#SistersInLaw Episode 231: "Facilitate, Effectuate: Let's Call The Whole Thing Off"

Hosted by Politicon's Team: Joyce Vance, Barb McQuaid, and Kimberly Atkins Stohr

Release Date: April 12, 2025

In Episode 231 of Politicon's #SistersInLaw, hosts Joyce Vance, Barb McQuaid, and Kimberly Atkins Stohr delve deep into the intricacies of recent Supreme Court decisions impacting immigration policies, executive orders, and voting rights. The episode navigates through complex legal battles, highlighting the challenges to Donald Trump's administration and the broader implications for American governance and civil rights.

1. Wrongful Deportation Case: Kilmar Abrego Garcia

The episode opens with a discussion on a pivotal Supreme Court case involving the wrongful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland man mistakenly sent to a terrorist prison in El Salvador. Barb McQuaid introduces the case, emphasizing the government's admission of an administrative error that led to Garcia's wrongful deportation.

Notable Quote:

Barb McQuaid [09:00]: "Have you guys ever, like, forgotten something? Like, you know, you left your phone behind, you couldn't find your keys, you accidentally deported somebody?"

Joyce Vance provides a detailed background on Garcia, explaining his circumstances in El Salvador and the lack of credible evidence supporting the government's claim of his association with the MS-13 gang. She underscores the gravity of the situation, highlighting the absence of due process and the administration's failure to adhere to legal protocols.

Notable Quote:

Joyce Vance [12:00]: "The Trump government said that they were going to deport violent, bad people. Well, they are having trouble meeting their quotas and that's why they're picking students up off the street. That's why a father of three kids who has an order saying he can't be deported gets spirited away to a foreign prison. And it's appalling."

2. Supreme Court's Ruling on Garcia's Deportation

The hosts critique the Supreme Court's handling of Garcia's case, expressing disappointment over the court's ambiguous language. Kimberly Atkins Stohr explains how the Supreme Court limited the lower court's order by questioning the feasibility of effectuating Garcia's return, thereby offering the Trump administration an out.

Notable Quote:

Kimberly Atkins Stohr [14:07]: "...they instructed the lower court to use different language, which in my opinion, basically is the beginning of a wink, saying, okay, well, if the government just comes back and says that they can't, though, what do you want us to do?"

Barb McQuaid adds that the Supreme Court's ruling not only undermines the lower court's directive but also sets a concerning precedent for executive overreach.

3. Alien Enemy Act Case and Due Process

Transitioning to another significant case, the hosts discuss the Supreme Court's decision regarding the Alien Enemy Act. Barb McQuaid provides an overview of the case, where over 100 noncitizens from Venezuelan gangs were deported under this act, which is designed for wartime scenarios.

Joyce Vance highlights the Supreme Court's refusal to address the substantive issues of the Alien Enemy Act, focusing instead on procedural aspects. Kimberly Atkins Stohr elaborates on the concept of due process, explaining its foundational role in ensuring legal fairness.

Notable Quote:

Kimberly Atkins Stohr [24:17]: "Due process is essentially an opportunity to have the charges against you presented you to be able to engage in some sort of process, to plead guilty or not guilty, to make whatever assertions that you need."

Despite the apparent setback for plaintiffs, the hosts acknowledge that the court reaffirmed the importance of due process, albeit without delivering a decisive judgment on the Act itself.

4. Executive Orders and Their Limits

The conversation shifts to the broader implications of executive orders, questioning the extent of presidential power. Joyce Vance recounts historical uses of executive orders, notably those by President Obama, to circumvent congressional gridlock. She emphasizes the limitations of such orders, noting that they cannot override established laws or infringe upon the legislative domain.

Notable Quote:

Joyce Vance [36:40]: "Executive orders can only be used in very limited ways. They give the ability to order the executive branch, the administrative agencies that are part of his domain in government to do something or to not do something."

The hosts critically assess recent executive orders by Donald Trump, particularly those related to voting rights and tariffs, highlighting potential overextensions of presidential authority.

5. DOJ Battles and Press Freedom Victory

A significant victory is celebrated as Barb McQuaid discusses the Associated Press's successful legal challenge against the Trump administration's exclusion from the White House press pool. The temporary restraining order granted by Judge Trevor McFadden reinstates AP's access, reinforcing First Amendment protections.

