Hispanic, and women service members. She lists significant historical contributions, such as Jackie Robinson, the Navajo code talkers, and Colin Powell, noting the removal of their profiles from official websites ([35:57]).

Barb McQuaid connects this erasure to broader anti-DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) initiatives, arguing that erasing historical contributions undermines the recognition of marginalized groups' roles and achievements in the military and beyond ([39:06]).

[44:43]
Jill Wine-Banks emphasizes the importance of preserving history to acknowledge and honor the struggles and achievements of underrepresented groups. She critiques the administration's labeling of DEI hires as unqualified, asserting that DEI initiatives aim to provide equal opportunities, not discriminate ([44:43]).

[46:12]
Joyce discusses affirmative action and DEI programs, explaining that these initiatives focus on inclusion and equity rather than preferential treatment. She highlights the legal protections against discrimination and the historical benefits of inclusive practices in education and the military ([46:12]).

Barb reinforces that DEI programs do not alter qualifications but rather ensure that all qualified individuals have equal opportunities. She warns against the consequences of dismantling these programs, such as increased discrimination and loss of valuable talent ([48:24]).

[49:38]
Joyce criticizes the administration's rhetoric on DEI, accusing it of "drumming up hatred" and undermining constitutional principles. She contends that the current legal challenges will center around maintaining inclusive practices against Trump's attempts to dismantle them ([49:38]).

Q&A Session

The hosts address listener questions, providing insights and advice based on their expertise.

1. Validity of Auto-Signed Pardons by President Biden
   [64:03]
   A listener questions the validity of pardons signed using an auto pen, following President Trump's claims that such pardons are invalid.

   Jill Wine-Banks debunks the notion, explaining that electronic signatures are legally recognized and that such claims by Trump are baseless attempts to create chaos around the pardons ([64:03]).

2. Age and Law School
   [69:11]
   A listener named Jay inquires about the appropriate age for attending law school, wondering if starting in their 30s or 40s is too late.

   Jill Wine-Banks encourages Jay, sharing her own experience of attending law school right after college but affirming that many of her students successfully begin their legal education in their 30s or 40s ([69:11]).

   Barb McQuaid supports this by sharing stories of individuals who embarked on law careers later in life, emphasizing that law school can be a rewarding and viable option at any age ([68:12]).

3. Status of the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA)
   [68:44]
   A listener named jj asks about the prospects of the ERA becoming a constitutional amendment under the current administration.

   Barb McQuaid responds pessimistically, highlighting the administration's actions towards women's rights and historical erasure as indications that the ERA's advancement is unlikely. She calls for President Trump to support the ERA despite the administration's contrary actions ([69:11]).

Closing Thoughts and Optimism

[70:22]
Joyce offers a cautiously optimistic conclusion, acknowledging the week's challenges but highlighting ongoing protests and public advocacy efforts aimed at countering the administration's actions. She encourages listeners to remain hopeful and continue supporting democratic principles ([70:22]).

Notable Quotes with Speaker Attribution and Timestamps

• Joyce Vance [09:23]:

  "We are not at war, and we are certainly not, as one of the greatest world powers, at war with a gang from Venezuela."

• Barb McQuaid [13:34]:

  "No judge should be picked on for their decision. Impeachment is for misconduct. It isn't for this kind of 'I don't like your opinion.' Appeal the opinion. Don't impeach the judge."

• Jill Wine-Banks [32:09]:

  "Judges are there to rein in abuses of a president. That's our system. We have free branches of government, and the courts are there to interpret the law."

• Barb McQuaid [28:30]:

  "There's no due process being involved here. And so we need to really stop Elon Musk and Donald Trump and all the others who are supporting impeachment."

• Jill Wine-Banks [46:12]:

  "DEI means recruiting people who have been underrepresented. It's about inclusion, equity, and providing equal opportunities."

Conclusion

In Episode 228 titled "Mr. Bright Shiny Thing," Sisters in Law delves into critical issues surrounding the misuse of the Alien Enemy Act, attempts to impeach federal judges based on political disagreements, and the administration's efforts to erase historical contributions of marginalized groups. The hosts provide insightful analysis, emphasizing the importance of judicial independence, the preservation of history, and the protection of inclusive practices. Through their candid discussions, Joyce Vance, Jill Wine-Banks, and Barb McQuade offer a compelling narrative on the current state of American politics, law, and culture, while encouraging listeners to remain informed and engaged.

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