Podcast Summary: #SistersInLaw Episode 230: Tariff Terror

Release Date: April 5, 2025
Host/Authors: Joyce Vance, Jill Wine-Banks, Barb McQuade, and Kimberly Atkins Stohr
Episode Title: Tariff Terror

1. Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Politicon's #SistersInLaw, hosts Joyce Vance, Jill Wine-Banks, and Kimberly Atkins Stohr delve into pressing political and legal issues. The primary topics include the recent surge in tariffs implemented by President Donald Trump, the potential invocation of the Insurrection Act amidst nationwide protests, and the implications of the 22nd Amendment concerning Trump's possible bid for a third presidential term.

2. Trump's Imposition of Tariffs: Legal Authority and Constitutional Implications

Joyce Vance opens the discussion by addressing the economic turmoil caused by Trump's recent tariff policies, emphasizing the widespread impact on American citizens' savings and investment funds.

Key Insights:

• Constitutional Authority:
  Jill Wine-Banks asserts that President Trump lacks the constitutional authority to unilaterally impose tariffs. Citing Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, she states, “Congress shall have the power to lay and collect Taxes, duties, imposts and excises” (10:57).

• Delegation of Power:
  The panel discusses the necessity for clear and specific delegation of power from Congress to the President to enforce such measures. Without explicit congressional approval, Trump's actions are deemed unconstitutional.

• Legal Challenges:
  The New Civil Liberties Alliance has filed a lawsuit challenging the tariffs, arguing that the President has not properly declared an emergency under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA), and that tariffs are not within the act's scope (12:58).

Notable Quote:

Jill Wine-Banks: "It's nothing. There is no power for him to do this." (10:57)

3. The Insurrection Act and Its Potential Invocation Amidst Protests

With rising protests across the country, the hosts explore the likelihood and implications of President Trump invoking the Insurrection Act to quell domestic unrest.

Key Insights:

• Definition and Scope:
  Joyce Vance explains that the Insurrection Act allows the President to deploy military forces within the United States to suppress rebellion or enforce the law under specific conditions (27:43).

• Historical Context:
  Kimberly Atkins Stohr provides a historical perspective, noting that the Posse Comitatus Act was originally enacted to prevent military intervention in enforcing Jim Crow laws (29:22). The Insurrection Act serves as a significant loophole within this framework.

• Modern Relevance and Risks:
  Jill Wine-Banks warns that the broad and vague language of the Insurrection Act could grant the President excessive discretion, potentially leading to abuse of power. The panel expresses concern over the lack of recent legislative updates to the act, making it ill-suited for contemporary political climates (32:43).

Notable Quote:

Kimberly Atkins Stohr: "It's an American ideal, that we should not turn the military against the American people unless there is a really crucial emergency reason of limited scope." (31:39)

4. The 22nd Amendment and Trump's Potential Third Term

The conversation shifts to constitutional law, specifically the 22nd Amendment, examining whether Trump could legally pursue a third term as President.

Key Insights:

• Constitutional Prohibition:
  Jill Wine-Banks outlines the 22nd Amendment's clear language prohibiting any person from being elected President more than twice, and from serving more than two years of another person's term (46:39).

• Potential Loopholes:
  Joyce Vance acknowledges the speculation around loopholes, such as Trump running for Vice President and subsequently ascending to the Presidency. However, she emphasizes that such maneuvers would violate the amendment's intent (49:14).

• Political Implications:
  Kimberly Atkins Stohr highlights the bipartisan efforts to reinforce constitutional boundaries, though she remains pessimistic about their success given the current political landscape (15:37).

Notable Quote:

Joyce Vance: "The loophole that you're sort of hinting at is that the word is no person shall be elected to the office." (46:39)

5. Listener Questions and Expert Responses

The episode concludes with a segment addressing listener-submitted questions, providing further insights into related political and legal matters.

a. Challenges to Citizens United

Question from Pat: “All the PAC money poured into elections lately by the super rich. Why isn't anybody challenging Citizens United?”

Kimberly Atkins Stohr's Response:

• Legal Barriers:
  Citizens United is entrenched in current Supreme Court precedent, making immediate challenges unlikely. Overturning it would require either a new constitutional amendment or a significant shift in the Court's composition (62:26).

b. Presidential Immunity and Military Intervention

Question from klar0888: “Being that the president is the commander in chief, is there any point at which the military can arrest him for giving an illegal order?”

Joyce Vance's Response:

• Impracticality of Military Intervention:
  Following Supreme Court decisions, military arrest of the President for illegal orders is not feasible. The President’s official acts are generally protected from criminal prosecution (64:07).

c. Hypothetical Annexation of Greenland and Canada

Question from Caroline: “If Trump gets his way, Greenland and Canada would join the U.S. what would be the implications of adding members of the House of Representatives and four new senators to the mix?”

Kimberly Atkins Stohr's Response:

• Practical Improbability:
  The annexation is highly unlikely and would face significant constitutional and political barriers. Even if attempted, the implications on representation would be complex and fraught with legal challenges (66:24).

Notable Quote:

Jill Wine-Banks: "The people have some power that's going to have to be exercised... we're going to see more of this unconstitutional, illegal use of power, clear abuse of power." (22:59)

6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The hosts reiterate the importance of understanding constitutional boundaries and the roles of various government branches in maintaining checks and balances. They emphasize the need for civic engagement and vigilance to prevent potential abuses of power.

Joyce Vance concludes with a call to action for listeners to stay informed and exercise their First Amendment rights to assemble and protest, underscoring the resilience of democratic principles despite current challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Jill Wine-Banks:
  "The blame lies squarely on one man, and that's the President, Donald Trump." (09:58)

• Kimberly Atkins Stohr:
  "The Supreme Court needs to step up here, too." (16:40)

• Joyce Vance:
  "We should continue to exercise those rights because that's what makes us Americans, fear or not." (39:43)

Timestamp References:

• 10:57: Jill discusses Article 1, Section 8.
• 12:58: Discussion on Loper Bright and lawsuit details.
• 27:43: Definition of the Insurrection Act.
• 29:22: History of the Posse Comitatus Act.
• 31:39: Kimberly explains the American ideal against military intervention.
• 32:43: Insurrection Act's broad language and lack of updates.
• 46:39: Explanation of the 22nd Amendment and potential loopholes.
• 49:14: Joyce discusses the Vice President loophole.
• 62:26: Kimberly on challenges to Citizens United.
• 64:07: Discussion on presidential immunity.
• 66:24: Kimberly on the improbability of annexing Greenland and Canada.
• 22:59: Jill on military abuse of power.
• 16:40: Kimberly urges the Supreme Court to act.
• 39:43: Joyce emphasizes exercising First Amendment rights.

Note: This summary intentionally omits advertisement segments and non-content discussions to focus solely on the episode's substantive political and legal analysis.