Notable Quote:

Barb McQuaid [32:24]: "He [Judge McFadden] found substantial likelihood to succeed on the merits by the Associated Press under this First Amendment challenge."

The hosts applaud AP's resilience and its crucial role in safeguarding press freedom, noting the broader implications for media organizations facing governmental retaliation.

6. Executive Orders Targeting Former Trump Aides

The episode also sheds light on the Trump administration's retaliatory actions against former aides who criticized the president. Joyce Vance details how executive orders were used to strip security clearances and initiate investigations into loyalists like Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor.

Notable Quote:

Joyce Vance [41:37]: "Mr. President is now trying to get revenge upon these two guys because they did not show personal loyalty to him."

Barb McQuaid reinforces the severity of these actions, aligning them with authoritarian tactics rather than democratic principles.

7. Voting Rights Case in Georgia and Its Dismissal

The hosts revisit a critical voting rights lawsuit filed by the DOJ against Georgia, addressing maladaptive changes in the state's voting procedures purportedly aimed at suppressing African American voters. Barb McQuaid outlines the constitutional violations alleged by the DOJ.

However, Kimberly Atkins Stohr and Joyce Vance express concern over Attorney General Pamela Bondi's dismissal of the case, fearing it signals a weakening enforcement of the Voting Rights Act and potential future erosions of voter protections.

Notable Quote:

Kimberly Atkins Stohr [56:31]: "He's going to try to tee this issue up to the Supreme Court in a way that might make it really hard for them to resist."

The dismissal not only undermines the specific case but also sets a troubling precedent for the future of voting rights nationwide.

8. Impact on Voting Rights and Future Legal Implications

The discussion extends to the broader impact of these legal setbacks on voting rights and civil liberties. Barb McQuaid predicts that similar dismissals will occur across various sectors, including environmental protection and police reform, further eroding established protections.

Notable Quote:

Barb McQuaid [59:25]: "They can be very lengthy cases where courts are involved in consent judgments and other things. I think any of the police department consent judgments where there have been findings of patterns and practices of unconstitutional policing...got to be right at."

9. Listener Questions and Expert Answers

The episode concludes with an interactive segment where the hosts address listener inquiries:

1. Filing Complaints Against DOJ Lawyers
   Barb McQuaid confirms that complaints can be filed with the DOJ's Office of Professional Responsibility or state bars, ensuring accountability for unethical conduct.

   Notable Quote:

   Barb McQuaid [65:45]: "Absolutely. With regard to the U.S. attorney in the District of Columbia, he is a member of the bar in Missouri. And so I believe there has been at least one ethics complaint filed against him for a conflict of interest..."

2. Consequences of Not Paying Taxes
   Joyce Vance warns against withholding tax payments, emphasizing legal obligations and potential repercussions.

   Notable Quote:

   Joyce Vance [67:59]: "If you do not pay your taxes on time, Uncle Sam can and will come after you."

3. Congress Members Suing the President
   Kimberly Atkins Stohr explains that while Congress cannot sue the President directly, they can utilize impeachment and legislative actions to check presidential overreach.

   Notable Quote:

   Kimberly Atkins Stohr [69:00]: "...if Donald Trump does something that he thinks is out of bounds, they can also pass legislation making it really clear that what he did is out of bounds."

10. Conclusion

In wrapping up, the hosts reiterate the critical nature of upholding the rule of law and maintaining checks and balances within the government. They stress the importance of public awareness and engagement in preserving democratic institutions and civil rights.

Key Takeaways:

• The Supreme Court's recent rulings offer limited checks on executive overreach, particularly in immigration and voting rights cases.
• Attorney General Pamela Bondi's dismissals signal potential erosions of established civil protections.
• The integrity of the Department of Justice is under scrutiny following retaliatory actions against journalists and former aides.
• Upholding due process and the First Amendment remains paramount amidst governmental challenges.

Notable Quotes:

• Joyce Vance [12:00]: "The Trump government...gets spirited away to a foreign prison. And it's appalling."
• Barb McQuaid [09:00]: "Have you guys ever...accidentally deported somebody?"
• Kimberly Atkins Stohr [36:40]: "Executive orders can only be used in very limited ways."

For those interested in the detailed legal discussions and the implications of these Supreme Court decisions, Episode 231 of #SistersInLaw offers an insightful and comprehensive analysis. Whether you're a legal professional, a political enthusiast, or a concerned citizen, this episode provides valuable perspectives on the evolving landscape of American politics and law.